Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: belton rover on November 23, 2022, 07:43:04 pm
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I can’t help thinking that discussion about the football is getting lost on the other thread - though I agree it’s a topic worth debating.
But let’s just enjoy, on this thread, what is already becoming a fascinating tournament.
Right now, I am watching Canada battering Belgium, without making it count.
Germany lose to Japan.
Argentina to Saudi Arabia.
England, France and Spain looking good.
I am thoroughly enjoying this so far.
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I’m with you Belton, let’s leave the politics in the other thread, as much as it’s needed to be discussed. The football has actually been great, hardly any negativity
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Really enjoyed the football so far, barring the nil nil this morning.
Scoreline harsh on Canada so far, to say the least. Hope they get something out of this.
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It seems none of the teams have resorted to the ultra-defensive tactics we've seen in the past to avoid defeat. It's been a very open tournament so far and by actually attacking the big teams the littler ones are getting results here and there.
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It seems none of the teams have resorted to the ultra-defensive tactics we've seen in the past to avoid defeat. It's been a very open tournament so far and by actually attacking the big teams the littler ones are getting results here and there.
Which, I think, has led to thrashings and upsets.
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If Kanes ankle isn’t too bad we could have a decent run. We’ve got to find a way of playing Foden though. He’s world class
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Let’s see what Brazil and Portugal look like tomorrow
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It seems none of the teams have resorted to the ultra-defensive tactics we've seen in the past to avoid defeat. It's been a very open tournament so far and by actually attacking the big teams the littler ones are getting results here and there.
In the first 40 minutes of the Wales USA match, the ball was in the USA 1/3rd of the pitch for 1.8% of the time.
That was THE most ultra-defensive set up I have ever seen.
I gather it improved after half time, but I'd had a gut full after 45 minutes. The absolute antithesis of what football should be.
Canada tonight we're an absolute joy to watch.
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Billy I'm disagreeing with you in Off Topic but here we're in complete accord.
The Welsh tactics in that first half were absolutely ridiculous - and against a team, as it showed in the 2nd half when they changed tack, they were more than capable of beating.
The Welsh manager cost them a potential 2 points there and an almost certain place in Round 2 given they have Qatar next.
As underdogs both Canada and Saudi Arabia (though they understandably sat back more after going ahead) in contrast had wonderfully adventurous approaches. They were a joy to watch. It was great to see the Saudis rewarded and a disappointment to see Canada fall short. Very refreshing.
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Did anyone notice the pass by a Belgian player into his own penalty area to his left back in the box.
The pass went direct to a Canadian who had a shooting chance but was given offside.
He was in an offside position but the ball was passed by a Belgian defender.
A couple of the Canadians objected but were brushed aside.
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Did anyone notice the pass by a Belgian player into his own penalty area to his left back in the box.
The pass went direct to a Canadian who had a shooting chance but was given offside.
He was in an offside position but the ball was passed by a Belgian defender.
A couple of the Canadians objected but were brushed aside.
Yes I noticed that, Selby. Even the commentary team seemed to miss it as they thought the Canadians were going mad for a penalty.
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Billy I'm disagreeing with you in Off Topic but here we're in complete accord.
The Welsh tactics in that first half were absolutely ridiculous - and against a team, as it showed in the 2nd half when they changed tack, they were more than capable of beating.
The Welsh manager cost them a potential 2 points there and an almost certain place in Round 2 given they have Qatar next.
As underdogs both Canada and Saudi Arabia (though they understandably sat back more after going ahead) in contrast had wonderfully adventurous approaches. They were a joy to watch. It was great to see the Saudis rewarded and a disappointment to see Canada fall short. Very refreshing.
Wales have Iran next, not Quatar, they're in our group.
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Great to talk about the football. Agree, it's been thoroughly absorbing.
Always great to see the unfancied teams going at it.
The use of five subs is going to be crucial in games as we get to the business end of the tournament.
Also pleased to see the stoppages are being added on properly. Refereeing has generally been good up to now.
If only Canada still had Roy Wegerle or Iain Hulme in front of goal, Belgium would have been beaten tonight.
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Wegerle was a 41-cap US international player.
Two of the top three all time goalscorers for Canada played tonight, in David and Larin.
Hume was a good player for us, but managed 6 international goals in his career, while David (22) and Larin (25) have somewhat more.
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Did anyone notice the pass by a Belgian player into his own penalty area to his left back in the box.
The pass went direct to a Canadian who had a shooting chance but was given offside.
He was in an offside position but the ball was passed by a Belgian defender.
A couple of the Canadians objected but were brushed aside.
Yep, I saw that. What on earth is the point of VAR if it doesn't overturn such a blatantly wrong decision as that?
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The Welsh manager cost them a potential 2 points there and an almost certain place in Round 2 given they have Qatar next.
Have they moved Wales out of group B?
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Billy I'm disagreeing with you in Off Topic but here we're in complete accord.
The Welsh tactics in that first half were absolutely ridiculous - and against a team, as it showed in the 2nd half when they changed tack, they were more than capable of beating.
The Welsh manager cost them a potential 2 points there and an almost certain place in Round 2 given they have Qatar next.
I'm in agreement. Not sure if I'd put the blame solely on Rob Page, but there was certainly a tactical naivety in how Wales went about the game. That first half was the worst I've seen us play in years, and was at odds with how we've approached 'big' teams in qualifying.
Most Wales fans I know seem absolutely delighted we've grabbed a point (which I am given how bad that first half was), but my main feeling post match is disappointment that we didn't show what we're capable of a team, and that as a result we've missed a really good chance to get three points on the board. As it is, given we're highly unlikely to get anything against England, we've left ourselves in a position where even if we beat Iran on Friday, we're likely to be relying on other results to progress.
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That Michael Sheen speech stuck in their minds though. If you listened really hard in the first half of that Wales match, you could just gear James and Bale up front whispering to the rest of the team "Yma o hyd".
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That Michael Sheen speech stuck in their minds though. If you listened really hard in the first half of that Wales match, you could just gear James and Bale up front whispering to the rest of the team "Yma o hyd".
Just put on another thread that I was laughing at the the English commentator mixing up 'Land of my Fathers' and Max Boyce's 'Hymns and Arias' and Dafydd Iwan's 'Yma o Hyd'
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Did anyone notice the pass by a Belgian player into his own penalty area to his left back in the box.
The pass went direct to a Canadian who had a shooting chance but was given offside.
He was in an offside position but the ball was passed by a Belgian defender.
A couple of the Canadians objected but were brushed aside.
Yep, I saw that. What on earth is the point of VAR if it doesn't overturn such a blatantly wrong decision as that?
Yes, but out of interest what on earth could the sanction have been? Do the laws cover the situation? Can't award a penalty or free-kick. Uncontested drop ball to Canada in Belgian penalty box? Where are Belgian defenders allowed to be for that?
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Wegerle was a 41-cap US international player.
Two of the top three all time goalscorers for Canada played tonight, in David and Larin.
Hume was a good player for us, but managed 6 international goals in his career, while David (22) and Larin (25) have somewhat more.
Thanks for the correction. My memory is definitely going!
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Billy I'm disagreeing with you in Off Topic but here we're in complete accord.
The Welsh tactics in that first half were absolutely ridiculous - and against a team, as it showed in the 2nd half when they changed tack, they were more than capable of beating.
The Welsh manager cost them a potential 2 points there and an almost certain place in Round 2 given they have Qatar next.
I'm in agreement. Not sure if I'd put the blame solely on Rob Page, but there was certainly a tactical naivety in how Wales went about the game. That first half was the worst I've seen us play in years, and was at odds with how we've approached 'big' teams in qualifying.
Most Wales fans I know seem absolutely delighted we've grabbed a point (which I am given how bad that first half was), but my main feeling post match is disappointment that we didn't show what we're capable of a team, and that as a result we've missed a really good chance to get three points on the board. As it is, given we're highly unlikely to get anything against England, we've left ourselves in a position where even if we beat Iran on Friday, we're likely to be relying on other results to progress.
Totally agree with that assessment Viva
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Did anyone notice the pass by a Belgian player into his own penalty area to his left back in the box.
The pass went direct to a Canadian who had a shooting chance but was given offside.
He was in an offside position but the ball was passed by a Belgian defender.
A couple of the Canadians objected but were brushed aside.
Yep, I saw that. What on earth is the point of VAR if it doesn't overturn such a blatantly wrong decision as that?
Yes, but out of interest what on earth could the sanction have been? Do the laws cover the situation? Can't award a penalty or free-kick. Uncontested drop ball to Canada in Belgian penalty box? Where are Belgian defenders allowed to be for that?
I don't see why you can't award a penalty. The flag went up before the contact by the defender, but the ref hadn't blown before the contact. So the play was still live. The striker wasn't offside. and the defender fouled him. It's a penalty.
EDIT: Just read that Vertongen got the tiniest toe end on the ball before he made contact with the Canadian striker. Presumably that is why VAR didn't intervene.
OF course, if FIFA wasn't so obsessive about protecting its IP on the videos of games, we'd be able to go back and look at videos of these incidents ourselves. As it is, it's impossible to find videos online because IP infringements are ferociously chased down.
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Thanks BST. I didn’t actually see the incident and didn’t realise play had continued and a possible penalty decision arose. I had assumed the Canadian player was in a goal scoring position and the game stopped for offside. That would have been be a difficult one to ‘correct’
Of course with VAR they always delay offside decisions so it shouldn’t happen :lol:
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It was all very quick DU. Hazard was on the edge of the box. Played a backpass to Vertongen in the area, but actually played it to Buchanan in an offside position. Vertongen then slid in on him. Whole thing took about a second, with the flag going up very quickly, but the ref not having time to blow.
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The best result for England would really be a win tomorrow and Wales/Iran draw. That would give England the opportunity to rest Kane and others for the final group game which could be a big advantage. Still, it's the world cup there will be twists to come and the USA/Wales can play very well on their day.
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Is it just me or does anyone else think Neymar is the most overrated player to pull on a Brazilian shirt?
Brazil are better off without him as play much better as a team.
Well, so far after first round of games, I think the most impressive teams are Spain, Brazil, France and England. I didn't think I'd be saying that last week. Of course, it can all change.
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What a cracking goal from Richarlison tonight.
I'd fancy us to beat Brazil if it came to it. Go a bit more direct and get 10 yards up the pitch. Don't fancy us out footballing them but we could bully them.
5-3-2 would be the one for me.
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Is it just me or does anyone else think Neymar is the most overrated player to pull on a Brazilian shirt?
Brazil are better off without him as play much better as a team.
Well, so far after first round of games, I think the most impressive teams are Spain, Brazil, France and England. I didn't think I'd be saying that last week. Of course, it can all change.
This is correct.
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Not much between these 2 so far.
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That first half is making the England performance look even better
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Not much between these 2 so far.
Not much between these 2 so far.
No, I fear Iran look more likely in front of goal though.
& just as am typing they hit the post twice.
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I have to admit to not watching Wales often, but if their performances so far at this WC are anything to go by, I'd be confident of an England win next week. Iran looking the better team here in this second half. It's looking like if you nullify Kieffer Moore and his hold-up play you've got a good chance against this Wales team.
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Wales need to realise that bale and Ramsey no longer offer enough. Bale scores 1 pen and is labelled the hero. Ramsey walking all game.
Don't get why Wilson was took off. Should of been Ramsey with Wilson dropping into midfield
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Iran are getting well on top now.
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The thing is Wales will lift their game a 1000% against England. England need to take the emotion out of the game.
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Bale has been a passenger. Ramsey I don’t remember having distribution this poor. They’re not entirely convincing but the two big units at the back probably look the best of a very average bunch this game.
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Lucky, lucky boy Hennessy
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If that's not a red card, they need to do away with red cards.
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Correct decision in the end, no idea why the ref didn’t give it in the first place
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Wales have been very disappointing from the kick off. Poor.
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Quietest fans at the world cup so far too :byebye:
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Wales haven't had the fitness levels needed. They've all been towing all 2nd half.
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Again it makes Englands performance against Iran that more impressive
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As poor as we have been at times this season we would have beaten Wales today.
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I think that means and England win tonight and we've won the group? A defeat makes it interesting.
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Wales to put it bluntly were crap
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Wales stank the place out in the second half. Not very good at all.
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Can a Welsh pundit man up and say it how it is. Wales were woeful and carry players who are past it. Ashley Williams "Iran probably just edged the 2nd half and I'm gutted for the lads"? Get a grip.
And now saying was better when Allen was on. He was the 1 who gave a shit clearence to allow the Iranian to bang in the 1st goal.
Get your heads out of your arses banging on that we are a small nation and proud we are here. You got beat by Iran. F*****g iran. Not a England, France or Brazil.
Drop bale, Ramsey, and leave out Allen for England game. Old timers who can't run. Bring in young hungry players. Some with fight
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I love the Welsh anthem, and that's about it. All the pundits were waxing lyrical about the Welsh team before the game, as though they only had to turn up.
They were lucky to get a draw with the USA, and then today they were appalling against Iran, who could have had 4 or 5 goals.
I'd like the USA to come second in the group, but I honestly believe it will be Iran.
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When keifer Moore (born in Torquay), comes out and says he can't wait to beat England, wtf, talk about setting your self up for a fall!!!
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I think that means and England win tonight and we've won the group? A defeat makes it interesting.
Not quite, BFYP. An England win tonight puts us on 6 points, but Iran can still get 6 points if they beat the USA.
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I think that means and England win tonight and we've won the group? A defeat makes it interesting.
Not quite, BFYP. An England win tonight puts us on 6 points, but Iran can still get 6 points if they beat the USA.
Is head to head or goal difference the decider? If it’s GD, a win by a goal tonight would put us on +5 and Iran are on -2. Would need quite the goal swing would be needed for them to top the group, I’d say you can file that one under extremely unlikely.
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I think that means and England win tonight and we've won the group? A defeat makes it interesting.
Not quite, BFYP. An England win tonight puts us on 6 points, but Iran can still get 6 points if they beat the USA.
Is head to head or goal difference the decider? If it’s GD, a win by a goal tonight would put us on +5 and Iran are on -2. Would need quite the goal swing would be needed for them to top the group, I’d say you can file that one under extremely unlikely.
I'd forgot all about head to head, Nick. It probably is that, and if so, BFYP is right, and I'll have to hold my hand up to him.
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I think that means and England win tonight and we've won the group? A defeat makes it interesting.
Not quite, BFYP. An England win tonight puts us on 6 points, but Iran can still get 6 points if they beat the USA.
Is head to head or goal difference the decider? If it’s GD, a win by a goal tonight would put us on +5 and Iran are on -2. Would need quite the goal swing would be needed for them to top the group, I’d say you can file that one under extremely unlikely.
I'd forgot all about head to head, Nick. It probably is that, and if so, BFYP is right, and I'll have to hold my hand up to him.
I believe its goal difference that is the decider
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That first half England too slow and very little movement, I fear Southgate has told them to stay solid, too conservative in their approach
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We’ve been the exact opposite of what we were in the first game, nothing but tactics is the problem, why is Foden on the bench and Mount on the pitch?
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We’ve been the exact opposite of what we were in the first game, nothing but tactics is the problem, why is Foden on the bench and Mount on the pitch?
Only Southgate can answer that as I am as baffled as you.
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Well that was f**king rubbish, typical Southgate approach, too cautious
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Why didn't usa throw that last free kick into the box? Last kick of the game they couldn't lose it. Yanks must be dumb coz if they now don't beat Iran they are out where as nicking a win there and they could afford a draw with Iran
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Feck off Southgate you fraud and the rest of your spineless team .
Joke of a nation .
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Not great but clean sheet and we are basically now through, to play one of three fairly average teams in next round. It's really not a disaster.
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Why Foden didn’t come on for Mount is a total mystery.
Has he upset Southgate. We have a prodigious talent who hasn’t kicked a ball yet.
If he was BrazilIan, French or Spanish he would be starting games never mind coming on as sub.
Southgate is only interested in not conceding. He was not happy winning 6-2 on Monday.
Too negative. Our strength is our attacking players so we should play to our strengths.
What are we going to do against the top teams? Bit concerned now. On Monday I thought we might have a team that’s going to go all the way..
Southgate you have the players that could win the World Cup. Don’t blow this opportunity and go out by being too cautious.
He who dares WINS.
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That was cack, but it's job done as far as qualification is concerned. I think the only way England fail to qualify is if they lose to Wales by 4 goals or more.
Not pretty, but being pretty in the group stage never won anyone a World Cup.
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That was cack, but it's job done as far as qualification is concerned. I think the only way England fail to qualify is if they lose to Wales by 4 goals or more.
Not pretty, but being pretty in the group stage never won anyone a World Cup.
No one is asking us to be pretty, but if we play like that against the top teams we will get beaten.
USA should have won that game.
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If the USA had some real threat up front, they'd have been on 6 points now. They're a very young side, and technically excellent, but they've no finishers in the team, and that might cost them from qualifying.
Iran v USA will be a close affair, but I think England will pump Wales.
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Had an opportunity to make other teams take note and, unfortunately typical for GS, he reverted to type - so negative! 2 hours I won’t get back.
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That was cack, but it's job done as far as qualification is concerned. I think the only way England fail to qualify is if they lose to Wales by 4 goals or more.
Not pretty, but being pretty in the group stage never won anyone a World Cup.
No one is asking us to be pretty, but if we play like that against the top teams we will get beaten.
USA should have won that game.
Yes of course.
But how long have you been watching tournaments?
How many times have you seen sides stumble through the groups then go deep into the tournament? Or teams blast through their group, then fall apart.
I'm far from saying England will win the tournament, but the game tonight doesn't really mean anything on that score. Other than that it makes it almost guaranteed that England will be in R2.
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No urgency, no attacking intent, no pace on or off the ball.
0-0 was objective achieved.
They knew a draw would be enough given goal difference so were happy to coast
No consideration given when devising their approach to the millions watching back home.
