Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Mike_F on November 10, 2022, 02:18:43 pm
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I saw on the news yesterday that numerous journalists in a totalitarian state were arrested, searched and bound into custody whilst authoritarian police officers ransacked their homes while their families looked on in fear.
The alleged crimes committed were "suspicion of conspiracy" to cause public nuisance So the police were within their rights to arrest and detain anyone they chose to based on a hunch that they might potentially be thinking about planning to do something disruptive.
The journalists in question were doing their job of reporting on a protest and showed the police their press credentials but they were still wrongfully arrested, bundled into vans and taken away.
I don't want to sound sensationalist but could you imagine this sort of thing taking place in the UK??
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Never! police arrest journalists in UK they don't even arrest that many burglars.
''Just Stop Oil: Reporter speaks about her arrest at M25 protest''
''A broadcast journalist said she was handcuffed and in police custody for five hours after being arrested while reporting on a Just Stop Oil protest.
LBC reporter Charlotte Lynch said she was on a road bridge over the M25 in Hertfordshire on Tuesday.
She said she was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit a public nuisance, before being released''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-63569177
A of course the rabid braverman wants the police to get tougher on those trying to save the planet.
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I firmly believe that we need to do whatever we can to protect the planet for our children. I don't necessarily agree with the methods used by the likes of Just Stop Oil in their protests but the event on which the press were reporting is irrelevant here.
It's the fact that journalists going about their lawful business were arrested, detained, subjected to searches, had DNA harvested and their families intimidated that highlights how extreme this country has become. It's fascism and it's worryingly normal.
Piece by piece the Tories have eroded civil rights and freedoms over the last twelve years.
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It's going to take a series of good governments a long time to reverse the damage inflicted over these past 12 years and the press/media have a lot to answer for themselves in inaccurate, lazy and deliberately misleading reporting (another issue) but arresting journalists is beyond belief.
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If they have any sense they will sue for wrongful arrest, detention, plus excessive and un necessary use of force for those that were handcuffed.
Should be a nice tidy claim.
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Hmm! Whilst I agree with the sentiments expressed here I would also suggest that you scratch below the surface with regard to some of these claims. The reason the Police have been heavy handed here is that these ‘journalists’ appear to be in cohorts with the protesters, that’s why they knew where to be and when, and that they aren’t genuine journalists.
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If protesters are tipping off journalists as to where and when an 'action' is to occur that is not necessarily being ''in cohorts'' SM. Haven't followed all of it but the journalist I saw claiming to have been arrested worked for a media company not sure that matters anyway they could be a vblogger or a citizen journalist, no?
Most organised actions I've been involved with have had a expansive list of journo's that are contacted immediately everyone was in position, plus we would have legal observers that do not get involved but are up to speed with all legal obligations and ensure everything is recoded and liaise with police or whomever if required. Further to that we are all trained in non violent direct action (nvda)
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Hmm! Whilst I agree with the sentiments expressed here I would also suggest that you scratch below the surface with regard to some of these claims. The reason the Police have been heavy handed here is that these ‘journalists’ appear to be in cohorts with the protesters, that’s why they knew where to be and when, and that they aren’t genuine journalists.
Wow. Patel has really shifted the Overton Window on this one...
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Hmm! Whilst I agree with the sentiments expressed here I would also suggest that you scratch below the surface with regard to some of these claims. The reason the Police have been heavy handed here is that these ‘journalists’ appear to be in cohorts with the protesters, that’s why they knew where to be and when, and that they aren’t genuine journalists.
Every journalist reporting a story, unless they happened to be there by pure chance, has been 'tipped off' by someone.
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Hmm! Whilst I agree with the sentiments expressed here I would also suggest that you scratch below the surface with regard to some of these claims. The reason the Police have been heavy handed here is that these ‘journalists’ appear to be in cohorts with the protesters, that’s why they knew where to be and when, and that they aren’t genuine journalists.
Wow. Patel has really shifted the Overton Window on this one...
Don’t talk so wet. I’m not a political individual like you obviously are.
I’m not defending anyone involved in this, just that you should scratch below the surface. It was a suggestion to look further rather than just accepting the comments made by those arrested.
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Hmm! Whilst I agree with the sentiments expressed here I would also suggest that you scratch below the surface with regard to some of these claims. The reason the Police have been heavy handed here is that these ‘journalists’ appear to be in cohorts with the protesters, that’s why they knew where to be and when, and that they aren’t genuine journalists.
