Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Ldr on December 12, 2022, 02:32:32 pm
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63941509
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63941509
Nar surely not , not the sacred cow that is the EU .
Fake news .
:ermm: :ermm: :ermm:
-
Well, well, well. Totally reinforces my view that they're all the same.
My old grandad always used to say that every man has his price. Or woman in this case.
Please don't tell Sydney this. He'll be suicidal.
-
Per the BBC: -
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the accusations were "very serious" and called for greater democratic accountability the creation of a new EU ethics body [of wholly unelected Eurocrats].
-
#Is there a fire drill?
Is there a fire drill?
Is there a fire drill?
Is there a fire drill? #
-
705 MEPs 4 are facing corruption charges, not good but over the life of the European Parliament I wonder what the % is? not exactly a breakdown in society aye?
-
705 MEPs 4 are facing corruption charges, not good but over the life of the European Parliament I wonder what the % is? not exactly a breakdown in society aye?
Precisely.
The culprits will, I'm sure, have suitable criminal action taken against them.
Whereas Lady Mone is going to face...what exactly? And not a dicky bird of complaint about that from our Tory fan boys in here.
Almost as if criminality and immorality doesn't matter if it's on the side you support...
-
705 MEPs 4 are facing corruption charges, not good but over the life of the European Parliament I wonder what the % is? not exactly a breakdown in society aye?
Precisely.
The culprits will, I'm sure, have suitable criminal action taken against them.
Whereas Lady Mone is going to face...what exactly? And not a dicky bird of complaint about that from our Tory fan boys in here.
Almost as if criminality and immorality doesn't matter if it's on the side you support...
I'm curious, BST. Who are the Tory fan boys in here? I doubt that there's many in here that have ever voted Tory in their lives.
-
So, 1 MEP in 176.25 MEPs is facing corruption charges. That's like 37 unruly fans being chucked out of the ECO-Power stadium during an averagely attended league game this season.
I bet if that were to happen it'd be called a breakdown in society on this very forum!
-
And?
-
And, I wonder what % of the public would want the club shutting down?
-
what?
-
4 is the 'Tip of The Iceberg'
-
4 is the 'Tip of The Iceberg'
It ruins a good whiskey
-
Sadly this scandal almost certainly goes way beyond just the 4 MEPs arrested so far.
12 others have had their apartments searched and are so under suspicion with more searches expected.
The IT-resources of 10 EU parliament employees have been "frozen" to prevent the disappearance of data necessary for the investigation.
This looks like a widespread corruption scandal involving several officials (including at least one of a very high profile) taking monies from a foreign government who were seeking to influence law making decisions.
This, potentially, looks very serious indeed.
This is the danger of having law making institutions so designed that lobbyists have much more influence than ordinary folk at the ballot box.
-
Democracy alive and well at the highest level of the EU.
-
Sadly this scandal almost certainly goes way beyond just the 4 MEPs arrested so far.
12 others have had their apartments searched and are so under suspicion with more searches expected.
The IT-resources of 10 EU parliament employees have been "frozen" to prevent the disappearance of data necessary for the investigation.
This looks like a widespread corruption scandal involving several officials (including at least one of a very high profile) taking monies from a foreign government who were seeking to influence law making decisions.
This, potentially, looks very serious indeed.
This is the danger of having law making institutions so designed that lobbyists have much more influence than ordinary folk at the ballot box.
Wouldn't it be nice to have the tory party held to such scrutiny
-
Democracy alive and well at the highest level of the EU.
Vote them out!
.....Hang on a minute........
-
And the headlines from the OPs link suggest that it will be taken seriously, no?
''EU corruption scandal puts democracy under attack - European Parliament head''
''The president of the European Parliament has warned that "European democracy is under attack", following allegations that Qatar bribed EU officials to win influence.
Roberta Metsola said that "open, free, democratic societies are under attack"
So it won't be up to an internal inquiry or at the whim of a corrupt PM, nor has anyone resigned from their post and not been replaced that could hold anyone to account aye?
-
I don't think this lot have learnt any lessons from history. Lobbyists have always had an open season with the MEP's.
https://www.brusselstimes.com/32741/5-of-the-largest-eu-scandals-in-our-history
We know this is not exclusive to the EU and our own parliament has many episodes to account for but when you look at how open the MEP's are to this type of corruption and after the previous scandal when the whole of the Santer commission had to resign due to corruption. It just reinforces the belief that this whole talking shop is set up and ripe to be exploited by its own members and their greed.