Thing is a win would have guaranteed top spot and allowed the entire first XI to be rested next game - a far better outcome given the heat/match scheduling.
A win would have been eminently achievable as the US are not that great - as Wales showed against them 2nd half when they started playing.
Unfortunately their first thought is avoiding risk, be negative and defensive.
Pretty pathetic and boring as hell.
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
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Brian Clough once said, “football management is easy, you just pick the best players”. S0-0uthgate does not do this and picks his teams NOT TO LOSE. We have some world class players, just play them. It’s not rocket science. It looks like this team is too good for the manager. We may progress, but that’s it with this guy.
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I can see why GS (if so) went for the safe option, to avoid a lynching if we were bundled out, not much there for any neutrals to get excited about.
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When keifer Moore (born in Torquay), comes out and says he can't wait to beat England, wtf, talk about setting your self up for a fall!!!
Reminds you of local Leeds fans, wanting to beat us a few years ago, but yet they were born in the place!.
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That was cack, but it's job done as far as qualification is concerned. I think the only way England fail to qualify is if they lose to Wales by 4 goals or more.
Not pretty, but being pretty in the group stage never won anyone a World Cup.
Think it’s 7 we need to lose by isn’t it?
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
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Am I right in thinking Iran a team who lost 6-2 can top the group if they beat US of A?
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
Same old same old blame the manager why because it’s the easiest reason without having a knowledge of the game. Having been an operations manager for a once nationalised utility I can tell you Padge it’s the most difficult job I’ve ever had. Southgates’s record speaks for its self as previously quoted. Look out Danny you will be next.
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
It's the same manager whose had ONE stand out result in tournament football against the Germans at last year's Euros and even that was on home soil .
He blew the semi against Croatia and he blew the Euro Final with his timid and cautious tactics .
He was totally out thought last night by his US counterpart and didn't have the tactical nous to change anything .
Previous England managers would have given their right arm to have the attacking talent Southgate has at his disposal probably only matched by Brazil at this tournament .
The man is a complete fraud .
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
It's the same manager whose had ONE stand out result in tournament football against the Germans at last year's Euros and even that was on home soil .
He blew the semi against Croatia and he blew the Euro Final with his timid and cautious tactics .
He was totally out thought last night by his US counterpart and didn't have the tactical nous to change anything .
Previous England managers would have given their right arm to have the attacking talent Southgate has at his disposal probably only matched by Brazil at this tournament .
The man is a complete fraud .
Give over. How many of this England squad are even the best players in their own squad never mind in the PL or CL? Grealish hardly ever starts for City and he is one of our most creative players.
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A good manager would have this squad firing on all cylinders, Southgate has them Firing on three cylinders and a misfire on one of the others
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
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A good manager would have this squad firing on all cylinders, Southgate has them Firing on three cylinders and a misfire on one of the others
We’ve played two matches, everyone seems to have forgotten the first game now.
No team ever goes through a tournament battering sides and being comfortable winners in every game
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
It's the same manager whose had ONE stand out result in tournament football against the Germans at last year's Euros and even that was on home soil .
He blew the semi against Croatia and he blew the Euro Final with his timid and cautious tactics .
He was totally out thought last night by his US counterpart and didn't have the tactical nous to change anything .
Previous England managers would have given their right arm to have the attacking talent Southgate has at his disposal probably only matched by Brazil at this tournament .
The man is a complete fraud .
Give over. How many of this England squad are even the best players in their own squad never mind in the PL or CL? Grealish hardly ever starts for City and he is one of our most creative players.
Previous managers had Rooney, Owen, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard alongside the world class defensive talents of Cole, Ferdinand, Campbell and Terry. There’s a lot of potential in the England ranks but not one of Saka, Foden, Bellingham are at the level of those players, and the central defensive pairing can barely get a game at club level.
It does feel as though this World Cup is probably the end game for Southgate either way but I think people have very short memories about the “achievements” of Eriksson & Capello with the Golden Generation. Southgate’s achievements more than stack up - he got to a World Cup semi with Lingard, Alli & Loftus-Cheek playing!
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
It's the same manager whose had ONE stand out result in tournament football against the Germans at last year's Euros and even that was on home soil .
He blew the semi against Croatia and he blew the Euro Final with his timid and cautious tactics .
He was totally out thought last night by his US counterpart and didn't have the tactical nous to change anything .
Previous England managers would have given their right arm to have the attacking talent Southgate has at his disposal probably only matched by Brazil at this tournament .
The man is a complete fraud .
Give over. How many of this England squad are even the best players in their own squad never mind in the PL or CL? Grealish hardly ever starts for City and he is one of our most creative players.
Two different things club football and international games with squad rotation .
Grealish is good enough for the best manager in the world to sign him and Richarlison doesn't start often for Spurs but scores regularly for Brazil .
Southgate worries way too much about the opposition instead of picking and setting his teams up for the opposition to worry about us .
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
Got to a world cUp semi and a euros final and the only argument people have is about how bad the opposition was.
The opposition were no worse than the sides that have knocked us out before and no different to all the World Cup winners have played to win the trophy
Just because it’s England people woukd rather look for excuses as to why they did well rather than embracing the success
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
It's the same manager whose had ONE stand out result in tournament football against the Germans at last year's Euros and even that was on home soil .
He blew the semi against Croatia and he blew the Euro Final with his timid and cautious tactics .
He was totally out thought last night by his US counterpart and didn't have the tactical nous to change anything .
Previous England managers would have given their right arm to have the attacking talent Southgate has at his disposal probably only matched by Brazil at this tournament .
The man is a complete fraud .
Give over. How many of this England squad are even the best players in their own squad never mind in the PL or CL? Grealish hardly ever starts for City and he is one of our most creative players.
You've picked out one player there who plays for probably the best team in the world at the minute.
Going from the back players who are the best for their club or one of the best.
Pickford
Trippier
Shaw
Rice
Bellingham
Saka
Kane
7 of the starting 11.
This whole he got us to a final rubbish. So he should with these players v other nations.
We beat Tunisia Panama Columbia and Sweden at the world cup. Then lost twice to Belgium and Croatia in the semis.
Look forward to seeing him in charge of a massive premiership club when he leaves England you guys.
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
Got to a world cUp semi and a euros final and the only argument people have is about how bad the opposition was.
The opposition were no worse than the sides that have knocked us out before and no different to all the World Cup winners have played to win the trophy
Just because it’s England people woukd rather look for excuses as to why they did well rather than embracing the success
You're letting it think that Southgate is a good manager. Literally doesn't have a clue how to change things mid game when we're off it.
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
Got to a world cUp semi and a euros final and the only argument people have is about how bad the opposition was.
The opposition were no worse than the sides that have knocked us out before and no different to all the World Cup winners have played to win the trophy
Just because it’s England people woukd rather look for excuses as to why they did well rather than embracing the success
You're letting it think that Southgate is a good manager. Literally doesn't have a clue how to change things mid game when we're off it.
I’m not saying he’s a good manager nor a bad one, I’m just emphasising the point that his record in major tournaments is unbelievable when you compared with all the other managers we’ve had who had better squads
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
Got to a world cUp semi and a euros final and the only argument people have is about how bad the opposition was.
The opposition were no worse than the sides that have knocked us out before and no different to all the World Cup winners have played to win the trophy
Just because it’s England people woukd rather look for excuses as to why they did well rather than embracing the success
You're letting it think that Southgate is a good manager. Literally doesn't have a clue how to change things mid game when we're off it.
I’m not saying he’s a good manager nor a bad one, I’m just emphasising the point that his record in major tournaments is unbelievable when you compared with all the other managers we’ve had who had better squads
Yeh it's is unbelievable , he's still won nowt despite leading in both games that would have made a World Cup final and lifted the Euros .
It's unbelievable you consider that success .
The Germans , Italians and the French wouldn't .
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Why Foden didn’t come on for Mount is a total mystery.
Has he upset Southgate. We have a prodigious talent who hasn’t kicked a ball yet.
If he was BrazilIan, French or Spanish he would be starting games never mind coming on as sub.
Southgate is only interested in not conceding. He was not happy winning 6-2 on Monday.
Too negative. Our strength is our attacking players so we should play to our strengths.
What are we going to do against the top teams? Bit concerned now. On Monday I thought we might have a team that’s going to go all the way..
Southgate you have the players that could win the World Cup. Don’t blow this opportunity and go out by being too cautious.
He who dares WINS.
Agree with all that. The approach just sews negative seeds which will now carry over to the Welsh game.
Before you know it, we're coming out of the group on the back foot and whoever we play next, the fear of losing will override our will to go out and win the game unless Gareth proves us wrong and let's the lions loose.
None of them got their kit dirty last night and USA didn't have to break sweat to nullify us.
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
Got to a world cUp semi and a euros final and the only argument people have is about how bad the opposition was.
The opposition were no worse than the sides that have knocked us out before and no different to all the World Cup winners have played to win the trophy
Just because it’s England people woukd rather look for excuses as to why they did well rather than embracing the success
You're letting it think that Southgate is a good manager. Literally doesn't have a clue how to change things mid game when we're off it.
I’m not saying he’s a good manager nor a bad one, I’m just emphasising the point that his record in major tournaments is unbelievable when you compared with all the other managers we’ve had who had better squads
Yeh it's is unbelievable , he's still won nowt despite leading in both games that would have made a World Cup final and lifted the Euros .
It's unbelievable you consider that success .
The Germans , Italians and the French wouldn't .
Of course it’s success,
To give no recognition to actually getting there is ridiculous, look how many other managers have tried with better squads and failed to get us anywhere near a semi.
Southgate has done it two tournaments in succession but the clamour by all the negative brigade to look for excuses as to why he did well is embarrassing
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This "we should win it with this squad" attitude that comes every 4 years :suicide: :lol:
Pretty sure that each of say the top 10 ranked nations and each manager goes through this each world cup "we should have won it with that team"
Not saying we're going to win it this year, but then i'm also not saying we've got the best squad and therefore "should" win it, we'll get far and then it's all about luck....keep the faith :scarf:
And Italy have made a footballing career , for want of a better phrase, out of negative and slow football and their trophy cabinet is full.
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Why Foden didn’t come on for Mount is a total mystery.
Has he upset Southgate. We have a prodigious talent who hasn’t kicked a ball yet.
If he was BrazilIan, French or Spanish he would be starting games never mind coming on as sub.
Southgate is only interested in not conceding. He was not happy winning 6-2 on Monday.
Too negative. Our strength is our attacking players so we should play to our strengths.
What are we going to do against the top teams? Bit concerned now. On Monday I thought we might have a team that’s going to go all the way..
Southgate you have the players that could win the World Cup. Don’t blow this opportunity and go out by being too cautious.
He who dares WINS.
Agree with all that. The approach just sews negative seeds which will now carry over to the Welsh game.
Before you know it, we're coming out of the group on the back foot and whoever we play next, the fear of losing will override our will to go out and win the game unless Gareth proves us wrong and let's the lions loose.
None of them got their kit dirty last night and USA didn't have to break sweat to nullify us.
We scored 6 goals only a few days ago,
Also we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the euros and then got to the final,drew with Ireland in italia 90 and reached the semi.
Groups are just about qualifying, that’s literally all that matters
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I think Southgate shackles this team.
That being said, Wales will have to come out and attack us on Tuesday so we should be able to pick them off.
Roll on 3-0 Wales.
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Yes, I understand the pragmatic approach and yes, Southgate has got us to where we want to be however, I just think being overcautios ultimately catches up with us.
Instead of winning the group with our chests puffed out, we've let Wales make a game of it. Our players are drawn into a scrap but they have half an eye on the next round not wanting to get injured or suspended etc.
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This "we should win it with this squad" attitude that comes every 4 years :suicide: :lol:
Pretty sure that each of say the top 10 ranked nations and each manager goes through this each world cup "we should have won it with that team"
Not saying we're going to win it this year, but then i'm also not saying we've got the best squad and therefore "should" win it, we'll get far and then it's all about luck....keep the faith :scarf:
And Italy have made a footballing career , for want of a better phrase, out of negative and slow football and their trophy cabinet is full.
We went a decade not thinking that. This squad is one of the best in the world. Just not got the manager to go with it.
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One of the best squads in the world and he’s reached a World Cup semi and a euro final.
Sven, capello had better squads and got nowhere near that
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
Knew this would be posted. The biennial "We're England so obviously we are better than anyone else if only we had the right manager" trope.
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The US put a press on us and Southgate couldn't even solve that .
You'd imagine at half time he'd have changed things and he didn't even manage that , in fact the US had their best spell in the entire game for the first twenty minutes of the second half .
Southgate just continued to scratch his chin , totally clueless on how to beat a press .
Stones to Maguire , Maguire to Stones , Stones to Pickford and back to Maguire .
Absolute clueless imbecile whose only strength is cultural within the national team .
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
Knew this would be posted. The biennial "We're England so obviously we are better than anyone else if only we had the right manager" trope.
Question did you expect us to lose against Panama, Tunisia, Columbia and Sweden?
Also very odd reply btw. This England squad is probably the best there is. Not we are England so we're better than the world.
We've had about 10-12 years since probably 2008 since anyone thought we ought to be close or winning tournaments as well so you can shut up regarding that
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the team he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
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Southgate didn’t celebrate the 6 goals we scored against Iran, his focus was on the 2 goals we conceded. It’s what he does, it’s the mentality of a defender, it’s what he is and colours his thinking at all times.
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
The squad in Russia wasn’t very good,
It had Ali, lingard, Ashley young Delphi, Phil jones, Cahill, welbeck etc etc etc
Getting to a World Cup semi with that squad wad a miracle and certainly wasn’t better than the Croatia squad
Absolute miracle beating Columbia on penalties and Sweden.
Got to a world cUp semi and a euros final and the only argument people have is about how bad the opposition was.
The opposition were no worse than the sides that have knocked us out before and no different to all the World Cup winners have played to win the trophy
Just because it’s England people woukd rather look for excuses as to why they did well rather than embracing the success
You're letting it think that Southgate is a good manager. Literally doesn't have a clue how to change things mid game when we're off it.
I’m not saying he’s a good manager nor a bad one, I’m just emphasising the point that his record in major tournaments is unbelievable when you compared with all the other managers we’ve had who had better squads
Yeh it's is unbelievable , he's still won nowt despite leading in both games that would have made a World Cup final and lifted the Euros .
It's unbelievable you consider that success .
The Germans , Italians and the French wouldn't .
Yes Tyke but the Germans, Italians and French haven’t won much outside of the game.
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Southgate didn’t celebrate the 6 goals we scored against Iran, his focus was on the 2 goals we conceded. It’s what he does, it’s the mentality of a defender, it’s what he is and colours his thinking at all times.
Southgate is a naturally cautious manager but I think that’s his mentality, not necessarily the “mentality of a defender”. Klopp, Pochettino & Bielsa were all defenders, Guardiola a very defensive midfielder, and are all managers who play with an attacking philosophy.
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Anybody hear the GS interview after the game last night? He really doesn't rate Phil Foden.
Rashford
Sterling
Grealish
Kane
Saka
Mount
All in front of Foden. The man is a fool. Does he really think he knows better than Guardiola who picks Foden in front of Grealish every game. And that's not knocking JG as i think he is a terrific player.
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Thinks he's never played centrally for City apparently. Nice feller terrible manager. He'll be happier tonight because we kept a clean sheet.
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That was cack, but it's job done as far as qualification is concerned. I think the only way England fail to qualify is if they lose to Wales by 4 goals or more.
Not pretty, but being pretty in the group stage never won anyone a World Cup.
No one is asking us to be pretty, but if we play like that against the top teams we will get beaten.
USA should have won that game.
Yes of course.
But how long have you been watching tournaments?
How many times have you seen sides stumble through the groups then go deep into the tournament? Or teams blast through their group, then fall apart.
I'm far from saying England will win the tournament, but the game tonight doesn't really mean anything on that score. Other than that it makes it almost guaranteed that England will be in R2.
No not arguing with that BST.
It was just such a let down after the Iran match.
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Southgate didn’t celebrate the 6 goals we scored against Iran, his focus was on the 2 goals we conceded. It’s what he does, it’s the mentality of a defender, it’s what he is and colours his thinking at all times.
Southgate is a naturally cautious manager but I think that’s his mentality, not necessarily the “mentality of a defender”. Klopp, Pochettino & Bielsa were all defenders, Guardiola a very defensive midfielder, and are all managers who play with an attacking philosophy.
I was referring to GS and only him, I didn't mean all defenders had that approach. I could have worded it better I suppose.
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Anybody hear the GS interview after the game last night? He really doesn't rate Phil Foden.
Rashford
Sterling
Grealish
Kane
Saka
Mount
All in front of Foden. The man is a fool. Does he really think he knows better than Guardiola who picks Foden in front of Grealish every game. And that's not knocking JG as i think he is a terrific player.
I think the reason he goes for Grealish, he knows he will get free kicks and will stop the flow of the game, which when we're going defensive, helps us get some respite and stops the oppositions momentum.
Defend a lead, yes get Grealish on. To go and win a game, Rasford and/or Foden would be my subs.
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Southgate wouldn't get a job in the premier League. Fraud of a manager. Speaks well though about none football matters so to ticks that box
That'll be the manager that's got England to a final and a semi in the past 4 years. When the previous record was 2 semis in 52 years?
Is that the box ticking manager we are talking about?
Knew this would be posted. This England squad is the best in the world IMO. Especially up top. It's being completely wasted. A decent manager beats Italy and Croatia.
Knew this would be posted. The biennial "We're England so obviously we are better than anyone else if only we had the right manager" trope.
Question did you expect us to lose against Panama, Tunisia, Columbia and Sweden?
Also very odd reply btw. This England squad is probably the best there is. Not we are England so we're better than the world.
