Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Canadian Rover on April 18, 2022, 03:47:47 pm
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Get off the commentary- get on the bench and take over until the end of season from GMC this is awful.
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I never thought I'd ever say it but I'm FX*"!!Ng embarrassed watching this
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We’re absolutely pathetic. I’ve seen a few claim we’re improving. I’d love to know where. We can’t defend and never create a chance. There’s no way Mcsheffrey should be manager of this football club.
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We’re absolutely pathetic. I’ve seen a few claim we’re improving. I’d love to know where. We can’t defend and never create a chance. There’s no way Mcsheffrey should be manager of this football club.
I've been one of them.. tried everything to be positive - it's how I live life...however I've been delusional in my support for the manager, board, players and staff.
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He is so far out of his depth, the club can't trust him to rebuild in the summer surely. His mate and mentor Lee will definitely be blocking his number tonight.
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Absolutely abysmal today. Can’t defend, can’t pass and can’t attack. Mcsheffrey needs to do the honourable thing and go! Mcsheffrey’s appointment was a gamble that didn’t work out, so let’s draw a line under it and get a new manager in to start the rebuild.. again!
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I can’t get our commentary so have been watching and listening to the Shrews’ commentary.
They think we have talented players and are amazed we are where we are.
At least they were until they saw us play.
McSheffrey, and his team, simply have to go. I keep getting fooled by the occasional mediocre display (which still usually end in defeat anyway), into thinking he is slowly turning things around, but no - this team is not being managed or coached to anything like the standard required and I mean a standard that is just about acceptable.
It is dreadful.
We need a whole new team managing/coaching.
Please don’t let us prepare for league 2 with what we have now.
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He needs to back to the u18s at the end of the season. Lots will want him gone at the end of this game (and rightly so) but there’s not point in that. He’s tried and failed we have to move on.
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Pathetic, embarrassing, completely clueless.
That's the players and the manager, who surely has to go as soon as possible.
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McSheffrey is massively out of his depth in this job. He just isn't a manager.
I find it hard to blame him too much, he seems like a decent chap. I blame the people who had four weeks to consider all options, and still ended up making such an astonishingly poor appointment.
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Why is Griffiths on subs bench should have started
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Get off the commentary- get on the bench and take over until the end of season from GMC this is awful.
More to do with lack of pride than anything!!
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We’re absolutely pathetic. I’ve seen a few claim we’re improving. I’d love to know where. We can’t defend and never create a chance. There’s no way Mcsheffrey should be manager of this football club.
People saying we are improving has to be for the banter.
Improving is not the odd decent performance. Improving is going on runs and picking up points.
We haven’t “improved” at all considering the alleged better players being available.
The whole season has been shameful.
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We’re absolutely pathetic. I’ve seen a few claim we’re improving. I’d love to know where. We can’t defend and never create a chance. There’s no way Mcsheffrey should be manager of this football club.
Microsoft excel
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
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Second half display makes no difference to my feelings about McSheffrey and his staff. I fear now that it will go towards him keeping his job, though.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
What a stupid thing to post.
It’s the 40 minute display that’s cost us the win.
Are you saying the second half makes everything ok?
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We went 3-0 down by half time against very average opposition in a must win game?
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Tell the players. Embarrassing first half.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
What a stupid thing to post.
It’s the 40 minute display that’s cost us the win.
Are you saying the second half makes everything ok?
Of course not, but coming on here halfway through a game slagging off the performance is ridiculous.
At least wait until the end.
We’ve been down for a few weeks now, but there’s definite signs of improvement,
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
yeah great point mate. Just need to win our last two games by a combined 15-0.
Imbecile
15-0
You sure you muppet
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
No it doesn’t dickos. But even you can’t defend that 1st half display. It was worse than embarrassing when you consider what was at stake.
If we had won we would still be in with a chance. A small one but we had a chance.
Gillingham vFleetwood draw was what we needed. Wimbledon didn’t win.
Any way it’s over now. Goal difference has killed it.
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Now that we are down do we forget all the loanees and the players that aren’t getting new contracts and blood some youngsters to see how they fare
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I think we blooded them all earlier in the season and we ended up bottom of the league.
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Crazy second half comeback but it makes no difference whatsoever.
Not sure how many supporters pay to get a performance for only half the game - I certainly don't.
Nothing can mask the fact that we have been abysmal for virtually all the season.
There was some excuse at the start with unbelievable injury problems, but GM was allowed to bring in eight players in January and it's made no difference.
