Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Wade Falana on December 16, 2022, 12:12:50 pm
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Joined Worksop on loan, fantastic signing for them
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Appalling decision. He’d be a better player than RSW even with his boots tied together.
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Seen a mixed reaction early on…. Let’s try put some perspective on this…
If we aim to get promoted this season, we won’t be doing it with a 18y old playing CB, he’s a great talent but at this age let him get out and get some good experience.
The debate if he’s better than RSW is another one all together but RSW now has over 150 first team appearances under his belt.
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Apparently he cannot yet play "the style" of football being implemented by DS
That worries me a lot - because the kid can tackle, head the ball properly (unlike RSW) has an eye for goal and above all else a fighting heart.
Crackers.
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It's the level of football he's gone to which is appalling. They're at a lower level than Frickley where he first went
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Appalling decision. He’d be a better player than RSW even with his boots tied together.
I still don't think he's quite ready for league 2, regular football will do him good! As for RSW, he's not great but not as bad as people say.
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Worksop? Who the f**k has sanctioned that. Should be Conference North at the very least
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How’s he going to improve his passing and ball distribution playing at the level of Worksop. We know he can tackle and head a ball. Do they play three at the back will he play right or left of the middle centre half. Because that’s the only way he will improve for our system. I hope Copps as looked at that before this move was sanctioned
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I’m glad he’s going out on loan, as he’s behind all the current crop of CBs in the reckoning. He at least being out on loan will get some game time as opposed to sitting on the bench doing nowt. When he does come back he will or should be match fit.
COYR
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The situation with this lad takes me right back to when Kitch first hit the scene, McMenemy for his sins made the lad ( and us !! ) wait and wait for him to get a decent run, I'm sorry but RSW's recent and regular gaffes, at the age of 24 with 150 games under his belt and an academy upbringing at Man Utd tell anyone who understands the game that he will never, ever, cut it at League Level.Any opposing team will play on him for sure.
Faulkener should be first pick at the back, give him the game time and experience playing alongside Tom and in 2 years we would be selling him for a Million with add ons.
Surely that's what Rovers should be about imho
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We're all aware that they are the professionals and we the just supporters but this does sound very tone deaf to me.
We all know what we've seen with our own eyes and to me and many others he looks like he should of been given more game time to develop here at home, if he's good enough he's old enough,
When you think of some of the abject defending displays we have seen this season would it have been any worse with Faulkner in the team gaining experience, i doubt it very much.
This just looks like a bone headed policy decision, when reality is staring them in the face, disappointing.
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My gut reaction was that he should be playing at a higher level but having given it some though, Faulkner needs to be starting games week in, week out at the moment and with Worksop being well clear at the top of their division (they've only lost one in 18 so far) it could do him good to get into that consistent winning habit. He definitely needs to play against a better standard but he's gone there for a month so there's no reason why he can't use it to build his strength and fitness in what'll be a physical league then get a move to a higher level for the remainder of the season.
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Hahahahaha such a joke club we are.
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RSW should have gone on loan it’s more his level. Piss poor decision
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Let’s hope he starts every game unless someone’s injured will they change a team that’s won 16 on the trot. Tavonga Kuleya whose loan as been extended is on the bench but comes on from there.
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A months loan over the busy Christmas period is absolutely nuts.
It’s a bad enough decision anyway but at this time of year as well I just do not understand.
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He still trains with us during the week doesn’t he? So this is largely about him getting a weekly competitive game somewhere, as Schofield isn’t selecting him for the XI at the moment. Seems reasonable.
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Shades of Wellens and Bogle?
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The benefit is he will get game time, be somewhere that rate him , and shows the lack of connections the club has to get players out at a decent level, or is it that other clubs don't fancy our players, some would hardly grace the level he has gone to.
As for not being able to play the type of football that DS wants to play, I have witnessed Anderson and Long been torn a new backside by a sixteen year old from Barnsley, RSW commit error after error when its debatable his head or legs are connected to his body, all of them chase shadows at Carlisle and Barrow, while the lad has come on as sub, been shoved up front and saved games for us, was MOM at Northampton a top three side, shell a goal in from the edge of the box at Hartlepool with a shot that makes other attempts at goal this season look pathetic and doubtful a lot of our team are capable of getting their balance and feet together to do what he did, and in fairness have one dicky game, in which he won headers and tackles when others on the same pitch capitulated to Kings Lynn and offered absolutely nothing Zilch.
