Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: River Don on June 06, 2022, 06:20:46 pm
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Ireland is planning a new lockdown.
Not because of Covid but because they are running out of fuel. They plan to demand people who can work from home and stop all non essential travel.
Meanwhile the RAC is saying motorists and business in the UK need more help with fuel costs.
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Makes perfect sense.
Which is why nothing like this will happen under the present government.
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The Telegraph are also reporting the Irish are considering lowering the national speed limit and rationing petrol and diesel.
It sounds a bit desperate over there.
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The RAC expect petrol to top £1.80 a litre on average this week while diesel will go to £1.90.
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On Bentley road petrol and diesel both £1.90 a litre ,using my ebike for work from tomorrow and I only do 9 mile a day
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The Telegraph are also reporting the Irish are considering lowering the national speed limit and rationing petrol and diesel.
It sounds a bit desperate over there.
This comes at a time when the Irish are considering changing cars to drive on the right side of the road.
If a three month trial is deemed to be successful then they will switch the lorries and busses as well.
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The Telegraph are also reporting the Irish are considering lowering the national speed limit and rationing petrol and diesel.
It sounds a bit desperate over there.
This comes at a time when the Irish are considering changing cars to drive on the right side of the road.
If a three month trial is deemed to be successful then they will switch the lorries and busses as well.
Genuinely, why? I've never thought about it much but does it make much difference?
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I assume that LHD cars are cheaper? On the principle of economy of scale.
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Fuel on the continent is much more expensive than here.
I saw €2.52 a litre for unleaded over the weekend in Netherlands. That’s over £2.20 a litre.
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The Telegraph are also reporting the Irish are considering lowering the national speed limit and rationing petrol and diesel.
It sounds a bit desperate over there.
This comes at a time when the Irish are considering changing cars to drive on the right side of the road.
If a three month trial is deemed to be successful then they will switch the lorries and busses as well.
for
I think this has to be read in a Bernard Manning /Jim Davidson style
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The Telegraph are also reporting the Irish are considering lowering the national speed limit and rationing petrol and diesel.
It sounds a bit desperate over there.
This comes at a time when the Irish are considering changing cars to drive on the right side of the road.
If a three month trial is deemed to be successful then they will switch the lorries and busses as well.
Ba dum tish!! Just a clue for those who don’t get it!!!
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I got it Hound! :facepalm:
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Cheers boys.
I had to chuckle at the couple of serious responses.
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The Telegraph are also reporting the Irish are considering lowering the national speed limit and rationing petrol and diesel.
It sounds a bit desperate over there.
This comes at a time when the Irish are considering changing cars to drive on the right side of the road.
If a three month trial is deemed to be successful then they will switch the lorries and busses as well.
Ba dum tish!! Just a clue for those who don’t get it!!!
Gah! Got me.
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Hound, are you here all week?
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All by design.
"You'll own nothing, but you'll be happy"
WEF
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Cheers boys.
I had to chuckle at the couple of serious responses.
Doh!
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Spiralling fuel prices have forced the permanent closure of one of the UKs two artificial fertiliser factories in Chester.
Serious stuff. Farmers are concerned.
"This will affect all sorts of things. If we don't have access to nitrogen fertilisers it affects everything from the cost of milk and meat products on the shelves to the price of bread because milling wheat needs the high protein level you get from nitrogen. Then you have to import grain and there's a shortage of that because of the crisis in Ukraine.
"Then there are the knock-on effects. Carbon dioxide is a byproduct and it is also valuable for the food supply chain. The whole food chain grinds to a halt if the carbon dioxide is now unavailable, from meat processing plants not being operational to hospitals having to cancel operations because they use it for surgery. We have a resilience issue now. The fact that Billingham has lost a twin means there's only one factory producing now rather than two."
The NFU has warned high fertiliser prices will deter farmers from growing the wheat required for making bread. The cost of fertiliser has risen from around £200 per ton before the pandemic to around £625 per ton in recent months.
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The price of filling a tank of petrol is expected to hit £100 for the first time on Thursday as the cost of living crisis deepens.
Petrol prices have risen by 2p per litre - the biggest daily jump in 17 years - which left a full tank for the average family car costing £99.40.
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It's a little late to turn the bus around now but deregulation and cuts to services is showing to be a bit of a disaster.
