Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: normal rules on August 31, 2021, 10:36:55 pm
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On look north tonight.
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Do they have to pay good and accommodation out of that.?
Supply and demand eh.?
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Who would have thought it? Flooding the country with eastern europeans kept down wages for British workers. Brexit benefit.
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Lorry drivers (some) now on 54grand a year.
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£20 an hour !!! It’ll be piece work and I very much doubt many will hit it. I’ll ask my mate who works in the fields if he’s on that
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I’m not a cabbage picker I’m a cabbage pickers son, I’m only picking cabbages till the cabbage picker comes ……..
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Lorry drivers and cabbage pickers will not be on that, spoke to a brakes drive who delivery food to work , they have had a pay rise of 3.5 k per year to 32 k per year
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Not all, I said some. Naylors farms near spalding are paying £20 per hr. to pick cabbage.
Waitrose are paying lorry drivers just shy of 54k.
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Most companies are not paying that to lorry drivers and it won't last, they'll be under consultation before long.
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The shortage of lorry drivers isn’t going to be resolved anytime soon. Wetherspoons reporting shortage of beer in chains due to same.
Diet Coke also in short supply in supermarkets.
Milkshakes in Mac Donald’s
The list goes on.
They reckon there is a shortage of tens of thousands of drivers.
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Paying more to lorry drivers doesn't solve the shortage as it doesn't increase the number of qualified drivers. It only encourages existing drivers to go to higher paid jobs and leave their current employers in the lurch and increase the chaos.
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Apparently, there are thousands of LGV licence holders not driving trucks. Perhaps a pay increase will encourage them back into the job.
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Apparently, there are thousands of LGV licence holders not driving trucks. Perhaps a pay increase will encourage them back into the job.
...resulting in a decrease in wages for truck drivers.
Supply and demand.
Meanwhile, the macro effect of supply chain dislocations will have a significant negative effect on the wider economy - hence other folks' income.
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Some folk are never happy. The so called champions of the working class are moaning because working people are being paid more!
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Apparently, there are thousands of LGV licence holders not driving trucks. Perhaps a pay increase will encourage them back into the job.
...resulting in a decrease in wages for truck drivers.
Supply and demand.
Meanwhile, the macro effect of supply chain dislocations will have a significant negative effect on the wider economy - hence other folks' income.
Rubbish
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Some folk are never happy. The so called champions of the working class are moaning because working people are being paid more!
Not moaning. Simply pointing out logical consequences. Fascinating how the usual suspects on here get arsey when logic comes into an argument.
This is not a sustainable situation. Yes, because supply of truck drivers currently doesn't meet demand, wages go up. But if all these ex-truckers come back into the industry, there be plenty of supply of labour, so companies won't have to pay higher wages.
Not sure which bit of that you and BB don't get.
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Some folk are never happy. The so called champions of the working class are moaning because working people are being paid more!
Not moaning. Simply pointing out logical consequences. Fascinating how the usual suspects on here get arsey when logic comes into an argument.
This is not a sustainable situation. Yes, because supply of truck drivers currently doesn't meet demand, wages go up. But if all these ex-truckers come back into the industry, there be plenty of supply of labour, so companies won't have to pay higher wages.
Not sure which bit of that you and BB don't get.
That argument applies to anything. If we are awash with brain surgeons then they would be paid accordingly. You take it while you can get it and if for the foreseeable these workers are earning more then that is good for them or would you rather they were all on the minimum wage?
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I personally think lorry drivers ( and many others ) have been underpaid for years. I drove HGV for Sainsbury’s for 6 weeks in between leaving the forces and starting my 2nd career. Utterly garbage pay for the working conditions and hours.
I hope those lorry drivers who are enjoying better pay get good nailed on contracts so that employers cannot cut their pay back to ridiculously low levels.
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AL
Yes, of course that argument applies to anything.
And yes of course the current increase in wages for truckers is good for them and I don't begrudge them that at all. What the f**k makes you think I want them to be on minimum wages?
My point is that their current increase in wages is due to a major fault in the supply chain. There are not enough truck drivers to move all the goods that need moving. Paying them more doesn't suddenly magic up extra capacity. So the entire economy suffers as a result and the consequence is that some other poor t**t loses their job or has reduced hours. So this is not a sustainable situation.