They are serving themselves before an notion of serving their constituents.
-
And the headlines from the OPs link suggest that it will be taken seriously, no?
''EU corruption scandal puts democracy under attack - European Parliament head''
''The president of the European Parliament has warned that "European democracy is under attack", following allegations that Qatar bribed EU officials to win influence.
Roberta Metsola said that "open, free, democratic societies are under attack"
So it won't be up to an internal inquiry or at the whim of a corrupt PM, nor has anyone resigned from their post and not been replaced that could hold anyone to account aye?
Of course they're saying this is being taken seriously. Belgian police have arrested 4 MEPs having found 600k of Euro notes in their possession, have searched 12 other apartments, ordered 10 EU employees have their computers frozen to prevent any attempted cover up and found a link between the cash and a foreign government.
They have no choice but to take it seriously
There is really no equivalence to anything recently in the UK Parliament.
-
I don't think this lot have learnt any lessons from history. Lobbyists have always had an open season with the MEP's.
https://www.brusselstimes.com/32741/5-of-the-largest-eu-scandals-in-our-history
We know this is not exclusive to the EU and our own parliament has many episodes to account for but when you look at how open the MEP's are to this type of corruption and after the previous scandal when the whole of the Santer commission had to resign due to corruption. It just reinforces the belief that this whole talking shop is set up and ripe to be exploited by its own members and their greed.
They are serving themselves before an notion of serving their constituents.
Excellently put.
-
Yes there are problems, but the systems in place in the European Parliament appear to be more resilient in monitoring and acting with examples of corruption and goes no way into any implication that any baby need to be thrown out with the bath water.
Unlike the UK government that rules by whim and favour, there needs to be a constitution and fixed regime controls in place to which the government of the day is answerable, not in place to overrule democracy but to enforce and act upon corrupt practices. AN overarching ICAC would do it.
-
And the headlines from the OPs link suggest that it will be taken seriously, no?
''EU corruption scandal puts democracy under attack - European Parliament head''
''The president of the European Parliament has warned that "European democracy is under attack", following allegations that Qatar bribed EU officials to win influence.
Roberta Metsola said that "open, free, democratic societies are under attack"
So it won't be up to an internal inquiry or at the whim of a corrupt PM, nor has anyone resigned from their post and not been replaced that could hold anyone to account aye?
Of course they're saying this is being taken seriously. Belgian police have arrested 4 MEPs having found 600k of Euro notes in their possession, have searched 12 other apartments, ordered 10 EU employees have their computers frozen to prevent any attempted cover up and found a link between the cash and a foreign government.
They have no choice but to take it seriously
There is really no equivalence to anything recently in the UK Parliament.
No. We're much more sophisticated.
In Britain, the way it works is that a member of the Lords lobbies Government friends for a contract for a company that has zero prior experience in the field.
The company gets a £250m contract.
The company supplies a sub-standard service. But still gets paid the full whack.
Turns out the company is owned by the original lobbyist's husband.
And then the company pays £29m into her offshore account.
As you say. Branton, the EU issue, shocking and wrong as it is (and it is, I would flay the f**kers alive who have done this) really doesn't compare to what goes on in the British Government.
-
Yes there are problems, but the systems in place in the European Parliament appear to be more resilient in monitoring and acting with examples of corruption and goes no way into any implication that any baby need to be thrown out with the bath water.
Unlike the UK government that rules by whim and favour, there needs to be a constitution and fixed regime controls in place to which the government of the day is answerable, not in place to overrule democracy but to enforce and act upon corrupt practices. AN overarching ICAC would do it.
Firstly it's an investigation by the Belgian police that has led to these arrests and the uncovering of this potentially very serious corruption scandal - not an EU internal investigation. Which undermines your point about the EU being resilient in monitoring/acting on corruption.
Secondly when was the last time a number of UK MPs, of any party, were alleged en masse to be involved in an equivalent co-ordinated corruption offence whereby they were allegedly taking monies from a foreign government to influence law making??
You're drawing false equivalences and thereby constructing false comparatives to defend a) what appears to be far more than a 'problem' and b) an institution you appear to be ideologically bound to.
-
No. We're much more sophisticated.
In Britain, the way it works is that a member of the Lords lobbies Government friends for a contract for a company that has zero prior experience in the field.
The company gets a £250m contract.
The company supplies a sub-standard service. But still gets paid the full whack.
Turns out the company is owned by the original lobbyist's husband.
