Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on May 30, 2021, 01:29:19 pm

Title: New Royal Yacht
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 30, 2021, 01:29:19 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57293882

Why are we the only developed country in the world that needs to define itself to potential trading partners by floating bling?
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 30, 2021, 03:05:59 pm
We need something for our sailors to do now the Navy's shrunk some more.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: River Don on May 30, 2021, 03:48:22 pm
I'm not sure that doing things differently is necessarily a bad idea.

Having a floating palace, where you can invite potential trading partners on board to meet the Queen and of course talk business too. It's a difficult opportunity to turn down. Particularly since royalty isn't tainted by politics in the same way as presidents are.

The UK has become good at soft power, and it is this sort of thing that allows us to excercise it. Try to think of it as a national asset rather than a symbol of privelidge.

Edit: I should say I'm not a royalist but whilst ever this remains the way we go about things, then we have to try to make the most of it.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: albie on May 30, 2021, 04:22:48 pm
I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but I thought this was not a Royal Yacht, nor a defence procurement.

The idea is to smootch business investors.
Basically it is 70 years behind the curve....I don't know how they are going to show value for money from this project, or justify the running cost.

Still, better than giving NHS staff a decent pay settlement...some will think!
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: River Don on May 30, 2021, 04:47:55 pm
The idea is to schmooze business investors and I'm not sure how you can measure value for money.

I once watched a documentary about the old royal yacht and the chief of Rolls Royce was explaining what a very effective business tool it was. I imagine it may be of particular use when flogging weapons and armaments, not very virtuous but I suppose a lot of British jobs depend on it.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: albie on May 30, 2021, 05:01:31 pm
RD,

All investment proposals used to be subject to Treasury Green Book rules, and had to meet the criteria set out before consideration.

Those rules may have been amended, but the basic principle was to prevent "hail Mary" projects getting unscrutinised approval.

Johnson has form for promoting insane plans with no economic basis......remember the London Garden Bridge, or the Thames airport plan. The rules were there to act as a check on demented use of public funds.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Hounslowrover on May 30, 2021, 07:20:21 pm
Agree Albie, living in London we've seen Johnson waste tax payers money on agrandissemt policies when mayor of London.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Redandwhite on May 30, 2021, 11:43:12 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57293882

Why are we the only developed country in the world that needs to define itself to potential trading partners by floating bling?
We shouldn't think outside the box ?
Do things differently?

Personally I thing its a great idea, and a uniquely British thing .
Will be a huge asset for Britain to exert its global influence. 

Can you imagine German diplomats (who are stuck in the eu) entertaining Indian investors in some identikit drab hotel ?
Then imagine British diplomats entertaining the same investors on the royal yacht on the High seas .

I know which party I'd rather be at
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 30, 2021, 11:45:34 pm
I know which export economy I'd rather have...
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Redandwhite on May 30, 2021, 11:48:59 pm
I know which export economy I'd rather have...

Which is why we're playing to our strengths, and not playing their game .

Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 30, 2021, 11:50:15 pm
Oh dear
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 31, 2021, 12:01:06 am
Not playing their game of long-term investment in high value engineering and exporting nearly 4 times as much as us every year? Yeah, I'd much prefer us to be courting kleptocrats with a bit of bling.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Redandwhite on May 31, 2021, 12:04:31 am
Not playing their game of long-term investment in high value engineering and exporting nearly 4 times as much as us every year? Yeah, I'd much prefer us to be courting kleptocrats with a bit of bling.
Your not getting my point, and going off on a tangent for some reason , I'm not arguing that Germany has a bigger economy .

The point is that if a royal yacht gives us an edge in a competitive global market place, then its a very good thing .
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 12:06:46 am
it has to be a johnson brain fart, watching a history of Henry V111 last night and there he was jonson/henry, rather be out jousting and boozing whilst the privy counsel ran the country until he got fed up with them and had them beheaded.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 31, 2021, 12:17:17 am
R&W. I don't think you're getting my point. What we have desperately lacked for decades is a sensible economic strategy that supports long-term investment in our industries, instead of incentivising the bas**rds in the City of London who rip the guts out of companies to make a quick buck then leave them to rot. This  yacht stunt is a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It might impress a few successful foreign equivalents of Del Boy, and make a few people at home feel grand to be British, but it is not ever going to make a real difference to the structural failings of our system.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Bentley Bullet on May 31, 2021, 12:32:21 am
it has to be a johnson brain fart, watching a history of Henry V111 last night and there he was jonson/henry, rather be out jousting and boozing whilst the privy counsel ran the country until he got fed up with them and had them beheaded.

