Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on August 13, 2022, 07:12:50 pm

Title: Stat time
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 13, 2022, 07:12:50 pm
Number of games played this season: 4

Number of minutes played: 388

Number of minutes when our score has been 0:  374.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 13, 2022, 07:28:01 pm
Total mins ahead: 3
Total mins level: 208
Total mins behind: 177

Quite something to have a W1 D2 L1 record with those stats.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: idler on August 13, 2022, 07:32:43 pm
I'm sure that Dutch Uncle will be eyeing those stats up BST.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: selby on August 13, 2022, 07:38:17 pm
  As Brian Clough said Billy quite a while ago " it only takes a moment to win a game of football"
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Avsuptem on August 13, 2022, 07:45:13 pm
Frightening stats for our oppostion.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Drover on August 13, 2022, 08:21:03 pm
  As Brian Clough said Billy quite a while ago " it only takes a moment to win a game of football"

And "it only takes a second to score a goal"
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Spud on August 13, 2022, 08:56:19 pm
Great stats Billy, well done.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 14, 2022, 04:57:20 am
We’ve played 49 league games going back to the start of last season and have taken the lead in one third of those games (16 games). In 10 of those 16 games we have then gone on to win.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 15, 2022, 08:34:05 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 15, 2022, 08:35:43 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.

Why.?
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Jonathan on August 15, 2022, 08:49:24 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.

No we’re not. We’re three games into the season, we’ve not been able to pick our strongest team yet, we’ve had three tough fixtures and got three good results. It’s extremely early days to be passing such a judgement and there’s lots of improvement still to come.

We are in bother if attitudes like the one you’ve shown above are allowed to fester in and amongst the fan base when things don’t go our way, which they won’t at times this season. The team needs time to gel and develop, I didn’t expect overnight results and Saturday showed steps in the right direction with the performance, but there’s lots more to come still. We will of course lose games, and when we do we could do with sticking together, although I’m sure you’re waiting for the chance to tell us who you would and wouldn’t have signed.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 15, 2022, 09:02:29 pm
I think more than anything we have shown backbone and resilience, which is a huge difference from last season. I am afraid though that waiting for injured players to come back so we can field our strongest side is as we saw last season, a chimera. Also worth noting that perhaps Bostock and maybe John (who didn't really play much last season) aside, we have a stronger squad than last season but are playing teams in the lowest level of the professional game, and still have the majority of our points this season by coming back against the run of play. Maybe this can continue, maybe it is early luck.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: idler on August 15, 2022, 09:18:57 pm
Against a much fancied Bradford side playing a home game we were down to ten men so bound to be under the cosh.
I thought we were as good as Sutton until they scored. They then grew into the game and bossed it until our subs gave us more going forward. We were doing all the pressing in the later stages.
On Saturday we were the better side first half before they started to control the game. They then scored two but we came back and could even have won it.
Just because we are behind our results show we can keep competing and winning points.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Jonathan on August 15, 2022, 09:20:38 pm
The Sutton performance (and result) is very clearly unsustainable. We allowed ourselves to be harried and unsettled and didn’t impose ourselves on the game at all in the first 45 minutes. Whilst the second half was a slight improvement, few would argue we deserved the three points on the balance of play.

On Saturday I felt we put in really good first half in terms of control, especially considering it was away from home at a team that will likely be challenging in the top half. We lacked cutting edge, but I do think it’s early to pass too much judgement when you consider we’re still missing some of our main attacking threats. It’s not top level football, clubs at our level sign a player like Luke Molyneux and you want him in the team. We can’t have multiple back up players of that level. And when you consider Taylor’s prolonged absence (I honestly believe that if fit he would be one of the most dangerous players in this division) and Griffiths injury (he’d have been very much in the first team squad) there’s no wonder we still look a bit light in attack. Give it time and don’t write it off yet or assume everything you’ve seen now will be what you will see all season.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 15, 2022, 09:37:28 pm
10 games and we'll have a better idea where it's heading. At the moment results are good it's but performances are patchy so it's inconclusive so far.

The positive thing for me is we've got points against better teams in the division in difficult circumstances (some of our own making). This suggests there's some fight and that the players are good enough when they get playing.