And then the company pays £29m into her offshore account.
As you say. Branton, the EU issue, shocking and wrong as it is (and it is, I would flay the f**kers alive who have done this) really doesn't compare to what goes on in the British Government.
I would have the "Lady" in question flayed alive also. What she has done appears to be reprehensible.
Are you really drawing an equivalence to one rogue Parliamentarian (disgustingly as it was) taking advantage of her position and a crisis to feather her own nest to seemingly/potentially dozens of officials coordinating together to influence laws at the behest of a foreign government in return for cash. Really? Really?? Honestly really???!
PS I'm just as much against the democratically unaccountable House of Lords (see my comments/approval for Labour's latest policy on replacing it) as I am against the democratically unaccountable EU. As I've shown in numerous posts I'm nothing but consistent in this area.
-
Yes there are problems, but the systems in place in the European Parliament appear to be more resilient in monitoring and acting with examples of corruption and goes no way into any implication that any baby need to be thrown out with the bath water.
Unlike the UK government that rules by whim and favour, there needs to be a constitution and fixed regime controls in place to which the government of the day is answerable, not in place to overrule democracy but to enforce and act upon corrupt practices. AN overarching ICAC would do it.
Firstly it's an investigation by the Belgian police that has led to these arrests and the uncovering of this potentially very serious corruption scandal - not an EU internal investigation. Which undermines your point about the EU being resilient in monitoring/acting on corruption.
Secondly when was the last time a number of UK MPs, of any party, were alleged en masse to be involved in an equivalent co-ordinated corruption offence whereby they were allegedly taking monies from a foreign government to influence law making??
You're drawing false equivalences and thereby constructing false comparatives to defend a) what appears to be far more than a 'problem' and b) an institution you appear to be ideologically bound to.
I accept the correction regarding the investigation regarding the Belgian police, and yes it is still an investigation no guilty verdicts as yet Branton.
What happened to the 'en masse' that resigned in the end?
-
Yes there are problems, but the systems in place in the European Parliament appear to be more resilient in monitoring and acting with examples of corruption and goes no way into any implication that any baby need to be thrown out with the bath water.
Unlike the UK government that rules by whim and favour, there needs to be a constitution and fixed regime controls in place to which the government of the day is answerable, not in place to overrule democracy but to enforce and act upon corrupt practices. AN overarching ICAC would do it.
Firstly it's an investigation by the Belgian police that has led to these arrests and the uncovering of this potentially very serious corruption scandal - not an EU internal investigation. Which undermines your point about the EU being resilient in monitoring/acting on corruption.
Secondly when was the last time a number of UK MPs, of any party, were alleged en masse to be involved in an equivalent co-ordinated corruption offence whereby they were allegedly taking monies from a foreign government to influence law making??
You're drawing false equivalences and thereby constructing false comparatives to defend a) what appears to be far more than a 'problem' and b) an institution you appear to be ideologically bound to.
I would not be surprised to eventually find out that this Belgian police investigation has materialised due to the "cooperation of other MEP's"
I wonder if they felt "left out and overlooked" if this is the case what's the betting the German one comes out with something along the lines of the commission worked together to root out the corruption.
-
Branton just to put things straight, I am not ideologically bound to anything ........ being permanent that is, I prefer to accept change ............ for the better, I vote and support those that would give voice to the masses the majority but do also accept that perfection is not going to happen anytime soon anywhere. I support the framework of the EU and its evolution into what it is at present, but you could point out many things I guess in isolation that given an option I would not support.
If that means I am ideologically bound to the concept of the EU in your eyes then I have to accept that too. If we are evolving into a discussion about the pros and cons of the EU I am still awaiting your answer on those bits of the EU that were forced upon the UK that undermine UK sovereignty.
-
No. We're much more sophisticated.
In Britain, the way it works is that a member of the Lords lobbies Government friends for a contract for a company that has zero prior experience in the field.
The company gets a £250m contract.
The company supplies a sub-standard service. But still gets paid the full whack.
Turns out the company is owned by the original lobbyist's husband.
And then the company pays £29m into her offshore account.
As you say. Branton, the EU issue, shocking and wrong as it is (and it is, I would flay the f**kers alive who have done this) really doesn't compare to what goes on in the British Government.
I would have the "Lady" in question flayed alive also. What she has done appears to be reprehensible.