We've had about 10-12 years since probably 2008 since anyone thought we ought to be close or winning tournaments as well so you can shut up regarding that
The point is that in EVERY tournament, in EVERY generation, there's an over-hyping of how good the England squad truly is. I've seen it go on for decades. You've just come up with a classic of the genre with your insistance that we have the best squad in the world "especially up top". When France can lose the services of Benzema and still have Mbappe, Griezmann, Dembele, Coman and their all-time leading scorer to choose from.
I've given my take for years. The English system produces very talented players who can be coached into roles that work very well at club level. But at club level, the coaching is precisely aimed at instilling a system. Through constant repetition and refinement.
International football and especially tournament football doesn't allow the luxury of well-drilled systems. Managers don't get that time and contact with players. You rely much more on players' innate football intelligence and ability to work out solutions on the hoof. And that's where we pretty much always fall down. When set an unfamiliar challenge, our players are not clever and flexible enough to adapt. And we blame the manager...
None of which is to say that this squad isn't a very good one. It is. But it never gives the feel of being able to quite cope against the very best opposition. And that isn't the fault of the manager. It's the fault of the system that produces players who are not quite as good as many England fans believe them to be.
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Unless we put that collective belief and confidence in the players, we may never know how good they could actually be.
France just now didn't settle for a point, they carried on wanting to win the game, and they did.
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Southgate has done an incredible job of bringing the team together. We should have won something under Erikson and Cappello because we had a few world class players. Unfortunately, Ferguson and Wenger et al controlled the players back then.
Southgate has brought the England ‘team’ together.
Now, though, I think GS is lacking in game management. We really could win this thing and if we don’t, it’s probably time for him to give some one else the opportunity
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The USA game was one that you should be going all out to win. It was there for the taking, but we allowed them to gain confidence, as the game went on. A poor performance but we didn’t lose. I would like to see more ambitious substitutions.
Rashford he didn’t give enough minutes to, to get at that defence. Grealish coming on before Foden was bad, but Mount starting before him dumbfounds me. I know Mount and Grealish are wingers, but I think Foden in there with Bellingham and Saka would have overwhelmed the USA midfield.
Grealish while a good player, he flatters to deceive. Foden produces goals and makes things happen, as do Saka and Bellingham. Pick players that have an end product.
I’ve seen it time and again in World Cup tournaments, where we can win the group, make a mistake, end up runners up and make it harder for ourselves.
Southgate has done a good job, but could have done better if he had been braver in his decision making. He is still trying to protect the defence and its lack of pace. He has some of the better attacking players in the tournament but concentrated on the sides weakness instead of playing to our strengths.
For me Foden and Rashford should start the Wales game. We need players that take a man on. Mount does that for club but is restricted for country.
To win a World Cup you have to take chances. He’s forever trying not to lose a World Cup-safety first.
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
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We'd have scored a dozen against Iran if we weren't so defensive! :silly:
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .
My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .
Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .
Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .
There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .
Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .
In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .
On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .
Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .
We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .
Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .
Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .
Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .
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I'd also like to add that Southgate has had an easier ride than many of England managers of the past .
He's never had an hostile media against him , nothing like Robson , Venables , Taylor , Hoddle and Erickson had .
Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .
Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
For balance he's managed the relationships between the England set up and the PL clubs very well and he's made the England shirt way more valuable to wear than it possibly once was under such as Erickson perhaps .
He's done some good things but for me tactically he's just not up to it and that's where it counts the most .
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Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .
Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.
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Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .
Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.
They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .
I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .
Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .
Plus the fact the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .
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Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .
Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.
And the minnows are gradually turning into sticklebacks.
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Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .
Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.
They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .
I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .
Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .
Plus the fact the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .
There were 13 places for European sides in this WC. There haven't been fewer since 1978, when there were 10.
But now there are 55 nations in UEFA. In 1978 there were 33.
It's actually much harder for any European side to qualify for the finals now than it has been at any point since at least when Jim Callaghan was PM and Don Revie was England manager. Arguably since before then. Strange theme to use to contextualise Southgate's record.
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Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .
Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.
They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .
I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .
Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .
Plus the fact the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .
There were 13 places for European sides in this WC. There haven't been fewer since 1978, when there were 10.
But now there are 55 nations in UEFA. In 1978 there were 33.
It's actually much harder for any European side to qualify for the finals now than it has been at any point since at least when Jim Callaghan was PM and Don Revie was England manager. Arguably since before then. Strange theme to use to contextualise Southgate's record.
So presumably it was easier to finish above Italy and a Polish team who finished up getting third place in 1974 with one place available than it is now with half a dozen in the qualifying group most of whom are small nations and the insurance policy of a seeded play off system .
Interesting theory Billy , I wasn't having a go at Southgate per se , qualifying was easier for a number of previous England managers .
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Tyke.
You said "qualifying for tournaments has never been easier."
That's just wrong. It's now harder for any European country to qualify than it had been for at least 44 years.
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Southgate is amiable, a very amiable guy that wants to say and do the right things. He hasn’t got that devilment in him that separates the winners from the also rans. He didn’t really know as a player what it was like to have consistent success, and what it takes to maintain it.
Being a winner is alien to him. He has done a good job without having the ability, to go that step further. He has done so well because of the standard of players he has, not because he has tactically won games for us.
He has done competent things without having the nous, the intelligence to put outthink his opposite number. You can’t say he’s done a crap job, the players have made him seem better than he is that’s all.
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .
My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .
Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .
Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .
There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .
Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .
In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .
On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .
Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .
We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .
Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .
Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .
Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .
The groups stage at major tournaments always throws up performances which are poor.
Especially in the 2nd game as you have sides that need to win playing against sides that don’t need to win but don’t want to lose.
Saying did you expect to lose to Panama, Columbia etc is nonsense..
Did you expect us to lose to Iceland, did you expect us to not qualify out of a group with Costa Rica and Uruguay in it,
The fact is the last two tournaments he’s exceeded everyone’s expectations yet he’s still constantly criticised for it.
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Always, always the manager to blame. Been the same at pretty much every single tournament, my entire life.
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .
My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .
Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .
Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .
There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .
Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .
In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .
On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .
Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .
We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .
Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .
Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .
Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .
Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.
Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.
Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.
For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .
My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .
Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .
Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .
There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .
Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .
In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .
On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .
Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .
We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .
Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .
Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .
Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .
Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.
Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.
Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.
For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.
Venables didn't make any changes in the semi final against Germany at Euro 96 because he hadn't lost control of the game .
Neither had Robson at Italia 90 , in fact in both games we finished the stronger team .
The point your missing is that Southgate despite having massively more options available to him today than his predecessors and the fact he's twice lost control of games when in a winning position at the very highest level and couldn't fix it .
He couldn't fix it on Friday night either against bang average players with a good tactical plan .
This isn't a witch hunt on my part by any means because he's done some very good things with the England set up which I've alluded to .
However tactically he's found wanting and he's way too cautious with his selections in my opinion .
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I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .
As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .
My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .
Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .
Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .
There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .
Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .
In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .
On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .
Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .
We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .
Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .
Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .
Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .
Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.
Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.
Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.
For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.
Venables didn't make any changes in the semi final against Germany at Euro 96 because he hadn't lost control of the game .
Neither had Robson at Italia 90 , in fact in both games we finished the stronger team .
The point your missing is that Southgate despite having massively more options available to him today than his predecessors and the fact he's twice lost control of games when in a winning position at the very highest level and couldn't fix it .
He couldn't fix it on Friday night either against bang average players with a good tactical plan .
This isn't a witch hunt on my part by any means because he's done some very good things with the England set up which I've alluded to .
However tactically he's found wanting and he's way too cautious with his selections in my opinion .
I haven't missed that point, I've acknowledged that he needs to make better in game changes but there's still arguments around Venables making changes in the 96 game, not least to have more penalty taking options on the pitch. Managers make changes weekly even though they're in the ascendency in games.
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Southgate reminds me of Gary McSheffrey. A nice bloke, but scared to death to pick a team to win, rather than avoid losing, football matches. If England don’t make the semis at the very least I suspect he will be gone after this tournament.
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Alf Ramsey got England to a World Cup final, which they won
Gareth Southgate got England to a Euros final which they lost
All other England managers have never reached a final to either of the two major tournaments
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Chris I think you’re maybe right. Any team in that competition would bite your hand off for Foden. This reminds me of Glen Hoddle.
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Southgate reminds me of Gary McSheffrey. A nice bloke, but scared to death to pick a team to win, rather than avoid losing, football matches. If England don’t make the semis at the very least I suspect he will be gone after this tournament.
If England come runner up in the group, the road to the final probably means they face:
2nd Round: Netherlands
QF: Argentina/Poland/Denmark
SF: Spain/Brazil
If England win the group, the path probably is:
2nd Round: Ecuador
QF: France
SF: Morocco/Croatia/Belgium/Portugal
Either way, to get to the later stages, there's some tough opponents, regardless of early form. There's nothing like the easy path England have had in the previous two tournaments.
Being realistic, I don't think either route has England odds-on to make the semi-finals. Is say if England DID make the semis, it would be a very good outcome.
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I think our players are better than Southgate, especially our attacking players. Brighton and Southampton have recently lost their managers. Both established premier league clubs who’d be happy to finish in the top half and no more. If they’d appointed Southgate I think their fans would’ve been very disappointed.
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I’m hoping to see a few changes to the starting line up against Wales. There were quite a few players blowing out their arses against USA , including Kane, that need to be rested.
There’s no point taking a squad of 25 players if you’ve got no intention of using them.
Like most others i’m totally baffled why Southgates refusing to play Foden unless somethings happened in the camp. Hasn’t Foden got previous for misbehaving in the England squad?
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He breached Covid rules with Greenwood, that's all I can remember Foden having done whilst with England.
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Didn’t they both invite girls back to their room as well?
Foden apologised and knuckled down, whereas Greenwood seems to have gone overboard.
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Well, that's a new type of handball been given against Uruguay. Totally accidental hitting his hand as he went down but I guess the ref had to consider whether Fernández would have been through on goal.
Tough call but what do you think? Is it really any different to a player being struck on the arm from very close range?
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I said immediately after the watching the replay “no penalty” as no doubt did everyone who’s kicked a ball. The standard of referring at this competition is abysmal.
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You know when the ref goes to watch the VAR he’s going to change his mind. Poor decision, when falling backwards surely you put down an arm naturally to break your fall.
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Dull first half. Of GS's changes Henderson has done well, decent tempo about him despite not being our best on the ball. Lots of joy down the left but no final ball. Rashford is infuriating at times, comes off the bench to influence a game but a bit ht and miss in this one - Grealish could get some joy down there.
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Never doubted Rashford
:blush:
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And in no way is this a dull game.
Also, whilst I'm on the subject, Rovers will never win the Champions League.
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Rashford has been poor on the ball tonight so has Henderson.
Foden needs to play every game and played central.
Press has been good.
Wales dreadful
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Never doubted Rashford
:blush:
:chair:
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And in no way is this a dull game.
Also, whilst I'm on the subject, Rovers will never win the Champions League.
Call yourself a supporter
:lol:
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Southgate reminds me of Gary McSheffrey. A nice bloke, but scared to death to pick a team to win, rather than avoid losing, football matches. If England don’t make the semis at the very least I suspect he will be gone after this tournament.
Omg
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Come on now this is the same manager who got us to the Euro final and WC Semi. No team plays every game perfectly.....rather slowly build up than go all out in the group....it's still a possibility let's be positive :scarf: :boxing:
It's the same manager whose had ONE stand out result in tournament football against the Germans at last year's Euros and even that was on home soil .
He blew the semi against Croatia and he blew the Euro Final with his timid and cautious tactics .
He was totally out thought last night by his US counterpart and didn't have the tactical nous to change anything .
Previous England managers would have given their right arm to have the attacking talent Southgate has at his disposal probably only matched by Brazil at this tournament .
The man is a complete fraud .
I’ve always respected your comments Tyke however I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re the fraud not Gareth.
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Bellingham is sublime. Same team & set up from the 2nd half for Sunday please.
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Rashford has been poor on the ball tonight so has Henderson.
Foden needs to play every game and played central.
Press has been good.
Wales dreadful
Foden does not play centrally for his club and hasn’t done for a few seasons now.
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This should be Southgate’s finale.
He has done an incredible job in galvanising the squad. The players want to be together - of that there is no doubt.
Now, though, we need to kick on to become absolute world beaters. I really want Gareth to be the one who takes us there. Let’s see…
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I think the personality, winning mentality and winning experience of Henderson could be important personally.
Bellingham looks far more threatening than Mount as the attacking midfielder. Southgate cannot just chuck Foden there when that isn’t his position.
Rashford looks in better form than Sterling as the pacey pick.
For the more technical / creative wide player, it’s take your pick from whoever is in the hottest form of Foden, Saka or Grealish. If one isn’t performing it’s great to have the sub option (especially with potentially 120+ min games).
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Agree about Henderson and I hope he improves with each game.
Bellingham has been very disciplined in the last two games and only reallu opens up once we get ahead although that could be said for others too. Sometimes we seem overcautious but, we won the group so maybe wrong to be too critical.
Henderson, Bellingham and Rashford are key players to how far we go in this tournament.
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Rashford has been poor on the ball tonight so has Henderson.
Foden needs to play every game and played central.
Press has been good.
Wales dreadful
Foden does not play centrally for his club and hasn’t done for a few seasons now.
You must have missed all last season when they played without a striker then.
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Rashford has been poor on the ball tonight so has Henderson.
Foden needs to play every game and played central.
Press has been good.
Wales dreadful
Foden does not play centrally for his club and hasn’t done for a few seasons now.
You must have missed all last season when they played without a striker then.
Oh so you’d drop Kane?
I meant in midfield where everyone is clamouring for him to play.
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Probably not an easy or straightforward answer yet but when all the stats collated, will Wales be the worst team in the tournament? Guess they are the smallest so maybe not on stats vs size, but they’ve been very disappointing compared to their Euro tournament performances.
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Probably not an easy or straightforward answer yet but when all the stats collated, will Wales be the worst team in the tournament? Guess they are the smallest so maybe not on stats vs size, but they’ve been very disappointing compared to their Euro tournament performances.
Qatar must have a smaller population, and certainly far less of a population of professional players to choose from. Uruguay, Costa Rica, Croatia probably similar populations as well. Wales have been incredibly underwhelming.
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Probably not an easy or straightforward answer yet but when all the stats collated, will Wales be the worst team in the tournament? Guess they are the smallest so maybe not on stats vs size, but they’ve been very disappointing compared to their Euro tournament performances.
Probably the weakest European qualifier. They've been very underwhelming and poorly set up.
On paper they should have been performing/competing better against USA and Iran.
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On the subject of Gareth Southgate.
Not a comment on his football management skills but perhaps an indicator of 'brains in his boot'.
A direct quote from his managerial notes in the Middlesbrough v Rovers program 22nd August 2009 I have in front of me.
"We also have a strong bench containing players who can consider themselves unfortunate not to be in the starting line-up. They will have a big role to play as the season goes on, however. After all we are only three games into a minimum 48-match season."
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On the subject of Gareth Southgate.
Not a comment on his football management skills but perhaps an indicator of 'brains in his boot'.
A direct quote from his managerial notes in the Middlesbrough v Rovers program 22nd August 2009 I have in front of me.
"We also have a strong bench containing players who can consider themselves unfortunate not to be in the starting line-up. They will have a big role to play as the season goes on, however. After all we are only three games into a minimum 48-match season."
Nothing wrong with his maths. 46 league games, plus at least one League Cup game and at least one FA Cup game. So, correctly, a minimum of 48 games in the season.
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Lukaku has missed three of the most unbelievable chances after coming on for the second half. Ridiculous misses.
Belgium out!
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Martinez gone.
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Germany bottom of their group as things stand.
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We’ll done, Japan.
Sourness losing his sh1t on ITV.
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They’re going home
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I hope the ball was out of play for the Japan goal. Karma for 2010 for the outrageous Lampard goal decision.
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On the subject of Gareth Southgate.
Not a comment on his football management skills but perhaps an indicator of 'brains in his boot'.
A direct quote from his managerial notes in the Middlesbrough v Rovers program 22nd August 2009 I have in front of me.
"We also have a strong bench containing players who can consider themselves unfortunate not to be in the starting line-up. They will have a big role to play as the season goes on, however. After all we are only three games into a minimum 48-match season."
Nothing wrong with his maths. 46 league games, plus at least one League Cup game and at least one FA Cup game. So, correctly, a minimum of 48 games in the season.
That's what I immediately thought. I wonder where that makes Branton think his brains are.
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Well said Tyke. Never thought I would be agreeing with your Barnsley type philosophy on here but what you say about Southgate is absolutely bang on the button. He has been unbelievably lucky at how the tournaments and the draws have unwound and in the class and quality of players he has inherited. He is vastly overrated but fits snugly into the FA mindset. His safety first mentality and poor grasp of tactics have won us nothing and that isn't going to change. The sooner him and his boring personality are gone the better off we will be.
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Aye, much better to go back to having someone more exciting that gets us out of tournaments quicker, like the past fifty years.
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Yes Glyn - winning nothing thats what we're used to and thats what we get with Southgate. His record speaks for itself. Glad you agree.
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This World Cup is there for the taking. We have the players to do it and lots of strong nations are not what they once were.
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Yes Glyn - winning nothing thats what we're used to and thats what we get with Southgate. His record speaks for itself. Glad you agree.
His record that speaks for itself is that he's got us closer to winning something than any other manager since Ramsey. And not just once - how many other England managers have managed us in more than one tournament yet have had their worst tournament finish being semi-finalists? Glad you agree.
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Well said Tyke. Never thought I would be agreeing with your Barnsley type philosophy on here but what you say about Southgate is absolutely bang on the button. He has been unbelievably lucky at how the tournaments and the draws have unwound and in the class and quality of players he has inherited. He is vastly overrated but fits snugly into the FA mindset. His safety first mentality and poor grasp of tactics have won us nothing and that isn't going to change. The sooner him and his boring personality are gone the better off we will be.