The manager is still the doubt for me. Until he can get us playing consistently well there's still the question mark around him been another Dickov type for me. We've got more fight than we did last season by a very long stretch so he deserves loads of credit for that. But the next step is us playing with a recognisable plan/style that gets results consistently without relying on desperate comebacks.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 15, 2022, 09:42:12 pm
The Sutton performance (and result) is very clearly unsustainable. We allowed ourselves to be harried and unsettled and didn’t impose ourselves on the game at all in the first 45 minutes. Whilst the second half was a slight improvement, few would argue we deserved the three points on the balance of play.

On Saturday I felt we put in really good first half in terms of control, especially considering it was away from home at a team that will likely be challenging in the top half. We lacked cutting edge, but I do think it’s early to pass too much judgement when you consider we’re still missing some of our main attacking threats. It’s not top level football, clubs at our level sign a player like Luke Molyneux and you want him in the team. We can’t have multiple back up players of that level. And when you consider Taylor’s prolonged absence (I honestly believe that if fit he would be one of the most dangerous players in this division) and Griffiths injury (he’d have been very much in the first team squad) there’s no wonder we still look a bit light in attack. Give it time and don’t write it off yet or assume everything you’ve seen now will be what you will see all season.

Obviously the injuries are not helping but some of them are down to bad management from the club. The three year deal to Taylor, Anderson extending etc

It’s looking like we are, at least starting the season as a, bottom third L2 team (admittedly even I think we are likely improve). If that’s not being in trouble I don’t know what is. The clubs aspirations are automatic promotion, we are a million miles away from that.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Jonathan on August 15, 2022, 09:56:27 pm
The Sutton performance (and result) is very clearly unsustainable. We allowed ourselves to be harried and unsettled and didn’t impose ourselves on the game at all in the first 45 minutes. Whilst the second half was a slight improvement, few would argue we deserved the three points on the balance of play.

On Saturday I felt we put in really good first half in terms of control, especially considering it was away from home at a team that will likely be challenging in the top half. We lacked cutting edge, but I do think it’s early to pass too much judgement when you consider we’re still missing some of our main attacking threats. It’s not top level football, clubs at our level sign a player like Luke Molyneux and you want him in the team. We can’t have multiple back up players of that level. And when you consider Taylor’s prolonged absence (I honestly believe that if fit he would be one of the most dangerous players in this division) and Griffiths injury (he’d have been very much in the first team squad) there’s no wonder we still look a bit light in attack. Give it time and don’t write it off yet or assume everything you’ve seen now will be what you will see all season.

Obviously the injuries are not helping but some of them are down to bad management from the club. The three year deal to Taylor, Anderson extending etc

It’s looking like we are, at least starting the season as a, bottom third L2 team (admittedly even I think we are likely improve). If that’s not being in trouble I don’t know what is. The clubs aspirations are automatic promotion, we are a million miles away from that.

Come on Gaz, everyone is a million miles from automatic promotion when three games into a 46 game season.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 15, 2022, 10:01:11 pm
Eh.?

Bottom third team?

Before the season started no team was bottom third, and with 5 points from three games we are clearly not.

By what measurable criteria are we a bottom third team a the start of the season?
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 15, 2022, 10:02:12 pm
The Sutton performance (and result) is very clearly unsustainable. We allowed ourselves to be harried and unsettled and didn’t impose ourselves on the game at all in the first 45 minutes. Whilst the second half was a slight improvement, few would argue we deserved the three points on the balance of play.

On Saturday I felt we put in really good first half in terms of control, especially considering it was away from home at a team that will likely be challenging in the top half. We lacked cutting edge, but I do think it’s early to pass too much judgement when you consider we’re still missing some of our main attacking threats. It’s not top level football, clubs at our level sign a player like Luke Molyneux and you want him in the team. We can’t have multiple back up players of that level. And when you consider Taylor’s prolonged absence (I honestly believe that if fit he would be one of the most dangerous players in this division) and Griffiths injury (he’d have been very much in the first team squad) there’s no wonder we still look a bit light in attack. Give it time and don’t write it off yet or assume everything you’ve seen now will be what you will see all season.

Obviously the injuries are not helping but some of them are down to bad management from the club. The three year deal to Taylor, Anderson extending etc

It’s looking like we are, at least starting the season as a, bottom third L2 team (admittedly even I think we are likely improve). If that’s not being in trouble I don’t know what is. The clubs aspirations are automatic promotion, we are a million miles away from that.

Come on Gaz, everyone is a million miles from automatic promotion when three games into a 46 game season.

