Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Dare to dream! on May 12, 2021, 09:10:50 pm
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https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/how-the-story-behind-doncaster-rovers-collapse-from-promotion-chasers-to-mid-table-mediocrity-3234035
Provides some interesting insights as to what was happening behind the scenes following Moore's departure
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Very good article some of the things happening behind the scenes I guess most of us could guess at but didn’t want to believe were there.
Wonder if some players will be more willing to leave or cancel their contract if they think they a better than they are hopefully the few that remain will show commitment to drfc and the new manager
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Interesting that Hoden has written “Rarely had they (Rovers) blown teams away or thoroughly dominated games”.
It makes you wonder what some posters had seen that most other supporters (and Hoden apparently) hadn’t.
Selective memory perhaps.
The article is a very good insight into what was going on during our collapse.
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I noticed this comment too Hound:
"...should Moore depart - as they expected he eventually would given his standing and reputation in the game, plus the work of his eager representatives."
Some very telling observations in there aren't there?
BobG
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That is a very insightful article about the whole mess. And frankly, it seems as though Liam is largely laying the blame at the feet of Darren Moore, if I'm reading it all right.
Butler naive, the ownership perhaps too ready to let the manager do as he pleases (with both Moore and Butler) but Moore responsible for building a weak/inexperienced squad and for leaving us in the lurch.
The line about Moore's "eager representatives" speaks volumes in my opinion.
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The club philosophy of heavily relying on loan players doesn’t help either, as many of us have said.
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Its a good insight into how many poor decisions DM made. Loved to bang home about how busy the fixture list was and we need to manage the players and look after them in interviews yet brought in young lads (Smith, Richards, JJ, Robertson) who had only played a hat full of games between em, guys coming back from injury who were injury prone prior to signing the 1st time (Sims) a guy who couldnt get a kick for Barnsley (Simoes) 1 who hadnt featured much at all for Charlton (Bogle) and a guy who didnt have a club for how long was it? (Bostock). After reading that you can dress it up as much as you like but that is absolutely p!ss poor recruitment across the whole season knowing full well you are going to play Saturday/ Tuesday most weeks. Did the guy just use the club to give youths of other clubs game time or did he actually want to achieve something because im baffled with what ive read there. You look at a footballer and a young lad and just assume they should be able to put up with the demands of the fixture list but clearly wasnt the case.
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I noticed this comment too Hound:
"...should Moore depart - as they expected he eventually would given his standing and reputation in the game, plus the work of his eager representatives."
Some very telling observations in there aren't there?
BobG
Indeed Bob.
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
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Its a good insight into how many poor decisions DM made. Loved to bang home about how busy the fixture list was and we need to manage the players and look after them in interviews yet brought in young lads (Smith, Richards, JJ, Robertson) who had only played a hat full of games between em, guys coming back from injury who were injury prone prior to signing the 1st time (Sims) a guy who couldnt get a kick for Barnsley (Simoes) 1 who hadnt featured much at all for Charlton (Bogle) and a guy who didnt have a club for how long was it? (Bostock). After reading that you can dress it up as much as you like but that is absolutely p!ss poor recruitment across the whole season knowing full well you are going to play Saturday/ Tuesday most weeks. Did the guy just use the club to give youths of other clubs game time or did he actually want to achieve something because im baffled with what ive read there. You look at a footballer and a young lad and just assume they should be able to put up with the demands of the fixture list but clearly wasnt the case.
I think it’s very clear now Moore didn’t give a shit about Doncaster Rovers, only enhancing his own reputation of developing young players.
It will be very interesting to see his Wednesday signings.
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Its a good insight into how many poor decisions DM made. Loved to bang home about how busy the fixture list was and we need to manage the players and look after them in interviews yet brought in young lads (Smith, Richards, JJ, Robertson) who had only played a hat full of games between em, guys coming back from injury who were injury prone prior to signing the 1st time (Sims) a guy who couldnt get a kick for Barnsley (Simoes) 1 who hadnt featured much at all for Charlton (Bogle) and a guy who didnt have a club for how long was it? (Bostock). After reading that you can dress it up as much as you like but that is absolutely p!ss poor recruitment across the whole season knowing full well you are going to play Saturday/ Tuesday most weeks. Did the guy just use the club to give youths of other clubs game time or did he actually want to achieve something because im baffled with what ive read there. You look at a footballer and a young lad and just assume they should be able to put up with the demands of the fixture list but clearly wasnt the case.
Taylor Richards being a classic case in point Stocks.
He played more than three times as much in our season as he had ever done in a season before.
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Well when Moore left a lot of us were saying he was far from an honourable man, that articles proves it beyond doubt, all that bullshit about buying into Club Doncaster!
