Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on June 09, 2022, 07:19:02 pm

Title: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 09, 2022, 07:19:02 pm
I've read somewhere this week that every Bitcoin transaction uses over 2000kWh of electricity in the verification process.

Are there any experts on the topic here who can throw light on that? It sounds insane. If that's right, at the rates I'm being quoted for my next electricity contract, that'd be getting on for £1000 for every transaction.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on June 09, 2022, 08:34:40 pm
My genius nephew has made over £250k on Bitcoin and similar erm products in the last 3 years.
He just bought his Dad a Jag (car not cat) for 'being an arse hole for 22 years' lol.
I asked him to explain to me the whole concept of Bitcoin. I didn't understand a chuffing word. It sounds like some sort of high tech pyramid scheme to me.
But then I don't understand music streaming either. And that's in both the technical sense and the business sense.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: nightporter on June 09, 2022, 09:05:18 pm
To verify transactions, Bitcoin requires computers to solve ever more complex math problems. This proof of work consensus mechanism is drastically more energy-intensive than many people realize.

“In the case of Bitcoin, this is done by having many different competitors all conduct a race to see how quickly they can package the transactions and solve a small mathematical problem,” says Paul Brody, global blockchain leader at EY.

The miner who completes the mathematical equation the fastest not only certifies the transaction but also gets a small reward for their trouble in the form of a Bitcoin payment.

In Bitcoin’s early days, this process didn’t consume nation-state amounts of electricity. But inherent to the cryptocurrency’s technology is for the math puzzles to become much, much harder as more people compete to solve them—and this dynamic will only accelerate as more people attempt to buy into Bitcoin.

Multiple miners are using electricity in competition for rewards. Even though there may be hundreds of thousands of computers racing to solve the same problem, only one can ultimately receive the Bitcoin honorarium.

“Of course, this is wasteful in the sense that 99.99% of all the machines that did work just throw away the result since they didn’t win the race,” says Brody. While this process produces a fair and secure result, it also creates a ton of carbon emissions. “I very much doubt [whoever founded] Bitcoin anticipated such enormous success in the future and, consequently, the enormous amounts of power we’re talking about,” Brody says.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: nightporter on June 09, 2022, 09:10:45 pm
There are many different blockchains, FLOW for example is a 'Proof of Stake' blockchain not proof of work and uses less power than 1 google search. Transactions are free on Flow too.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on June 09, 2022, 09:31:29 pm
It’s beyond me. And I’m happy to accept that lol
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: MachoMadness on June 09, 2022, 10:31:21 pm
My genius nephew has made over £250k on Bitcoin and similar erm products in the last 3 years.
He just bought his Dad a Jag (car not cat) for 'being an arse hole for 22 years' lol.
I asked him to explain to me the whole concept of Bitcoin. I didn't understand a chuffing word. It sounds like some sort of high tech pyramid scheme to me.
But then I don't understand music streaming either. And that's in both the technical sense and the business sense.

It is a pyramid scheme. That's literally it. Good on those who got into it early and made their money like your nephew but that's how pyramid schemes get you. Early adopters get rich quick to lure in the rest. The fact that each transaction burns half a forest down is just the icing on top really.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Not Now Kato on June 12, 2022, 08:39:21 am
A number of crypto currencies, such as Lunar, have collapsed leaving many punters broke!
 
For every punter who made a fortune there are many hundreds, maybe thousands, who lost everything they ‘invested’. In some cases those losses have been significant leading to people losing their houses, even attempted suicide! That’s always the risk with any pyramid system.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2022, 06:54:56 pm
It's not quite a pyramid scheme, but it has similar vulnerability. Bitcoin only has value if people believe it has value. There is nothing underpinning its value but trust in everyone else not losing faith in it.

National currencies (mostly) retain their value because Governments and central banks can run policy in a way that encourages people to hold their currency. Like offering interest payment inducements. So holders who are a bit nervous have some incentive to hold their nerve.

What underpins crypto currencies? Absolutely nothing but faith and hope. And that means everyone who holds crypto and understands it is scared shitless that the bottom will fall out of the currency and they'll be left with bugger all.

So it's not quite like a pyramid scheme. More like a massive Mexican standoff. Everyone's cacking it that someone else is going to do them in, so maybe the best thing to do is to to pull your own trigger and sell up before some other bas**rd does.

Which is why Bitcoin has fallen 50% since the end of March, and 20% just today.

It's not and never was an investment. It's a mad gamble. Some folk have done well and good luck to them. But because Bitcoin has precisely zero inherent value, every quid that A has made us a quid that B had lost. It's a zero sum game, just like gambling on the flip of a coin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 16, 2022, 09:54:27 pm
Floor is dropping out of Bitcoin at the moment.

