Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on August 27, 2021, 03:52:20 pm
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Posted in the vain hope that the thread might stay on topic this time.
I've posted before on here about Sunak glibly lying about basic economics.
He's doing a similar thing here about the virus.
https://mobile.twitter.com/charlieboylert/status/1431175553411862532
Look at his face as he says "We can't control the spread of the virus". When what he means is "We have made a political choice not to control the spread of the virus."
Before anyone wades in, this has got nothing whatsoever to do with whether you agree with the policy or not. It is unambiguous denial of basic Objective Truth. And it is rife throughout the political Right these days.
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Billy, there are 650 MPs in the HOC, I wouldn’t believe a word from a single one of them
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Ldr.
And as I've said countless times, ALL politicians use spin, dissembling and partial truth. That's part of the game to put their argument in the best light.
What NO politician has done until very, very recently is to get away with openly denying matters of objective truth. Issues where the veracity of a fact is easily establishable.
This is a very recent development and it is only happening on the Right of politics. And it is extremely dangerous because if you cannot establish and agree basic facts, it is impossible to have informed debate.
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Biden claimed if America wasn't pulling out of Afghanistan he'd one have to commit thousands more American troops to the occupation.
Ignoring the fact that it was because of the withdrawal, the lack of security that allowed the extremists in the streets and the desperate crowds that made the airport a target in the first place.
I thought it was a very flimsy justification for the manner of this withdrawal.
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But that's not an issue of objective truth RD. That's a statement of policy assessment which you can support or condemn.
I'm talking about politicians deny basic, established facts. Sunak did it when he said we have to repay Govt debt. We don't. There's no argument about that. It's a fact.
He's doing it here in saying we cannot control the spread of the virus. We can. That's a matter of objective truth.
What he's doing is saying "these are the policies we choose to implement, and if I glibly lie by saying we aren't actually choosing them, they are imposed on us as issues we cannot control, I will close down debate on the issues. Especially when BBC journalists just sit there a d nod safely instead of doing their f**king job and pointing out the lies."
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Ldr.
And as I've said countless times, ALL politicians use spin, dissembling and partial truth. That's part of the game to put their argument in the best light.
What NO politician has done until very, very recently is to get away with openly denying matters of objective truth. Issues where the veracity of a fact is easily establishable.
This is a very recent development and it is only happening on the Right of politics. And it is extremely dangerous because if you cannot establish and agree basic facts, it is impossible to have informed debate.
So they are all the same then.
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Posted in the vain hope that the thread might stay on topic this time.
I've posted before on here about Sunak glibly lying about basic economics.
He's doing a similar thing here about the virus.
https://mobile.twitter.com/charlieboylert/status/1431175553411862532
Look at his face as he says "We can't control the spread of the virus". When what he means is "We have made a political choice not to control the spread of the virus."
Before anyone wades in, this has got nothing whatsoever to do with whether you agree with the policy or not. It is unambiguous denial of basic Objective Truth. And it is rife throughout the political Right these days.
When you say ‘stay on topic’, do you mean the topic of objective truth or the topic of blatantly biased attacks on the party you despise? You seem to be confusing the two very conflicting topics, which is probably why you mistakenly think the other thread went off topic before.
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And so it goes on.
The very point my previous thread on the subject was about is being doubled down on.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/dhsc-playbook-orders-trusts-to-describe-big-building-projects-as-new-hospitals/7030790.article
The Govt has said it will build 40 new hospitals. Therefore the record will show 40 new hospitals built. And senior public servants are being instructed to lie on the issue.
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And again.
Johnson has said today that he wants to cut taxes and said that when he was London mayor he cut tax by 20%.
Except he didn't.
Tax came down by 11% and that was almost entirely due to the automatic end of the surcharge for the Olympics.
This used to matter. But truth now seems to be out of the window and long gone.
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A 11.4 billion tax rise is now a cut, sounds a bit tommy cooper
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Maybe you two should just message each other
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Maybe you two should just message each other
I guess you're only here because MM has spurned you?
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And again.
Johnson has said today that he wants to cut taxes and said that when he was London mayor he cut tax by 20%.
Except he didn't.
Tax came down by 11% and that was almost entirely due to the automatic end of the surcharge for the Olympics.
This used to matter. But truth now seems to be out of the window and long gone.
What gets me is, when Diane Abbott once quoted incorrect figures in an interview (corrected very quickly) it became a meme that is joyfully repeated over and over again, years later.
