Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: SydneyRover on December 01, 2021, 11:43:17 pm
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''Jailed for 51 weeks for protesting? Britain is becoming a police state by stealth''
George Monbiot
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/01/imprisoned-51-weeks-protesting-britain-police-state
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Why does everything in this country have to be twisted to fit left wing agendas
Agree or disagree with this article this paragraph should be about the right to protest NOT.
“ Existing stop and search powers are used disproportionately against Black and Brown people, who are six times as likely to be stopped as white people. The new powers would create an even greater disincentive for people of colour to protest. Then the media can continue to berate protest movements for being overwhelmingly white and unrepresentative.”
What the hell has that paragraph got to do with this article
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It's in the paragraph itself phil.
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Why does everything in this country have to be twisted to fit left wing agendas
Agree or disagree with this article this paragraph should be about the right to protest NOT.
“ Existing stop and search powers are used disproportionately against Black and Brown people, who are six times as likely to be stopped as white people. The new powers would create an even greater disincentive for people of colour to protest. Then the media can continue to berate protest movements for being overwhelmingly white and unrepresentative.”
What the hell has that paragraph got to do with this article
The guardian has as much an agenda as any media. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to give their head a wobble
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Op about the changing shape of the right to protest, two replies neither addressing the main issue of the op but pushing their own agendas.
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Op about the changing shape of the right to protest, two replies neither addressing the main issue of the op but pushing their own agendas.
I was clearly addressing Phil not the OP Syd mate. Nice try though. You keeping well?
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maybe so, any comment on the fact the government are restricting the right to protest?
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Torn Syd, definite reaction to XR and latterly IB but are they patsies paid to protest to provoke support for this?
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Torn Syd, definite reaction to XR and latterly IB but are they patsies paid to protest to provoke support for this?
And you know this because?
Here's an interesting series .................
(Tory Manifesto) ''Boris Johnson is urged to fulfil £9bn UK household insulation pledge
PM’s adviser Dominic Cummings has pushed for cash to be spent on building homes instead'' FT
''Audit office blames UK government for botched £1.5bn green homes scheme
Spending watchdog says home insulation drive was fatally rushed and missed chance to cut heating bills and create jobs''
IB (and XR) protests embarrasses government for failure to IB is in manifesto ................. government answer to this .... increase penalties for protestors.
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I don’t, hence the question mark
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I leave you to talk to phil then
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The plod are too busy taking a knee at protests to do anything else.
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''Jailed for 51 weeks for protesting? Britain is becoming a police state by stealth''
George Monbiot
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/01/imprisoned-51-weeks-protesting-britain-police-state
Another load of lefty Woke clap trap even had to bring stop and search in to get his 300 words pay!
Anything in the Guardian about 2020 being the worst year for Anti Semetic attacks???
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That was my original response also Sproty
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gawd, it's like listening to Statler and Waldorf
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Protest on the whole is facilitated, not obstructed, across the board by police forces in the uk.
This bill is targeted at the most extreme and disruptive forms of protest. It can’t be right that people should be allowed to glue themselves to roads where emergency service vehicles need to get around on. In some cases to save life.
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There's a line isn't there? Where's the right of the lady who couldn't get to hospital to see her mother, the ambulance that couldn't get to it's patient, or the workers who couldn't get to their office, hospital, supermarket etc etc?
The right to protest is fine, but repeatedly blocking roads and causing the above crosses that line.
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Normal I’m afraid you’re wrong if you live in Sydney’s world
Where everything has an agenda and everyone appears to hate people whether they do or not
Wouldn’t the world be a nicer place without agenda seeking lefties who can’t see anything but their own point of view and bigotry
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The issue i see is that there are already laws in place to protect the public from numbskulls such as Insulate Britain and their barmy, disruptive methods. But the laws are not enforced properly and by and large, the protestors aren't removed immediately and punished for the disruption.
Then they keep returning and doing the same thing.
We don't need new laws. Just enforce the old ones properly.
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Colin
What laws are you referring to that aren’t enforced
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Colin
What laws are you referring to that aren’t enforced
Weren't the Insulate Britain protesters allowed to block public highways on numerous occasions without being instantly forcibly removed and they were threatened with fines and legal action and they just kept returning? Forgive me if i have the wrong facts. I know some of them did get prison sentences in the end.
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Protest on the whole is facilitated, not obstructed, across the board by police forces in the uk.
This bill is targeted at the most extreme and disruptive forms of protest. It can’t be right that people should be allowed to glue themselves to roads where emergency service vehicles need to get around on. In some cases to save life.
The point is, the Bill is specifically NOT written in a way that only targets extreme forms of protest. There's a lready legislation for that.
This Bill gives the Home Secretary sweeping powers to take action against protests previously accepted as part of the democratic process.
All it needs is a Home Secretary sufficiently extreme to wield it and ban protests for being too loud for example.
It's the playbook of the far right authoritarian across the world. And Patel is cut from the same cloth.
