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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: mushRTID on December 26, 2022, 06:28:10 pm

Title: Dead wood (again)
Post by: mushRTID on December 26, 2022, 06:28:10 pm
I know it’s not football manager and not that easy. But we aren’t going anywhere until we get rid of Taylor, Anderson, Clayton, Williams, Mitchell, Griffiths, Agard.

Another clear out needed and we start again.

What a shit show.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: andyst79 on December 26, 2022, 06:31:36 pm
What's Mitchell done wrong?
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Scooter on December 26, 2022, 06:31:57 pm
Agreed. But you are missing a few names from that list
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: mushRTID on December 26, 2022, 06:32:54 pm
What's Mitchell done wrong?

Is this a serious question?

Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: andyst79 on December 26, 2022, 06:37:08 pm
Yes
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: scawsby steve on December 26, 2022, 06:37:34 pm
What's Mitchell done wrong?

Is this a serious question?

Which of the 3 goals was he responsible for today, Mush?
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: mushRTID on December 26, 2022, 06:40:14 pm
Probably none of them.
I didn’t blame him for any goals.

How about how slow he is throwing the ball out when people do actually run for him.

Or his atrocious kicking, every f**king match.

He might not directly be at fault for individual goals, but he has a serious negative impact on how we play.

I am sure Schofield will release him whenever his contract is up. He’s absolutely useless.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: andyst79 on December 26, 2022, 06:43:12 pm
He's improved this season, takes crosses , good shot stoping and his distribution is getting better. He obviously did what he was instructed to do today. I'd be looking at replacing our 2 centre mids before anything else
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: monkeytennis on December 26, 2022, 06:43:52 pm
I’d keep Mitchell I think he’s alright. The slowing tactics I think must be an instruction as I can’t see any earthly reason to do it otherwise.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Reg of the Rovers on December 26, 2022, 06:48:38 pm
Moving Clayton and Taylor on has to be an absolute priority - Taylor is poor when he's on the pitch, usually injured and earns good money which we could use to bring in much much better. Clayton sets the pace on the pitch, I think he's the reason we're so slow - we're definitely slower when he plays - when Biggins dropped deep and had Molyneux and Hurst to play up to we did look slightly brighter (or slightly less terrible).
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Chris Black come back on December 26, 2022, 07:08:13 pm
Mitchell is a decent keeper for us. I’d definitely keep him.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Reg of the Rovers on December 26, 2022, 07:20:10 pm
Mitchell is a decent keeper for us. I’d definitely keep him.
I agree, he's not perfect and distribution is a weakness, but actually he's pretty decent overall. Not an area I'd be focussing on in the window given we have much bigger fish to fry in order to get a tune out of this lot - decent centre half, decent ball playing midfielder with legs, decent partner for George first on the shopping list!
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: selby on December 26, 2022, 10:29:57 pm
  Long was the player and the area that Tranmere rightly attacked from the start of the game, sorry but not for me at all, too slow and gets caught out of position and no pace to recover situations, and nearly always passes the ball back to the keeper which pens us back in our own half.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Canadian Rover on December 26, 2022, 10:38:57 pm
  nearly always passes the ball back to the keeper which pens us back in our own half.

Likely as per instructed same as Anderson
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Colin C No.3 on December 26, 2022, 11:05:00 pm
Mitchell (whether by instructions or design) & Clayton are a match made in heaven…slow, slow..slow, slow, slow.

Anderson made it a ‘complete trio’ with his back & forth to Mitchell. Jeez, I was ‘calling’ their movements after 20 minutes of watching it time, after time, after time.

Keeper to Centre Back to Defensive (?) Midfielder all looking for the ‘safe option’.

When Clayton did look forward his pass was either cut out (because of age of thought & skill) or his pass was over hit or to a player tightly marked. He’s not savvy enough or ‘committed’ enough at this level.

Hurst is our only ‘saving grace’ in that midfield imo, when TR is not fit.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: roverstillidie91 on December 26, 2022, 11:14:32 pm
You live and die by your recruitment, unfortunately it has been poor ever since DM came in where loans papered over the cracks
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: i_ateallthepies on December 27, 2022, 09:29:08 am
Probably none of them.
I didn’t blame him for any goals.

How about how slow he is throwing the ball out when people do actually run for him.

Or his atrocious kicking, every f**king match.

He might not directly be at fault for individual goals, but he has a serious negative impact on how we play.

I am sure Schofield will release him whenever his contract is up. He’s absolutely useless.


Perhaps those who think Mitchel is ok are actually convinced that (given our last two season's transfer dealings) if we were to get a new keeper he'd be even worse.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: mushRTID on December 27, 2022, 09:30:40 am
Probably none of them.
I didn’t blame him for any goals.

