Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: mrfrostsdad on December 26, 2022, 07:08:57 pm
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What's the answer?
1) Is it the manager?
Wellens has proved he can manage a football club. Leyton Orient are running away with promotion atm. Didn't work out for him with us for some reason.
Butler should never have got the job. No experience. Easy option.
McSheffrey should never have got the job. No experience. Easy option.
Schofield looks like he's going the same way. No experience. I won't say easy option, because he wasn't part of the existing set up.
None of these can could/can see the players we have are not capable of doing what they want them to.
2) is th the players?
Without a doubt to a great extent. This group is the biggest shower of dog s**t I've seen for many a year. I wouldn't give a fat rats a**e if not a single one of them was here next season. Many are completely past it, Clayton, Anderson to name just 2. Some are simply p**s poor. Williams to name just one.
3) is it the board?
I'd wager that our budget is as good or better than most teams in the division. But somewhere along the line, they must rubber stamp who is employed by the club. They help pay the wages after all.
We've needed an experienced manager for ages, but we keep bring in total novices who are clueless. We need someone to kick some arses, not Buttler, McSheffrey or Schofield.
We need solid investment in bringing in players who can actually play, maybe even paying transfer fees. Not a set of has beens or utter crap that we have now.
What a mess! What say you?
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Manager can only do so much. Butler and McSheffrey were clearly poor appointments given their total inexperience. Actually felt sorry for them both. Schofield should be doing a lot better than he is, but it’s simply not a good squad and more generally there is an air of failure and accepting defeat around the club. It beggars belief that we have pissed away all this money and this will be our worst league season since 1997/98. Recruitment has been a total joke.
We’ve gone backwards at an alarming rate from being cheated out of Wembley in May 2019 to the shitshow that trudged off today in December 2022.
God only knows what happened but we are now absolutely bang average middle of the table League Two. There is no injustice or bad luck, we are totally deserving of being where we are.
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We’ve gone backwards at an alarming rate from being cheated out of Wembley in May 2019 to the shitshow that trudged off today in December 2022.
That is exactly how I feel.
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Our budget is decent so I don't blame the board, we have a new manager who is trying to change things - time will tell on that one.
I don't think we're a million miles off at this level - we just don't learn from our mistakes, or our success!
We beat Grimsby easily because we flew out of the blocks, pressed hard, moved the ball with some urgency and got our goals when we were on top. We lost at Colchester and Tranmere today because (first two mins today aside) we were slow, played backwards, had a lone and isolated striker and didn't press or close down with any urgency or force.
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A combination of the three, but more so the squad and the board.
The football-related strategy of the club has been substandard for years.
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It doesn't matter.
Nobody at the club is accountable from the top to the bottom.
And they don't care about the fans expectations whatsoever.
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Majority of the players are inept, but tactically that was embarrasing. The manager has to take full responsibility for that performance I'm afraid.
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The root cause of Rovers' demise is simple and obvious IMO.
Any organization that continually appoints inexperienced, unproven individuals to key managerial positions is only going to go one way.
Backwards.
The answer is therefore equally obvious.
Either those in charge learn from this continuous error and correct it or they are replaced by people who will.
Only then are Rovers' fortunes likely to sustainably improve.
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The root cause of Rovers' demise is simple and obvious IMO.
Any organization that continually appoints inexperienced, unproven individuals to key managerial positions is only going to go one way.
Backwards.
The answer is therefore equally obvious.
Either those in charge learn from this continuous error and correct it or they are replaced by people who will.
Only then are Rovers' fortunes likely to sustainably improve.
To be fair Branton, I don't think even Pep could get this lot playing well because the great majority are completely and utterly hopeless
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The root cause of Rovers' demise is simple and obvious IMO.
Any organization that continually appoints inexperienced, unproven individuals to key managerial positions is only going to go one way.
Backwards.
The answer is therefore equally obvious.
Either those in charge learn from this continuous error and correct it or they are replaced by people who will.
Only then are Rovers' fortunes likely to sustainably improve.
To be fair Branton, I don't think even Pep could get this lot playing well because the great majority are completely and utterly hopeless
All the players have been signed or re-signed to new contracts by the the previously appointed inexperienced, unproven managers.
Which underlines my point.
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Seen a few things on Twitter this last week saying there are parties interested in taking us over.
Yep. I know it’s twitter.
We desperately need some new energy and ambition I’m afraid.
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Elon musk ?
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Without going on a huge rant the answer to the problems is propper investment. Loans and frees will keep us stagnant forever.
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Difficult to say it's down to one single factor. There's probably a combination of things however, we can only look at what Schofield is trying to implement and with whom.
In his first few games, the players seemed to buy into him but that honeymoon period was all too short.
So why can't or won't the players carry out the game plan? Are they all thick? Can't be arsed, or is it too technical for them?
Schofield has a preferred system but he's not brought any players with him where he's played the system successfully or worked with his philosophy in the past and believe in it.
Performances suggest he's struggling to get his messages across and turned into action. Of course, some players are more receptive than others.
We can recall SO'D and other managers acquiring players who they'd worked with before, who they knew would want to work with again and had that trust they would take instructions on the pitch and bring other players up to the standard with them. Plus other players who would fit the system/philosophy. You'd probably need two or three players on the pitch at least who you knew you could trust and can influence others.
Wellens, McSheffrey and now Schofield haven't had the time to instill a way of playing or get to the next transfer window to redress the balance. Plus Wellens and McSheffrey were both hampered by a long injury list too.
Of course, 'experienced' managers are likely to have longer lists of players who they've worked with but, we know things aren't that simple these days with the transfer windows
There is no simple solution that we fans can identify. Changing manager/head coach again isn't the right thing to do, unless there are issues behind the scenes we don't see so I think he has to get a chance of getting players in that are better fits and moving on those that aren't.
Of course the man in the position to do most is Copps and that responsibility gets more acute with each defeat. Now is the time to hold our nerves and hope he has a bloody good plan for January.
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Without going on a huge rant the answer to the problems is propper investment. Loans and frees will keep us stagnant forever.
Easy to say. Much more difficult to implement in a January transfer window alone. We can't label a free or a loan as being wrong for the time, as long as we acquire players of the right stuff, it may take a combination of loans, frees, fees to get what we want in the short term.
Most of us thought the last transfer window was a relatively good one. I know fans still listen intently to what JR has to say, and even he said in July it had been a good transfer window.
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Baz summed up the position perfectly.
The Stevenage game (I think it was?) we looked like 1970s Holland. We lost the game 1-0 (it’s football, that happens) but I thought bloody hell I can’t believe these are the same players. Schofield coached them to that performance in about a week. They listened to him and did it on the day. Trouble is they need to do it every week and more than half of them are not good enough. So he’s got to get players in who can do that stuff. We have to give him time to do that.
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Bite the bullet, go out and sign some players with a bit of pace and a dig in them who like a battle, and can play a bit.
There are players that would not cost the Earth, are ambitious and like a battle and not necessarily household names.
Any outlay would be covered just getting better results and in the play offs
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Seen a few things on Twitter this last week saying there are parties interested in taking us over.
Yep. I know it’s twitter.
We desperately need some new energy and ambition I’m afraid.
Jog on!
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Bite the bullet, go out and sign some players with a bit of pace and a dig in them who like a battle, and can play a bit.
There are players that would not cost the Earth, are ambitious and like a battle and not necessarily household names.
Any outlay would be covered just getting better results and in the play offs
I know you watch plenty of games selby. If you’ve ’identified’ players who short term could give us the energy, drive, fight that is so lacking in this bunch, I’d go with that.
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
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The people who run the club don't seem to have a clue. It's a series of bad decisions and generally poor stewardship that have led to this point rather than one bad transfer window or one bad managerial appointment.
The alarm bells started ringing the summer when we sold Marquis. Despite knowing from January that he'd be wanting to move on if we didn't go up, we weren't proactive in identifying a replacement and no sense afterwards that we'd made every effort to get someone in before the deadline. But we'd surely have someone lined up to come in the moment the January window opened right? Wrong. It still took us until the end of January before we'd sign someone who could've been described as a replacement. By which point the season was a couple of bad results away from being over.
