Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Bentley Bullet on October 27, 2021, 11:45:21 pm

Title: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 27, 2021, 11:45:21 pm
Many years ago I worked with a lad who never bought any fags and cadged them off me all the time. Eventually, I snapped and suggested that he started buying his own. His reaction was to call ME a tight Kitson!
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 28, 2021, 12:02:49 am
And you've never gotten over it ....
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: BigH on October 28, 2021, 07:24:05 am
Many years ago I worked with a lad who never bought any fags and cadged them off me all the time. Eventually, I snapped and suggested that he started buying his own. His reaction was to call ME a tight Kitson!
Wasn't called Boris was he...
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 28, 2021, 08:45:53 am
Many years ago I worked with a lad who never bought any fags and cadged them off me all the time. Eventually, I snapped and suggested that he started buying his own. His reaction was to call ME a tight Kitson!

I used to know a lad who was laid off twice in a year. There was over 1 million on the dole at the time and he struggled to find work for a long while. Fortunately, the state was able to step in and help him and his family keep their heads above water until he was able to find another job. He was then able to provide support for others in a similar situation through his taxes.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 28, 2021, 08:48:12 am
A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 28, 2021, 08:51:14 am
A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.

A good Socialist is someone who doesn’t mind supporting others less fortunate via a fair and equal tax system Selby!
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 28, 2021, 08:56:31 am
  A good socialist is someone who supports that thinking Herbert, and objects to others wasting it, and ending up in someone else's pocket rather than on projects that benefit the whole of society.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 28, 2021, 08:59:33 am
A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.

Do you live by your political faith selby? do you drive on roads paid for by the masses, do you ring the police if you have a problem with oiks or do you call your private security contractor and so much more, tories are phonies, look how quickly they resort to socialism when it gets a bit hard.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: DonnyOsmond on October 28, 2021, 09:57:39 am
Depends on what you define by socialism. As socialism is the government controlling the means of production and distribution. However, if we're just talking about a welfare state/social democracy then how can people be against:
*Free healthcare, so that anyone can be treated no matter what there bank balance is, you don't have to choose monthly between your heart pills or your diabetes medication like in the US. That isn't just propping up people who don't want to work, if there's a financial crash tomorrow and some big companies go under it means people can still have life saving operations without losing their family homes.
*Good education for all. A decent education shouldn't depend on your parents bank balance. A kid who grows up in the high rise flats in Balby shouldn't be disadvantaged in comparison to Jacob Rees-Moggs kids.
*Reduced homelessness. People shouldn't be left to live on the street, simple as that. It would also make places like Doncaster town centre a lot more attractive!


And countries such as the Nordic countries with their high wage, high tax economy show it works well. They also appear top of the World Happiness Index, so I guess there is better ways to believe an economy should be run then based on a tongue in cheek comment by the PM of 40 year ago.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: belton rover on October 28, 2021, 10:23:55 am
I reckon Sydney must be a socialist judging by the amount of times he gets publicly owned.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 28, 2021, 12:00:37 pm
  I love the way I am constantly brought into your and Billy's  analogies Syd, I must have made a bigger impression on you than you have on me,I only think of you both when I have an itch.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 28, 2021, 12:08:31 pm
Socialism is far from perfect. However, done correctly, I find it far more preferable to an open capitalist culture that creates such a wide gulf in living quality and standards.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 28, 2021, 12:09:48 pm
  I love the way I am constantly brought into your and Billy's  analogies Syd, I must have made a bigger impression on you than you have on me,I only think of you both when I have an itch.

My pleasure selby and no charge, try lidocaine.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 28, 2021, 12:28:21 pm
I reckon Sydney must be a socialist judging by the amount of times he gets publicly owned.

BB most definitely is, he put me on his socialist.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 28, 2021, 12:47:54 pm
 You slap some Sloan's Liniment on Syd that will liven you up.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: wilts rover on October 28, 2021, 12:49:42 pm
You either prefer equality or you prefer inequality.

And you can be sure that the people who prefer inequality ain't never going to help you.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 28, 2021, 01:06:50 pm
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

Socialism is guilty of a fatal conceit: It believes its system can make better decisions for the people than they can for themselves.

Socialism has failed in every country in which it has been tried.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 28, 2021, 01:09:01 pm
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

Socialism is guilty of a fatal conceit: It believes its system can make better decisions for the people than they can for themselves.

Socialism has failed in every country in which it has been tried.