Bored of this "lucky" line. If supposed better nations left before us to supposed lesser nations then thats another notch to Southgates bow and perhaps people need to re-assess how tournament football works. International football is falling behind club football and as such becoming less predictable. Germany are home. Spain didn't win their group. Belgiums golden generation are home. Italy didn't qualify. Asia have more teams in the last 16 than South America.
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Well said Tyke. Never thought I would be agreeing with your Barnsley type philosophy on here but what you say about Southgate is absolutely bang on the button. He has been unbelievably lucky at how the tournaments and the draws have unwound and in the class and quality of players he has inherited. He is vastly overrated but fits snugly into the FA mindset. His safety first mentality and poor grasp of tactics have won us nothing and that isn't going to change. The sooner him and his boring personality are gone the better off we will be.
Van Gaal perfectly illustrating the difference between a canny tactical brain and hmm Gareth this afternoon .
The US were totally baffled because the Netherlands let them have the ball and played on the counter .
I'm not suggesting the Netherlands will win the world cup but simply demonstrating the difference between someone who knows his onions tactically and one who has his best strengths off the field .
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Well said Tyke. Never thought I would be agreeing with your Barnsley type philosophy on here but what you say about Southgate is absolutely bang on the button. He has been unbelievably lucky at how the tournaments and the draws have unwound and in the class and quality of players he has inherited. He is vastly overrated but fits snugly into the FA mindset. His safety first mentality and poor grasp of tactics have won us nothing and that isn't going to change. The sooner him and his boring personality are gone the better off we will be.
Van Gaal perfectly illustrating the difference between a canny tactical brain and hmm Gareth this afternoon .
The US were totally baffled because the Netherlands let them have the ball and played on the counter .
I'm not suggesting the Netherlands will win the world cup but simply demonstrating the difference between someone who knows his onions tactically and one who has his best strengths off the field .
Totally agree with that, Tyke. Many pundits have described the USA midfield as the most technically gifted midfield so far in the competition, and I've really enjoyed watching them; but Van Gaal had a plan to nullify that threat, and executed it perfectly.
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Well said Tyke. Never thought I would be agreeing with your Barnsley type philosophy on here but what you say about Southgate is absolutely bang on the button. He has been unbelievably lucky at how the tournaments and the draws have unwound and in the class and quality of players he has inherited. He is vastly overrated but fits snugly into the FA mindset. His safety first mentality and poor grasp of tactics have won us nothing and that isn't going to change. The sooner him and his boring personality are gone the better off we will be.
Van Gaal perfectly illustrating the difference between a canny tactical brain and hmm Gareth this afternoon .
The US were totally baffled because the Netherlands let them have the ball and played on the counter .
I'm not suggesting the Netherlands will win the world cup but simply demonstrating the difference between someone who knows his onions tactically and one who has his best strengths off the field .
Totally agree with that, Tyke. Many pundits have described the USA midfield as the most technically gifted midfield so far in the competition, and I've really enjoyed watching them; but Van Gaal had a plan to nullify that threat, and executed it perfectly.
Steve i honestly hope Southgate shoves my criticism of him firmly down my throat and England at least make a World Cup final .
Not going to be easy today by any means , a bit of a mystery game today is this one as we don't play African teams too much .
At least with the French in a potential quarter final clash we know what we are up against .
We've seen some major shocks already at this tournament but the difference today is that there's no second chances anymore .
Fingers crossed job for me tonight .
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Early rumours suggest he's leaving Rashford out for Saka.
Hope not. There's no way France would have left Mbappe out. Get the game won with your best in form players.
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The BBC news sight says that’s happening
What a joke. I thought he said he’d play people on form.obviously not
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Saka didn't do much to get rotated in the first place, I've no issue whichever one starts. Rashford could make a great impact sub, his two strikes apart I didn't think he was great against Wales.
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Same was poor on the ball. Keeper had a mare for both his goals.
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Saka was terrific in the first two games.
We have loads of really good players so whoever starts will draw criticism from some fans who think they would pick different players.
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Some seem to be forgetting that Saka scored twice and was man of the match in the opening game. Not great against the US but then who was? Rashford’s pace off the bench will be a great asset to run at tiring Senegal defenders if we need it.
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No need to worry ......... Gareth has a plan!!!
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Senegal have got it sussed just park 11 men in your own half and let the other side make a mistake passing the ball across the pitch.
They are not even challenging just watching the from me to you in front of them and waiting for a b*ll*ck being dropped.
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2 great goals.
Bellingham looks the real deal tonight.
3rd goal kills it. Come on England.
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2 great goals.
Bellingham looks the real deal tonight.
3rd goal kills it. Come on England.
Bellingham is the real deal fantastic player
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Great finish by Kane too.
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Great third goal. Saka……….
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3 fantastically worked goals
Looking good.
Can we produce against France?
Should be some game. Who takes their chances will prevail as I think both teams will have a few.
The winner v Brazil in the final.
We could do it not saying we will but we could win this World Cup
Ever the optimist.
:thumbsup: :that:
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Maybe we only win the World Cup in a year when the last two numbers are the same. 1966 followed by 2022.
There isn’t another one until 2066.
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Will play 3 at the back next week. Walker making up the third to pocket mbappe.
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Maybe we only win the World Cup in a year when the last two numbers are the same. 1966 followed by 2022.
There isn’t another one until 2066.
Better make it this year then hound. I will be 111 in 2066 ;)
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Maybe we only win the World Cup in a year when the last two numbers are the same. 1966 followed by 2022.
There isn’t another one until 2066.
Better make it this year then hound. I will be 111 in 2066 ;)
And I will be 114.
If we keep in touch maybe we could watch it together.
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Maybe we only win the World Cup in a year when the last two numbers are the same. 1966 followed by 2022.
There isn’t another one until 2066.
Better make it this year then hound. I will be 111 in 2066 ;)
And I will be 114.
If we keep in touch maybe we could watch it together.
Sounds like a plan hound.
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A bit iffy for 35 minutes until we worked out that it isn't a crime to knock it long and relieve some pressure .
Three superbly constructed and well taken goals with the second bang on half time knocking the stuffing completely out of Senegal .
I'd be lying if I said our defence wasn't a concern as we get to the quality end of the tournament .
You'd imagine the French would take at least one the opportunities Senegal had in that first half , maybe both .
That said the French are beatable in my opinion and aren't quite as good as they were four years ago which isn't to say they aren't a good team , four years ago Mbappe was a bit of icing on the cake but now they rely on him big time .
Keep him quiet and we can progress .
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A bit iffy for 35 minutes until we worked out that it isn't a crime to knock it long and relieve some pressure .
Three superbly constructed and well taken goals with the second bang on half time knocking the stuffing completely out of Senegal .
I'd be lying if I said our defence wasn't a concern as we get to the quality end of the tournament .
You'd imagine the French would take at least one the opportunities Senegal had in that first half , maybe both .
That said the French are beatable in my opinion and aren't quite as good as they were four years ago which isn't to say they aren't a good team , four years ago Mbappe was a bit of icing on the cake but now they rely on him big time .
Keep him quiet and we can progress .
Agreed, the use of Walker will be pivotal against him. Shame this game comes as early as the quarters.
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A bit iffy for 35 minutes until we worked out that it isn't a crime to knock it long and relieve some pressure .
Three superbly constructed and well taken goals with the second bang on half time knocking the stuffing completely out of Senegal .
I'd be lying if I said our defence wasn't a concern as we get to the quality end of the tournament .
You'd imagine the French would take at least one the opportunities Senegal had in that first half , maybe both .
That said the French are beatable in my opinion and aren't quite as good as they were four years ago which isn't to say they aren't a good team , four years ago Mbappe was a bit of icing on the cake but now they rely on him big time .
Keep him quiet and we can progress .
Would be dangerous to think of France as a one man team, but yes keep Mbappe quiet and we will have a great chance.
Easier said than done of course.
Will Southgate change to a back 5 against France. He might. Personally I would stick not twist. We need to be positive and attack them. If we allow them to dictate then we are in trouble.
Best form of defence imo is to out score them. I can’t see any other way of winning the game.
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We can only win the game if we outscore them Tyke.
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Was impressed with Rice tonight, along with Henderson and Bellingham, they kept a really good shape which I think that allows Bellingham to break the lines.
I thought, the switch to go long a couple of times was really good to see we are prepared to mix it up.
I suspect Mbappe will want to come inside to get at Stones and McGuire so I don't think it'll be as simple as the match up with Walker.
Again, I think Rice, Henderson and Bellingham will have to work hard to stop Griezman pulling France's strings. Be patient and we can spring their defence too.
Anything can happen and probably will.
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We should consider the strength we have not worry so much about others. England, France, Brazil have probably been the best three so far in the tournament and I suspect Saturdays game will be cagey, close and potentially a long night!
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Will play 3 at the back next week. Walker making up the third to pocket mbappe.
3-5-2 I reckon
Trippier
Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw
Rice
Hendo
Bellingham
Rashford / Foden
Kane
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We are great on the break, as we demonstrated tonight after the first goal.
Up to then Senegal refused to press high in fact set up 10 yds in their own half and watched us knock it about at the back, then they had their chance which was well saved.
That seemed to give them the confidence to go forward in more numbers, a real mistake and they paid the price when they got stretched.
While they had eleven between the ball and their goal, and tried to pick us off we were slow and vulnerable, a lesson for the England team and ourselves.
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A bit iffy for 35 minutes until we worked out that it isn't a crime to knock it long and relieve some pressure .
Three superbly constructed and well taken goals with the second bang on half time knocking the stuffing completely out of Senegal .
I'd be lying if I said our defence wasn't a concern as we get to the quality end of the tournament .
You'd imagine the French would take at least one the opportunities Senegal had in that first half , maybe both .
That said the French are beatable in my opinion and aren't quite as good as they were four years ago which isn't to say they aren't a good team , four years ago Mbappe was a bit of icing on the cake but now they rely on him big time .
Keep him quiet and we can progress .
A bit quiet about Southgate now Tyke. From 1968 to 2016 England have won six knock out games in major tournaments, Southgate has won six from 2018 to 2022.
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A bit iffy for 35 minutes until we worked out that it isn't a crime to knock it long and relieve some pressure .
Three superbly constructed and well taken goals with the second bang on half time knocking the stuffing completely out of Senegal .
I'd be lying if I said our defence wasn't a concern as we get to the quality end of the tournament .
You'd imagine the French would take at least one the opportunities Senegal had in that first half , maybe both .
That said the French are beatable in my opinion and aren't quite as good as they were four years ago which isn't to say they aren't a good team , four years ago Mbappe was a bit of icing on the cake but now they rely on him big time .
Keep him quiet and we can progress .
A bit quiet about Southgate now Tyke. From 1968 to 2016 England have won six knock out games in major tournaments, Southgate has won six from 2018 to 2022.
And it's not just that, they make most of these games look easy, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago.
Southgate has been brilliant in tournaments undoubtedly. It's a bit of a lottery from here in some ways. If we lose to France you can still say Southgate did a good job.
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I cant remember England ever having such a strong squad. Great options on the bench.
Will Gareth choose rightly & change things early enough if needed? Big concern.
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Goole' is that a reflection on Southgate or the Liverpool, Manchester United entourage not wanting to play with each other.
We also went through periods when better players played with lesser teams and were not considered Le Tissier and Worthington two to come to mind and many others with no or few caps because of the clubs they played for being seen as inferior.
Couple that with managers withdrawing players from squads, plus the FA going foreign with managers because it was cool and the whole chabang was lop sided and anything but serious about having the best team represent the country.
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Maybe we only win the World Cup in a year when the last two numbers are the same. 1966 followed by 2022.
There isn’t another one until 2066.
Better make it this year then hound. I will be 111 in 2066 ;)
And I will be 114.
If we keep in touch maybe we could watch it together.
You'll both have to watch it from above with Dave the Vicar.
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Goole' is that a reflection on Southgate or the Liverpool, Manchester United entourage not wanting to play with each other.
We also went through periods when better players played with lesser teams and were not considered Le Tissier and Worthington two to come to mind and many others with no or few caps because of the clubs they played for being seen as inferior.
Couple that with managers withdrawing players from squads, plus the FA going foreign with managers because it was cool and the whole chabang was lop sided and anything but serious about having the best team represent the country.
And none of that happening now is the true reflection of Southgate's management. I can't recall an England manager talking about the amount of detailed background preparation they do before.
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There's little doubt Southgates pragmatic approach has worked again so far.
He deserves credit for his achievements so far and whilst it could be argued he has the best talent available, he's brought them together and harnessed that talent to a point where we have strong options from the bench.
We know Saturdays going to be a tough game where we will have to be at our intense and patient best but win or lose, he's got the squad into the best possible place mentally and physically (Sterling aside) to take on probably the best team in the world right now.
Just a shame one team has to go home too early.
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as good as we have been I'm sorry to say that Southgate will set us up 'not to lose' rather than 'to win'. We will sit deep against France and park the bus, thus nullifying our attacking potention. We will lose 1-0.
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as good as we have been I'm sorry to say that Southgate will set us up 'not to lose' rather than 'to win'. We will sit deep against France and park the bus, thus nullifying our attacking potention. We will lose 1-0.
You may be right, and I'm also uncomfortable with that approach, but I've been proven wrong so far.
The USA game was poor from that perspective but v Wales and Senegal it shows we can break the lines and spring out from the cautious play. Maybe he has learned from previous experiences.
We wouldn't be surprised if we suck France in and live dangerously but how we counter is the key to the match. France aren't infallible.
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I think last night's game in the first 30 minutes we saw an alternative answer to playing out from the back.
Senegal just did not press at all, the front players stopping ten yards in their own half, one of them making a token effort just to force a pass across the field halfway in our own half from me to you, and waiting to strike with us having room behind our back four and our own penalty area, like a slow motion chess game.
If they had taken that one chance our keeper did well to keep out, they would never have changed their play, but they then got excited backed by a noisy set of supporters and opened up and pushed for a goal, and got caught on the break game over.
Against teams happy to be slow and predictable playing out from the back, staying set up and not challenging just waiting for a mistake is a lot safer than a high press, and you always have three banks of players between the ball and your goal especially against teams like us who will make that mistake. I think we will see more of it, it's boring but clubs will see that first half an hour as a way to be in the game for long periods just like the Italians and Uruguay in the 50's and 60's who stifled games.
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Let’s not forget that Pickford pulled a worldy one handed save
If that had gone in it may have been a different game
In the end I thought it seemed quite an easy night
France will be different. Mbappe and Dembele were pacey against Poland. Walker and Shaw will really have their hands full. Same with Giroud he’s a quality forward always has been. The defence will have to work hard to stop that attacking threat And on top of that Greizmann supporting
I think France have looked really good so far. If they beat France then it’s game on.
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Phil, I accept your opinion matey but I have no doubt that there will be people in France saying similar things about the English players and our potential for winning the game.
It is natural to be nervous when a big game comes along.
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Well said Tyke. Never thought I would be agreeing with your Barnsley type philosophy on here but what you say about Southgate is absolutely bang on the button. He has been unbelievably lucky at how the tournaments and the draws have unwound and in the class and quality of players he has inherited. He is vastly overrated but fits snugly into the FA mindset. His safety first mentality and poor grasp of tactics have won us nothing and that isn't going to change. The sooner him and his boring personality are gone the better off we will be.
Van Gaal perfectly illustrating the difference between a canny tactical brain and hmm Gareth this afternoon .
The US were totally baffled because the Netherlands let them have the ball and played on the counter .
I'm not suggesting the Netherlands will win the world cup but simply demonstrating the difference between someone who knows his onions tactically and one who has his best strengths off the field .
Totally agree with that, Tyke. Many pundits have described the USA midfield as the most technically gifted midfield so far in the competition, and I've really enjoyed watching them; but Van Gaal had a plan to nullify that threat, and executed it perfectly.
Most technically gifted midfield in the tournament
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The BBC news sight says that’s happening
What a joke. I thought he said he’d play people on form.obviously not
Saka was in form
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There's little doubt Southgates pragmatic approach has worked again so far.
He deserves credit for his achievements so far and whilst it could be argued he has the best talent available, he's brought them together and harnessed that talent to a point where we have strong options from the bench.
We know Saturdays going to be a tough game where we will have to be at our intense and patient best but win or lose, he's got the squad into the best possible place mentally and physically (Sterling aside) to take on probably the best team in the world right now.
Just a shame one team has to go home too early.
We’re comfortably the top scorers in the competition, no way have we been defensive in this World Cup.
Look at the sides he’s picking, Bellingham, saka, Kane, foden, how anyone can think having those 4 in your starting 11 is pragmatic is beyond me
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Let’s not forget that Pickford pulled a worldy one handed save
If that had gone in it may have been a different game
In the end I thought it seemed quite an easy night
France will be different. Mbappe and Dembele were pacey against Poland. Walker and Shaw will really have their hands full. Same with Giroud he’s a quality forward always has been. The defence will have to work hard to stop that attacking threat And on top of that Greizmann supporting
I think France have looked really good so far. If they beat France then it’s game on.
Lloris had to pull off more saves against Poland than Pickford did last night.
And Senegal are a much better side than Poland
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as good as we have been I'm sorry to say that Southgate will set us up 'not to lose' rather than 'to win'. We will sit deep against France and park the bus, thus nullifying our attacking potention. We will lose 1-0.
We will win 3-1 and the set up will be a positive attacking 1
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Let’s not forget that Pickford pulled a worldy one handed save
If that had gone in it may have been a different game
In the end I thought it seemed quite an easy night
France will be different. Mbappe and Dembele were pacey against Poland. Walker and Shaw will really have their hands full. Same with Giroud he’s a quality forward always has been. The defence will have to work hard to stop that attacking threat And on top of that Greizmann supporting
I think France have looked really good so far. If they beat France then it’s game on.
Lloris had to pull off more saves against Poland than Pickford did last night.
And Senegal are a much better side than Poland
Good shout. Apart from those couple of Senagal chances, we controlled the game so well and to any impartial observer, the game must have seemed over with 30 mins left to play.
