Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Barmby Rover on March 09, 2021, 02:49:46 pm
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This headline surprised me a bit, are Rovers a "big club" now? Maybe we have advanced a bit. Maybe TLOD is now just our construct! https://www.crewealex.net/news/2021/march/another-big-club-arriving-in-doncaster/
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If you accept that the Sunderland and Ipswiches, Pompey, too, are just on holiday at this level, as were Leeds, Wednesday, United and others with a top level pedigree to look back on, then among the perennial inhabitants of this parish we are a big club, but specifically at this level.
We have a superb stadium, generate decent income streams and attract some top class loanees. We are easily capable of attracting higher than average attendances providing you rule out the aforementioned refugees.
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This headline surprised me a bit, are Rovers a "big club" now? Maybe we have advanced a bit. Maybe TLOD is now just our construct! https://www.crewealex.net/news/2021/march/another-big-club-arriving-in-doncaster/
Behind Sunderland, Charlton, Portsmouth and Ipswich we are as big or bigger than anyone else in our League.
Wigan have had a spell in the Premier League recently but please do not tell me they are a bigger club than us as they were batting well above their station when they achieved that. It was only Whelans millions that got them there. They are now in a mess.
Blackpool were a biggish club and have flirted with the top league recently but you have to go back to the fifties and sixties to call them a big club. I would regard us as an equal to them now definitely.
So yes if you look at the history of clubs in the last 15/ 20 years and ave attendances then in this league we are a biggish club.
We have not been TLOD since we left the Conference in all reality have we? Not imo.
I missed out Hull but they do not count as they have a viper as
Manager.
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It is certainly a different perspective from Crewe's point of view from 2002-03, when we were on our way to winning promotion via the Conference playoffs. In that season we went to Gresty Road in the AMC (maybe called DAF/Leyland Trophy in those days) and we lost 0-8 with a teen-aged Dean Ashton scoring a hattrick.
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Until very recently I’d not given Donny Rovers much thought for the past 30 odd years. I used to occasionally watch Donny with a Rovers supporting mate in the 80’s. You had a pretty good team then. The Snodins, Colin Douglas, Ernie Moss were playing for you at the time and I believe you were promoted this particular season as I recall? Although you were promoted and had a very good side, I seem to remember that attendances were around 3-4 thousand?
Jump forward 30 years or so and you’re now getting considerably more fans in the ‘gate’, you’ve a much, much better stadium and I’m sure, a much better team. I’d say that Donny have grown from being one of the smaller clubs in the old Div 3, to one of the bigger clubs in League 1. Back then, I’d put Donny in the same bracket as Scunny, York City, Chesterfield etc.. Now, I’d say you’re in a similar bracket as Hull, Barnsley, and Rotherham.
What does a ‘big club’ mean though? From my experience people who claim they support a bigger club generally mean that they used to be good! You could argue that Wednesdays are a bigger club than Donny, however on the pitch I think I could say with a large degree of confidence that you would give us a footballing lesson right now.
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In terms of League One we are well established and are regularly fighting for the play off places. We're similar to Peterborough, were both nowadays bigger clubs at this level. If we go up there will be 20+ teams bigger than us though.
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It's all relative isn't it? To Crewe we are perhaps a bigger club for this level, and I do think our size ranks probably as around 45-55th biggest in England, which is about right for us being a top half League One side. Chorley and FC United will have thought we were massive clubs for instance, but Championship regulars not so much.
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In terms of League One we are well established and are regularly fighting for the play off places. We're similar to Peterborough, were both nowadays bigger clubs at this level. If we go up there will be 20+ teams bigger than us though.
We consistently get better gates than Peterborough. Even when on the VERY FEW :) occasions they are above us in the league we still get better gates. Their pricing structure could be a factor but In all honesty i still think we are a bigger club than them even though McAnthony may think otherwise.
Opinions Opinions. What is the definition of a big club of course or a bigger one than someone else.
We have had this debate many times.
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I'm with you on this, Campsall. TLO Wigan were traditionally no bigger than us until they had the Whelan millions that put them in a false position in the football pyramid. For me though club size isn't simply about how high in the pyramid a team is playing but is about the size of their following. Size of the club membership effectively.