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Colin you are right there are laws in place such as obstructing the highway
https://greenandblackcross.org/guides/laws/3-obstruction-of-the-highway/?print=page
The maximum punishment is £1000 and first time offenders less
There are also potentially public order offences depending on what the offenders are doing.
I think the new laws probably carry greater punishments and hopefully a greater deterrent
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Not biased in any way there then Billy
Not a Tory voter then or a fan of the Home Secretary
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This only works in my opinion with the small demos .
Go try arresting the numbers who turned up in central London in 1990 for the poll tax demonstration or the Iraq war .
You could arrest the leaders I guess but with those kind of numbers behind you then you'd only make martyrs out of them and lose public opinion .
On an absolute hiding to nowt here in my opinion .
If the cause is right , has the numbers then good luck stopping the public .
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I struggle to see how anyone who cares about democracy or just basic decency could be a fan of this Home Secretary. But then, right wingers surprise me regularly with what they will normalise.
Patel has:
Been sacked for conducting secret negotiations with another country.
Been found to have had a culture of bullying staff, leading to one attempted suicide and the resignation of the person who compiled the official report on this when it was ignored.
Attempted to deport people against the very rules that her own HO had set up.
Repeatedly and publicly (using tax payers' money) berated lawyers working for free to represent the deportees, despite the Met warning that far right vigilantes were plotting violence on those lawyers.
She's a Poundland fascist demagogue.
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Protest on the whole is facilitated, not obstructed, across the board by police forces in the uk.
This bill is targeted at the most extreme and disruptive forms of protest. It can’t be right that people should be allowed to glue themselves to roads where emergency service vehicles need to get around on. In some cases to save life.
The UK police are sufficiently weak enough to allow themselves to be politicised at the the drop of a coppers helmet, as in the thatcher years and illegally infiltrating legal left wing protest groups, they themselves are just as likely to push or break the law. I wouldn't be to quick to hold them up as exemplars and champions of democracy NR.
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You really have got issues with authority
You are either on a proper wind up or you’ve really got problems with everything normal
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You really have got issues with authority
You are either on a proper wind up or you’ve really got problems with everything normal
Please correct anything I have said that isn't true.
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I don’t need to you’re not on the same planet as me or the majority of people thank goodness
If the police are so corrupt and bigoted who do you call when you have been the victim of crime or need help. The Ghostbusters
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I don’t need to you’re not on the same planet as me or the majority of people thank goodness
If the police are so corrupt and bigoted who do you call when you have been the victim of crime or need help. The Ghostbusters
You can't.
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I don’t need to you’re not on the same planet as me or the majority of people thank goodness
If the police are so corrupt and bigoted who do you call when you have been the victim of crime or need help. The Ghostbusters
Phil with respect and someone who doesn't agree with Syd too many times to say the least .
I've seen what the police are capable of during the strike when they were used as Thatcher's paramilitaries .
The role of the police is to be impartial and by any stretch of the imagination they weren't .
Orgreave and Hillsborough are classic examples of a corrupt police force .
The Met was called out as institutionally racist following the Stephen Lawrence murder .
The police are part of the Establishment in this country and a gun for hire .
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Whilst it’s easy to throw dirt at “the police” which in some cases is quite rightly justified. You have to understand that the police should be viewed at differing levels.
You have the ACPO level ranks, essentially the chiefs of police. Without question, this level of police, the heirarchy, are politicised. No question.
Then there are the middle managers. The inspectors to superintendents. There is some level of politicisation here. But not as much.
Then there are the workers. Pc, dc, sgt and many inspectors.
They don’t have time for politics or care for it much.they just turn up for work and go home.
To brand “the police” as corrupt is just niaive and shallow.
You can accuse many organisations across the board in all walks of life as corrupt or racist if you look deep enough.
Take a look at the history of black miners in the uk for example. Many of which were given the hardest job at the coal face. Because their bosses were clearly racist.The NUM or the NCB didnt get branded as racist though did they?
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Normal
People are only branded as racists by left wing Marxists when it suits their agendas.
There is no consistency in their thought process and they only see things in their one sided biased way
I don’t know why we don’t make them all happy and disband the police get rid of the military sack all management so no one leads and all are equal
Stop paying taxes and allow everyone to do as they please
Let’s give up on society and standards
Just remember normal hard working tax paying home owning non scrounging people to some on here you are the problem with the world
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Normal
People are only branded as racists by left wing Marxists when it suits their agendas.
There is no consistency in their thought process and they only see things in their one sided biased way
I don’t know why we don’t make them all happy and disband the police get rid of the military sack all management so no one leads and all are equal
Stop paying taxes and allow everyone to do as they please
Let’s give up on society and standards
Just remember normal hard working tax paying home owning non scrounging people to some on here you are the problem with the world
Left wing Marxists hmmm .