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Surging prices are causing the biggest hit to incomes since the 1950s. Inflation has rocketed to a four-decade high of 9pc in April and is expected to hit double figures in the coming months.
Consumer confidence has plunged to a 50-year low as it was confirmed that the energy price cap would surge by another 46pc in October to £2,879, forcing Rishi Sunak to swallow his pride and intervene with a £15bn support package.
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For a start i think government are going to have to eat an economy sized shit sandwich and relax restrictions on foreign workers to see if they can fire up the economy.
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For a start i think government are going to have to eat an economy sized shit sandwich and relax restrictions on foreign workers to see if they can fire up the economy.
Doesn't that just add to the burden? It's affordable energy we need.
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For a start i think government are going to have to eat an economy sized shit sandwich and relax restrictions on foreign workers to see if they can fire up the economy.
Doesn't that just add to the burden? It's affordable energy we need.
The economy is in crisis due to many factors and that problem has to be addressed at some point, sort of like now, fuel prices are only going one way atm. With a supersized nutjob at the helm and a relatively inexperienced treasurer, I don't want to add to the gloom but they need to make a start.
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For a start i think government are going to have to eat an economy sized shit sandwich and relax restrictions on foreign workers to see if they can fire up the economy.
Doesn't that just add to the burden? It's affordable energy we need.
The economy is in crisis due to many factors and that problem has to be addressed at some point, sort of like now, fuel prices are only going one way atm. With a supersized nutjob at the helm and a relatively inexperienced treasurer, I don't want to add to the gloom but they need to make a start.
There are a few factors but a squeeze on energy supply is clearly very dominant.
There is no way this inflation is brought about through over buoyant demand.
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This crisis although very relevant to recent events has also been bubbling away for some time, that successive governments have made deliberate decisions to use ideology over proven economic pathways has left little room to move. The economy was driven down with Austerity and institutions defunded, de-staffed and a there is a large cohort of working poor. Brexit probably has been the tipping point where the economy has proven to be totally unprepared for the Ukraine shock and a government awol. The economic rebuild has to start, the govt has all the information and treasury to advise them they need to get on with it.
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But the table talk now is that Boris, and the Tory party, are seriously thinking about more tax cuts. Boris, because it will encourage MP's to support him who are nervous about the result of a GE, and the public because they will think Boris is a jolly fine fellow.
Economic madness solely in the pursuit of power. Even having the conversation shows just how narrow minded and power crazed this party and its leader has become. We would be heading down the same road as the Greeks did.
BobG
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This crisis although very relevant to recent events has also been bubbling away for some time, that successive governments have made deliberate decisions to use ideology over proven economic pathways has left little room to move. The economy was driven down with Austerity and institutions defunded, de-staffed and a there is a large cohort of working poor. Brexit probably has been the tipping point where the economy has proven to be totally unprepared for the Ukraine shock and a government awol. The economic rebuild has to start, the govt has all the information and treasury to advise them they need to get on with it.
We seemed to be emerging from the pandemic pretty well last summer. Best growth in the G7 and all that. Forecasts were positive.
It was September last year when things went wrong. That was when the gas price exploded (immediately putting the UKs Fertilizer producers under severe pressure)
That was when Putin started turning the gas taps off to pressure Germany and the EU over Nordstream 2.
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Albeit with deep economic problems and a strangled trading environment.
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You cannot walk away from the wealthiest trading bloc in the world (without having an equally large one in waiting) sitting right on ones doorstep and not expect repercussions.
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Albeit with deep economic problems and a strangled trading environment.
Minor problems in comparison. Even the ongoing lockdowns in China weren't having such a severe impact.
You only need to look at the European gas price charts to see when inflation took off.
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I'm not arguing that there is a fuel price crisis RD I'm saying the economy as a functioning entity was in a hole and noone at the wheel.
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This crisis although very relevant to recent events has also been bubbling away for some time, that successive governments have made deliberate decisions to use ideology over proven economic pathways has left little room to move. The economy was driven down with Austerity and institutions defunded, de-staffed and a there is a large cohort of working poor. Brexit probably has been the tipping point where the economy has proven to be totally unprepared for the Ukraine shock and a government awol. The economic rebuild has to start, the govt has all the information and treasury to advise them they need to get on with it.
We seemed to be emerging from the pandemic pretty well last summer. Best growth in the G7 and all that. Forecasts were positive.