Like Scandinavia?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 28, 2021, 01:11:18 pm
Scandinavian countries have perhaps always had a socialist ethos. I’m talking about countries that have tried it since ww2.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 28, 2021, 01:28:36 pm
Post ww2, three decades of socialism in the uk left us on the verge of being an economic dustbin on the global scale. The govt owned all majority industry such as auto and steel. Crushingly high tax rates on income and capital. Much of housing govt owned
Trade unions spending all their funds on political objectives such as controlling the Labour Party. . From 1950 to 1975, the U.K.’s investment and productivity record was the worst of any major industrial country. Trade-union demands increased the size of the public sector and public expenditures to 59 percent of GDP. Wage and benefits demands by organized labor led to continual strikes that paralyzed transportation and production. But workers were happy I suppose stood by their burning braziers day after day were they? The winter of 1975.piles of rubbish and rats in the street. Bodies unburied.
This what socialism looks like.

Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 28, 2021, 01:29:19 pm
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

Socialism is guilty of a fatal conceit: It believes its system can make better decisions for the people than they can for themselves.

Socialism has failed in every country in which it has been tried.

France had a Socialist Government throughout the 80’s and much of the 90’s and didn’t do too bad. The UK had a Socialist Government in the 60’s and prospered quite well.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 28, 2021, 01:58:42 pm
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Filo on October 28, 2021, 02:00:58 pm
Post ww2, three decades of socialism in the uk left us on the verge of being an economic dustbin on the global scale. The govt owned all majority industry such as auto and steel. Crushingly high tax rates on income and capital. Much of housing govt owned
Trade unions spending all their funds on political objectives such as controlling the Labour Party. . From 1950 to 1975, the U.K.’s investment and productivity record was the worst of any major industrial country. Trade-union demands increased the size of the public sector and public expenditures to 59 percent of GDP. Wage and benefits demands by organized labor led to continual strikes that paralyzed transportation and production. But workers were happy I suppose stood by their burning braziers day after day were they? The winter of 1975.piles of rubbish and rats in the street. Bodies unburied.
This what socialism looks like.



We’re now finding out why nationalisation is n’t such a bad thing, the French owning much of our electricty supplies are now threatening to cut us off over the fishing disputes. Bus and Train services hardly ever run on time or not at all, steelworks owned by Indians and Chinese lowering the quality of British made Steel.

All our utilities and transport should be nationalised in my opinion
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 28, 2021, 02:01:17 pm
Post ww2, three decades of socialism in the uk left us on the verge of being an economic dustbin on the global scale. The govt owned all majority industry such as auto and steel. Crushingly high tax rates on income and capital. Much of housing govt owned
Trade unions spending all their funds on political objectives such as controlling the Labour Party. . From 1950 to 1975, the U.K.’s investment and productivity record was the worst of any major industrial country. Trade-union demands increased the size of the public sector and public expenditures to 59 percent of GDP. Wage and benefits demands by organized labor led to continual strikes that paralyzed transportation and production. But workers were happy I suppose stood by their burning braziers day after day were they? The winter of 1975.piles of rubbish and rats in the street. Bodies unburied.
This what socialism looks like.



You do realise that the Tories were in power for 18 of the 25 years from 1950-75?

You reckon Churchill was a socialist? Or Macmillan? Or the 14th Earl Home? Or Ted Heath?

Also, have a think what might have helped West Germany and Holland and France and Italy overtake us economically in that very period.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Filo on October 28, 2021, 02:02:39 pm
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.

Yes the 40’s 50’s and 60’s before every thing was sold off by Thatcher
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 28, 2021, 02:03:55 pm
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.

Eh up. It's Capstick Comes Home.

We 'ad a lot of things back then that thi' dunt 'ave today.

Rickets.
Diphtheria.
Hitler.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 28, 2021, 02:19:26 pm
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.

Sorry Selby. I respectfully, but fundamentally, disagree with that view.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 28, 2021, 03:00:15 pm
Feel free buddy I expected it.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 28, 2021, 03:05:39 pm
Post ww2, three decades of socialism in the uk left us on the verge of being an economic dustbin on the global scale. The govt owned all majority industry such as auto and steel. Crushingly high tax rates on income and capital. Much of housing govt owned
Trade unions spending all their funds on political objectives such as controlling the Labour Party. . From 1950 to 1975, the U.K.’s investment and productivity record was the worst of any major industrial country. Trade-union demands increased the size of the public sector and public expenditures to 59 percent of GDP. Wage and benefits demands by organized labor led to continual strikes that paralyzed transportation and production. But workers were happy I suppose stood by their burning braziers day after day were they? The winter of 1975.piles of rubbish and rats in the street. Bodies unburied.
This what socialism looks like.