I’m referring to that being based on the performances since GM took over and more worryingly the last thee games.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 15, 2022, 10:03:07 pm
Eh.?

Bottom third team?

Before the season started no team was bottom third, and with 5 points from three games we are clearly not.

By what measurable criteria are we a bottom third team a the start of the season?

Lots of measurable criteria, trust me. 
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 15, 2022, 10:05:02 pm
Go on then, explain..

Why should anyone trust you when you make such a statement without any apparent reason.?

You’ve seen the question, please answer without using riddles.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 15, 2022, 10:14:56 pm
I'm no statto but it's easy to imagine we're fairly low down the stats table given we played for 45min with 10 men at Bradford, were generally poor against Sutton, got bettered by Lincoln, and were 2-0 down v Wimbledon. Anyone can see it's all a bit last ditch. Hardly the polished performances an automatic promotion club would expect (again early days thankfully)

The stats will tell you our points per game can't continue at this level based on all our numbers so far. Thankfully this doesn't mean we won't improve. Sounded like we were better generally on Saturday so if we continue improving the stats will turn.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: dickos1 on August 15, 2022, 10:22:39 pm
The Sutton performance (and result) is very clearly unsustainable. We allowed ourselves to be harried and unsettled and didn’t impose ourselves on the game at all in the first 45 minutes. Whilst the second half was a slight improvement, few would argue we deserved the three points on the balance of play.

On Saturday I felt we put in really good first half in terms of control, especially considering it was away from home at a team that will likely be challenging in the top half. We lacked cutting edge, but I do think it’s early to pass too much judgement when you consider we’re still missing some of our main attacking threats. It’s not top level football, clubs at our level sign a player like Luke Molyneux and you want him in the team. We can’t have multiple back up players of that level. And when you consider Taylor’s prolonged absence (I honestly believe that if fit he would be one of the most dangerous players in this division) and Griffiths injury (he’d have been very much in the first team squad) there’s no wonder we still look a bit light in attack. Give it time and don’t write it off yet or assume everything you’ve seen now will be what you will see all season.

Obviously the injuries are not helping but some of them are down to bad management from the club. The three year deal to Taylor, Anderson extending etc

It’s looking like we are, at least starting the season as a, bottom third L2 team (admittedly even I think we are likely improve). If that’s not being in trouble I don’t know what is. The clubs aspirations are automatic promotion, we are a million miles away from that.

Come on Gaz, everyone is a million miles from automatic promotion when three games into a 46 game season.

I’m referring to that being based on the performances since GM took over and more worryingly the last thee games.

Bradford away, we had ten men for an hour against the favourites for the title and could easily have won it.

Sutton, we got a win when being poor,

Wimbledon, we were the better side and got a decent point.

Looking at the fixtures I’d have been delighted with 10-12 points from the first 7 games, we’ve got 5 from 3, so we’re well on course for that.

I would wager a lot of money we finish higher than 16th in the table,
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: danumdon on August 15, 2022, 10:39:48 pm
We can live and die by the stats, what they don't measure is the noticeable level of grit and resolve by this squad of players to fight their way through this difficult start, be it missing key players or promotion hopeful opponents.

The fact we are where we are after this first three matches tells me that performances are on an upward trajectory compared to last season and we are starting to get the benefit of the new management leadership team, this is something new from last season so is still unmeasured, in seven games time we will have a benchmark for the rest of the season. By that stage we expect to have a couple of important players back in the fold, improvement is not guaranteed but can be worked towards with some better resource's available added to growing understanding and partnerships in the squad.

The world does not revolve purely around Xd stats, if it did we would be handing out the medals now.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Jonathan on August 15, 2022, 10:50:29 pm
I do accept that if we’d been top of the XG table but on zero points then I’d have been vehemently defending the performances from a tirade of criticism based on the outcomes. But that’s just it isn’t it, some people only pick on the performances when the results have been good. Otherwise it’s a results game.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: mushRTID on August 15, 2022, 10:56:16 pm
I’m baffled anyone is not Impressed with how this team is now battling and fighting.

Million miles away from the team that crumbled at Morecambe and plenty of other games last season.

Everyone knows performances need to improve, and they will.

With players to come back too and an alleged tough start.