And that was just the start. Seemingly every transfer window we're slow and reactive, the incoming players generally worse than their predecessors. Bizarre and ill suited managerial appointments, all different, but not one has been able to make a positive impact on the team performance since Moore left. There now just seems to be a general malaise and losing mentality around the place that feels like an impossibility to turn around. When you think we can't get any worse, we do.
We're now struggling to put a decent team together at a level we've played above every season bar one since 2004. While the club is obviously still in a healthier position than it has been for most of its history, we now have a team that is arguably worse than what we'd have if we had no one putting money in and still played at Belle Vue.
This is just a moan really because I've no idea what the answer is.
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Well we could do a lot worse than ring Dave Penney, and / or Mark Albrighton who if either had the misfortune to share a dressing room with this lot would kick them all the way back to Donny. It's simple - no pride, no passion and at the end of the game they're all strolling round shaking hands like nowt happened.
Oh and by the way - Faulkener wasn't ready ffs
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Coming out of that match at The Valley, we still had a team and maybe a squad more than good enough to challenge the following season, if we could find decent loans to replace Kane and Wilks.
Moore gave us a short term sugar rush by filling the side full of loans, while underinvesting in permanent players. Since those loans all ended, we were left with a shell of a squad and recruitment since that point has been a masterclass in appalling decision making at every level.
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Bite the bullet, go out and sign some players with a bit of pace and a dig in them who like a battle, and can play a bit.
There are players that would not cost the Earth, are ambitious and like a battle and not necessarily household names.
Any outlay would be covered just getting better results and in the play offs
Is this realistic though? Are we an attractive proposition to the kind of industrious competent hard-working player that fits this profile? Our recent history is decline and failure. The last batch of signings looked eager to learn and took us into an automatic promotion place. Since then, promotion form dipped, McSheffery was sacked and now we are on an even steeper decline under a Head Coach with little professional credibility. On top of that, the sort of individual you envisage would be “his own man” and self motivating, not the kind of player that would relish having the Coaching Manual thrust down his throat.
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The biggest failure was throwing Wellens under the bus budget wise. Moore leaving was awful, but I understood the logic behind putting Butler in charge. Problem was, Moore just kept signing loanees, so when Wellens took over, we had 7(?) players.
At that point, that had to be above average outlay as we needed to build an entire squad. Instead, they provided a continuity budget, so instead of spending a transfer budget on 3 or 4 signings to improve, we had to spend the same money on 13 players, thus the quality was lower. We keep trying to spend money on doing up the squad bit by bit, but without the baseline, you can't do that.
SOD built his team over a few windows, but he had Penney's reliable squad to fill in whilst bringing in his team. We haven't had a baseline for a while, yet keep trying to build bit by bit. Or, as what's tended to happen, try and build a baseline, but because we've had to spread thinner it's wholesale every year.
As annoying as it is, if the board won't overspend, we need to tread water in League 2 and upgrade the squad 2 or 3 high quality players at a time, not sign a dozen every window, whilst crucially keeping the nucleus (Knoyle, Miller, Molyneux) at the club.
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I fear that over the last 12 months people looked at us just like that, hence the mish mash of recruitment. Basically those who would join us, rather than those who fitted our system.
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The biggest failure was throwing Wellens under the bus budget wise. Moore leaving was awful, but I understood the logic behind putting Butler in charge. Problem was, Moore just kept signing loanees, so when Wellens took over, we had 7(?) players.
At that point, that had to be above average outlay as we needed to build an entire squad. Instead, they provided a continuity budget, so instead of spending a transfer budget on 3 or 4 signings to improve, we had to spend the same money on 13 players, thus the quality was lower. We keep trying to spend money on doing up the squad bit by bit, but without the baseline, you can't do that.
SOD built his team over a few windows, but he had Penney's reliable squad to fill in whilst bringing in his team. We haven't had a baseline for a while, yet keep trying to build bit by bit. Or, as what's tended to happen, try and build a baseline, but because we've had to spread thinner it's wholesale every year.
As annoying as it is, if the board won't overspend, we need to tread water in League 2 and upgrade the squad 2 or 3 high quality players at a time, not sign a dozen every window, whilst crucially keeping the nucleus (Knoyle, Miller, Molyneux) at the club.
This rings true but Wellens signed the following players - Ro-Shaun Williams, Ben Close on a three year deal, Dan Gardner, Jordy Hiwula, Rodrigo Vilca, Tiago Cukur, Joe Dodoo and Aidan Barlow.
These were not successful signings. In fact, I’d go so far as saying that the summer 2021 window was probably the worst in living memory. Galbraith and Matt Smith v2 were decent loanees and Knoyle, although struggled at League One level, has been a decent signing generally. Pretty much every other player Wellens signed has not worked out.
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The cheap option manager appointments, the procrastinating transfer window in summer 21 are aligned in my opinion with other signs like the flimsy pamphlet type programme, awful material of the away kit, lack of kiosks being open in the ground, all tangible indications of significant lack of proper investment by the owners in the club despite all the rhetoric to the contrary.
It's clear we have been downsizing both on and off the pitch since pre pandemic which probably facilitated the owners in a desire to cut the cloth accordingly.. only this cutting of cloth accordingly is simply transparent on the pitch as the death of a thousand cuts with a continuing decline in results and performances. I've read the words austerity and gaslighting.. the last decade almost since 2013 in terms of lack of success and 5 year plans to the championship do now suggest so. Other than the McCann year when he managed to galvanise rhe club and got rid of the soft centre (apparent with the number of yellow and red cards), we haven't looked like matching previous achievements. Now we look more likely of falling through the trapdoor back to the conference. I did hope Coppinger could generate some magic off the field to be reflected on it but right now it looks way off.
Our rapid decline is hard to take, is it a coincidence it has happened following the sad loss of Rovers fan Dick Watson, and before that JRs departure, a step process of decline linked to reduction in financial support, despite the rhetoric to the contrary.
That said we have witnessed a real horror show of performances including by experienced pros over the last two years and there is absolutely no excuses for the clear lack of application in.the away defeats this season at Hartlepool, Colchester, Carlisle, Tranmere amongst others.. absolute horror shows with hardly a shot in anger in three of these absolutely shocking and unacceptable performances (first half at Colchester excluded). So the current crop of players and both managers this season are also culpable too.
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We’ve made some poor footballing decisions on managers and players. The financial fundamentals though are robust so it’s just a matter of using our cash wisely and stopping pissing it away. The structure that Copps is now responsible for should stop idiotic decisions being made. The window this summer was ok but not altogether great, so I hope he’s going to oversee something better this time.
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
Exactly, even if some folk got their wish and forced regime change, which would take how long? It would still come down to this!
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Were any of the board there yesterday? My guess is no, probably off watching Rugby yesterday.
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I would borrow the approach taken by Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum with English men's cricket team.
At least for the rest of this season take the result out of the equation. We shouldn't get relegated and the way we're going at the moment we won't be any where near promotion. So send the players out to entertain the crowd and enjoy themselves.
We might get a few beatings but we might get a few big wins too. Either way it's got to be better than the shite we're being served up at the moment.
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I would borrow the approach taken by Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum with English men's cricket team.
At least for the rest of this season take the result out of the equation. We shouldn't get relegated and the way we're going at the moment we won't be any where near promotion. So send the players out to entertain the crowd and enjoy themselves.
We might get a few beatings but we might get a few big wins too. Either way it's got to be better than the shite we're being served up at the moment.
great example. I’ve been saying the same to my mate.
And how have they achieved this turnaround with largely the same group of players? Man management! Which is what we’ve needed for some time now.
We need a man manager, a motivator and a leader of men at this particular juncture. We don’t need a Pep wannabe to over complicate things. He can place those ‘principles’ and ‘fundamentals’ where his head seems to be wedged at this moment. Just have a go!!