You do realise that the Tories were in power for 18 of the 25 years from 1950-75?

You reckon Churchill was a socialist? Or Macmillan? Or the 14th Earl Home? Or Ted Heath?

Also, have a think what might have helped West Germany and Holland and France and Italy overtake us economically in that very period.

Don’t think my argument is somehow totally against socialism and totally for what we currently have.
I believe there is a happy balance to be struck.
Not that that will ever happen of course.
We live in an all or nothing democracy .
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: scawsby steve on October 28, 2021, 06:59:41 pm
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.

Eh up. It's Capstick Comes Home.

We 'ad a lot of things back then that thi' dunt 'ave today.

Rickets.
Diphtheria.
Hitler.

100% employment.
World Cup winners.
Everything ridiculously cheap.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Prez on October 28, 2021, 07:18:43 pm
A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.

Do you live by your political faith selby? do you drive on roads paid for by the masses, do you ring the police if you have a problem with oiks or do you call your private security contractor and so much more, tories are phonies, look how quickly they resort to socialism when it gets a bit hard.

That made me chuckle Sydney. I wonder what percentage of your posts are on politics compared to Rovers.

im guessing its very high.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 28, 2021, 07:32:10 pm
ju
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.

Eh up. It's Capstick Comes Home.

We 'ad a lot of things back then that thi' dunt 'ave today.

Rickets.
Diphtheria.
Hitler.

100% employment.
World Cup winners.
Everything ridiculously cheap.





….and today we have got
Covid
Global warming
AIDS
Falling GDP
A Tory government
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 28, 2021, 09:56:53 pm
aye bring back ration books, can't wait.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 28, 2021, 10:57:17 pm
Post ww2, three decades of socialism in the uk left us on the verge of being an economic dustbin on the global scale. The govt owned all majority industry such as auto and steel. Crushingly high tax rates on income and capital. Much of housing govt owned
Trade unions spending all their funds on political objectives such as controlling the Labour Party. . From 1950 to 1975, the U.K.’s investment and productivity record was the worst of any major industrial country. Trade-union demands increased the size of the public sector and public expenditures to 59 percent of GDP. Wage and benefits demands by organized labor led to continual strikes that paralyzed transportation and production. But workers were happy I suppose stood by their burning braziers day after day were they? The winter of 1975.piles of rubbish and rats in the street. Bodies unburied.
This what socialism looks like.



Where as after decades of free market capitalism, we face the highest taxes anyone can remember, continuing very poor productivity, young people giving up hope of ever getting on the property ladder, low skill, low wages subsidised by government, paralysed transport, virtually no UK owned industry left, spiralling inflation combined with stagnant wages and an energy crisis. But workers are happy I suppose, stood by their braziers, flipping burgers day after day.

Things are so different now.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 29, 2021, 12:11:32 am
Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 05:27:10 am
A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.

Do you live by your political faith selby? do you drive on roads paid for by the masses, do you ring the police if you have a problem with oiks or do you call your private security contractor and so much more, tories are phonies, look how quickly they resort to socialism when it gets a bit hard.


That made me chuckle Sydney. I wonder what percentage of your posts are on politics compared to Rovers.

im guessing its very high.

90% + Prez, it would be interesting to see if those not happy with the board are the same ones that vote of this government.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 29, 2021, 07:46:45 am
Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

The council houses they were, in later years offered to buy for quite literally peanuts.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 29, 2021, 07:53:18 am
Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

The council houses they were, in later years offered to buy for quite literally peanuts.

And never replaced.

So as the population has grown, more and more find themselves priced out and we find ourselves with the housing crisis we have today.

But for those with property, like those who paid peanuts for council housing. Yes, they've done very nicely.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 29, 2021, 08:09:05 am
In 1950 the pop of the uk was around 50 million.
Today’s it’s around 66 million.
It predicted to be over 80 million by 2100.

Just how many houses do you think we are able to build every year?

It’s a controversial subject , and one that has been faced in much more populous areas of the world before.
We need to stop growing the population.
They won’t be talking about this at the COP summit though.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 29, 2021, 08:21:27 am
Moving off topic a bit now NR,

But I agree, population is a much bigger problem in the UK than many are prepared to admit. The problem is economic growth in the UK is dependant on population growth. Without it the whole system collapses. So. Difficult.

