Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: normal rules on September 02, 2021, 09:38:56 pm
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Sadly and somewhat unsurprisingly, I see the Budapest crowd have bathed themselves in glory again tonight, with monkey chants aimed at England players along with missiles thrown.
Let’s see how uefa deal with them.I won’t hold my breath.
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Hungary is to all intents and purposes a fascist country. We are normalising the descent of a country down that path by just turning a blind eye to what is happening there.
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Fantastic response from Declan Rice.
Sod 'em, I'll drink their drink
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Hungary is to all intents and purposes a fascist country. We are normalising the descent of a country down that path by just turning a blind eye to what is happening there.
Why doesn’t this post surprise me ?
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Fantastic response from Declan Rice.
Sod 'em, I'll drink their drink
Who was it who had a pie thrown at him as he waited to take a corner, and he picked it up and took a huge bite out of it?
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Whilst I refuse to take sides between yourself hound and bst, ever since the early 20th century, Hungary has been a hotbed for racism. They sided with the facist Italians in the 20’s and 30’s, then hitler and the nazis in the lead up to and during ww2. Never been allies of ours. Not one of our favoured countries. They are one good reason to be rid of the Eu. Contribute little, take as much as they can. In fact they could be on the verge of leaving or being kicked out of the Eu. They like to back a losing side too, constantly getting battered by the soviets every time they entered conflict with them in the 1940’s.
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What did Sterling have wrote on his shirt?
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People follow a leader whether it be in a household or a country, if the leader is racist it promotes racism (but not limited to) within the group.
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Couldn't agree more with most of your post NR. Hungary is a deeply problematic place and the behaviour of their fans reflects the traditions there and their current government. It's up to authorities to clamp down hard on this behaviour.
You'd expect me to disagree on the EU and I do up to a point. A key aim of the EU has always been to cement democratic norms in a fractured continent and mostly it has been an unqualified success. There were fascist regimes in many countries just years before they joined the EU. Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece. It's unthinkable that they could go fascist again. But the EU has slipped up badly in Hungary, allowing them to slide away from democracy without action being taken. And it emboldens the Kitsons in their black shirts spewing their filth tonight.
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Hungary is a democratic Christian nation who do their best to defend the borders of Europe. This country could learn a lot from them.
I'd rather have Orban as a leader than any of the shower we have here. At least he sticks up for his own country and people.
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After everything Rashford has done for them............
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Whilst I refuse to take sides between yourself hound and bst, ever since the early 20th century, Hungary has been a hotbed for racism. They sided with the facist Italians in the 20’s and 30’s, then hitler and the nazis in the lead up to and during ww2. Never been allies of ours. Not one of our favoured countries. They are one good reason to be rid of the Eu. Contribute little, take as much as they can. In fact they could be on the verge of leaving or being kicked out of the Eu. They like to back a losing side too, constantly getting battered by the soviets every time they entered conflict with them in the 1940’s.
NR, I have a friend who escaped from Hungary in the mid fifties and came to England.
He told me a story about the secret police turning up at their house late one evening and taking his his brother away.
He never saw his brother again.
I have always been aware of the right wing effect in Hungary and despise it.
It is so far removed from the UK and to suggest that we are becoming like that is ridiculous.
I have no affinity to any political party despite what some on here think.
In my opinion all politicians are the same and can’t be trusted.
I fully agree with your comments on the racism situation in Hungary and my post further up the thread in no way condones what goes on there.
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Dozens of posts a few weeks back condeming England players for making an anti-rascist gesture.
Hardly any condeming fans making racist gestures.
Under the new laws your friend would not now be able to come to the UK hound. Nor can you protest about it. Thats where fascism starts.
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Dozens of posts a few weeks back condeming England players for making an anti-rascist gesture.
Hardly any condeming fans making racist gestures.
Under the new laws your friend would not now be able to come to the UK hound. Nor can you protest about it. Thats where fascism starts.
He escaped at the time of the 1956 revolution wilts.
I don’t ever think the UK will have anything similar to that.
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Whilst I refuse to take sides between yourself hound and bst, ever since the early 20th century, Hungary has been a hotbed for racism. They sided with the facist Italians in the 20’s and 30’s, then hitler and the nazis in the lead up to and during ww2. Never been allies of ours. Not one of our favoured countries. They are one good reason to be rid of the Eu. Contribute little, take as much as they can. In fact they could be on the verge of leaving or being kicked out of the Eu. They like to back a losing side too, constantly getting battered by the soviets every time they entered conflict with them in the 1940’s.
NR, I have a friend who escaped from Hungary in the mid fifties and came to England.
He told me a story about the secret police turning up at their house late one evening and taking his his brother away.
He never saw his brother again.
I have always been aware of the right wing effect in Hungary and despise it.
It is so far removed from the UK and to suggest that we are becoming like that is ridiculous.
I have no affinity to any political party despite what some on here think.
In my opinion all politicians are the same and can’t be trusted.
I fully agree with your comments on the racism situation in Hungary and my post further up the thread in no way condones what goes on there.
I don’t think I suggested the uk is anything like Hungary did I? If I did it certain,y was not intended.
Hungary has about as much chance as being as democratic as the uk as Afghanistan has of being a Christian majority country.
It’s beggars belief that last nights game was played in front of a crowd at all. Another good example of the utter counterintuitive beurocracy involved in world football. Eufa and fifa on different planets. They still have a three match no crowd sanction in place I believe, but only for euro competition. Ridiculous.
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Budapest is great though - if you feel like a trip away.
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Budapest is great though - if you feel like a trip away.
I'm not sure that Sterling,Bellingham or Saka might enjoy it there though unfortunately.
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Budapest is great though - if you feel like a trip away.
I'm not sure that Sterling,Bellingham or Saka might enjoy it there though unfortunately.
Good point - well presented...
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After everything Rashford has done for them............
underrated comment.
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Southgate again showed his class and firm diplomacy by standing by his players and condemning the racists, are coaches all the same too?
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I though he showed great calmness despite having ice thrown at him from the crowd during one interview.
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Whilst I refuse to take sides between yourself hound and bst, ever since the early 20th century, Hungary has been a hotbed for racism. They sided with the facist Italians in the 20’s and 30’s, then hitler and the nazis in the lead up to and during ww2. Never been allies of ours. Not one of our favoured countries. They are one good reason to be rid of the Eu. Contribute little, take as much as they can. In fact they could be on the verge of leaving or being kicked out of the Eu. They like to back a losing side too, constantly getting battered by the soviets every time they entered conflict with them in the 1940’s.
NR, I have a friend who escaped from Hungary in the mid fifties and came to England.
He told me a story about the secret police turning up at their house late one evening and taking his his brother away.
He never saw his brother again.
I have always been aware of the right wing effect in Hungary and despise it.
It is so far removed from the UK and to suggest that we are becoming like that is ridiculous.
I have no affinity to any political party despite what some on here think.
In my opinion all politicians are the same and can’t be trusted.
I fully agree with your comments on the racism situation in Hungary and my post further up the thread in no way condones what goes on there.
I don’t think I suggested the uk is anything like Hungary did I? If I did it certain,y was not intended.
Hungary has about as much chance as being as democratic as the uk as Afghanistan has of being a Christian majority country.
It’s beggars belief that last nights game was played in front of a crowd at all. Another good example of the utter counterintuitive beurocracy involved in world football. Eufa and fifa on different planets. They still have a three match no crowd sanction in place I believe, but only for euro competition. Ridiculous.
Noone has suggested anything of the sort as far as I can see. And yes, it is an utter disgrace that they are allowed to play matches in front of fans. Full credit to Southgate and the players once again. Yet another reason to be very proud of them.
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Dozens of posts a few weeks back condeming England players for making an anti-rascist gesture.
Hardly any condeming fans making racist gestures.
Under the new laws your friend would not now be able to come to the UK hound. Nor can you protest about it. Thats where fascism starts.
He escaped at the time of the 1956 revolution wilts.
I don’t ever think the UK will have anything similar to that.
I think you missed my point hound - if your friend were a refugee fleeing persecution in his home country he would not be allowed in the UK today.
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There is hate of the British throughout the world, even by some in this country who were born here, some even give the impression of loathing of who and what we are on this forum, at one time we were respected and hated, now we are just hated, even those in this country who loath being British are hated just the same as everyone else.
When the terrorists have struck, I don't think they have ever stopped and asked anyone if they are proud of being British or not, they have killed because they hate the very thing that you are, British.
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There is hate of the British throughout the world, even by some in this country who were born here, some even give the impression of loathing of who and what we are on this forum, at one time we were respected and hated, now we are just hated, even those in this country who loath being British are hated just the same as everyone else.
When the terrorists have struck, I don't think they have ever stopped and asked anyone if they are proud of being British or not, they have killed because they hate the very thing that you are, British.
Where is the relevance in that post to Racism?
Is it just a random rant?