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As the board took the regrettable decision in 2016 to stop disclosing the income and expenditure for Doncaster Rovers, we only have quite dated figures to work from - but we can see that in the last disclosed figures which related to the 2014/15 season in League One under Dickov, we spent £3.7m on player salaries. If you compare that with Rotherham United who got promoted from League One in 2019/20 season, they spent £5.1m.
Given increased EPL and TV distributions over this six season period, those two budgets are pretty much the same.
I make this point only to show that if a club like Rotherham United which is certainly no bigger than us or with better infrastructure than us, and is not in a more economically advantaged area than us, and arguably don’t have the financial stability we have, then it does go to show how poorly we have made footballing decisions.
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The cheap option manager appointments, the procrastinating transfer window in summer 21 are aligned in my opinion with other signs like the flimsy pamphlet type programme, awful material of the away kit, lack of kiosks being open in the ground, all tangible indications of significant lack of proper investment by the owners in the club despite all the rhetoric to the contrary.
It's clear we have been downsizing both on and off the pitch since pre pandemic which probably facilitated the owners in a desire to cut the cloth accordingly.. only this cutting of cloth accordingly is simply transparent on the pitch as the death of a thousand cuts with a continuing decline in results and performances. I've read the words austerity and gaslighting.. the last decade almost since 2013 in terms of lack of success and 5 year plans to the championship do now suggest so. Other than the McCann year when he managed to galvanise rhe club and got rid of the soft centre (apparent with the number of yellow and red cards), we haven't looked like matching previous achievements. Now we look more likely of falling through the trapdoor back to the conference. I did hope Coppinger could generate some magic off the field to be reflected on it but right now it looks way off.
Our rapid decline is hard to take, is it a coincidence it has happened following the sad loss of Rovers fan Dick Watson, and before that JRs departure, a step process of decline linked to reduction in financial support, despite the rhetoric to the contrary.
That said we have witnessed a real horror show of performances including by experienced pros over the last two years and there is absolutely no excuses for the clear lack of application in.the away defeats this season at Hartlepool, Colchester, Carlisle, Tranmere amongst others.. absolute horror shows with hardly a shot in anger in three of these absolutely shocking and unacceptable performances (first half at Colchester excluded). So the current crop of players and both managers this season are also culpable too.
That is an excellent summary of ‘our’ situation to date.
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
As daft as it sounds I think if we went out and got 2 good cm's , got Olowu fit we could easily make the playoffs. That's how bad most of the teams are in this division.
Ben Whiteman is a prime example of what can be achieved if we are prepared to spend a bit of money.
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
As daft as it sounds I think if we went out and got 2 good cm's , got Olowu fit we could easily make the playoffs. That's how bad most of the teams are in this division.
Ben Whiteman is a prime example of what can be achieved if we are prepared to spend a bit of money.
I think so too - a couple more pieces in the jigsaw, and a more positive playing philosophy and I think we'd be picking up a lot more wins. This division is poor, if we can get at teams rather than let them play we'd put many to the sword.
On Ben Whiteman for me that is the one defining moment that put us on this downward spiral, his quality of turning defence in to attack, playing through the lines and athleticism in getting up the pitch, and chipping in with goals we've never got close to replacing. The day he left this slide started.
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As the board took the regrettable decision in 2016 to stop disclosing the income and expenditure for Doncaster Rovers, we only have quite dated figures to work from - but we can see that in the last disclosed figures which related to the 2014/15 season in League One under Dickov, we spent £3.7m on player salaries. If you compare that with Rotherham United who got promoted from League One in 2019/20 season, they spent £5.1m.
Given increased EPL and TV distributions over this six season period, those two budgets are pretty much the same.
I make this point only to show that if a club like Rotherham United which is certainly no bigger than us or with better infrastructure than us, and is not in a more economically advantaged area than us, and arguably don’t have the financial stability we have, then it does go to show how poorly we have made footballing decisions.
Rotherham have had four promotions to the championship in the last 10 years .
As a consequence they've probably accumulated at least £15m in tv revenue for those promotions plus increased attendances , sponsorship and advertising revenue .
Tony Stewart doesn't go for too much in the championship , he won't play the game , however it means they are always in pretty good shape when they take the drop back to league one .
Extremely financially stable club although hugely frustrating too when in the championship and Stewart does have his critics .
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Let's put Wellens and budget to bed, he blew it on the key signings he made and came back like Oliver "please sir I want some more" When none was forthcoming he hoovered up a few 2nd rate scraps to.make up numbers. His signings have proved not to be a success which is why he was sacked
I see it mentioned on another thread that we should revert to 4 4 2, which I said weeks ago. Trying to implement a system such as 3 4 3 depends on the quality of the players at your disposal, sadly the ones we have are not up to it. Basics are required in this league, defend well get the ball forward quickly. Whilst the formation of 3 4 3 on paper looks good sadly it turns very quickly into
5 4 1 when we are under pressure, usually after the first 5mins of a game.
The games I've seen which have been few and far between this season so far have shown that when we play at pace we can compete even with this squad. Sadly a game played at pace removes Clayton from the equation. January recruitment will be critical if we are to achieve success this season along with DS realising that Premiership tactics don't work at this level JMHO
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This is going to be an unpopular posting because it incudes an unpalletable observation about a club legend. It is my view that the problem lies at the top. A fish rots from the head. We have onwers who care little for the fans or for the football performance, they are not RTID in the mould of, say, JR but savvy business people who are focussed primarily on sustainability. We have a very competent and highly rewarded CEO who does the owners bidding and has done an excellent job of spin doctor in convincing the supporters about playing budgets etc. Who can blame him for taking his fat salary and doing the job he is paid for? But, when a well heeled fan offers to sponsor a young overseas player with massive potential to transform team performance and make a fortune for the club in sell on fees but neither our CEO or club legend can even be bothered or summon the courtesy to respond to the offer there is summat wrong. Yes this happened. Only a few months back. It is shocking. It is indicative of the attitude that has led us into these doldrums and will lead us back into non league if it does not change.
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Please give us the details, something I've missed
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Please give us the details, something I've missed
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
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Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) we have as club owners and directors who we have, it's not going to change anytime soon. I think many on this board have an inkling that the issue is at the level just below the owner, but TB is not going to make any changes there because of fan pressure.So pointless even speculating.
It looks like the people on the professional footballing side need to make the difference, so we are talking JC and DS, to me it looks like DS is carrying out the remit he was tasked to produce ie, an attractive football playing side to play attacking football but he has major issues with the personnel, if they can't or won't conform to the managements program then it's pretty obvious what needs to happen.
JC and DS are not going to produce all the extra loaves and fish to satisfy us as things stand, they need their own players and that will require more than this window.
Its a massively disheartening watch just now, that performance yesterday was abject but we all know what's required.
Will the majority of the fanbase give them the time they need? surly its only right to give them the tools to perform the task in hand.
I also think its a big ask to expect DS to temper his playing setup to conform to the players he has, that way only leads to players being allowed to wallow in their comfort zones with no overall team progression, if the principle is correct and the outcome can be produced (a la SOD) then its imperative that he holds his nerve and sticks to his playing plan.
Sometimes you have to take some steps back to be able to make the big leap forward.
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This is going to be an unpopular posting because it incudes an unpalletable observation about a club legend. It is my view that the problem lies at the top. A fish rots from the head. We have onwers who care little for the fans or for the football performance, they are not RTID in the mould of, say, JR but savvy business people who are focussed primarily on sustainability. We have a very competent and highly rewarded CEO who does the owners bidding and has done an excellent job of spin doctor in convincing the supporters about playing budgets etc. Who can blame him for taking his fat salary and doing the job he is paid for? But, when a well heeled fan offers to sponsor a young overseas player with massive potential to transform team performance and make a fortune for the club in sell on fees but neither our CEO or club legend can even be bothered or summon the courtesy to respond to the offer there is summat wrong. Yes this happened. Only a few months back. It is shocking. It is indicative of the attitude that has led us into these doldrums and will lead us back into non league if it does not change.