Down nearly 50% since the start of May, and 28% just since last Sunday.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on June 17, 2022, 08:52:13 am
https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musk-sued-for-258bn-over-claims-he-ran-a-pyramid-scheme-to-promote-dogecoin-12635334

Looks like someone else thinks it’s a pyramid scheme, well Dogecoin anyway. Oh and who’s in charge of fixing it?
Only the world’s richest man, who I’m not the biggest fan of.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: SydneyRover on June 17, 2022, 10:32:40 am
I think the crypto market is done for a while, I can't see how it could rise with the regular stocks on a downer and confidence tumbling.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on June 17, 2022, 10:43:36 am
I wonder how much crypto is held by the more established banks and investment institutions? I suspect not that much so far, though who knows the big players may well be behind the whole thing anyway!

If they are currently outside this system, a crash of the various cryptos could lead to a mainstream banking buying into them as they bottom out. Then I wonder how soon the secrecy of transactions will be eroded? Or is it more beneficial to maintain this? Some dilemma is that for the powers that be.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 17, 2022, 11:30:14 am
Why on earth would anyone buy into crypto when it bottoms out? It is literally worth nothing, whatever the price.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: turnbull for england on June 17, 2022, 12:26:49 pm
Given the issues over gambling sponsorshiphttps://fanbanter.co.uk/national-league-cause-more-controversy-as-worrying-plans-come-to-light/  this doesn't look the sharpest idea
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on June 18, 2022, 12:32:04 am
Why on earth would anyone buy into crypto when it bottoms out? It is literally worth nothing, whatever the price.
Because its more than likely that crypto will ultimately be the way the money system works, albeit with some checks and balances, ones that benefit the rich obviously.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 18, 2022, 09:20:02 pm
Bottom has dropped right out of Bitcoin. It's in free fall. Down 60% in the past 3 months, 40% in the past 3 weeks, 20% in the past 3 days.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 19, 2022, 11:07:21 am
What was I saying about Bitcoin being a Mexican Standoff?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BondHack/status/1538135172100521987
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on November 15, 2022, 09:17:45 pm
Over a million are owed money by failed crypto exchange https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-63624894

Will this affect the price of Bitcoin and the like?
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: SydneyRover on November 15, 2022, 11:19:32 pm
A simple explainer, what just happened ........

''The collapse of the cryptocurrency exchange will cost investors billions. But why would anyone give money to a man who plays video games in important meetings?''

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/commentisfree/2022/nov/15/why-were-so-many-smart-people-so-dumb-about-ftx-did-they-seriously-just-like-sam-bankman-frieds-vibe-
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Colin C No.3 on November 16, 2022, 12:05:20 am
My ‘Obotu beans’ are dropping like flies!

The markets ‘there’ are apparently going crazy with a ‘skinned cat’ now fetching two bananas.

Should I switch to coconuts?
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 16, 2022, 09:22:41 am
Why on earth would anyone buy into crypto when it bottoms out? It is literally worth nothing, whatever the price.
Because its more than likely that crypto will ultimately be the way the money system works, albeit with some checks and balances, ones that benefit the rich obviously.

Governments do NOT want a money supply they can't affect as part of economic policy. Especially one that evades money laundering legislation, one that terrorists use because of that.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: normal rules on November 16, 2022, 12:05:37 pm
 They reckon a million people who had money invested in crypto via FTX have lost everything with no chance of compo as Uk based FTX customers had no protection under the financial conduct compensation scheme.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 16, 2022, 03:50:02 pm
That's what you get for giving your money to rogue schemes. They can't say they weren't warned.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: wilts rover on November 16, 2022, 05:49:36 pm
If something looks too good to be true - it usually is.

Anyone want to buy some tulips?
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 16, 2022, 05:53:00 pm
If something looks too good to be true - it usually is.

Anyone want to buy some tulips?

I'll give you some magic beans for them.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: roversdude on November 16, 2022, 10:07:47 pm
I wonder if Crawley will end up in serious financial trouble
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: drfchound on November 16, 2022, 10:11:37 pm
They just might do if they had invested in FTX.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Colemans Left Hook on November 17, 2022, 03:11:04 am
My ‘Obotu beans’ are dropping like flies!

The markets ‘there’ are apparently going crazy with a ‘skinned cat’ now fetching two bananas.