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Do any real football fans take any interest in the England team any more? I was under the impression it had been hijacked into becoming a left wing pc virtue signalling device. Southgate is a cnut. He talks down to ordinary people telling them what they should think, say and do. The whole England set up is an embarrassing disgrace. If they really had any interest in standing up for the oppressed they would not go to Qatar for the World Cup. But they will go, more than happy to play in stadia built on the blood of workers. Absolute hypocritical scumbags.
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No Filo, it might come as a surprise to you but it's racism against the British, its prevalent throughout the world, and your no better thought of than any of the rest of us.
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There is hate of the British throughout the world, even by some in this country who were born here, some even give the impression of loathing of who and what we are on this forum, at one time we were respected and hated, now we are just hated, even those in this country who loath being British are hated just the same as everyone else.
When the terrorists have struck, I don't think they have ever stopped and asked anyone if they are proud of being British or not, they have killed because they hate the very thing that you are, British.
You really need to get out a bit more Selby, you don't like so many different peoples yourself including young people ffs, where on earth do you get your barmy ideas from. Because some including myself disagree with you on one level does not mean anything other than I disagree with you on that level and I would think most others are the same.
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Couldn't agree more with most of your post NR. Hungary is a deeply problematic place and the behaviour of their fans reflects the traditions there and their current government. It's up to authorities to clamp down hard on this behaviour.
There won't be any clampdown in Hungary, though. And they've already shown that they would defy edicts from any outside organisation.
There was a really good editorial in yesterday's Washington Post about the number of Republicans lining up behind Tucker Carlson of Fox News, who gave a fawning interview with Orban earlier in the week, marvelling at how he had 'solved' immigration. The next Republican in the White House could well be pushing in that direction, and then the disease will be difficult to cure
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Who says I don't like people Syd? I probably mix in a much more mixed group of people than yourself and have never had any reason or incident where I have fallen out with anyone because of where they are from or the colour of their skin, and have had a great time in their company. I have a firm belief that most people are better for knowing.
The fact is that in this world this country is reviled by a lot of people, and people who live in this country and show it by what they write and the actions they are currently taking, showing their loathing of our history and what we stand for.
Just because I disagree with some of the things you say, and think differently to you doesn't mean I am wrong.
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Maybe it's your rants about young people and racist comments that give you away, can't really be sure.
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No Filo, it might come as a surprise to you but it's racism against the British, its prevalent throughout the world, and your no better thought of than any of the rest of us.
Ahh. Got it. They weren't making monkey chants at BLACK players. They were aiming them at BRITISH players. Because lefties in this country hate Britain.
Perfect example of how a diet of the Express and Mike Graham f**ks up a brain. Kids. Just say no.
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I wondered how long a post about racism in a different country would self implode into a left v right verbal brawl on here.
And AL is right. The English FA will wheel their merry circus off to Qatar next year, complicit with the rest of the footballing world with the atrocities being carried out there, on slaves being used to build the very stadia they will play in.
They will take the knee, wear armbands and sing the anti racist tune.
It will not make the slightest difference.
To criticise the awful behaviour in Hungary last night and go to Qatar next year is the very epitome of hypocrisy.
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I wondered how long a post about racism in a different country would self implode into a left v right verbal brawl on here.
And AL is right. The English FA will wheel their merry circus off to Qatar next year, complicit with the rest of the footballing world with the atrocities being carried out there, on slaves being used to build the very stadia they will play in.
They will take the knee, wear armbands and sing the anti racist tune.
It will not make the slightest difference.
To criticise the awful behaviour in Hungary last night and go to Qatar next year is the very epitome of hypocrisy.
Theres only one person turned it into a L v R brawl, it’s there for all to see
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Filo, are you referring to me in that post?
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And it may surprise you to know that India ranks consistently as the most racist country on the planet. Despite it being a melting pot of differing ethnic and cultural groups, most Indians identify as Indian. They just do t like anyone who isn’t Indian, especially as neighbours.
Determining the most racist countries in the world can be difficult, and the results might not be consistent from one study to the next. The problem with racism is that it is a challenging variable to measure. Although there is no complexity within the trait of racism, it can be quite challenging to determine if someone is racist or not based on a questionnaire. Surveys are used to conduct the majority of racism research.
Two different articles published about three years apart by separate entities showed common finds regarding most racist countries. The Washington Post published an article in 2013. In discussing racism worldwide, the article dubbed India as the most racist country in the world. In 2016, Business Tech released a report of most racist countries in the world.
India is a country with a population with little diversity in terms of nationality. Most people identify as Indians, though their ethnicities can differ depending upon the area of India in which they reside or were born. Either way, if you are not used to seeing or interacting with people of different races, then it might be a bit of a cultural shock to suddenly be asked to envision yourself being neighbors with someone of a different nationality than yours.
I can’t imagine India, with a population of 1.2 billion, is a country that hates the British. The brits played a large part making the country what it is today.
Lebanon, Bahrain, Egypt and Libya all rank highly also. Again, not countries that traditionally would have a big beef with British people.
I’ve travelled a fair bit around the world and I’ve never felt hated by anyone, just for being British. Apart from Italy perhaps. Because the Italians think they are better than everyone for some reason.
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Filo, are you referring to me in that post?
No not at all, you need to curb your paranoia
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Filo, are you referring to me in that post?
No not at all, you need to curb your paranoia
To be honest, I am surprised at that as you often try to pin stuff on me that has no relevance.
I expect it of you.
Who are you on about then, maybe if you put names on your posts it would remove any doubts.
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Filo, are you referring to me in that post?
No not at all, you need to curb your paranoia
To be honest, I am surprised at that as you often try to pin stuff on me that has no relevance.
I expect it of you.
Who are you on about then, maybe if you put names on your posts it would remove any doubts.
I’m not getting into a too and frow with you, if you’ve got a complex thats your problem not mine, and thats my last word on the matter, it wasn’t aimed at you, get over it!
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I wondered how long a post about racism in a different country would self implode into a left v right verbal brawl on here.
And AL is right. The English FA will wheel their merry circus off to Qatar next year, complicit with the rest of the footballing world with the atrocities being carried out there, on slaves being used to build the very stadia they will play in.
They will take the knee, wear armbands and sing the anti racist tune.
It will not make the slightest difference.
To criticise the awful behaviour in Hungary last night and go to Qatar next year is the very epitome of hypocrisy.
Always seems to be the way. I'm still bemused where the idea came from that anyone was comparing Britain to quasi-fascist Hungary on this thread. It all seems to have gone tits up since then.
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Whilst I refuse to take sides between yourself hound and bst, ever since the early 20th century, Hungary has been a hotbed for racism. They sided with the facist Italians in the 20’s and 30’s, then hitler and the nazis in the lead up to and during ww2. Never been allies of ours. Not one of our favoured countries. They are one good reason to be rid of the Eu. Contribute little, take as much as they can. In fact they could be on the verge of leaving or being kicked out of the Eu. They like to back a losing side too, constantly getting battered by the soviets every time they entered conflict with them in the 1940’s.
It's probably more ancient than that.
Hungary is really frontier territory, to the south there is the Balkans, Albania and Turkey. Keeping foreign invaders out of Europe particularly Muslims fell to the Hungarians. They were fighting the Ottoman Empire way back.
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Yeah and the fact that they themselves were violent invaders from the Asiatic Steppe fits in where in their assessment?
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Filo, are you referring to me in that post?
No not at all, you need to curb your paranoia
To be honest, I am surprised at that as you often try to pin stuff on me that has no relevance.
I expect it of you.
Who are you on about then, maybe if you put names on your posts it would remove any doubts.
I’m not getting into a too and frow with you, if you’ve got a complex thats your problem not mine, and thats my last word on the matter, it wasn’t aimed at you, get over it!
I don’t want a to and fro either so that’s fine by me.
I wouldn’t have bothered with my last post to you had you not thrown in the paranoia thing trying to be a clever dick.
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I wondered how long a post about racism in a different country would self implode into a left v right verbal brawl on here.
And AL is right. The English FA will wheel their merry circus off to Qatar next year, complicit with the rest of the footballing world with the atrocities being carried out there, on slaves being used to build the very stadia they will play in.
They will take the knee, wear armbands and sing the anti racist tune.
It will not make the slightest difference.
To criticise the awful behaviour in Hungary last night and go to Qatar next year is the very epitome of hypocrisy.
Theres only one person turned it into a L v R brawl, it’s there for all to see
It’s there for all to see, but the one person who knows who it is won’t tell anyone else.
Hmm. Cryptic.
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Whilst I refuse to take sides between yourself hound and bst, ever since the early 20th century, Hungary has been a hotbed for racism. They sided with the facist Italians in the 20’s and 30’s, then hitler and the nazis in the lead up to and during ww2. Never been allies of ours. Not one of our favoured countries. They are one good reason to be rid of the Eu. Contribute little, take as much as they can. In fact they could be on the verge of leaving or being kicked out of the Eu. They like to back a losing side too, constantly getting battered by the soviets every time they entered conflict with them in the 1940’s.
It's probably more ancient than that.