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I wondered that too. A loaded comment but unclear which way.
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Is that point even relevant?
Moore had a relaxed culture which clearly worked to some degree.
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I wondered about that too. It's either over zealous timekeeping or slackness. My sense is with DM it's the latter, but it would be good to have this clarified.
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If you read the article, I think the timekeeping is slackness rather than overzealous.
Moore certainly seemed to cause more problems that he solved.
Turns out he was a grade A kitson.
Anyway, f**k him.
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I wonder if anyone has any insight around the accusation that some players were more "focussed on outside activties". That might indicate some of those who might not be offered a new contract....!
BobG
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When he left I heard stories from within the club regarding his timekeeping,
For example he arranged a team meeting for 8am and then didn’t turn up until 9.30am.
Also that the training was very repetitive and boring,
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Sounds like he'll go down a storm at the Wendies then :):):)
BobG
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Is that point even relevant?
Moore had a relaxed culture which clearly worked to some degree.
Yes, if your manager doesn't care if you turn up late - or indeed turns up late himself - then it is relevant. It's relevant to all industries. It's shite for morale if some people can do as they like.
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Lead by example.
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Interesting that Hoden has written “Rarely had they (Rovers) blown teams away or thoroughly dominated games”.
It makes you wonder what some posters had seen that most other supporters (and Hoden apparently) hadn’t.
Selective memory perhaps.
The article is a very good insight into what was going on during our collapse.
Dead right, mate. I got poo-pooed on here by some posters for suggesting that Rovers had overachieved in the first half of the season, and had been hanging on in some games.
It seems Hoden thought the same.
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Interesting that Hoden has written “Rarely had they (Rovers) blown teams away or thoroughly dominated games”.
It makes you wonder what some posters had seen that most other supporters (and Hoden apparently) hadn’t.
Selective memory perhaps.
The article is a very good insight into what was going on during our collapse.
Dead right, mate. I got poo-pooed on here by some posters for suggesting that Rovers had overachieved in the first half of the season, and had been hanging on in some games.
It seems Hoden thought the same.
I agree, in hindsight. Although at the time I put it down to is grinding out a result when not playong well, particularly because there had been tomes when we won well, e.g. Ipswich at home, Charlton away...
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I wonder if anyone has any insight around the accusation that some players were more "focussed on outside activties". That might indicate some of those who might not be offered a new contract....!
BobG
Youtube channels?
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I’ve never mentioned this before as I guess I was swept along with the whole DM can do no wrong.
Went to the open day with my young un pre covid - part of it was to meet the manager. There was a group of eager young kids waiting to meet the manager with Kelly, and they waited and waited only to be eventually told he was too busy, it did smack of he couldn’t be bothered but gave him the benefit.
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Other than the specifics about time keeping we all knew this already I think or at least we’d had a good idea what the issues were. How many threads on too many loan players and players just been Moores mates have we had. Not to mention threads debating how good we actually were in the 1st half of the season.
Shows that fans, when largely in agreement, know what they are talking about!
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Maybe the reason DM brought in youngsters was because he genuinely thought that was the best use of the available budget ?
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I suppose if TR didn't play a full 90 minutes he wouldn't have gotten overworked, just sayin'
''Why Taylor Richards rarely plays 90 minutes for Doncaster Rovers
He has developed into one of the most influential players at Doncaster Rovers this season but Taylor Richards rarely remains on the pitch until the final whistle''
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/why-taylor-richards-rarely-plays-90-minutes-doncaster-rovers-3135887
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Maybe the reason DM brought in youngsters was because he genuinely thought that was the best use of the available budget ?
It was the reason. It turned out to be a bad decision over the course of the season. That’s what managers live and die by. Hopefully the next one has better instincts
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I’ve never mentioned this before as I guess I was swept along with the whole DM can do no wrong.
Went to the open day with my young un pre covid - part of it was to meet the manager. There was a group of eager young kids waiting to meet the manager with Kelly, and they waited and waited only to be eventually told he was too busy, it did smack of he couldn’t be bothered but gave him the benefit.
See I have a slightly different story, my late grandad who passed away, Chaz walker, we held his funeral wake at the keepmoat, surprisingly Moore turned up to offer his condolences, a fitting way as my grandad I believe had the task of offering Moore his first ever MOTM award. He was willing to spend all the time he could to talk to the family.
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Maybe the reason DM brought in youngsters was because he genuinely thought that was the best use of the available budget ?
It was the reason. It turned out to be a bad decision over the course of the season. That’s what managers live and die by. Hopefully the next one has better instincts
Not quite over the course of the season, if at all the last chunk.
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23 weeks in the top six is not down to luck or over achieving by any measure, yes the ending wasn't pretty but we lost a manager.