This is not meant to be a criticism of Gaz he is obviously well into his stats which is great, but to me it does appear he also enjoys forming opinions that go against the majority. Seems at times to be trying to prove people wrong all the time.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 16, 2022, 08:29:24 am
At the 0-0 game state, which is an extremely important indicator of a teams ability, only Colchester have worse underlying numbers than us. That’s pretty significant. There is obviously 45mins of football with 10 men within that and it’s very early days but there are no positive signs within the numbers. There is only so long that you can rely on spirit if  performances are not at the level they need to be. Hopefully over they next month we start to improve our output. I’ll be the first to report if we do. A return for JT and Close would certainly go some way to aiding any improvement.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: idler on August 16, 2022, 09:52:41 am
Thanks Gaz that is interesting.I'm surprised only one team has worse stats but hopefully, we can only improve.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 16, 2022, 10:15:34 am
The betting markets are saying that Stockport are about 0.7 goals per game better than us at this point in time. To put that in perspective that was about the distance between top of L2 last season and 16th.

That is what the big betting syndicates are saying is currently the case. They are generally the smartest people in football. Does it mean we can’t win? No not at all. It’s saying there’s a about 50% chance that Stockport win. So a 50% chance we get a result!
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: ForsolongaRover on August 16, 2022, 10:31:09 am
The thing that strikes me about this team is that they are still finding, or perhaps I should say establishing a style of playing. What struck me about Wellens’ team was that there was no pattern, no plan. And although things got a bit better under GMcS, he tried to build on what were unstable foundations.

His close season signings have brought the character so lacking last season. Whereas in more settled times newcomers, like the close-season signings, are fitting into an team with an established style of playing, there was no discernible style to merge with.

So as well as young players progressing with experience there is a process of building relationships and developing a style of play which to me looks nothing like Moore’s team and does not really resemble much of what we have seen in recent years.

All that I could say with a degree of confidence is that it is promising and the players look comfortable in it. Given the youthful element and the firm participation evident from those more experienced it is encouraging. Not relying on and accommodating individually gifted loan players could even be an advantage.

How good this squad will become depends on talent and leadership, but the manager seems flexible and he and Copps appear to be sensitive and “modern” in their style which should aid the positive development.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Colin C No.3 on August 16, 2022, 10:36:35 am
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We’re 3 games in with one win & two away draws.

I’ll not reiterate what Jonathan has said I’ll simply add…..get a grip man.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: normal rules on August 16, 2022, 10:55:24 am
The thing that strikes me about this team is that they are still finding, or perhaps I should say establishing a style of playing. What struck me about Wellens’ team was that there was no pattern, no plan. And although things got a bit better under GMcS, he tried to build on what were unstable foundations.

His close season signings have brought the character so lacking last season. Whereas in more settled times newcomers, like the close-season signings, are fitting into an team with an established style of playing, there was no discernible style to merge with.

So as well as young players progressing with experience there is a process of building relationships and developing a style of play which to me looks nothing like Moore’s team and does not really resemble much of what we have seen in recent years.

All that I could say with a degree of confidence is that it is promising and the players look comfortable in it. Given the youthful element and the firm participation evident from those more experienced it is encouraging. Not relying on and accommodating individually gifted loan players could even be an advantage.

How good this squad will become depends on talent and leadership, but the manager seems flexible and he and Copps appear to be sensitive and “modern” in their style which should aid the positive development.


Hits nail on head.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 16, 2022, 11:27:11 am
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We’re 3 games in with one win & two away draws.

I’ll not reiterate what Jonathan has said I’ll simply add…..get a grip man.

You don't understand what he's been saying then. The results have been good but the performances haven't and the xG/xP show the results aren't currently sustainable unless we improve our overall performances.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on August 16, 2022, 01:33:26 pm
Don’t think I’ll ever understand the fascination with XG XP or whatever other essentially meaningless stats people obsess over, to refer to the above message from DonnyOsmond specifically the results have been good but the performances haven’t, results are the only thing that will shape the table between now and May, nobody has ever been promoted via expected goals, or goal threat or anything like that, teams get promoted by still picking up points even when the form isn’t good, for my money we have seen small levels of improvement game by game of this season and we were more than value for a draw at Wimbledon, keep picking up points, keep moving forward and we will be just fine
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: dickos1 on August 16, 2022, 01:41:21 pm
The Bradford game will have massively effected these stats for us especially when only considering 3 games.
Our XG stats under Saunders would’ve been bottom half of the table.
But we ground out results, nothing wrong with that for me.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 16, 2022, 02:53:54 pm
The Bradford game will have massively effected these stats for us especially when only considering 3 games.
Our XG stats under Saunders would’ve been bottom half of the table.
But we ground out results, nothing wrong with that for me.