So where is this said young magician who can carry the fortunes of an entire football club on his young shoulders now?
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Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) we have as club owners and directors who we have, it's not going to change anytime soon. I think many on this board have an inkling that the issue is at the level just below the owner, but TB is not going to make any changes there because of fan pressure.So pointless even speculating.
It looks like the people on the professional footballing side need to make the difference, so we are talking JC and DS, to me it looks like DS is carrying out the remit he was tasked to produce ie, an attractive football playing side to play attacking football but he has major issues with the personnel, if they can't or won't conform to the managements program then it's pretty obvious what needs to happen.
JC and DS are not going to produce all the extra loaves and fish to satisfy us as things stand, they need their own players and that will require more than this window.
Its a massively disheartening watch just now, that performance yesterday was abject but we all know what's required.
Will the majority of the fanbase give them the time they need? surly its only right to give them the tools to perform the task in hand.
I also think its a big ask to expect DS to temper his playing setup to conform to the players he has, that way only leads to players being allowed to wallow in their comfort zones with no overall team progression, if the principle is correct and the outcome can be produced (a la SOD) then its imperative that he holds his nerve and sticks to his playing plan.
Sometimes you have to take some steps back to be able to make the big leap forward.
Agreed. A very realistic observation. To keep chopping and changing managers/headcoaches is just throwing people at it and hoping it sticks.
The HoF and coach need time to lay down the foundations and that doesn't come in one or even two transfer windows.
Folk refer to the comparison with Rotherham. They got their man manager in Fatty Evans but even he stretched Stewart to the limit. It took a promotion from within to steady the ship, reduce the squad and given time to establish his own methods.
It's not too long ago our fortunes and prospects were on par with Rotherham. We failed to get to the Championship in the League One play off semi due to a slip from the keeper and a couple of penalty misses. Shortly after, Rotherham gained a helping hand in the curtailed season with a marginally better points per game average whilst we were victims of the Bolton and Wigan fiasco then followed by another manager being head hunted away.
Had those slices of fortune gone the other way I'm sure some folk would be less vitriolic about our ownership and funding model.
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It's sliding doors. Imagine if we had gone up to the Championship at the end of the 18/19 season. Could probably have signed Wilks, maybe even Kane. Whiteman might have signed an extension. Likewise Marquis.
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For me all the talk of complete rebuilds is wide of the mark - the fact is that this group of players have turned in some very good showings this season - Bradford away - a real backs to the wall display of steel and determination, then we had the two late,late victories in injury time - Northampton away where we played them off the park. At home to Stevenage and a few other decent games as well.
Both Northampton away and Stevenage at home we played open, front foot positive football, kept Hurst and Molyneux wide and had KK and usually Maxwell bombing on in support, with Biggins bombing on as well - This current malaise,and the turgid slow build up, apparently is how DS wants to play football and what he is "coaching into them".
Presumably he bollocked them for the first 5 minutes yesterday when we looked something like up for it.
The answer is simple - DS want's a proper bollocking.
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He’s wrong man at the wrong time.
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The Board and CEO etc were not responsible for the embarrassing, turgid, passing exchanges between our "defenders" and goalkeeper yesterday which even had the fans of the mighty Tranmere jeering and laughing.
The tactic of tempting the opposition press onto us did not work from minute 1 and yet we persisted in continuing, with the inevitable lump up to our lonely centre forward being cigar and slippers for their defence
Why would we continue with this ? Or is there some science involved that I am too blind to see?
If there is I would welcome some logical explanation from our Head Coach instead of the same old post match rhetoric.
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Apparently he has ‘principles’ and ‘fundamentals’. It amounts to football snobbery and it’s basically shooting ourselves in our foot.
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What he says to the press and what he really thinks are probably two very different things.
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I think we need to sign players who have an inner steel and strength, the current bunch will never have it, alternatively have had it but have lost the fire in their bellies with age. There's no Russ Wicox, John Doolan, Paul Green, Rob Jones, Ben Whiteman; players who can stand up and drag the rest of the team through kicking and screaming. No substance.
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What he says to the press and what he really thinks are probably two very different things.
I hope so!
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I think we need to sign players who have an inner steel and strength, the current bunch will never have it, alternatively have had it but have lost the fire in their bellies with age. There's no Russ Wicox, John Doolan, Paul Green, Rob Jones, Ben Whiteman; players who can stand up and drag the rest of the team through kicking and screaming. No substance.
The Schofield style is based around team play. All the above (and Copps for that matter) would hold the ball and look around for the best pass. You may be expecting too much in imagining that he would sign that type of individual.
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We should play the Mike Bassett way 4-4-2 or words to effect.
Joking apart I honestly think we should play that way, giving Miller some support and thus stopping the ball coming back towards our goal.
Why teams/managers insist of trying to play like Man City with League Two players, it baffles/annoys the life out of me
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Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) we have as club owners and directors who we have, it's not going to change anytime soon. I think many on this board have an inkling that the issue is at the level just below the owner, but TB is not going to make any changes there because of fan pressure.So pointless even speculating.
It looks like the people on the professional footballing side need to make the difference, so we are talking JC and DS, to me it looks like DS is carrying out the remit he was tasked to produce ie, an attractive football playing side to play attacking football but he has major issues with the personnel, if they can't or won't conform to the managements program then it's pretty obvious what needs to happen.
JC and DS are not going to produce all the extra loaves and fish to satisfy us as things stand, they need their own players and that will require more than this window.
Its a massively disheartening watch just now, that performance yesterday was abject but we all know what's required.
Will the majority of the fanbase give them the time they need? surly its only right to give them the tools to perform the task in hand.
I also think its a big ask to expect DS to temper his playing setup to conform to the players he has, that way only leads to players being allowed to wallow in their comfort zones with no overall team progression, if the principle is correct and the outcome can be produced (a la SOD) then its imperative that he holds his nerve and sticks to his playing plan.
Sometimes you have to take some steps back to be able to make the big leap forward.
The breakdown in that argument, DD, is attendances. Supporters are already staying away, and unless things drastically improve, the stadium will be almost empty, which will be disastrous for the club.
The one thing Rovers don't have is time.
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As John Ryan says in the dfp. The club needs a top to bottom shake up.
I said it at the time, but the appointment of JC I believe was a cameo attempt at placating the fans into thinking real change was soon the horizon.
Unless I’m missing something, nothing has changed since he arrived. I know to many this will be controversial, but his appointment is wasted money imo. Jobs for the boys. Which I suspect was engineered by himself, for himself.
Abject performances.
Inconsistency.
No obvious leadership on and off the pitch.
No clear playing style.
A loss of identity and reputation as a football playing team.
A loss of support.
I’ll be going to the Orient game fully expecting rovers to be given a footballing lesson. Happy to be proved wrong.
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This is going to be an unpopular posting because it incudes an unpalletable observation about a club legend. It is my view that the problem lies at the top. A fish rots from the head. We have onwers who care little for the fans or for the football performance, they are not RTID in the mould of, say, JR but savvy business people who are focussed primarily on sustainability. We have a very competent and highly rewarded CEO who does the owners bidding and has done an excellent job of spin doctor in convincing the supporters about playing budgets etc. Who can blame him for taking his fat salary and doing the job he is paid for? But, when a well heeled fan offers to sponsor a young overseas player with massive potential to transform team performance and make a fortune for the club in sell on fees but neither our CEO or club legend can even be bothered or summon the courtesy to respond to the offer there is summat wrong. Yes this happened. Only a few months back. It is shocking. It is indicative of the attitude that has led us into these doldrums and will lead us back into non league if it does not change.
Unless someone has seen and can provide a copy of exactly what was sent to the club (that you claim has been ignored) and details of when it was sent and how, I cry bullshit. Twitter bullshit, probably.
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As John Ryan says in the dfp. The club needs a top to bottom shake up.