A game that has been held over his head ever since, and he has not played a minute of competitive football since.
It has been the best example this club have done of losing value of an asset I have witnessed for many a year, and all self inflicted, while those that have come into the team have been led a merry dance and have dished up some of the worst defensive performances over the last five years against very average sides.
You reap what you sow, it is start all over again and value chucked away for no gain playing wise in fact a lower standard, and the value of a promising player undercut again.
My message to DS is, he is the best defender in our own box we have at the club, and one of the best attackers from dead ball situations in the oppositions box, and a threat.
If you don't want players to be like that you have the others to fart about ten yards from their own goal.
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…and do Worksop play the kind of football Schofield favours?
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FSLR, debatable, they have won a lot of games.
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Some ridiculous swipes at the club over this. Yes, he has good potential but from what I've seen and heard, we're in danger of building him up too much too soon. I don't think he's ready for 90 mins of week in, week out league One football. He's put in a couple of really good cameos, a couple of full games and one where he suffered quite a bit, although he wasn't the only one.
Just my opinion but some folk are too harsh with Williams and putting unrealistic expectations on Faulkner. Somewhere in the middle would be more reasonable.
I doubt Faulkner would get that much game time here so better he gets minutes out on loan. The merit of the loan to Worksop is another issue.
When folk criticise the club, it's DS and Copps making these decisions, no doubt taking a number of factors into account, and I'm yet to be convinced any of us have better credentials to make this sort of decision.
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DBR, I am yet to be convinced too, I hope they can.
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It's the level of football he's gone to which is appalling. They're at a lower level than Frickley where he first went
Worksop are above Frickley in the pyramid.
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Maybe no one else was interested in taking him on loan. I think we over estimate how good our youngsters are. Kuleya couldn't get a game at FCUM and now doesn't start for Worksop.
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Faulkner not Faulkener
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I agree with Selby when you play a three you need progressive Right and Left centre halves I’m not sure we have those players. Long good passer of the ball short and Long but as no pace to go forward and get back. Olowu Iam not sure yet he has pace and his background from. Arsenal you would expect so. Anderson when available should play the center of the three but is he a good passer I’m not sure. Williams yes has some pace but his defensive qualities on the Right and passing are debatable agin I think he more suitable for the centre. Therefore we are missing a right sided defender which I think Faulkner could fill and with good coaching from Schofield should be able to do it.
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Maybe no one else was interested in taking him on loan. I think we over estimate how good our youngsters are. Kuleya couldn't get a game at FCUM and now doesn't start for Worksop.
Worksop must like Kuleya because they've extended his loan for the full season. Impact player, just like he was in the early part of the season with us.
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Some ridiculous swipes at the club over this. Yes, he has good potential but from what I've seen and heard, we're in danger of building him up too much too soon. I don't think he's ready for 90 mins of week in, week out league One football. He's put in a couple of really good cameos, a couple of full games and one where he suffered quite a bit, although he wasn't the only one.
Just my opinion but some folk are too harsh with Williams and putting unrealistic expectations on Faulkner. Somewhere in the middle would be more reasonable.
I doubt Faulkner would get that much game time here so better he gets minutes out on loan. The merit of the loan to Worksop is another issue.
When folk criticise the club, it's DS and Copps making these decisions, no doubt taking a number of factors into account, and I'm yet to be convinced any of us have better credentials to make this sort of decision.
We don't need him to play league one football, league two with us would be fine.
I think the forum members are right to air their opinions on this matter, its what its for. I'm sure no one on here thinks their opinion will make DS change his mind.
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Thinking about this, could this be a precursor to getting a better centre half in the transfer window?
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We’ve got Anderson, Williams, Long, Faulkner and Olowu on the books as centre backs, and seemingly Rowe and Knoyle as back three centre backs. Now, collectively the defensive unit is dross but we have a lot of individuals there who aside from Faulkner will be on decent money for us. We need to dramatically improve the defensive performance but is it too much to ask to get a tune out of this million man defensive army, before we spend yet more money?
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Well, we've tried all season and are yet to hit on a successful formula.
If we can offload some then we may be able to bring in better quality.
Remember this was the defence that more or less that had us relegated last season, this season has not seen any improvements that we can build a successful promotional challenge with.
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Anderson, Williams and Olowu all out of contract in the summer. Long and Faulkner summer 2024.
Forgot Ollie Younger as well, who is a centre back firstly. Out of contract this summer.