Yes, France have an advantage in terms of experience of winning big games but there's no doubt they'll be worried about us. If we can get into the game and create problems early doors, we'll sow seeds of doubt in their heads. Works both ways of course.
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Southgate is doing alright IMO. The only other bloke I'd like to see doing the team talk for Saturday would be Ben Stokes.
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A bit iffy for 35 minutes until we worked out that it isn't a crime to knock it long and relieve some pressure .
Three superbly constructed and well taken goals with the second bang on half time knocking the stuffing completely out of Senegal .
I'd be lying if I said our defence wasn't a concern as we get to the quality end of the tournament .
You'd imagine the French would take at least one the opportunities Senegal had in that first half , maybe both .
That said the French are beatable in my opinion and aren't quite as good as they were four years ago which isn't to say they aren't a good team , four years ago Mbappe was a bit of icing on the cake but now they rely on him big time .
Keep him quiet and we can progress .
A bit quiet about Southgate now Tyke. From 1968 to 2016 England have won six knock out games in major tournaments, Southgate has won six from 2018 to 2022.
We've won nowt yet , nowt in this game for hard lines and cudda's and shudda's .
The minimum requirement was the quarter finals which he's achieved .
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Southgate will select the right starting line up. I don't have faith in him changing it if France get in top of us. Hopefully learnt from the Croatia and Italy games.
Apart from Mbappe and Varane. None of the rest of their team gets in ours.
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Southgate will select the right starting line up. I don't have faith in him changing it if France get in top of us. Hopefully learnt from the Croatia and Italy games.
Apart from Mbappe and Varane. None of the rest of their team gets in ours.
I see Saliba as France’s best centre back, not sure how he’s not getting a game but he’d be in my team ahead of Varane, don’t think he’s looked as good since moving to Utd. Theo Hernandez is class, he’d play ahead of Luke Shaw. I think you’d also find a place for Griezemann; I’ve never really seen what the fuss is about but think he looks really good in a deeper role in this tournament.
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Griezmann has looked alright but he’s not getting in the side ahead of Bellingham, foden, Kane, saka
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Them Spanish penalties were so awful it made me wonder if they were trying to throw the match!
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No way that Hakimi can sit down comfortably with b*llocks that big.
Outstanding.
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The new camera angle from that suspended camera behind the pen taker don't half make the goals look small.
Morocco play such a frantic style of game, they will more than match anyone. If they can just get a bit more composure in front of goal, I see them waiting for the winners of us v France.
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Spain can only blame themselves, lots of pretty passing but zero end product
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Spain can only blame themselves, lots of pretty passing but zero end product
Where have I seen that before?
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Spain can only blame themselves, lots of pretty passing but zero end product
Where have I seen that before?
Yeah, I know
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Be funny if France just stick Mbappe on Luke Shaw and Maguire’s side
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i remember when MBE thats a good name for im came to my attention - seems like years ago when Monaco slaughteres Man City in the 2nd leg of the European Cup (as i call it) i think City were 2 goals ahead from the first leg they had a couple of ringers
i just looked at that team and amazed what future Man city players were in the Monaco team
a certain MR Aguero for one
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=monco++v+man+city#sie=m;/g/11ggrkvwtk;2;/m/0c1q0;ln;fp;1;;;
i dont (famous last words )see him as a threat
but i see their Tottenham goalie as a total liability 3-0 england please
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Has Martin Woods been coaching Harry Kane?
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Has Martin Woods been coaching Harry Kane?
That was my first thought as it sailed over ths bar.
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No complaints. France had a bit more quality up front and I think their experience showed ultimately.
Very close.
I fancy France to win it, though I hope Morocco pull off the upset of alltime
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We were the better side second half. Deserved to get to extra time. Anyone can miss a pen, it’s the first one I have seen Kane not score from.
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
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Kyle Walker made Mbappe look extremely ordinary. Walker should come away from that game with huge satisfaction. Allegedly best player on planet was a virtual passenger.
How did we manage to go out of the World Cup to a headed goal from a cross?
The pressure on Kane with his second penalty. Should have been someone else as the choice was too much given he’d scored already and it was his club mate.
Most of those lot will be still there in four years. Maybe not Kane though and there isn’t an obvious replacement emerging yet. That’s an issue.
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No complaints from me. They were better than us over the 90 minutes. They moved the ball forward quicker, and their passing was more precise.
Also, they scored 2 very good goals, to our penalty kick. No way we deserved to win that game.
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I felt it was a mistake to replace Saka. They were really struggling with him
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Some of the worlds best have missed pens, the pressure in those situations is something that the average bloke can’t imagine.
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The less said about the ref the better.
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
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Sakka was injured, that’s why he went off.
No fault aimed at Kane at all.
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Same old, same old, if you can’t even hit the target from a penalty you don’t deserve to win, simple as! It’s the hope that kills you every time! F*ck England, come on rovers
:suicide:
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
100% this. No way players wages come into it.
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Some of the worlds best have missed pens, the pressure in those situations is something that the average bloke can’t imagine.
Totally agree, mate. The defeat wasn't down to him. They were better than us, that's all.
Anyway, the Rovers won, so it's been a good day as far as I'm concerned.
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
I stand by what I said, I don’t buy the pressure theory, i’d back myself everytime to get a shot on target from 12 yards
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We need a winner in charge that's the difference between us and the top teams.
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We need a winner in charge that's the difference between us and the top teams.
WTF?
Remind me which manager got England to the last World Cup semi final and to the euros final.?
There’s no disgrace in getting beat by the world champions, especially having competed equally and created enough to have drawn or won.
We did a damned sight better than Spain, Germany, and Belgium who were ranked 2nd in the world. Not to mention European champions Italy..
Of course it is tremendously disappointing to go out, but like someone else said, we didn’t go out with a whimper this time.
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I share this view that we matched France all the way, and only went out by smallest margin. We’ve also done very well in three tournaments now. My only fear is that like Dutch or Belgians is this a generation that needs to win something because we might not have same again for some time. Perhaps not, maybe FA and clubs have their act together permanently.
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Best knockout stage performance I've ever seen from England. That was massively unlucky. Two shockingly bad VAR decisions in the first half set the scene but England did superbly to come back against the best side of this generation.
Anyone saying they'd hit the target from a penalty is missing the point. It's not about hitting the target. It's about hitting the target with a shot struck at 70mph. Do it slower and a world class keeper will be able to stand still till he sees where the ball is going, and then save it. The pressure on Kane would have been ferocious. Mistakes like that happen.
As for people blaming Southgate...give me f**king strength.
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
I stand by what I said, I don’t buy the pressure theory, i’d back myself everytime to get a shot on target from 12 yards
LoL.
You might have forgotten that you have also got to get the ball past the keeper who is trying to stop you scoring.
I would imagine that a man on one leg and crutches could roll the ball on target but he might not score.
You might not buy the pressure thing because you have never taken one in a pressure situation.
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Tend to agree it's another sad missed opportunity.
We had them on the rack but then you see us starting to drop off again. Gareth was discussing subs at about 64 mins but dithered and they gather their composure again and score on 78 mins before we then make the sub!
The last thing France wanted to see was Rashford running at them. He should have been on to maintain our momentum.
Yes we had the chance to get back in it again and you ain't giving that ball to anyone else but Kane.
Extremely fine lines in football but yet again we've fallen the wrong side of that line with a bit of bad luck and a lack of killer instinct.
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I share this view that we matched France all the way, and only went out by smallest margin. We’ve also done very well in three tournaments now. My only fear is that like Dutch or Belgians is this a generation that needs to win something because we might not have same again for some time. Perhaps not, maybe FA and clubs have their act together permanently.
The next Euros are only just over 18 months away, CBCB. I think most of our young players will still be together for that; and should do well again.
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No blame can be aimed at Southgate. We had the chances to win the game and didn’t take them, we made France look ordinary, Mbappe best player in the world, don’t make me laugh, the players on the pitch underperformed in the first half and didn’t have the belief in the second. The ref and other officials were beyond poor but not the reason we lost.
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Blame is too harsh a word. Southgate got 99% right most of the ingredients to get us to this stage and a chance to win the game.
We allow teams off the hook at crucial times and the players, manager and coaches need to look into that collectively.
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
I stand by what I said, I don’t buy the pressure theory, i’d back myself everytime to get a shot on target from 12 yards
And I imagine that Kane would back himself to taxi punters from A to B on a Saturday night but it’s unlikely either one of you will ever get the chance to test the theory.
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Second half excellent and England were the better team
If only they'd played with the same intent in the first half.
Over 90 minutes the bravest and best performing team deservedly won.
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
I stand by what I said, I don’t buy the pressure theory, i’d back myself everytime to get a shot on target from 12 yards
And I imagine that Kane would back himself to taxi punters from A to B on a Saturday night but it’s unlikely either one of you will ever get the chance to test the theory.
Very true, I don’t work Saturday nights
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Wow that is very harsh. The amount they get paid is irrelevant.
Pressure situation against his club keeper.
Mind games with this one especially as he had already scored from a pen.
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No complaints from me. They were better than us over the 90 minutes. They moved the ball forward quicker, and their passing was more precise.
Also, they scored 2 very good goals, to our penalty kick. No way we deserved to win that game.
Disagree SS
We created more chances than they did. Overall we edged it imo. Just wasn’t to be. AGAIN.
As for the ref well. Don’t know what to say. As for VAR, waste of time isn’t it. Complete joke.
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We'll never win anything with Southgate in charge. France have won with half their side injured. Never a better chance of beating them.
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We didn’t have the killer instinct but then you can level that at the United Kingdom in general other than Ben Stokes who is doing it in Cricket. We have the talent but play meekly because we feel like we have to apologise for every past transgressions. It’s about time we started to say it wasn’t me and use the gifts they’ve been given
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We'll never win anything with Southgate in charge. France have won with half their side injured. Never a better chance of beating them.
Here we go again your football knowledge is questionable I bet you were one of those who said Marquis was a championship player worth 2 million.
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I never thought we had control of the game despite having some decent spells .
I find this hard luck theory completely nauseating to be honest .
Gone on too many years for me to be down to hard luck .
At this level we've had opportunities to win tournaments over the last 32 years and it always ends the same way , we bottle the big moments , that's not bad luck that's a flaw in our DNA and until that nut is cracked if it ever can be the wait for a major tournament will continue .
I'm not Southgate's greatest admirer by any means but he's had a decent tournament other than the US game from the technical area .
However I think it's time for a change personally , everyone has a sell by date in football and Southgate is in that territory .
Time for a new man , different perspective and some fresh ideas to take to the next Euros in 2024 .
Eddie Howe would be my man .
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
I stand by what I said, I don’t buy the pressure theory, i’d back myself everytime to get a shot on target from 12 yards
And I imagine that Kane would back himself to taxi punters from A to B on a Saturday night but it’s unlikely either one of you will ever get the chance to test the theory.
Very true, I don’t work Saturday nights
Too busy basking in the glory of those high stakes penalties you’ve been slotting in on a Saturday afternoon, no doubt.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
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Some of the worlds best have missed pens, the pressure in those situations is something that the average bloke can’t imagine.
Totally agree, mate. The defeat wasn't down to him. They were better than us, that's all.
Anyway, the Rovers won, so it's been a good day as far as I'm concerned.
Anyone watching that game, and coming out of it thinking France were the better side need help.
England were by far the better side and got robbed by a few terrible decisions and a terrible missed pen.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
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I never thought we had control of the game despite having some decent spells .
I find this hard luck theory completely nauseating to be honest .
Gone on too many years for me to be down to hard luck .
At this level we've had opportunities to win tournaments over the last 32 years and it always ends the same way , we bottle the big moments , that's not bad luck that's a flaw in our DNA and until that nut is cracked if it ever can be the wait for a major tournament will continue .
I'm not Southgate's greatest admirer by any means but he's had a decent tournament other than the US game from the technical area .
However I think it's time for a change personally , everyone has a sell by date in football and Southgate is in that territory .
Time for a new man , different perspective and some fresh ideas to take to the next Euros in 2024 .
Eddie Howe would be my man .
Howe won't be available
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Can only think Kane should have drilled it down the middle and cal Lloris’s bluff. Ay ho the better team lost and as rovers fans we know all about that. There is always tomorrow.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
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I just hope that Kane isn't subject to any racist abuse
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When players are being paid thousands and thousands a week, the minimum you could expect when they take a penalty is to work the goalkeeper and get it inside the posts and under the crossbar
Good grief. Have you seen the state of some of the penalties this World Cup? Players miss them. Pressure does things. 1 in 4 penalties are missed, however much you pay players that’s not going to increase the likelihood of scoring.
We played well. We lost to the champions. Hurts as this team could so easily have gone on to win it but going out like this is so much better than the whimpers of 2002, 2006, 2010, 2016 etc etc.
I stand by what I said, I don’t buy the pressure theory, i’d back myself everytime to get a shot on target from 12 yards
And I imagine that Kane would back himself to taxi punters from A to B on a Saturday night but it’s unlikely either one of you will ever get the chance to test the theory.
Very true, I don’t work Saturday nights
Is that because you can’t stand the pressure!
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Gutted.
Very even game that & didn’t expect to concede & header from Giroud with our centre backs.
Would like to have seen Grealish on earlier as hes great at running at defences & taking pressure away from our midfield.
Cant remember seeing a worse refereeing performance.. very suspect.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
So drawing against Japan and beating them on pens is better than beating Senegal 3-0 is it?
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What a World Cup for England, yes we lost but we played attacking football in every game bar the USA game, we were the better team against the best team in the world and people still want the manager sacked, apart from winning the World Cup what else can he do
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5 matches. Only 1 of them we played a team on par.
Only at the Euros did we beat someone on par with us. The worst Germany side for decades. Belgium twice, Croatia, Italy, now France.
Wouldn't call him a failure, he's not done have us lose to someone rubbish. He's not got us beat anyone decent though.
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Saka absolutely brilliant all game. To take him off when chasing the game was madness.
I don’t think there’s anyone who necessarily had a bad game. Only Foden could have got involved more for me. Rashford should have been introduced earlier.
But, we’ve been knocked out by 2 moments of sheer quality from them. On another day we go through there. It’s a long way from the Iceland euros humiliation.
The penalty must have been too much for Kane with it being Lloris. I think he tried a penalty that he doesn’t normally try.
The French have a WC winning expert in charge and players with more winning experience and mentality. Perhaps the fine margins are in that?
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We'll never win anything with Southgate in charge. France have won with half their side injured. Never a better chance of beating them.
Here we go again your football knowledge is questionable I bet you were one of those who said Marquis was a championship player worth 2 million.
Can never resist a random dig at John Marquis, eh. It really is a very weird obsession with one of the best goalscorers in the club's history.
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The Euro qualifying campaign looks very interesting. Brutally, our first game probably decides it all, away to Italy in March. If we can avoid defeat there, we are probably in the driving seat.
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5 matches. Only 1 of them we played a team on par.
Only at the Euros did we beat someone on par with us. The worst Germany side for decades. Belgium twice, Croatia, Italy, now France.
Wouldn't call him a failure, he's not done have us lose to someone rubbish. He's not got us beat anyone decent though.
We beat Croatia in the last euros and Germany, plus a galvanised denmark side that were beating everything.
We played the word champions last night and were the better side,
But the folk who don’t like the manager will never come round to dishing out any credit,
Same with club football if you set your stall out not to like someone very rarely do people change their mind regardless of how well they do
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The Euro qualifying campaign looks very interesting. Brutally, our first game probably decides it all, away to Italy in March. If we can avoid defeat there, we are probably in the driving seat.
Top two qualify anyhow
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Ukraine are in the group as well that could throw up some results
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I was more gutted at rovers losing to kings lynn.
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What did VAR get wrong?
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
So drawing against Japan and beating them on pens is better than beating Senegal 3-0 is it?
We were talking about high pressure penalty kicks I believe .
You said we miss just as many as anybody else , which is just plain wrong because everyone knows it's our nemesis , the facts are the facts .
In tournament football it really doesn't matter how you progress to the next stage just as long as you do and Croatia are in there second consecutive semi final because they were also more mentally stronger than the pre tournament favourites when it mattered the most .
This is something that consistently let's us down at tournaments and shows no sign of going away .
Kane's penalty was high pressure last night , the same conditions were in play as a penalty shoot out and his head was so scrambled he put it 3 foot over the bar , the brutal truth is he bottled it .
I'm not so critical as to expect the England team to win every penalty shoot out they are involved in , the Brazilians , French , Argentinean's and the Italians have all lost them but they've won plenty of them too , the Brazilians and Italians have won a World Cup and a Euros from the penalty spot .
It's an unfortunate truth that in high pressure situations we crumble , mentally weak .
The facts are the facts given our appalling record , if it was just down to luck we'd win 50% of them because that's the laws of probability .
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If England had picked the right team we'd have probably won the game.
The starting line-up should have been......
Pickford; Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw; Henderson, Rice, Bellingham; Saka, Filo, Foden.
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What a World Cup for England, yes we lost but we played attacking football in every game bar the USA game, we were the better team against the best team in the world and people still want the manager sacked, apart from winning the World Cup what else can he do
Depends where your personal bar is set .
The bar to me should be set at lifting a major trophy , I don't expect all the stars that are on the German and Brazilian shirts by any means .
I find the hard luck but well played thing nauseating to be honest but that's just me personally .
No country has a god given right to success , ourselves included , but our record at tournament football isn't good enough in my opinion .
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
So drawing against Japan and beating them on pens is better than beating Senegal 3-0 is it?
We were talking about high pressure penalty kicks I believe .
You said we miss just as many as anybody else , which is just plain wrong because everyone knows it's our nemesis , the facts are the facts .
In tournament football it really doesn't matter how you progress to the next stage just as long as you do and Croatia are in there second consecutive semi final because they were also more mentally stronger than the pre tournament favourites when it mattered the most .