When Johnson makes shit up repeatedly and never ever corrects the record....nothing.
I wonder what the difference is?
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Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid
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Most of the government ministry over the past 11 years have been worse than DA for most of the the time and have sold the country down the river.
The money lost through Austerity and brexit could have seen the UK in good shape and what's more this has been identified and should have been turned around.
Dumb shits such as grayling, williamson, shapps the list goes on and on and on ...............
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Maybe you two should just message each other
I guess you're only here because MM has spurned you?
Who?
I think you’re losing the plot
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Most of the government ministry over the past 11 years have been worse than DA for most of the the time and have sold the country down the river.
The money lost through Austerity and brexit could have seen the UK in good shape and what's more this has been identified and should have been turned around.
Dumb shits such as grayling, williamson, shapps the list goes on and on and on ...............
I have definitely come to the conclusion that if either the Labour Party or the Conservative party are the answer, we are asking the wrong bloody questions
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Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid
And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?
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Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid
And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?
Not at all, the public hate Labour more than the conservatives so it fits
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I'd say there's an lazy nastiness in people that delights in seeing someone make a stupid, but innocent slip up and then struggle under pressure, but doesn't care about someone confidently lying as a matter of policy.
I'm also sure the fact that one person is a strident (hectoring, even) black female and the other is a jolly good white chap from the English upper classes has something to do with some people's reaction, but I'm pointing no fingers.
The bigger point of course is that Johnson is part of a move away from valuing the sacrosanct nature of objective truth. It DID used to be that politicians who were caught unequivocally lying were out of the game very quickly. Now, no-one seems to care that our PM blithely lies on an almost daily basis about everything imaginable. We have a grim future if this isn't reversed. If there is no penalty for lies, there is no incentive for anyone to be truthful.
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I think you are saying that they now have the bare-faced affrontary to just tell a great big obvious lie to the camera and media , and then defy anyone to point out they are lying......
Yeah I get his, seen it a lot with all the backroom big boys club!
They do not care if they get caught in a lie, it’s probably a bit of a game ...... and as there is no opposition party .....it will continue, but as long as it doesn’t affect me I’ll let it slide.....
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Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid
And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?
They're both shit. No argument from me there.
None of the major parties are worth voting for. It needs something new and fresh. A party who speaks common non pc sense with the interests of the average man in the street at heart. We equally don't want a party which panders to the rich and big business or one which cares more for lunatic fringe groups, scroungers and asylum seekers than our own people.
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Maybe you two should just message each other
That’s not how you spell massage.
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Re the Sunak clip. Essentially this is terrible journalism.
When a politician says something stupid, undeniably the case here, any halfway competent journalist needs to pick this up and question them on it.
- If on questioning it becomes apparent they meant what they said then their stupidity is quite correctly exposed to the voting public.
- Alternatively where they have misspoken they are fairly given an immediate opportunity to correct themselves and where appropriate apologies. They can also then avoid being unfairly attacked by opponents on a genuine mistake - opponents who could infer and spread all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense from an innocent slip of the tongue.
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Ones a born liar and ones dangerously stupid
And yet the very same people who guffaw over Abbott's one mistake (rapidly corrected) never ever comment negatively on Johnson's career-long record of lying (never corrected). Strange, don't you think?
Not at all, the public hate Labour more than the conservatives so it fits
So williamson who can barely tie shoelaces be pilloried and hounded, it help if your mates own the comics?
Minister admits mistake over Marcus Rashford-Maro Itoje mix-up
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58490809
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https://mobile.twitter.com/GlennyRodge/status/1435609419396620294
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkum4B162M
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I'd say there's an lazy nastiness in people that delights in seeing someone make a stupid, but innocent slip up and then struggle under pressure, but doesn't care about someone confidently lying as a matter of policy.
I'm also sure the fact that one person is a strident (hectoring, even) black female and the other is a jolly good white chap from the English upper classes has something to do with some people's reaction, but I'm pointing no fingers.
Jeez. Let’s play the racist card quick, it always works.
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Hound, why do you still bother?
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Good question BB.
I suppose through a sense of duty.
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22486
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I'm not the first to suggest it's the reason for all the posts hound, why are you so mean to me and a few others that could call you the same.
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I'm not the first to suggest it's the reason for all the posts hound, why are you so mean to me and a few others that could call you the same.
LoL.
So you and a few of your mates have had a go at me for having some different points of view, which should be ok on a forum, but if it goes against the rhetoric of your gang it isn’t allowed.
Then you tell me how many posts I am allowed to write.