We have 1.8 expected points over 3 games, which is joint last. It's not all on the Bradford game.

We had a very sturdy defence under Saunders, I doubt we'd have struggled at xGA.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 16, 2022, 03:35:13 pm
Although…we are conceding at a goal a game so far (with away games being 2 of the 3 games) which is 46 goals over the season. The 2012/13 side conceded almost exactly the same, at 44 goals that season.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 16, 2022, 05:29:09 pm
Although…we are conceding at a goal a game so far (with away games being 2 of the 3 games) which is 46 goals over the season. The 2012/13 side conceded almost exactly the same, at 44 goals that season.

I think the point is, if we played these matches 10 times and performed as we have done so far, we wouldn't only concede 3 very often.

If we'd conceded 4 in the first half against Sutton we couldn't have complained.

We've shown some grit but we've also had a chunk of luck.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 16, 2022, 05:48:22 pm
Stats are great for analysing what's gone on in a game.  Coaches can see how their players rated against each other, against opponents, and others in the division.  You can look at the analysis to work out where to make improvements etc.  I think such stats can also effect a player's value for sale.

However, I don't necessarily think stats can be that useful for predictions.  Stats can't predict dodgy ref decisions (for and against), injuries during play which effect the game, unexpected sendings off, lucky/unlucky deflections etc.

If football matches went the way stats "predict" they would be very boring.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: dickos1 on August 16, 2022, 06:11:28 pm
The Bradford game will have massively effected these stats for us especially when only considering 3 games.
Our XG stats under Saunders would’ve been bottom half of the table.
But we ground out results, nothing wrong with that for me.

We have 1.8 expected points over 3 games, which is joint last. It's not all on the Bradford game.

We had a very sturdy defence under Saunders, I doubt we'd have struggled at xGA.

Sutton expected goals away from home is 0.47, amongst the lowest in the league. Yes folk say they should’ve scored 4 against us, their only away game so far this season…
Think that shows we either didn’t get battered as much as everyone thinks or these stats aren’t quite right
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 16, 2022, 06:21:20 pm
The Bradford game will have massively effected these stats for us especially when only considering 3 games.
Our XG stats under Saunders would’ve been bottom half of the table.
But we ground out results, nothing wrong with that for me.

We have 1.8 expected points over 3 games, which is joint last. It's not all on the Bradford game.

We had a very sturdy defence under Saunders, I doubt we'd have struggled at xGA.

Sutton expected goals away from home is 0.47, amongst the lowest in the league. Yes folk say they should’ve scored 4 against us, their only away game so far this season…
Think that shows we either didn’t get battered as much as everyone thinks or these stats aren’t quite right

It wasn’t, it was around 2.0 from memory.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 16, 2022, 07:22:27 pm
The Bradford game will have massively effected these stats for us especially when only considering 3 games.
Our XG stats under Saunders would’ve been bottom half of the table.
But we ground out results, nothing wrong with that for me.

We have 1.8 expected points over 3 games, which is joint last. It's not all on the Bradford game.

We had a very sturdy defence under Saunders, I doubt we'd have struggled at xGA.

Sutton expected goals away from home is 0.47, amongst the lowest in the league. Yes folk say they should’ve scored 4 against us, their only away game so far this season…
Think that shows we either didn’t get battered as much as everyone thinks or these stats aren’t quite right

It wasn’t, it was around 2.0 from memory.

I have 1.37 for us, 3.4 for them.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: dickos1 on August 16, 2022, 10:33:27 pm
Well our xg stats must’ve been through the roof tonight
Excellent performance we should’ve scored 5 or 6
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: danumdon on August 16, 2022, 10:57:10 pm
I think we can safely say the stats would of not predicted the performance and the way the match was won.

I think we can all put the stats to bed for tonight.

I'm just quite happy to stay lucky if that's the outcome we can get.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 16, 2022, 11:00:13 pm
Although…we are conceding at a goal a game so far (with away games being 2 of the 3 games) which is 46 goals over the season. The 2012/13 side conceded almost exactly the same, at 44 goals that season.

I think the point is, if we played these matches 10 times and performed as we have done so far, we wouldn't only concede 3 very often.

If we'd conceded 4 in the first half against Sutton we couldn't have complained.

We've shown some grit but we've also had a chunk of luck.