I said it at the time, but the appointment of JC I believe was a cameo attempt at placating the fans into thinking real change was soon the horizon.
Unless I’m missing something, nothing has changed since he arrived. I know to many this will be controversial, but his appointment is wasted money imo. Jobs for the boys. Which I suspect was engineered by himself, for himself.
Abject performances.
Inconsistency.
No obvious leadership on and off the pitch.
No clear playing style.
A loss of identity and reputation as a football playing team.
A loss of support.
I’ll be going to the Orient game fully expecting rovers to be given a footballing lesson. Happy to be proved wrong.
The reason the board appointed a Head of Football, somebody else to take the flack instead of themselves. There is no ambition to have a successful football club at Rovers with the current owners, which is why we lost MCCann, Whiteman, Kane, et al, and why we will lose Faulkner and Miller sooner rather then later.
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As John Ryan says in the dfp. The club needs a top to bottom shake up.
I said it at the time, but the appointment of JC I believe was a cameo attempt at placating the fans into thinking real change was soon the horizon.
Unless I’m missing something, nothing has changed since he arrived. I know to many this will be controversial, but his appointment is wasted money imo. Jobs for the boys. Which I suspect was engineered by himself, for himself.
Abject performances.
Inconsistency.
No obvious leadership on and off the pitch.
No clear playing style.
A loss of identity and reputation as a football playing team.
A loss of support.
I’ll be going to the Orient game fully expecting rovers to be given a footballing lesson. Happy to be proved wrong.
John Ryan also said on 23 July "Well done Rovers great window and thanks to Terry Brammall for backing the team i can see another promotion on its way"
He received quite a number of supporting comments as I'm sure like many, we thought it was a good transfer window, particularly in comparison to the previous couple of seasons.
Is JR just a cynical fan like the rest of us? What does changing things from top to bottom actually look like, what does it mean?
Since the summer window the board and the HoF had to act to relieve McSheffrey but have not had the benefit of another transfer window to 'shake things up' even further and I'm sure they desperately want to see improvement too.
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As John Ryan says in the dfp. The club needs a top to bottom shake up.
I said it at the time, but the appointment of JC I believe was a cameo attempt at placating the fans into thinking real change was soon the horizon.
Unless I’m missing something, nothing has changed since he arrived. I know to many this will be controversial, but his appointment is wasted money imo. Jobs for the boys. Which I suspect was engineered by himself, for himself.
Abject performances.
Inconsistency.
No obvious leadership on and off the pitch.
No clear playing style.
A loss of identity and reputation as a football playing team.
A loss of support.
I’ll be going to the Orient game fully expecting rovers to be given a footballing lesson. Happy to be proved wrong.
The reason the board appointed a Head of Football, somebody else to take the flack instead of themselves. There is no ambition to have a successful football club at Rovers with the current owners, which is why we lost MCCann, Whiteman, Kane, et al, and why we will lose Faulkner and Miller sooner rather then later.
Then how did we get McCann, Whitemen, Marquis etc in the first place? How did Whitemen and Marquis both stay and extend their contracts? Kane wasn't ours btw.
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Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) we have as club owners and directors who we have, it's not going to change anytime soon. I think many on this board have an inkling that the issue is at the level just below the owner, but TB is not going to make any changes there because of fan pressure.So pointless even speculating.
It looks like the people on the professional footballing side need to make the difference, so we are talking JC and DS, to me it looks like DS is carrying out the remit he was tasked to produce ie, an attractive football playing side to play attacking football but he has major issues with the personnel, if they can't or won't conform to the managements program then it's pretty obvious what needs to happen.
JC and DS are not going to produce all the extra loaves and fish to satisfy us as things stand, they need their own players and that will require more than this window.
Its a massively disheartening watch just now, that performance yesterday was abject but we all know what's required.
Will the majority of the fanbase give them the time they need? surly its only right to give them the tools to perform the task in hand.
I also think its a big ask to expect DS to temper his playing setup to conform to the players he has, that way only leads to players being allowed to wallow in their comfort zones with no overall team progression, if the principle is correct and the outcome can be produced (a la SOD) then its imperative that he holds his nerve and sticks to his playing plan.
Sometimes you have to take some steps back to be able to make the big leap forward.
The breakdown in that argument, DD, is attendances. Supporters are already staying away, and unless things drastically improve, the stadium will be almost empty, which will be disastrous for the club.
The one thing Rovers don't have is time.
I understand completely Steve, attendances are falling and displays like that cannot do them any good whatsoever but what can we do other than have faith in a manager who has yet to be given the tools for his job. If we got rid and brought in someone else in haste would we say the same thing again when he fails for all the same reasons?
We would be very lucky indeed to be able to source a manager who could implement some sort of system that this current squad could perform to. we lack strength, pace and guile but most importantly we lack the desire. I think we all know that a good number are short of many of the elements we require and will not bring us the success we crave. Its going to require some fresh blood and we will need it whoever is in charge.
When you say the one thing we don't have is time its ironically the only thing we can be certain we do have, with all the implications it brings.
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As John Ryan says in the dfp. The club needs a top to bottom shake up.
I said it at the time, but the appointment of JC I believe was a cameo attempt at placating the fans into thinking real change was soon the horizon.
Unless I’m missing something, nothing has changed since he arrived. I know to many this will be controversial, but his appointment is wasted money imo. Jobs for the boys. Which I suspect was engineered by himself, for himself.
Abject performances.
Inconsistency.
No obvious leadership on and off the pitch.
No clear playing style.
A loss of identity and reputation as a football playing team.
A loss of support.
I’ll be going to the Orient game fully expecting rovers to be given a footballing lesson. Happy to be proved wrong.
The reason the board appointed a Head of Football, somebody else to take the flack instead of themselves. There is no ambition to have a successful football club at Rovers with the current owners, which is why we lost MCCann, Whiteman, Kane, et al, and why we will lose Faulkner and Miller sooner rather then later.
Then how did we get McCann, Whitemen, Marquis etc in the first place? How did Whitemen and Marquis both stay and extend their contracts? Kane wasn't ours btw.
until a couple of years ago I thought the board did a pretty good job, recently it seems like tb has basically had enough of any
Extra funding, which would have been fine if we had a decent squad but unfortunately we have needed a few rebuilds
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
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Please give us the details, something I've missed
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
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Please give us the details, something I've missed
Please give us the details, something I've missed
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
Because in a previous post you've complained about the club not answering emails in regards to sponsorship.
Irrespective, I'm not defending anything. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you're on about. I don't think anyone has. You've still to explain it.
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What he says to the press and what he really thinks are probably two very different things.
I agree, Baz, but talking about principles and fundamentals each time following performances like we're being served up sounds to me like we are being taken for fools.
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Quote from Dickos
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
If that’s the case then the level of these players is not good enough. We are 12pts off the automatic promotion places and do not look as though we can win enough games or score enough goals to get there. So we have wasted money on players if you are and others are right about one of the biggest budgets
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Please give us the details, something I've missed
Please give us the details, something I've missed
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
Because in a previous post you've complained about the club not answering emails in regards to sponsorship.
Irrespective, I'm not defending anything. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you're on about. I don't think anyone has. You've still to explain it.
Fare enough.
I probably should have provided more detail but to do so would not be helpful to the club or the individuals involved.
Like most of us here I am horrified by the slide down the slippery slope and the apathy that has allowed it to happen. I believe the answer would be to find enthusiastic and wealthy new owners who are hardcore DRFC supporters to boot. Unfortunately they are not queuing up. I also acknowledge that the current owners have given their time, expertise and money in the past and that there are a lot worse out there.
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Please give us the details, something I've missed
Please give us the details, something I've missed
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
If I'm understanding correctly, the club's facing annihilation because someone didn't answer an email.
What makes you think someone failed to answer an Email ? No mention of Email was made.
Why are you defending the indefensible and trying to trivialise someting so.serious ?
Because in a previous post you've complained about the club not answering emails in regards to sponsorship.
