Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: ravenrover on January 16, 2023, 01:30:25 pm

Title: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 16, 2023, 01:30:25 pm
Why is this man not being prosecuted for tax evasion?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 16, 2023, 01:42:39 pm
Why is this man not being prosecuted for tax evasion?

Lester Piggot was jailed for doing the exact same thing
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 16, 2023, 01:54:29 pm
Zahawi's spokesman said there had been a "dispute" over whether Zahawi owed the tax and now he's paid up several million.

Translation: Zahawi tried evading tax. He got caught and has had to cough up.

Now, the ordinary person in the street might fairly be able to claim that they didn't understand the tax laws, and had made an honest mistake. Although that's not a legal defence and they could still serve time for it.

But get this. While Zahawi has been in a "dispute" with the Revenue, he was the f**king Chancellor of the Exchequer! He was in charge of the laws that govern tax.

Get them put. The lot of them. Biggest bunch of spivs and crooks that have ever ascended the greasy pole.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: mugnapper on January 16, 2023, 02:09:31 pm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadhim-zahawi-tax-hmrc-investigation-b2262565.html
I had to Google what he'd been up to.
Oddly, the only newspapers that seem to have deemed this newsworthy are the Guardian and Independent.
Must have slipped past the rest of them.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 16, 2023, 03:04:15 pm
All quiet on the Beeb front on this one along with the Braverman "holocaust" incident mmmmm!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 16, 2023, 04:24:28 pm
Why is this man not being prosecuted for tax evasion?

I suggest FPTP is to blame . Johnson got 80 seat majority with 43 % of those that bothered to vote

With PR he would have had 280 seats roughly out of 650 so have 370 potential voters against what he was doing.

He wouldn't have got away with the escapades ( I will call them that ) and Patel , Jenrick   Raab and Zahawi may have still done what they have but Johnson and Truss and latterly Sunak would not have been able to defend them by having investigations and then saying " they have said sorry so we are moving on" and or "they have said sorry and paid back what they mistakenly withheld from the Taxman so that's time to move on ". And the sad thing is we can do f*** all about it

This is why I rarely post now on off topic or Twitter. I'm whistling into a huge void of apathy. 33 % of people won't vote in next Election and probably 75 % of Electorate have been deprived of such news by a supposedly anti Tory BBC as well as Sky News not mentioning it to my knowledge
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 16, 2023, 04:32:31 pm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadhim-zahawi-tax-hmrc-investigation-b2262565.html
I had to Google what he'd been up to.
Oddly, the only newspapers that seem to have deemed this newsworthy are the Guardian and Independent.
Must have slipped past the rest of them.

It also missed the Papers and TV news when he was caught and confessed to Heating his Horse Stables and claiming on his expenses for it

He said sorry and made the excuse he had mixed up the 2 separate meters presumably (who knows) by putting all the wires into the House meter which he COULD claim on expenses

The cheeky B*****d gets in nearly every Interview " I arrived in UK without a word of English and look at me now" Presumably his Maths was already massively advanced for his age

Skanky  Manky B*****d and nothing can be done
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: tommy toes on January 16, 2023, 05:04:38 pm
I've always said that Zahawi was the sleazeist of the lot of em.
The bloke is beneath contempt.
A total f***ing disgrace. I get angry just thinking about the horrible sh**house.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2023, 05:10:54 pm
Zahawi's spokesman said there had been a "dispute" over whether Zahawi owed the tax and now he's paid up several million.

Translation: Zahawi tried evading tax. He got caught and has had to cough up.

Now, the ordinary person in the street might fairly be able to claim that they didn't understand the tax laws, and had made an honest mistake. Although that's not a legal defence and they could still serve time for it.

But get this. While Zahawi has been in a "dispute" with the Revenue, he was the f**king Chancellor of the Exchequer! He was in charge of the laws that govern tax.

Get them put. The lot of them. Biggest bunch of spivs and crooks that have ever ascended the greasy pole.

If he has done wrong he should face a punishment.
From the tone of your post bst, I’m thinking that you are suggesting they are all the same.  :)
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: tommy toes on January 16, 2023, 08:08:42 pm
Hound
Off the top of me head, here's a list of some recent cabinet members:

Zahawi
Gove
Hancock
Patel
Schapps
Braverman
Williamson
Truss
Jenrick
Raab
Kwarteng
Some of them are dishonest at best, some of them useless, some bullies and in Raab's case, a thick as pudding bully.
So yes they all need kicking out. The lot of em, including those that are shocking omissions on my part.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2023, 08:26:01 pm
Tommy, you won’t find an argument from me on that list matey.
I was just asking bst a question as he seems to suggest that the whole lot of MPs are the same, he might just mean the Tory ones I suppose.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 16, 2023, 09:25:11 pm
''Suella Braverman confronted by Holocaust survivor over 'invasion' rhetoric''

Published 1 day ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64282961

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 16, 2023, 09:31:00 pm
Yes Tommytoes

Raab appears totally out of his depth - even when " the Sea was closed"

He could take Simon Cadells part as hapless Maplins Camp manager Jeffery Fairbrother if they bring back Hi de hi before or better still after he loses his Seat in next Election
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: mugnapper on January 16, 2023, 10:18:09 pm
Yes Tommytoes

Raab appears totally out of his depth - even when " the Sea was closed"

He could take Simon Cadells part as hapless Maplins Camp manager Jeffery Fairbrother if they bring back Hi de hi before or better still after he loses his Seat in next Election
One for the kids there Wolfman!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 17, 2023, 06:38:50 am
Yes agreed .... Its also why Ive never compared Sunak to Vince van Gopher
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 17, 2023, 07:58:42 am
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadhim-zahawi-tax-hmrc-investigation-b2262565.html
I had to Google what he'd been up to.
Oddly, the only newspapers that seem to have deemed this newsworthy are the Guardian and Independent.
Must have slipped past the rest of them.
It's because the conservative supporting press i.e. the sun, daily mail, daily express, telegraph, times and are basically the oligarchs paper. My suggestion would be don't buy or read it especially the s*n
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 17, 2023, 08:04:36 am
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadhim-zahawi-tax-hmrc-investigation-b2262565.html
I had to Google what he'd been up to.
Oddly, the only newspapers that seem to have deemed this newsworthy are the Guardian and Independent.
Must have slipped past the rest of them.