I'm not a massive socialist TBH. I do think a lot of the problems in the 70s like now were brought about by factors beyond the realm of national politics.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Axholme Lion on October 29, 2021, 08:30:40 am
In 1950 the pop of the uk was around 50 million.
Today’s it’s around 66 million.
It predicted to be over 80 million by 2100.

Just how many houses do you think we are able to build every year?

It’s a controversial subject , and one that has been faced in much more populous areas of the world before.
We need to stop growing the population.
They won’t be talking about this at the COP summit though.

I've been saying this for ages. The root cause of virtually all the problems in the world today is OVERPOPULATION. Why will no one grasp the nettle and say it how it is?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 29, 2021, 08:52:46 am
Great Britain is the 9th largest island in the world, yet the 3rd most populated. That inevitably brings problems in providing such as healthcare, housing, and decent employment.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 09:06:06 am
Great Britain is the 9th largest island in the world, yet the 3rd most populated. That inevitably brings problems in providing such as healthcare, housing, and decent employment.

what has being an island got to do with the price of fish?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 29, 2021, 09:24:04 am
The geographic constraint does intensify problems in congestion, water supply and pollution a bit more and I'd argue it loads these problems more heavily on the poorer sectors of society. But then these problems arise in hot spots in major cities on a very big island like Australia.

I don't think the problem of population is particularly a national one but global. It's simply that were consuming so quickly and shitting out the effluent so hard, everything is rapidly deteriorating and it's getting harder and harder to ignore the fact.

Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 09:27:27 am
I would have thought ranking countries by population density would be more helpful
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 29, 2021, 09:35:06 am
The geographic constraint does intensify problems in congestion, water supply and pollution a bit more and I'd argue it loads these problems more heavily on the poorer sectors of society. But then these problems arise in hot spots in major cities on a very big island like Australia.

I don't think the problem of population is particularly a national one but global. It's simply that were consuming so quickly and shitting out the effluent so hard, everything is rapidly deteriorating and it's getting harder and harder to ignore the fact.



Correct, plus, if your island is overpopulated there will be more demand for fish, resulting in fish stocks being reduced therefore raising the price of fish.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 29, 2021, 09:41:40 am
Overfishing is already a huge and urgent problem BB.

And we're replacing the fish we take out with broken plastic.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 09:43:00 am
Or does the fact that the UK ranked by population density around 50th in the world doesn't suit whatever point you are trying to make BB
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 29, 2021, 09:54:06 am
Also, RD, when you consider the UK is placed the 13th most densely populated large state (England being 5th) in the world, there is hardly any wonder we have problems with overcrowding.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 09:58:37 am
Counties by population

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971694/county-population-england/
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: River Don on October 29, 2021, 10:00:13 am
And when you look at the top of the tree, at places like Singapore, I don't think it's a model we should be aspiring to.

Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 10:02:34 am
I guess one could say that a government that has highly favoured the south east of the country has let the whole country down by this concentration of resources.

Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 29, 2021, 10:04:40 am
Each generation has its own challenges. Young people today are getting screwed. Many will be in huge amounts of debt before they’re out of their teens! Property prices are a joke too.

There was a survey carried out a few years ago that noted that most people feel the ‘Golden Age’ is whatever decade they were on their late teens or early twenties. For me, the 80’s were the greatest decade. I was living in London, had cash on the hip and was having a great time! However, for my old man it was a nightmare of strikes, unpaid bills, illness and redundancy.

To my old man, the 50’s was the greatest period and everything began to go down hill in the 60’s in his opinion! Ask my Grandad though and he’d have said that the 30’s were great and the 50’s was the decade when everything began turning to shit!

It’s pretty interesting how individuals view the past and present so differently!
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 29, 2021, 10:06:12 am
Do we not need an increasing population to pay for our increasingly ageing population?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 10:09:45 am
That's fair comment RD, it would be interesting to look at what has been sold off over the decades and evaluate the benefits or otherwise of what has happened.

It could provide useful information as to how to set a course for the future.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Axholme Lion on October 29, 2021, 11:33:41 am
Or does the fact that the UK ranked by population density around 50th in the world doesn't suit whatever point you are trying to make BB

We're talking about proper countries. Ignore the likes of Macau, Singapore, Vatican City.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 29, 2021, 11:43:56 am
Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

The council houses they were, in later years offered to buy for quite literally peanuts.

Fueling a grotesque housing boom that has put home ownership out of the reach of millions of hard working younger people.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 11:44:55 am
Do we not need an increasing population to pay for our increasingly ageing population?