Unbelievable Jeff.
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I'm not the first to suggest it's the reason for all the posts hound, why are you so mean to me and a few others that could call you the same.
LoL.
So you and a few of your mates have had a go at me for having some different points of view, which should be ok on a forum, but if it goes against the rhetoric of your gang it isn’t allowed.
Then you tell me how many posts I am allowed to write.
Unbelievable Jeff.
wow a reply, now you're getting how it works after all this time
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22486
Like the above very grown up post you mean.
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Only you would try to troll someone that has blocked you hound
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He hasn’t really blocked me.
He couldn’t live without knowing what people on here are saying.
Anyway, unlike you, i haven't trolled anyone.
I have posted comments on some occasions after bst has posted something i have an opinion on but if he chooses not to read it then that is his prerogative.
Others might want to read my post.
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Exactly, Hound. There is no way on this earth that Billy will not be reading our posts. Just another laughable attempt for him to try to give the perception of someone with a higher moral stand (in my case, at least).
I bet he is spitting feathers as his fingers twitch above the keyboard, desperate to reply but knowing he can’t without looking a complete fool.
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He hasn’t really blocked me.
He couldn’t live without knowing what people on here are saying.
Anyway, unlike you, i haven't trolled anyone.
I have posted comments on some occasions after bst has posted something i have an opinion on but if he chooses not to read it then that is his prerogative.
Others might want to read my post.
Don't be so demure hound or shall I call you puppy, you're the troll's troll, have you forgotten you and your idiot buddies concern for where I live at any time?
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He hasn’t really blocked me.
He couldn’t live without knowing what people on here are saying.
Anyway, unlike you, i haven't trolled anyone.
I have posted comments on some occasions after bst has posted something i have an opinion on but if he chooses not to read it then that is his prerogative.
Others might want to read my post.
Don't be so demure hound or shall I call you puppy, you're the troll's troll, have you forgotten you and your idiot buddies concern for where I live at any time?
So we're idiots now are we? Well at least we're all buddies.
Have you got any buddies? With the amount of time you spend on here, I'd say that's doubtful.
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I'd like to congratulate BST on his thread not going off topic.
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I clicked on page 2 of this thread to see what it was about and if it was worth reading page 1.
Failed miserably on the first part - can't be arsed with the second. Several other posters should have done the same imho.
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i hadn't a clue initially --- but decided to take up the challenge --- guessed i could get the theory of relativity into it to crack it without trying to use "clever words" .
imagine a bloke jumps off a skyscraper ( i used to joke it was a practical example of the doppler effect) every person on every floor hears his scream - to the screamer his scream is a constant frequency but to others on different floors it sounds different as the doppler effect kicks in
for the insomniacs around try this
https://www2.hawaii.edu/~pine/book1qts/chapter7qts.html
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He hasn’t really blocked me.
He couldn’t live without knowing what people on here are saying.
Anyway, unlike you, i haven't trolled anyone.
I have posted comments on some occasions after bst has posted something i have an opinion on but if he chooses not to read it then that is his prerogative.
Others might want to read my post.
Don't be so demure hound or shall I call you puppy, you're the troll's troll, have you forgotten you and your idiot buddies concern for where I live at any time?
So we're idiots now are we? Well at least we're all buddies.
Have you got any buddies? With the amount of time you spend on here, I'd say that's doubtful.
/quote]
Only if you're a troll Steve and proving the point to the world.
Your second sentence proves the first I would have thought, and all because you have a different view of politics, I suggest you grow up a bit.
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And so it goes on.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1447125709747544067
As I keep saying, this is not normal. Until VERY recently, politicians who blatantly lied about matters of objective truth simply didn't prosper.
But if voters don't give a f**k about lying by people on their side, where is the incentive to tell the truth?
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Love how you automatically believe the source that backs your view without any consideration they may be lying……..
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In the 2019 Election campaign, I saw Kwarteng lie brazenly on a topic where the facts were easily establishable.
Occam's Razor comes into play.
And if Kwarteng is being maligned, doubtless he will be straining every sinew to set the record straight as we speak.
Let's see, eh?
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I wouldn’t be surprised at all, my point is you are so biased in your thinking you accept anything anti government without question, that’s a dangerous place to be for your credibility, especially as you see yourself as fair minded and open to all facts.
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What credibility?
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I wouldn’t be surprised at all, my point is you are so biased in your thinking you accept anything anti government without question, that’s a dangerous place to be for your credibility, especially as you see yourself as fair minded and open to all facts.
