Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: swain_drfc on January 13, 2023, 06:50:42 pm
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Time to wake up people!
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Please go and support something else - put your effort into something constructive....
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Well that couldn’t be more BLUNT
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Knoyle statement says it all with that sentence, everyone can see it from the outside apart from those with rose tinted glasses. But the fact that has come from the inside from a player that did care and gave it 100% every game says it all.
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It could also be read as " I would have stayed if you payed me more" a final swipe at the club. Some players make their living by running contracts down.
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Please go and support something else - put your effort into something constructive....
You have to wonder why some of the performances this season have been below par! I bet most of the squad can see the lack of ambition from our beloved club! You keep those rose tinted glasses on though fella! See you in the national league as that is where we are heading under this leadership.
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How many former players and managers have said something along these lines in the last 5 years. Can’t all be wrong can they? Makes you think doesn’t it
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How many former players and managers have said something along these lines in the last 5 years. Can’t all be wrong can they? Makes you think doesn’t it
Not really no
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Sad to read and sad to lose him. I hope that doesn’t come back to bite us later.
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It's not about having rose tinted glasses but having a sense of realism and perspective. Nothing deserves some of the personal and toxic negativity. There are other ways of influencing things rather than being destructive.
Whatever is happening behind the scenes does not justify the personal attacks to the absolute low of persistently booing our captain, even after a point had been made.
Sometimes in life, you get what you wish for. I don't give a toss if we end up in the national league. It's the younger element that will have to go around with buckets and build the club back up again. You can’t do that by constantly being spoon fed and being negative.
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How many former players and managers have said something along these lines in the last 5 years. Can’t all be wrong can they? Makes you think doesn’t it
Said the same numerous times in the past and all you get fed by the happy clappers and SM is them bashing whomever was quoted saying they were a poor manager and don’t believe everything you read.
Dickov has said it, Ferguson (both Alex and Darren) have said it, Wellens has more or less said it… McCann and Moore jumped ship at the earliest opportunity. Mcsheffery, butler, and now Schofield were all cheap options with little experience because we can’t afford anyone decent or with experience.
Knoyle now saying it, and I’m sure it’s brought up by others in the past too.
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The majority of players when they get transferred from club to club not just this club, you only notice it when it’s closer to home. It helps the players when they join new clubs win the fans over, players have done when we’ve signed them,fact
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The majority of players when they get transferred from club to club not just this club, you only notice it when it’s closer to home. It helps the players when they join new clubs win the fans over, players have done when we’ve signed them,fact
Players make quotes when leaving but they don’t leave and basically slam their previous clubs ambition. That sort of thing only happens at DRFC.
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
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The majority of players when they get transferred from club to club not just this club, you only notice it when it’s closer to home. It helps the players when they join new clubs win the fans over, players have done when we’ve signed them,fact
Players make quotes when leaving but they don’t leave and basically slam their previous clubs ambition. That sort of thing only happens at DRFC.
Can’t say I’ve ever read a goodbye message from a player unrelated to donny to be honest
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Time to wake up people!
Have we got a peasants* revolt here another Wat Tyler ?
OFF WITH HIS HEAD I SAY :)
*The meaning of SWAIN is rustic, peasant; specifically : shepherd.
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
Don’t have to find something moan about when it’s right there staring you in the face. His statement is right there for us all to see.
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I think we do lack a bit of ambition. I like what we do off the pitch in terms of safety and business sense it should in theory help the team. It just hasn’t worked out yet. But you can’t help feel we get out competed by clubs who just want it more.
We are essentially ran as a non profit whereas other teams are the plaything for rich benefactors who can drive the ambition and push for success with their own money. It’s hard for us to generate that type of drive.
But also we, in theory, shouldn’t drop down the league when the benefactor decides he’s had enough or runs out of cash.
Only problem with that is we have dropped down the leagues just in a managed decline type way. A bit like the state of the country generally.
Big test for this sustainability ideal is can we do more than just bottom out and survive. Can we actually get promoted and compete with clubs who aren’t restrained by sustainability.