The other way of course is to improve efficiencies but that won't happen without the requisite investment. It will be interesting to see how either or more likely some sort of balance is achieved, the UK having lost of lot of workers due to brexit and some to covid. Johnson needs to follow through and ensure this investment materialises. The ride could be quite rocky unless the government gets on top of this, the points system will have to be relaxed as there isn't room for everyone at the top of the pyramid. Lots of countries will be competing for the highly trained cohort, families with a couple of young kids getting priority I would think.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 29, 2021, 11:58:08 am
The whole population density question is WAY more complex than is appreciated by the Send Em Back Cos We're Too Full advocates. The average population per square kilometer of total land area is meaningless. What matters is how much genuinely usable land area there is  in a country compared to the population.

On that score, there are many places that are massively more densely populated than the UK. The obvious one being Japan which has a population nearly double ours, but crammed into inhabitable land area not much more than half that of the UK. as anyone who has ever been to Japan will know, the urban areas are massively crowded by UK standards. Hasn't stopped Japan out performing us economically for 60 years. Or having a better education and health system.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: normal rules on October 29, 2021, 12:16:49 pm
Plenty of space and big skies in Lincolnshire.
Keep it quiet though please.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 29, 2021, 01:53:22 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 29, 2021, 02:36:12 pm
I for one will most certainly be leaving far, far more behind than I inherited when my parents popped their clogs.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 29, 2021, 02:39:53 pm
I for one will most certainly be leaving far, far more behind than I inherited when my parents popped their clogs.



I wonder if the kids of some our our most vocal objectors to inflated house prices will be upset when their inheritance comes along.
I suppose they will be though if their parents leave the family home to the Red Cross.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Axholme Lion on October 29, 2021, 03:00:36 pm
I'll be leaving it all to the Donkey sanctuary or dogs home. Let people earn their own money.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Filo on October 29, 2021, 03:03:22 pm
I'll be leaving it all to the Donkey sanctuary or dogs home. Let people earn their own money.

Good, Keir Starmer has an interest in a Donkey Sanctury Lol!
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 29, 2021, 03:11:01 pm
I'll be leaving it all to the Donkey sanctuary or dogs home. Let people earn their own money.

Good, Keir Starmer has an interest in a Donkey Sanctury Lol!

Yes, it's called the Labour party.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 29, 2021, 03:39:32 pm
Ta da.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 29, 2021, 04:46:27 pm
BB, the donkeys are not happy with that comparison.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 29, 2021, 06:06:07 pm
  The rents in the Labour controlled council of Doncaster for a council house in Askern were higher than the mortgage repayments per month  for a  bungalow in Norton per month and the reason my parents bought the bungalow in 1971/2.
   As for those three things Billy we beat the lot including that horrible little Barsteward who had nothing to do with the generations in the UK but was idolised and followed by a lot of your mates grannies and grandads over the pond on his tour of Europe 1935/45.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 09:00:42 pm
meds selby meds
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2021, 10:23:36 pm
When talking about how kids of those with property will inherit, what about the many of the 4.5 million renters will never get on 'the ladder' that will have sfa to hand down.

The UK used to be a place where many more rented property, probably due to controls on rents which were removed. It could have been so much better, lots of countries in Europe have large contingents of renters whom are happy to do so.

Homes should be just that, somewhere to live securely, the state should build homes to sell at cost+. Tax should be paid on windfall profits to take investors out of the market.

The benefits of security of tenure and a government that is there for the betterment of society  is something to aspire to.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: belton rover on October 30, 2021, 12:01:14 am
meds selby meds
That’s not how you spell mods.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 30, 2021, 08:26:32 am
When talking about how kids of those with property will inherit, what about the many of the 4.5 million renters will never get on 'the ladder' that will have sfa to hand down.

The UK used to be a place where many more rented property, probably due to controls on rents which were removed. It could have been so much better, lots of countries in Europe have large contingents of renters whom are happy to do so.

Homes should be just that, somewhere to live securely, the state should build homes to sell at cost+. Tax should be paid on windfall profits to take investors out of the market.

The benefits of security of tenure and a government that is there for the betterment of society  is something to aspire to.




There are taxes on windfall profits.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 30, 2021, 09:01:48 am
what is the rate?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 30, 2021, 10:40:47 am
Just after the 2019 GE they were interviewing people from traditional Labour heartlands and asking them why they voted Tory after decades of supporting Labour. One bloke said that he was still a Socialist at heart but now he’d retired he didn’t need Labour anymore. Nice.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 30, 2021, 10:50:11 am
There is a study that I've mentioned a few times that shows that when people become wealthy they vote to protect it. Not everyone of course.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 30, 2021, 11:02:30 am
Just after the 2019 GE they were interviewing people from traditional Labour heartlands and asking them why they voted Tory after decades of supporting Labour. One bloke said that he was still a Socialist at heart but now he’d retired he didn’t need Labour anymore. Nice.