It also missed the Papers and TV news when he was caught and confessed to Heating his Horse Stables and claiming on his expenses for it

He said sorry and made the excuse he had mixed up the 2 separate meters presumably (who knows) by putting all the wires into the House meter which he COULD claim on expenses

The cheeky B*****d gets in nearly every Interview " I arrived in UK without a word of English and look at me now" Presumably his Maths was already massively advanced for his age

Skanky  Manky B*****d and nothing can be done
what some people don't realise is the Main stream media and conservative party such as their influence over the latter on what they report. If you do enough research in understanding what the trade unions are saying, double down news, left foot forward etc the main political parties are pulling the wool over peoples eyes
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 20, 2023, 05:29:33 pm
Suggestions now that on top of his 3.5m tax payment he has also had to pay a 1.5m penalty to HMRC. And this man was Chancellor at the time
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 20, 2023, 05:47:56 pm
If he does have a fine to pay then it is good that it will apply to an MP and he gets no favours.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 20, 2023, 05:57:04 pm
If he does have a fine to pay then it is good that it will apply to an MP and he gets no favours.

Would that also apply to Sunak not wearing a seatbelt?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 20, 2023, 05:59:13 pm
Yes, it should.
Why would you ask that specific question of me?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 20, 2023, 06:13:18 pm
If he does have a fine to pay then it is good that it will apply to an MP and he gets no favours.

If you or I had done what he had done then we would be looking at a jail sentence - Lester Piggott got 3 years. He declared the wrong amount of tax for years and was forced to pay it after an investigation - but he gets no favours!!! Get out of here...

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/rip-lester-piggott-champion-jockey-and-tax-cheat
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 20, 2023, 06:19:14 pm
It's not really about the law. It's about the morality. A t**t like this, fiddling his taxes while lecturing the rest of us on fiscal rectitude, and campaigning for limiting public sector wages because we can't afford it.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 20, 2023, 06:49:29 pm
Yes, it should.
Why would you ask that specific question of me?

Because it’s something you would ask if it were Labour
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 20, 2023, 06:55:54 pm
Yes, it should.
Why would you ask that specific question of me?

Because it’s something you would ask if it were Labour

So we are all the same then.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 20, 2023, 08:08:27 pm
Since 2013 Zahawi has been threatening lawyers and journalists with court action if they reported on his tax affairs as he claimed he had done nothing wrong.

But he gets no favours...

https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1616482094448013313
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 20, 2023, 08:21:34 pm
Lester Piggott - £2.8m - three years in the nick.

Boris Becker - £2.5m - 2½ years in the nick.

Nadhim Zadhawi - £3.7m - forced to pay up, retains government office and personal freedom.

https://twitter.com/Britain_People/status/1616239838109261827
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 20, 2023, 08:28:49 pm
The whole backstory by the guy whose tweet you post Wilts is breathtaking.

https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1616030741225246720?s=20&t=ct8pWkQ5L0KeSv8r7Ryoyw

Yet another rich Tory trying to frighten off investigations into their behaviour by use of legal threats.

What a f**king bunch. Proper Banana Republic stuff.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 20, 2023, 09:31:12 pm
And their donors, it's all about maintaining the status quo.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: tommy toes on January 20, 2023, 10:11:54 pm
Zahawi, if he had an ounce of decency, would resign and disappear from public office.
But like Johnson et al before him, I bet he won't.
In which case Sunak should sack him, wouldn't bet on that though.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 20, 2023, 10:19:22 pm
Maybe it's time the tax office went for a deeper dive through the top 1%
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 05:55:37 am
Hound
Off the top of me head, here's a list of some recent cabinet members:

Zahawi
Gove
Hancock
Patel
Schapps
Braverman
Williamson
Truss
Jenrick
Raab
Kwarteng
Some of them are dishonest at best, some of them useless, some bullies and in Raab's case, a thick as pudding bully.
So yes they all need kicking out. The lot of em, including those that are shocking omissions on my part.

Grayling is pretty high on the list of incompetents, further to that johnson tried to subvert the security committee and stick him in as chair to delay the release of the committees Russia Report, breath taking arrogance from the then chief of the fiefdom.

''A furious Downing Street stripped the Conservative whip from Lewis, an MP since 1997, who hit back by saying that No 10 had made “an improper request” in trying to get him to support Grayling for the position.

Lewis then led the publication of the long-awaited Russia report, which revealed that British government and intelligence agencies failed to conduct any proper assessment of Kremlin attempts to interfere with the 2016 Brexit referendum''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/28/chris-grayling-resigns-from

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 21, 2023, 08:27:17 am
Syd, why is a two years old article about Grayling relevant on a thread about Zahawi.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 09:11:39 am
Just a thought TT we could make a Sticky of the list along with all with their misdemeanours and failures. We may have to see if the forum can handle that amount of data though.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 21, 2023, 10:16:01 am
There actually is in circulation a leaked listing (up to the point of the leak) which the Tory Whips used to keep the Maps voting the "right way"

It documented their main faults that the Whips could threaten them with though they were not things like " thick as Pudding" but more factual or believed by them to be close enough to facts

Sure someone could find that as I'm off for a Hot Air Fryer rather than adding more hot air on here
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 21, 2023, 10:19:10 am
The way this generation of Tories simply disregard the truth is really something to see.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64358025

Zahawi has very much NOT been transparent. His lawyers repeatedly tried to frighten off someone investigating Zahawi's taxes, by lying that Zahawi had paid all the tax he owed, and threatening legal action if the investigator said anything to the contrary.

The man is a disgrace. A rich, powerful cheat, liar and attempted bully. Sums up this generation of Tories.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 10:28:40 am
It's sunak job to chuck him out if he won't go, so much for integrity, tax avoidance is a family affair in the tory party.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 21, 2023, 10:36:32 am
It's sunak job to chuck him out if he won't go, so much for integrity, tax avoidance is a family affair in the tory party.

Sunak is weak, and that goes against the “Mr Nice Gut” image he tries to portray, I had him sussed the first time he did those nightly covid briefings, everything about him is false
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 10:48:39 am
If the tory party were a private company they would have been charged with racketeering and conspiracy by now.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 21, 2023, 02:43:02 pm
Oh dear.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64360260

His defence appears to be that his father gave him the start up capital to set up YouGov, and as a result, the You Gov shares were placed in the Balshore Investments offshore trust.

This tweet and the 3-4 subsequent ones from a tax Investigator who has delved deep into this issue calls that out as direct lie.

https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1616030751790878720?s=20&t=NfRqN0cMqYsn1abV0tXbxg

Zahawi has today said "I have never set up an offshore structure, including Balshore Investments, and that I am not the beneficiary of Balshore Investments."