Admittedly, sustained success in terms of league position will increase the size of the following but by just how much will be determined by factors such as the size of the town they're from and how many (and how big) other clubs are in the locality... something the Rovers have always struggled to overcome.
So, TLO Sheff' Wednesday are a bigger club than us because of the size of their following mostly due to the size of the town (City) they draw their following from and because of their historical success.
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I'm with you on this, Campsall. TLO Wigan were traditionally no bigger than us until they had the Whelan millions that put them in a false position in the football pyramid. For me though club size isn't simply about how high in the pyramid a team is playing but is about the size of their following. Size of the club membership effectively.
Admittedly, sustained success in terms of league position will increase the size of the following but by just how much will be determined by factors such as the size of the town they're from and how many (and how big) other clubs are in the locality... something the Rovers have always struggled to overcome.
So, TLO Sheff' Wednesday are a bigger club than us because of the size of their following mostly due to the size of the town (City) they draw their following from and because of their historical success.
Totally agree with all that, which is why it's such a mystery to me that smaller towns than us, such as Barnsley, Burnley, and Blackburn, should have bigger, better supported clubs than us.
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None of the others had an arsonist in charge
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They have bigger support because, like the lyric from the old song "Friggin in the riggin", there's f**k all else to do.
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Burnley were a top tier 1 side in the early 60s and have been in the top league at various times since. Although a town of only 80.000 population they draw support from quite a large catchment including Skipton and Keighley areas in Yorkshire.
Blackburn have spent 95% of their time in the top 2 tiers. So hence their support.
Well Barnsley as BB said, what on earth else is there to do in Barnsley.
No offence Tyke.
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Barnsley folk don't ask for much. As long as they have enough money for chips and beer and footy, and a few bob put by for their annual weeks holiday in Donny, they're content with their lot in life.
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We suffered with zero ambition in the 80’s selling any half decent player for next to nowt Snodin brothers, Deane, Redfearn etc the assets we did sell had no sell on clauses meaning we missed out twice - we were basically bankrupt as the 90’s rolled round and we went on another selling spree Rankine, Brevett, Raven, Limber etc the latter sold to stave off a winding up order from the revenue - add to this feeling of general malaise and decline we had Belle Vue which was on its last legs in the 80’s but would ultimately limp on into the new century - then came our disastrous association with the arsonist - it wasn’t until we’d lost our league spot and JR came in we had any ambition but the damage of neglect from the previous 20 years showed as we had to establish a whole new fan base as local youngsters migrated to other clubs Wednesday - Leeds etc.
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I think I'm right in saying that back in the 60's Rovers' home attendances in the 4th division were highest in that division and higher than any club in the third division, and about half-way highest in the second division.
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Rovers are a top ten L1 side and that's probably where they belong on the balance of history.
Mixing it with the likes of Sunderland and Pompey, in particular, in trying to get in to the top six is great. Throw in a third round tie - League or FA Cup - per season and I'm sure everyone would be suitably satisfied.
Sure beats being the whipping boys of the Championship.
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Always makes me cringe the TLOD thing.
Kinda worked in the first season back in tier 2, but that's it.
Calling ourselves TLOD is almost holding us back, and doing ourselves a disservice.
we've moved on from all the "going for it" and "destination championship" nonsense.
We are one of the big clubs below championship level.
Lets recognise that!
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Always makes me cringe the TLOD thing.
Kinda worked in the first season back in tier 2, but that's it.
Calling ourselves TLOD is almost holding us back, and doing ourselves a disservice.
we've moved on from all the "going for it" and "destination championship" nonsense.
We are one of the big clubs below championship level.
Lets recognise that!
You'd hope other teams fear coming to the Keepmoat where, since the start of the 18/19 season, Rovers have lost just 10 league games out of 59.
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I also don't like the TLOD slogan. It makes us sound like we're trying to prove a point with a big chip on our shoulders.
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Don’t think we were ever the whipping boys of the Championship - we were ultra competitive under SOD & if we’d had a more experienced manager than Dickov we’d have stayed up 2014 - Dickov used to play every game to win and had he been more pragmatic like SOD who used to say every point gained in the Championship was a good point - we’d have stayed up comfortably.