How about how slow he is throwing the ball out when people do actually run for him.

Or his atrocious kicking, every f**king match.

He might not directly be at fault for individual goals, but he has a serious negative impact on how we play.

I am sure Schofield will release him whenever his contract is up. He’s absolutely useless.


Perhaps those who think Mitchel is ok are actually convinced that (given our last two season's transfer dealings) if we were to get a new keeper he'd be even worse.

Possibly you are right.

I do agree that he’s the best of a bad bunch of recent signings. Says it all.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Barmby Rover on December 27, 2022, 09:56:14 am
I know it’s not football manager and not that easy. But we aren’t going anywhere until we get rid of Taylor, Anderson, Clayton, Williams, Mitchell, Griffiths, Agard.

Another clear out needed and we start again.

What a shit show.





Get rid? You seriously think the board will fund buying that many payers in? And of a better quality?  Good joke.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: steve@dcfd on December 27, 2022, 10:41:42 am
I know it’s not football manager and not that easy. But we aren’t going anywhere until we get rid of Taylor, Anderson, Clayton, Williams, Mitchell, Griffiths, Agard.

Another clear out needed and we start again.

What a shit show.

All these players are contracted until the end of the season at least. So nothing can happen until then. We have then got to bring in players that are better, when did we last do that unless they were good loan players. So let’s get real. With the finances we have and crowd’s getting smaller the loss of good ambition at the club which good players will come.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: selby on December 27, 2022, 10:45:44 am
  Steve, it all comes down to where you look, there are good players out there.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Padge_DRFC on December 27, 2022, 11:01:45 am
How long are we stuck with Taylor. Still enquiries need doing into that 3 year deal.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: steve@dcfd on December 27, 2022, 12:44:21 pm
  Steve, it all comes down to where you look, there are good players out there.
Well I wonder if Copps and Schofield are looking in the same place
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: danumdon on December 27, 2022, 01:08:57 pm
Defence and midfield for me. If you have two immobile central midfielders who don't show for the ball then its a big ask to expect your central defenders who by default are not going to be the best ball players in the squad to distribute successfully. When the same central midfield are also slow and weak to close down attacking players and thus give the defence little protection then you have chaos.

Our wide and attacking midfield are not proactive enough to move and try to force the opposition defence to lose their defending shape, they also need to show more for the ball and mix up when to play the ball early or take a man on. they also need to run beyond the centre forward to create more options when we attack, especially if we have attacking full backs who in effect become the wide player, so they need to be able to get up and down and deliver a decent ball into the box for the forwards and late arrive attacking midfield.

We could well do with a proper ball winning defence midfielder who can play alongside Biggins, Moly needs to up his workrate and take his man on more frequently, Hurst if DS does not fancy him needs a loan and a replacement. We need alternative strikers to Miller, Agard and Griffiths are not the answer.

Goalkeeper  is ok for now, he's upped his game and his command of his box is far better than when he first came into the side, kicking and distribution needs addressing, how much is instructed who knows but its helpful if the players are moving and looking for space as soon as he has the ball in hand, how often does that happen?

Defence is another major issue, in a DS system fullbacks need to be very mobile and also attacking minded but its always a balancing act, if they are good in this regard they are usually weak in defence, only works if the central defenders are big, mobile and can defend so we have a major issue here.

Very difficult to correct in two never mind one window so it will be interesting to what materialises .

We need key rebuilding, are the club up for this?
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Cramby10 on December 27, 2022, 01:20:23 pm
If we need all these specialised players to play this over complicated dross that DS is foisting on us then why give him the job in the first place? If we haven’t the funds, then give someone the job that can get the best out of what we have.
Football isn’t that difficult yet we make it so.
Just watching a top of the table clash Orient v Stevenage. Stevenage aren’t any great shakes but they make it work and are 2nd in the league.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: steve@dcfd on December 27, 2022, 01:29:40 pm
Cramby neither side have static midfield players with no pace. Both the sides have players working and have the skills in front of their defenders .

We don’t have that and then we blame the defenders who yes have their faults but there are more faults infront of them.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: LincolnDonny on December 27, 2022, 07:58:19 pm
You can tell many have lowered their expectations on our players

Mitchell is not on parr with many goalkeepers we have had with the odd 1 or 2 exceptions
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Arsenal Of The North on December 27, 2022, 08:43:05 pm
We need to get rid of half a dozen players. Andrews was a waste of time, clearly something gone off behind the scenes with that one, replacing someone of Tomlins ability an essential.