Which is strange.

Because the core of this issue is that in 2018, Balshore sold its stake in YouGov for £26m. Because Balshore was an overseas fund, it paid no capital gains tax (which would have been £3.7m in the UK) on that.

And this is where the net closes in. Balshore then immediately made a "loan" to Zahawi.

Have a guess how much.




No go on.



Have a guess.



Yep. £26m.

He paid no tax on that.

And it is this that the HMRC have fingered him for. He's been told to pay the full amount of CGT, plus a fine of 30% of that amount because he clearly rode roughshod over the rules.

Politically he's a dead man walking. A tax fraud and a liar. That statement he's just made can be ripped apart by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the case. If Sunak has any political instincts, he will hand him the pearl handled revolver today. Otherwise, this is a gift for Labour.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 21, 2023, 02:49:57 pm
And THIS is how much of a liar and a fraud he is.

He was being investigated over this last summer by HMRC, when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer.

At that time, an investigator, not connected to the case, but publishing a blog in the public interest, accused him of not paying what he owed. Zahawi's lawyers sent him a threatening letter, accusing him of libel and saying Zahawi had paid all his taxes. Even though Zahawi himself knew at the time that HMRC were investigating a clear cut case of him not paying his taxes.

What a poster boy for this generation of Tory leaders. See what you can get away with. If anyone tries stopping you, threaten them with legal action and financial ruin, then when you get caught, plead innocence and ignorance.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 21, 2023, 03:06:23 pm
Unchaste (anag.)
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 09:20:45 pm
And sent sent lots of others similar threatening letters to try and keep it under wraps ..............
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 10:00:03 pm
From the twitter feed this is so important in the whole seedy affair:

Dan Deidle

''This morning I wrote to the Solicitors’ Regulatory Authority, asking them to end the practice of solicitors sending libel letters demanding that allegations of wrongdoing are retracted, but insisting that the letters are confidential and cannot be published, or even mentioned.

This follows the letters I received from Osborne Clarke, acting for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. More context here, and legal background to the bogus “confidentiality” claims here''

https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2022/07/25/sra/

Lawyers knowing sending out false information on behalf of their clients.

Edited:

Further down in the back story a win .................

''29 November 2022. A great response from the SRA. They issue a warning for solicitors to stop sending libel letters which falsely claim to be confidential, and say they can’t be published. It’s not a change in practice, it’s a statement of what has always been the case – lawyers can’t lie''

(SRA) Solicitors Regulation Authority

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 10:57:27 pm
And the next question: did he or his government mislead parliament
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2023, 11:15:20 pm
''Nadhim Zahawi has financial ties to Balshore Investments and Berkford Investments, which operate from a lawyers’ office in Gibraltar. He does not declare a connection to either company on the MPs’ register of interests.

Balshore Investments holds shares worth over £20m in YouGov, the polling firm co-founded by Zahawi in 2000. YouGov company documents have referred to Balshore as “the family trust of Nadhim Zahawi’s family”.

Under parliamentary rules MPs have to declare any shareholding valued at more than £70,000, including those owned through a trust. The Stratford-upon-Avon MP did not answer questions over whether he was a beneficiary of a trust and said that everything had been correctly declared in the MPs’ register of interests''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/04/tory-mp-nadhim-zahawi-tax-haven-balshore-berkford-investments-gibraltar

This was published Jan 4 2017

DD

''2 December 2022. Given the clear statement from the SRA, I refer Zahawi’s lawyers, Osborne Clarke, to the SRA. Lying and bullying should have consequences''

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 01:24:50 am
Zahawi's line is that the YG shares in Balshore actually belonged to his father.

Which could be believed if it weren't for the fact that the moment Balshore sold the YG shares for £26m in 2018, Balshore then loaned  Zahawi £26m to buy property.

You might just about grit your teeth and accept that as being within the letter of the law. But it is dodgy as f**k. And HMRC have cleared decided that it was a tax fiddle. They've decided Zahawi owned the shares in reality, and benefited from them when they were sold. That's why they have hit him with a tax bill. And a fine for tax dodging.

He hasn't got a chance of surviving this as a Cabinet Minister. Like I said earlier, a sharp PM would boot him out now.

But of course, Sunak's family has previous on offshore tax haven investments, so perhaps he's instinctively on Zahawi's side? Or shitting himself that when Zahawi has gone, the spotlight might turn back on him and his wife.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 01:28:57 am
By the way, the reason Zahawi is politically dead in the water is that his best argument today is that his tax mistake was "careless rather than deliberate".

Not sure who he expects to believe that.  He "carelessly" didn't realise that he'd set up a mechanism to evade paying £4m tax?

If that really is the best defence he can think of, he's going to get savaged.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 01:36:38 am
Banana Republic Part 78.

The Sunday Times has a scoop that Johnson got a loan of £800k in late 2020 that he has never reported in the Parliamentary records.

It was set up by a wealthy Tory donor.

Who, a few weeks later, was appointed by Johnson as Chair of the BBC.

Goebbels used to say, "If you're going to lie, lie big." That seems to be the philosophy of the top of the Tory party. If you're going to scam the system, do it big and do it often. 30% of the electorate will support you no matter how bent you are.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 22, 2023, 02:13:39 am
Yep read that one earlier, the tories are writing labour's script for the next election.

plus javid is flying kites about payments to visit a gp or hospital ..............
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 22, 2023, 09:45:12 am
HMRC use the term careless instead of negligent.
Anyone thinking he will resign or be sacked I would advise not to hold their breath.
The Foreign Sec comes on telly with the old Fawlty Towers line " I know noooothing" so much for preparing in advance or as IDS said just dropping a dead bat on it
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 22, 2023, 11:14:47 am
Zahawi in July 2022: I am being "smeared" by those who say HMRC are looking into me. I am "not aware of this."

Zahawi in Jan 2023: in fact, HMRC were investigating my tax affairs and I have settled my dispute with them.

So much for Sunak's promise to bring 'integrity and accountability' into his government.

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1617089236880035840
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 22, 2023, 11:27:54 am
HMRC use the term careless instead of negligent.
Anyone thinkibg he will resign or be sacked I would advise not to hold their breath.
The Foreign Sec comrs on telly with the old Fawlty Towers line " I know noooothing" so much preparing in advance or as IDS said just dropping a dead bat on it

I just wonder how Politics got so rotten

Not that many years ago the men in grey suits would have pounced and said to Zahawi " its time to go for the sake of the Party"

These days they don't seem to care at all about the so called "optics"
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 22, 2023, 11:58:21 am
Oh deary deary me!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 12:01:50 pm
I'm still shaking my head at how Zahawi thinks that "I was just careless" defence will stand.