Hungary is really frontier territory, to the south there is the Balkans, Albania and Turkey. Keeping foreign invaders out of Europe particularly Muslims fell to the Hungarians. They were fighting the Ottoman Empire way back.
It’s much mOre ancient RD. I just wanted to keep it recent. Ish.
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I'm not racist.
It's just a total coincidence I think that condeming racist behaviour is wrong and condeming anti-racist gestures is right.
I notice our Foreign Secretary has been in Qatar today. Just going to post now in the thread that people will have started condeming this visit by a senior member of the British government to a country steeped in modern slavery...
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I wondered how long a post about racism in a different country would self implode into a left v right verbal brawl on here.
And AL is right. The English FA will wheel their merry circus off to Qatar next year, complicit with the rest of the footballing world with the atrocities being carried out there, on slaves being used to build the very stadia they will play in.
They will take the knee, wear armbands and sing the anti racist tune.
It will not make the slightest difference.
To criticise the awful behaviour in Hungary last night and go to Qatar next year is the very epitome of hypocrisy.
Absolutely correct NM .
The virtue signalling from the usual suspects is laughable .
Nobody dare say the Q word .
Not Ian Wright
Not Southgate
Not Sterling
Keep taking the knee boys it's about as far as you are prepared go .
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At least Southgate stands for something tyke and is not just on the sidelines sneering
And here's someone that does speak up for Q, unless of course you mean the queen.
Jürgen Klopp meets Kop Outs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUNuPplsrdc
You can attach which ever minority group you like to this message.
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At least Southgate stands for something tyke and is not just on the sidelines sneering
And here's someone that does speak up for Q, unless of course you mean the queen.
Jürgen Klopp meets Kop Outs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUNuPplsrdc
You can attach which ever minority group you like to this message.
Standing for something comes with having substance attached to it Sydney .
Clearly 3 world cup points against our nearest group rivals was more important than instructing the players to leave the field when the monkey chants began .
3 world cup points taking you to Qatar !!!!!!
When some meat gets put on the bones taking the knee might actually mean something .
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So what do you support Tyke? give us a breakdown
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So what do you support Tyke? give us a breakdown
I support substance Sydney and not a bunch of Sky Sports personalities saying " I'm in " and very little else .
I'd support the country not going to Qatar .
I'd support the players walking off the field at the first hint of racism irrespective of the magnitude of the match or the scoreline .
I'd support Hungary banned from playing any games until they are fit to do so in the 21st century and if your going to kick it out then bloody kick it out then along with any other backward country's spouting this kind of bile .
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It appears to follow your usual modus operandi, where you keep upping the anti to the impossible to win your point Tyke.
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Ok, ….I saw the news , our black players once again were abused racially during a football match, and let’s face it, what are the authorities really going to do about it ?
Probably make some noise, blah,blah,blah !
Now let’s look at what would get better results!
Once a racist chant starts at any game anywhere, the whole team walks off, and I mean walks off and goes home, the Manager can explain to the world press that he won’t tolerate this kind of behaviour, ….nobody can argue with that, it shows solidarity from the team and sends a very clear message to the Governing bodies…
However the main problem we have is that these racially abused players haven’t thought to do that …..so they just aren’t pissed off enough……..yet!
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Supporters are divided here about supporting black players, don't you think it's best to get ones own house in order first? As soon as it's mentioned people erroneously or deliberately bring politics into it so a rational debate cannot be had.
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It appears to follow your usual modus operandi, where you keep upping the anti to the impossible to win your point Tyke.
Well when Mandela was locked up in his prison cell for decades the thought of him becoming South Africa's President seemed impossible .
Yet the virtue signalling mob can't instruct their own players to walk off a football field when they are racially abused .
Even the players themselves won't do it .
They aren't even prepared to sacrifice a world cup .
There's nothing impossible about it if the will exists .
The will unfortunately only seems to go as far as the easy yards .
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Do you support blm Tyke?
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
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Supporters are divided here about supporting black players, don't you think it's best to get ones own house in order first? As soon as it's mentioned people erroneously or deliberately bring politics into it so a rational debate cannot be had.
No they are not. They may be, however, divided about HOW black players should be supported.
You are dangerously trying to create divisions that aren’t there.
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
What utter b*llocks. Your posts are becoming more and more cretinous by the day.
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
What utter b*llocks. Your posts are becoming more and more cretinous by the day.
Correct Belton.
Tyke said that even the players themselves won’t walk off the pitch.
As far as I know the players are black players as well as white ones so how is that calling people out for suggesting black people are getting blamed for not doing what a white man is telling them what to do.
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Why won’t the white footballers walk off the pitch if their black team mates are being racially abused?
If we the public are being urged at every point and turn to throw racism out of any and all sport, …..
Then perhaps these athletes should set the tone with intent..
they should unilaterally make a statement that will shake every governing sports body and huge financial institutions by refusing to participate in any arena that shows no willingness to stamp out racism…
However ….i don’t think certain powers want this to happen
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
Can you explain this BST ….using context for us thickies?
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
What a utterly ridiculous thing to post .
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Do you support blm Tyke?
What's that got to do with anything ?
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
Can you explain this BST ….using context for us thickies?
I think I can, Sha66y:
Billy is effectively, yet ignorantly and incorrectly accusing poster/s of treating black people with contempt; indirectly accusing them of racism.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Billy.
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Tyke.
Which part of my post is ridiculous? Your posts have been precisely of that type. Telling black men how they should and shouldn't respond to abuse.
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Fascinating.
Black folk get racially abused and THEY are at fault for not doing what a white man thinks they should do.
Can you explain this BST ….using context for us thickies?
I think I can, Sha66y:
Billy is effectively, yet ignorantly and incorrectly accusing poster/s of treating black people with contempt; indirectly accusing them of racism.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Billy.
I read it this way:
Black footballer/sportsperson gets racially abused and when a white person likes me says “ make a real stance and refuse to play” because that will force change ….
the black person shouldn’t do as I say because I’m white?
Good advice has no colour surely?
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And lazily chucking around meaningless terms like "virtue signalling" isn't precisely what I said? A white person telling a black person what is an acceptable way to respond to racial abuse.
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And lazily chucking around meaningless terms like "virtue signalling" isn't precisely what I said? A white person telling a black person what is an acceptable way to respond to racial abuse.
Are you then saying a white person should not tell a black person how to respond to racial abuse?? …….quite baffling this!
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Tyke.
Which part of my post is ridiculous? Your posts have been precisely of that type. Telling black men how they should and shouldn't respond to abuse.
It's ridiculous because FIFA and UEFA have procedures in place to deal with the incidents we saw in Budapest .
I suspect those procedures weren't decided by an all black committee given its pretty straightforward to assume monkey chants aren't acceptable no matter the colour of your skin .
Southgate and his players decided not to act on Thursday night despite procedures in place .
Qualification for the world cup was deemed more important it seems .
I personally don't have to have black skin to understand that .
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And there we go Tyke.
You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.
You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.
And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.
Do you see the issue I'm having with that?
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I didn't see the incidents and wasn't even aware England had played until I saw the media reports in relation to them.
Assuming they were as bad as reported I wish that the England (and Hungary) players had shown the courage to walk off the pitch.
Where such things occur, regardless of what happens ON the pitch, a 5-0 defeat should be awarded to the team with the miscreant supporters. Both a deterrent and sends out a strong message that such behaviour is utterly unacceptable.
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Couldn't agree more with most of your post NR. Hungary is a deeply problematic place and the behaviour of their fans reflects the traditions there and their current government. It's up to authorities to clamp down hard on this behaviour.
You'd expect me to disagree on the EU and I do up to a point. A key aim of the EU has always been to cement democratic norms in a fractured continent and mostly it has been an unqualified success. There were fascist regimes in many countries just years before they joined the EU. Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece. It's unthinkable that they could go fascist again. But the EU has slipped up badly in Hungary, allowing them to slide away from democracy without action being taken. And it emboldens the Kitsons in their black shirts spewing their filth tonight.
Sorry to go off topic here but "A key aim of the EU has always been to cement democratic norms" is just errant nonsense.
The EU itself is fundamentally and demonstrably undemocratic both structurally and procedurally. One of it's key stated aims is 'ever closer union', meaning removing powers from democratically elected governments and taking them for itself.
The key political aim of the EU is to provide stable, long-term, centrist policy through avoiding the whims and vagaries of the populace at the ballot box.
The EU is not a defender of democracy or democratic norms. It is a Meritocracy and therefore an enemy to democracy.
If you had said 'a key aim of the EU has been to oppose political extremism in a fractured continent' well then I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.
As for Hungary - it is a democracy. Free elections are held regularly and the population consistently vote in a far right government. Morally we can oppose this but diplomatically the countries of the world must respect this democratic decision. The EU therefore are powerless to do much about it short of counter-productively expelling them from the Union.
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And there we go Tyke.
You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.
You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.
And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.
Do you see the issue I'm having with that?
What clearly escapes you is that actions speak louder than words .