He has to go.
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We didnt start playing untill we were 3 down in a must win game, this result changes nothing for me.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Ah the contrarian turns up. Abysmal performance once again. Shrewsbury didn't bother in second half. Bright spot from Mipo was about all I saw.
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
I like a manager that can organise and set up a team to win games.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Ah the contrarian turns up. Abysmal performance once again. Shrewsbury didn't bother in second half. Bright spot from Mipo was about all I saw.
Ah that old one
We only did well because the other team didn’t bother trying!
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He’s not the man for me I’m afraid. Met him a few times in various places and he’s a good bloke, but he’s struggled, even with some backing in January. There an argument to say it’s improved slightly, but there’s equally many performances in the past 5 months that have been truly abysmal and far worse than some of the stuff under wellens.
It’s not all his fault though. Those above haven’t helped with incredibly poor recruitment and then there’s the injuries we’ve had all season. Hard to say whether it would have made much difference or not as we’ve never seen our first choice 11 all season really.
Very depressing. The club now has some very, very big decisions to make over the next few months. It’s worrying given the undoubted poor decision making over the past 18 months that has ultimately led to this.
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
Aye, love those that really get their players going at the beginning of a big game so much so that they're 3 down at half time and look completely disorganised.
In all seriousness, I'm still on the fence about McSheffrey because of the state of the club when he took up the job but f**k knows where we go from here.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
What a stupid thing to post.
It’s the 40 minute display that’s cost us the win.
Are you saying the second half makes everything ok?
Of course not, but coming on here halfway through a game slagging off the performance is ridiculous.
At least wait until the end.
We’ve been down for a few weeks now, but there’s definite signs of improvement,
there are no signs of improvement whatsoever
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The fact the game ended up all square in no way endorses the abilities of this management setup, if anything it shows it for all its inherent weakness and lack of any plan of action for a game.
To start with Galbraith when he knew this was a must win match is criminal, we needed goals and strikers on the field to try to effect the game, what did we do , we set up like we have been in all his time in charge which is weak and ineffective to anyone who watches a game of football. We have no plan, no go forward and no idea how to win a match.
The fact he took Galbraith off at half time and stuck Rio on was on the face of it for him a face saver to look like he was being proactive but on this occasion the two strike force started to link up and play.
Questions need to be asked why the manager cannot get the team to play in the same manner as the second half today, the fact they did does not excuse him of the shitshow that has been his team and this season, we have been no better off with him in charge and i would say keeping RW would of produced equal or better results.
Its now plain to everyone who has watched this disgrace from new year onwards to know that this is not the way forward for us, we need to start afresh and wipe this truly awful season from the memory.
Now that its all over bar WW3 breaking out we need to start the renewal now. We don't have time to waste.
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We didnt start playing untill we were 3 down in a must win game, this result changes nothing for me.
I think what actually happened was that Shrewsbury stopped playing and gave us the ball. You could see how the game suddenly changed after we got our second, suddenly we could barely get the ball.
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Of course there are,
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Hahahahaaa a modern day classic right there
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
By get a result, you mean a result that effectively sees us relegated.
If you're happy with that result, fair enough, but don't be surprised when the rest of us aren't!
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Hahahahaaa a modern day classic right there
So if we’d won 4-3 wouldn't you have felt a bit silly?
You would’ve looked it.
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Of course there are,
what are they?
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
By get a result, you mean a result that effectively sees us relegated.
If you're happy with that result, fair enough, but don't be surprised when the rest of us aren't!
We weren’t relegated today,
Relegated ages ago, in fact I’m pretty sure you’ve been saying for months we’re relegated.
Coming back from 3-0 down deserves credit
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
It has happened once, in a must-win game. We also chucked a 3-0 lead to lose to a relegation rival under this manager. We get railroaded routinely by average teams, and McSheffrey has got his set-up and selection all wrong yet again today.
He's nowhere near good enough for the job.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Hahahahaaa a modern day classic right there
So if we’d won 4-3 wouldn't you have felt a bit silly?
You would’ve looked it.
Dickos we didn’t win 4-3
We were 3-0 down at half time because we didn’t turn up 1st half.
Question. Is that acceptable Yes or no? No waffle Yes or no?
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
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The arguments for GM all seem to be a bit mysterious - he's mildly improved some stats here and there, he's good on the training ground, we look slightly better than before.