I think we can but it’ll always be impossible to look further than L1 without someone willing to give away their cash in pursuit of it. Even then it’s hard
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I think this forum. Not even 1% of the fanbase are the only people left now with any faith in this board. They've done a good job in terms of the business and actually made us an attractive thing to buy now and hopefully the time comes soon where the sustainable club we've become is passed on to someone who wants to put a bit in to take us forward.
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
Don’t have to find something moan about when it’s right there staring you in the face. His statement is right there for us all to see.
Well the moaning hasn’t just started today
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Whether you're a so-called 'happy clapper' or a 'Netto brigader', there's no denying these are gloomy days indeed for all Rovers fans. After the darkness of the late 90s, we enjoyed some truly terrific times and became a model club. We set the standard for others to follow. We were arguably one of the best brands outside the top flight - passion in the boardroom, on the pitch and in the stands. We were the envy of many other clubs of our size. Yet now, we're in serious danger of falling to another low. I've always tried to be positive. Always supported the leadership. Turned up, come rain or shine - along with my mates and three sons. All of us Rovers through and through. Among our group, there are eight season ticket holders - but despite that, we haven't gone to the last three home games. Now, that's never happened before. And there are literally 100s (if not more) like us. I've stuck loyal to the board (especially TB) but I can only see things getting worse. So, no matter which side of the fence you are, you're got to be just as concerned as me.
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
I dont think that's the case. The last two and half years have provided alot to be critical about. Should we have supported the club back I'm the mid 90s through thick and thin and not criticised the regime back then under Richardson?
I'm not saying the current Board are as bad as Richardsom but we've had a catalogue of bad results and performances and the direction of travel has been awful for two years
.. there's alot that's not been right evidenced by our comfortable relegation! And our board have presided over the lot of it and shown ZERO true ambition. Its all OK.we have a Sunday Market to be proud of!
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May 2019 - scintillating football, modest budget, robbed at the death.
January 2023 - 9 points off automatic promotion in lowest professional tier, 4 clean sheets all season, best player signed by club below us.
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I think we do lack a bit of ambition. I like what we do off the pitch in terms of safety and business sense it should in theory help the team. It just hasn’t worked out yet. But you can’t help feel we get out competed by clubs who just want it more.
We are essentially ran as a non profit whereas other teams are the plaything for rich benefactors who can drive the ambition and push for success with their own money. It’s hard for us to generate that type of drive.
But also we, in theory, shouldn’t drop down the league when the benefactor decides he’s had enough or runs out of cash.
Only problem with that is we have dropped down the leagues just in a managed decline type way. A bit like the state of the country generally.
Big test for this sustainability ideal is can we do more than just bottom out and survive. Can we actually get promoted and compete with clubs who aren’t restrained by sustainability.
I think we can but it’ll always be impossible to look further than L1 without someone willing to give away their cash in pursuit of it. Even then it’s hard
Great, sensible comments
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I think we do lack a bit of ambition. I like what we do off the pitch in terms of safety and business sense it should in theory help the team. It just hasn’t worked out yet. But you can’t help feel we get out competed by clubs who just want it more.
We are essentially ran as a non profit whereas other teams are the plaything for rich benefactors who can drive the ambition and push for success with their own money. It’s hard for us to generate that type of drive.
But also we, in theory, shouldn’t drop down the league when the benefactor decides he’s had enough or runs out of cash.
Only problem with that is we have dropped down the leagues just in a managed decline type way. A bit like the state of the country generally.
Big test for this sustainability ideal is can we do more than just bottom out and survive. Can we actually get promoted and compete with clubs who aren’t restrained by sustainability.
I think we can but it’ll always be impossible to look further than L1 without someone willing to give away their cash in pursuit of it. Even then it’s hard
Exactly this. Great Post
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
Oh dear, words fail me. It's there for all to see, but you still blame everyone else, so so sad.
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Amazing how people are laying into fans.
I think fans here are in general quite patient.
We’ve put up with a lot of regression these past few years to get to this point.
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
Don’t have to find something moan about when it’s right there staring you in the face. His statement is right there for us all to see.