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The mans gone, I think a good number on here had this individuals number from the get go, All the nonsense about buying into Club Doncaster and his faux pious nature, he took plenty in and I believe they all know it.
As in any industry football is a dog eat dog situation and this individual miked us for all our worth, I’m just happy his true nature manifested itself in the manner it did for all to see, including them poor sh*ts in S6.
A great many fans of his previous clubs warned us about his failing grasp on their clubs, he just excelled with us in this department.
You could say it will be interesting to see how it all pans out for him, but it really is not, f**k him, we move onto the next one, let’s hope he’s more honourable and respectful than this joker.
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You could see in his interviews with the media he was lying, his wry smile was a massive give away
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eyes too close together huh?
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Interesting that Hoden has written %u201CRarely had they (Rovers) blown teams away or thoroughly dominated games%u201D.
It makes you wonder what some posters had seen that most other supporters (and Hoden apparently) hadn%u2019t.
Selective memory perhaps.
The article is a very good insight into what was going on during our collapse.
Dead right, mate. I got poo-pooed on here by some posters for suggesting that Rovers had overachieved in the first half of the season, and had been hanging on in some games.
It seems Hoden thought the same.
We did totally outplay Charlton A, Bristol Rovers H and Ipswich H
There were other games where we were pretty dominant also.
The summing up by Hoden was very insightful though and is a very much in the main the way i see it also.
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
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He was the manager SM, will have known about the situation as it arose and should have stamped it out immediately, that was his job, it looks like he shat the bed and buggered off and wasn't up to the job to me.
We are well rid.
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He was the manager SM, will have known about the situation as it arose and should have stamped it out immediately, that was his job, it looks like he shat the bed and buggered off and wasn't up to the job to me.
We are well rid.
Selby, I'm reading the time keeping issue mainly being with Moore, not the players. I could be wrong of course.
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So if true he is a liar cheat and a scoundrel lying to players he was signing, cheating us fans of our premonition we deserved, and scoundrel letting it all get to the players and causing fights in the changing room. Oh and anything else you can think of. I for one hope we never see his face in our club again other than with the opposition
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Interesting that Hoden has written “Rarely had they (Rovers) blown teams away or thoroughly dominated games”.
It makes you wonder what some posters had seen that most other supporters (and Hoden apparently) hadn’t.
Selective memory perhaps.
The article is a very good insight into what was going on during our collapse.
Dead right, mate. I got poo-pooed on here by some posters for suggesting that Rovers had overachieved in the first half of the season, and had been hanging on in some games.
It seems Hoden thought the same.
We did totally outplay Charlton A, Bristol Rovers H and Ipswich H
There were other games where we were pretty dominant also.
The summing up by Hoden was very insightful though and is a very much in the main the way i see it also.
Totally agree. The opinion that we were in such a strong position earlier in the season through nothing more than luck is quite wrong. We were playing very well, teams were nervous about facing us and the players were playing with confidence, effort and determination. However something occurred during February time which totally threw that on its head. I’m sure that Hoden is telling us what happened in his article, but I’ve always been shit at reading in between the lines!
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
Take away the fact he left, did the recruitment process fail in getting the right man? I never thought he was the right man but it was a situation where it was difficult not to appoint him, if that makes sense.
He left WBA a side that although they were in an ok league position they were underperforming and I could tell from his interviews he was a blagger. There was never any depth to them.
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Interesting that Hoden has written “Rarely had they (Rovers) blown teams away or thoroughly dominated games”.
It makes you wonder what some posters had seen that most other supporters (and Hoden apparently) hadn’t.
Selective memory perhaps.
The article is a very good insight into what was going on during our collapse.
Dead right, mate. I got poo-pooed on here by some posters for suggesting that Rovers had overachieved in the first half of the season, and had been hanging on in some games.
It seems Hoden thought the same.
We did totally outplay Charlton A, Bristol Rovers H and Ipswich H
There were other games where we were pretty dominant also.
The summing up by Hoden was very insightful though and is a very much in the main the way i see it also.
Totally agree. The opinion that we were in such a strong position earlier in the season through nothing more than luck is quite wrong. We were playing very well, teams were nervous about facing us and the players were playing with confidence, effort and determination. However something occurred during February time which totally threw that on its head. I’m sure that Hoden is telling us what happened in his article, but I’ve always been shit at reading in between the lines!
My understanding is this -
The bulk of the squad was made up of youthful players who's legs couldn't cope with a hectic season. This led to tiredness and dips in form, which was interpreted by some established players as Moore's men losing interest. This split the dressing room and by the time it was resolved confidence was shot and the play offs were long gone.
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I always had the impression from listening to his interviews that perhaps he is not the brightest tool in the box. Maybe he is not such a bad egg at all, just a bit dumb.