Wow. Patel has really shifted the Overton Window on this one...
Don’t talk so wet. I’m not a political individual like you obviously are.
I’m not defending anyone involved in this, just that you should scratch below the surface. It was a suggestion to look further rather than just accepting the comments made by those arrested.
The Chief Constable of Herts has said the arrests shouldn't have happened.
One of the "non-genuine journalists" is a regular broadcaster on LBC.
If you are going to post politically opinionated, factually questionable and selectively partial stuff like you did, you should be prepared to be taken to task for it.
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And by the Overton Window comment, I meant that it would have been inconceivable previously for journalists to have been arrested for this "offence". Yet here we are. Journalists are arrested and someone as usually sensible as you piles in to justify it.
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I wasn’t justifying anything. I just suggested there was more to it than meets the eye.
And it wasn’t motivated by anything political despite your protestations. I am repeating myself here but I’m not in the slightest bit interested in politics. I might lean to the left but that’s as far as it goes.
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You suggested that the journalists weren't "genuine". They are.
That was what prompted my Overton Window comment. Politicians like Patel operate by making the previously unthinkable, mainstream. I was, frankly, astonished by your post. It came acriss to me as a classic example of how Overton Window-shifting works.
There is no evidence that the journalists are "not genuine" and that that somehow excuses their arrest. But if comments like yours aren't challenged, that sort of thinking becomes received wisdom, and the politicians who nudge society in that direction have done their job.
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BST, Observation, it comes across as wanting to challenge each and every subject matter know to man, right or wrong.
I'm dreading the time and effort you will be injecting into this section when Labour come to power, you'll be spending so much time micro analysing ever facet of their administration that i'm sure you'll be in a stress induced coma by the end of it all.
Get yourself out for some fresh air and walk your dog.
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Shutting down the media is what has happened in russia
''Two journalists arrested at a Just Stop Oil protest on Monday (November 7) have told Byline Times they believe they were deliberately targeted in an effort to disrupt coverage of the climate campaign group.
Photographer Tom Bowles and filmmaker Rich Felgate were attending Monday’s Just Stop Oil shutdown of the M25 motorway – and were both arrested within 10 minutes of the police’s arrival, despite offering to show officers their press cards. It follows a similar arrest of LBC reporter Charlotte Lynch covering Just Stop Oil on Tuesday.
All three journalists were arrested under “suspicion of conspiracy to commit a public nuisance.” It is a new crime that was brought into law this year through the controversial Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act and faces prison time of up to ten years in jail''
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/11/they-know-who-i-am-they-know-what-im-doing-arrested-journalists-speak-out-over-new-policing-act/
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I saw an interesting video the other day. Don’t know how true it was. It said that protesters had done similar things in Germany. They had entered some buildings and glued their hands tongue floor. According to the video it wasn’t an issue. Work continued and at the end of the day they locked up went home turned the lights out and left them glued to the floor.
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Some people appear to be missing the point here.
In the UK in 2022, under Johnson's Poice and Crime Act the police can arrest people not for actually doing anything criminal - but for telling the public what they can see. Reporting what the police and government don't like is a crime.
Although then again maybe they aren't missing the point - maybe they agree with these things because they feel it wont ever affect them.
'First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist...'
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Some people appear to be missing the point here.
In the UK in 2022, under Johnson's Poice and Crime Act the police can arrest people not for actually doing anything criminal - but for telling the public what they can see. Reporting what the police and government don't like is a crime.
Although then again maybe they aren't missing the point - maybe they agree with these things because they feel it wont ever affect them.
'First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist...'
Yes you are right Wilts we are living in a totalitarian Police state, just get into a situation where you need one , ring 999 and just sit back and wait half a week for one to arrive if your’e
Lucky.
Better still if you as not happy with the Police and need to ring for help JUST RING YOUR CRACK DEALER!
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
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Good job they can go and use their free speech on Twitter then, Sydney / BST?
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
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Billy,Wilts and Sydsers. Please put the Police state to the test. Go and Gorilla Glue your hands to your front doors and wait to see how long it is before you are either Arrested or Molested
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
maybe it would help if you went back and read all the comments sprot
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Billy,Wilts and Sydsers. Please put the Police state to the test. Go and Gorilla Glue your hands to your front doors and wait to see how long it is before you are either Arrested or Molested
Sproty
With respect, I think you're rather missing the point here.
The Chief Constable of Herts has said that his officers made the wrong call.