Fundamentally, we look shellshocked at the start of almost every game - a complete lack of organisation, setup, and even more worryingly motivation or urgency among the players. The amount of individual errors among the players is mindblowing. The defense can't defend, and the attackers can't score goal on a regular basis. The lack of instruction to the players is exposed by the co-commentator every week on iplayer.
For me GM has to go and we need a clean break and fresh ideas.
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Reminder that Martin, Mipo, Galbraith and Smith won’t be here next season, and certain Bostock will not be either. That’s basically half the side today. Look what you are left with.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Hahahahaaa a modern day classic right there
So if we’d won 4-3 wouldn't you have felt a bit silly?
You would’ve looked it.
Given I didn't say anything during the match you make no sense (as usual).
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The fact that we showed we are capable of scoring 3 goals in one half of a football match just shows even more how utterly unacceptable the 1st half no show was.
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The arguments for GM all seem to be a bit mysterious - he's mildly improved some stats here and there, he's good on the training ground, we look slightly better than before.
Fundamentally, we look shellshocked at the start of almost every game - a complete lack of organisation, setup, and even more worryingly motivation or urgency among the players. The amount of individual errors among the players is mindblowing. The defense can't defend, and the attackers can't score goal on a regular basis. The lack of instruction to the players is exposed by the co-commentator every week on iplayer.
For me GM has to go and we need a clean break and fresh ideas.
Agree with every word of this.
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
By get a result, you mean a result that effectively sees us relegated.
If you're happy with that result, fair enough, but don't be surprised when the rest of us aren't!
We weren’t relegated today,
Relegated ages ago, in fact I’m pretty sure you’ve been saying for months we’re relegated.
Coming back from 3-0 down deserves credit
Perhaps you could find some quotes of mine that say that? Or not because you're inventing rubbish.
Funny how GM deserves credit for the team scoring 3 goals.. But the first half performance wasn't his fault at all..
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The result in isolation was an ok one. In the situation we are in it’s obviously not enough. GM has got us a point a game since he came in. Much better than what went before him. Is he brilliant? No. Is he completely useless? No. Are we a better team than when he took over? Yes. Is he good enough to get us straight back up? Possibly.
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A few players have come into fitness recently and yes, we've resembled a somewhat competitive side against 2 teams with nothing to play for and another against bottom of the league.
That this is considered to be an improvement shows how low the bar has been set.
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A few players have come into fitness recently and yes, we've resembled a somewhat competitive side against 2 teams with nothing to play for and another against bottom of the league.
That this is considered to be an improvement shows how low the bar has been set.
Improvement means you have become better than what you were. Also, it’s not a static thing.
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People need to wait a bit before they throw their toys out the pram.
A game doesn’t last 40 mins
Hahahahaaa a modern day classic right there
So if we’d won 4-3 wouldn't you have felt a bit silly?
You would’ve looked it.
Dickos we didn’t win 4-3
We were 3-0 down at half time because we didn’t turn up 1st half.
Question. Is that acceptable Yes or no? No waffle Yes or no?
But nobody knew that after 40 mins was my point.
3-3 is a decent result in isolation
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Maybe he’s improved us slightly but bloody hell we were lower than low when he took over. For me his tactics and in game management are non existent. He can’t continue on that basis alone. If he does we’ll be no where near next year. There are a lot of decent clubs in league 2 with probably some big spenders coming up. I think it will be mid table personally unless we sort this out
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Well say what you want but I like a manager that can inspire a team at half time and make changes that get a result.
By get a result, you mean a result that effectively sees us relegated.
If you're happy with that result, fair enough, but don't be surprised when the rest of us aren't!
We weren’t relegated today,
Relegated ages ago, in fact I’m pretty sure you’ve been saying for months we’re relegated.
Coming back from 3-0 down deserves credit
Perhaps you could find some quotes of mine that say that? Or not because you're inventing rubbish.
Funny how GM deserves credit for the team scoring 3 goals.. But the first half performance wasn't his fault at all..
Are you mental?
Where has anyone said the first half wasn’t his fault, the game lasts longer than 40 mins.
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
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The result in isolation was an ok one. In the situation we are in it’s obviously not enough. GM has got us a point a game since he came in. Much better than what went before him. Is he brilliant? No. Is he completely useless? No. Are we a better team than when he took over? Yes. Is he good enough to get us straight back up? Possibly.
possibly good enough to get us back up based on what? Our inability to create chances or our idiotic defending?
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.