When the England players were celebrating in front of the Hungarian ultras and getting pelted with cups and monkey noises were clearly heard then why didn't they walk off ?
What was stopping them ?
They continued to play the game and then complain afterwards when they had three world cup points in the bag .
Are you seriously suggesting only a black person is allowed to say that ?I
That's what I saw right in front of me , the England players took the knee at the start of the game and when the racism was directed against at least two of the players they did nowt about it .
How much evidence of virtue signalling do you need ?
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So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?
Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.
Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?
After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.
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So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?
Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.
Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?
After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.
So basically kicking out racism and standing up to it only qualifies when it doesn't become difficult .
Like dropping on one knee with a round of applause ringing around the stadium , job done .
To tell the truth I find the whole thing highly frustrating .
Frustrating to see plenty of rattle and very little substance especially when you witness such vile scenes as in Budapest .
You can be sure Wrighty , Rio and Mika will be in Qatar on a good wedge and on our tv sets .
Sterling leading the line up top and Gareth defending the knee taking .
The loss of 6k migrant lives and appalling human rights records will be conveniently brushed under the carpet of course .
The hypocrisy is barely believable .
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So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?
Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.
Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?
After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.
No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….
What fcukin repercussions??
By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”
They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..
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So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?
Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.
Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?
After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.
No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….
What fcukin repercussions??
By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”
They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..
Southgate doing it would send a stronger message.
The Football Association won't accept it.
What's more Southgate has a duty of care towards his players. Missle a are being thrown at them, God knows what it might be. For the players safety they should come off.
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But that would be a white man telling people of colour what to do.
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But that would be a white man telling people of colour what to do.
He's the manager, he tells them what to do all the time.
In this situation he's the responsible person. He is the man who really represents the FA.
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I don’t disagree with you, River. But some folk think that is wrong.
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So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?
Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.
Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?
After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.
No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….
What fcukin repercussions??
By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”
They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..
Southgate doing it would send a stronger message.
The Football Association won't accept it.
What's more Southgate has a duty of care towards his players. Missle a are being thrown at them, God knows what it might be. For the players safety they should come off.
No ya wrong….the black players turn and walk off, …the rest of the team follow suit and the manager applauds them as they leave the field…..the Cameras wouldn’t know where to look….the sheer drama would have the money men quaking, ….
Then if every other national team who experience any form of racial abuse do the same, the game will be brought to its knees,
Now it gets political
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Surely if players start reacting to crowd behaviour it will be the start of a slippery slope? Would it encourage certain spectators to behave in such a way so as to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour?
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Surely if players start reacting to crowd behaviour it will be the start of a slippery slope? Would it encourage certain spectators to behave in such a way so as to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour?
That’s lame!
We are talking about racially abused human beings, not some silly reason to get a game called off!
Gestures need to go beyond the paying lip service…..ACTION,!!!
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Surely if players start reacting to crowd behaviour it will be the start of a slippery slope? Would it encourage certain spectators to behave in such a way so as to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour?
That’s lame!
We are talking about racially abused human beings, not some silly reason to get a game called off!
Gestures need to go beyond the paying lip service…..ACTION,!!!
But it would be an act by people who don't give a f**k about racially abused human beings who would decide to deliberately stop a game that was not going in their favour.
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So the England players should just walk off to make a political point?
Aren't we forgetting they are all young lads, making a career in football? I'd suggest it is very difficult for them to take such dramatic action. They don't know how it would be received by the public, by their clubs, what it would do for their careers. It would be a massive, courageous step.
Maybe Southgate should just walk on the pitch and tell them to walk off? Maybe the manager should take the responsibility away from them and put it firmly on the shoulders of the FA?
After all the repercussions for him would be far less, he's had his career and made his fortune. He doesn't need this.
No !! And thrice NO,
They should have walked off because they were being racially abused…..no politics just a real act ….
What fcukin repercussions??
By walking off they are sending a very clear message to the world “ stamp this shit out or we ALL down tools”
They would be heralded as heroes not vilified by their clubs…..
They are young lads they don't know what the repercussions might be.
For one thing if a young black England player walked off because he was being racially abused, and England went on to lose, then might he not be afraid that English racists might target him for being disloyal?
There is a lot of pressure on young shoulders.
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It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.
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It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.
Absolutely.
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If there was a will at the top, the authorities would give the referee the authority to stop the game and take the players from the field of play while the stadium was cleared and then restart the game and finish it in front of empty stands, therefore punishing the guilty party.
There is no will at the top table for that action, and any team that leaves the field of play will forfeit the points for that game and in future matches would be a target of the same treatment just to be awarded the points by default.
The best alternative is to do exactly what England did the other night, make light of the abuse and whup their arses, a lot of the supporters who left that ground would have thought what a set of b******s that England side is blacks and whites all included they just rubbed our noses in the horse s**t, job done.
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It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.
And who exactly are these people at the top?
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I'll let you do your own research on that Sha66y, you will be old enough to work it out by yourself I hope.
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It appears that most would rather TOLERATE racial abuse as long as they get to pretend to care, take a knee, and get to watch the game…..
If that isn’t an indication of not giving a fcuk about the black guy …..what is???
It appears that there are only a handful on here that think real actions are better than hollow platitudes!
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It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.
You mean the money people at the top of the game who aren't getting racially abused should lead by example .
Yeh good luck with that and why there's a world cup given to Qatar because those at the top are so righteous .
Money , careers and opportunity all come before doing something that can really make an impact .
Something that may be sacrificial to your bank balance and career but be left in no doubt what so ever it doesn't even register with the sacrifices Mandela , Luther King and Malcolm X made .
And you can't even walk off a football field when your racially abused or your teammate is .
Dear me .
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It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.
You mean the money people at the top of the game who aren't getting racially abused should lead by example .
Yeh good luck with that and why there's a world cup given to Qatar because those at the top are so righteous .
Money , careers and opportunity all come before doing something that can really make an impact .
Something that may be sacrificial to your bank balance and career but be left in no doubt what so ever it doesn't even register with the sacrifices Mandela , Luther King and Malcolm X made .
And you can't even walk off a football field when your racially abused or your teammate is .
Dear me .
Too close to the bone that tyke….might force a little integrity …..
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It should be the people at the top leading by example.
Deduct points and make them play home games in a neutral country.
This would soon cost them so much money that the home football associations would have to act or go bankrupt.
You mean the money people at the top of the game who aren't getting racially abused should lead by example .
Yeh good luck with that and why there's a world cup given to Qatar because those at the top are so righteous .
Money , careers and opportunity all come before doing something that can really make an impact .
Something that may be sacrificial to your bank balance and career but be left in no doubt what so ever it doesn't even register with the sacrifices Mandela , Luther King and Malcolm X made .
And you can't even walk off a football field when your racially abused or your teammate is .
Dear me .
Too close to the bone that tyke….might force a little integrity …..
If you don't like my principles I have others .
Should be the Labour luvvies mission statement .
Seriously though I know I'm from another generation but fecking hell I'm totally convinced that if Johnson rolled out the 1990 poll tax tomorrow the best they'd do is throw tennis balls as a protest .
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I didn't see the incidents and wasn't even aware England had played until I saw the media reports in relation to them.
Assuming they were as bad as reported I wish that the England (and Hungary) players had shown the courage to walk off the pitch.
Where such things occur, regardless of what happens ON the pitch, a 5-0 defeat should be awarded to the team with the miscreant supporters. Both a deterrent and sends out a strong message that such behaviour is utterly unacceptable.
That assumes that "democracy" means nothing more than having a vote.
Functioning democracies require far more than that. In particular, strong institutions to hold Governments to account. Orban in Hungary has spent a decade eroding those in Hungary. Everything from an independent judiciary to critical journalism has been massively weakened, to the extent that he was able to pass a law last year effectively giving him personally the power to rule by diktat.
One of the key features of the EU has been to encourage countries previously ruled by dictators to transition to having functioning and strong democratic structures. That has worked spectacularly well from Portugal to Estonia. That is what I mean when I say the EU has supported democracy and prevented countries lapsing into authoritarianism.
There is no way that, if the current Hungary was not an EU member, it would be allowed to join the EU. And the fact that the EU hasn't taken effective action against the Orban regime is a massive failing.
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Do you support blm Tyke?
So I take it that's a no then, unless I missed it.
A show of support developed by black people for black people, non political, from the bottom up which if adopted right around the country at every match would give support to them and show the leadership of every organisation not just football, because football is one of the many many things in a non-white persons life they have to put up with just because of their colour and give them support.
Oh I'd rather not thanks boooooooooooooooooooo
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Do you support blm Tyke?
So I take it that's a no then, unless I missed it.
A show of support developed by black people for black people, non political, from the bottom up which if adopted right around the country at every match would give support to them and show the leadership of every organisation not just football, because football is one of the many many things in a non-white persons life they have to put up with just because of their colour and give them support.
Oh I'd rather not thanks boooooooooooooooooooo
So to join the anti racism stand means you have to embrace the BLM.