Meantime, the higher costs of paying truckers more get passed onto customers in higher prices. So that leads to higher inflation, which reduces everyone else's standard of living, including the folk who work in the shops that the truckers supply.
So, yes, great for a tiny number of working class folk. Bad for the rest of the working class. As I say, this is just NOT a sustainable way to up wages.
The way the Market works to correct this is that, if and when we get more truckers in the market, haulage companies won't have to pay higher wages to attract the few drivers there are at the moment. So you have two choices - macroeconomic hit through the supply chain not having enough capacity. Or enough capacity provided, in which case there's no drive to pay higher wages.
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I personally think lorry drivers ( and many others ) have been underpaid for years. I drove HGV for Sainsbury’s for 6 weeks in between leaving the forces and starting my 2nd career. Utterly garbage pay for the working conditions and hours.
I hope those lorry drivers who are enjoying better pay get good nailed on contracts so that employers cannot cut their pay back to ridiculously low levels.
Agreed 100%. But that needs the entire industry to buy into paying more, including us as consumers.
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I personally think lorry drivers ( and many others ) have been underpaid for years. I drove HGV for Sainsbury’s for 6 weeks in between leaving the forces and starting my 2nd career. Utterly garbage pay for the working conditions and hours.
I hope those lorry drivers who are enjoying better pay get good nailed on contracts so that employers cannot cut their pay back to ridiculously low levels.
Agreed 100%. But that needs the entire industry to buy into paying more, including us as consumers.
And this is an opportunity for that to happen. An opportunity that would NEVER have been an option without us leaving the EU.
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We wouldn't have had the opportunity to have empty shelves in shops either!
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Glyn. If you not having a Maccies’ milkshake with your burger or a cheap pint with your pie and chips at ‘Spoons means that drivers in Britain might eventually be appreciated more by their employers and consumers, then I can live with that.
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I personally think lorry drivers ( and many others ) have been underpaid for years. I drove HGV for Sainsbury’s for 6 weeks in between leaving the forces and starting my 2nd career. Utterly garbage pay for the working conditions and hours.
I hope those lorry drivers who are enjoying better pay get good nailed on contracts so that employers cannot cut their pay back to ridiculously low levels.
Agreed 100%. But that needs the entire industry to buy into paying more, including us as consumers.
I certainly don’t mind an extra few pence on staple foods /beer etc so that drivers get paid better. At least this recent uplift in some areas is a start. I hope it spreads.
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Glyn. If you not having a Maccies’ milkshake with your burger or a cheap pint with your pie and chips at ‘Spoons means that drivers in Britain might eventually be appreciated more by their employers and consumers, then I can live with that.
I can live with that too. I can't stand milk (so never have milkshake, and certainly have no idea what the hell a 'Maccies' is) and I only really have a drink at Christmas. You'd know more about Spoons than me, I'd wager, as I've never knowingly been in one and you seem to know what's on the menu.
You really need to brush up your stereotypes as you're looking silly now!
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Not stereotypes at all Glyn. ‘Maccies’ and ‘Spoons’ is cool speak for Macdonald’s and Wetherspoon’s, both directly quoted previously as running out of milk shakes and beer, respectively.
Silly boy.
And if I chose to put you in a stereotypical box, believe me, it wouldn’t be either of those.
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Well, MacDonalds and Weatherspoons obviously mean more to you than me. Probably because I grew up in a town with neither within a very large radius.
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What food items have you missed out on during this truck driver crisis? Perhaps we could come up with a scenario that you do care about.
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Good grief chaps.I thought the whole thing about some of the countries backbone workers getting a bit of extra dosh was a positive thing. Now it’s descended into a tit for tat over powdered milkshakes and cheap beer.
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I only see one person having a go at lorry drivers earning more pay.
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Good grief chaps.I thought the whole thing about some of the countries backbone workers getting a bit of extra dosh was a positive thing. Now it’s descended into a tit for tat over powdered milkshakes and cheap beer.
It’s your fault, Normal, for only mentioning shortages of products that our Glyn doesn’t care about. I bet he’s never heard of Diet Coke, either.
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What food items have you missed out on during this truck driver crisis? Perhaps we could come up with a scenario that you do care about.