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The result in isolation was an ok one. In the situation we are in it’s obviously not enough. GM has got us a point a game since he came in. Much better than what went before him. Is he brilliant? No. Is he completely useless? No. Are we a better team than when he took over? Yes. Is he good enough to get us straight back up? Possibly.
I agree with this and I would add the point I made in the other thread. Rovers have been changing manager far too often recently, I think a bit of stability would not go amiss.
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I don’t think it matters who is the manager for me the problem is the people above who make the decisions!
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.
I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,
We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,
I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey
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A few players have come into fitness recently and yes, we've resembled a somewhat competitive side against 2 teams with nothing to play for and another against bottom of the league.
That this is considered to be an improvement shows how low the bar has been set.
Improvement means you have become better than what you were. Also, it’s not a static thing.
Well this is it. A marginal short term improvement on your own poor record due to factors outside your control is hardly worth championing as an improvement.
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"Things have improved"
Give us the improvements then. Mention results, goals conceded and goals scored in your answer,
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.
I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,
We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,
I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey
equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements
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"Things have improved"
Give us the improvements then. Mention results, goals conceded and goals scored in your answer,
One clear improvement since he came is our away form.
0 wins before he came.
Not consistently but we have had numerous games where we have created plenty of chances, before he arrived we created very few chances
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.
I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,
We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,
I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey
equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements
Cambridge at home wasnt great for me, we had a 20 min spell where we were on top.
There’s been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more, but lacked the cutting edge.
Mcsheffrey has made better signings for me too,
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Why are people debating this? Both managers have been utterly atrocious.
This has been one of the worst seasons in our entire history. That says it all.
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.
I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,
We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,
I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey
equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements
Cambridge at home wasnt great for me, we had a 20 min spell where we were on top.
There’s been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more, but lacked the cutting edge.
Mcsheffrey has made better signings for me too,
so genuinely believe mcsheffrey has done anything to deserve being the manager next season?
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I’d keep mcsheffrey yeah,
No value in constantly changing managers, he took over a team that was having an atrocious season,
In my opinion, with a pre season and his own squad I think he’ll do well.
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Of course there are,
what are they?
Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good
so you’re using a pool of 3 games?
You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,
you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.
I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,
We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,
I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey
equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements
Cambridge at home wasnt great for me, we had a 20 min spell where we were on top.
There’s been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more, but lacked the cutting edge.
Mcsheffrey has made better signings for me too,
"There have been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more."
Jesus. The self-delusion of some folk.
We have won 34 points from 44 games.
Over 44 games, good and bad luck level out.
We have got precisely what our performances have warranted. The 3rd or 4th worst points haul in the past half century.
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Despite all that BST,
Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?
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Despite all that BST,
Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?
Why did we bother sacking RW, if we are saying this end result is acceptable?
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Despite all that BST,
Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?
Why did we bother sacking RW, if we are saying this end result is acceptable?
Well, in the end I thought things were still deteriorating under Wellens but now I think a corner has been turned, even if it didn't happen in time to stop the drop.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
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the level of player (budget aside), a manager can scout and then convince to join is absolutely pivotal. fergie and mccan were masters at it, every else recently were not :-(
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"Things have improved"
Give us the improvements then. Mention results, goals conceded and goals scored in your answer,
One clear improvement since he came is our away form.
0 wins before he came.
Not consistently but we have had numerous games where we have created plenty of chances, before he arrived we created very few chances
Although his home form has been dire. Two wins only and one of those was against Crewe, which can barely count.
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If for anything else GM has to go due to not being able to mould this squad of players (in which a good number were his own) into something resembling a competitive team.
Whats he going to be able to achieve next season when we swim in an even shallower pool of players and resources.
I'd appraise this now,not in the summer when time has passed on, have a proper root and branch investigation into how the club has been allowed to degenerate into this mess and how certain personnel have performed their duties.
It should in all eventuality's result in a number of staff being relieved of their duties and moved on.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
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Surely whoever gets the Head of Football Operations role will have a significant influence in what happens with McSheffrey and the rest of the coaching setup.
The HoFO can't be expected to take responsibility for something they have no control over.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
With respect mate i don't profess to follow your stats but from what i can see GM has taken the best part of his tenure to get us back to where we were with RW, and we sacked him!!
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
So in 20 of the games under GM, we were significantly worse than under RW?