So literally no-one is saying the police are out of control.
The point is, that before Patel brought in a new law, there'd have been no call to make. Because arresting journalists covering a story would have been something that police wouldn't have even considered.
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Billy,Wilts and Sydsers. Please put the Police state to the test. Go and Gorilla Glue your hands to your front doors and wait to see how long it is before you are either Arrested or Molested
Why? You wont ever know about it because no-one will want to report on it for fear of arrest.
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Billy,Wilts and Sydsers. Please put the Police state to the test. Go and Gorilla Glue your hands to your front doors and wait to see how long it is before you are either Arrested or Molested
Sproty
With respect, I think you're rather missing the point here.
The Chief Constable of Herts has said that his officers made the wrong call.
So literally no-one is saying the police are out of control.
The point is, that before Patel brought in a new law, there'd have been no call to make. Because arresting journalists covering a story would have been something that police wouldn't have even considered.
Oh he's not missing the point. As I said it's what some people want.
Now what sort of people want to live in a fascist state...
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Moscow upon the Don
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Hey if I wanted to live in a fascist state I would find one! A Film called The lives of others is what a fascist state is like to live in, watch the film there is no comparison to this country of ours and the DDR
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
1. There was at least one regular LBC reporter amongst those arrested. I don't know the backgrounds of the others but they clearly weren't all "journo activists."
2. They were locked up for several hours.
3. Whilst in custody, home were searched with children present. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for them?
4. Regardless of their political views, they were journalists reporting on a significant event. It was absolutely wrong for police officers to intervene in their work let alone consider them to be fair targets for arrest and detention.
And as for your later comment on comparison to the DDR, Fascism doesn't smash its way in through the front door, it creeps up step by step. Normalising oppression of the free press is a significant step and one that we wouldn't have reached without numerous small changes over a period of years. If you can't or wilfully won't see that there's not much point talking to you.
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Is it just me or does it seem these days that every time the Police get something horribly wrong(just like this) they have the opportunity of using the Government of the day as the reason for its many miscalculations and inadequateness
I was going to say if they every get something right they would claim superior Police operational tactics came to the fore, but im struggling to think of when this last happened.
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DD
If the Govt hadn't passed a law making such an arrest possible, the arrests wouldn't have happened.
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DD
If the Govt hadn't passed a law making such an arrest possible, the arrests wouldn't have happened.
The Goverment have a great many laws that are available for the Police to use, breach of the peace and civil obstruction are just two. Wonder why the choose to not use them?
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Because the journalists weren't committing obstruction or breach of the peace.
They were arrested for "suspicion of conspiracy to commit a public nuisance".
That is a massive cover-all definition which, in principle, makes it illegal to do anything which might assist a group doing anything that the police decides is inconveniencing the public.
In this case, the police at the scene decided that journalists reporting what was happening were effectively assisting the protestors.
The journalists weren't part of the protest. They weren't causing a nuisance themselves. They were arrested for reporting the news.
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Because the journalists weren't committing obstruction or breach of the peace.
They were arrested for "suspicion of conspiracy to commit a public nuisance".
I was talking about the operational role of the Police in general, not this particular case.
We have a great many laws that can lead to someone being arrested, the police cherry pick which ones suit their narrative.
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And I'm saying those journalists would never have been arrested before Patel's Law got on the statute books. Because they were doing nothing that remotely resembled what we considered to be a crime previously.
That answers your comment about the Govt getting the blame.
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Its ironic that they were arrested for "suspicion of conspiracy to commit a public nuisance"
When we have individuals guilty of the same offence but with no suspicion attached getting off scott free.
If the Police can't or wont use the vast arsenal of current laws available to maintain the peace then operationally they are not fit for purpose.
Could it be the case that particular law that was introduced by Patel due to this inability of the Police to carry out their statutory requirement.
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What in the name of actual f**k?
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
1. There was at least one regular LBC reporter amongst those arrested. I don't know the backgrounds of the others but they clearly weren't all "journo activists."
2. They were locked up for several hours.
3. Whilst in custody, home were searched with children present. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for them?
4. Regardless of their political views, they were journalists reporting on a significant event. It was absolutely wrong for police officers to intervene in their work let alone consider them to be fair targets for arrest and detention.
And as for your later comment on comparison to the DDR, Fascism doesn't smash its way in through the front door, it creeps up step by step. Normalising oppression of the free press is a significant step and one that we wouldn't have reached without numerous small changes over a period of years. If you can't or wilfully won't see that there's not much point talking to you.