The most obvious one has been sprouts. I haven't seen a fresh one for at least a month in any supermarket and I suspect it's not going to be the only fresh veg that's going to disappear when the harvesttimes come.
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Good grief chaps.I thought the whole thing about some of the countries backbone workers getting a bit of extra dosh was a positive thing. Now it’s descended into a tit for tat over powdered milkshakes and cheap beer.
It’s your fault, Normal, for only mentioning shortages of products that our Glyn doesn’t care about. I bet he’s never heard of Diet Coke, either.
Diabetics love diet pop.
And the pop shelves are getting emptier by the week too.
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What food items have you missed out on during this truck driver crisis? Perhaps we could come up with a scenario that you do care about.
The most obvious one has been sprouts. I haven't seen a fresh one for at least a month in any supermarket and I suspect it's not going to be the only fresh veg that's going to disappear when the harvesttimes come.
It’s not sprout season.
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What food items have you missed out on during this truck driver crisis? Perhaps we could come up with a scenario that you do care about.
The most obvious one has been sprouts. I haven't seen a fresh one for at least a month in any supermarket and I suspect it's not going to be the only fresh veg that's going to disappear when the harvesttimes come.
Thanks Glyn. Does this work for you?
Glyn. If you not having SPROUTS on your Sunday roast means that drivers in Britain might eventually be appreciated more by their employers and consumers, then I can live with that.
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What food items have you missed out on during this truck driver crisis? Perhaps we could come up with a scenario that you do care about.
The most obvious one has been sprouts. I haven't seen a fresh one for at least a month in any supermarket and I suspect it's not going to be the only fresh veg that's going to disappear when the harvesttimes come.
It’s not sprout season.
They don't all come from the UK. And even in the UK they're grown year-round.
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What food items have you missed out on during this truck driver crisis? Perhaps we could come up with a scenario that you do care about.
The most obvious one has been sprouts. I haven't seen a fresh one for at least a month in any supermarket and I suspect it's not going to be the only fresh veg that's going to disappear when the harvesttimes come.
Thanks Glyn. Does this work for you?
Glyn. If you not having SPROUTS on your Sunday roast means that drivers in Britain might eventually be appreciated more by their employers and consumers, then I can live with that.
The sprouts are for my missus.
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I only see one person having a go at lorry drivers earning more pay.
The thing is when they slip up with statements that ridicule what they claim to genuinely stand for the odd own goal often shows what they really stand for.
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Whose had a go at lorry drivers earning more pay? I must have missed that one.
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I only see one person having a go at lorry drivers earning more pay.
The thing is when they slip up with statements that ridicule what they claim to genuinely stand for the odd own goal often shows what they really stand for.
What in the name of holy f**k are you blathering on about.
I am ALL for lower paid workers getting a better deal.
This is not a sustainable way to do that and overall, on average, will lead to a WORSE outcome for the whole working class because lack of capacity in the haulage sector damages the economy as a whole. It's blindingly obvious why if you stop your usual spoiling for a fight and think about it.
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b*llocks
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Only to someone with f**kall knowledge of economics.
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Only to someone with f**kall knowledge of economics.
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Only to someone with f**kall knowledge of economics.
I'd like to be all diplomatic and say you're a waste of space, my friend, but you're not my friend.
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did someone say diplodocus?
How serious is the shortage of lorry drivers?
By Reality Check team
BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/57810729
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Plenty of fruit and veg at the grocers in Epworth. No food shortage i can see.
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You can take fruit and veg to the grocers in Epworth with a wheelbarrow!
There is no shortage of food - as we are exporting less, £2billion less, just a shortage of people to pick it, process it and move it. Along with a shortage of police officers, nurses, care home staff, social care assistants etc
There is a labour shortage - as we were warned there would be. Whats the government plan to do anything about it?
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Everyone can work longer hours Wilts ................
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You can take fruit and veg to the grocers in Epworth with a wheelbarrow!
There is no shortage of food - as we are exporting less, £2billion less, just a shortage of people to pick it, process it and move it. Along with a shortage of police officers, nurses, care home staff, social care assistants etc
There is a labour shortage - as we were warned there would be. Whats the government plan to do anything about it?
Well businesses can start by paying decent wages if they want people to work for them.