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I think I'm right in saying that back in the 60's Rovers' home attendances in the 4th division were highest in that division and higher than any club in the third division, and about half-way highest in the second division.
You are right in that compared with other clubs we were relatively well supported in those days, but not by quite as much as you say, BB.
In our two title winning seasons of 1965-66 and 1968-69 we averaged about 10400 and 10200 (sources vary slightly) and these were our highest seasonal averages.
I still have have the Playfair annuals from those seasons and in 1965-66 and according to average home attendances we were the best supported club in Division 4, there were only 4 higher averages in Division 3 (Hull best with nearly 23000), and we were higher than 3 in Division 2 (Rotherham, Bury and Leyton Orient).
In 1968-69 it was nearly the same. We were second best supported team in Division 4 very closely behind Southend, there were 5 higher averages in Division 3 (Swindon best with nearly 18000) and again there were three lower averages in Division 2 (Huddersfiled, Carlisle, Bury).
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Puts tin hat on...
Comparing us Wigan
Are we not in a ‘false’ position due to the millions our owners have poured in?
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I think I'm right in saying that back in the 60's Rovers' home attendances in the 4th division were highest in that division and higher than any club in the third division, and about half-way highest in the second division.
You are right in that compared with other clubs we were relatively well supported in those days, but not by quite as much as you say, BB.
In our two title winning seasons of 1965-66 and 1968-69 we averaged about 10400 and 10200 (sources vary slightly) and these were our highest seasonal averages.
I still have have the Playfair annuals from those seasons and in 1965-66 and according to average home attendances we were the best supported club in Division 4, there were only 4 higher averages in Division 3 (Hull best with nearly 23000), and we were higher than 3 in Division 2 (Rotherham, Bury and Leyton Orient).
In 1968-69 it was nearly the same. We were second best supported team in Division 4 very closely behind Southend, there were 5 higher averages in Division 3 (Swindon best with nearly 18000) and again there were three lower averages in Division 2 (Huddersfiled, Carlisle, Bury).
Thanks for the info Dutch.
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I havent stopped to think about it lately.
To me Rovers natural position is firmly Div 4. Crumbling terraces, Satdi Santa singing 'The leagues the wrong way up! " Ken Avis reminding people not to smoke in the main stand. The main event after the black terrace humour, which was a joy to listen to, was the pie and peas which were very good.
Nowadays though, all that is actually becoming a distant memory.
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It is certainly a different perspective from Crewe's point of view from 2002-03, when we were on our way to winning promotion via the Conference playoffs. In that season we went to Gresty Road in the AMC (maybe called DAF/Leyland Trophy in those days) and we lost 0-8 with a teen-aged Dean Ashton scoring a hattrick.
Remember it well Dutch as I was there. Score should have been 10-6 really. We missed a bag full of sitters.
Crazy game it was. Like pin ball on a football pitch. Crewe took their chance and we didn’t.
8-0 made us look as if we were hammered which I suppose we were, but the score line wasn’t a reflection of the game.
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I havent stopped to think about it lately.
To me Rovers natural position is firmly Div 4. Crumbling terraces, Satdi Santa singing 'The leagues the wrong way up! " Ken Avis reminding people not to smoke in the main stand. The main event after the black terrace humour, which was a joy to listen to, was the pie and peas which were very good.
Nowadays though, all that is actually becoming a distant memory.
Great memories but
Nowadays our natural position, is top half league 1.
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I'm with you River Don. During my lifetime, Rovers have been predominantly a Division 4 team with Div 4 attendances and Div 4 players. There has been the occasional exception of course but this current stay in Division 3 needs to go on longer yet before it overhadows what went before.
Cheers
BobG
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I'm with you River Don. During my lifetime, Rovers have been predominantly a Division 4 team with Div 4 attendances and Div 4 players. There has been the occasional exception of course but this current stay in Division 3 needs to go on longer yet before it overhadows what went before.
Cheers
BobG
Of the last 18 seasons Bob we have had 5 in the Championship 12 in League 1 and 1 in league 2
Bottom tier days are a distant memory and long may it continue. The one season recent blip should never have happened.