This is something that consistently let's us down at tournaments and shows no sign of going away .
Kane's penalty was high pressure last night , the same conditions were in play as a penalty shoot out and his head was so scrambled he put it 3 foot over the bar , the brutal truth is he bottled it .
I'm not so critical as to expect the England team to win every penalty shoot out they are involved in , the Brazilians , French , Argentinean's and the Italians have all lost them but they've won plenty of them too , the Brazilians and Italians have won a World Cup and a Euros from the penalty spot .
It's an unfortunate truth that in high pressure situations we crumble , mentally weak .
The facts are the facts given our appalling record , if it was just down to luck we'd win 50% of them because that's the laws of probability .
In one breath you’re saying it means nothing that England got to a World Cup semi and a euro final and then in the next your slinging praise at Croatia for reaching two World Cup semi’s
That just sums up your mentality whatever England do isn’t good enough but when others do the same then they’ve done better than England
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Anyone watching that game, and coming out of it thinking France were the better side need help.
England were by far the better side and got robbed by a few terrible decisions and a terrible missed pen.
I'll get in touch with some kind of Counsellor then!
I agree England were the better side in the 2nd half once they were given licence to play. But the first half scoreline was a fair reflection.
In that first half England's possession was mainly slow, ponderous and pointless. So many 1-2's between centre halfs in their own half, balls into the midfield which were immediately returned and players standing on the ball pointing.
The French in comparison when given the opportunity attacked with pace. Where this wasn't possible, in complete contrast to England, they played possession football at a decent tempo in their opponents half probing the England defence and getting their creative players on the ball.
England's ponderous, unadventurous first half display gave a quality French team a half time head start which they could ill afford to allow them. Even when second best top class sides can hurt you in an instant - as the French second goal showed.
I'll repeat over the 90 minutes the braver and better side won.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
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Anyone watching that game, and coming out of it thinking France were the better side need help.
England were by far the better side and got robbed by a few terrible decisions and a terrible missed pen.
I'll get in touch with some kind of Counsellor then!
I agree England were the better side in the 2nd half once they were given licence to play. But the first half scoreline was a fair reflection.
In that first half England's possession was mainly slow, ponderous and pointless. So many 1-2's between centre halfs in their own half, balls into the midfield which were immediately returned and players standing on the ball pointing.
The French in comparison when given the opportunity attacked with pace. Where this wasn't possible, in complete contrast to England, they played possession football at a decent tempo in their opponents half probing the England defence and getting their creative players on the ball.
England's ponderous, unadventurous first half display gave a quality French team a half time head start which they could ill afford to allow them. Even when second best top class sides can hurt you in an instance - as the French second goal showed.
I'll repeat over the 90 minutes the braver and better side won.
Not for me,
And the stars showing we had more shots, more shots on target, more crosses into the box, more touches in the opposing box, more corners, etc etc also show we were the side probing and being brave and getting into dangerous situations
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2nd half England were excellent.
England's 1st half approach corresponds exactly from 1m30sec of this www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSHoMQFtEVc - My views on England's first half agree with both comments from the crowd on 1m53 and 1m55.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
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That’s how England play, that’s how the best club sides in the world play.
France were the better side until they scored, from that minute on we were comfortably the better side
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We've got a hell of a lot better these last few years. England has though significantly underperformed the other major European nations of Germany, France, Spain and Italy when it comes to the two major tournaments. All of them have won the World Cup and Euro double, and all of them have won the World Cup away from home.
We lag these four historically and we have only won the World Cup at home (and a shorter tournament as following the groups then it was straight to the QF, and every one of our games in 1966 was at Wembley) and our best Euro performances in 1996 and 2021 we played all of our games as host (aside from a single game in Rome v Ukraine in 2021).
Arguably our best ever tournament performances were Italy 1990 and Russia 2018 when we got to the World Cup semi finals away from home, going out on penalties in the former and in extra time in the latter. These are both very strong tournament performances historically.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
So drawing against Japan and beating them on pens is better than beating Senegal 3-0 is it?
We were talking about high pressure penalty kicks I believe .
You said we miss just as many as anybody else , which is just plain wrong because everyone knows it's our nemesis , the facts are the facts .
In tournament football it really doesn't matter how you progress to the next stage just as long as you do and Croatia are in there second consecutive semi final because they were also more mentally stronger than the pre tournament favourites when it mattered the most .
This is something that consistently let's us down at tournaments and shows no sign of going away .
Kane's penalty was high pressure last night , the same conditions were in play as a penalty shoot out and his head was so scrambled he put it 3 foot over the bar , the brutal truth is he bottled it .
I'm not so critical as to expect the England team to win every penalty shoot out they are involved in , the Brazilians , French , Argentinean's and the Italians have all lost them but they've won plenty of them too , the Brazilians and Italians have won a World Cup and a Euros from the penalty spot .
It's an unfortunate truth that in high pressure situations we crumble , mentally weak .
The facts are the facts given our appalling record , if it was just down to luck we'd win 50% of them because that's the laws of probability .
In one breath you’re saying it means nothing that England got to a World Cup semi and a euro final and then in the next your slinging praise at Croatia for reaching two World Cup semi’s
That just sums up your mentality whatever England do isn’t good enough but when others do the same then they’ve done better than England
It wasn't so much as admiration but more of acknowledgment .
For a relatively new country and small population three world cup semi finals and a final and whose to say they won't make this one either it's pretty impressive in my opinion when you factor everything in .
Defiantly more bang for the buck than we are achieving that's for sure .
For the record I'll dance in the streets when we actually win something again .
Glorious failure isn't for me as far as England is concerned .
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
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5 matches. Only 1 of them we played a team on par.
Only at the Euros did we beat someone on par with us. The worst Germany side for decades. Belgium twice, Croatia, Italy, now France.
Wouldn't call him a failure, he's not done have us lose to someone rubbish. He's not got us beat anyone decent though.
Neither has any other manager for 56 years.
Why do you think the problem is the manager?
You said categorically that we had the best front line in the tournament. But the difference between the teams last night was a superb performance by Griezmann.
That wasn't due to managerial decisions. It's because Griezmann is a better player than any we currently have. Put him in that England side last night and we win comfortably.
The challenge for Foden, Grealish, Bellingham and Sako is to sit down and watch Griezmann's performance last night and have that as the standard for them to expect of themselves when they are at the very height of their ability.
Or we could just blame the manager, like we have done since before my balls dropped.
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Reflecting the day after, I've not really changed my mind on what I saw last night.
Once back in the game at 1-1, we were in the ascendancy, and as said at that point on 64 mins ish, you could see Southgate discussing subs.
Henderson on a couple of occasions ran out to close them down, and on second occasion he turned round and rollocked his teammates for not backing him up....I shouted at the TV "Go and win it Gareth".
Given a few more minutes, we allowed to French to settle again, yet no sub appeared and within a couple of minutes of me saying to my mates, he's leaving it too late, they scored on 78 mins. Cue subs. Yes of course we had a golden chance to get back into the game, but at this top level, you can’t take your foot off the gas until you get in front.
We let them off the hook and to leave Rashford & Co too little time is not using the strength of the squad we believe we have.
It's the third time now Gareth has been reactive rather than pro active with his subs. Those 14 mins were crucial.
I don't want to crucify the guy but when will the penny drop? That said, a bit more collective bravery is the icing on the top that makes us into winners and is the holy grail that most international managers seek. Spain struggled for so long by not being able to convert their ability into a winning mentality, which they seem to have resorted to again.
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5 matches. Only 1 of them we played a team on par.
Only at the Euros did we beat someone on par with us. The worst Germany side for decades. Belgium twice, Croatia, Italy, now France.
Wouldn't call him a failure, he's not done have us lose to someone rubbish. He's not got us beat anyone decent though.
Neither has any other manager for 56 years.
Why do you think the problem is the manager?
You said categorically that we had the best front line in the tournament. But the difference between the teams last night was a superb performance by Griezmann.
That wasn't due to managerial decisions. It's because Griezmann is a better player than any we currently have. Put him in that England side last night and we win comfortably.
The challenge for Foden, Grealish, Bellingham and Sako is to sit down and watch Griezmann's performance last night and have that as the standard for them to expect of themselves when they are at the very height of their ability.
Or we could just blame the manager, like we have done since before my balls dropped.
As good as he was, another day he would have been sent off. I would be interested in seeing how many fouls he gave away. Watching in the pub nearly every foul seemed to be him. How he didn’t get booked earlier for accumulation of fouls is beyond me.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
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There was defiantly something iffy going on with that referee .
I'm not one for sour grapes by any means but he was defiantly against us that's for sure .
You wouldn't put anything past FIFA would you given what we know about them today .
Very suspicious to say the least .
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tyke1962, that is more like the truth, a referee who misses three big calls all game changing, the foul on Saka, the first call for a penalty on Kane, and he didn't give the one on Mount, causing an unnecessary delay and French antics tells me.
1) he is totally inept, or,
2) he is cheating.
I can't believe we get the hand of god, the disallowed goal v Germany and yesterdays performance by being inept when they get to that level, and so regular in competitions run by FIFA, who have history with the FA. so think they are a big part in collusion,
I think they cheat and are told to favour certain teams,
One big question, who thinks Messi and Neymar would have been awarded a penalty for the Kane and Bellingham fouls in the box? nobody even looking at the second one and the first a nailed on one.
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Christ are we REALLY still having that England against The Rest of the World mentality?
What about the greatest ever error by officials in a World Cup final?
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tyke1962, that is more like the truth, a referee who misses three big calls all game changing, the foul on Saka, the first call for a penalty on Kane, and he didn't give the one on Mount, causing an unnecessary delay and French antics tells me.
1) he is totally inept, or,
2) he is cheating.
I can't believe we get the hand of god, the disallowed goal v Germany and yesterdays performance by being inept when they get to that level, and so regular in competitions run by FIFA, who have history with the FA. so think they are a big part in collusion,
I think they cheat and are told to favour certain teams,
One big question, who thinks Messi and Neymar would have been awarded a penalty for the Kane and Bellingham fouls in the box? nobody even looking at the second one and the first a nailed on one.
You could also add the two Sol Campbell disallowed goals in extra time against Argentina in 98 and Portugal in 2004 for good measure .
We all know the shenanigans regarding hosting a World Cup but none the less the fact that this country has only ever had it awarded once is more than suspicious .
Taking it around the world argument doesn't wash either , this will be the second time the US have had it , the last in only 1994 , Mexico have had it three times since 1970 .
Brazil twice , Germany twice , Italy and France twice .
More than suspicious .
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Christ are we REALLY still having that England against The Rest of the World mentality?
What about the greatest ever error by officials in a World Cup final?
Most of us were not even born when that incident occurred against the Germans at Wembley. but your sentiment is right, we got the hometown decision there.
Yesterday we had it in our hands to progress but blew it, we can't blame anyone else.
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Christ are we REALLY still having that England against The Rest of the World mentality?
What about the greatest ever error by officials in a World Cup final?
It may well have been an error Billy I guess we will never know .
Hardly comparable to the Hand Of God and Lampards goal two foot over the line now is it .
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Let’s not forget that had Kane scored the second penalty, the score would have just been 2-2 - it wasn’t for a winner. Yes of course we would have still been in the game with a chance of winning, but by no means guaranteed.
A bit like all the fuss when Thierry Henry hand balled before France scored vs Ireland - that wasn’t a winning goal either but for all the fuss made afterwards you could have sworn it was.
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Harry Kane has never won anything of significance with either Spurs or England.
Olivier Giroud has won a World Cup, the Champions League, Europa League, Serie A and 4 FA Cups.
It's experience of winning things at club level that tells in the big moments of international games. And that showed yesterday.
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Christ are we REALLY still having that England against The Rest of the World mentality?
What about the greatest ever error by officials in a World Cup final?
It may well have been an error Billy I guess we will never know .
Hardly comparable to the Hand Of God and Lampards goal two foot over the line now is it .
We do know without question that England's 3rd goal in the 66 final should not have stood. Not even remotely up for discussion.
And of course it's comparable. They are all basic mistakes by officials.
As was the awarding of a penalty when Owen dived against Argentina in 2002.
As was the officials missing Crouch pulling the hair of a Trinidadian centre half before scoring in 2006.
Claiming there's some sort of bias of the entire system against England is beyond farcical.
Yes the ref was absolutely dreadful last night. But to extrapolate from that to a systemic bias against England is embarrassing.
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We all know the shenanigans regarding hosting a World Cup but none the less the fact that this country has only ever had it awarded once is more than suspicious .
Taking it around the world argument doesn't wash either , this will be the second time the US have had it , the last in only 1994 , Mexico have had it three times since 1970 .
Brazil twice , Germany twice , Italy and France twice .
More than suspicious .
You're doing a bit, right? A parody.
Aside from Mexico, who only hosted the 1986 World Cup as a late replacement because Colombia (the planned hosts) were unable to, the other countries you pick out for hosting it twice did so at intervals of roughly 60 years. That would mean England would be in with a great shout of hosting the next finals that take place in Europe, which would be in 2030. They haven't (as yet) put a bid in. Hardly an incredible global conspiracy is it?
Besides, given the absolute organisational car crash England made of the 2020(1) Euros Final, we should probably be thankful they haven't had a second World Cup.
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It pains me to say it, but England are a really good football team with really good football players. They also have the ideal manager for where they are and who they are right now.
Thing is though, in a World Cup, especially once you get to the knockout rounds, really good football teams can still lose football matches. Because the standard of opposition is so high.
I just don't get why so many England fans see defeat for the national team in the last eight, last four, or last two of a competition as some sort of great travesty or failure. You have never had such a sustained period of success, you should be revelling in it, and yet there's still this inherent belief that a different manager could take them further, or a different formation could change everything, and so something has to change. From the outside it's really weird.
I'd say take this exit on the chin and, given the quality crop of young players you have, look forward with great excitement to the next tournament.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .
Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .
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Some of the worlds best have missed pens, the pressure in those situations is something that the average bloke can’t imagine.
Totally agree, mate. The defeat wasn't down to him. They were better than us, that's all.
Anyway, the Rovers won, so it's been a good day as far as I'm concerned.
Anyone watching that game, and coming out of it thinking France were the better side need help.
England were by far the better side and got robbed by a few terrible decisions and a terrible missed pen.
Need help? F*ck me, talk about an hysterical overreaction to someone's post. I didn't use the same OTT semantics as you, by suggesting that France were BY FAR the better side, I simply said they were IMO the better team on the day.
In any case, you need to rethink your words if you're really saying that a team is "by far" the better team, despite not scoring a single goal in open play, against a team that scores two.
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tyke1962, that is more like the truth, a referee who misses three big calls all game changing, the foul on Saka, the first call for a penalty on Kane, and he didn't give the one on Mount, causing an unnecessary delay and French antics tells me.
1) he is totally inept, or,
2) he is cheating.
I can't believe we get the hand of god, the disallowed goal v Germany and yesterdays performance by being inept when they get to that level, and so regular in competitions run by FIFA, who have history with the FA. so think they are a big part in collusion,
I think they cheat and are told to favour certain teams,
One big question, who thinks Messi and Neymar would have been awarded a penalty for the Kane and Bellingham fouls in the box? nobody even looking at the second one and the first a nailed on one.
You could also add the two Sol Campbell disallowed goals in extra time against Argentina in 98 and Portugal in 2004 for good measure .
We all know the shenanigans regarding hosting a World Cup but none the less the fact that this country has only ever had it awarded once is more than suspicious .
Taking it around the world argument doesn't wash either , this will be the second time the US have had it , the last in only 1994 , Mexico have had it three times since 1970 .
Brazil twice , Germany twice , Italy and France twice .
More than suspicious .
What years has Mexico hosted it? I know my memory might be going but I can only remember them hosting it twice. I seem to have lost one.
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tyke1962, that is more like the truth, a referee who misses three big calls all game changing, the foul on Saka, the first call for a penalty on Kane, and he didn't give the one on Mount, causing an unnecessary delay and French antics tells me.
1) he is totally inept, or,
2) he is cheating.
I can't believe we get the hand of god, the disallowed goal v Germany and yesterdays performance by being inept when they get to that level, and so regular in competitions run by FIFA, who have history with the FA. so think they are a big part in collusion,
I think they cheat and are told to favour certain teams,
One big question, who thinks Messi and Neymar would have been awarded a penalty for the Kane and Bellingham fouls in the box? nobody even looking at the second one and the first a nailed on one.
You could also add the two Sol Campbell disallowed goals in extra time against Argentina in 98 and Portugal in 2004 for good measure .
We all know the shenanigans regarding hosting a World Cup but none the less the fact that this country has only ever had it awarded once is more than suspicious .
Taking it around the world argument doesn't wash either , this will be the second time the US have had it , the last in only 1994 , Mexico have had it three times since 1970 .
Brazil twice , Germany twice , Italy and France twice .
More than suspicious .
What years has Mexico hosted it? I know my memory might be going but I can only remember them hosting it twice. I seem to have lost one.
I think I can answer that, Glyn. I might be wrong, but I think Tyke might be including the next one, which is being shared between the USA, Canada, and Mexico.
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tyke1962, that is more like the truth, a referee who misses three big calls all game changing, the foul on Saka, the first call for a penalty on Kane, and he didn't give the one on Mount, causing an unnecessary delay and French antics tells me.
1) he is totally inept, or,
2) he is cheating.
I can't believe we get the hand of god, the disallowed goal v Germany and yesterdays performance by being inept when they get to that level, and so regular in competitions run by FIFA, who have history with the FA. so think they are a big part in collusion,
I think they cheat and are told to favour certain teams,
One big question, who thinks Messi and Neymar would have been awarded a penalty for the Kane and Bellingham fouls in the box? nobody even looking at the second one and the first a nailed on one.
You could also add the two Sol Campbell disallowed goals in extra time against Argentina in 98 and Portugal in 2004 for good measure .