Ldr.
As I say, Occam's Razor. If a man who I know has lied before and not once apologised is accused of lying again, by someone with skin in the game who stands to lose credence if he is wrong, I'm inclined to believe that man is lying.
Kwarteng has had all day to provide the evidence that he was not lying. He hasn't said a word.
You don't gain credibility by doing the Three Monkey act in situations like these you know...
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Yeah, like Kwartang has spent all day reading f**king Twitter!
Jesus Christ!
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BB
That tweet was posted by a senior Sky journalist. It was on Sky news.
Do you really think a Cabinet Minister accused of lying in a news item on our 3rd or 4th biggest news broadcaster is going to say "Ah, f**k it. I can't be arsed. I'll weed the garden and scratch my ballacks all day"?
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BB
That tweet was posted by a senior Sky journalist. It was on Sky news.
Do you really think a Cabinet Minister accused of lying in a news item on our 3rd or 4th biggest news broadcaster is going to say "Ah, f**k it. I can't be arsed. I'll weed the garden and scratch my ballacks all day"?
That sort of accusation occurs 24/7 these days, so yes, a cabinet minister would say "f**k it".
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Bb, don’t you see, now Sky support BSTs line of thought they are suddenly credible
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I always thought BST hated Sky and refused to entertain it and all who sailed in it!
He'll be buying Jeremy Clarkson's life story next!
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I know news travels slowly to some folks' central cortexes in here, but Murdoch hasn't owned Sky News for nearly 3 years.
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Who mentioned Murdoch
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Ah, so Ldr's right and now Sky support your line of thought they are suddenly credible?
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I wouldn’t be surprised at all, my point is you are so biased in your thinking you accept anything anti government without question, that’s a dangerous place to be for your credibility, especially as you see yourself as fair minded and open to all facts.
Anything and everything should be questioned Ldr, it's how checks and balances work, it's how governments are held to account, when they are found to have lied and there are no consequences there is a problem.
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Ah, so Ldr's right and now Sky support your line of thought they are suddenly credible?
No it's your blind support for anyone that opposes bst about anything in the universe that is stupid bb
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Ah, so Ldr's right and now Sky support your line of thought they are suddenly credible?
No BB
Now Sky News isn't a mouthpiece for a man who has a 50 year record of promoting misinformation, and now it has a record of quality investigative journalism, there's no prima facie reason to assume its journalists engage in politically motivated lying.
Simple really, if you stop looking for arguments and apply your brain.
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So, as I said, Ldr's right and now Sky support your line of thought they are suddenly credible!
I know the truth has never been foremost in your objectives, but let's be honest here, any credibility you might have had on this forum half a decade ago is now diminished. You continue to dig a hole so deep you're almost en route with your mate in Australia.
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So, as I said, Ldr's right and now Sky support your line of thought they are suddenly credible!
I know the truth has never been foremost in your objectives, but let's be honest here, any credibility you might have had on this forum half a decade ago is now diminished. You continue to dig a hole so deep you're almost en route with your mate in Australia.
like a russian joining a queue.
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BB
As ever, you are perfectly at liberty to counter arguments in here. If you have examples of other politicians systematically lying on issues of objective truth, post them.
If you have evidence that the politicians I'm accusing of systematically lying on matters of objective truth, post it.
If you have evidence that Sky News, post-Murdoch, is unreliable on matters of objective truth, post it.
If you have evidence of other politicians being accused, wrongly, of lying, and not countering those accusations, post it.
Or, if you prefer, just keep needling to cause pointless arguments.
Your call.
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BST. Like I've said over, and over and over and over and over again, to act like you would make me as ridiculous as you. You choose to spend your life searching for evidence in an attempt to convince others (and no doubt yourself), that you are right. Nobody else gives a f**k what you think or what you find, other than the (dwindling?) handful of supporters you have on here who stand by your every word.
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BST. Like I've said over, and over and over and over and over again, to act like you would make me as ridiculous as you. You choose to spend your life searching for evidence in an attempt to convince others (and no doubt yourself), that you are right. Nobody else gives a f**k what you think or what you find, other than the (dwindling?) handful of supporters you have on here who stand by your every word.
bentley babooshka
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Gareth Keenan
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BST. Like I've said over, and over and over and over and over again, to act like you would make me as ridiculous as you. You choose to spend your life searching for evidence in an attempt to convince others (and no doubt yourself), that you are right. Nobody else gives a f**k what you think or what you find, other than the (dwindling?) handful of supporters you have on here who stand by your every word.