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
Take away the fact he left, did the recruitment process fail in getting the right man? I never thought he was the right man but it was a situation where it was difficult not to appoint him, if that makes sense.
He left WBA a side that although they were in an ok league position they were underperforming and I could tell from his interviews he was a blagger. There was never any depth to them.
I’d agree with this, I genuinely can’t see how he would have impressed with a job interview given how he came across in press interviews. As you say though, he was a big name and probably difficult to see past that. I’d have thought things like discipline would be covered in the interview as well but possibly not or he blagged his way around it. I wonder if he was ever brought to task on things like timekeeping - you’d hope so.
I remember not long after he signed my dad had a chat with Andrew Watson who was pulling his hair out (not literally ;)) as the board had players lined up and Moore was dithering and the one holding up actually getting signings in, so I can totally believe he was too laid back.
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In terms of being bright, I don't think he ranks very highly in terms of that of a football manager. Bearing in mind football managers, in general, aren't exceptionally bright in terms of comparison with the national average of brightness. He is a typical example of someone who has the need to overuse a phrase in almost every sentence in order to fill in the gaps where he has nothing to say in terms of the subject he's talking about.
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
Take away the fact he left, did the recruitment process fail in getting the right man? I never thought he was the right man but it was a situation where it was difficult not to appoint him, if that makes sense.
He left WBA a side that although they were in an ok league position they were underperforming and I could tell from his interviews he was a blagger. There was never any depth to them.
I’d agree with this, I genuinely can’t see how he would have impressed with a job interview given how he came across in press interviews. As you say though, he was a big name and probably difficult to see past that. I’d have thought things like discipline would be covered in the interview as well but possibly not or he blagged his way around it. I wonder if he was ever brought to task on things like timekeeping - you’d hope so.
I remember not long after he signed my dad had a chat with Andrew Watson who was pulling his hair out (not literally ;)) as the board had players lined up and Moore was dithering and the one holding up actually getting signings in, so I can totally believe he was too laid back.
How many times were we pulling our hair out waiting for a signing that never happened, it was put down to DM knowing exactly who he wanted hmmmmm
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Haha he definitely liked the phrase "in terms of"
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Great insight from LH
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Haha he definitely liked the phrase "in terms of"
Crying over Spilt milk
Getting them over the line
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
Take away the fact he left, did the recruitment process fail in getting the right man? I never thought he was the right man but it was a situation where it was difficult not to appoint him, if that makes sense.
He left WBA a side that although they were in an ok league position they were underperforming and I could tell from his interviews he was a blagger. There was never any depth to them.
I’d agree with this, I genuinely can’t see how he would have impressed with a job interview given how he came across in press interviews. As you say though, he was a big name and probably difficult to see past that. I’d have thought things like discipline would be covered in the interview as well but possibly not or he blagged his way around it. I wonder if he was ever brought to task on things like timekeeping - you’d hope so.
I remember not long after he signed my dad had a chat with Andrew Watson who was pulling his hair out (not literally ;)) as the board had players lined up and Moore was dithering and the one holding up actually getting signings in, so I can totally believe he was too laid back.
How many times were we pulling our hair out waiting for a signing that never happened, it was put down to DM knowing exactly who he wanted hmmmmm
The easy bit is identifying them though......
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Hope the new manager has a clear out as trying to get the best out of some of the rubbish we still have will be an enormous task and could frustrate a good start to next season. The next couple of months will be very interesting.
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Thank you SM.
I did spot the reference to 'too laid back' at the time so yes: a conclusion could be drawn. But it would have been too thin to base an appreciation on just that. One to keep for another day. I also recall your reference to one or two troublesome player or players (can't remember whether it was just one) who wouldn't be here much longer. That clearly showed there was a very unhappy dressing room - and manager. It doesn't take much to work out quite a bit from that.
So thanks again Martin. I think you go above and beyond in keeping us abreast of what's going on.
Cheers
BobG
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When he left us and joined Wednesday he turned up at the training ground on his first morning and they wouldn't let him in..Nobody had told them he was the new manager lol
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
Take away the fact he left, did the recruitment process fail in getting the right man? I never thought he was the right man but it was a situation where it was difficult not to appoint him, if that makes sense.
He left WBA a side that although they were in an ok league position they were underperforming and I could tell from his interviews he was a blagger. There was never any depth to them.
It's a good question, but knowing how he really came across in the interviews I would find it difficult to answer that one. What I do know is that the board were impressed with him, and at the time i think the phrase 'ticked all the boxes' was used, but I may be mistaken. Certainly it was a case of not being able to look beyond him once he'd applied, as you rightly point out.