Is that what you are telling me ?
So I can't work it out for myself and take the path I choose personally to take whilst finding racism abhorrent .
I have to embrace an American import blowing the critical race theory trumpet just to be on the right side of this thing .
I'm well past fashion accessories Sydney and I'm comfortably in my own skin .
Amazingly they said the less intelligent amongst us fell for the 3 syllables .
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Just tell me in plain English without the histrionics why you can't support something that they have asked people to do, what is the cost to you? It's what they want you to do not the other way around.
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Just tell me in plain English without the histrionics why you can't support something that they have asked people to do, what is the cost to you? It's what they want you to do not the other way around.
It's what they want me to do ?
Wow , I've my own mind on what i support and what i don't .
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Just tell me in plain English without the histrionics why you can't support something that they have asked people to do, what is the cost to you? It's what they want you to do not the other way around.
It's what they want me to do ?
Wow , I've my own mind on what i support and what i don't .
I have my answer thanks Tyke, go to bed
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Just tell me in plain English without the histrionics why you can't support something that they have asked people to do, what is the cost to you? It's what they want you to do not the other way around.
It's what they want me to do ?
Wow , I've my own mind on what i support and what i don't .
I have my answer thanks Tyke, go to bed
You have the answer that exits inside your head Sydney .
There's nothing I can say that will ever change your prejudice .
The same prejudice that claims every Tory or Tory voter is a shytehouse or every brexiter is thick , racist or even both .
It amazes me that those who cry for tolerance find it extremely difficult to be .... Hmmm tolerant .
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''It's what they want me to do ?
Wow , I've my own mind on what i support and what i don't .''
This tyke, says it all, the black minority following centuries of slavery and oppression making the country rich the riches that are not available to all on an equal basis, have asked for your help, everyone's help in supporting them to bring about some sort of equality but you are your own man you make the decisions on how you will help them, it may not be what they want, it may not give them the support they want but it's all you are prepared to offer.
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''It's what they want me to do ?
Wow , I've my own mind on what i support and what i don't .''
This tyke, says it all, the black minority following centuries of slavery and oppression making the country rich the riches that are not available to all on an equal basis, have asked for your help, everyone's help in supporting them to bring about some sort of equality but you are your own man you make the decisions on how you will help them, it may not be what they want, it may not give them the support they want but it's all you are prepared to offer.
So I take your point and at least in my mind you are speaking up on behalf of a US import that has no relevance here in the UK .
Do black people here die at the hands of some PD on a fairly regular basis , no they don't .
Are the problems in the US our problems ?
Does the problems in the US have a voice inside an English football stadium ? ....... Debatable .
Debatable is rather the issue isn't it rather than the prejudice shown by many on the so called modern left today .
If your not a lover of taking the knee at Oakwell your a racist .
If you voted brexit then equally so .
Tolerance , wow who knew ?
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''It's what they want me to do ?
Wow , I've my own mind on what i support and what i don't .''
This tyke, says it all, the black minority following centuries of slavery and oppression making the country rich the riches that are not available to all on an equal basis, have asked for your help, everyone's help in supporting them to bring about some sort of equality but you are your own man you make the decisions on how you will help them, it may not be what they want, it may not give them the support they want but it's all you are prepared to offer.
So I take your point and at least in my mind you are speaking up on behalf of a US import that has no relevance here in the UK .
Do black people here die at the hands of some PD on a fairly regular basis , no they don't .
Are the problems in the US our problems ?
Does the problems in the US have a voice inside an English football stadium ? ....... Debatable .
Debatable is rather the issue isn't it rather than the prejudice shown by many on the so called modern left today .
If your not a lover of taking the knee at Oakwell your a racist .
If you voted brexit then equally so .
Tolerance , wow who knew ?
Yep I know you are your own man tyke.
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''Racism and disorder during England’s win in Hungary was completely preventable''
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/sep/03/racism-and-disorder-during-englands-win-in-hungary-was-completely-preventable-fifa-uefa
We can of course walk and chew gum, we can and should support protest about the lack of action by the FA, FIFA and any other organisation but we can also support our friends neighbours and players at a local level.
I'm an individual oi!
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''Racism and disorder during England’s win in Hungary was completely preventable''
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/sep/03/racism-and-disorder-during-englands-win-in-hungary-was-completely-preventable-fifa-uefa
We can of course walk and chew gum, we can and should support protest about the lack of action by the FA, FIFA and any other organisation but we can also support our friends neighbours and players at a local level.
I'm an individual oi!
So you continue to shift this thing towards the authorities .
The authorities who if the truth be told couldn't give a feck as long as they keep their well paid jobs and the money keeps rolling in that clearly in today's world is the only credibility they need .
The players and management seem to be somewhere between a collective and individual aspiration and aren't particularly great at both .
A sign of the time's we live in perhaps and as good a conflicted stance you are probably going to see.
Millionaire individualism seeks collectivety ?
And an authority that seeks money above moral responsibility makes this gig a bit of a challenge .
Excuse me if I don't buy in to this in a way you find acceptable Sydney .
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ooh, ark at im
''So you continue to shift this thing towards the authorities''
Huodini of the forum that will drag the labour party the top of the organisation anything lying around that you think someone maybe distracted by and throw in a few insults here and there, but you are your own man and no one can ask anything of you.
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I didn't see the incidents and wasn't even aware England had played until I saw the media reports in relation to them.
Assuming they were as bad as reported I wish that the England (and Hungary) players had shown the courage to walk off the pitch.
Where such things occur, regardless of what happens ON the pitch, a 5-0 defeat should be awarded to the team with the miscreant supporters. Both a deterrent and sends out a strong message that such behaviour is utterly unacceptable.
That assumes that "democracy" means nothing more than having a vote.
Functioning democracies require far more than that. In particular, strong institutions to hold Governments to account. Orban in Hungary has spent a decade eroding those in Hungary. Everything from an independent judiciary to critical journalism has been massively weakened, to the extent that he was able to pass a law last year effectively giving him personally the power to rule by diktat.
One of the key features of the EU has been to encourage countries previously ruled by dictators to transition to having functioning and strong democratic structures. That has worked spectacularly well from Portugal to Estonia. That is what I mean when I say the EU has supported democracy and prevented countries lapsing into authoritarianism.
There is no way that, if the current Hungary was not an EU member, it would be allowed to join the EU. And the fact that the EU hasn't taken effective action against the Orban regime is a massive failing.
Thank you for clarifying. I agree that the EU has done massive and important work in building up robust political and judicial institutions and 'checks and balances' in many member states. I would just disagree with you on semantics only then given the undemocratic nature of the EU itself. What it gives in terms of democratic legitimacy with one hand (the level given depending on the recent history of the country) it takes with the other through its centralisation of powers.
Of course it is possible to have highly modern, robust political institutions outside of a democracy. The EU itself being the most obvious example.
At the most fundamental level democracy does mean allowing the people to vote in and out their political leaders. Something Hungary has, in spite of its current governments behaviour, but lamentably the EU does not.
I wouldn't disagree that the EU has failed to a degree with Hungary but wouldn't be as critical as you are. Would Hungary remain a democracy, in terms of having free elections, were it to fall out of the EU? I suspect not so anything the EU does must be counter productive. Throwing Hungary out of the EU evidently so. Putting in harsh sanctions potentially encouraging Hungary's departure whilst punishing a country for following the 'political will' of its electorate - manna from heaven for eurosceptics throughout the continent.
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I'm happy to accept that membership of the EU entails a degree of loss of sovereignty, but the argument that it means countries become significantly undemocratic, compared to the recent and medium past history of Europe really doesn't stand up.
On voting=democracy, if that were the case, Belarus and Russia would be functioning democracies.
The Freedom House research institute ranks countries by their level of political freedom. Essentially how free and fair their democratic processes are. Hungary stands out as having the lowest score in the EU by far. It is on a par with Nepal and the Dominican Republic.
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I'm happy to accept that membership of the EU entails a degree of loss of sovereignty, but the argument that it means countries become significantly undemocratic, compared to the recent and medium past history of Europe really doesn't stand up.
On voting=democracy, if that were the case, Belarus and Russia would be functioning democracies.
The Freedom House research institute ranks countries by their level of political freedom. Essentially how free and fair their democratic processes are. Hungary stands out as having the lowest score in the EU by far. It is on a par with Nepal and the Dominican Republic.
I don't disagree with anything you have written here. I haven't argued that countries have become less democratic under the EU as they were behind the Iron Curtain for instance - that would be nonsense. I agree membership of the EU involves a loss of sovereignty. This for me would be acceptable were those in charge at the EU democratically accountable themselves.
Saying the current diminished level of democratic accountability in a nation is acceptable because it is better, even significantly so, than what has come before doesn't wash with me however.
The elections in Belarus and Russia are not free. They are fixed and rigged with opponents crushed, limited electoral choice, no free press etc etc. Elections in Hungary are free - yes comparatively - with genuine alternatives on the ballot paper who are free to campaign.