It was September last year when things went wrong. That was when the gas price exploded (immediately putting the UKs Fertilizer producers under severe pressure)
That was when Putin started turning the gas taps off to pressure Germany and the EU over Nordstream 2.
"Best growth in the G7" was typical 21st century Tory b*llocks.
We had the worst COVID economic downturn in the G7. Because we dealt with 2020 COVID worse than any other G7 country. So when we finally locked down, it was harder and longer than any other G7 country. So we were always going to have the biggest rebound. If you push a spring harder, it will bounce back further when you let it go.
But that was for a brief moment in time.
The Tories focussed on relentlessly talking about the rebound then because it suited them then. But the long term performance of our economy is f**king dreadful. Because of Austerity. Followed by Brexit. Followed by a Govt that hasn't got a f**king clue what needs to be done to get us moving.
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As we've discussed before I'm not sure that has much of an effect on the drivers of inflation right now though.
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It's the context of an economy that has gone off the rails since 2010.
From 1950 to 2010, we averaged 2.3% GDP growth per year. If Treasury projections are right, from 2010 to 2026, annual growth will have been about 1.5%.
Inflation will end because it's primarily driven by an exogenous supply price shock. That will not go on forever. But we have no plan whatsoever to correct our dreadful long term productivity and growth.
What the Tories do now is to accept the current built-in failure and call it success. It's a modern form of 1984 DoubleSpeak.
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Fuel prices have gone up 37% in the last year, and customers moan because we have put our prices up by 15% and we’re nowhere near the levels of business pre covid
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I wouldn't disagree that the long-term policy of austerity has subdued the UK economy for years BST.
But this current energy crisis is on another scale.
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This inflation is likely to be extend because for one thing the Ukraine war looks set to drag on.
For another thing investment in hydrocarbons has been low because of concerns about the climate.
Suddenly we are trying to pull more of the stuff from the North sea and elsewhere but that won't be a fast process. Plus there is still reluctance to invest in a technology now that must be phased out soon.
Bringing in vast amounts of clean energy sources won't be fast either.
A lot of western Europe simply doesn't have the infrastructure to ship vast quantities of LNG from elsewhere. Time again.
The middle Eastern producers are enjoying high energy prices and don't seem to be of a mind to pump a whole lot more yet.
Whilst this inflation will subside, I don't see it being a rapid process, unless there is an unexpectedly fast resolution to the war.
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RD, do you think one of those owners of a middle eastern oil company making mega bucks might like a real project to take over a small fourth tier football club in Doncaster and project them to the top table in European football, the Champions League?
At least it would see some good come out of all this mess.
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Somehow I doubt it Selby.
I think if I were an oil billionaire who fancied a go at English football, I'd pick Aston Villa.
Generally I think west midlands clubs have underachieved for decades.
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Where is the fuel crisis? there is no shortage at the pumps, there is no shortage of gas, at least no different on our cooker, the electric light and TV still comes on, and the water still comes out of the taps.
It's just dearer to buy, now before people start shouting I have every sympathy for the lower income families, and help should be at hand and rightly so, especially those who through no fault of their own struggle with life and finances.
But for those on good incomes who have lived to the limit, and have had the luxuries in life that they really could not afford, and have not put a little aside for a rainy day I have no sympathy at all.
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Well in Ireland they are already preparing for rationing and speed limit drops.
So even though it's only visible in rising prices now, there is a genuine squeeze on fuel supply.
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Where is the fuel crisis? there is no shortage at the pumps, there is no shortage of gas, at least no different on our cooker, the electric light and TV still comes on, and the water still comes out of the taps.
It's just dearer to buy, now before people start shouting I have every sympathy for the lower income families, and help should be at hand and rightly so, especially those who through no fault of their own struggle with life and finances.
But for those on good incomes who have lived to the limit, and have had the luxuries in life that they really could not afford, and have not put a little aside for a rainy day I have no sympathy at all.
This makes a lot of sense, but not everyone understands how to live within their means and it will hurt, they may have to trade down to lifestyle they are not used to, but that's the thing they can, those on the bottom rung don't have that luxury and as you say they should be helped.
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I think most people understand how to live within their means.
The problem is this inflation is forcing people to live within much reduced means. That is not easy.
It's particularly acute for those at the bottom but it's going to cause problems much higher up the ladder too.
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The problem is that some people who were comfortably living within their means are now under pressure from all sides at once. Food, fuel, energy and interest rates all rocketing up.