In fact he started really well with the club. Did all the right things, looked to have everything under control, but bit by bit that mask slipped.
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Has no-one mentioned losing our skipper and most influential midfield player in all of this.
Massive loss and inadequately replaced.
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When you read the article and this thread it was probably a blessing that SW took him off our hands and paid us compensation
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Has no-one mentioned losing our skipper and most influential midfield player in all of this.
Massive loss and inadequately replaced.
This is covered in the article, and of course was a factor. It was Moore who decided a wholly unfit, more laid-back Bostock was the solution for Whiteman's role.
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The rumour over this way is that DM was brought in to deliver promotion from League 1 next season. Most of us knew that survival in the Championship wasn’t realistic, and planning for League 1 began at Christmas. In all truth, the current squad is probably going to struggle in league 1 and big changes are needed. It’s impossible to emphasise just how really bad we are. From what you guys are saying DM probably isn’t the right man to change things here?
I still believe, as do most Wednesday fans, that he’s made a huge mistake leaving Donny to come here.
All the best for next season
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Hi Stocksbridge!
We gotta couple of brilliant players you can have if you like. Darren Moore favorites too so they'll jump at the chance of reuniting with him :):)
Cheers Stocksbridge. I hope the lead weight at the top of SWFC falls off a cliff soon.
BobG
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There were two other management figures involved in this, the CEO and the Head of Recruitment.
Hoden does not feature their parts or influence, but Baldwin could have intervened and surely the much praised (on here) recruitment expert are not mentioned.
Are they absolved?
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There were two other management figures involved in this, the CEO and the Head of Recruitment.
Hoden does not feature their parts or influence, but Baldwin could have intervened and surely the much praised (on here) recruitment expert are not mentioned.
Are they absolved?
How do you know that the CEO didn't intervene?
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What's lying beneath that comment about issues with time keeping?? Is it Moore not turning up on time? Or him letting players waltz in when they felt like it? Or something else?
BobG
I did try and hint at certain issues with DM during the season. In one particular instance I described him as 'too laid back' which was an understatement, but one I hoped people would grasp.
Take away the fact he left, did the recruitment process fail in getting the right man? I never thought he was the right man but it was a situation where it was difficult not to appoint him, if that makes sense.
He left WBA a side that although they were in an ok league position they were underperforming and I could tell from his interviews he was a blagger. There was never any depth to them.
It's a good question, but knowing how he really came across in the interviews I would find it difficult to answer that one. What I do know is that the board were impressed with him, and at the time i think the phrase 'ticked all the boxes' was used, but I may be mistaken. Certainly it was a case of not being able to look beyond him once he'd applied, as you rightly point out.
In fact he started really well with the club. Did all the right things, looked to have everything under control, but bit by bit that mask slipped.
I guess it's quite hard to add an "unpoachable" box to the board's list
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I only know what Hoden has written. I assume that he tells us the whole story, but perhaps not.
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I guess it's quite hard to add an "unpoachable" box to the board's list
mis-read that - thought it said unapproachable....... :huh:
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I guess it's quite hard to add an "unpoachable" box to the board's list
mis-read that - thought it said unapproachable....... :huh:
Maybe unapproachable by other clubs!
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I still think DM is more of a good coach however, as time had elapsed, some of the discipline required to be a manager were perhaps lacking. It's a bit different from WBA where he was surrounded by plenty of support staff to then becoming the Head honcho where you have to be prepared to be chief Cook and bottlewasher at times.
It was my only concern when he was appointed but I thought he could adapt, and relish the role and be a well respected leader
He had me fooled but I would use some of the extreme words preached on here.
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23 weeks in the top six is not down to luck or over achieving by any measure, yes the ending wasn't pretty but we lost a manager.
and now thank goodness for that
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One of the problems was he Moor brought players in who wanted to play for him then he left and they never forgave him so I can’t see them wanting to go play for him at the Wendy’s. I can’t see anyone that was crying down AB coming on here and wanting apologies to Andy for it as he must have been very uncomfortable with it. And Campsall you said how is there unrest in the club how do we know this abs it was rubbish talk so now what do you think
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In terms of being bright, I don't think he ranks very highly in terms of that of a football manager. Bearing in mind football managers, in general, aren't exceptionally bright in terms of comparison with the national average of brightness. He is a typical example of someone who has the need to overuse a phrase in almost every sentence in order to fill in the gaps where he has nothing to say in terms of the subject he's talking about.
Absolutely. He had a tendency to use unnecessarily big words as well to try and make himself sound more intelligent and often he'd use them in the wrong context.
He did an interview with talksport a while ago around the time of the Bolton and Bury fiasco and I cringed for the bloke.
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Quote from: Alan Southstand on Today at 12:56:56 pm
Has no-one mentioned losing our skipper and most influential midfield player in all of this.