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So our, significant it must be said, upward trend has just got us to where we were under Wellens. That with a better squad as well
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There were plenty of chancers in the squad in 97/98 but most of them were genuine triers, whether at the very start or very end of their careers. This season though we’ve put together a group of players - and a huge group at that - which have been hapless, hopeless, abject and suspect game in, game out.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
With respect mate i don't profess to follow your stats but from what i can see GM has taken the best part of his tenure to get us back to where we were with RW, and we sacked him!!
Moving in the right direction now though.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
Does that take into account the quality of the opposition? In the past 10 games before today, we had played 2 sides at the bottom end of the playoffs, 4 mid table sides and four sides in or around the worst relegation scrap in Tier 3 history.
That is almost certainly our easiest run of games of the entire season. So with everything else being precisely the same, you'd expect an improvement in GD.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
That is a very interesting graph though. Superimpose into it the point at which Whiteman left.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
And this is the reason we should keep GM? By your own stats in 90% of games under GM we had a worse XGD than Wellens.
Now we're back at Wellens level.. Which was relegation form.
How can anybody see this as a reason to keep GM? I genuinely can't understand it.
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Just put this on another thread, we need someone to steady the ship next season and stop the rot, we won’t be challenging for anything I don’t think
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So our, significant it must be said, upward trend has just got us to where we were under Wellens. That with a better squad as well
With it being a 10 game average the first 9 games are obviously taking in to account some data from games in which RW was manager. The lines are when the managers left but don’t necessarily indicate a cut off of their results being included in the chart.
I’m not saying GM is the future but he inherited a real mess and are slowly improving. As BST said the latest run of games has been easier than the ones that went before it so improvement in performance should be natural, its beyond that though. Not impossible that we plateau at this level now until the end of the season this it being not enough improvement to be sure he is the man to go forward with.
If I can be bothered tomorrow I may do a comparison between the preformance of Neil Harris at Gills and GM here. He’s seen as the messiah there and GM incompetent here. infact there is very little between the teams in their similar length stints. They have just had a very slight bit more improvement and a little bit more luck. That’s ended up in them creating a 6 point gap. It’s pretty fine margins really but extremely differing perceptions.
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The club has been here before on a number of occasions.
If you fail to take L1 seriously you do so at your peril. I'm reminded of the summer of 1985 when Bremner went off to manage Leeds. The club appointed a replacement from within - Cusack as a rookie player/manager - and chanced it's arm at surviving on a shoestring budget. We got relegated in May '88, Cusack departed, we finished bottom with 33 points and a GD of -44.
This decline feels similar. Since McCann - and, it has to be said, a core of high calibre players - departed we've tried to survive in L1, firstly, on Moore's charismatic signing of decent quality loanees and then, following his departure, the efforts of rookie managers in recruiting a mix of highly variable U23 loanees from Premiership clubs and journeymen pros with experience of L1/L2.
That sort of approach failed in the mid-80s and it's failed now.
The late 1980s experience nearly took us out of the EFL. The following season we finished second bottom of the old L2, close to going through the trap door again. Only when Bremner returned did we see anything resembling an upturn. After Bremner departed in '91 the club spiralled into a deeper vortex and, a few years later, nearly died altogether.
The point of this inane rambling? The Board should consider this history, what worked, what didn't and think hard about what is needed to avoid a repeat. In the absence of any significant external investment, forget talk of 'bouncing back' up. What Rovers need now is someone with serious L1/L2 experience, a charismatic presence who can sign promising, ambitious young pros on a permanent basis, who can stabilise the playing side and get us performing again.
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
And this is the reason we should keep GM? By your own stats in 90% of games under GM we had a worse XGD than Wellens.
Now we're back at Wellens level.. Which was relegation form.
How can anybody see this as a reason to keep GM? I genuinely can't understand it.
I haven’t said we should. I just say we are very steadily improving, which we are. I think there’s a chance that over the last 12 games of the season we could end up being the 16/17th best team in the division. At no point this season have we been anything other than the 23rd or 24th best. Again, is that good enough, even over that smallish sample? Maybe not, but it’s a lot better that was looking likely not too long ago. The 16th best team in L1 would do ok in L2.
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The club has been here before on a number of occasions.
If you fail to take L1 seriously you do so at your peril. I'm reminded of the summer of 1985 when Bremner went off to manage Leeds. The club appointed a replacement from within - Cusack as a rookie player/manager - and chanced it's arm at surviving on a shoestring budget. We got relegated in May '88, Cusack departed, we finished bottom with 33 points and a GD of -44.