We all know the shenanigans regarding hosting a World Cup but none the less the fact that this country has only ever had it awarded once is more than suspicious .
Taking it around the world argument doesn't wash either , this will be the second time the US have had it , the last in only 1994 , Mexico have had it three times since 1970 .
Brazil twice , Germany twice , Italy and France twice .
More than suspicious .
What years has Mexico hosted it? I know my memory might be going but I can only remember them hosting it twice. I seem to have lost one.
70 & 86, and they’re joint hosts in 2026. If you’re going to be pedantic you could say he should have said “by 2026 they will have had it 3 times since 1970”.
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End of the day we have a good young side that will get better. Stick with GS imo he done the best in tournaments than any other manager since Sir BR.
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Some of the worlds best have missed pens, the pressure in those situations is something that the average bloke can’t imagine.
Totally agree, mate. The defeat wasn't down to him. They were better than us, that's all.
Anyway, the Rovers won, so it's been a good day as far as I'm concerned.
Anyone watching that game, and coming out of it thinking France were the better side need help.
England were by far the better side and got robbed by a few terrible decisions and a terrible missed pen.
Need help? F*ck me, talk about an hysterical overreaction to someone's post. I didn't use the same OTT semantics as you, by suggesting that France were BY FAR the better side, I simply said they were IMO the better team on the day.
In any case, you need to rethink your words if you're really saying that a team is "by far" the better team, despite not scoring a single goal in open play, against a team that scores two.
Are you saying you’ve never experienced a side being the better team but losing before?
France weren’t better than us last night, we were very good from the minute they scored until the end
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .
Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .
Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .
Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .
Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.
We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.
We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.
Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.
There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .
Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .
Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.
We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.
We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.
Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.
There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).
In the last 3 tournaments we’ve beaten sides that over the years we would never have beaten.
Croatia, Germany for example
The big difference is that in recent tournaments we’ve beaten the sides we should be beating, whereas in the past we’ve fallen to these sides frequently
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We need to remember just how far behind the other big European nations English football was.
After English football was kicked out of European competition we really struggled. The game was being left behind in everything. Coaching, tactics, professional standards everything. I'd say until the last 10 years or so we've been catching up.
For a lot of my time watching England our standards haven't been high enough.
I feel that has changed recently and England is now producing sides that can and do compete.
Looking back at historic results doesn't help much. There were reasons England wasn't competing.
Now though, we are progressing through tournaments further consistently.
The problem we face now is the quality of opposition is improving across a broad base. There are far fewer easy fixtures.
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Exactly this.
Southgate has transformed the national team, he took over after we’d just been knocked out of a major tournament by Iceland. The previous World Cup we didn’t get out the group.
Now look at us, people are too quick to forget where we’ve come from
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What did VAR get wrong?
foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box
-
It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
-
We'll take over Germany fans wise. Cheap and easy to get to.
Let's hope are games are in the north of America for the world cup. Maybe common sense that middle of the day games get played in Mexico and southern states of America.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .
Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .
Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.
We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.
We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.
Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.
There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).
In the last 3 tournaments we’ve beaten sides that over the years we would never have beaten.
Croatia, Germany for example
The big difference is that in recent tournaments we’ve beaten the sides we should be beating, whereas in the past we’ve fallen to these sides frequently
I'll repeat. Just as in every tournament over the previous 56 years, in these past 3, we've been eliminated as soon as we came up against a real contender.
You are seriously not going to claim that beating the very worst German side since WWII is a significant achievement that bucks that trend? Really?
I'm bang in agreement that this is probably the best England side since 1966 (the 1982 side with a fit Keegan and Brooking would have pushed it close, but no others). But the fact remains that there's still another improvement necessary to make this a side of winners.
For the record, for the first time in my life I do actually thing this side has the potential to make that step and be a top 4 global side for the rest of this decade. But it's not, quite, there yet. Griezmann and Giroud showed that nous that separates the talented from the hard-nosed winners. That is what this squad needs to mature into.
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I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it
Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .
No more than Anyone else
The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .
How many have we been in, in comparison to them
Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .
They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .
Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .
Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .
You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .
So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament
No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .
In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .
Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .
I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .
It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .
Far from unreasonable .
But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.
In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case
The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .
We missed three in that shoot out .
Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .
Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .
History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .
Chris Waddle esque .
I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .
More importantly I wish we could solve it .
If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .
What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .
The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .
What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .
Why can't our footballers ?
They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.
Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .
Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .
Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.
We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.
We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.
Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.
There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).
In the last 3 tournaments we’ve beaten sides that over the years we would never have beaten.
Croatia, Germany for example
The big difference is that in recent tournaments we’ve beaten the sides we should be beating, whereas in the past we’ve fallen to these sides frequently
I'll repeat. Just as in every tournament over the previous 56 years, in these past 3, we've been eliminated as soon as we came up against a real contender.
You are seriously not going to claim that beating the very worst German side since WWII is a significant achievement that bucks that trend? Really?
I'm bang in agreement that this is probably the best England side since 1966 (the 1982 side with a fit Keegan and Brooking would have pushed it close, but no others). But the fact remains that there's still another improvement necessary to make this a side of winners.
For the record, for the first time in my life I do actually thing this side has the potential to make that step and be a top 4 global side for the rest of this decade. But it's not, quite, there yet. Griezmann and Giroud showed that nous that separates the talented from the hard-nosed winners. That is what this squad needs to mature into.
That’s just what the negative folk do though isn’t it, we beat Germany and it’s because they weren’t very good, we also beat Croatia in the euros.
You can’t class them as a serious contender in one tournament but not the next, nevermind the fact they’ve reached another World Cup semi.
Teams get knocked out by sides they shouldn’t do all the time, England have developed into a side that doesn’t do that anymore
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
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Dickos.
1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.
2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)
3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.
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What did VAR get wrong?
foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box
There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal
-
What did VAR get wrong?
foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box
There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal
It wad about 20 seconds, and no England player touched the ball between the foul and France scoring, so not sure how there were several phases of play. I've definitely seen goals disallowed by VAR for very similar incidents in the build up.
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We lost to the holders of the World Cup, admittedly greatly weakened by injuries but they still found a way to win. We were serious contenders to win it and in the end didn’t take our chances.
The French will have loved seeing Rashford on the bench, the one player that could have given them major problems. With him in the side we would have been less predictable.
There has been major progress made over the last three tournaments.
We lost because of a lack of concentration defensively, a missed penalty and the belief of the current holders, that they would find a way to win.
It wasn’t Deschamps out thinking Southgate tactically, we were just not quite good enough.
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Couldn't agree more with most of that Sammy.
I would take issue with the Rashford point. Sako caused France no end of problems and if he had been a Brazilian or Argentinian playing like that, we'd be purring.
But, as you say, it wasn't quite enough. At the end of the day, England never once made a chance on a par with Griezmann finding space out wide and putting in an inch perfect cross for an old head like Giroud to latch onto.
Sometimes you have to accept the ability of the opposition. England played as well in a WC knockout match as they have done for half a century. But they need to up their game a notch further to turn that into winning.
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The England team in 1990 would have gone on to beat an average Argentina side in the final IF we had beaten Germany in the semifinal penalty shoot out, IMO.
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What did VAR get wrong?
foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box
There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal
It wad about 20 seconds, and no England player touched the ball between the foul and France scoring, so not sure how there were several phases of play. I've definitely seen goals disallowed by VAR for very similar incidents in the build up.
Yep you are correct over 20 secs not 40. Rice did make an attempt at a tackle can't blame VAR though all down to poor ref original decision, clear and obvious being the criteria for VAR to intervene
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Dickos.
1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.
2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)
3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.
It’s just not fathomable that you don’t have Germany as serious contenders in a euro competition.
Almost every tournament they’ve been in they’ve been written off beforehand and constantly they turn up for the major comps and surprise everyone.
Before we played that game everyone was writing us off said we would bottle it, we didn’t.
And because we didn’t Germany then became a dreadful team,
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We do know without question that England's 3rd goal in the 66 final should not have stood. Not even remotely up for discussion.
BST, So far as I am aware there has been no technology produced able to analyse the available footage that says indisputably that it should not have stood.
You are peddling your opinion and dressing it up as if it were fact.
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What did VAR get wrong?
foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box
There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal
that’s why I said it started outside the box which they can’t do anything but for me looked like it carried on into the box,as for the foul it doesn’t really matter how far they go back in the laws and we didn’t even regain the ball back in the time they broke up the field so I would also argue it could be classed as the same phase of play
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Lots of words but it still doesn't alter the fact we still lost.
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .
He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .
I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .
If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .
I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .
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Dickos.
1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.
2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)
3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.
It’s just not fathomable that you don’t have Germany as serious contenders in a euro competition.
Almost every tournament they’ve been in they’ve been written off beforehand and constantly they turn up for the major comps and surprise everyone.
Before we played that game everyone was writing us off said we would bottle it, we didn’t.
And because we didn’t Germany then became a dreadful team,
So you're sticking to this line that "They are Germany therefore they are good?" Despite all the evidence that the modern Germany is as fallible as anyone else?
Germany's performance in the last four major finals tournaments is:
P16 W6 D4 L6
That is bang average, and absolutely not the record of a team that you consistently expect to be serious contenders.
A serious contender is a Croatia, whose form over those 4 tournaments is:
P20 W8 D8 L4
Or France:
P23 W16 D5 L2
My point is that, since 1966, every single time England has come up against a side in good long term form in the KO stages, sides with a strong, established, successful generation of players knitted together as a national side, we have been eliminated. There's just no arguing against that.
And who is this "Everyone"? I certainly didn't expect England to bottle that match. I didn't write them off or say that Germany were a dreadful team because we beat them. I expected England to win the game because England were a much better side.
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Dickos.
1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.
2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)
3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.
It’s just not fathomable that you don’t have Germany as serious contenders in a euro competition.
Almost every tournament they’ve been in they’ve been written off beforehand and constantly they turn up for the major comps and surprise everyone.
Before we played that game everyone was writing us off said we would bottle it, we didn’t.
And because we didn’t Germany then became a dreadful team,
So you're sticking to this line that "They are Germany therefore they are good?" Despite all the evidence that the modern Germany is as fallible as anyone else?
Germany's performance in the last four major finals tournaments is:
P16 W6 D4 L6
That is bang average, and absolutely not the record of a team that you consistently expect to be serious contenders.
A serious contender is a Croatia, whose form over those 4 tournaments is:
P20 W8 D8 L4
Or France:
P23 W16 D5 L2
My point is that, since 1966, every single time England has come up against a side in good long term form in the KO stages, sides with a strong, established, successful generation of players knitted together as a national side, we have been eliminated. There's just no arguing against that.
And who is this "Everyone"? I certainly didn't expect England to bottle that match. I didn't write them off or say that Germany were a dreadful team because we beat them. I expected England to win the game because England were a much better side.
No what I’m saying is for years people were saying we could never beat a big nation in a knock out round. We beat one of the biggest nations there is and then all the negative Nigel’s come out and play it down.
It’s the same with people going on about how easy the routes have been in the last two tournaments, look at other nations and their route to the final, portugals in euro 2016 is breathtaking and even though their fixtures couldn’t have been any easier if they’d picked them themselves, they still didn’t win a match until the semi final against wales.
5 games without a win against very average teams, yet their fans don’t bang on about how easy the route was.
We got to a final and a semi, that’s all that should matter.
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .
He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .
I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .
If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .
I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .
I think your first post on the World Cup a few weeks ago was feck off southgate, and calling us a joke of a nation.
So yes I reckon your mind was made up, whatever happened in this tournament you were going to find something to moan about.
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End of the day we have a good young side that will get better. Stick with GS imo he done the best in tournaments than any other manager since Sir BR.
This was the narrative after 2018 yet here we are.
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End of the day we have a good young side that will get better. Stick with GS imo he done the best in tournaments than any other manager since Sir BR.
This was the narrative after 2018 yet here we are.
The squad in 2018 was a very very average squad.
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It took a bent ref to get us out of this one, not the first time either, hand of god anyone.
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If England were genuinely serious contenders for this World Cup, they should have breezed past USA. They didn’t. The warning signs were there.
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If England were genuinely serious contenders for this World Cup, they should have breezed past USA. They didn’t. The warning signs were there.
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Are Morocco then the only genuine contender? Given Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia, France lost to Tunisia and Croatia have needed 2 penalty shoot out wins after 2 group stage nil nils?
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If England were genuinely serious contenders for this World Cup, they should have breezed past USA. They didn’t. The warning signs were there.
Look at all the shock results in the group stage, drawing 0-0 with USA didn’t mean much.
We had the best record in the group stage of everyone in the competition
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If England were genuinely serious contenders for this World Cup, they should have breezed past USA. They didn’t. The warning signs were there.
In that case, you could also say if France were genuinely serious contenders for this world cup they should have breezed past England, they didn't.
Luck was on their side, along with the referee.
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .
He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .
I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .
If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .
I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .
I think your first post on the World Cup a few weeks ago was feck off southgate, and calling us a joke of a nation.
So yes I reckon your mind was made up, whatever happened in this tournament you were going to find something to moan about.
For all you know he might not even think he's good enough at this level himself as he contemplates his future .
If he thought he could take this group of players to victory in Germany they'd be nowt to
contemplate .
Winners back themselves .
Maybe you believe in him more than he does himself .
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I don't think it's luck as such, but we have to be more ruthless, both on the pitch from the sidelines.
I've just heard the pundits more or less say the same, except they said it's not down to Gareth to manage that on the pitch! What!!??
If Gareth and his assistants can't recognise key moments in games, like on Saturday when we started to let them off the hook, then who can? Get the messages on, make the subs if necessary. Prepare for those eventualities.
Don't just stand there, dither and hope!
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .
He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .
I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .
If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .
I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .
I think your first post on the World Cup a few weeks ago was feck off southgate, and calling us a joke of a nation.
So yes I reckon your mind was made up, whatever happened in this tournament you were going to find something to moan about.
For all you know he might not even think he's good enough at this level himself as he contemplates his future .
If he thought he could take this group of players to victory in Germany they'd be nowt to
contemplate .
Winners back themselves .
Maybe you believe in him more than he does himself .
I’m sure he knows he’s good enough, the contemplation will be can he be arsed to go through another 2 years of this, just for people to never acknowledge the job he’s done purely because they didn’t fancy him 6 years ago
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .
He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .
I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .
If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .
I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .
I think your first post on the World Cup a few weeks ago was feck off southgate, and calling us a joke of a nation.
So yes I reckon your mind was made up, whatever happened in this tournament you were going to find something to moan about.
For all you know he might not even think he's good enough at this level himself as he contemplates his future .
If he thought he could take this group of players to victory in Germany they'd be nowt to
contemplate .
Winners back themselves .
Maybe you believe in him more than he does himself .
I’m sure he knows he’s good enough, the contemplation will be can he be arsed to go through another 2 years of this, just for people to never acknowledge the job he’s done purely because they didn’t fancy him 6 years ago
I think you'll find I've acknowledged many times his strengths and the job he's done during his tenure .
The difference between myself and yourself is that I can see the flaws too and I can see them in the players who represent us as well as the good things .
Your unwilling or incapable of accepting any criticism because Southgate and his players don't lose to Iceland anymore and he's a nice guy .
Give me a complete A hole who beats France in the quarter final of the world cup any day of the week .
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We do know without question that England's 3rd goal in the 66 final should not have stood. Not even remotely up for discussion.
BST, So far as I am aware there has been no technology produced able to analyse the available footage that says indisputably that it should not have stood.
You are peddling your opinion and dressing it up as if it were fact.
It’s not the first time that statement has applied, on most things he’s a 99% right
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It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .
There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .
Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .
I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .
The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .
We virtually hosted the last Euros and we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .
We may have missed the boat in my opinion .
You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc
Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .
He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .
I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .
If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .
I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .
I think your first post on the World Cup a few weeks ago was feck off southgate, and calling us a joke of a nation.
So yes I reckon your mind was made up, whatever happened in this tournament you were going to find something to moan about.
For all you know he might not even think he's good enough at this level himself as he contemplates his future .
If he thought he could take this group of players to victory in Germany they'd be nowt to
contemplate .
Winners back themselves .
Maybe you believe in him more than he does himself .
I’m sure he knows he’s good enough, the contemplation will be can he be arsed to go through another 2 years of this, just for people to never acknowledge the job he’s done purely because they didn’t fancy him 6 years ago
I think you'll find I've acknowledged many times his strengths and the job he's done during his tenure .
The difference between myself and yourself is that I can see the flaws too and I can see them in the players who represent us as well as the good things .
Your unwilling or incapable of accepting any criticism because Southgate and his players don't lose to Iceland anymore and he's a nice guy .
Give me a complete A hole who beats France in the quarter final of the world cup any day of the week .
I’ve not seen you acknowledge him doing a good job,
The criticism is ridiculous in that game that’s why,
Maguire, Bellingham and rashford were all two inches away from certain goals, Kane missed a pen, should’ve had another pen and saka was fouled for their first.
We absolutely were the better side against the world champions, we lost because we were unlucky not because of the manager
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Anyone who is seriously saying that we are barely any different to any other England team since ‘66 is, in my opinion, just looking to antagonise. Southgate has done something that no other England manager has since I started watching in the late ‘70s: brought a squad together, galvanised the team and produced the best tournament football I’ve ever seen. The only thing that came close to what we have now was France ‘98, where we never even made the quarter finals. In Italia ‘90 we were pretty awful and very lucky to get to the semis. Euro ‘90 we should have lost to Spain. The Erikson to Capello years were the worst of all.
What we have enjoyed at the last three tournaments is incomparable. Southgate has been the right man at the right time and deserves massive praise and respect.
However, there is a reason he is considering his position, and I don’t think it just down to that awful night at Wolves.
I said pre-tournament that I believed it should probably be his finale, and I think it may well be. Having said that, now he has gone on record to say he is considering his mext move, I will be happy with whatever he chooses next. If he genuinely thinks he has another tournament in him to go that one step further, then he has my full support. If he steps down, then boy has he set up something special for the next manager (Eddie Howe for me).