But for me it’s important to sign players who know how to get out of this league, we need players who can handle physical league 2 football
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: swintonrover on December 28, 2022, 01:18:14 am
You can tell many have lowered their expectations on our players

Mitchell is not on parr with many goalkeepers we have had with the odd 1 or 2 exceptions


Since Sullivan (best keeper in our history), we've had
Gary Woods
Ross Turnbull
Stephen Bywater
Jed Steer (L)
Marko Marosi
Chris Neal (L)
Remi Matthews(L)
Sam Johnstone (L)
Thorsten Stuckmann
Ross Etheridge
Ian Lawlor
Louis Jones
Seny Dieng (L)
Joe Bursik (L)
Joe Lumley (L)
Ellery Balcombe (L)

Bar some outliers (Turnbull, Dieng and Johnstone, maybe Marosi) I'd prefer him over most.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: turnbull for england on December 28, 2022, 06:13:40 am
A brief cameo from an injured Chris Kirkland too, doesn't alter that I agree with your choices though
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Chris Black come back on December 28, 2022, 06:55:27 am
You can tell many have lowered their expectations on our players

Mitchell is not on parr with many goalkeepers we have had with the odd 1 or 2 exceptions


Since Sullivan (best keeper in our history), we've had
Gary Woods
Ross Turnbull
Stephen Bywater
Jed Steer (L)
Marko Marosi
Chris Neal (L)
Remi Matthews(L)
Sam Johnstone (L)
Thorsten Stuckmann
Ross Etheridge
Ian Lawlor
Louis Jones
Seny Dieng (L)
Joe Bursik (L)
Joe Lumley (L)
Ellery Balcombe (L)

Bar some outliers (Turnbull, Dieng and Johnstone, maybe Marosi) I'd prefer him over most.

Agree with this. Dieng and Johnstone are international keepers as well. Played at different levels but Mitchell is as good as Marosi was with us.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: ctay on December 28, 2022, 09:14:09 am
McSheffrey said in one interview that Mitchell was cheap and we could spend more on players the same level. That says a lot about the where we are currently shopping. I am not a big Mitchell fan, he has done better than I expected and he is ok but his distribution and kicking are poor. He doesnt inspire confidence in the defense.

In terms of the deadwood, Taylor looks a shadow of the player we knew. Actually I am not sure how many I would want to keep. I saw a comment on twitter yesterday about the number of out of contract players (14 I think). I dont mind who leaves, the problem is who is picking them to replace them. Not many young ambitious players, or experienced solid players would want to choose us at present.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Filo on December 28, 2022, 10:53:14 am
It would be interesting to see the Km stats from the Tranmere game, I’d be very surprised if anyone got anywhere near 10Km, and I suspect Tranmere’s stats are head and shoulders above ours, which would show our lack of effort
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: ravenrover on December 28, 2022, 11:27:06 am
I'm just guessing that part of the reason for Mitchell continually finding touch is that we have no ball winner up front against big centre halves so kick it wide and hope for something against the usually smaller full backs
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: scawsby steve on December 28, 2022, 05:32:53 pm
You can tell many have lowered their expectations on our players

Mitchell is not on parr with many goalkeepers we have had with the odd 1 or 2 exceptions


Since Sullivan (best keeper in our history), we've had
Gary Woods
Ross Turnbull
Stephen Bywater
Jed Steer (L)
Marko Marosi
Chris Neal (L)
Remi Matthews(L)
Sam Johnstone (L)
Thorsten Stuckmann
Ross Etheridge
Ian Lawlor
Louis Jones
Seny Dieng (L)
Joe Bursik (L)
Joe Lumley (L)
Ellery Balcombe (L)

Bar some outliers (Turnbull, Dieng and Johnstone, maybe Marosi) I'd prefer him over most.

Good post, Swinton, one that I'm in agreement with; and thanks for that list.

The only blip is Sullivan being the greatest in our history. That honour goes to Harry Gregg, who was world class.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: selby on December 28, 2022, 05:46:27 pm
  Hardwick wasn't bad Steve kept Gregg out of the team for a couple of seasons and picked for England u23s, trouble was they had to stop him from going, he was in his thirties.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: scawsby steve on December 28, 2022, 05:55:54 pm
  Hardwick wasn't bad Steve kept Gregg out of the team for a couple of seasons and picked for England u23s, trouble was they had to stop him from going, he was in his thirties.

Hardwick was very good, Brian. However, Gregg was only young and very raw when he first came. Once he developed, he was magnificent, and for me, was second only to Gordon Banks amongst the world's greatest keepers.
Title: Re: Dead wood (again)
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on December 29, 2022, 06:18:11 am
We haven’t got a target man to hit. It isn’t Miller’s game to play that way. The players need to be more intelligent and find a solution to it. We have good players who aren’t showing they are.