This decline feels similar. Since McCann - and, it has to be said, a core of high calibre players - departed we've tried to survive in L1, firstly, on Moore's charismatic signing of decent quality loanees and then, following his departure, the efforts of rookie managers in recruiting a mix of highly variable U23 loanees from Premiership clubs and journeymen pros with experience of L1/L2.
That sort of approach failed in the mid-80s and it's failed now.
The late 1980s experience nearly took us out of the EFL. The following season we finished second bottom of the old L2, close to going through the trap door again. Only when Bremner returned did we see anything resembling an upturn. After Bremner departed in '91 the club spiralled into a deeper vortex and nearly died altogether.
The point of this inane rambling? The Board should consider this history, what worked, what didn't and think hard about what is needed to avoid a repeat. In the absence of any significant external investment, forget talk of 'bouncing back' up. What Rovers need now is someone with serious L1/L2 experience, a charismatic presence who can sign promising, ambitious young pros on a permanent basis, who can stabilise the playing side and get us performing again.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
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The club has been here before on a number of occasions.
If you fail to take L1 seriously you do so at your peril. I'm reminded of the summer of 1985 when Bremner went off to manage Leeds. The club appointed a replacement from within - Cusack as a rookie player/manager - and chanced it's arm at surviving on a shoestring budget. We got relegated in May '88, Cusack departed, we finished bottom with 33 points and a GD of -44.
This decline feels similar. Since McCann - and, it has to be said, a core of high calibre players - departed we've tried to survive in L1, firstly, on Moore's charismatic signing of decent quality loanees and then, following his departure, the efforts of rookie managers in recruiting a mix of highly variable U23 loanees from Premiership clubs and journeymen pros with experience of L1/L2.
That sort of approach failed in the mid-80s and it's failed now.
The late 1980s experience nearly took us out of the EFL. The following season we finished second bottom of the old L2, close to going through the trap door again. Only when Bremner returned did we see anything resembling an upturn. After Bremner departed in '91 the club spiralled into a deeper vortex and nearly died altogether.
The point of this inane rambling? The Board should consider this history, what worked, what didn't and think hard about what is needed to avoid a repeat. In the absence of any significant external investment, forget talk of 'bouncing back' up. What Rovers need now is someone with serious L1/L2 experience, a charismatic presence who can sign promising, ambitious young pros on a permanent basis, who can stabilise the playing side and get us performing again.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
True RD but, to use another cliche, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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Why are people debating this? Both managers have been utterly atrocious.
This has been one of the worst seasons in our entire history. That says it all.
Oh SS how can you say that with some of the seasons both you and I have witnessed over the last 50-60 years? Or on your case longer :-))
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RD
I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.
We were shite last August.
We were shite last December.
We are shite now.
I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.
This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.
And this is the reason we should keep GM? By your own stats in 90% of games under GM we had a worse XGD than Wellens.
Now we're back at Wellens level.. Which was relegation form.
How can anybody see this as a reason to keep GM? I genuinely can't understand it.
I haven’t said we should. I just say we are very steadily improving, which we are. I think there’s a chance that over the last 12 games of the season we could end up being the 16/17th best team in the division. At no point this season have we been anything other than the 23rd or 24th best. Again, is that good enough, even over that smallish sample? Maybe not, but it’s a lot better that was looking likely not too long ago. The 16th best team in L1 would do ok in L2.
But once again, that last 12 games will have been one of the easiest runs of the season. The current average league position of our final 12 opponents is 15.4.
With a bit of luck, we might just about average more than a point a game from those 12 games. (As it stands, we have 9 points from 10 of those 12 games - to hit the 16th place form you speak of, we need to win our final two games.)
So, most likely, we'll have had usual relegation form in an extended run of games against sides that are at best, significantly worse than average.
I do like optimism as a world view, but this requires you to really stretch credibility.
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At the very least can we say that we cannot yet be sure about GMS?
Compare that against the doubts over who we might be able to recruit and how a rebuild job might go?
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Despite all that BST,
Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?
Why did we bother sacking RW, if we are saying this end result is acceptable?
I got the impression there was a bit more to Wellens sacking than just results
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At the very least can we say that we cannot yet be sure about GMS?
Compare that against the doubts over who we might be able to recruit and how a rebuild job might go?
I get that there’s a worry about who we could get if GM is to go. But that’s never a reason to stick imo.
Also there’s ways to see who would apply without getting rid 1st.