I just can't believe the condescending nature of this post mike, just re read the crap you have posted including your OP ,rabbiting on like some beardy t**t lecturer at uni,I doubt you parents ever smacked you as a child it shows in your posts!
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condescending hmmmm
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
1. There was at least one regular LBC reporter amongst those arrested. I don't know the backgrounds of the others but they clearly weren't all "journo activists."
2. They were locked up for several hours.
3. Whilst in custody, home were searched with children present. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for them?
4. Regardless of their political views, they were journalists reporting on a significant event. It was absolutely wrong for police officers to intervene in their work let alone consider them to be fair targets for arrest and detention.
And as for your later comment on comparison to the DDR, Fascism doesn't smash its way in through the front door, it creeps up step by step. Normalising oppression of the free press is a significant step and one that we wouldn't have reached without numerous small changes over a period of years. If you can't or wilfully won't see that there's not much point talking to you.
I just can't believe the condescending nature of this post mike, just re read the crap you have posted including your OP ,rabbiting on like some beardy t**t lecturer at uni,I doubt you parents ever smacked you as a child it shows in your posts!
siri/alexa - show me a definition of condescending
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
1. There was at least one regular LBC reporter amongst those arrested. I don't know the backgrounds of the others but they clearly weren't all "journo activists."
2. They were locked up for several hours.
3. Whilst in custody, home were searched with children present. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for them?
4. Regardless of their political views, they were journalists reporting on a significant event. It was absolutely wrong for police officers to intervene in their work let alone consider them to be fair targets for arrest and detention.
And as for your later comment on comparison to the DDR, Fascism doesn't smash its way in through the front door, it creeps up step by step. Normalising oppression of the free press is a significant step and one that we wouldn't have reached without numerous small changes over a period of years. If you can't or wilfully won't see that there's not much point talking to you.
I just can't believe the condescending nature of this post mike, just re read the crap you have posted including your OP ,rabbiting on like some beardy t**t lecturer at uni,I doubt you parents ever smacked you as a child it shows in your posts!
siri/alexa - show me a definition of condescending
Sir/Alexa give me a definition of Childish?
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Yes it does appear some are missing the point wilts, as has been said you can be arrested for being a bystander to events an eyewitness.
Here's an example of why press freedom is important
''Ukraine war: Russians kept in the dark by internet search''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63246153
Just WHAT??? has this got to do with some journo activists being locked up for possibly 90 minutes max in the UK?
1. There was at least one regular LBC reporter amongst those arrested. I don't know the backgrounds of the others but they clearly weren't all "journo activists."
2. They were locked up for several hours.
3. Whilst in custody, home were searched with children present. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for them?
4. Regardless of their political views, they were journalists reporting on a significant event. It was absolutely wrong for police officers to intervene in their work let alone consider them to be fair targets for arrest and detention.
And as for your later comment on comparison to the DDR, Fascism doesn't smash its way in through the front door, it creeps up step by step. Normalising oppression of the free press is a significant step and one that we wouldn't have reached without numerous small changes over a period of years. If you can't or wilfully won't see that there's not much point talking to you.
I just can't believe the condescending nature of this post mike, just re read the crap you have posted including your OP ,rabbiting on like some beardy t**t lecturer at uni,I doubt you parents ever smacked you as a child it shows in your posts!
siri/alexa - show me a definition of condescending
Sir/Alexa give me a definition of Childish?
A person calling another poster condescending then complaining when it's pointed out how condescending their post is.
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I don't mind criticism but not from childish posters!
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Sproty:
I was smacked as a child. Probably more so than any of my peers; my parents were very strict.
What that has to to do with me pointing out that you were clearly wrong in your assertions that the people arrested were "Journo activists" and that they were held "for a maximum of 90 minutes" I'm really not sure.
I was never academically inclined enough to become a "beardy t**t lecturer" but if you think I've demonstrated the level of critical thinking and intelligence necessary to make a living from academia I'll happily take the compliment.
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I was never academically inclined enough to become a "beardy t**t lecturer"
That’s good to hear Mike, all you have to do now is to stop acting like one.
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Senior officers doing the government's bidding?
''Their arrests were instead directed by more senior officers at Hertfordshire constabulary, who had formulated a policing plan that failed to take into account the likelihood that journalists may be on the scene, the review said''
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/nov/23/senior-officers-ordered-unlawful-arrests-of-journalists-at-just-stop-oil-protests