Well the moaning hasn’t just started today
There you go again, you seem to love the word moaning, it gives you no credence at all in my opinion.
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May 2019 - scintillating football, modest budget, robbed at the death.
January 2023 - 9 points off automatic promotion in lowest professional tier, 4 clean sheets all season, best player signed by club below us.
You’ve spent the best part of two years slagging of our defence saying it’s up there with the worst ever and now you’re suggesting one of the main culprits is our best player
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Makes me laugh..
The people who aren’t the doom merchants are classed as happy clappers or wearing rose tinted glasses.
Maybe not everyone is desperate to find something to moan and whine about, some folk are never happy.
You can look back on this forum even when we’re successful we had plenty of folk who were desperate for something to happen so they could come on here and complain about it.
Under sod, under Moore, under Mccann we had plenty of the same people moaning then, they’ll never be happy
Don’t have to find something moan about when it’s right there staring you in the face. His statement is right there for us all to see.
Well the moaning hasn’t just started today
There you go again, you seem to love the word moaning, it gives you no credence at all in my opinion.
It’s a good job I couldn’t care less about your opinion then
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It seems with the loan signing of Todd Miller, Schofields ambition to sign quality players only seems to go as far as speaking to his very own agent.
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May 2019 - scintillating football, modest budget, robbed at the death.
January 2023 - 9 points off automatic promotion in lowest professional tier, 4 clean sheets all season, best player signed by club below us.
You’ve spent the best part of two years slagging of our defence saying it’s up there with the worst ever and now you’re suggesting one of the main culprits is our best player
You’re getting a little confused. We have a terrible defensive unit, and Knoyle has been probably our best player this season. Those two facts can exist at the same time.
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
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It could also be read as " I would have stayed if you payed me more" a final swipe at the club. Some players make their living by running contracts down.
In the statement from Copps he told them in December he wanted to go before any money terms were talked about.
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It could also be read as " I would have stayed if you payed me more" a final swipe at the club. Some players make their living by running contracts down.
In the statement from Copps he told them in December he wanted to go before any money terms were talked about.
As said elsewhere, maybe he'd made his mind up long before December. His agent will no doubt have marketed his client and would have been aware of our wage structure therefore knowing even if we offered improved terms, he could trump that elsewhere.
The agents will know the honeypots and no doubt those agents will be touting their players to Gillingham amongst others right now for example.
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Only in the conference years and before TV football on a big scale have I thought our support in the area has matched the club we have.
The modern fans look to me to be hangers on to nothing else but success self centred know little supporters.
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Realistically we are not going to be making much headway in terms of reconfiguring the squad in January.
Loans, yes. Permanent signings, much less so. It is either free agents but the most attractive will have been signed already before the window, or players running down the contract and a club trying to monetise the last six months, such as when we signed Fejiri or obviously Knoyle. We don’t regularly pay a fee and trying to buy a player under decent contract in January is going to be especially difficult.
I don’t see much permanent business, but could be wrong.
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CBcb, the last statement covers all bases, you can.t be wrong.
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Maybe better as “happy to be proved wrong”.
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Yep, I will go along with that, here's hoping.
Honestly think that Tykes tip about Joe Ackroyd is one that got away, but might be re visited at the end of the season, he is a good player with a lot of potential.
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Still 17 days of the window left don’t panic
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Realistically we are not going to be making much headway in terms of reconfiguring the squad in January.
Loans, yes. Permanent signings, much less so. It is either free agents but the most attractive will have been signed already before the window, or players running down the contract and a club trying to monetise the last six months, such as when we signed Fejiri or obviously Knoyle. We don’t regularly pay a fee and trying to buy a player under decent contract in January is going to be especially difficult.
I don’t see much permanent business, but could be wrong.
Agree with that and hope we do. Let's hope Coppinger is on that wave length. Its the sensible option and will be rewarded with more success than if we signed permanent now.
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Every permanent signing we made last Jan doesn’t get a game for us now. While I wouldn’t say we shouldn’t sign anyone that way I’d say clamouring for it and criticising loans isn’t right.