Massive loss and inadequately replaced.
This is covered in the article, and of course was a factor. It was Moore who decided a wholly unfit, more laid-back Bostock was the solution for Whiteman's role.
A bit of ‘outside the box’ thinking needed?
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I think that maybe he is held in a falsely elevated status in the game due to his ethnicity
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he does come across as a nice bloke as well don't forget. And we do have a collective agenda regarding him so that will be colouring our thinking somewhat. Reality is usually somewhere between the two extremes so, without any knowledge at all, I suspect he is quite a nice bloke and a decent coach but he is not the paragon we made him out to be a few months ago. Simples! Lol
BobG
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So did Fred West, Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savill, and the Krays
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One of the problems was he Moor brought players in who wanted to play for him then he left and they never forgave him so I can’t see them wanting to go play for him at the Wendy’s. I can’t see anyone that was crying down AB coming on here and wanting apologies to Andy for it as he must have been very uncomfortable with it. And Campsall you said how is there unrest in the club how do we know this abs it was rubbish talk so now what do you think
Dave when did I say that? ;)
The opposite I think. I said a while ago there may be some unrest as it was plainly obvious all was not well somewhere.
Think you may have got wrong person Dave. No problem.
Hope your doing well by the way.
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he does come across as a nice bloke as well don't forget. And we do have a collective agenda regarding him so that will be colouring our thinking somewhat. Reality is usually somewhere between the two extremes so, without any knowledge at all, I suspect he is quite a nice bloke and a decent coach but he is not the paragon we made him out to be a few months ago. Simples! Lol
BobG
I think that is probably right BobG imo.
That’s how i would sum him up.
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So did Fred West, Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savill, and the Krays
Your choice of simile, Vicar, is vulgar, unneccesary and insulting to a guy we were all lauding less than 6 months ago.
BobG
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Seconded BG, there's no need for hate we have a great club.
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So did Fred West, Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savill, and the Krays
Darren Moore left one football club for another. Some perspective, perhaps?
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I think that all of the anger is because of the manner in which he left the club rather than him just leaving for better prospects.
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So did Fred West, Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savill, and the Krays
Your choice of simile, Vicar, is vulgar, unneccesary and insulting to a guy we were all lauding less than 6 months ago.
BobG
So did Fred West, Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savill, and the Krays
Your choice of simile, Vicar, is vulgar, unneccesary and insulting to a guy we were all lauding less than 6 months ago.
BobG
I did not mean anything with the names at all. But, I’m not a do gooder so I don’t really care or give a sod what you think and you probably won’t like this I am saying thank you. But you do seem to jump on most things I say on here so if you don’t like it don’t read it
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One of the problems was he Moor brought players in who wanted to play for him then he left and they never forgave him so I can’t see them wanting to go play for him at the Wendy’s. I can’t see anyone that was crying down AB coming on here and wanting apologies to Andy for it as he must have been very uncomfortable with it. And Campsall you said how is there unrest in the club how do we know this abs it was rubbish talk so now what do you think
Dave when did I say that? ;)
The opposite I think. I said a while ago there may be some unrest as it was plainly obvious all was not well somewhere.
Think you may have got wrong person Dave. No problem.
Hope your doing well by the way.
im ok Campsall my blood count is coming down nicely now, it went from a high of 800 Odd to 87, now it’s down to 46 so coming on great thanks
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Seconded BG, there's no need for hate we have a great club.
and for your information there was no hate in it, I used them names because as the other poster said Moor seemed a nice person, as did all the people in mentioned and yes they are at the top of the tree as bad people and if people can get all them wrong they can get anyone wrong can they not. I did not once reference moor to them at all just to show how much you can get people wrong. People are far to touchy on here
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the liar, cheat and scoundrel followed by this thread, I certainly wouldn't want to be a person you did hate then.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=281107.0
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One of the problems was he Moor brought players in who wanted to play for him then he left and they never forgave him so I can’t see them wanting to go play for him at the Wendy’s. I can’t see anyone that was crying down AB coming on here and wanting apologies to Andy for it as he must have been very uncomfortable with it. And Campsall you said how is there unrest in the club how do we know this abs it was rubbish talk so now what do you think
Dave when did I say that? ;)
The opposite I think. I said a while ago there may be some unrest as it was plainly obvious all was not well somewhere.
Think you may have got wrong person Dave. No problem.