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I agree Bob, Rovers were always Div 4 a lot of the time when I was a kid, then after the excursion to the Conference we had big ambitions. These were born out, and we have been lucky to be where we are now as an aftermath of the JR era. Short memories make us a "big club" to teams like Crewe now, pity they didn't lay down and die for us on Tuesday though!
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I wasn't talking about the last 18 seasons Campsall. The crucial words you missed are "During my lifetime"
BobG
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I wasn't talking about the last 18 seasons Campsall. The crucial words you missed are "During my lifetime"
BobG
Have you been in cryogenic storage for the past 18 years then Bob? ;)
I understand both sides of this rather futile debate. I'm under 30 (just) so on personal history alone we average out as a top half League One club. My own personal judgement on how "big" a club is in relation to others is not simply on historical status but also on current financial capability, stadium size, core fanbase, location and a few other factors of a similar nature. To me we come out around our current positional level in most of these aspects, and I don't think any player who is approached by Rovers would think of us as any less appealing than an upwardly-mobile League One side.
If we were still at Belle Vue I'd understand the justification that we are a League Two-level club but I think the Keepmoat and the many benefits that come with it have pushed us beyond that level now, regardless of our recent position.
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I agree with a lot being said on here. But I do think both others’ perceptions of us and our own perception of ourselves change over time, but the latter surely takes longer.
IMHO perceptions of someone else’s football club are often formed very early – for example I started following in 1962 and based on that timeframe still think of the two Sheffield Clubs, Leeds, Sunderland as top flight clubs, and to a slightly lesser extent Derby, Forest, Aston Villa, Coventry, and Ipswich, and all temporarily below that level at the moment. On the other hand I regard Watford, Palace, Brighton, Bournemouth, Swansea as more level 3 than level 1. I am originally from Swansea and every season Swansea spend at level 2 to me is a success based on the last 60 years, and not another season exiled from the Premiership.
I think Rovers history and associated perceptions has two sets of successive seasons each of which saw a sea change which ushered in a total new era – the double relegations of 1957-58 & 1958-59, and the double promotions of 2002-03 & 2003-04.
The 17 seasons up to 1957-58 saw Rovers in Division 2 for eleven of them, and the 6 seasons in Division 3North we finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd and 1st. I think perceptions may well have been of a level 2 club who occasionally dropped down and came back quickly. This all changed after those two relegations.
The 40 seasons from 1958-59 to 1997-98 saw us spend 30 in Level 4 and only 10 in level 3 in which we had 5 relegations and a best finish of 11th. Of our 30 seasons in level 4, apart from 4 promotions we only had 3 top 10 finishes with a best of 8th, and as I recall never once seriously threatened promotion. So perceptions would be of a middling level 4 club who had the occasional short stay in level 3 (a stay of 6 out of 7 seasons in level 1 in the 1980’s notwithstanding). This has been my perception of Rovers for a very very long time, although I have to say it is now finally beginning to change.
After the self-destruct era and relegation to the conference, if we look at our status since 2003 this is our 18th season, 5 have been in level 2, 11 at level 3 and only two at level 4, both of which have been promotion seasons. In our eleven seasons in Level 3, apart from two promotions we have made the playoffs once, are challenging this season, might have made it last season and were still in the race for playoff on the last day of 2005-06. In those 18 years we have also won our first National Cup competition, equalled our best ever runs in the FA Cup and League Cup, had more players play full international football (13) than we had in our entire history from 1879 to 2003 (10), and have sold 5 players for more than a million pounds each, and moved to a modern new stadium. To me that is a real sea change, and I now see us as a top 10 League 1 club, capable of occasional forays in level 2, but would be expecting a quick return if we have a bad season and fell to level 4.
This is a whole division higher than I thought between 1962 and 1998, and probably about half a division lower than perceptions might have been from 1934 to 1957.
These are good times, unless of course you started supporting in 2008 and think that the Championship is our natural home. ;)
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The last 18 seasons, represent less than a third of the time I have actively supported Rovers. The successes and achievements of those 18 years come nowhere near overshadowing the other 37 years I have been a supporter. So no. I have not been in cryogenic storage RoversAlias. My sense of perspective is longer, more balanced than presumably is yours.