I don't doubt either that Hungary ranks low compared to the rest of the EU in terms of democratic freedoms either. Unfortunately, though I agree the EU should shoulder some criticism for this, as explained previously I think they're in a bit of a Catch-22 position in terms of doing anything about it
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And there we go Tyke.
You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.
You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.
And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.
Do you see the issue I'm having with that?
What clearly escapes you is that actions speak louder than words .
When the England players were celebrating in front of the Hungarian ultras and getting pelted with cups and monkey noises were clearly heard then why didn't they walk off ?
What was stopping them ?
They continued to play the game and then complain afterwards when they had three world cup points in the bag .
Are you seriously suggesting only a black person is allowed to say that ?I
That's what I saw right in front of me , the England players took the knee at the start of the game and when the racism was directed against at least two of the players they did nowt about it .
How much evidence of virtue signalling do you need ?
The players walked off 2 years ago in Bulgaria. Nothing happened, nothing changed!
Maybe they’ve thought what’s the point in walking off,
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And there we go Tyke.
You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.
You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.
And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.
Do you see the issue I'm having with that?
What clearly escapes you is that actions speak louder than words .
When the England players were celebrating in front of the Hungarian ultras and getting pelted with cups and monkey noises were clearly heard then why didn't they walk off ?
What was stopping them ?
They continued to play the game and then complain afterwards when they had three world cup points in the bag .
Are you seriously suggesting only a black person is allowed to say that ?I
That's what I saw right in front of me , the England players took the knee at the start of the game and when the racism was directed against at least two of the players they did nowt about it .
How much evidence of virtue signalling do you need ?
The players walked off 2 years ago in Bulgaria. Nothing happened, nothing changed!
Maybe they’ve thought what’s the point in walking off,
They stood at the side of the pitch in Bulgaria I'll give you that as per the protocol whilst the PA system warned the racists .
The racists eventually left and the match was completed .
So they did something about it and the racists left .
Not ideal by any means but something was achieved that night in Bulgaria .
They did absolutely nothing in Budapest .
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And there we go Tyke.
You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.
You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.
And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.
Do you see the issue I'm having with that?
What clearly escapes you is that actions speak louder than words .
When the England players were celebrating in front of the Hungarian ultras and getting pelted with cups and monkey noises were clearly heard then why didn't they walk off ?
What was stopping them ?
They continued to play the game and then complain afterwards when they had three world cup points in the bag .
Are you seriously suggesting only a black person is allowed to say that ?I
That's what I saw right in front of me , the England players took the knee at the start of the game and when the racism was directed against at least two of the players they did nowt about it .
How much evidence of virtue signalling do you need ?
The players walked off 2 years ago in Bulgaria. Nothing happened, nothing changed!
Maybe they’ve thought what’s the point in walking off,
They stood at the side of the pitch in Bulgaria I'll give you that as per the protocol whilst the PA system warned the racists .
The racists eventually left and the match was completed .
So they did something about it and the racists left .
Not ideal by any means but something was achieved that night in Bulgaria .
They did absolutely nothing in Budapest .
If you listened to the interviews neither Kane nor southgate had heard the abuse.
It was the tv reporter who was in the crowd who informed both Kane and southgate of it after the game
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And there we go Tyke.
You, a white man are deciding how black men should respond to racist abuse.
You conclude that because they responded in the way they did, they don't really care about racism, they are more interested in 3 points.
And you conclude from that that when they DO display their feelings about racism, that is virtue signalling.
Do you see the issue I'm having with that?
What clearly escapes you is that actions speak louder than words .
When the England players were celebrating in front of the Hungarian ultras and getting pelted with cups and monkey noises were clearly heard then why didn't they walk off ?
What was stopping them ?
They continued to play the game and then complain afterwards when they had three world cup points in the bag .
Are you seriously suggesting only a black person is allowed to say that ?I
That's what I saw right in front of me , the England players took the knee at the start of the game and when the racism was directed against at least two of the players they did nowt about it .
How much evidence of virtue signalling do you need ?
The players walked off 2 years ago in Bulgaria. Nothing happened, nothing changed!
Maybe they’ve thought what’s the point in walking off,
Then what’s the point of taking the knee and crying about being racially abused…nothing happens , nothing changes!
They are in a position now to make things change under the current climate……that’s if they really are bothered about change!
They walk off and hold a press conference expressing that they will not play for their country ever again if it isn’t sorted…..trust me that would send a very clear message to all BAME footballers to do the same…
However if they don’t become proactive and are only prepared to cry after the event, then it will never go away, ever!
Shit…..or get off the pot!
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Nothing will change while good people do nothing
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Nothing will change while good people do nothing
Nothing will change until those directly affected do something instead of worrying about their fcukin personal profile….and expecting everyone else to make a stand for them……… if ya pissed, stay pissed, get angry …but DO SOMETHING,!
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Nothing will change while good people do nothing
Nothing will change until those directly affected do something instead of worrying about their fcukin personal profile….and expecting everyone else to make a stand for them……… if ya pissed, stay pissed, get angry …but DO SOMETHING,!
Sounds like you know more about what they want than they do shaggy
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
I have booed the racist, divisive taking of the knee at The Den along with Mahlon Romeo's black power salute, which is the equivalent of a Nazi salute, but he seems to have got away with that.
All this rubbish causes divisions where previously little existed.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
That, Hound, is a great question.
The fact is that apart from saying and believing racism is wrong and should be eradicated, I don’t think I have actually ‘done’ anything about it.
If I were a professional footballer I imagine I would take the knee if my team mates did and not take the knee if they didn’t.
Quite shameful really.
Also, I would support England pulling out of Qatar but I f they don’t, I shall be cheering them on to win the World Cup.
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Someone on our neighbourhood forum was asking if anyone knew a Black bin cleaner.
Equality for all I say!
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Nothing will change while good people do nothing
Nothing will change until those directly affected do something instead of worrying about their fcukin personal profile….and expecting everyone else to make a stand for them……… if ya pissed, stay pissed, get angry …but DO SOMETHING,!
Sounds like you know more about what they want than they do shaggy
I don’t know more than them , but I’m damned sure that if I had their finances I would be in a position to say enough is enough……..and mean it!
I hate fcukin cowards, and all these bame’s want me to help their cause but do bugger all themselves….
If racism is a problem then what are those being abused doing about it.. ?
And don’t say whining once a microphone appears, I want to see positive affirmative action from those affected so I can be serious in my support of it……otherwise I see those with the tools to force change …….not forcing change..
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
Nobody can actually answer that question hound , because racism is something that happens somewhere else and only becomes apparent when we get told about it…., I’ve never personally witnessed any form of racial abuse on home soil,…I’ve heard work colleagues using unsavoury language regarding BAME’s and I have in truth told them they are dumbshit red pecker racists, but most of their points are just personal opinions, and I have to recognise that though my opinions do differ…
I was subjected to acceptable personal racial abuse for 3 years and 4 months in Saudi and I thought it was rather boring and tiresome, even though my job was on the line every day if I didn’t accept it…..
That’s probably why I get angry about this whole subject ……
Oh yeah I forget…..I strung up a mob of Hartlepudlians for hanging a Monkey once!
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
Nobody can actually answer that question hound , because racism is something that happens somewhere else and only becomes apparent when we get told about it…., I’ve never personally witnessed any form of racial abuse on home soil,…I’ve heard work colleagues using unsavoury language regarding BAME’s and I have in truth told them they are dumbshit red pecker racists, but most of their points are just personal opinions, and I have to recognise that though my opinions do differ…
I was subjected to acceptable personal racial abuse for 3 years and 4 months in Saudi and I thought it was rather boring and tiresome, even though my job was on the line every day if I didn’t accept it…..
That’s probably why I get angry about this whole subject ……
Oh yeah I forget…..I strung up a mob of Hartlepudlians for hanging a Monkey once!
Well, AL said he has booed the racists so he did answer the question.
It is a genuine question too, no malice intended.
Belton said he hasn’t actually done anything but said what he would probably do if he was a footballer.
It will be interesting to see what others might have done to address racism but it has been very quiet so far given how strong some posters feelings have been about it.
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Hound, I have played sport cricket and football squash etc with a host of different nationalities, and worked with a host of too many to list foreign nationals in the oil, mining and engineering business for the German company Thyssens.
Never had a problem with any, but lot's of laughs.
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I know you well enough to know that you aren’t racist despite what some posters have said.
However, to answer the question, have you actually done anything to try to stamp out racism.
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Hound, I have played sport cricket and football squash etc with a host of different nationalities, and worked with a host of too many to list foreign nationals in the oil, mining and engineering business for the German company Thyssens.
Never had a problem with any, but lot's of laughs.