Irrespective, I'm not defending anything. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you're on about. I don't think anyone has. You've still to explain it.
Fare enough.
I probably should have provided more detail but to do so would not be helpful to the club or the individuals involved.
Like most of us here I am horrified by the slide down the slippery slope and the apathy that has allowed it to happen. I believe the answer would be to find enthusiastic and wealthy new owners who are hardcore DRFC supporters to boot. Unfortunately they are not queuing up. I also acknowledge that the current owners have given their time, expertise and money in the past and that there are a lot worse out there.
Whereas repeating unsubstantiated rumours does wonders for the club!
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
The problem is people rush to judgement based on perception rather than facts.
We do have one of the largest budgets in this division, as we expected, so that's not the issue. The issue is clearly based around the playing squad and the work done at Cantley Park, its that that needs addressing. This can't be fixed overnight, but I'm hoping for a good transfer window to at least put us on the right track again.
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I watched the Leyton Orient v Stevenage game yesterday lunchtime .
Two teams clear at the top of the league from the chasing pack .
Whilst there was bits and bobs of football played , in essence it was a fight backed up by superb organisation from both teams .
Both teams were extremely well coached and drilled with both managers asking their players to do what they can do which was to do the basics very well .
In the end they cancelled one another out because the mistakes were kept to a minimum .
Nobody needs to invent the wheel in league two from the training ground and the technical area and the first thing a manager needs to know is to understand the league and the capabilities of his players and work from there .
DS isn't at Huddersfield Town in the championship and he's not got that calibre of player at his disposal with all due respect to play in areas of the field he'd probably like to .
League two is a fight every week .
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Has anyone seen the budget
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I’d expect, no, demand to see a proven goal scorer in the next window.
Look back to the lge two promotion of 16/17. Marquis got 26 goals for rovers.
We are no where near having a regular onion bag finder with the current crop.
Defensively, rovers only lost 11 games all that season. They have already lost 9 so far this time around.
Interestingly, a certain Leyton Orient got relegated that season.
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
The problem is people rush to judgement based on perception rather than facts.
We do have one of the largest budgets in this division, as we expected, so that's not the issue. The issue is clearly based around the playing squad and the work done at Cantley Park, its that that needs addressing. This can't be fixed overnight, but I'm hoping for a good transfer window to at least put us on the right track again.
One of the largest budgets?? A bit like 4.5 million a year !?
If the problems lies at Cantley, who is it that makes the decision to employ them.
The lack of passion and drive from the top is clear to see.
Let's hope January is better than last year as that was a joke, but then at least we can always wait till summer.
This board and thier decisions last year that are to blame for us even being in this league. Shame on them !!
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
Does make me laugh posts like this. Written as though you know all other 23 L2 squads inside out.
Maybe you can list detailed squad comparisons for those of us who aren’t experts on the other 23 clubs. Should be easy as it’s “blatently”
From what I can see, Rowe, Anderson, Taylor and Close i would expect to be the biggest earners…everyone else I would expect to be very modest wages.
Surely other teams have a handful of higher earner too?
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Agree with the above. Whenever SM joins in the discussions it's 100% backing the current board and ownership. (This isn't meant to belittle his support or work for the club) and I do see a comment from him about the work done on training ground here which leads me to conclude that upper management are from impressed with what they have seen from our latest coaching set up.
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Agree with the above. Whenever SM joins in the discussions it's 100% backing the current board and ownership. (This isn't meant to belittle his support or work for the club) and I do see a comment from him about the work done on training ground here which leads me to conclude that upper management are from impressed with what they have seen from our latest coaching set up.
I don't 100% back anybody, certainly not the board or senior management.
What you're doing is what you always do, whenever I correct anybody for their false statements and scattergun theories about what's happening you interpret that as 100% support.
It's been stated by some this week that Eco Power have been paying the wages of the players, which couldn't be further from the truth. Statements and accusations like that will be very dangerous to the club if not knocked back, that has to be the right thing to do.
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
Does make me laugh posts like this. Written as though you know all other 23 L2 squads inside out.
Maybe you can list detailed squad comparisons for those of us who aren’t experts on the other 23 clubs. Should be easy as it’s “blatently”
From what I can see, Rowe, Anderson, Taylor and Close i would expect to be the biggest earners…everyone else I would expect to be very modest wages.
Surely other teams have a handful of higher earner too?
You don't have to go to all that trouble, you just need to get the info from the EFL who have everybody's budget.
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
Does make me laugh posts like this. Written as though you know all other 23 L2 squads inside out.
Maybe you can list detailed squad comparisons for those of us who aren’t experts on the other 23 clubs. Should be easy as it’s “blatently”
From what I can see, Rowe, Anderson, Taylor and Close i would expect to be the biggest earners…everyone else I would expect to be very modest wages.
Surely other teams have a handful of higher earner too?
You don't have to go to all that trouble, you just need to get the info from the EFL who have everybody's budget.
Can the average fan like me and Dickos request this though?
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I’d expect, no, demand to see a proven goal scorer in the next window.
Look back to the lge two promotion of 16/17. Marquis got 26 goals for rovers.
We are no where near having a regular onion bag finder with the current crop.
Defensively, rovers only lost 11 games all that season. They have already lost 9 so far this time around.
Interestingly, a certain Leyton Orient got relegated that season.
We have what appears to be a good striker in George but he can't do it all himself. We are not getting anyone near him to be able to create the chances which he would put away. He needs help from others in the team
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I’d expect, no, demand to see a proven goal scorer in the next window.
Look back to the lge two promotion of 16/17. Marquis got 26 goals for rovers.
We are no where near having a regular onion bag finder with the current crop.
Defensively, rovers only lost 11 games all that season. They have already lost 9 so far this time around.
Interestingly, a certain Leyton Orient got relegated that season.
We have what appears to be a good striker in George but he can't do it all himself. We are not getting anyone near him to be able to create the chances which he would put away. He needs help from others in the team
Absolutely. He's proved he can score goals if he gets the service, makes you wonder what the lads thinking at present.
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The board took the decision in 2016 to stop disclosing our expenditure on wages and salaries. I don’t see why there couldn’t be some form of truncated annual report made public specifically related to Rovers and only on key metrics, income and expenditure.
Pretty much every league club makes this information public in their annual accounts filed with Companies House. We don’t, and I don’t think the Club Doncaster argument really washes.
What’s the issue with making a one sheet disclosure public?
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The board took the decision in 2016 to stop disclosing our expenditure on wages and salaries. I don’t see why there couldn’t be some form of truncated annual report made public specifically related to Rovers and only on key metrics, income and expenditure.
Pretty much every league club makes this information public in their annual accounts filed with Companies House. We don’t, and I don’t think the Club Doncaster argument really washes.
What’s the issue with making a one sheet disclosure public?
Genuine question. What good do you think it will achieve? Plus can you forsee any consequences?
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I don’t care much either way what the figures say tbh but it’s a bit rum that nigh on every club discloses this and yet our supporters don’t see this. The VSC having sight of this but clearly on terms that mean they can’t share it with other supporters, doesn’t cut it.
There is a more fundamental point here about transparency and openness. Nobody has any idea how sustainable we are, as we can’t see even the most basic figures relating to the club.
I think these days we need to be far more open. The club is an asset of the community and the supporters, and we should be entitled to basic information about the finances of our club.
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It isn’t going right on the pitch, that is why we are all questioning what is going on. Nobody would care about the budget if we were top of the league. The managers we’ve had any players current and recent past haven’t performed well enough. We mention formations all the time, but if you can’t get seven or eight of the team performing to a good standard game after game, you will struggle, any team would.
A simplicity needs to come back into our game. Forget trying to be the most entertaining, trying to get players doing what they aren’t capable of. Look to get shots on target early on in games. Take the game to the opposition. Stop fearing what the other side are capable of. Play players in their best positions.