I see you've made your call.
Night night.
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With remarks like that, who do you actually think you are convincing?
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With remarks like that, who do you actually think you are convincing?
I'm just pointing out that you CHOOSE not to bother engaging with substantive issues. But you DO choose to spend time chucking out slurs and insults and making unsubstantiated claims that you've just yourself admitted you can't be arsed to check up. That's the call you've made. For years.
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Today's Times
Treasury says Kwarteng is 'making things up'
But people on here say he isn't. Hmmm...
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1447314398381592581
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BB's been logged in a while, he's probably typing out his apology
Nope, he's just logged out.
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I wouldn’t be surprised at all, my point is you are so biased in your thinking you accept anything anti government without question, that’s a dangerous place to be for your credibility, especially as you see yourself as fair minded and open to all facts.
Anything and everything should be questioned Ldr, it's how checks and balances work, it's how governments are held to account, when they are found to have lied and there are no consequences there is a problem.
Couldn’t agree more Syd, maybe you could explain to some that them applying Occam’s razor does not count as checking sources.
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I wouldn’t be surprised at all, my point is you are so biased in your thinking you accept anything anti government without question, that’s a dangerous place to be for your credibility, especially as you see yourself as fair minded and open to all facts.
Anything and everything should be questioned Ldr, it's how checks and balances work, it's how governments are held to account, when they are found to have lied and there are no consequences there is a problem.
Couldn’t agree more Syd, maybe you could explain to some that them applying Occam’s razor does not count as checking sources.
It's difficult for me to interpret what another means within any comment they may make Ldr, Occam's razor, which I have just had to remind myself for accuracy, means that one shouldn't extrapolate beyond what is necessary if I have that correct. I tend to absorb the gist of a comment/thread depending how involved I am with any conversation. I will let bst advise you as to what he meant by it.
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Hound, that is because they hate their own country, in one case the hate comes from thousands of miles away where they see no good here only bad, but like to think they should still have a say in how we run our country.
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Hound, that is because they hate their own country, in one case the hate comes from thousands of miles away where they see no good here only bad, but like to think they should still have a say in how we run our country.
Totally agree with you there selby it's time the government told us the truth about russian interference aye?
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So, despite this accusation of lying now being all over the media, there's not a dickie bird from Kwarteng. Maybe he's a new form of politician who doesn't care about his reputation being traduced.
In fairness, some obscure minister that even a political obsessive like me has never heard of did support him on the radio this morning.
Damian Hinds was asked if Kwarteng had lied and replied "Of course not."
So there you go. I apologise profusely for ever questioning him.
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Maybe Kwarteng did speak to the Treasury on Friday.
From Sky news.
Kwasi Kwarteng has made a formal request to the Treasury for support to industries hit by high energy prices, Sky News understands
Leaders of the UK's energy intensive sectors held talks with Mr Kwarteng on Friday and Monday in which they emphasised the "seriousness of the situation facing energy intensive industries this winter”.
.. Mr Kwarteng's request comes after a row in which the Treasury denied it was in discussions with the Business Secretary, but Home Office minister Damian Hinds said Mr Kwarteng had not lied when he claimed his team was in discussions with the Treasury.
Asked if Mr Kwarteng did have a row with Chancellor Rishi Sunak, the business secretary told Sky News: "Not at all, we get on very well."
A Treasury source told Sky News on Sunday they are "not involved in any talks" and added that it was not the first time Mr Kwarteng "has made things up in interviews".
Mr Hinds said of the row: "These unnamed sources stories come out from time to time.
"The fact is government departments, government ministers, talk to each other the whole time and of course with an issue like this, with these rising global prices and business having to grapple and deal with it to make sure they break even and can make a margin of course that is something that the business secretary - and of course the energy secretary - is going to be totally focussed on.
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So, despite this accusation of lying now being all over the media, there's not a dickie bird from Kwarteng. Maybe he's a new form of politician who doesn't care about his reputation being traduced.
In fairness, some obscure minister that even a political obsessive like me has never heard of did support him on the radio this morning.
Damian Hinds was asked if Kwarteng had lied and replied "Of course not."
So there you go. I apologise profusely for ever questioning him.
Apology accepted. That’s a start, at least.
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Here's a photo of johnson explaining how the build back better genie is going solve all Britains problems.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/11/no-10-backs-kwasi-kwarteng-in-treasury-spat-over-energy-prices