I've got a mate like that. When he was working he wanted all the greedy rich pensioners to give him some of their money. Now he's retired he's dead against that idea. I wonder how many other 'staunch socialists' react the same when the boot's on the other foot?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: i_ateallthepies on October 30, 2021, 11:32:17 am
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Prez on October 30, 2021, 11:56:19 am
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 30, 2021, 12:02:26 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 30, 2021, 12:05:11 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.

See what went wrong Prez, your parents should have planned and had multiple properties.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Filo on October 30, 2021, 12:06:38 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.

My Mother put her house into a trust, made it untouchable for care costs after 7 years has elapsed, she didn’t live long enough to get into a care home, but if she did the house was safe, she also made me joint bank account holder so that money avoided probate
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Prez on October 30, 2021, 12:07:42 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.

Yes it can Graham, and as understand some provisions have been made, but to what extent i dont know. They certainly dont own multiple properties.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Prez on October 30, 2021, 12:11:15 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.

See what went wrong Prez, your parents should have planned and had multiple properties.

Nah, they should have tossed it off and sponged off others Sydney ;-)
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 30, 2021, 12:27:12 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.

See what went wrong Prez, your parents should have planned and had multiple properties.

Nah, they should have tossed it off and sponged off others Sydney ;-)



…..or just left it to the Labour Party like all good members would do.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 30, 2021, 12:31:16 pm
I’m sure that when I was a kid almost everyone in my parents circle rented their houses.
The people who actually owned a house were deemed to bit a bit posh.

As for the kids of today, won’t they be ok when they inherit the former council houses that their parents bought.

And what about those people who invested in property, taking a chance which sometimes goes wrong.
Their kids will be extremely happy I guess when their inheritance comes along.

Many of those potential inheritances will never be seen by those you are talking about due to the the money being swallowed up paying care costs for the elderly parents in their twilight years.

Yep thats the dilema facing my parents right now, who have worked hard all their lives to pay for their house. Now in their 80s they are about to face huge care home costs.




It will happen in some cases Prez but won’t happen in many other cases too.
Careful future planning can help to avoid some care costs though, particularly where multiple properties are involved.

My Mother put her house into a trust, made it untouchable for care costs after 7 years has elapsed, she didn’t live long enough to get into a care home, but if she did the house was safe, she also made me joint bank account holder so that money avoided probate




Crikey Filo, you will have Syd on your case for admitting that.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on October 30, 2021, 12:38:49 pm
Just after the 2019 GE they were interviewing people from traditional Labour heartlands and asking them why they voted Tory after decades of supporting Labour. One bloke said that he was still a Socialist at heart but now he’d retired he didn’t need Labour anymore. Nice.

I've got a mate like that. When he was working he wanted all the greedy rich pensioners to give him some of their money. Now he's retired he's dead against that idea. I wonder how many other 'staunch socialists' react the same when the boot's on the other foot?

Plenty I’d suspect BB. A sad indictment of that generation who ‘pulled up the ladder’.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 30, 2021, 01:08:03 pm
What do you mean by pulling up the ladder?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 30, 2021, 10:19:50 pm
Just after the 2019 GE they were interviewing people from traditional Labour heartlands and asking them why they voted Tory after decades of supporting Labour. One bloke said that he was still a Socialist at heart but now he’d retired he didn’t need Labour anymore. Nice.

I've got a mate like that. When he was working he wanted all the greedy rich pensioners to give him some of their money. Now he's retired he's dead against that idea. I wonder how many other 'staunch socialists' react the same when the boot's on the other foot?

Plenty I’d suspect BB. A sad indictment of that generation who ‘pulled up the ladder’.

Another sad indictment is we have people on a political thread that don't know what a ladder is and cannot tell one politician from another.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 30, 2021, 10:30:36 pm
Just after the 2019 GE they were interviewing people from traditional Labour heartlands and asking them why they voted Tory after decades of supporting Labour. One bloke said that he was still a Socialist at heart but now he’d retired he didn’t need Labour anymore. Nice.

I've got a mate like that. When he was working he wanted all the greedy rich pensioners to give him some of their money. Now he's retired he's dead against that idea. I wonder how many other 'staunch socialists' react the same when the boot's on the other foot?