That's kind of the point of all this though isn't it , the "I've never had a problem with anyone '' it's not your view point that matters as it's not your experience that's up for discussion. I don't mean this as a dig at you , I've no idea who you are , your background or anything. From this post though you as many of us are me included are middle ,later aged white blokes so chances are we wouldn't have experienced racism or really noticed if we were inadvertently offending. It's the conversation that goes on when we've left the room that we might not be aware of, and a millon others that it is being protested about . Honestly not having a go, I genuinely doubt many people are truly determinedly racist and can't see anyone who support a modern football club like ours could be
-
So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
I spent a year of my life in Bosnia helping to prevent the Racist Nationalist Serbs killing Bosnians through ethnic cleansing. Does this count?
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
I spent a year of my life in Bosnia helping to prevent the Racist Nationalist Serbs killing Bosnians through ethnic cleansing. Does this count?
It does indeed NR.
I read a book a few years ago from someone in a similar position to you.
It was very harrowing.
Not all racism is white v black.
(Or for balance, black v white).
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I’ve often said I’d like to go back some time.Sarajevo would probably be quite nice now, Mostar is stunning, prob even better now they have rebuilt the famous old bridge. Sarajevo has its own ski resort which I’ve always fancied. Cheap skiing, provided you can dodge the minefields . It’s a beautiful country but the people have real issues. Neighbours killing each other over which flag they hang outside their house.
On sundays we used to see people with pigs strung up in their front garden on diy wooden tripods.still alive and squealing when they cut their throat. We later discovered that the Orthodox Serbs living in Bosnia used to do this to piss off the Bosnian Muslim who lived down the road. A bit like turning up to your local mosque and hanging a dead pig head on the fence.
The most harrowing thing I ever saw was in Bosnia. And I’ve seen some things in my time, but it Sticks with me even to this day. Driving along one day I saw a dog at the side of the road. It was alive, barely, grossly emaciated, and it was chowing down on the exposed inards of another dog, this one not so lucky of course. Thing is, I’ve asked myself if I should have stopped and done something, but at the time I remembered thinking, at least he is getting fed. The country was wash with abandoned stray dogs. I think I left some of my psyche back in that place. And don’t get me talking about Srebrenica, where I went too. Just awful .
People bleat about racism in this country, perceived and otherwise. They don’t know the half of it .
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TFE, I never set out to be a problem for them either, after about seven years one of the iranians became one of my team leaders.
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''The ‘Some of My Best Friends Are Black’ Defense
It’s a myth that proximity to blackness immunizes white people from doing racist things''
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/sunday-review/ralph-northam-blackface-friends.html
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NR.
You have my greatest respect for having dealt with that. An ex-colleague had been in Bosnia and he recounted similar horrors.
That was the enduring story of bestiality in Europe in the 20th century. So many ethnic and cultural groups and people with different outlooks living on ancient fault lines.
The things the Croat fascist militias did to Serb prisoners in WWII are as horrific as anyone could imagine. Decapitation with saws. Boiling alive. Mass clubbing to death.
In Spain in the civil war there were similar atrocities on both sides. And of course the Holocaust committed by one of the most civilised nations mankind had ever produced. And we weren't whiter than white, we just committed our war crimes from 20,000 feet over Dresden.
That is the context of what drove the idea of the EU. To bind people together and get them to see that their future was in trading with each other, not butchering each other. I'm still stunned how quickly we forget what happens in Europe when nations and people are set against each other.
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I’ve often said I’d like to go back some time.Sarajevo would probably be quite nice now, Mostar is stunning, prob even better now they have rebuilt the famous old bridge. Sarajevo has its own ski resort which I’ve always fancied. Cheap skiing, provided you can dodge the minefields . It’s a beautiful country but the people have real issues. Neighbours killing each other over which flag they hang outside their house.
On sundays we used to see people with pigs strung up in their front garden on diy wooden tripods.still alive and squealing when they cut their throat. We later discovered that the Orthodox Serbs living in Bosnia used to do this to piss off the Bosnian Muslim who lived down the road. A bit like turning up to your local mosque and hanging a dead pig head on the fence.
The most harrowing thing I ever saw was in Bosnia. And I’ve seen some things in my time, but it Sticks with me even to this day. Driving along one day I saw a dog at the side of the road. It was alive, barely, grossly emaciated, and it was chowing down on the exposed inards of another dog, this one not so lucky of course. Thing is, I’ve asked myself if I should have stopped and done something, but at the time I remembered thinking, at least he is getting fed. The country was wash with abandoned stray dogs. I think I left some of my psyche back in that place. And don’t get me talking about Srebrenica, where I went too. Just awful .
People bleat about racism in this country, perceived and otherwise. They don’t know the half of it .
You are correct of course about the racism and the atrocities but it doesn't excuse racism anywhere else.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
So where do you stand in all this hound? genuine question, unless of course I missed your answer where you detailed your support for those at the receiving end of racism.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
So where do you stand in all this hound? genuine question, unless of course I missed your answer where you detailed your support for those at the receiving end of racism.
I just knew you would ask me that question without bothering to answer mine.
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''The ‘Some of My Best Friends Are Black’ Defense
It’s a myth that proximity to blackness immunizes white people from doing racist things''
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/sunday-review/ralph-northam-blackface-friends.html
That link is hidden behind a paywall.
However I think the word “some” should be inserted between immunises and white in your post.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
So where do you stand in all this hound? genuine question, unless of course I missed your answer where you detailed your support for those at the receiving end of racism.
I just knew you would ask me that question without bothering to answer mine.
I was looking for you had answered your own question hound.
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''The ‘Some of My Best Friends Are Black’ Defense
It’s a myth that proximity to blackness immunizes white people from doing racist things''
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/sunday-review/ralph-northam-blackface-friends.html
That link is hidden behind a paywall.
However I think the word “some” should be inserted between immunises and white in your post.
Then you should write to the Author and tell them.
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''The ‘Some of My Best Friends Are Black’ Defense
It’s a myth that proximity to blackness immunizes white people from doing racist things''
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/sunday-review/ralph-northam-blackface-friends.html
That link is hidden behind a paywall.
However I think the word “some” should be inserted between immunises and white in your post.
Then you should write to the Author and tell them.
Here's one that isn't paywalled
''"I'm not racist, I have black friends" (variant: "Some of my best friends are black"[1][2]) is a tu quoque fallacy which is often used by white people in an attempt to justify their claim that they are not racist towards black people (especially in contexts referring to African Americans). The phrase, which gained popularity in the mid-2010s, has since sparked many internet memes and debates over racial attitudes.[3][4][5] Its use in a discussion related to the election of Donald Trump as US president in 2016, on the US television show Black-ish,[6] led to widespread discussion in the media of the "old trope".[7]
A 2004 study in Basic and Applied Social Psychology listed the phrase as a "common [claim of] innocence by association".[8] A 2011 study published in the Journal of Black Studies suggested that African Americans were rarely impressed by whites claiming to have "Black friends", and that the claim was more likely to make African Americans think that the person making it was in fact more, not less, prejudiced.[9] The phrase is cited as an instance of "resistance to antiracist thinking",[10] and some suggestions for dismantling the logic of the phrase include "it is like saying there is no such thing as sexism because we all have a close friend or family member who is a woman".[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_not_racist,_I_have_black_friends
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I can't help the way you act and behave Syd, in fact I rate some of your thoughts and writing as hate and racial against people like me. You take a dislike to people on assumptions of how you perceive people, and from your assumptions you state on here of people I know personally you are not that good at it.
Most people I have met are the better for knowing, you just jump to conclusions if they express an opinion on a subject outside your narrow world, that I agree is an assumption on my part but what you portray to me.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s I would regularly attend anti racism demonstrations in London. These could be very hairy to say the least. The NF would often organise counter demonstrations on the same day & on the same route. Usually these were actually larger than our marches! Violence would often break out and, though I could look after myself, they were scary times.
All this did was to strengthen my resolve that racism has no place in a progressive society. I thought then, and I think now, how crazy it is to judge someone by the colour of their skin?
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I can't help the way you act and behave Syd, in fact I rate some of your thoughts and writing as hate and racial against people like me. You take a dislike to people on assumptions of how you perceive people, and from your assumptions you state on here of people I know personally you are not that good at it.
Most people I have met are the better for knowing, you just jump to conclusions if they express an opinion on a subject outside your narrow world, that I agree is an assumption on my part but what you portray to me.
I don't hate you at all selby, I feel sorry for you on occasions though.
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Funny old thread this….
I’m white late 50s ex military, …… I mention that I was racially abused every day for 3 years and 4 months ….every single day!!
and nobody bats an eyelid?…funny old topic is racism and abuse!
So seems as we are only really bothered about blacks and monkey chants, let me put some meat on this particular bone…….
I had 4 Saudi ex military working under me at a military installation, and every day a copy of the Quran was placed in my rucksack, and every day I returned it with a small bow and no words…..I wasn’t the only white-eye that received this drip fed life threatening abuse….and that’s why I knew how to deal with it,( throw away or destroy a Quran is very punishable by death)…
I handed in my resignation and left half way through my Al Salam contract…..
I believe now have a greater understanding of what it feels like to go to work knowing one wrong word or action could potentially land me in a bad place…..