"Sorry that, when I was involved in a process that evaded £3.7m in tax payments through a convoluted process, I didn't think to check with a reputable tax accountant or with HMRC whether what I was doing was legal.  That was just careless of me. But hey! Who hasn't made a careless mistake over £3.7m of unpaid tax?"
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: idler on January 22, 2023, 12:04:43 pm
All of these politicians always make the silly mistakes in their favour though. None of them ever say well I had to claim back x amount that I mistakenly paid without realising.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 12:26:41 pm
On the subject of "carelessness", the HMRC (which Zahawi was in charge of while this was going on) has a formal definition.

"“Careless” means a failure to take reasonable care in relation to your tax affairs.

Carelessness can be likened to the longstanding concept in general law of “negligence”.

In the 1856 case of Blyth v Birmingham Waterworks Co, Baron Alderson said

Negligence is the omission to do something which a reasonable man, guided upon those considerations which ordinarily regulate the conduct of human affairs, would do, or doing something which a prudent and reasonable man would not do. The defendants might be liable for negligence, if, unintentionally, they omitted to do that which a prudent and reasonable person would have done, or did that which a person taking reasonable care would not have done.

This is not a question of whether or not the person knew about an inaccuracy in a return or document or their failure to comply with an obligation. If they did that would be deliberate. It is simply a question of examining what the person did or failed to do and asking whether a prudent and reasonable person taking reasonable care would have done that or failed to do that in those circumstances."


Zahawi is admitting that he didn't do what a "prudent and reasonable person" would do over this.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: i_ateallthepies on January 22, 2023, 01:50:28 pm
It is striking, the absence of comment on this particular matter from certain regular contributors on this forum.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 22, 2023, 03:51:26 pm
I wouldn’t believe anything Zahawi says.

https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1349116738454122499?s=46&t=RXbTkX87KGB1dcIq2x20bg

“We have no plans to introduce vaccine passports”
“Can we hold you to that?”
“Yes you can Claire”

Discriminatory and illiberal vaccine passports later introduced whilst he was head of vaccine deployment.

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 22, 2023, 04:08:57 pm
It is striking, the absence of comment on this particular matter from certain regular contributors on this forum.

Such as?

It’s a fast moving political story. I’m normally behind other posters on these that doesn’t make me pro-tax evasion for not having anything further to add yet!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 04:10:32 pm
Just a quick note Nc, because I know you like to make sure you're getting info from balanced sources.

I assume you know who this Claire Fox is that you're reading from? An ex top brass in the UK Communist Party who went so far to the Left, she disappeared and returned on the far Right as a libertarian populist.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 22, 2023, 04:16:28 pm
Just a quick note Nc, because I know you like to make sure you're getting info from balanced sources.

I assume you know who this Claire Fox is that you're reading from? An ex top brass in the UK Communist Party who went so far to the Left, she disappeared and returned on the far Right as a libertarian populist.

What does that have to with that Twitter encounter? I’m highlighting Zahawi’s previous dishonesty
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 04:23:55 pm
I know. I'm just pointing out that a lot of what you post has origins in far-right sources. I'm not certain you realise that.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2023, 04:26:37 pm
For what it's worth, I do of course agree that Zahawi is untrustworthy. But that's a really bad example. It's a theme now being dusted down by far right libertarians in light of the current scandal to try to claim some points for them.

You're doing the work for them.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 22, 2023, 04:36:30 pm
I didn’t realise, I just remembered it from the debate at that time. Corbyn was against the passports too, not everything is a binary left v right issue.

But anyway that’s not the topic of discussion and I didn’t have any other examples.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 22, 2023, 04:43:58 pm
It is striking, the absence of comment on this particular matter from certain regular contributors on this forum.
Similar comment on a thread about Labours attitude to women, how odd
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 22, 2023, 04:50:17 pm
I wouldn’t believe anything Zahawi says.

https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1349116738454122499?s=46&t=RXbTkX87KGB1dcIq2x20bg

“We have no plans to introduce vaccine passports”
“Can we hold you to that?”
“Yes you can Claire”

Discriminatory and illiberal vaccine passports later introduced whilst he was head of vaccine deployment.




My opinion of Zahawi is quite clear in the posts above - but that's wrong and false.

Vaccine passports were never issued in the UK. Some places of mass entertainment were restricted. Essential services and retail were always open to anyone (rightly or wrongly).

And he explains fully here why he changed his mind:

https://www.zahawi.com/parliament/covid-vaccine-passports

Has Claire Fox changed her mind on the support of IRA bombings btw?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 22, 2023, 05:05:48 pm
Yep and this has further eroded my opinion of him.

Has he paid all his outstanding tax and the penalty?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 22, 2023, 06:25:53 pm
Yep and this has further eroded my opinion of him.

Has he paid all his outstanding tax and the penalty?

We all want to know that. He says he has, but given he refuses to publish what it is he owes and owns, we have no idea.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 22, 2023, 06:37:43 pm
Yep and this has further eroded my opinion of him.

Has he paid all his outstanding tax and the penalty?

We all want to know that. He says he has, but given he refuses to publish what it is he owes and owns, we have no idea.

Interesting.

Also interesting that yougov have done a poll on Sunak’s seatbelt (yawn) but not Zahawi
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 22, 2023, 09:13:38 pm
My guess is Sunak wants this to run, takes the attention away from his and his wifes financial affairs. Wasn't he supposed to publish his own tax details before Christmas?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 22, 2023, 09:55:20 pm
''Is this the UK's most important fireball?'' or is it the tory party?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-leicestershire-64223820
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on January 23, 2023, 07:19:24 am
The fair bit, it's actually very easy to get in this position on tax because it's quite open to interpretation in a lot of areas.  I've seen very complex tax case tribunals a few times and HMRC are not always correct, so I can see exactly how it happens.  Careless is quite a low level issue really and happens frequently.  These things are highly complex, way more than I ever realised and morr than most will realise.

But I lose the sense of fairness given the guy became chancellor. At that point he could (as many businesses do) pay it first then debate it and he should in my view step down and simply say he made the wrong call.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 23, 2023, 11:24:31 am
How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 23, 2023, 11:56:33 am
Not forgetting all the legal threats
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 23, 2023, 12:46:36 pm
This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 23, 2023, 12:53:01 pm
Here's a thing by the way.