We did the summer window better this season with fewer loans meaning we have the space to use them in Jan. Before we’ve had all 5 loan players in summer then having 2-3 more in Jan means we’ve loans that don’t get in a match day squad.
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We missed a trick last window when Danny Johnson was available on loan, he went to Walsall and has scored twelve goals since then. He would have been a really good signing to go alongside George Miller.
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
Have to agree. We are, in a way, living through the ‘experiment’ Mk II
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
"...our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there"
Really? I think there's many who would disagree with that.
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I presume Knoyle equates the club showing ambition to the club giving him a lot more money for the service he provides.
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
"...our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there"
Really? I think there's many who would disagree with that.
So what is your view of 'our level', DBR?
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
Have to agree. We are, in a way, living through the ‘experiment’ Mk II
100% agree, BigH.
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The sustainable model they’ve achieved is pretty impressive. There won’t be any other clubs outside the premiership that are.
But unfortunately I fear there’s a reason for this. It doesn’t belong in football. A football club can never be sustainable.
Lack of investment and the team not playing or performing well, means a down turn in paying customers. Add a relegation poor form in the cup to the mix also running out of saleable assets it really is a recipe for disaster. It ends up becoming a vicious circle of spiralling down the football pyramid.
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
"...our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there"
Really? I think there's many who would disagree with that.
So what is your view of 'our level', DBR?
That's not the question. You said our level has not been tested. Was it tested through the Championship seasons?
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The sustainable model they’ve achieved is pretty impressive. There won’t be any other clubs outside the premiership that are.
But unfortunately I fear there’s a reason for this. It doesn’t belong in football. A football club can never be sustainable.
Lack of investment and the team not playing or performing well, means a down turn in paying customers. Add a relegation poor form in the cup to the mix also running out of saleable assets it really is a recipe for disaster. It ends up becoming a vicious circle of spiralling down the football pyramid.
I think it is called "managed decline", slowly but surely diminishing fans expectations so that as they reach the bottom of the barrel it just fizzles out.
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The sustainable model they’ve achieved is pretty impressive. There won’t be any other clubs outside the premiership that are.
But unfortunately I fear there’s a reason for this. It doesn’t belong in football. A football club can never be sustainable.
Lack of investment and the team not playing or performing well, means a down turn in paying customers. Add a relegation poor form in the cup to the mix also running out of saleable assets it really is a recipe for disaster. It ends up becoming a vicious circle of spiralling down the football pyramid.
Sorry, but on that explanation, I don't think you have a clear understanding of what sustainable means. It's about what or whom makes each club's business models sustainable and what would be the tipping point that would turn the model to unsustainable.
Much of what you refer to isn't about sustainability, it's about performance. Getting value for money out of what you pay for. In our case, for a number of reasons, we have underperformed recently.
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There may be some Premier League clubs that can claim to be Sustainable but I don't know of any Lower League clubs that have taken this direction and achieved it.
Ambition and Investing (gambling) on success by spending is what many supporters want to see from the club but Combining Sustainability with 'Finding our level' is also a gamble because our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there.
Although the much lauded club statement of last week claims we are now a sustainable club, that isn't actually true since sustainability is only attained when the operating Level is maintained by the finances generated on an ongoing basis, and since Sustainability is largely dependent on gate receipts & advertising revenue (which will depend upon how much exposure can be delivered by our attendances) it cannot be assumed that we have reached sustainability.
Whilst we continue struggling to attract players and support staff who have ambition to better their careers our direction of travel towards sustainability appears destined to be downwards.
"...our 'Level' hasn't ever been tested and can't be known until we get there"
Really? I think there's many who would disagree with that.
So what is your view of 'our level', DBR?
That's not the question. You said our level has not been tested. Was it tested through the Championship seasons?
Of course it wasn't. There were three multi-millionaires pumping money into the club to get and try to keep us there. So, DBR, bearing in mind that sustainability in the context of this conversation involves the club operating without financial support from its owner, do you believe its sustainability has been tested?