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Or perhaps the fit and unemployed could be persuaded to take a role.....? .... or perhaps not
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The shelves were empty of bleach last night in our local supermarkets.
Perhaps the locals have taken to drinking it.
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Everyone can work longer hours Wilts ................
I'm doing 55-60 per week working in a kitchen ,fcuk working more and we are struggling to get food and toilet rolls have been out of stock for 3 weeks
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Paying more definitely is not the answer. It just gets passed on to consumers and then we get higher inflation then everyone else wants more money etc etc. Viscious circle that can spiral if not careful.
The answer is simply to train more people isn't it? From discussions I've seen in the workplace a lot of European drivers weren't arsed about brexit it didn't impact them. But covid did. They wanted to be near families etc. It's them not returning where the brexit impact is felt and it's very easy for the government to fix that if they choose.
It shouldn't be impossible to train more British people. Equally the non financial aspects of the job are a real problem. By that I mean poor managers, poor conditions and unsociable hours
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There is a shortage of hgv drivers across the Eu, it has nothing to with brexit. As 7 allude to bfyp, covid has hurt the haulage industry.
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scroll down till you get to 'reasons for shortages of drivers'
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58334091
Some may find it fascinating.
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In the long run, there is of course a simple solution to this specific problem. Train more British drivers.[1]
But as a very great man once said, in the long run we are all dead. The art of getting these decisions right is to get the long run situation you want without doing unacceptable damage in the short run.
Fortunately there is a very simple short term solution, which is what the supply chain trade is begging the Govt to apply. Temporarily allow European drivers to fill the shortfall. But of course that cannot happen, because it would require the Govt to admit that Brexit was a major factor in the supply chain dislocation. And the Govt cannot, as a matter of principle, admit that Brexit causes avoidable problems.
[1] There is a much deeper long term issue here, if we try to answer every staffing shortfall in every sector by training more UK workers. The question of if we have enough UK workers to fill all the gaps. In the haulage sector alone, it is estimated that we are 100,000 drivers short. But, pre-pandemic (and hopefully post-pandemic) there were "only" just over 1 million people looking for work. We've already seen the irony of the arch-Brexiteer Tim Martin of Weatherspoons saying he wants more EU immigration because he can't fill bar jobs from the UK population. And there are huge shortfalls of required staff in many other sectors. NHS, social care, police, construction to name just a few. At some point, especially if the economy finally picks up, there simply aren't enough UK staff to service what the economy needs. Then you are back to requiring large economic migration to fill the gaps.
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Everyone can work longer hours Wilts ................
I'm doing 55-60 per week working in a kitchen ,fcuk working more and we are struggling to get food and toilet rolls have been out of stock for 3 weeks
It was a throw away line to Wilts aimed at the short termism and refusal of the government to grasp the nettle and deal with the labour shortages in many areas, I'm appalled that you have to work those hours Rich.
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My c + e licence expired when I was 45 and sadly I was not in a role that could justify the time and cost of having this renewed. Things is, I haven’t lost the ability to drive an artic. I did wonder how many other drivers fall into this category. Perhaps the govt should make some concessions for drivers wanting to return. Just with a drs certificate to say you are fit and well etc.
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My c + e licence expired when I was 45 and sadly I was not in a role that could justify the time and cost of having this renewed. Things is, I haven’t lost the ability to drive an artic. I did wonder how many other drivers fall into this category. Perhaps the govt should make some concessions for drivers wanting to return. Just with a drs certificate to say you are fit and well etc.
I assume that other EU drivers who drove HGV's in the UK (for UK firms) were subject to any tests/licence checks when they started driving over here...? How stringent are these checks and/or tests?
Genuine questions - I have no idea how this was worked out.
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We're massively overpopulated yet we're told there is a labour shortage. Maybe they could not bother putting up NI and cut benefits instead to encourage more people to get off their backsides and go to work?
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Maybe the shortage of HGV drivers will improve with this...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58487347
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It could increase the frequency of this ....................
''Man charged after lorry crashes into house in East Kilbride
Published8 hours ago''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-58474392
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Tory farmer asks for Tater pickers
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It could increase the frequency of this ....................
''Man charged after lorry crashes into house in East Kilbride
Published8 hours ago''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-58474392
How?
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Tory farmer asks for Tater pickers
I need drink, Spoons anyone?