HMRC has a maximum fine of 30% for "Carelessness" (read: "Negligence")

But, their own policy is to reduce those fines if the culprit is helpful, including, fessing up voluntarily before HMRC find out and being open and honest in how they deal with the investigation.

Zahawi appears to have received a fine of 30%. (He owed around £3.75m in tax but apparently has paid a total of about £5m to HMRC. The difference is about 30% of the £3.75m.)

But, Zahawi claims.

1) That his mistake was "carelessness"
and
2) That he has been open and transparent with HMRC all through their investigation.

It is very difficult to reconcile all that.

If you're going to lie, the first rule is that the lie needs to be credible. Zahawi's story here falls at the first fence.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 23, 2023, 02:37:45 pm
He's a duplicitous proven liar
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on January 23, 2023, 03:14:40 pm
How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.



Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 23, 2023, 04:10:54 pm
BFYP

I've been running my business 20 years. Never had so much as a sniff of a problem from HMRC, either over the business or over my own taxes. But then we don't play clever f**ker games trying to avoid taxation.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: tyke1962 on January 23, 2023, 04:38:41 pm
How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.



Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).


He knows full well what he's done because his sense of entitlement believes taxes aren't for people of his rank they are for the likes of you and me .

That's the crux of the matter and that's the culture running through this band of charlatans currently in government .

If you can't see that then there's very little left to be said .
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Colemans Left Hook on January 23, 2023, 07:09:45 pm
How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.



Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).


He knows full well what he's done because his sense of entitlement believes taxes aren't for people of his rank they are for the likes of you and me .

That's the crux of the matter and that's the culture running through this band of charlatans currently in government .

If you can't see that then there's very little left to be said .

exactly in God trusts "we trust" to save us paying tax    - 
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 23, 2023, 07:57:44 pm
How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.



Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).

The answer to my question is none then pud?

Careless haha, careless with the truth.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Branton Red on January 23, 2023, 09:56:20 pm

The answer to my question is none then pud?

Careless haha, careless with the truth.
[/quote]

Just a note on what 'careless' means to HMRC in relation to tax: -

"Careless means a failure to take reasonable care in relation to your tax affairs. Carelessness can be likened to the longstanding concept in general law of negligence."

More detail here for anyone interested www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/compliance-handbook/ch53400

For a senior politician to be "careless" in relation to their tax affairs and hence "negligent" esp given the sums involved here is unforgivable. Even more so for an ex Channcellor of the Exchequer.

Quite why the PM hasn't dismissed him already is beyond comprehension.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: danumdon on January 23, 2023, 10:21:00 pm
BFYP

I've been running my business 20 years. Never had so much as a sniff of a problem from HMRC, either over the business or over my own taxes. But then we don't play clever f**ker games trying to avoid taxation.

Agree 100%with this, it only ever seems to be people like Zahawi who seem to have "problems" with carelessness over their tax affairs.

The rest of us seem to be able to get it right very much all the time. Leads one to conclude the fella is duplicitous and not very good at it too boot. Which is remarkable when you think of all the experienced old pro's in the House he could of taken advice from !!

Really needs to step down and disappear disgracefully.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 24, 2023, 06:39:05 am
How many cases do you know of where offshore trusts were set up with deliberate intensions of using them for tax evasion and then do exactly that get interpreted as careless?

Sunak appears to disagree with your take on the situation pud.

''Zahawi says 'I'm confident I acted properly throughout' as he welcomes inquiry into tax settlement''

so why all the lies?

Avoidance as opposed to evasion, but loads it happens all over the place. Legal routes are there and valid to be used.

The issue is not the use of offshore elements it's the blatant attempt to conceal and cover it up that's the problem for me.  Rules are there to be adhered to fully.

This from an ex-Tory MP gets to the core of things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KHarveyProctor/status/1617137350278250496

Zahawi has a cepted a fine, apparently of upwards of £1m from HMRC.

He has ACCEPTED it. Therefore he has admitted guilt. He has accepted that he misled HMRC over £3.75m of taxes that he owed.

He HAS to resign.



Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid).


He knows full well what he's done because his sense of entitlement believes taxes aren't for people of his rank they are for the likes of you and me .

That's the crux of the matter and that's the culture running through this band of charlatans currently in government .

If you can't see that then there's very little left to be said .

Well put Tyke. The opening paragraph says it all

I still cannot believe that Thatchers days came to an end when the "people" took to the Streets both physically and metaphorically over The Poll Tax

At the time it WAS a very big deal but the direction politics has gone (or more likely has been taken) it would today barely get a mention alongside some of the issues that seem to appear daily
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 24, 2023, 07:33:32 am
And

''Not so sure that I agree.  I do think he should resign because that is what he's attempted to do here in my view.  But if every business or person who fell foul of a breach like this resigned there'd not be many professionals left, it's a minefield and easy to fall in to (thankfully something I can avoid)''

If this is the case pud and I'm happy to take your words on it then it's high time the Tax office put the cleaners through the professional business classes as they are not paying their share.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: wilts rover on January 24, 2023, 07:34:05 am
You are 23 (twenty-three) times more likely to be prosecuted for benefit fraund than tax crime. Even though tax fraud and error costs an estimated £20bn a year compared to £2bn in benefit fraud and error.

This is a  government of the wealthy run on behalf of the super-rich determined to get the poor to pay for their lifestyles.

https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1617781231625830401

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1617609190989787137
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 24, 2023, 09:18:45 am
Absolute car crash.

https://www.itv.com/watch/news/nobody-knows-precisely-what-happened-minister-grilled-over-zahawi-tax-issue/jy25xnf

This is what happens to Governments when they reach the end. They lose the will to even put on a show of being in control.