Plenty I’d suspect BB. A sad indictment of that generation who ‘pulled up the ladder’.

Another sad indictment is we have people on a political thread that don't know what a ladder is and cannot tell one politician from another.




Even sadder that people don’t understand that BB asked who pulled up the ladder and didn’t ask what is a ladder.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 30, 2021, 10:39:43 pm
bb would understand after all he's the man of mirth, everything's funny.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 30, 2021, 10:40:30 pm
What strange and bizarre reply.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 30, 2021, 10:42:52 pm
fourth can?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: selby on October 30, 2021, 10:53:21 pm
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Filo on October 30, 2021, 11:24:17 pm
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.


Not sure what tax I’ve avoided, if you mean the care home costs, (which I didn’t avoid because my mother never went into a care home), it was n’t me who put those provisions in place, it was my late Mother
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on October 31, 2021, 07:57:39 am
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.


Not sure what tax I’ve avoided, if you mean the care home costs, (which I didn’t avoid because my mother never went into a care home), it was n’t me who put those provisions in place, it was my late Mother

Would you do it?

The point whilst unfairly aimed at you is fair in terms of socialists, they often are happy to complain on things but also happy to benefit where it suits them, it's hypocritical.

There's some points on housing, why should youngsters rent? Rental costs are extortionate and horrendous value for money.  Where I live 2 bed small houses are going for £675 a month and snapped up in days. You'd get a better house than that on a mortgage.

It was said people will benefit from inheritance.  I'm 34 and thankfully still have 3 living grandparents let alone parents, it's a financial gap for many young people now, which is a great thing but where do they find a deposit?

But on socialism is there a place for it? Absolutely. It doesn't work on its own a balance between socialism and capitalism is sensible.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: wilts rover on October 31, 2021, 08:10:07 am
It will be fascinating to see what the response is from people who are against socialism to the next thread we have on the redisbution of wealth from the rich clubs in Premier League down through the less well off in Football League.  Clearly they will be against it and the PL clubs keeping all their £billions in tv money.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 31, 2021, 08:33:44 am
While we're comparing politics to football, It would also be fascinating to see why those who are against austerity politically, support a policy of austerity adopted by the Rovers owners.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 31, 2021, 08:39:39 am
While we're comparing politics to football, It would also be fascinating to see why those who are against austerity politically, support a policy of austerity adopted by the Rovers owners.

Name and shame them bb as you seem to be in the know.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 31, 2021, 08:45:54 am
It will be fascinating to see what the response is from people who are against socialism to the next thread we have on the redisbution of wealth from the rich clubs in Premier League down through the less well off in Football League.  Clearly they will be against it and the PL clubs keeping all their £billions in tv money.

Surely the less well off in the football league should be self-sustaining, and cut their cloth accordingly, like Rovers do?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 31, 2021, 08:49:18 am
It will be fascinating to see what the response is from people who are against socialism to the next thread we have on the redisbution of wealth from the rich clubs in Premier League down through the less well off in Football League.  Clearly they will be against it and the PL clubs keeping all their £billions in tv money.

Surely the less well off in the football league should be self-sustaining, and cut their cloth accordingly, like Rovers do?

but if there's more cloth everyone gets to wear baggy pants
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Filo on October 31, 2021, 09:00:01 am
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.


Not sure what tax I’ve avoided, if you mean the care home costs, (which I didn’t avoid because my mother never went into a care home), it was n’t me who put those provisions in place, it was my late Mother

Would you do it?

The point whilst unfairly aimed at you is fair in terms of socialists, they often are happy to complain on things but also happy to benefit where it suits them, it's hypocritical.

There's some points on housing, why should youngsters rent? Rental costs are extortionate and horrendous value for money.  Where I live 2 bed small houses are going for £675 a month and snapped up in days. You'd get a better house than that on a mortgage.

It was said people will benefit from inheritance.  I'm 34 and thankfully still have 3 living grandparents let alone parents, it's a financial gap for many young people now, which is a great thing but where do they find a deposit?

But on socialism is there a place for it? Absolutely. It doesn't work on its own a balance between socialism and capitalism is sensible.


Well I own my house and have n’t done it
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 31, 2021, 09:11:32 am
fourth can?





I don’t drink any cans of anything.
I might have four bottles of beer at home in a year.
Funny how you change a subject when it has been pointed out that you have misread a post.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 31, 2021, 09:21:08 am
fourth can?