As Dutch Uncle points out though there are achievements over the last 18 years which will forever rank at the very pinnacle of Rovers achievements so far. But so far, in the context of well over 50 years, they remain the outliers. That is the gist of my argument that there needs to be more time at Level 3 for that to be the norm across my lifetime as a supporter.
BobG
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The last 18 seasons, represent less than a third of the time I have actively supported Rovers. The successes and achievements of those 18 years come nowhere near overshadowing the other 37 years I have been a supporter. So no. I have not been in cryogenic storage RoversAlias. My sense of perspective is longer, more balanced than presumably is yours.
As Dutch Uncle points out though there are achievements over the last 18 years which will forever rank at the very pinnacle of Rovers achievements so far. But so far, in the context of well over 50 years, they remain the outliers. That is the gist of my argument that there needs to be more time at Level 3 for that to be the norm across my lifetime as a supporter.
BobG
My goodness Bob, have I finally found someone slower to change than me :lol:
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During the Div 4 era I was always of the opinion that a town the size of Doncaster really ought to be able to host a better standard of football.
With investment the club has certainly taken a step up and I hope it continues. I'd like to think the Rovers could become a club solidly on a par with the likes of Barnsley and Rotherham. League 1 with occasional adventures into the Championship. I don't think we're quite there yet.
Now I think looking at the size of Doncaster and with a fair wind Rovers could hope to take another step up and become a more established Championship side in future closer in stature to Hull but it would take continued good ownership and additional investment. It would be a long term project to continue building the fan base. Not an impossible hope. Then again these might be the good years and things could still slip back.
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Hi Dutch. I dunno tbh. But 18 years out of 55 is not a huge proportion is it? I agree thibngs are on the up. I agree we have achieved things unheard of for over 50 years. I agree we might be closing in on transforming the image of the club. But it's not yet long standing enough to be a permanent change yet in my eyes.
BobG
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Looks like we've spent the majority of our exixistance at 3rd tier and above.
I'd say we're at our natural level.
My grandad would of course say we should be in tier 2 as that's where we were when he followed rovers in the 40s and 50s.
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Just reflecting on the 1965/66 season in Div 4. The last 5 home fixtures each drew crowds in excess of 15,000 topped off by the final home game against Notts County when over 17,000 attended. That was the game where Tony Coleman punched Pickles (the ref) and we lost 3-0.
In and around the same period we drew Burnley at home in the league cup and the crowd was approaching 25,000.
Half a Century later we certainly have the potential to grow but it requires the club to me more proactive, something like a Donnybob challenge with incentives. Fill that red bank of empty seats opposite the TV cameras. They are, to me, the biggest visual impediment to growth. Even with a crowd of 10,000-plus those seats remain largely empty. Crowds draw crowds. Humans love a crush, big events, atmosphere. They don't fancy being Billy no mates on the far side. Be in no mistake, filling the East Stand is what this club needs to grow.
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The last 18 seasons, represent less than a third of the time I have actively supported Rovers. The successes and achievements of those 18 years come nowhere near overshadowing the other 37 years I have been a supporter. So no. I have not been in cryogenic storage RoversAlias. My sense of perspective is longer, more balanced than presumably is yours.
As Dutch Uncle points out though there are achievements over the last 18 years which will forever rank at the very pinnacle of Rovers achievements so far. But so far, in the context of well over 50 years, they remain the outliers. That is the gist of my argument that there needs to be more time at Level 3 for that to be the norm across my lifetime as a supporter.
BobG
I was only joking Bob, as the last 18 years are still part of your lifetime - a little under a third of it, but surely no more or less important than the other two thirds? I also acknowledged that your perspective would be different to mine due to the fact you've seen Rovers over a longer period of time, though I don't believe that makes you or anyone else more or less "right" on this debate.
As I also said before, I find the whole thing futile. How "big" we are or are not as a club matters not one jot, because it is our league position that thankfully rules our status in football. Hence why Bournemouth are currently a better club than Sunderland and Bolton, even if they aren't as "big".