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In an article from free press Bobby is going to cover an injury to one of their centre halves so should play games.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-james-coppinger-explains-decision-to-loan-bobby-faulkner-to-worksop-town-3957481
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In an article from free press Bobby is going to cover an injury to one of their centre halves so should play games.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-james-coppinger-explains-decision-to-loan-bobby-faulkner-to-worksop-town-3957481
simply cannot believe what I am reading. Love Copps but this must be the biggest load of guff to come out his mouth. He hasn’t the experience of this “playing style”? Yet possibly the worst footballer in the football league, RSW, has?? Ridiculous. We really are a disaster right now.
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I bet his agent is loving it, properly annoying the lad, if what is said on here is true and that he "can't play as the manager wants, the agent is rubbing his hands and seeing £ signs as he touts him around other clubs to get a nice fat fee for him. If that is the case it is another fail for the club. Good luck to the lad.
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In an article from free press Bobby is going to cover an injury to one of their centre halves so should play games.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-james-coppinger-explains-decision-to-loan-bobby-faulkner-to-worksop-town-3957481
simply cannot believe what I am reading. Love Copps but this must be the biggest load of guff to come out his mouth. He hasn’t the experience of this “playing style”? Yet possibly the worst footballer in the football league, RSW, has?? Ridiculous. We really are a disaster right now.
So let me get this right - you're simple and can't believe what you are reading... However, you think that Copps is talking 'guff' and the manager doesn't have an understanding off what the lad needs best. Added to that we are a 'disaster' sitting 2 points off the play-offs........ OK fella :thumbsup:
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Yep
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Is this the role of the first team transition coach?
Loan young lads out to Worksop?
Yet we have the young lad Woltman who gets chance after chance in our first team because he's from Liverpool?
I really am at a loss on how we treat our youth players who progress (or don't mire accurately). This reasoning of Faulkner not being able to play Danny's style of football is horrendous reasoning.
The fans see he's a decent player with potential. We accept he'll have a bad game and isn't the finished article - but he's 100% worthy of a place in our first team squad (and in my view should be in the starting XI).
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Did not Woltman get his chance in the first team after publicly complaining about not getting starts? No doubt Liverpool will be grateful. No one on here had felt strongly enough to make a case for him, yet most of those who have seen Faulkner see not only potential, but useful current value.
We may be urged to accept the judgment of the coach supported by the HoFO, but in doing so it does seem that effectiveness is lower in the priorities than the coach’s required playing style and systems.
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I remember hearing they had a Mr Moneybags now in charge of the former "debt ridden club" and they were going down the "ambition route"
I've cracked it why he's gone there ... we've been bartering with Worksop-
obviously part of the loan deal is
that the Worksop Chairmans company becomes our new match day caterer and provide "the match catering"
food for thought this one
https://www.windsorfoodservice.co.uk/about-windsor
could say its a win win situation
following on from that...
Has anyone at the club suggested that his company get bit of advertising exposure at the ECO ? Could at least sponsor the lads shirt or something -- if we still do that sort of thing
Selby has he passed his driving test yet ? ( it took Bogle a long time to pass and leave Grimsby for Wigan) that might restrict him -- At his age it's a good idea to stay at home and focus on football
we don't want him to go down " the road of Mandalay Manderville" he did nothing when on loan at mighty Whitby Town - think they sent him back .....
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Woltman looks like someone you want in your 5 a side team not in a league 2 11 a side misters league.
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Is this the role of the first team transition coach?
Loan young lads out to Worksop?
Yet we have the young lad Woltman who gets chance after chance in our first team because he's from Liverpool?
I really am at a loss on how we treat our youth players who progress (or don't mire accurately). This reasoning of Faulkner not being able to play Danny's style of football is horrendous reasoning.
The fans see he's a decent player with potential. We accept he'll have a bad game and isn't the finished article - but he's 100% worthy of a place in our first team squad (and in my view should be in the starting XI).
Don't understand this at all. Of all the defenders we have, he should be the first name on the team sheet, whatever style we play. Huge talent.
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In front of Olowu or Anderson? He is a great prospect but there needs to more to his game than just being a strong tackler/header
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He's not better than Anderson and Owulu currently. He should be playing in at least the conference north on loan minimum
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While he probably shouldn't be infront of Anderson, I'd debate on olowu, he is definitely good enough on the bench coming on around the 60th minute to add energy to the defence when needed
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Let's go FIFA/Football manager style and look at his attributes vs RSW, Long, Oluwu, Anderson and Rowe & Knoyle as CBs only.