Played 4, conceded 4. Over course of a season, 45 goals.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Colin C No.3 on August 17, 2022, 09:43:14 am
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We ‘still’ in bother?
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 17, 2022, 10:17:52 am
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We ‘still’ in bother?

You're saying that after a win against 10 men so that won't give us an indication, plus up until the sending off they were probably edging it.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on August 17, 2022, 10:22:21 am
And yet again the only stat that matters is the result and our points total
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: dickos1 on August 17, 2022, 01:35:40 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We ‘still’ in bother?

You're saying that after a win against 10 men so that won't give us an indication, plus up until the sending off they were probably edging it.

You included the Bradford game though didn’t you,
Why could they give us an indication but last night woukdnt.
The way we played against ten men was far better than Bradford did against us.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: GazLaz on August 17, 2022, 01:50:57 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We ‘still’ in bother?

Yes. The fundamentals don’t change after one result. We played well against 10 men. Our best performance to date, but I don’t change my opinions on a game by game basis.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 17, 2022, 06:44:47 pm
I don't understand your opinion (stats based) as you've not explained it yet.

If your opinion is that we've not been performing well for much of the time, and won points by the skin of our teeth - well I could understand that even if I didn't agree.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Ronnie Dovers on August 18, 2022, 12:39:41 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We ‘still’ in bother?

Yes. The fundamentals don’t change after one result. We played well against 10 men. Our best performance to date, but I don’t change my opinions on a game by game basis.

You formed an extremely strong opinion based on 3 games though (2.5 if you ignore the Bradford game when we were down to 10).
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Colin C No.3 on August 20, 2022, 10:55:10 pm
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
We ‘still’ in bother?

Yes. The fundamentals don’t change after one result. We played well against 10 men. Our best performance to date, but I don’t change my opinions on a game by game basis.

‘Unsustainable results. We are in bother”.

Mmm, would you care to take another look at your ‘fundamentals’?

After 3 games it’s called ‘knee jerk’.

I’ll leave the word ‘knee’ in there for now.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: adamtherover on August 21, 2022, 09:59:14 am
Unsustainable results. We are in bother.
are the stats changing their mind yet?
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Jonathan on August 21, 2022, 10:30:00 am
It’s still very early days. Gaz has his reasons and I think he’s explained them, but in my view it was far too early to be marking us down as “in bother” after three games (and a good return from them I’ll add) taking account of all the circumstances around them. We’ve gone on to win the next two and equally it’s far too early to be getting over-excited.

We’re doing a lot of the right things and I’m happy with that. There’s a very clear culture / mentality shift that has enabled these positive results so far this season, and we just have to keep looking to chalk up the points from the really tough start we’ve had. Im not into monitoring all the XG (for or against) but I’m enjoying watching us play, and that’s good enough for me.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Colin C No.3 on August 21, 2022, 11:46:36 am
Exactly.

Posts like ‘unsustainable results & we’re in bother’ are ridiculous especially after it was posted 3 games in!

I’m enjoying watching players getting ‘involved’ & seemingly proud wearing the Rovers hoops. After last seasons ‘death by a thousand cuts’ football it’s put the smile back on my face.

So excuse me if I say I couldn’t give a monkey’s about stats because it’s results (gained by whatever means) that will have us in a position to vie for promotion come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 21, 2022, 12:34:49 pm
It’s still very early days. Gaz has his reasons and I think he’s explained them, but in my view it was far too early to be marking us down as “in bother” after three games (and a good return from them I’ll add) taking account of all the circumstances around them. We’ve gone on to win the next two and equally it’s far too early to be getting over-excited.

We’re doing a lot of the right things and I’m happy with that. There’s a very clear culture / mentality shift that has enabled these positive results so far this season, and we just have to keep looking to chalk up the points from the really tough start we’ve had. Im not into monitoring all the XG (for or against) but I’m enjoying watching us play, and that’s good enough for me.

He hasn't explained them.

The sorts of stats he's on about I see can be valid for coaches to analyse performances post-match. 

For predictions, there are too many unknown variables for such stats to be predictive.  Look at Derby yesterday at Burton - how many chances did they create so what was their expected goals measure?  Yet they scored nil.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: NickDRFC on August 21, 2022, 12:44:01 pm
It’s still very early days. Gaz has his reasons and I think he’s explained them, but in my view it was far too early to be marking us down as “in bother” after three games (and a good return from them I’ll add) taking account of all the circumstances around them. We’ve gone on to win the next two and equally it’s far too early to be getting over-excited.