Carry on! …lol
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Funny old thread this….
I’m white late 50s ex military, …… I mention that I was racially abused every day for 3 years and 4 months ….every single day!!
and nobody bats an eyelid?…funny old topic is racism and abuse!
So seems as we are only really bothered about blacks and monkey chants, let me put some meat on this particular bone…….
I had 4 Saudi ex military working under me at a military installation, and every day a copy of the Quran was placed in my rucksack, and every day I returned it with a small bow and no words…..I wasn’t the only white-eye that received this drip fed life threatening abuse….and that’s why I knew how to deal with it,( throw away or destroy a Quran is very punishable by death)…
I handed in my resignation and left half way through my Al Salam contract…..
I believe now have a greater understanding of what it feels like to go to work knowing one wrong word or action could potentially land me in a bad place…..
Carry on! …lol
The religion of peace and understanding.
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Funny old thread this….
I’m white late 50s ex military, …… I mention that I was racially abused every day for 3 years and 4 months ….every single day!!
and nobody bats an eyelid?…funny old topic is racism and abuse!
So seems as we are only really bothered about blacks and monkey chants, let me put some meat on this particular bone…….
I had 4 Saudi ex military working under me at a military installation, and every day a copy of the Quran was placed in my rucksack, and every day I returned it with a small bow and no words…..I wasn’t the only white-eye that received this drip fed life threatening abuse….and that’s why I knew how to deal with it,( throw away or destroy a Quran is very punishable by death)…
I handed in my resignation and left half way through my Al Salam contract…..
I believe now have a greater understanding of what it feels like to go to work knowing one wrong word or action could potentially land me in a bad place…..
Carry on! …lol
You should not have to have suffered this, I'll take a knee for you.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s I would regularly attend anti racism demonstrations in London. These could be very hairy to say the least. The NF would often organise counter demonstrations on the same day & on the same route. Usually these were actually larger than our marches! Violence would often break out and, though I could look after myself, they were scary times.
All this did was to strengthen my resolve that racism has no place in a progressive society. I thought then, and I think now, how crazy it is to judge someone by the colour of their skin?
Credit to you, Herbert, for actually doing something, albeit 40 years ago.
We could all actually do something couldn’t we? But it’s clear that the vast majority of us just wish racism wasn’t a thing, without doing anything meaningful to stop it being a thing.
It would be interesting to see everyone on this board answer Hound’s question, but I suspect a lot of the more opinionated supporters of taking a knee and who vilify those who don’t agree with some elements of BLM, won’t have much of an answer to give.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s I would regularly attend anti racism demonstrations in London. These could be very hairy to say the least. The NF would often organise counter demonstrations on the same day & on the same route. Usually these were actually larger than our marches! Violence would often break out and, though I could look after myself, they were scary times.
All this did was to strengthen my resolve that racism has no place in a progressive society. I thought then, and I think now, how crazy it is to judge someone by the colour of their skin?
Credit to you, Herbert, for actually doing something, albeit 40 years ago.
We could all actually do something couldn’t we? But it’s clear that the vast majority of us just wish racism wasn’t a thing, without doing anything meaningful to stop it being a thing.
It would be interesting to see everyone on this board answer Hound’s question, but I suspect a lot of the more opinionated supporters of taking a knee and who vilify those who don’t agree with some elements of BLM, won’t have much of an answer to give.
Quite right Belton. What I would say is that the marches and protests that I was part of probably didn’t change the opinion of one single racist. I believe it all boils down to education. Nobody is born racist after all. Over the years I’ve spoken to people who were, and in occasional cases still are, racists. They have a warped view of life that no demonstration will change. In a nutshell, their lives a shit and they blame people with different colour skin who have absolutely no influence on their lives at all. Absolutely crazy, but all down to education.
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Funny old thread this….
I’m white late 50s ex military, …… I mention that I was racially abused every day for 3 years and 4 months ….every single day!!
and nobody bats an eyelid?…funny old topic is racism and abuse!
So seems as we are only really bothered about blacks and monkey chants, let me put some meat on this particular bone…….
I had 4 Saudi ex military working under me at a military installation, and every day a copy of the Quran was placed in my rucksack, and every day I returned it with a small bow and no words…..I wasn’t the only white-eye that received this drip fed life threatening abuse….and that’s why I knew how to deal with it,( throw away or destroy a Quran is very punishable by death)…
I handed in my resignation and left half way through my Al Salam contract…..
I believe now have a greater understanding of what it feels like to go to work knowing one wrong word or action could potentially land me in a bad place…..
Carry on! …lol
I understand this. Over the years I’ve witnessed racism across the spectrum. It’s not just white on black. There are areas of London that I wouldn’t fancy going down, simply because I’m white.
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I would think that most have HA, when I was growing up I thought most of our problems would be sorted, why are we still hearing the same stories the same reports?
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I think a few on here who do know me would find it quite funny that you feel sorry for me,anyway thanks for the thoughts, but I can assure you as far as I am concerned there is no need.
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So, what has anyone on this forum actually done to help stamp out racism.
Genuine question chaps.
Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s I would regularly attend anti racism demonstrations in London. These could be very hairy to say the least. The NF would often organise counter demonstrations on the same day & on the same route. Usually these were actually larger than our marches! Violence would often break out and, though I could look after myself, they were scary times.
All this did was to strengthen my resolve that racism has no place in a progressive society. I thought then, and I think now, how crazy it is to judge someone by the colour of their skin?
HA, you have my respect for doing what you did sir.
You did your bit but as you say, it probably hasn’t made one iota of difference with regards to changing the mind of some people.
As you also said, racism isn’t just white on black and I have already touched on that in an earlier post.
Thanks for your sensible response to my question
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I’ve often said I’d like to go back some time.Sarajevo would probably be quite nice now, Mostar is stunning, prob even better now they have rebuilt the famous old bridge. Sarajevo has its own ski resort which I’ve always fancied. Cheap skiing, provided you can dodge the minefields . It’s a beautiful country but the people have real issues. Neighbours killing each other over which flag they hang outside their house.
On sundays we used to see people with pigs strung up in their front garden on diy wooden tripods.still alive and squealing when they cut their throat. We later discovered that the Orthodox Serbs living in Bosnia used to do this to piss off the Bosnian Muslim who lived down the road. A bit like turning up to your local mosque and hanging a dead pig head on the fence.
The most harrowing thing I ever saw was in Bosnia. And I’ve seen some things in my time, but it Sticks with me even to this day. Driving along one day I saw a dog at the side of the road. It was alive, barely, grossly emaciated, and it was chowing down on the exposed inards of another dog, this one not so lucky of course. Thing is, I’ve asked myself if I should have stopped and done something, but at the time I remembered thinking, at least he is getting fed. The country was wash with abandoned stray dogs. I think I left some of my psyche back in that place. And don’t get me talking about Srebrenica, where I went too. Just awful .
People bleat about racism in this country, perceived and otherwise. They don’t know the half of it .
You are correct of course about the racism and the atrocities but it doesn't excuse racism anywhere else.
I wasn’t excusing racism.
we live in a country where brewer Greene King has decided to rename a centuries old pub because it called The Black Boy.
Historians claim black boy is a ref to King Charles and was a name given to pubs and taverns by his supporters during the English civil war. Absolutely no racist history to this pubs name , and others with the identical name. The pub sign has a black horse on it which some locals consider to be the meaning around the name. Ie the boy, is the horse. And the official consensus is there is no clear knowledge around the naming of these pubs. But because there now exists a perception, well, the rest you know.
Greene King are worried the name has “racist connotations “ so it’s going to be renamed The Shinfield Arms.
What next, Black Beauty?
blackboards?
The use of the term black sheep ?
Black balled. ?
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I wasn't implying you were excusing racism, but I can see how you might have thought that.
-
Funny old thread this….
I’m white late 50s ex military, …… I mention that I was racially abused every day for 3 years and 4 months ….every single day!!
and nobody bats an eyelid?…funny old topic is racism and abuse!
So seems as we are only really bothered about blacks and monkey chants, let me put some meat on this particular bone…….
I had 4 Saudi ex military working under me at a military installation, and every day a copy of the Quran was placed in my rucksack, and every day I returned it with a small bow and no words…..I wasn’t the only white-eye that received this drip fed life threatening abuse….and that’s why I knew how to deal with it,( throw away or destroy a Quran is very punishable by death)…
I handed in my resignation and left half way through my Al Salam contract…..
I believe now have a greater understanding of what it feels like to go to work knowing one wrong word or action could potentially land me in a bad place…..
Carry on! …lol
You should not have to have suffered this, I'll take a knee for you.
Can I ask you how it feels to have someone else decide how to deal with your pain shaggy?
Added: for 3 years 4 months you were tormented with a book, imagine how you would feel if your forebears were mentally abused and tortured for the whole of their lives, if they managed to see their whole lives through that is and then you came along and you got some of the same treatment and were ignored for decades in a so called civilised democracy where someone that abused people became PM?