Or even as a scout.
How would you rate Faulkner?
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Bit concerning for Bobby, could this be the beginning of the end for Bobby at the rovers, and him being the next Harry Middleton or Liam Wakefield.
The manager doesn't fancy him, and potentially could move him on to free up space in the club.
He will be training still with the rovers so hopefully can continue to improve and make it impossible for him to be pushed out.
Hopefully I'm wrong about him being on the way out? But can't help but think it's what's happening.
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He needs to develop somewhere and he can do this whilst playing elsewhere. He's got loads of potential to be very good. But he's nowhere near the finished article or league 2 ready in my view as he isn't that great with the ball at his feet.
That williams isn't a great player imo doesn't mean this is a bad move, it isn't.
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Bit concerning for Bobby, could this be the beginning of the end for Bobby at the rovers, and him being the next Harry Middleton or Liam Wakefield.
The manager doesn't fancy him, and potentially could move him on to free up space in the club.
He will be training still with the rovers so hopefully can continue to improve and make it impossible for him to be pushed out.
Hopefully I'm wrong about him being on the way out? But can't help but think it's what's happening.
Very good observation and comparison to Middleton and Wakefield. Both highly promising but just couldn't quite make it when their chances came.
Wakefield just not quite sturdy enough to be a regular centre half and not quite up to the full back role when tested there.
Middleton got regular chances and displayed many positive signs with passing and tackling but, seemed to have a blind spot in being caught in possession too often and not quite having enough pace or speed of thought to get out of trouble in tight situations.
I'm sure we hope Faulkner can make the grade but he has a long way to go in accumulating minutes and experience in a very unforgiving environment. Fans enthusiasm and patience wears thin very quickly when mistakes cost goals.
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Let's put yesterday in context, he is just 18yrs old has had two training sessions with a team that is top of their division at a decent standard and was going into the game with expectation on his shoulders of recently being seen playing well at division 2 level, so all eyes on him and expectancy.
And he rocked up and breezed through the game playing very well in front of three scouts from other clubs that will be sniffing a cheap option now our own publicity machine at the cub has undermined his value in the transfer market.
The Stockton manager even came the old nutshell give him some stick he is a young lad in the second half, and he withstood a physical going over both on and off the ball, more chance of seeing Putin at a peace rally buddy.
As for technical ability he did everything right, tackling and heading is a given with him, and yesterday he mixed it up just right, getting rid of the ball when under pressure going long and played the ball out to feet when it was the right time to do it, and also handled the inevitable media attention a performance like that attracts even at that level very well.
So he will have impressed the teams that were bothered to monitor his game, no doubt looking for a cheap young player.
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You're falling into the Mandeville trap again Selby, hope this time the lad does come good
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You're falling into the Mandeville trap again Selby, hope this time the lad does come good
He won't come good with us as we won't give him a chance. Name the last youth player we gave propert support, guidance and opportunities to.
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RR, Mandeville isn't doing bad for himself and would breeze into this technical lot we have got now, but would probably think we were not good enough for him now.
There is every chance he is one of the main players in a better side than we currently have, and he certainly had more skill as an eighteen year old who liked a drink than some of this lot currently here if this seasons showings are the best they can produce.
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Let's look at this way RE: Faulkner.
Apparently he needs improving technically as a defender (our youth team coach) played 100s of games in the top flight won the FA Cup, league Cup a couple of times and a UEFA Cup winners Cup, he was also an international player. Surely he could either coach him to improve at this level or have the connections to send him elsewhere to further improve his technical abilites; as playing for Worksop ain't gonna cut it.
How many lads have broken through the Worksop team to establish themselves in league football? (genuine question and not a knock on Worksop Town).
For those with a deep connection to the club please speak up. We shouldn't accept these types of moves over and over again.
Expect incoming "hot prospects" to the club from "premier league clubs" Woltman for example isn't and never will be premier league quality yet here we are developing him for MK Dons or Cheltenham in the future.
What is the point to our youth system at all?
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RR, Mandeville isn't doing bad for himself and would breeze into this technical lot we have got now, but would probably think we were not good enough for him now.
There is every chance he is one of the main players in a better side than we currently have, and he certainly had more skill as an eighteen year old who liked a drink than some of this lot currently here if this seasons showings are the best they can produce.
Mandeville’ not played in the football league for 3 and a half years. Just because we’ve got some poor players doesn’t mean his career to date has been a success.