Either way, thank you Gareth Southgate.
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No way Eddie Howe would take the job now. It’s either Potter if Chelsea sack him soon or Rodgers walking out on mid-table Leicester City.
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For me if he does leave it needs to be another Englishman, so that rules out Rodgers.
I think Howe could take it, his job is very precarious a few defeats there and he will be immediately under pressure.
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Rodgers is northern Irish dickos? So good enough for me??
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Eddie Howe has never played international football. He has never managed or played in European competition nor has he won anything of substance as a top flight manager.
What is it exactly from this CV that people feel qualifies him to manage England?
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since when has being a great player been a prerequisite for being a great manager
Bobby Charlton No
Bobby Styles No
Gary Neville No
Paul Scholes No
Alan Shearer No
Edgar Davids No
Great Managers who never played or didn’t play top level
Carlos Alberto Parreira
Gerrard Houllier
Roy Hodgson
Avram Grant
Andre V Boas
Brian Kerr
Jose Mourhino
Arsenal Wenger
Rafa Benitez
Brendan Rodger’s
The argument about experience making quality is a non starter
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I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
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Thete is a reason why more English players don't play abroad
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If England were genuinely serious contenders for this World Cup, they should have breezed past USA. They didn’t. The warning signs were there.
In that case, you could also say if France were genuinely serious contenders for this world cup they should have breezed past England, they didn't.
Luck was on their side, along with the referee.
Same goes with Argentina. Lost to Saudi Arabia on the opening game, but a few performances that owed more to spirit than being a great team, plus a few refereeing decisions in their favour, they're now in the final.
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I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
I wouldn’t be so sure that Howe woukdnt take it. Whoever has the job next has an unbelievable chance to make history and win a few major tournaments.
The squad is good enough now for that
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If it won us a major tournament nobody would care where the manager was from.
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Howe has an unbelievable chance to play fantasy football in the petro-dollar plaything of Arabian Royal families that the PL has become.
Why would he give that up to take a pay cut for the regular press-led shitting on his head that he'd get as England manager?
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Howe has an unbelievable chance to play fantasy football in the petro-dollar plaything of Arabian Royal families that the PL has become.
Why would he give that up to take a pay cut for the regular press-led shitting on his head that he'd get as England manager?
Pretty sure the England manager job is higher paid than everyone other than Klopp and Guardiola.
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I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
I wouldn’t be so sure that Howe woukdnt take it. Whoever has the job next has an unbelievable chance to make history and win a few major tournaments.
The squad is good enough now for that
Well clearly it isn't is it or we'd be playing Morocco tonight and not the French .
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Howe has an unbelievable chance to play fantasy football in the petro-dollar plaything of Arabian Royal families that the PL has become.
Why would he give that up to take a pay cut for the regular press-led shitting on his head that he'd get as England manager?
Never known an England manager get an easier ride than Southgate .
Compared to what Robson and Taylor had to put up with the jobs a breeze .
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I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
I don’t think the manager has to be English, but they probably have to have long experience playing, coaching or managing in the English game. Aside from Bellingham, every one of our squad plays in England. We are a uniquely domestically-orientated squad. One of the strengths of the current squad is a unity around a set of values and expectations, which an overseas manager not used to the English game might not know or appreciate. Rodgers is no different to Howe in this regard, or indeed Potter. He’d never do it and is gone way past best but someone like Wenger would have worked, spending so long in the English game, for instance.
I wouldn’t be so sure that Howe woukdnt take it. Whoever has the job next has an unbelievable chance to make history and win a few major tournaments.
The squad is good enough now for that
Well clearly it isn't is it or we'd be playing Morocco tonight and not the French .
Don’t be ridiculous
If only football was as simplistic as that,
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Howe has an unbelievable chance to play fantasy football in the petro-dollar plaything of Arabian Royal families that the PL has become.
Why would he give that up to take a pay cut for the regular press-led shitting on his head that he'd get as England manager?
Never known an England manager get an easier ride than Southgate .
Compared to what Robson and Taylor had to put up with the jobs a breeze .
That’s because he’s been doing a good job,
Italia 90 was robsons highlight and we crawled through that tournament struggling in every game.
Taylor was atrocious
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This France side are not a great side.
So frustrating. They were there to be had.
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This France side are not a great side.
So frustrating. They were there to be had.
They beat England because they have the best player in the tournament.
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So who gave France the hardest game. England or Morocco?
If Morocco had taken their chances tonight the French would be in the 3rd/4th place game and not the final.
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So who gave France the hardest game. England or Morocco?
If Morocco had taken their chances tonight the French would be in the 3rd/4th place game and not the final.
If England had taken their chances they’d have been playing Morocco tonight
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So who gave France the hardest game. England or Morocco?
If Morocco had taken their chances tonight the French would be in the 3rd/4th place game and not the final.
It felt like many matches under O'Driscoll in the Championship. Us dominating possession and giving the opponents a lesson. Then losing because they had 2-3 £3-4m players with that bit of individual quality.
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Morocco were absolutely superb. What a performance. They did though not score against France while we did, and missed (not saved) a penalty. There is a fundamental difference between those two games.
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Morocco were very good. It wouldn't have been an easy game at all like many predicted.
Argentina have gone from dire to probably favourites I would say just.
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This France side are not a great side.
So frustrating. They were there to be had.
They beat England because they have the best player in the tournament.
Most people will think you're referring to Mbappe there, BST. I know that you're not; you're referring to Griezmann, and I totally agree with you.
He's the one who makes France tick.
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This France side are not a great side.
So frustrating. They were there to be had.
They beat England because they have the best player in the tournament.
Most people will think you're referring to Mbappe there, BST. I know that you're not; you're referring to Griezmann, and I totally agree with you.
He's the one who makes France tick.
Man of the match by a mile.
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This France side are not a great side.
So frustrating. They were there to be had.
They beat England because they have the best player in the tournament.
Most people will think you're referring to Mbappe there, BST. I know that you're not; you're referring to Griezmann, and I totally agree with you.
He's the one who makes France tick.
Bang on. Messi and Mbappe get the attention with superlative attacking ability. But Griezmann has been head and shoulders the best complete player in this tournament.
If you're picking a Team if the Tournament, he has to be the first name on the sheet. A privilege to watch.
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You wouldn’t have put Griezmann in the top 10 players in the world before this, but he always turns it on at big tournaments.
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Morroco's version of FA has formally complained over 2 penalty decisions going against them.
So in atleast 2 matches back to back France have had the rub of the green on potential match defining moments.
Take off your specs, is this World cup corrupt?
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Is this World Cup corrupt?!
There will have been more brown envelopes slipped under tables than you’d find in a sorting office at Christmas!
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The best ever says Infantino, no brown envelopes just sackfulls!
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FA have just confirmed Southgate is staying until after Euro 24.
I’m happy with that.
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France again, shite.
Golden opportunity missed by us.
Saying that don’t think we’d have beaten these argies who are superb.
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It looks like a next goal winner situation.
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And it’s looking like France! Unbelievable
Not sure Argies can recover from this.
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Yep, after doing next to nothing for 70 minutes, MBappe is suddenly causing havoc.
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FA have just confirmed Southgate is staying until after Euro 24.
I’m happy with that.
Great news and common sense.
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Best game ever today? As a top level spectacle.
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Proper edge of your seat stuff, a fantastic game, especially after the first French goal.
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The best game (performance would be the 1970 Brazilian World Cup win) of a World Cup Final I’ve witnessed in my lifetime (thus far!).
Mbappé was very, very good.
Messi was & still is ‘the class act’.
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Our kid called it right today. Football has changed beyond all recognition.
30 years ago, sides were scared to lose in matches like this.
15 years ago, Spain brought in that stultifying possession game that destroyed matches as a spectacle.
Now, the best teams go at it hammer and tongs and it is glorious to watch. That final minute of extra time was emblematic of the age - both sides carving out chances to win within 30 seconds of each other.
I feel privileged to have watched a game that people will still be talking about at the end of the century.
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Another thing.
I stand by what I said about Griezmann having been the player of the tournament up to the final. But the difference between being excellent and being a historical giant of the game is what happens at the very pinnacle.
Griezmann was anonymous today. Messi and Mbappe (when he clicked) were giants. That second goal of Mbappe's must be the greatest goal of any World Cup final, given the stakes. What a strike!
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Incredible scenes in Buenos Aires and Rosario following Argentina's world cup victory .
Despite the rivalry you'd have to be a cold hearted man to begrudge a fanatical football nation a day like yesterday was for their nation .
https://youtu.be/FHLP9V7SE3I
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Billy the last minutes were error strewn poor finishing and defending that people got caught up in the moment.
The overall standard of the game was not that great, exciting yes, and well produced on TV.
Two great players took centre stage on the day, and it was an exciting spectacle, would either side be top four in the Premiership, I doubt it personally.
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Billy the last minutes were error strewn poor finishing and defending that people got caught up in the moment.
The overall standard of the game was not that great, exciting yes, and well produced on TV.
Two great players took centre stage on the day, and it was an exciting spectacle, would either side be top four in the Premiership, I doubt it personally.
For over an hour it wasn't a contest , the French were running through treacle and Argentina were dominant and affective without having to be great .
This may well be a left field view of the final but my personal plaudits for this world cup final are centred on the remarkable resilience of both team above everything else .
The French found a way to get back in to the game , the bench was used effectively with sheer will , determination and a winners mentality thrown in for good measure .
Argentina had the final won twice along the way but still kept together and dug in with that street fighting mentality they have in their DNA .
You looked in to their eyes and their body language in the penalty shootout and you could tell there was very little fear .
Martinez did what Argentina do , a complete shytehouse , the football equivalent of sledging an incoming test batsman , that's not against the rules either so let's not be hearing anything to the contrary especially with the stakes as high as they were .
When you haven't always got the most gifted of teams and Argentina haven't apart from you know who but you can still win and that's what I got out of yesterday's final .
That's what it takes to lift that thing .
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The Champions League will be interesting, a big chunk of the players in the game available to PSG including the two main characters who are lauded and top of the pops at the moment.
It will be interesting to see if they can put a tin lid on it and cope with what lies in waiting for them, the look on Messi's face last night was in complete contrast to the little boy lost look at Anfield a couple of seasons ago.
That game that night when Liverpool overturned a heavy away defeat in the first leg destroyed Barcelona as a club and Messi as a club player for them that has took him until now to get over and has only gained solace from playing with a successful Argentinian team, being a big disappointment at PSG.
His return to the competition and club will be interesting to watch.
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The last 45 of the 120 was a contest until then it was the most one sided final ever and in danger of being a really poor final.
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Interesting point raised the morning Qatar got the final they wanted with Messi and MBappe playing for PSG owned by Qataris. Wonder if some of the reffing and VAR decisions aided that happening?
I only speak of this as someone who only partially watched one game because my Missus wanted to and that was not the Final it was our lot v France
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I don’t see how it can be the greatest game /final ever. It was fairly average for 79 minutes. Then the French woke up and had a go. Yes then from that point it was incredible.
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The first 91 minutes of our match at Griffin Park in 2013 was dull as dishwater. Doesn't stop it being arguably THE greatest match in our history.
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In amongst all the corruption & back handers that have without doubt happened & continues to with the Qatar authorities hardly falling over themselves to recompense families of foreign labourers who died in their thousands due to non existent health & safety measures while constructing the stadiums & some who have not yet been paid despite all the money sloshing around this World Cup, I have found a breath of fresh air, a gesture that shows there is still some humanity to be found in the fog of opulence.
Hakim Ziyech who played in the tournament for the fantastic Moroccan team that gave us so much pleasure as they were truly outstanding ‘minnows’, has donated his World Cup bonuses of $325,000 to the poor of Morocco.
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I see we won the Fair Play Award at the world cup .
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I see we won the Fair Play Award at the world cup .
As good as that is, it’s probably a reason why we didn’t win the thing
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Even though almost every pundit and reporter have condemned or criticised the WC being held in Qatar it's taken Gary Neville to make any members of this Govt to speak out......... but only to condemn him for speaking out on tv and compare what happened in Qatar with migrant workers to the situation over here regarding decent wages and working conditions
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I see we won the Fair Play Award at the world cup .
As good as that is, it’s probably a reason why we didn’t win the thing
Similar to kids at sports day in school when they don't win their event .
They give em a lollipop instead .
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The teams that were bravest in possession of the football had the most success at this World Cup.
Which was great to see.
That's why the final, once France woke up, was so thoroughly entertaining with both teams positively looking to win.
The quality wasn't high however IMO, with no stand out side, none of the teams were a patch on the French (or Belgians) 4 years ago or the German team 8 years ago.
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When I was growing up I wanted to be Peter Kitchen scoring the winner for Rovers. In four years time I want to be commentating on an England World Cup win like this guy.
'Argentina campeon del mundo'
https://twitter.com/sportingnews/status/1604564450282831872
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I don’t see how it can be the greatest game /final ever. It was fairly average for 79 minutes. Then the French woke up and had a go. Yes then from that point it was incredible.
I said the same thing mate.
It wasn’t particularly good until MBappe decided to have a go at changing what seemed like an easy Argentina victory.
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I don’t see how it can be the greatest game /final ever. It was fairly average for 79 minutes. Then the French woke up and had a go. Yes then from that point it was incredible.
I said the same thing mate.
It wasn’t particularly good until MBappe decided to have a go at changing what seemed like an easy Argentina victory.
Well yes, but it took two substitutions by France on 40 mins to shake things up a bit.
I don't think there's any way Gareth would have made those subs, preferring to wait for half time at least.
Those subs would have had an effect on the half time team talks in both dressing rooms.
It's been a feature through the tournament that many teams utilise the subs far better and plan ahead much better than we who seem to do it on the hoof.
Not making a sub until too late has been a feature of Gareths management in three key games now so he must address this if we are to challenge in the final stages again.
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The first 91 minutes of our match at Griffin Park in 2013 was dull as dishwater. Doesn't stop it being arguably THE greatest match in our history.
Yes, arguably as you say. It depends how you’re measuring it.
Subjectively, based mainly on the result from an English viewpoint, 1966 v W Germany is arguably England’s greatest game. Objectively (if that’s possible…) maybe it would be the 1996 4-1 v Netherlands or the 6-1 v Germany in 2001. I can’t think of many other contenders as until recently it’s mainly been painful watching England!
From a neutral’s viewpoint it might be some other England game which was a draw or narrow win for one side (e.g. Brazil 1970).
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I don’t see how it can be the greatest game /final ever. It was fairly average for 79 minutes. Then the French woke up and had a go. Yes then from that point it was incredible.
I said the same thing mate.
It wasn’t particularly good until MBappe decided to have a go at changing what seemed like an easy Argentina victory.
Well yes, but it took two substitutions by France on 40 mins to shake things up a bit.
I don't think there's any way Gareth would have made those subs, preferring to wait for half time at least.
Those subs would have had an effect on the half time team talks in both dressing rooms.
It's been a feature through the tournament that many teams utilise the subs far better and plan ahead much better than we who seem to do it on the hoof.
Not making a sub until too late has been a feature of Gareths management in three key games now so he must address this if we are to challenge in the final stages again.
To be fair Baz I can agree but our game against France the starting eleven was doing a good job no substitute required. When he did change my biggest dismay was bringing on Sterling and not Rashford. That for me as to change for me.
As for France then you can question why pick Dembele in the first place he’s had a poor World Cup and is our Sterling.
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Probably worth a thread in its own right but who genuinely believes Southgate will win us the 2024 Euros ?
Probably not a surprise to one or two on here but I dont .
We'll do ok but we will lose once we come up against someone equally ranked at the sharp end of the tournament .
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Probably worth a thread in its own right but who genuinely believes Southgate will win us the 2024 Euros ?
Probably not a surprise to one or two on here but I dont .
We'll do ok but we will lose once we come up against someone equally ranked at the sharp end of the tournament .
I am not sure we will, have we really got the best eleven in Europe plus squad. France got to the final and had players missing. So if we don’t win it then just can’t blame the manager.
Which managers do you see that can get more out of the squad. We haven’t had an English manager in charge of a premier league club that’s won the champions league. We have one at Chelsea but they were already in the Champions league when he got the job. Do you believe they have to be English or foreign. But let’s not forget we had the golden generation with different managers did they do better did they win a trophy.
England women won the Euros by selecting and getting the best international ladies manager out there. Yet the men according most pundits must have a English manager.
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Even though almost every pundit and reporter have condemned or criticised the WC being held in Qatar it's taken Gary Neville to make any members of this Govt to speak out......... but only to condemn him for speaking out on tv and compare what happened in Qatar with migrant workers to the situation over here regarding decent wages and working conditions
Thank you Raven.
Colin C what did I say previously about the UK and under payed and conditions you didn’t accept. Go ask the thousands of Filipino OFW medical staff keeping the NHS running how much they earn!! And what conditions do they live in ( how many to a room is a hint)
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Probably worth a thread in its own right but who genuinely believes Southgate will win us the 2024 Euros ?
Probably not a surprise to one or two on here but I dont .
We'll do ok but we will lose once we come up against someone equally ranked at the sharp end of the tournament .
Nobody thought we’d reach the final in the last one but we were a penalty shootout away from winning it.
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Probably worth a thread in its own right but who genuinely believes Southgate will win us the 2024 Euros ?
Probably not a surprise to one or two on here but I dont .
We'll do ok but we will lose once we come up against someone equally ranked at the sharp end of the tournament .
Nobody thought we’d reach the final in the last one but we were a penalty shootout away from winning it.
In the past two WC's we have lost to an eventual finalist. In the Euros we beat one of those finalists to reach the final.
Yet the best chance we have of winning the next WC will be a manager who has never managed a team outside the UK never mind winning anything meaningful?
Southgate is clearly the best person to manage England - until someone else gains the experience to show they can do the job any better.