Quick passing, move the ball on, nobody runs quicker than the ball. Put crosses into the box, forget that extra pass sideways. Players need to stop passing the buck. Get on the ball and be the difference, don’t rely on your mate at the side of you to do it. They are doing a job that many of us would love to be doing. Enjoy it and get some games won!.
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It isn’t going right on the pitch, that is why we are all questioning what is going on. Nobody would care about the budget if we were top of the league. The managers we’ve had any players current and recent past haven’t performed well enough. We mention formations all the time, but if you can’t get seven or eight of the team performing to a good standard game after game, you will struggle, any team would.
A simplicity needs to come back into our game. Forget trying to be the most entertaining, trying to get players doing what they aren’t capable of. Look to get shots on target early on in games. Take the game to the opposition. Stop fearing what the other side are capable of. Play players in their best positions.
Quick passing, move the ball on, nobody runs quicker than the ball. Put crosses into the box, forget that extra pass sideways. Players need to stop passing the buck. Get on the ball and be the difference, don’t rely on your mate at the side of you to do it. They are doing a job that many of us would love to be doing. Enjoy it and get some games won!.
Spot on!
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
Exactly, even if some folk got their wish and forced regime change, which would take how long? It would still come down to this!
I thought we went through that last time?
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
Exactly, even if some folk got their wish and forced regime change, which would take how long? It would still come down to this!
I thought we went through that last time?
When you lose the likes of Danny Andrews to your rivals, that set the tone for where we are now.
Substantial fund were available last January and that turned out to be broken promises resulting in relegation.
We have to face facts we are where we are due to decisions made from above.
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Money was spent last January - probably quite a lot - but it went on players that didn’t and probably couldn’t turn it around.
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
Exactly, even if some folk got their wish and forced regime change, which would take how long? It would still come down to this!
I thought we went through that last time?
When you lose the likes of Danny Andrews to your rivals, that set the tone for where we are now.
Substantial fund were available last January and that turned out to be broken promises resulting in relegation.
We have to face facts we are where we are due to decisions made from above.
I don't think many people lost much sleep about Danny Andrew. Poor defender, questionable fitness record and only got some credit from the odd goal.
I'd take Reece James over him anytime.
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JUST SIGN SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE GOOD AT PLAYING FOOTBALL.
Fairly easy solution to it all.
Exactly, even if some folk got their wish and forced regime change, which would take how long? It would still come down to this!
I thought we went through that last time?
When you lose the likes of Danny Andrews to your rivals, that set the tone for where we are now.
Substantial fund were available last January and that turned out to be broken promises resulting in relegation.
We have to face facts we are where we are due to decisions made from above.
I don't think many people lost much sleep about Danny Andrew. Poor defender, questionable fitness record and only got some credit from the odd goal.
I'd take Reece James over him anytime.
Both good league one players, far better than what we have now. Lost Reece and replaced him with Horton.
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Is the memory of the trajectory of the glory years holding us back? That was a model built on taking players who were not getting a look in at other clubs / diamonds in the rough and developing them in to something greater (Stock, Wellens, Copps, Mills etc). Similar to the starting positions of our more recent signings (Hurst, Miller, Maxwell, Griffiths, Olowu, Mitchell etc etc). This transfer policy at present is not working.
We should be looking more at the Dean Saunders L1 promotion season for inspiration but of course in a way that suits the game and the division at present. Solid performers and tough proven pros at the level (Jones, McCombe, Paynter, Spurr, C.Brown). It was short term success but did the job for that season. At L2 level, you would have thought that we’d have the budget for this sensible approach.
Or am I overthinking it?
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Is the memory of the trajectory of the glory years holding us back? That was a model built on taking players who were not getting a look in at other clubs / diamonds in the rough and developing them in to something greater (Stock, Wellens, Copps, Mills etc). Similar to the starting positions of our more recent signings (Hurst, Miller, Maxwell, Griffiths, Olowu, Mitchell etc etc). This transfer policy at present is not working.
We should be looking more at the Dean Saunders L1 promotion season for inspiration but of course in a way that suits the game and the division at present. Solid performers and tough proven pros at the level (Jones, McCombe, Paynter, Spurr, C.Brown). It was short term success but did the job for that season. At L2 level, you would have thought that we’d have the budget for this sensible approach.
Or am I overthinking it?
Stock wasn't getting a look in at a Championship team after impressing in League One to get a move to that level.
Wellens was in TOTY for League One the two previous seasons.
Copps was doing well in the Conference so we signed him after we were promoted to League One.
Mills, yeah, young player we gave a chance to on loan from Man City then subsequently signed permanently.
O'Connor, Heffernan, Roberts and Hayter were other players who had done well at League One and we ended up signing.
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Is the memory of the trajectory of the glory years holding us back? That was a model built on taking players who were not getting a look in at other clubs / diamonds in the rough and developing them in to something greater (Stock, Wellens, Copps, Mills etc). Similar to the starting positions of our more recent signings (Hurst, Miller, Maxwell, Griffiths, Olowu, Mitchell etc etc). This transfer policy at present is not working.
We should be looking more at the Dean Saunders L1 promotion season for inspiration but of course in a way that suits the game and the division at present. Solid performers and tough proven pros at the level (Jones, McCombe, Paynter, Spurr, C.Brown). It was short term success but did the job for that season. At L2 level, you would have thought that we’d have the budget for this sensible approach.
Or am I overthinking it?
Stock wasn't getting a look in at a Championship team after impressing in League One to get a move to that level.
Wellens was in TOTY for League One the two previous seasons.
Copps was doing well in the Conference so we signed him after we were promoted to League One.
Mills, yeah, young player we gave a chance to on loan from Man City then subsequently signed permanently.
O'Connor, Roberts and Hayter were other players who had done well at League One and we ended up signing.
Fair enough. I guess we’re just tight b*starts now then
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Is the memory of the trajectory of the glory years holding us back? That was a model built on taking players who were not getting a look in at other clubs / diamonds in the rough and developing them in to something greater (Stock, Wellens, Copps, Mills etc). Similar to the starting positions of our more recent signings (Hurst, Miller, Maxwell, Griffiths, Olowu, Mitchell etc etc). This transfer policy at present is not working.
We should be looking more at the Dean Saunders L1 promotion season for inspiration but of course in a way that suits the game and the division at present. Solid performers and tough proven pros at the level (Jones, McCombe, Paynter, Spurr, C.Brown). It was short term success but did the job for that season. At L2 level, you would have thought that we’d have the budget for this sensible approach.
Or am I overthinking it?
Stock wasn't getting a look in at a Championship team after impressing in League One to get a move to that level.
Wellens was in TOTY for League One the two previous seasons.
Copps was doing well in the Conference so we signed him after we were promoted to League One.
Mills, yeah, young player we gave a chance to on loan from Man City then subsequently signed permanently.
O'Connor, Roberts and Hayter were other players who had done well at League One and we ended up signing.
Fair enough. I guess we’re just tight b*starts now then
Or were spending money like water then.
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Is the memory of the trajectory of the glory years holding us back? That was a model built on taking players who were not getting a look in at other clubs / diamonds in the rough and developing them in to something greater (Stock, Wellens, Copps, Mills etc). Similar to the starting positions of our more recent signings (Hurst, Miller, Maxwell, Griffiths, Olowu, Mitchell etc etc). This transfer policy at present is not working.
We should be looking more at the Dean Saunders L1 promotion season for inspiration but of course in a way that suits the game and the division at present. Solid performers and tough proven pros at the level (Jones, McCombe, Paynter, Spurr, C.Brown). It was short term success but did the job for that season. At L2 level, you would have thought that we’d have the budget for this sensible approach.
Or am I overthinking it?
Stock wasn't getting a look in at a Championship team after impressing in League One to get a move to that level.
Wellens was in TOTY for League One the two previous seasons.
Copps was doing well in the Conference so we signed him after we were promoted to League One.
Mills, yeah, young player we gave a chance to on loan from Man City then subsequently signed permanently.