Think about it. Someone in the Tory HQ has said, "OK, here's the line. 'Sunak has done the right thing by ordering an inquiry because no-one knows what happened .'" And it's never dawned on anyone to say, "Err, but presumably Zahawi knows what happened," and then follow the logic of where that leads to.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 24, 2023, 09:52:12 am
And Philp using answers that started " I believe that to be true" or " Yes , I think that is true "

What a great get out. If he knows it isn't true but gets outed later he can simply say " well when I was asked I genuinely believed it to be true"

Not watched this one but he was using it on Sky earlier


Edit ... Now watched this and he didn't do it at all unlike on Sky. I don't watch BBC News so can't comment on that either.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 24, 2023, 09:54:15 am
This is so depressing to witness. The Govt is like a terminally ill dog that has lost the will to go on. There should be some mechanism whereby it could be put out of its misery.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 24, 2023, 10:53:57 am
Philp only had to say 'well lots of others do it' to turn the car crash into a total write off.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 24, 2023, 01:36:10 pm
If only he and others could be up front about things instead of trying to cover tracks it is happening time and time again the don't seem to learn.
If he had just said at the beginning something along the lines of
I had some bad advice and am now sorting things out with HMRC to pay the due tax.
He would possibly have quashed it all back then but  no denials and threatening letters from Lawyers are the 1st defence, they just can't bring themselves to do it
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 24, 2023, 10:46:50 pm
Astonishing how every generation of politicians forgets the Golden Rule.

It's not the original crime that gets you. It's the cover up.

A stream of people including ex-Tory ministers rushing in to stick the knife in. Not over the tax fiddle (which is telling). Over the fact that Zahawi tried to bully an investigator by sending threatening legal letters from a solicitor, which turn out to have been full of lies.

Sunak is showing awful judgement in letting this string out.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 25, 2023, 07:08:48 am
Amen to that but ....


When you get 3 names Shapps doing it and rising to be Chairman of Conservatives there is an incentive to "cover up" surely especially if the PM of the day gets a final say on the "Independent" Reviewers Report , especially whether he or she agrees with it and whether he or she accepts the findings

Lately we have had a string of " x , y or z has apologised and I have accepted that apology and we have moved on",  so tough it out and let events overtake your personal "difficulties" seems to be the order of the day
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: mugnapper on January 25, 2023, 08:32:48 am
Re Zahawi. Why would a man worth 'up to £100 million' (quote  Daily Express); bother with a job that pays him £100k a year? It's like King Charles getting a paper round.
Is it :-
A) An overwhelming desire to improve the living standards of all UK citizens or
B) Be in a position to influence decisions that will make himself and his kind, even richer?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 25, 2023, 08:49:48 am
You should have done a Poll

B for me.

There can't be any other reason although you could maybe split B into 2 (making himself richer or making himself and others like him richer)

Personally I think helping the others is a lucky by product for the rest like him !
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 25, 2023, 09:42:24 am
The good thing is, the longer this drags on, the more damaging it is for the Tory party
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 25, 2023, 10:17:55 am
.... agreed but the Country is going to the dogs while they have and will continue to behave like they have been doing.

They may be voted out (who knows at this range) but if they are what a mess for the incoming Party

Personally and nobody will be surprised I would really welcome PR of some sort and a chance to leave extremism ( wherever it comes from ) behind us forever


And yes I hope the new Govt introduces a fixed 30 minutes for each half of first class Footy matches ( 2 in 1 )  :lol:
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 25, 2023, 11:33:01 am
Zahawi gone before question time, that is the question?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 25, 2023, 11:49:57 am
Beth Rigby twitter

''Ahead of #PMQs source close to Zahawi tells me he “100% is not resigning”. More on @skynews with MP panel @JayneSeckerSky and me imminently''

good for labour, bad for the country
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 25, 2023, 11:59:30 am
Beth Rigby twitter

''Ahead of #PMQs source close to Zahawi tells me he “100% is not resigning”. More on @skynews with MP panel @JayneSeckerSky and me imminently''

good for labour, bad for the country

Doesn’t want to step off the gravy train
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: MachoMadness on January 25, 2023, 01:05:01 pm
Beth Rigby twitter

''Ahead of #PMQs source close to Zahawi tells me he “100% is not resigning”. More on @skynews with MP panel @JayneSeckerSky and me imminently''

good for labour, bad for the country
He'll be out by the weekend then.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 25, 2023, 02:00:20 pm


Zahawi gone before question time, that is the question?

Not a chance imo
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Ldr on January 25, 2023, 02:28:05 pm
Re Zahawi. Why would a man worth 'up to £100 million' (quote  Daily Express); bother with a job that pays him £100k a year? It's like King Charles getting a paper round.
Is it :-
A) An overwhelming desire to improve the living standards of all UK citizens or
B) Be in a position to influence decisions that will make himself and his kind, even richer?

You don’t get into politics at that level unless you are on the take would be my opinion
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 25, 2023, 04:34:16 pm


Zahawi gone before question time, that is the question?

Not a chance imo
Bit late making that comment Wolfie PMQT was at 12.00 :-]]
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 25, 2023, 06:42:17 pm
Re Zahawi. Why would a man worth 'up to £100 million' (quote  Daily Express); bother with a job that pays him £100k a year? It's like King Charles getting a paper round.
Is it :-
A) An overwhelming desire to improve the living standards of all UK citizens or
B) Be in a position to influence decisions that will make himself and his kind, even richer?

You don’t get into politics at that level unless you are on the take would be my opinion

Absolute nonsense.

The vast majority of senior ministers on both sides, throughout recent history haven't been "on the take".

The problem is, so many basic standards have slipped in recent years (and I mean just the last few) that it's become normalised to think they are all crooks, spivs or liars.

They aren't. Most of them are decent, honest and hard working, even the ones I think are talentless.

It's this attitude that beds in the chance of chancers running the country. If people believe that all politicians are bent, what's the incentive for a politician to stay straight?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: danumdon on January 25, 2023, 10:43:28 pm
Re Zahawi. Why would a man worth 'up to £100 million' (quote  Daily Express); bother with a job that pays him £100k a year? It's like King Charles getting a paper round.
Is it :-
A) An overwhelming desire to improve the living standards of all UK citizens or
B) Be in a position to influence decisions that will make himself and his kind, even richer?

You don’t get into politics at that level unless you are on the take would be my opinion

Absolute nonsense.

The vast majority of senior ministers on both sides, throughout recent history haven't been "on the take".

The problem is, so many basic standards have slipped in recent years (and I mean just the last few) that it's become normalised to think they are all crooks, spivs or liars.

They aren't. Most of them are decent, honest and hard working, even the ones I think are talentless.

It's this attitude that beds in the chance of chancers running the country. If people believe that all politicians are bent, what's the incentive for a politician to stay straight?

You kepp telling yourself this BST and people will still think the other way because these clowns keep proving them right and you wrong by their very actions.

The incentive for politicians should be to be decent, honest and hardworking and root out and expose these charlatans for what they are, instead they provide cover and allow the rotten core to continue to defraud the country. Its happening on a steady basis just from the snippets we get to hear about, we should be more concerned with the section we don't get to hear about because you could bet your house on it that its there and permeating.