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What it could really do with now, for Rovers to get a bigger following is for the fortunes of the town to take an upturn. Perhaps if the airport were really to start growing? Then again they are now under pressure to limit the growth in aviation so I don't really see it happening.
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Something in that Alias, and the higher the club gets, the more expensive and more demanding it gets following them. I have to say, I enjoyed the Conference era as much as any other.
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Something in that Alias, and the higher the club gets, the more expensive and more demanding it gets following them.
Aye, especially if you've got nippers in tow.
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I wasn't talking about the last 18 seasons Campsall. The crucial words you missed are "During my lifetime"
BobG
Yes I realise that Bob. I do not know how old you are. But assuming you are around my age 65 there will be quite a considerable no at 3rd tier. But yes more in 4th tier.
Since we were relegated from the 2nd tier in 1958 we have spent 5 seasons in the 2nd tier.
21 at 3rd tier and 32 in the 4th tier and 5 seasons in the Conference.
I think that is correct. Dutch Uncle will know exactly. I just worked it out in my head so may not be bang on.
Anyone who saw us in the 50s can add on 7 yrs in the 2nd tier.
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FWIW:
From a Gashead POV you come over as a well run club with a good stadium who seem to do consistently well (over the past 7/8 years) and when you are mentioned on our forums someone will always say why haven’t we done what you’ve done. This then provokes a discussion about our owners, our failure to get a decent ground and why are you always beating us! The discussion then goes on to how our crowds are usually higher than yours (just) and how we used to beat you consistently in the 70s/80s/90s and even the 00s. The conversation usually includes a reference about soulless new stadium bowls not generating the atmosphere that the Mem does on a matchday when we're doing well or flying high in the league. Unfortunately our memories aren’t usually that good to remember!!
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I think RD has a point, the general upturn of the town would benefit the club as more people would have the funds to enjoy leisure time at football matches. That is what needs to happen, but it is out of control of the club. The societal changes to achieve this I can't see happening in the next ten years or so, and therefore I can't see Rovers being able to sustain a level 2 club. Without the increased support we will always be punching above our weight, but what the hell, we enjoy seeing it happen!
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Just reflecting on the 1965/66 season in Div 4. The last 5 home fixtures each drew crowds in excess of 15,000 topped off by the final home game against Notts County when over 17,000 attended. That was the game where Tony Coleman punched Pickles (the ref) and we lost 3-0.
In and around the same period we drew Burnley at home in the league cup and the crowd was approaching 25,000.
Half a Century later we certainly have the potential to grow but it requires the club to me more proactive, something like a Donnybob challenge with incentives. Fill that red bank of empty seats opposite the TV cameras. They are, to me, the biggest visual impediment to growth. Even with a crowd of 10,000-plus those seats remain largely empty. Crowds draw crowds. Humans love a crush, big events, atmosphere. They don't fancy being Billy no mates on the far side. Be in no mistake, filling the East Stand is what this club needs to grow.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
The empty swathes of seats in the East does make it look pitiful on a match day.
Going back to the DonnyBob challenge that was a great idea.
Also there were incentivised matches and the club supplied a daily ticket sold total that gathered interest. People don't like to think they are missing out on something good at a lower price, just look at supermarkets and how they advertise offers at cost or minimal profit to get people through the door, or make things 1 per customer to make you feel you've got something special when in essence you've probably got 10 bob off a few tins of soup.
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I think RD has a point, the general upturn of the town would benefit the club as more people would have the funds to enjoy leisure time at football matches. That is what needs to happen, but it is out of control of the club. The societal changes to achieve this I can't see happening in the next ten years or so, and therefore I can't see Rovers being able to sustain a level 2 club. Without the increased support we will always be punching above our weight, but what the hell, we enjoy seeing it happen!
I think this is a massive point. The town is growing and the club does great with young fans. But (and I've said this before), youngsters don't often stay in Doncaster. A good majority of the guys I used to go to games with as a teenager live well out of the area these days, looking for jobs, opportunity etc. Particularly happens at and after university, apprenticeships etc and I did the same myself. At 33 I'm just about to start my first full time job in Doncaster (discounting the last year working from home), though I did move back to the town 6 years ago now. Of my friends that stayed, many of those who do live in and around Doncaster also don't work here either, some never would but some don't have that opportunity.