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Probanly not, it also dosen't mean that there are not better players in the National league than we have currently got, in my opinion there are better at that level, and at levels below that, and Mandeville is one of them.
For instance the most skilled and talented player we have had playing for us this current season is a player coach at a lower league side, and he was past his best and not fit.
Doesn't bode well for the rest does it.
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People are aware Faulkner has literally only just turned 18? Worksop might be low down in the pyramid but they are destroying that league, surely going to breed confidence winning week after week. I don't buy this talk that he's being managed out, he's 18 years old for god's sake.
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If Alick had been around in the modern day I wonder whether he would have been farmed out as a 17 year old.
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People are aware Faulkner has literally only just turned 18? Worksop might be low down in the pyramid but they are destroying that league, surely going to breed confidence winning week after week. I don't buy this talk that he's being managed out, he's 18 years old for god's sake.
i think any other time we would all be in agreement with what you say. But I rekon why everyone is so wound up about it, myself included, is that anyone with 2 eyes can see that there’s a player getting picked week in week out that’s not fit to lace his boots!
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Probanly not, it also dosen't mean that there are not better players in the National league than we have currently got, in my opinion there are better at that level, and at levels below that, and Mandeville is one of them.
For instance the most skilled and talented player we have had playing for us this current season is a player coach at a lower league side, and he was past his best and not fit.
Doesn't bode well for the rest does it.
there must be dozens and dozens of players in that league that are better than what we have. If you cast your minds back, how many of the squad that got us promoted to L2 from the conference would get into this team of ours? For me, Warrington, Marples, Ryan, Foster, Green, Dolan, Barne’s and Blundell would walk straight in. I’d even take dangerous Dave Morley ahead of RSW.
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I'd take Morely ahead of RSW now
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Dozens and dozens of players in the National League better than players at a team 10th in league 2? Course there are...
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In front of Olowu or Anderson? He is a great prospect but there needs to more to his game than just being a strong tackler/header
In my opinion yes, when he plays he's a winner, & would just get better & better with a run in the team.
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I’d say that Schofield is a man so focussed on his principles as a coach that he puts these ahead of everything else. It is him who is in need of managing and Copps should be the man to do it.
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I think Worksop are at home again tomorrow night, against Hemsworth Miners Welfare. Kick off 7.45pm.
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I think Worksop are at home again tomorrow night, against Hemsworth Miners Welfare. Kick off 7.45pm.
It's actually the second round of our old friend the Sheffield & Hallamshire Senior Cup tonight.
I almost forgot that after two wins in the final in 2000/2001 season and 2001/2 season both against Emley, we lost the 2002/2003 final against Worksop Town. I suspect this may have been not long either before or after Stoke, so we didn't field a first team.
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Both Faulkner and Kuleya start for Worksop tonight.
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In front of Olowu or Anderson? He is a great prospect but there needs to more to his game than just being a strong tackler/header
In my opinion yes, when he plays he's a winner, & would just get better & better with a run in the team.
For me I really can't see how you would put him ahead of Olowu and Anderson, it's great to see a Donny lad in the side but it think some get carried away.
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Kuleya scored after 11 minutes, Faulkner was subbed after 52 minutes, with the score 2-2. Lost 3-2 in the end after being 2-0 up, Kuleya played the whole match
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Worksop reported Faulkner being subbed due to receiving a blow to the head after a sliding challenge.
Bit of a shit result for Worksop given they are the cup holders and were playing at home.
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Faulkener should be first pick at the back, give him the game time and experience playing alongside Tom and in 2 years we would be selling him for a Million with add ons.
Agree with this, but I'd be inclined to give him an additional 3 years. This lad will be worth Millions in the not too distant future.
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People are aware Faulkner has literally only just turned 18? Worksop might be low down in the pyramid but they are destroying that league, surely going to breed confidence winning week after week. I don't buy this talk that he's being managed out, he's 18 years old for god's sake.
Many years ago Ray Wilkins was a similar age when he became captain of Chelsea because he was that good. Not saying Faulkner should be captain but he should play most games because he is good enough now. I agree with Les when he said he should be first defender on team sheet. Yes that does include ahead of Anderson and Olowu, although they should be who he is alongside.
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What age was Ian Snodin when he was “first pick” on the team sheet ?
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Think Snods was younger and about a third the size.
In lieu of anyone better coming in during the window i would of played Faulkner alongside Anderson and Olowu in a back three.