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 25, 2023, 10:45:55 pm
Name and shame DD that's always a good start.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 25, 2023, 11:02:43 pm
Name and shame DD that's always a good start.

Exactly.

DD, you keep telling us they are all the same.

Tell me who the last senior Labour politician was who got fingered for tax evasion.

Tell me who was the last senior Labour politician was who tried to frighten off members of the public who tried to expose their cheating by threatening to destroy them with legal action. Like Zahawi and Shapps.

Tell me who was the last Labour PM who built his career on lies on matters of Objective Truth. Like Johnson.

Tell me who was the last Labour Cabinet Minister who drove a member of staff to attempt suicide because of constant bullying. Like Patel.

You WANT them all to be the same. So you assume they are. But you never give any evidence to back that up.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: danumdon on January 25, 2023, 11:23:25 pm
I stand by my last sentence.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 25, 2023, 11:26:58 pm
you don't know of any at all do you dd? yet more secret knowledge?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 26, 2023, 10:22:08 am
Let me try a slightly different tack DD.

1) If there's no penalty for MPs being bent, what is there to stop more bent people being attracted into politics?

2) If people like you and Ldr are lazily going to accuse ALL successful politicians of being bent, what incentive is there for good, honest people to go into politics?

3) If there's no penalty for MPs who lie and cheat to their own advantage (and clearly there isn't, because the country elected a pathological liar as PM, last time it had a choice) then what incentive is there for others to be honest and lose?

This is the bit that people who complain about politicians don't get. If our politics is bent and corrupt and rewards cheats, it is YOUR fault. YOU can vote them out.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 26, 2023, 01:03:31 pm
I agree with BST on this one. If enough people have this sort of attitude towards politicians it paves the way for populists like Farage and Trump.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 26, 2023, 02:23:04 pm
Exactly Nc. The only way to stop liars and frauds winning out is to identify and punish liars and frauds.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 26, 2023, 04:01:56 pm
Bombshell dropped by Head of HMRC you don't get penalised for an innocent error and he will publish the tax affairs to the review chappy if Zahawi approves
Over to you Nadz ball in your court
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: i_ateallthepies on January 26, 2023, 05:16:15 pm
He's on borrowed time and must have known it from the off.  Why do these people insist on gritting it out whilst every toe-curling detail is drip fed to the world until the inevitable destruction of any reputation they may have had?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 26, 2023, 05:20:08 pm
He's on borrowed time and must have known it from the off.  Why do these people insist on gritting it out whilst every toe-curling detail is drip fed to the world until the inevitable destruction of any reputation they may have had?

His credibility is trashed, the longer he strings it out the more Damage he’s doing to the weak Sunak
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 26, 2023, 05:33:53 pm
I just do not understand what Sunak is doing.

He's been misled by Zahawi. When they discussed this last week, Zahawi didn't tell Sunak that he'd been issued with a penalty. So Sunak went to PMQs last week and defended Zahawi to the hilt.

That's as stonecold a stackable offence as you'll ever see in politics. Sunak could draw a line under this, show who is in control and massively enhance his reputation with the public. It's an open goal and he's dithering over exactly how to tie his laces.

Zahawi is going to get the sack. That's inevitable. But Sunak is going to get zero credit for it. He's going to look like a kid in a grown-up's job. He doesn't need an investigation to know that Zahawi lied to him.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 26, 2023, 08:16:22 pm
He's agreed for his tax affairs to be made available to the enquiry chappy, must be confident of a cover up from Richie. As someone has said he.must know more about Richies tax affairs than we do
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 26, 2023, 08:51:46 pm
If I'm allowed to speak, sunak has yet to reveal his own tax returns as promised on a couple of occasions.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ncRover on January 26, 2023, 08:54:12 pm
No active arguments in off topic whilst the main forum descends in to chaos. Fancy that!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 27, 2023, 02:27:23 am
''Earlier, Mr Harra, the chief executive of HMRC, gave evidence to the Commons Public Accounts Committee about managing tax compliance following the pandemic.

The MPs also quizzed him about Mr Zahawi's tax arrangements.

He said he would not comment on specific individuals, but added: "There are no penalties for innocent errors in your tax affairs. So if you take reasonable care, but nevertheless make a mistake, whilst you will be liable for the tax and for interest if it's paid late, you would not be liable for a penalty''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64410490

It doesn't sound complicated to me, in fact very straight forward, but stupidly when I read that zahawi said 'careless' I thought he was referring to how HMRC had interpreted it, nothing of the sort he was dodging tax.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 27, 2023, 10:05:15 am
Nadhim Zahawi faces questions over source of £30m unsecured loans to wife’s property company
QUESTION Are we now entering the realms of criminal activity? Money laundering rules state you have to give the source of funds to buy property.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: mugnapper on January 27, 2023, 11:33:49 am
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-earns-nearly-1m-in-one-month-in-outside-earnings-bringing-his-total-since-2019-to-2-3m-12796180

Why did he need an £800k loan?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Ldr on January 27, 2023, 12:26:36 pm
Re Zahawi. Why would a man worth 'up to £100 million' (quote  Daily Express); bother with a job that pays him £100k a year? It's like King Charles getting a paper round.
Is it :-
A) An overwhelming desire to improve the living standards of all UK citizens or
B) Be in a position to influence decisions that will make himself and his kind, even richer?

You don’t get into politics at that level unless you are on the take would be my opinion

Absolute nonsense.

The vast majority of senior ministers on both sides, throughout recent history haven't been "on the take".

The problem is, so many basic standards have slipped in recent years (and I mean just the last few) that it's become normalised to think they are all crooks, spivs or liars.

They aren't. Most of them are decent, honest and hard working, even the ones I think are talentless.

It's this attitude that beds in the chance of chancers running the country. If people believe that all politicians are bent, what's the incentive for a politician to stay straight?

I want to believe politicians aren’t bent, I just find it impossible to do so
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 02:20:07 pm
Why. There are loads of examples of ones who aren't. You are judging all of them by the worst examples.

There's absolutely no reason to think that Sunak is "bent". Similarly, Starmer.

Is Angela Rayner bent? Or Jeremy Hunt? Was Corbyn? Or Gordon Brown?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: danumdon on January 27, 2023, 04:44:16 pm
Why. There are loads of examples of ones who aren't. You are judging all of them by the worst examples.

There's absolutely no reason to think that Sunak is "bent". Similarly, Starmer.