Those that do have savings will soon see them dwindle.
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This inflation is likely to be extend because for one thing the Ukraine war looks set to drag on.
For another thing investment in hydrocarbons has been low because of concerns about the climate.
Suddenly we are trying to pull more of the stuff from the North sea and elsewhere but that won't be a fast process. Plus there is still reluctance to invest in a technology now that must be phased out soon.
Bringing in vast amounts of clean energy sources won't be fast either.
A lot of western Europe simply doesn't have the infrastructure to ship vast quantities of LNG from elsewhere. Time again.
The middle Eastern producers are enjoying high energy prices and don't seem to be of a mind to pump a whole lot more yet.
Whilst this inflation will subside, I don't see it being a rapid process, unless there is an unexpectedly fast resolution to the war.
What is the mechanism by which inflation continues to stay high? Remember that inflation is the annual percentage rise in prices. We have high inflation at the moment because of a combination of a sudden increase in fuel costs,plus a COVID-related reduction in Chinese output meaning that there are fewer goods coming to the global market and therefore more demand than supply.
The Chinese slowdown will not go on indefinitely, so there's a natural end to that driver of inflation. And even if the Ukraine war drags on, I don't see a mechanism whereby fuel prices continue to climb at the current rate over a period of years. Absolutely, fuel prices may stabilise at this high level, but then the annual inflation in fuel costs would be zero.
Inflation gets embedded if you get into a price rise->wage rise -> increase in production costs -> price rise vicious circle. But at the moment there is very little sign of that happening. Wages aren't going up at anything remotely like the rate of inflation, like they did in the 1960s-1980s, where high inflation got bedded in. For one thing, organised labour is nowhere near as strong as it was half a century ago, so the impetus to higher wages simply isn't there.
What the current crisis looks like resulting in is a shock that makes us all somewhat poorer than we thought we were. It's a one-time step change in the cost of living, not a remorseless year-on-year huge increase. That will be an inconvenience to the well off and a disaster for the very poorest. The correct way to address that is a policy of redistribution to stop the poorest dropping through the net altogether, while the wealthiest tighten their belts a bit more.
Of course, we'd be in a far better position to handle that is we hadn't just had a decade of awful economic underperformance and massively depressed growth in wages that has resulted in so many having little spare to fall back on, but that's where we are. Like some of us were predicting back in 2010. For the medium term, we absolutely must not double down on Austerity. We need economic growth that starts to rebuild people's wages and living standards and we need a serious approach to prioritising the move away from carbon-based fuel. The latter is exactly what we did in response to the oil price shocks of the 1970s, when the price of oil quadrupled in 1973, then doubled again in 1979. As an example, in the early 1970s, the average fuel usage of American cars was about 12 mpg. In 1975, a REPUBLICAN government passed legislation requiring the average to be 27.5mpg by 1985. And they hit that.
There's no question that the rest of the 2020s is going to be economically a bad place for us. It shouldn't be as bad as it is, but the f**k up that put us here was made a long time ago. You say that the inflation crisis is a far worse thing than Austerity. It isn't. It is a bad thing BECAUSE OF Austerity. Don't underestimate how vulnerable Austerity and the resulting underperformance has left us. We now produce annually about £200bn less than we would have done if we'd got back to the pre-2010 growth trend. Think about how much better we'd be able to ride out this problem if we hadn't gone down the Austerity hole as a political choice. If we had re-stimulated the economy and invested in non-carbon energy and energy saving, like serious insulation, we would be in a much healthier place. We simply MUST do that now.
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This inflation is likely to be extend because for one thing the Ukraine war looks set to drag on.
For another thing investment in hydrocarbons has been low because of concerns about the climate.
Suddenly we are trying to pull more of the stuff from the North sea and elsewhere but that won't be a fast process. Plus there is still reluctance to invest in a technology now that must be phased out soon.
Bringing in vast amounts of clean energy sources won't be fast either.
A lot of western Europe simply doesn't have the infrastructure to ship vast quantities of LNG from elsewhere. Time again.
The middle Eastern producers are enjoying high energy prices and don't seem to be of a mind to pump a whole lot more yet.
Whilst this inflation will subside, I don't see it being a rapid process, unless there is an unexpectedly fast resolution to the war.