O'Connor, Roberts and Hayter were other players who had done well at League One and we ended up signing.
Fair enough. I guess we’re just tight b*starts now then
Or were spending money like water then.
Was lots of money spent (relatively) in the Dave Penney era of back to back promotions? I was only young at the time
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Is the memory of the trajectory of the glory years holding us back? That was a model built on taking players who were not getting a look in at other clubs / diamonds in the rough and developing them in to something greater (Stock, Wellens, Copps, Mills etc). Similar to the starting positions of our more recent signings (Hurst, Miller, Maxwell, Griffiths, Olowu, Mitchell etc etc). This transfer policy at present is not working.
We should be looking more at the Dean Saunders L1 promotion season for inspiration but of course in a way that suits the game and the division at present. Solid performers and tough proven pros at the level (Jones, McCombe, Paynter, Spurr, C.Brown). It was short term success but did the job for that season. At L2 level, you would have thought that we’d have the budget for this sensible approach.
Or am I overthinking it?
Stock wasn't getting a look in at a Championship team after impressing in League One to get a move to that level.
Wellens was in TOTY for League One the two previous seasons.
Copps was doing well in the Conference so we signed him after we were promoted to League One.
Mills, yeah, young player we gave a chance to on loan from Man City then subsequently signed permanently.
O'Connor, Roberts and Hayter were other players who had done well at League One and we ended up signing.
Fair enough. I guess we’re just tight b*starts now then
Or were spending money like water then.
Was lots of money spent (relatively) in the Dave Penney era of back to back promotions? I was only young at the time
The cup run beating city, villa and the arsenal game would have boosted the coffers.
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Quote from Dickos
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
If that’s the case then the level of these players is not good enough. We are 12pts off the automatic promotion places and do not look as though we can win enough games or score enough goals to get there. So we have wasted money on players if you are and others are right about one of the biggest budgets
I agree some of them aren’t good enough but the board didn’t choose the players they made the money available and others spent it on players that aren’t good enough
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
Does make me laugh posts like this. Written as though you know all other 23 L2 squads inside out.
Maybe you can list detailed squad comparisons for those of us who aren’t experts on the other 23 clubs. Should be easy as it’s “blatently”
From what I can see, Rowe, Anderson, Taylor and Close i would expect to be the biggest earners…everyone else I would expect to be very modest wages.
Surely other teams have a handful of higher earner too?
I’d add to that, knoyle and molyneux, these 6 players will Be amongst the best paid in league two.
That’s pretty obvious
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It is the Manager's job to motivate the players to perform, to develop a winning style of play that utilises the individual player's strengths and to create a winning mentality. The whole should be greater than the sum of it's parts. At the moment we do not appear to be achieving this. Either that or our players are just not good enough.
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It is the Manager's job to motivate the players to perform, to develop a winning style of play that utilises the individual player's strengths and to create a winning mentality. The whole should be greater than the sum of it's parts. At the moment we do not appear to be achieving this. Either that or our players are just not good enough.
totally agree, I think it’s a mixture of bad management, poor player’s and I don’t care attitude board
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
Does make me laugh posts like this. Written as though you know all other 23 L2 squads inside out.
Maybe you can list detailed squad comparisons for those of us who aren’t experts on the other 23 clubs. Should be easy as it’s “blatently”
From what I can see, Rowe, Anderson, Taylor and Close i would expect to be the biggest earners…everyone else I would expect to be very modest wages.
Surely other teams have a handful of higher earner too?
I’d add to that, knoyle and molyneux, these 6 players will Be amongst the best paid in league two.
That’s pretty obvious
Knoyle can’t have been on much at Cambridge. Was probably happy with a modest increase and L1 football when he joined us. I would then expect those wages went down on relegation.
Molyneux it was said was waiting for higher league offers but none came off. Again I expect he accepted a modest increase from Hartlepool.
When you say among the best paid in L2 what you saying? Top 10, 20?
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Spending the wage doesn’t guarantee success. There will be good deals and bad deals to be had.
Swindon have just signed Charlie Austin.
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Spending the wage doesn’t guarantee success. There will be good deals and bad deals to be had.
Swindon have just signed Charlie Austin.
Alfie May wasn’t a bad signing for Cheltenham was he? 116 apps 43 goals since he left rovers.
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Be careful what you say! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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I think it's easier to answer why we find ourselves in the position we're in rather than try and figure out how we get out of this mess, and you have to put that down to those running the club.
All the recent managerial appointments we've made have been internal candidates or external unknown quantities. They weren't the easy options - they were the cheap options.
I certainly don't fall for the guff about "one of the largest budgets in the league" or "we'd pay the manager a high wage regardless of who we hired". It's gaslighting by the board pure and simple, and unfortunately plenty of fans are happy to listen and believe those comments despite evidence to the contrary.
Would getting new owners in solve the issue? Depends who you brought in and how ambitious they'd be. The answer is - probably not. Doncaster isn't a Southern club which seem to be the clubs attracting foreign investors - unless you're a Northern club with a previous Premier League pedigree.
We don't get enough fans in ground even when we're doing well, so gates are always below par. That puts off investment. Remember John Ryan's constant rallying cries when we were in the Championship?
So you need a local investor(s) who is a lifelong Rovers fan and isn't bothered about losing money. I don't see that person or persons coming frankly.
Guff about the biggest budgets in the league? Just open your eyes and look at our squad compared to the others in this league and you’ll see it’s blatantly one of the most expensive squads in the league
Does make me laugh posts like this. Written as though you know all other 23 L2 squads inside out.
Maybe you can list detailed squad comparisons for those of us who aren’t experts on the other 23 clubs. Should be easy as it’s “blatently”
From what I can see, Rowe, Anderson, Taylor and Close i would expect to be the biggest earners…everyone else I would expect to be very modest wages.
Surely other teams have a handful of higher earner too?
I’d add to that, knoyle and molyneux, these 6 players will Be amongst the best paid in league two.
That’s pretty obvious
Knoyle can’t have been on much at Cambridge. Was probably happy with a modest increase and L1 football when he joined us. I would then expect those wages went down on relegation.
Molyneux it was said was waiting for higher league offers but none came off. Again I expect he accepted a modest increase from Hartlepool.
When you say among the best paid in L2 what you saying? Top 10, 20?
Knoyle was in the league two team of the year when we signed him, so we would’ve had to give him a good contract for him to come to us,
Molyneux was recognised as one of the best players in league 2 so again we would’ve had to offer a good contract to get him
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Both players are taking time to impose their game on this league. In fact Molyneux as been disappointing for me. Not saying he’s a bad player but I expected a lot more of him both going forward and scoring, which he’s not doing. His defensive qualities are poor as well.
Knoyle under Schofields formation I would want him at RWB then we would see more of his qualities. Going forward fro RCB then makes the defence vulnerable.
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Well, I think I've found the answer: win 2 games on the run and everyone is happy!!
Some great comments on the thread though. Just shows how much difference a week makes
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Well, I think I've found the answer: win 2 games on the run and everyone is happy!!
Some great comments on the thread though. Just shows how much difference a week makes
Some people are easy pleased, same as they are easy displeased
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Well, I think I've found the answer: win 2 games on the run and everyone is happy!!
Some great comments on the thread though. Just shows how much difference a week makes
Some people are easy pleased, same as they are easy displeased
Including yourself in that?
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There’s no point pointing the finger at one portion of fans or the other every time there’s a win or loss.
Our league position is very flattering on us. A -4 goal difference and only 4 teams have conceded more. Yet we are a point off the play offs.
Consistent performances and collective work rate from the team will bring everyone around.
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Well, I think I've found the answer: win 2 games on the run and everyone is happy!!
Some great comments on the thread though. Just shows how much difference a week makes
Some people are easy pleased, same as they are easy displeased
Including yourself in that?
Everyone has a right to feel displeased the way the first half of the season as gone, just like we can be pleased with the last 2 wins, even though not convincing wins, to many of you Mr positive who just sit and wait to slag a negative post off.