Hope your doing well by the way.
im ok Campsall my blood count is coming down nicely now, it went from a high of 800 Odd to 87, now it’s down to 46 so coming on great thanks
Brilliant news. I did read your previous post regarding that. :thumbsup:
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Ok mate I have a face to face with my oncologist on Monday so I should know more mate, I WILL let you know when I find out ok mate
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the liar, cheat and scoundrel followed by this thread, I certainly wouldn't want to be a person you did hate then.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=281107.0
just go away and leave me alone and you stay in your own little do gooder world
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the liar, cheat and scoundrel followed by this thread, I certainly wouldn't want to be a person you did hate then.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=281107.0
just go away and leave me alone and you stay in your own little do gooder world
can I ask are you in favour of Black Lives Matter at all
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Yawn, none of your business go and fight with someone who gives a shit
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the liar, cheat and scoundrel followed by this thread, I certainly wouldn't want to be a person you did hate then.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=281107.0
just go away and leave me alone and you stay in your own little do gooder world
can I ask are you in favour of Black Lives Matter at all
You realise you asked yourself, right?
Aren't most people in favour of lives of black people mattering? I'd hope all tbf.
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Yawn, none of your business go and fight with someone who gives a shit
it’s you and the other guy that started this fight by minding my business and not your own
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We are constantly being told the board do their utmost regarding prospective managers and due diligence checks with those in the business. So the board got it wrong with DM ?or he hoodwinked them? and those that stood up as character refs did the same .
He will get pelters when he returns with Wendies. And who on earth have they took on?
That article does not make good reading for DM or anyone remotely linked to him.
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I dont think we can restrict blame to just the Board. Yes. It was the Board who employed him. But there were very, very few indeed on here who voiced even minor criticisms of either his appointment or his performance until very late indeed in his tenure. If Moore hoodwinked the Board, then he hoodwinked an entire town. But personally I don't think he did. He over egged his buy in to the club values but other than that, he was always exactly what he is - a football manager. As a breed they have sod all reputation for longevity, loyalty or even honesty. Darren Moore ran true to type.
BobG
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If the next coach can keep us in the top 6 for 23 weeks, with 7 shut-outs a 3-1, two 4-1 wins and beat a championship side I think most would be reasonably happy.
If DM had stayed for a top 6 finish would there be carping about time keeping?
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If the next coach can keep us in the top 6 for 23 weeks, with 7 shut-outs a 3-1, two 4-1 wins and beat a championship side I think most would be reasonably happy.
If DM had stayed for a top 6 finish would there be carping about time keeping?
Of course not, because it would show his way had worked in the longer term. As it was, it didn’t. It divided the squad and frankly, I think we are best rid of him.
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timekeeping divided the squad? I'm not happy with the end result but I think we are looking at a huge part of this through the rear view mirror.
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Have to say that as its looking more and more like big head wellens is getting the job, I can see more and more articles like this coming out.
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I dunno about that GL, the board/management appear to favour conservative growth, for me they wouldn't deliberately pick someone the has a hint of controversy surrounding his temperament. I could be totally wrong of course.
I think they would want a manger that is inclusive and brings everyone into the tent rather than someone that may start throwing their weight around. A lot of what is in the media is conjecture by people who's job is to sell papers.
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I dont think we can restrict blame to just the Board. Yes. It was the Board who employed him. But there were very, very few indeed on here who voiced even minor criticisms of either his appointment or his performance until very late indeed in his tenure. If Moore hoodwinked the Board, then he hoodwinked an entire town. But personally I don't think he did. He over egged his buy in to the club values but other than that, he was always exactly what he is - a football manager. As a breed they have sod all reputation for longevity, loyalty or even honesty. Darren Moore ran true to type.
BobG
I don’t think there’s any blame to be apportioned really for hiring Moore, but don’t agree with your point - the entire town didn’t go through a lengthy recruitment/due diligence process and the entire town didn’t work with him on a day to day basis.
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timekeeping divided the squad? I'm not happy with the end result but I think we are looking at a huge part of this through the rear view mirror.
If the boss can’t get there on time why should other employees bother then?
How can you bollock someone for being late if you do the same regularly.
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Correct idler, the boss should lead by example.
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He wore a false persona that fooled many. Fair do’s to the guy he had obviously done his homework on the ethos of the club and Club Doncaster and we bought into it with him. Whatever happened behind the scenes ripped the heart out of the team leaving Butler an impossible task. At least he had the b*locks to give it a go, the guy still has my utmost respect
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I think the issue is ,is the more left and how the season then fell apart , if butler had got us into the playoffs nobody would not care that Moore had gone , but if he had stayed I'm sure we would have made the playoffs
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I think the issue is ,is the more left and how the season then fell apart , if butler had got us into the playoffs nobody would not care that Moore had gone , but if he had stayed I'm sure we would have made the playoffs
I doubt we'd have made the play-offs. We'd started going down the pan well before DM left.