Are you really drawing an equivalence to one rogue Parliamentarian (disgustingly as it was) taking advantage of her position and a crisis to feather her own nest to seemingly/potentially dozens of officials coordinating together to influence laws at the behest of a foreign government in return for cash. Really? Really?? Honestly really???!
PS I'm just as much against the democratically unaccountable House of Lords (see my comments/approval for Labour's latest policy on replacing it) as I am against the democratically unaccountable EU. As I've shown in numerous posts I'm nothing but consistent in this area.
BR one rogue?, it appears from reports that she is the tip of the iceberg
-
So, just so let me get this straight...
The EU detects corruption and acts swiftly to arrest those involved.
Absolutely the right thing to do and they should be applauded for it.
The UK Government reeks of corruption right now, and has done for some years. So many examples, yet how many have been immediately suspended? How many arrested or held to account?
Not sure what the OP was trying to prove other than the EU is less tolerant of corruption and acts swiftly when it sees it, as opposed to the UK which is currently riddled with it and does nothing, usually because the Government tries to block any accountability.
Remind me, what happened to that Russian report?
-
No. We're much more sophisticated.
In Britain, the way it works is that a member of the Lords lobbies Government friends for a contract for a company that has zero prior experience in the field.
The company gets a £250m contract.
The company supplies a sub-standard service. But still gets paid the full whack.
Turns out the company is owned by the original lobbyist's husband.
And then the company pays £29m into her offshore account.
As you say. Branton, the EU issue, shocking and wrong as it is (and it is, I would flay the f**kers alive who have done this) really doesn't compare to what goes on in the British Government.
I would have the "Lady" in question flayed alive also. What she has done appears to be reprehensible.
Are you really drawing an equivalence to one rogue Parliamentarian (disgustingly as it was) taking advantage of her position and a crisis to feather her own nest to seemingly/potentially dozens of officials coordinating together to influence laws at the behest of a foreign government in return for cash. Really? Really?? Honestly really???!
PS I'm just as much against the democratically unaccountable House of Lords (see my comments/approval for Labour's latest policy on replacing it) as I am against the democratically unaccountable EU. As I've shown in numerous posts I'm nothing but consistent in this area.
If you really want to go down this route...
1) Mone's corruption is, from the information we have so far, on a scale 30 times bigger than that if the MEPs.
2) As others have said, Mone's behaviour appears to be just one of a large number of similar infractions.
3) If you're talking of influence by foreign Governments, how about the cost relationship between the biggest funder of the Leave campaign and the Russian Ambassador?
4) Then there's the fact that the PM who took us into Brexit steadfastly refused to investigate prima facie evidence of Russian meddling in our elections, including the Brexit Referendum? A refusal that the cross party Parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee found scarcely believable.
5) Or that the same politician, after attending a NATO meeting about the Salisbury attack, immediately took a flight to spend the weekend with an ex-KGB colonel, without his security detail.
6) Or the fact that our governing party has hawked itself out to Russian oligarchs for the past decade?
I shouldn't have to repeat this, but I will. The behaviour of the MEPs is appalling and would seem to be criminal. I hope and expect that they face the full consequences. But there IS a criminal investigation going on into that. There have been precisely zero consequences for any of the issues I've just listed. Claiming that the EU somehow has a problem on a vastly different scale to any we have seems odd in that context.
-
Just imagine UK police searching the addresses of several MPs, finding £500k in cash which they can trace to a foreign government and enough evidence to arrest 4 MPs, including a cabinet minister, on grounds of corruption and money-laundering and to insist that the computers of several Parliamentary staff are frozen to prevent data disappearing.
Imagine therefore the potential uncovering of a wide conspiracy within the UK Parliament to influence laws in the favour of a foreign power in return for financial reward.
That would be one of the biggest political scandals ever to hit the UK.
The equivalent actually has happened in the EU and yet the Europhiles on here seek to belittle this and deflect any criticism by claiming variously: -
- Not many people involved
- It's being investigated so that makes it ok
- It was uncovered by the EU so the EU should be applauded - when in fact the investigation was run by Belgian police
- One UK parliamentarian acting potentially criminally in her own interest is somehow worse
- The UK Parliament is rife with corruption based seemingly on intuition - and certainly not any evidence of police investigations let alone arrests
- The UK is worse based on some conspiracy theories again which the UK police haven't deemed credible enough to be followed up on
Unless you're claiming the UK police are in on these UK political scandals and are implicated in covering them up through inaction?