What is the mechanism by which inflation continues to stay high? Remember that inflation is the annual percentage rise in prices. We have high inflation at the moment because of a combination of a sudden increase in fuel costs,plus a COVID-related reduction in Chinese output meaning that there are fewer goods coming to the global market and therefore more demand than supply.
The Chinese slowdown will not go on indefinitely, so there's a natural end to that driver of inflation. And even if the Ukraine war drags on, I don't see a mechanism whereby fuel prices continue to climb at the current rate over a period of years. Absolutely, fuel prices may stabilise at this high level, but then the annual inflation in fuel costs would be zero.
Inflation gets embedded if you get into a price rise->wage rise -> increase in production costs -> price rise vicious circle. But at the moment there is very little sign of that happening. Wages aren't going up at anything remotely like the rate of inflation, like they did in the 1960s-1980s, where high inflation got bedded in. For one thing, organised labour is nowhere near as strong as it was half a century ago, so the impetus to higher wages simply isn't there.
What the current crisis looks like resulting in is a shock that makes us all somewhat poorer than we thought we were. It's a one-time step change in the cost of living, not a remorseless year-on-year huge increase. That will be an inconvenience to the well off and a disaster for the very poorest. The correct way to address that is a policy of redistribution to stop the poorest dropping through the net altogether, while the wealthiest tighten their belts a bit more.
Of course, we'd be in a far better position to handle that is we hadn't just had a decade of awful economic underperformance and massively depressed growth in wages that has resulted in so many having little spare to fall back on, but that's where we are. Like some of us were predicting back in 2010. For the medium term, we absolutely must not double down on Austerity. We need economic growth that starts to rebuild people's wages and living standards and we need a serious approach to prioritising the move away from carbon-based fuel. The latter is exactly what we did in response to the oil price shocks of the 1970s, when the price of oil quadrupled in 1973, then doubled again in 1979. As an example, in the early 1970s, the average fuel usage of American cars was about 12 mpg. In 1975, a REPUBLICAN government passed legislation requiring the average to be 27.5mpg by 1985. And they hit that.
There's no question that the rest of the 2020s is going to be economically a bad place for us. It shouldn't be as bad as it is, but the f**k up that put us here was made a long time ago. You say that the inflation crisis is a far worse thing than Austerity. It isn't. It is a bad thing BECAUSE OF Austerity. Don't underestimate how vulnerable Austerity and the resulting underperformance has left us. We now produce annually about £200bn less than we would have done if we'd got back to the pre-2010 growth trend. Think about how much better we'd be able to ride out this problem if we hadn't gone down the Austerity hole as a political choice. If we had re-stimulated the economy and invested in non-carbon energy and energy saving, like serious insulation, we would be in a much healthier place. We simply MUST do that now.
Looks like that well known socialist propaganda rag The Economist agrees with much of this..
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/06/09/low-economic-growth-is-a-slow-burning-crisis-for-britain
The only point of contention is that they reckon we are £450bn/year worse off after the recent years of pitiful economic performance, not £200bn as I said.
And as I've said elsewhere, they point out that this most mendacious of Govts keeps insisting, by plucking out of context figures, that the economy is just fine and dandy.
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No fuel crisis for the landed gentry in merry old England;
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/renewable-heat-incentive-mps-peers-landowners-anne-marie-trevelyan/
At least when you are freezing your nads off next winter, it will be a comfort to know that you are paying for the quality to live in a snug baronial pile.
That's where we are going wrong....born in the wrong place, then voting for people who reckon this sort of scam is reasonable behaviour.
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And Geoffrey Clifton-Brown is my sodding MP!
Still he has put my email in front of the Home Secretary's team... So that's alright then. Not.
BobG
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Neil Ferguson has confidently predicted that 1 liter of fuel will cost £1,500 in two weeks.
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Yawn.
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Yawn.
Hyaah, like totally mendacious dude.
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Fuel prices have gone up 37% in the last year, and customers moan because we have put our prices up by 15% and we’re nowhere near the levels of business pre covid
Winners and losers in the fuel price escalator;
https://inews.co.uk/news/full-tank-petrol-costs-electric-vehicle-charge-1680823
Those prices are based upon buying in the electric.....obviously making your own with solar on the roof is a different game.
It will generate changes in the wider economy which are based on assumptions of transport costs which no longer hold good.
Looks like the end of just in time delivery schedules, and a return to warehouse inventory to me.