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I think the issue is ,is the more left and how the season then fell apart , if butler had got us into the playoffs nobody would not care that Moore had gone , but if he had stayed I'm sure we would have made the playoffs
I doubt we'd have made the play-offs. We'd started going down the pan well before DM left.
We’ll never know. He may have turned form around, or the rot may have continued.
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I think the issue is ,is the more left and how the season then fell apart , if butler had got us into the playoffs nobody would not care that Moore had gone , but if he had stayed I'm sure we would have made the playoffs
I doubt we'd have made the play-offs. We'd started going down the pan well before DM left.
We’ll never know. He may have turned form around, or the rot may have continued.
I can't see how he'd have turned form around, PDX. We'd been found out, and DM had no plan B.
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I think the issue is ,is the more left and how the season then fell apart , if butler had got us into the playoffs nobody would not care that Moore had gone , but if he had stayed I'm sure we would have made the playoffs
I doubt we'd have made the play-offs. We'd started going down the pan well before DM left.
Because he had his head turned.
We will never know how the season would have panned out if he had stayed.
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Love your optimism Camps but it was there for all to see, we were on the slide well before DM left. It was clear he had no answer to how to stop it.
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Love your optimism Camps but it was there for all to see, we were on the slide well before DM left. It was clear he had no answer to how to stop it.
Was he trying to stop it though. He was already at S6 in his head.
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He was totally one dimensional. When our style of play was rumbled, he hadn’t a clue how to change it. If he had stayed, I don’t think our final league position would have been much different to the one we actually achieved.
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Camps can i ask you 2 questions
When do you think DMs head was turned
When do you think the slide began
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Well, SM said Wednesday had been sending folks to our games two months before Moore buggered off...
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Moore was asked in a press conference in late January about reported interest from Wednesday, and he somewhat side-stepped it. Between that and what has come out from Liam and Martin recently, it's clear his head was turned then and our performances dropped from early February onwards.
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i do believe the Wednesday have done us a big favour in relieving us of this individual, as a team we were well and truly rumbled well before he went, the writing was on the wall before the Lincoln escape.
If i had to watch another back line playing the ball among themselves and the keeper until the lost control again i'd have to give it up and start watching grass grow for my kicks.
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I think we would have made top 6 had Moore stayed. It's clear that his approach led to several cracks appearing in the club, but he was able to paper over them and I think that would've been enough even as legs tired late in the season. I'm of the firm belief that Moore's head was turned long before he left, and that's what led to the downturn in performances. More time on the phone with the agent and less time researching the opposition. Not that it matters now of course. The new man has free reign to build his own team and drill into them how he wants to work - I'm sure wellens is the man to do that.
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God will judge him harshly. Lol.
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time to move on and support the new manager, each question/answer raises more questions, would any manager under contract admit to being in talks with another club, if Wednesday officials were watching us then you'd think it was only Jan where we won every game and not Feb where we didn't win a game?
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I thought there was only me who was a conspiracy theorist, but it appears just about everyone on this board has the same trait!
For me, Hoden’s report doesn’t go far enough, for what it’s worth.
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So, if DM was being knobbled as early as January but did not jump ship until March that would suggest he left it just late enough not to be blamed for the Wendy's relegation but just soon enough to escape blame for our decline. How cynical is that ?
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No blame at all to the Board or the recruitment process for bringing DM here. He was an outstanding candidate with an apparent connection to the club and the town, somebody that could get the fans on side and energised after the disappointment of McCann leaving, they’d have been daft not to factor all of this into the decision. And, certainly in terms of results, it didn’t turn out to be a bad decision.
I’d agree that his interviews can come across as vacuous, and he has a wonderful tendency to overuse a phrase, it’s all part and partial really. From the off I felt he lacked a bit of substance, but it’s a harsh criticism really. He (either directly or through his assistant and staff) certainly knew how to organise a team, and that was his job. It didn’t matter how he came across pre or post match if we won.
BobG is entirely right on the middle ground, he’s neither hero nor villain but somewhere in the middle, easily forgotten now in terms of his legacy. He left to a bigger club in a higher division, and almost certainly for a larger salary. He won’t be the first or the last to do that, many of us would do the same. We’ll be fine without him.
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I’d say that’s a pretty good summary of the entire situation Jonathan. Even if you could interview Moore and everyone else who is implicated with lie-detectors on hand to help you, I doubt whether we would find answers to all the questions posed on this thread about everything that happened surrounding his time here.
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How about the notion that he's just an overrated manager, who's achieved nothing in 3 years of management other than 2 relegations?
Plus all that dreadful f*cking about at the back. I'm glad he's gone.
Good riddance.
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Bit harsh there SS but you can't argue with fact that he was the manager/ coach when both teams were relegated
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I think Moore looks like a good coach, but bad manager