Should I switch to coconuts?

lest we forget

https://benthamscience.com/chapter/8455#:~:text=Shells%20have%20been%20used%20for,%2D4th%20centu%2Dry%20BC.

could say  Ftx is a "shell company" ........ the tide has after all turned and the punters are beached
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on November 17, 2022, 07:09:49 am
I’m told shiny beads are still acceptable as currency in Stainforth.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on November 17, 2022, 07:21:00 am
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/jul/02/theobserver.observerbusiness5

Brain took only a week to remember this: South Yorkshire’s own pyramid scheme - Alchemy.

I was actually approached to join this by a dad and lad combo, who I’d asked to quote me for chopping down some leylandii and replacing them with fencing.
They gave me a video and a nice glossy brochure and an impressive verbal presentation where it seemed I could have all the money in the world, just by recruiting more people to the scheme. And when those people I got to join recruited yet more folk, I was going to earn more money than Croesus.
 When I said ‘This is a pyramid scheme’ it was like telling the Jehovas that there is no God.
Anyhow, I got rid of them and months later it collapsed leaving the guy at the top in prison.
Didn’t get them to do the hedge either.
Bad day all round for them.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BobG on November 21, 2022, 03:05:20 pm
If something looks too good to be true - it usually is.

Anyone want to buy some tulips?

If it's a black one Wilts... Pay rather a lot for a bunch of those!

BobG
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 21, 2022, 10:21:06 pm
I'll get the Dulux out..!
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on December 16, 2022, 09:43:29 am
After the FTX chaos, is crypto down and out after a torrid 2022? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-63990215

Is this the beginning of the end or time to invest?
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on December 16, 2022, 10:51:30 am
By 'invest' don't you mean 'gamble'?
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: mugnapper on December 16, 2022, 04:58:11 pm
My biggest gamble this year has been a couple of quid on the Mighty Red and White Hooped Kings of Soccer to win the League at 18/1. (But that £2 was a free bet from Betfair, so not much risk on my part).
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: nightporter on July 18, 2025, 02:16:03 pm
At the time of this thread Bitcoin was  $18,000, it's now $118,000. 
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: Usher wide. on July 19, 2025, 09:19:55 am
At the time of this thread Bitcoin was  $18,000, it's now $118,000.

In June 2022 you could buy a gold sovereign coin for £360. They’re now £608.

More importantly they’re a tangible asset.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: nightporter on July 19, 2025, 11:24:58 am
£248 profit v's £87,000
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 19, 2025, 11:53:47 am
Congratulations to anyone who has made money from Bitcoin.

I stand by what I've said all along about Bitcoin. Its value is built on literally nothing other than the belief that other people believe it has a value. That has resulted in a succession of speculative bubbles and crashes in the price. Sooner or later something will happen that results in everyone losing faith in it at the same time. Then its price will be the same as its value. Zero.

It's the ultimate zero sum game. Anyone selling at the top will make a huge amount. The danger comes when you hold on too long, the final crash comes and you end up with a hard drive full of bitcoins worth 1% of what you paid for them.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: GazLaz on July 20, 2025, 11:27:40 am
Congratulations to anyone who has made money from Bitcoin.

I stand by what I've said all along about Bitcoin. Its value is built on literally nothing other than the belief that other people believe it has a value. That has resulted in a succession of speculative bubbles and crashes in the price. Sooner or later something will happen that results in everyone losing faith in it at the same time. Then its price will be the same as its value. Zero.

It's the ultimate zero sum game. Anyone selling at the top will make a huge amount. The danger comes when you hold on too long, the final crash comes and you end up with a hard drive full of bitcoins worth 1% of what you paid for them.


I did ok out of bitcoin but still stand by the fact that one day it will be worth pretty much zero.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: drfchound on July 20, 2025, 07:42:42 pm
Congratulations to anyone who has made money from Bitcoin.

I stand by what I've said all along about Bitcoin. Its value is built on literally nothing other than the belief that other people believe it has a value. That has resulted in a succession of speculative bubbles and crashes in the price. Sooner or later something will happen that results in everyone losing faith in it at the same time. Then its price will be the same as its value. Zero.

It's the ultimate zero sum game. Anyone selling at the top will make a huge amount. The danger comes when you hold on too long, the final crash comes and you end up with a hard drive full of bitcoins worth 1% of what you paid for them.


I did ok out of bitcoin but still stand by the fact that one day it will be worth pretty much zero.

Agreed, I too had a dabble and made a few quid, was quite nervous about it all though until I cashed out.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transactions
Post by: RobTheRover on July 21, 2025, 01:51:36 pm
Over the past few years I've lobbed my spare holiday change into bitcoin on Revolut. Probably put about £30 in via various currencies. Today I'm holding £100.99 in Bitcoin!

This time next year, Rodney.........