Pity they didn't have a Kangaroo court, eh Skippy?
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 12:34:24 am
bb, nothing to say = insult, wash rinse repeat .............................
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Bentley Bullet on May 31, 2021, 12:36:51 am
Don't worry about it Skippy, I shouldn't really use wit on the unarmed.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 12:37:49 am
Don't worry about it Skippy, I shouldn't really use wit on the unarmed.

let me know when you get some and I'll prepare
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Bentley Bullet on May 31, 2021, 12:45:18 am
I'll try to simplify it just for you in future.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 12:49:12 am
and you are just the person to do that no doubt
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Bentley Bullet on May 31, 2021, 01:04:01 am
Yes, Sydney, I am.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 01:05:43 am
how's the podcast coming along?
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Bentley Bullet on May 31, 2021, 01:14:41 am
Very frustrating at the moment. I keep having to break away from something of interest to talk to you
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Redandwhite on May 31, 2021, 09:56:03 am
R&W. I don't think you're getting my point. What we have desperately lacked for decades is a sensible economic strategy that supports long-term investment in our industries, instead of incentivising the bas**rds in the City of London who rip the guts out of companies to make a quick buck then leave them to rot. This  yacht stunt is a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It might impress a few successful foreign equivalents of Del Boy, and make a few people at home feel grand to be British, but it is not ever going to make a real difference to the structural failings of our system.
OK fair enough, I respect your point of view .
I agree with what you say regarding the banker arseholes .
But I still think the new royal yacht will be an asset, and think I'll be proved correct .
Thanks .
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: drfchound on May 31, 2021, 10:37:28 am
R&W. I don't think you're getting my point. What we have desperately lacked for decades is a sensible economic strategy that supports long-term investment in our industries, instead of incentivising the bas**rds in the City of London who rip the guts out of companies to make a quick buck then leave them to rot. This  yacht stunt is a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It might impress a few successful foreign equivalents of Del Boy, and make a few people at home feel grand to be British, but it is not ever going to make a real difference to the structural failings of our system.
OK fair enough, I respect your point of view .
I agree with what you say regarding the banker arseholes .
But I still think the new royal yacht will be an asset, and think I'll be proved correct .
Thanks .




R&W, I’m with you on the business about the yacht.
There are too many people wanting to rubbish anything English/British.
The government, the football team etc often get slated for not being as good as Germany, Italy, Spain or even San Marino if it fits the agenda.

However, only hindsight (as is often the case) will prove whether the last statement in your above post or the last sentence in the post by BST will turn out to be correct.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on May 31, 2021, 10:43:10 am
I actually think both points are fair. It doesn't have to be one or the other we should be able to employ both strategies.

1. Use the yacht effectively to court business and investment plus sales to foreign partners who lap that kind of stuff up. Effective and sensible.

2. Improve exports by actually making something worth exporting and taking the gamble to invest in that aswell as empowering companies to invest.  That was the one decent strategy in the budget actually so the government is starting to do it but not strongly enough.  Right now we should be looking at large tax breaks for renewable energy technology, electric vehicle production and big grants for the r&d of said things.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 31, 2021, 11:18:41 am
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: drfchound on May 31, 2021, 11:37:21 am
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.





Agreed and we won’t know for a few years, with hindsight I guess.
Speculate to accumulate.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 12:26:59 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.





Agreed and we won’t know for a few years, with hindsight I guess.
Speculate to accumulate.

yeah, we should view as a future floating garden bridge
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Redandwhite on May 31, 2021, 02:21:59 pm
R&W. I don't think you're getting my point. What we have desperately lacked for decades is a sensible economic strategy that supports long-term investment in our industries, instead of incentivising the bas**rds in the City of London who rip the guts out of companies to make a quick buck then leave them to rot. This  yacht stunt is a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It might impress a few successful foreign equivalents of Del Boy, and make a few people at home feel grand to be British, but it is not ever going to make a real difference to the structural failings of our system.
OK fair enough, I respect your point of view .
I agree with what you say regarding the banker arseholes .
But I still think the new royal yacht will be an asset, and think I'll be proved correct .
Thanks .




R&W, I’m with you on the business about the yacht.
There are too many people wanting to rubbish anything English/British.
The government, the football team etc often get slated for not being as good as Germany, Italy, Spain or even San Marino if it fits the agenda.

However, only hindsight (as is often the case) will prove whether the last statement in your above post or the last sentence in the post by BST will turn out to be correct.
100% agree hound
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Redandwhite on May 31, 2021, 02:30:06 pm
BST, the new royal yacht could loosely be classed as investing in the national infrastructure? Maybe
If of course it drums up the business I'm sure it will .