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Of course it's been tested!! Plus, we do have financial support and that's what makes it sustainable.
So, we had 3 benefactors. (Well the number is slightly irrelevant to this) What factors then made it unsustainable?
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I answered that in my post 53. So, you believe the club can be considered sustainable whilst its owners have to subsidise the club to cover the annual losses? I think there's many who would disagree with you.
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I answered that in my post 53. So, you believe the club can be considered sustainable whilst its owners have to subsidise the club to cover the annual losses? I think there's many who would disagree with you.
During those seasons, did we have a waiting list for season tickets?
Why, even at that level, were attendances dropping?
Why did it become unsustainable for JR. I don't recall JR putting a time limit on his contribution. (Don't infer that as a dig a JR)
I go back to his statement back yonder when he took over "I believe the town of Doncaster can support a Championship club) Revisiting that, all these years on, was he right? (I believed that back then)
As I've said before, what was achieved under JRs leadership and financial support from those inc Wetzel, Beresford, then TB and DW was exceptional. It wasn't the norm.
How did the TB and DW recognise the tipping point between sustainable and unsustainable and have to cut our cloth accordingly? Being sustainable gives us the opportunity to grow (or shrink) organically without artificially propping up the club financially and taking huge risks.
We are fortunate to have owners who provide us with that insurance policy. Being better at how we operate the model is another question.
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JR’s ambition for the club is surely what took us the championship. He made great play of it, advertised it at every opportunity and was seen as arrogant by other clubs, but there was a constant emphasis in everything he said that this was where he wanted to be. That was his Mission Statement.
For clubs like Wednesday, Ipswich, Portsmouth, and Sunderland, they make it very clear where they want to be. As a result it is that objective that people associate them with.
They are not just saying that we want to get to the play-offs, they have a headline ambition beyond that, a burning desire to get there.
So this eliminates fans moaning about what their Board wants for them. Any player thinking of joining the club knows what they are after too.
I would suggest that unless there is some statement of what a club is aiming for beyond simply getting into the League above, it’s fans and those players considering a career move, will probably conclude that the club is not too unhappy about where they are at the moment.
Baldwin only solid statement of the club’s ambitions was “A return to League One remains a priority and, while there will inevitably be ups and downs along the way, we believe we are giving ourselves the best chance of achieving our goals.”
I do feel that by qualifying the return to League 1 by “ups and downs” he is implying that even that is not necessarily something that is expected this season when really it should be. Even if it were achieved we were once in the 2nd automatic promotion position in League 1 in the season before last, so why are we not aiming for that again rather than merely occupying a place in League 1 in the shape of “a return to League1”.
So “Self-sustaining” is not the right message because putting this at the very heart of your business model will create the impression of an aversion to even a small degree of risk-taking. And to go further, you have implant a much more progressive objective in the vision of players and prospective players and fans. Self-sustenance is a fine economic principle, but as others have said, it couples with conservatism which in today’s football world and possibly in any business anywhere, it leads to decline.
Obviously I have not analysed every interview given by those within the club, but the immediate desire to be promoted and go on from there is not all that prominent in what they say. If Schofield has mentioned it, I must have missed it.
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The last point is the key one Baz.
Sustainable or not, the question remains why, when we have somewhere around the 5th best gates in L2 (and better than many in L1), and are the self-professed best club in the lower leagues at generating income from other sources, are we struggling to get in the play-off mix in League Two?
That points to serious failings in how those resources are managed and deployed, which many of us have been raising as a concern for a number of years. This shows very little sign of improving at the moment, in spite of the “re-structuring” that has taken place. Whether it will prove to be a mistake appointing from within and from a small pool of “known” contacts for this restructure will come out in the wash in the coming months and years.
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The last point is the key one Baz.
Sustainable or not, the question remains why, when we have somewhere around the 5th best gates in L2 (and better than many in L1), and are the self-professed best club in the lower leagues at generating income from other sources, are we struggling to get in the play-off mix in League Two?