I don’t drink any cans of anything.
I might have four bottles of beer at home in a year.
Funny how you change a subject when it has been pointed out that you have misread a post.

And, what's your point?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 31, 2021, 09:22:35 am
fourth can?





I don’t drink any cans of anything.
I might have four bottles of beer at home in a year.
Funny how you change a subject when it has been pointed out that you have misread a post.

And, what's your point?





I just told you.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 31, 2021, 09:23:53 am
big whoop hound, the moderators could still be open
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: drfchound on October 31, 2021, 09:26:17 am
big whoop hound, the moderators could still be open




You are really odd, bye.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on October 31, 2021, 09:30:19 am
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.


Not sure what tax I’ve avoided, if you mean the care home costs, (which I didn’t avoid because my mother never went into a care home), it was n’t me who put those provisions in place, it was my late Mother

Would you do it?

The point whilst unfairly aimed at you is fair in terms of socialists, they often are happy to complain on things but also happy to benefit where it suits them, it's hypocritical.

There's some points on housing, why should youngsters rent? Rental costs are extortionate and horrendous value for money.  Where I live 2 bed small houses are going for £675 a month and snapped up in days. You'd get a better house than that on a mortgage.

It was said people will benefit from inheritance.  I'm 34 and thankfully still have 3 living grandparents let alone parents, it's a financial gap for many young people now, which is a great thing but where do they find a deposit?

But on socialism is there a place for it? Absolutely. It doesn't work on its own a balance between socialism and capitalism is sensible.


Well I own my house and have n’t done it

You should though, I don't feel it's right to have to sell houses to pay for care.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 31, 2021, 09:37:47 am
big whoop hound, the moderators could still be open




You are really odd, bye.

You see hound that's why you're a bit of a plonker, look at the comment bb made to which I replied and then ask yourself if bb was being genuine? there's a fairly interesting debate going and bb wants to spoil it, you two are reasonably similar wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: SydneyRover on October 31, 2021, 09:40:44 am
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.


Not sure what tax I’ve avoided, if you mean the care home costs, (which I didn’t avoid because my mother never went into a care home), it was n’t me who put those provisions in place, it was my late Mother

Would you do it?

The point whilst unfairly aimed at you is fair in terms of socialists, they often are happy to complain on things but also happy to benefit where it suits them, it's hypocritical.

There's some points on housing, why should youngsters rent? Rental costs are extortionate and horrendous value for money.  Where I live 2 bed small houses are going for £675 a month and snapped up in days. You'd get a better house than that on a mortgage.

It was said people will benefit from inheritance.  I'm 34 and thankfully still have 3 living grandparents let alone parents, it's a financial gap for many young people now, which is a great thing but where do they find a deposit?

But on socialism is there a place for it? Absolutely. It doesn't work on its own a balance between socialism and capitalism is sensible.


Well I own my house and have n’t done it

You should though, I don't feel it's right to have to sell houses to pay for care.

Are you suggesting the state pays for care, that's a socialist but a good idea, but then people would have to pay more tax, everyone that is and one party would like not to have to pay any it would appear.
Title: Re: Socialism
Post by: Sprotyrover on October 31, 2021, 11:41:00 am
  I see you were not against using the same tax avoidance rules as those " Tory arse lickers" you describe on another thread to benefit financially Filo, I don't blame you rules are rules but  as I say good socialists and other peoples money for parents care fees, lots of good socialists are into that with you.


Not sure what tax I’ve avoided, if you mean the care home costs, (which I didn’t avoid because my mother never went into a care home), it was n’t me who put those provisions in place, it was my late Mother

Would you do it?

The point whilst unfairly aimed at you is fair in terms of socialists, they often are happy to complain on things but also happy to benefit where it suits them, it's hypocritical.

There's some points on housing, why should youngsters rent? Rental costs are extortionate and horrendous value for money.  Where I live 2 bed small houses are going for £675 a month and snapped up in days. You'd get a better house than that on a mortgage.

It was said people will benefit from inheritance.  I'm 34 and thankfully still have 3 living grandparents let alone parents, it's a financial gap for many young people now, which is a great thing but where do they find a deposit?

But on socialism is there a place for it? Absolutely. It doesn't work on its own a balance between socialism and capitalism is sensible.


Well I own my house and have n’t done it

You should though, I don't feel it's right to have to sell houses to pay for care.

Are you suggesting the state pays for care, that's a socialist but a good idea, but then people would have to pay more tax, everyone that is and one party would like not to have to pay any it would appear.
You on Can number 9 now Sydders?