It's about how as a town we keep these young people here which in turn grows everything else. That vision to me still doesn't exist, but we're getting in to politics there and this about our football club. No doubt the two are interlinked though, how can you grow the club when so many youngsters do leave the town?
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Back in the 60s Luton used to attract workers from all over the country for the Vauxhall factory there. I know one or two from Donny that went down.
They used to play midweek home games on a Thursday which was pay day for the car workers and always got good gates. I think that pits and factories were great places for fans to discuss the Rovers keeping the interest going. I remember one old lad saying that if you didn't go to a match on a Saturday you had little to talk about on a Monday as all those that did go were talking about it. There was also far less to do on a Saturday in those days. I think that the buzz of expectation before a match and then meeting up with mates some of whom you only see at a match is great. Once that bond with the club is broken it takes some getting back.
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FWIW:
From a Gashead POV you come over as a well run club with a good stadium who seem to do consistently well (over the past 7/8 years) and when you are mentioned on our forums someone will always say why haven’t we done what you’ve done. This then provokes a discussion about our owners, our failure to get a decent ground and why are you always beating us! The discussion then goes on to how our crowds are usually higher than yours (just) and how we used to beat you consistently in the 70s/80s/90s and even the 00s. The conversation usually includes a reference about soulless new stadium bowls not generating the atmosphere that the Mem does on a matchday when we're doing well or flying high in the league. Unfortunately our memories aren’t usually that good to remember!!
Welcome back Gashead - always good to see you on here, and good to read others' perspectives.
The wall of sound greeting your equaliser at the Millennium will live with me til I die.
Good luck for the rest of this season :thumbsup:
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The wall of sound greeting your equaliser at the Millennium will live with me til I die.
Me too! One of the few times I've been at a match and the whole place seemed against us and I couldn't imagine us coming back. Apart from Leeds at Wembley I'm pretty sure that was the biggest opposition crowd I've seen in the flesh, and certainly the most intimidating reaction to a goal (of course Leeds didn't get a goal!)
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The wall of sound greeting your equaliser at the Millennium will live with me til I die.
Me too! One of the few times I've been at a match and the whole place seemed against us and I couldn't imagine us coming back. Apart from Leeds at Wembley I'm pretty sure that was the biggest opposition crowd I've seen in the flesh, and certainly the most intimidating reaction to a goal (of course Leeds didn't get a goal!)
I got the impression walking round Cardiff that day that the majority of their support were day trippers.
From my position behind the goal, I wouldnt have described it as a wall of noise.
I mostly heard the moans from our fans :lol:.
Mind you I was completely bladdered so could be mistaken!
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Yes, that day at the Millenium, as on our days at Wembley much of our crowds are “day trippers” clearly. If they weren’t we’d have that number always and we don’t! We took nearly 40,000 to the Conference play offs. And our crowds are usually ranging from 6500-10500 depending on how well we are doing so clearly they don’t all come out as regulars. Is that what we lower league clubs call “potential”?
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At Cardiff and Wembley there were a number of 'day tripoers' with me...
Except they weren't really daytrippers. They were lads from Doncaster who had moved away. Some go to the occasional away game, some used to go to the Rovers back when they still lived in Doncaster. So going to see the Rovers in a big occasion was important to them, even though they were no longer regulars.
It's back to the this point about transient populations and the challenge community football clubs like Rovers face in holding onto that support.
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As a town I'm not sure why were scared to build upwards? That's the only way we'll grow without ruining wildlife. We need to attract more companies to our town if we're ever going to grow to city status.
There's 300,000+ people in Doncaster, so we should be able to get more than what we get through the gates. I work in Doncaster and there isn't many Rovers fans at work, there's more Liverpool fans than anything, then Man Utd and Leeds.
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I can't understand folk that latch onto a successful team just so that after a match they can repeat the pundit's narrative and tell you how good their team is. I worked with quite a few over the years and for the odd ones that attended some games there were many solely watching on TV.
The game would die if everybody did the same.