We’re doing a lot of the right things and I’m happy with that. There’s a very clear culture / mentality shift that has enabled these positive results so far this season, and we just have to keep looking to chalk up the points from the really tough start we’ve had. Im not into monitoring all the XG (for or against) but I’m enjoying watching us play, and that’s good enough for me.

He hasn't explained them.

The sorts of stats he's on about I see can be valid for coaches to analyse performances post-match. 

For predictions, there are too many unknown variables for such stats to be predictive.  Look at Derby yesterday at Burton - how many chances did they create so what was their expected goals measure?  Yet they scored nil.

Disagree, you’ll get outliers in individual matches but over the course of the season a team with consistently high xGF and low xGC will do well.

That said saying “we are in bother” after 3 games is also daft, far too small a sample size.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: Jonathan on August 21, 2022, 06:13:57 pm
It’s still very early days. Gaz has his reasons and I think he’s explained them, but in my view it was far too early to be marking us down as “in bother” after three games (and a good return from them I’ll add) taking account of all the circumstances around them. We’ve gone on to win the next two and equally it’s far too early to be getting over-excited.

We’re doing a lot of the right things and I’m happy with that. There’s a very clear culture / mentality shift that has enabled these positive results so far this season, and we just have to keep looking to chalk up the points from the really tough start we’ve had. Im not into monitoring all the XG (for or against) but I’m enjoying watching us play, and that’s good enough for me.

He hasn't explained them.

The sorts of stats he's on about I see can be valid for coaches to analyse performances post-match. 

For predictions, there are too many unknown variables for such stats to be predictive.  Look at Derby yesterday at Burton - how many chances did they create so what was their expected goals measure?  Yet they scored nil.

Disagree, you’ll get outliers in individual matches but over the course of the season a team with consistently high xGF and low xGC will do well.

That said saying “we are in bother” after 3 games is also daft, far too small a sample size.

I think the argument is that the sample stretches back long before this season began. But I fundamentally disagree with the value in that. There’s been a very significant change in personnel and shift in culture this summer, and it’s a new start. We’ve started very well and I feel there’s a lot more to come from this team.

No point looking back now. We need to stick together through all of the ups and downs we’ll face in the course of this season.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 21, 2022, 07:32:52 pm
I think all those who stayed to applaud every single player off the pitch, which there were more than I've seen for years, don't give two hoots about the stats. The stats don't reflect the performance.

You could be forgiven for thinking Tomlin might go missing when the going got tough, but far from it, he got stuck in too playing a more disciplined role when he had to.

Players often say the squad is together but the way they all celebrated at the end, inc injured players such as Olowu, shows there's bonds being formed. Great to see.

That togetherness is huge!
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: RobTheRover on August 21, 2022, 08:22:39 pm
I've never got the value of xG, Gaz.   Can you tell me how it's calculated please,  if you know?  Every match i check in Fotmob whilst it's in play rarely has an actual score that resembles the xG
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 21, 2022, 11:38:38 pm
In fairness, I suspect our xG yesterday was something like 0.5.

We created very few clear cut chances. Hurst's first goal was a bit of a freak, and his second was an excellent finish, rather than a stone cold unmissable chance.

That's fine as long as we keep taking chances. But I couldn't blame anyone who concludes that we've probably overperformed on results so far, compared to chances made and allowed.

But then we've had a bloody tough start to the season. Be interesting to see how the next two months pans out as the (on paper) difficulty of matches starts to level off.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 21, 2022, 11:49:33 pm
Looks like I'm wrong again. Our xG yesterday was 1.4. Which is baffling compared to Sutton's xG of 0.52 against us. They created more clear cut goalscoring chances against us in the first 40 mins than we did all the match yesterday.
Title: Re: Stat time
Post by: IDM on August 22, 2022, 08:02:30 am
Sounds to me like that stat is one which is generated by the action in the game just happening/happened.  Therefore coaches could analyse why a team didn't score as many as they should have, poor finishing, better than expected goalkeeping?

However the circumstances and contexts of the following game are always different, which is why I argue that such stats are meaningless for predictions.

You don't need stats to tell you that if we're nicking results whilst playing badly, then its likely results will worsen if performances don't improve.  But the stats from those poorer games won't explain nor predict when  the performance will improve.