-
What Europhiles see is a bigger pie, a better economy, freedom from war between members, freedom of movement, countries working together for common goals, shared scientific development, agreed air safety regulations, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
You still haven't addressed the sovereignty issue Branton, one if your main planks for leaving.
-
Sydney. Can you hypnotise a water buffalo or if not, have you ever witnessed anyone who could?
-
Sydney. Can you hypnotise a water buffalo or if not, have you ever witnessed anyone who could?
everyone can it's taught at birth and an entry requirement
-
Just imagine UK police searching the addresses of several MPs, finding £500k in cash which they can trace to a foreign government and enough evidence to arrest 4 MPs, including a cabinet minister, on grounds of corruption and money-laundering and to insist that the computers of several Parliamentary staff are frozen to prevent data disappearing.
Imagine therefore the potential uncovering of a wide conspiracy within the UK Parliament to influence laws in the favour of a foreign power in return for financial reward.
That would be one of the biggest political scandals ever to hit the UK.
The equivalent actually has happened in the EU and yet the Europhiles on here seek to belittle this and deflect any criticism by claiming variously: -
- Not many people involved
- It's being investigated so that makes it ok
- It was uncovered by the EU so the EU should be applauded - when in fact the investigation was run by Belgian police
- One UK parliamentarian acting potentially criminally in her own interest is somehow worse
- The UK Parliament is rife with corruption based seemingly on intuition - and certainly not any evidence of police investigations let alone arrests
- The UK is worse based on some conspiracy theories again which the UK police haven't deemed credible enough to be followed up on
Unless you're claiming the UK police are in on these UK political scandals and are implicated in covering them up through inaction?
Ever stopped to wonder why the MET initially refused to investigate the Downing St Parties? And when they finally acceded due to immense public pressure they chose which of those Parties to investigate and which not?
No, didn't think so.
Meanwhile, where's the Russian Interference report?
-
Sydney. Can you hypnotise a water buffalo or if not, have you ever witnessed anyone who could?
everyone can it's taught at birth and an entry requirement
Wow.
-
Let's bring an independent arbiter into the debate: Transparency International www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021/
They rank the UK the 11th least corrupt country in the world. Only 6 EU member states are ranked as less corrupt; 21 EU countries are ranked as more corrupt than the UK.
Investigating their rankings there is a clear correlation between democratic strength and lower corruption.
No wonder then that a major corruption scandal has been uncovered again within the anti-democratic EU institutions.
Here's what Transparency International say about the EU in light of this latest scandal: -
"This is not an isolated incident. Over many decades, the [EU] Parliament has allowed a culture of impunity to develop, with a combination of lax financial rules and controls and a complete lack of independent (or indeed any) ethics oversight"
-
I have just had a quick glance through this thread and am wondering how an article about corrupt MEPs has morphed into criticism of the UK government.
-
What could be more undemocratic than the HoL Branton?
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63941509
EU arrest & investigate corrupt MEP's.
The Tory Party attempt to change the rules to get them off.
Owen Patterson? Boris Johnson, Lady Mone? Geoffrey Cox? Lord Lebadev - Tell me again, who is it exactly you are accusing of corruption?
-
''MEPs have voted - by 625 to one - to strip Ms Kaili of her role as one of its 14 vice-presidents''
-
At least this one helped get Brexit done....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63958964
Wonder what he got out of it?
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63941509
EU arrest & investigate corrupt MEP's.
That's the 3rd time it's been claimed this corruption was uncovered by the EU on this thread.
And for the 3rd time this is not the case.
The investigation was carried out by Belgian police. The arrests were made by Belgian police. Following investigations by Belgian journalists. Not the EU.
I don't need to accuse anyone of corruption seeing as EU officials have been arrested on grounds of corruption having had 1.5m Euros in cash discovered in their properties.
Where are the police investigations and arrests in the UK?
Again false comparatives based on largely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
Read my last post from Transparancy International on the EU Parliament, consider their opinion on the UK v EU member states re corruption, then maybe admit that the EU has a serious issue with corruption as has clearly been exposed this week and stop trying to belittle this problem or use deflection tactics re the UK
-
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-mps-defend-accepting-260000-in-qatari-gifts-before-world-cup/
-
BBC News - Earl of Shrewsbury faces suspension from Lords over lobbying claims
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63998059
The Earl of Shrewsbury could be in a bit of trouble.
-
https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-mep-marc-tarabella-charged-in-qatargate-probe/
Looks like they are still to get to the bottom of this and the net is cast wider, how many more will be exposed for their corrupt behaviour.