From lurking on this forum over the years, I would have been under the impression you would advocate big investment in national infrastructure/assets .
Granted we're not building the hoover dam here, but I'd not dismiss it as "a bit of bling"
First thing it does is hugely benefit British ship building, I'm sure they need something to do now the new aircraft carriers are finished!
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 31, 2021, 03:27:13 pm
From what I remember, BST has advocated national investment in fixed Capital assets, not current Capital assets.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on May 31, 2021, 07:35:52 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

Well not necessarily. I'd argue it would sell for more than it's cost even after a few years once used by many famous people, royal families etc.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Dagenham Rover on May 31, 2021, 09:12:49 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

As far as I'm aware the Royal Yacht Britannia did generate more income than cost (i could be wrong) so there no reason to suggest any different. It isn't just another mode of transport for the Royals its similar to tourists coming to London  Changing of the Guard, Handing over of the keys at the Tower, Beefeaters, West End shows, Museums  all generate more than they cost then start going down the list hotels, restaurants to burger stalls and back up to business delegates  hiring the numerous Worshipful Company Halls who then hire waitering staff, musicians, disco's Taxi's mini cabs etc etc  and that is the same for whatever port the Royal Yacht is berthed. In my previous life as a professional musician in London and the surrounds you really could see the knock on effect
   
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: drfchound on May 31, 2021, 09:14:51 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

As far as I'm aware the Royal Yacht Britannia did generate more income than cost (i could be wrong) so there no reason to suggest any different. It isn't just another mode of transport for the Royals its similar to tourists coming to London  Changing of the Guard, Handing over of the keys at the Tower, Beefeaters, West End shows, Museums  all generate more than they cost then start going down the list hotels, restaurants to burger stalls and back up to business delegates  hiring the numerous Worshipful Company Halls who then hire waitering staff, musicians, disco's Taxi's mini cabs etc etc  and that is the same for whatever port the Royal Yacht is berthed. In my previous life as a professional musician in London and the surrounds you really could see the knock on effect
   





Yeah, but what did the yacht (Romans) do for us.......
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: Dagenham Rover on May 31, 2021, 09:45:42 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

As far as I'm aware the Royal Yacht Britannia did generate more income than cost (i could be wrong) so there no reason to suggest any different. It isn't just another mode of transport for the Royals its similar to tourists coming to London  Changing of the Guard, Handing over of the keys at the Tower, Beefeaters, West End shows, Museums  all generate more than they cost then start going down the list hotels, restaurants to burger stalls and back up to business delegates  hiring the numerous Worshipful Company Halls who then hire waitering staff, musicians, disco's Taxi's mini cabs etc etc  and that is the same for whatever port the Royal Yacht is berthed. In my previous life as a professional musician in London and the surrounds you really could see the knock on effect
   





Yeah, but what did the yacht (Romans) do for us.......


They provided half the exhibits in the museums that the taxi, uber, minicab that the tourist use to go to to see who provide the guides. the overpriced cheeseburgers ...............................:) :)   Yeh I know :) :)
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: drfchound on May 31, 2021, 09:57:13 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

As far as I'm aware the Royal Yacht Britannia did generate more income than cost (i could be wrong) so there no reason to suggest any different. It isn't just another mode of transport for the Royals its similar to tourists coming to London  Changing of the Guard, Handing over of the keys at the Tower, Beefeaters, West End shows, Museums  all generate more than they cost then start going down the list hotels, restaurants to burger stalls and back up to business delegates  hiring the numerous Worshipful Company Halls who then hire waitering staff, musicians, disco's Taxi's mini cabs etc etc  and that is the same for whatever port the Royal Yacht is berthed. In my previous life as a professional musician in London and the surrounds you really could see the knock on effect
   





Yeah, but what did the yacht (Romans) do for us.......


They provided half the exhibits in the museums that the taxi, uber, minicab that the tourist use to go to to see who provide the guides. the overpriced cheeseburgers ...............................:) :)   Yeh I know :) :)





LoL.
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 31, 2021, 10:20:57 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

As far as I'm aware the Royal Yacht Britannia did generate more income than cost (i could be wrong) so there no reason to suggest any different. It isn't just another mode of transport for the Royals its similar to tourists coming to London  Changing of the Guard, Handing over of the keys at the Tower, Beefeaters, West End shows, Museums  all generate more than they cost then start going down the list hotels, restaurants to burger stalls and back up to business delegates  hiring the numerous Worshipful Company Halls who then hire waitering staff, musicians, disco's Taxi's mini cabs etc etc  and that is the same for whatever port the Royal Yacht is berthed. In my previous life as a professional musician in London and the surrounds you really could see the knock on effect
   

How does that earn us money if folk flock to see it when it is docked in Dubai, or Sydney, or Cape Town?
Title: Re: New Royal Yacht
Post by: SydneyRover on May 31, 2021, 11:06:07 pm
It's only an asset if it generates more new income than it costs to run.

Well not necessarily. I'd argue it would sell for more than it's cost even after a few years once used by many famous people, royal families etc.

If you could name any boat at all that has been resold for more than it's build cost it would support your argument pud, refits cost the earth. Boats are holes into to which money is continually shovelled.