That points to serious failings in how those resources are managed and deployed, which many of us have been raising as a concern for a number of years. This shows very little sign of improving at the moment, in spite of the “re-structuring” that has taken place. Whether it will prove to be a mistake appointing from within and from a small pool of “known” contacts for this restructure will come out in the wash in the coming months and years.
I wouldn't disagree with alot of what you've said but is that cause to destroy what we have in the hope it could be replaced by something better?
The restructuring hasn't had time to show whether it's going to be more successful. Going down the HoF route is a big shift from where we were, which the vast majority agreed, too much was depending one the manager who determined the transfer policy and us having to chop and change with every manager that came in. That's where alot of our wastage has been accounted for.
The jury is still out so it's not appropriate to be campaigning for a death sentence just yet.
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How much ambition did Knoyle show while he was here? very little in my opinion, far less than good non league full backs like Marples and Tim Ryan showed when we were non league not even in the same class.
We had far better full backs, with far more ability and all round game than knoyle when we were a non league side. He coukldn't lace Marples and tim Ryan's boots for ability for defending pace or effort.
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I think that you can add commitment to that as well Brian.
Neither of those two ever shirked a tackle and would have run through a brick wall for the team.
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The last point is the key one Baz.
Sustainable or not, the question remains why, when we have somewhere around the 5th best gates in L2 (and better than many in L1), and are the self-professed best club in the lower leagues at generating income from other sources, are we struggling to get in the play-off mix in League Two?
That points to serious failings in how those resources are managed and deployed, which many of us have been raising as a concern for a number of years. This shows very little sign of improving at the moment, in spite of the “re-structuring” that has taken place. Whether it will prove to be a mistake appointing from within and from a small pool of “known” contacts for this restructure will come out in the wash in the coming months and years.
This is where I’m at. If everything about our business model is true, and I believe it is, why are we underperforming so badly. My hope is we are recovering from the shambles of 2021/22 season and we’ll get our ducks in a row soon.
Obviously question marks around how 2021/22 was allowed to happen but the club have reacted when the problems become obvious. Just need the people who are paid to run the club (off and on the pitch) to do a good job and we should be looking upwards
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I know you can't buy yourself out of trouble performance wise. No guarantees that buying expensive players will equal more wins. And if you spend outside your means you can get into all sorts of financial trouble!
As a club we always err on the side of caution though, and when we're playing bad we don't quickly run to the cheque book. However, if the club are serious about success on the pitch they have to spend some decent money now and then to get the talent required to climb the leagues.
I feel like the club are more proud of being sustainable then being successful. We're certainly not ambitious anymore in my opinion.
The fair-weather fan isn't going to keep going to games when decent players leave, aren't replaced, and our performances are poor. And as much as some of you might scoff at the importance of those types of fans - they are important. The money they spend account for a big chunk of the money that keeps the club afloat. All they care about is watching good football with good results. If that doesn't happen, then the club's lauded sustainability shibboleth goes with it!
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I answered that in my post 53. So, you believe the club can be considered sustainable whilst its owners have to subsidise the club to cover the annual losses? I think there's many who would disagree with you.
During those seasons, did we have a waiting list for season tickets?
Why, even at that level, were attendances dropping?
Why did it become unsustainable for JR. I don't recall JR putting a time limit on his contribution. (Don't infer that as a dig a JR)
I go back to his statement back yonder when he took over "I believe the town of Doncaster can support a Championship club) Revisiting that, all these years on, was he right? (I believed that back then)
As I've said before, what was achieved under JRs leadership and financial support from those inc Wetzel, Beresford, then TB and DW was exceptional. It wasn't the norm.
How did the TB and DW recognise the tipping point between sustainable and unsustainable and have to cut our cloth accordingly? Being sustainable gives us the opportunity to grow (or shrink) organically without artificially propping up the club financially and taking huge risks.
We are fortunate to have owners who provide us with that insurance policy. Being better at how we operate the model is another question.
I'm guessing, but the tipping point seemed to come when the Experiment was supposed to be a low cost marvel but left us with relegation and a wage bill pushing £10 million.
I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall at the board meetings as that disaster panned out.