Jack Straw the then Home Secretary
ordered Sir William McPherson a retired high court judge to carry out an inquiry in to the murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence .
That subsequent inquiry found that institutional racism not only existed in the Met Police but beyond it including the criminal justice system .
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''Police and governments have done too little to stamp out racial injustice in the ranks, with the failings being systemic and leading to “unjustified inequalities”, a report by an all-party committee of MPs has found.
The report by the home affairs committee was heavily critical of the progress made in the 22 years since the Macpherson report into why the white killers of Stephen Lawrence were allowed to go free, which blamed “institutional racism”
It condemns “deep-rooted and persistent racial disparities” and finds guidelines and recommendations ignored over the past two decades, or not followed through.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/mps-rebuke-police-for-systemic-failure-to-improve-record-on-race
It's not like this hasn't been discussed before, maybe some choose not to believe the inquiries and reports.
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''Police and governments have done too little to stamp out racial injustice in the ranks, with the failings being systemic and leading to “unjustified inequalities”, a report by an all-party committee of MPs has found.
The report by the home affairs committee was heavily critical of the progress made in the 22 years since the Macpherson report into why the white killers of Stephen Lawrence were allowed to go free, which blamed “institutional racism”
It condemns “deep-rooted and persistent racial disparities” and finds guidelines and recommendations ignored over the past two decades, or not followed through.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/mps-rebuke-police-for-systemic-failure-to-improve-record-on-race
It's not like this hasn't been discussed before, maybe some choose not to believe the inquiries and reports.
Aye and didn't the Met chief when questioned on the matter say " it wasn't helpful " !!!
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So phil, I guess this begs the question, do you agree with Sir William McPherson's report?
(aka lefty Macpherson)
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I can’t say I don’t. I haven’t read it. I’ve only read what most people have read in the papers and seen the news
I can only suppose that he must have found something but to class all police officers as racist on the back of it is not right
It’s like classing all DRFC forum members as left wing anti government Marxists
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I can’t say I don’t. I haven’t read it. I’ve only read what most people have read in the papers and seen the news
I can only suppose that he must have found something but to class all police officers as racist on the back of it is not right
It’s like classing all DRFC forum members as left wing anti government Marxists
Did it say in the original article that all police are racist? has anyone said all police are racist phil?
why you mostly view things through your left-right crystal?
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I believe in consistency and being non hypocritical
Everyone judged on their own merit good or bad
Not labelling any group in generality.
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I believe in consistency and being non hypocritical
Everyone judged on their own merit good or bad
Not labelling any group in generality.
From what you have learned in this thread do you admit to being incorrect labelling the calling out of police as institutionally racist as a lefty thing?
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I believe in consistency and being non hypocritical
Everyone judged on their own merit good or bad
Not labelling any group in generality.
Yeah, it’s crackers to label them as all being the same. (Here he comes).
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I believe in consistency and being non hypocritical
Everyone judged on their own merit good or bad
Not labelling any group in generality.
From what you have learned in this thread do you admit to being incorrect labelling the calling out of police as institutionally racist as a lefty thing?
If you need a bit more time phil, that's fine
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I’ve learned nothing in this thread apart from people having indoctrinated dislike for things of authority
I absolutely do not agree that the average police officer in this country is institutionally racist.
I find it very difficult to believe that anyone believes that the average officer who potentially puts themselves at risk every day aren’t decent people
Anyway Sydney respond to this with some more of you’re negativity.
There won’t be any more from me on the subject. Your views for me are so far away from mine and reality there’s no point going on
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I’ve learned nothing in this thread apart from people having indoctrinated dislike for things of authority
I absolutely do not agree that the average police officer in this country is institutionally racist.
I find it very difficult to believe that anyone believes that the average officer who potentially puts themselves at risk every day aren’t decent people
Anyway Sydney respond to this with some more of you’re negativity.
There won’t be any more from me on the subject. Your views for me are so far away from mine and reality there’s no point going on
I can understand why you have ''learned nothing from this thread'' phil as it has never been said that all coppers are racist, straw man argument. It's a bit weird that you call a report by a distinguished high court judge as negativity but there you go. And one last point if you learned nothing and therefore knew everything then you yourself must be the WUM :)
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I’ve learned nothing in this thread apart from people having indoctrinated dislike for things of authority
I absolutely do not agree that the average police officer in this country is institutionally racist.
I find it very difficult to believe that anyone believes that the average officer who potentially puts themselves at risk every day aren’t decent people
Anyway Sydney respond to this with some more of you’re negativity.
There won’t be any more from me on the subject. Your views for me are so far away from mine and reality there’s no point going on
I don't respect authority because society says I have to .
I respect authority if I feel they warrant it .
You wouldn't get me bowing to royalty for instance because as far as I can tell they are a human being the same as me .
I'd refer to someone as a sir because I'd feel they warranted it such as Captain Tom Moore for instance but Philip Green could go feck himself .
Someone giving them a title means nowt to me .