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Diesel £1.94 from £1.89 overnight at my local petrol station but strangely no new delivery so old fuel in their tank has gone uo by 3p who is profiteering there!! I will be visiting the local supermarket for my next fill
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Raven, Tesco at Edenthorpe dropped their diesel price by 1p per litre today.
Now at 1.879 per litre.
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Oil refineries are making 5 times as much profit as they did a year ago. It's not the cost of extracting oil thats putting the prices up - its just pure greed by the oil companies:
On the 8 June 2021, refiners were making $9.26 per barrel from refining petrol, and $6.84 per barrel refining diesel.
On Wednesday (8th June 2022), they were making $43.11 on petrol, up 366%, and $51.13 on diesel, up 648%.
Figures published by BP, which owns a number of refineries in Europe and the US, shows its own measure of refining profits, the ‘Refining Marker Margin’, up from $7.7 dollars per barrel to $35.7 over the past year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61750251
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Raven, Tesco at Edenthorpe dropped their diesel price by 1pm per litre today.
Now at 1.879 per litre.
It was 187.9 yesterday morning when I filled up there
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Been priced at that for a few days now, I drive past it on my commute.
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When I filled up last Wednesday it was a penny more.
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Raven, Tesco at Edenthorpe dropped their diesel price by 1p per litre today.
Now at 1.879 per litre.
Great, but not good for me living down here just outside Snottingham :-))
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Raven, Tesco at Edenthorpe dropped their diesel price by 1p per litre today.
Now at 1.879 per litre.
Great, but not good for me living down here just outside Snottingham :-))
I was just illustrating that a price had come down from the last time I passed by Tesco.
I’m glad you told me about the Nottingham prices though as I am playing football there tomorrow.
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Raven, Tesco at Edenthorpe dropped their diesel price by 1p per litre today.
Now at 1.879 per litre.
Great, but not good for me living down here just outside Snottingham :-))
I was just illustrating that a price had come down from the last time I passed by Tesco.
I’m glad you told me about the Nottingham prices though as I am playing football there tomorrow.
Up to 189.9 today, petrol 180.9 and probably not going to get any better any time soon.
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York road across from Morrisons was £192.9
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https://www.petrolprices.com/
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RD, do you think one of those owners of a middle eastern oil company making mega bucks might like a real project to take over a small fourth tier football club in Doncaster and project them to the top table in European football, the Champions League?
At least it would see some good come out of all this mess.
Brian I have to pull you up on that. We are a BIG 4th tier football club not a small one. :)
Only Bradford could be considered bigger. Possibly Swindon as their gates have been very good in the last few years.
We also have the 2nd largest capacity stadium in the 4th tier after Bradford next season.
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RD, do you think one of those owners of a middle eastern oil company making mega bucks might like a real project to take over a small fourth tier football club in Doncaster and project them to the top table in European football, the Champions League?
At least it would see some good come out of all this mess.
Brian I have to pull you up on that. We are a BIG 4th tier football club not a small one. :)
Only Bradford could be considered bigger. Possibly Swindon as their gates have been very good in the last few years.
We also have the 2nd largest capacity stadium in the 4th tier after Bradford next season.
Apart from the stadium, I'd say Stockport are a bigger club than us now, Camps.
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York road across from Morrisons was £192.9
now £198.9 up 6p from yesterday
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And I bet they haven't had a new delivery
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And I bet they haven't had a new delivery
dought it ,the cheapest in town I found is the petrol station next to the college £184.9 for diesel
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I filled up at CostCo today for the first time in 3 weeks. It was 152.9p/l then. 177.6p today. Not 400yards up the road, a Total station was charging 195.9p. some disgraceful profiteering going on.
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You can get a second hand Nissan Leaf for five grand Billy
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Yes Selby. But it doesn't have the range I need and I don't have off street parking for charging. Thanks all the same.
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Just buy another house with a drive, or are electric cars impractical?
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Yes Selby. But it doesn't have the range I need and I don't have off street parking for charging. Thanks all the same.
What about getting a house extension? You can buy a 50-meter heavy-duty one for less than £50 from Amazon.
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And regarding the range?
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Yes, RR, you can get one for a similar price at The Range.
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0-10 BB not up to your usual standard
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Even I struggle with MY usual standard, RR. I'm a hard act to follow.
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Yes Selby. But it doesn't have the range I need and I don't have off street parking for charging. Thanks all the same.
I've saying that for years...