Is Angela Rayner bent? Or Jeremy Hunt? Was Corbyn? Or Gordon Brown?

So your now hanging your hat on the above quotes.

Do you think you can say the same about all named individuals in regard to them enabling and providing cover for "bent" MP's to prosper, subconsciously or not?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 05:37:53 pm
DD.

You know about bent MPs. Give us some examples then, outside the obvious ones that we are discussing.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: danumdon on January 27, 2023, 06:57:12 pm
DD.

You know about bent MPs. Give us some examples then, outside the obvious ones that we are discussing.


So you can't or won't answer my question.

Telling.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 07:07:57 pm
DD

I haven't got the foggiest what your question means.

You apparently want me to give an opinion on something there is no evidence for.

What do you expect me to say?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: danumdon on January 27, 2023, 07:17:36 pm
Answered absolutely as expected.

Now isn't that a surprise!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 07:31:27 pm
I'm genuinely baffled.

How am I supposed to answer the question you put? You want me to give an opinion on what goes on in the subconscious minds of people I've never met? And then you have a pop when I decline to answer?

Things have just got very surreal.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 29, 2023, 12:16:42 am
Sunak said at PMQs this week that no-one informed him that Zahawi had a problem with the tax office when Sunak gave him a Cabinet post in October.

Looks like he lied.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1619362257275879426

In normal times, a PM lying to the House is a resigning issue. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 29, 2023, 12:32:51 am
a rishi sunk
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 29, 2023, 09:42:13 am
Gone!
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 29, 2023, 09:50:00 am
Hi risk anus .... finally gets tough

Whoooooo

Gove now saying he's strong and taken decisive action after an Independent Investigation ( yeah right )


He can't start Investigations unilaterally but has to wait to be asked by PM hi risk anus


As we have seen the PM can totally disagree with the findings or agree with them but as Johnson did   say we have had an apology and we are moving on


Very ding dang Independent eh
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 29, 2023, 09:53:53 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/22/sir-laurie-magnus-named-rishi-sunak-independent-adviser-ministers-interests
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 29, 2023, 12:11:11 pm
As ever, the Hogarth of our era gets it bang on the money.

https://twitter.com/coldwarsteve/status/1619649299846991873?s=20&t=QMiqiAkN4qB9EA2o--OWuA

The man is a genius.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 29, 2023, 03:31:04 pm
I wonder who the 2nd MP is that HMRC are investigating?
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Filo on January 29, 2023, 06:40:24 pm
After all this he is still entitled to be referred to as The Right Honourable
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 29, 2023, 07:06:21 pm
Surely  now is the time to call a general election to get shut of them and before they do anymore damage
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 29, 2023, 08:40:55 pm
A tax cheat of this magnitude shouldn't be allowed be allowed to sit in parliament when there isn't enough money to pay track work supervisors enough money.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 29, 2023, 09:06:33 pm
A tax cheat of this magnitude shouldn't be allowed be allowed to sit in parliament when there isn't enough money to pay track work supervisors enough money.
The Sun, Daily Mail or daily express, the right wing press will vilify rail workers (i am one myself) for wanting a pay rise and people get fixated with the pay it is also the conditions as well but it is fine to uncap bankers bonuses and it's alright for MP's to get a 28% pay rise over 13 years.

They also make you believe that there are less people commuting on trains. When looking at the trains now from where I work they look perfectly busy to me.

I went to a game with my nephew to see Sheffield United, with a rail card it was £7.20 return to Kirk Sandall so it is still a real cheap way of travelling compared to going in the car.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 30, 2023, 10:42:15 am
Very telling comment on R4 this morning by a Tory MP defending Sunak.

He said the inquiry had been the right thing to do "because it uncovered new evidence".

As far as I can see, the only new evidence brought to light is that Zahawi must have known before 15 July that he was under investigation, but insisted he didn't know that. Everything else was already in the public domain.

Why is this important?

Because it is inconceivable that Sunak was unaware of Zahawi's tax inquiry when he appointed him to the Cabinet in October. Which shows why Sunak couldn't sack Zahawi without the inquiry. How can you sack someone for something you knew about when you appointed him?

So Sunak needed the fig leaf of the standards inquiry to give him a cause to fire Zahawi.

At the very least, there's been a massive error of judgement by Sunak. Which is why Labour are going to hammer the point all week.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: SydneyRover on January 30, 2023, 10:58:48 am
''Integrity, Professionalism, Accountability'' LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXGr_r5n4V4


Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 30, 2023, 11:56:53 am
The "new evidence" which even surprised Dan Niedle? Was how long this had been dragging on for, didn't it all start in 2021? and Nadz had had several opportunities to record his "carelessness" which resulted in his several breaches of the Ministerial Code.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 30, 2023, 01:50:23 pm
Ritchie now has a dilemma, who to appoint Party Chairman
Should it be Fiona Bruce or Laura Kuenssberg?


Curtesy Twitter
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 30, 2023, 02:56:07 pm
Go back to Dowdy Dowden or hearten Zahawi by appointing 3 names Shapps

Even after that he rose to the heights of Tory Chairman so will make Zahawi thinking he too can look forward to it too

You couldn't make this stuff up
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 30, 2023, 02:59:21 pm
Don't worry says Braverman you'll get your new job in 6 days time, be patient like I was Oh and just say you're sorry like I did
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: mugnapper on January 30, 2023, 04:46:04 pm
https://news.sky.com/story/commissioner-removes-himself-from-investigation-into-appointment-of-bbc-chairman-after-boris-johnson-loan-claims-12799342
Taken this bloke a week to realise there was a conflict of interest lol
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 30, 2023, 04:49:56 pm
Meanwhile, Sunak has just dug himself a trap. He said today ""As soon as I knew about the situation (Zahawi's tax), I appointed somebody independent, looked at it,"

But we know that isn't true. He was aware of it back in October when he appointed Zahawi to the Cabinet. Or if he wasn't aware, he is guilty of monumental incompetence because the papers were full of it.

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 30, 2023, 07:34:58 pm
You couldn't make this stuff up ( replying to 150)

As independent as I am when watching Rovers.

Undoubtedly they were going to just carry on regardless. Johnson gets his loan of 800,000 and rewards the bloke who brokered it top job at the BBC

The s**t hits the fan and they appoint a bloke who knows the broker now Head of BBC but fails to mention it

Ethics becomes the name of the game as Sunak promises Integrity etc so the "Independent" adjudicator suddenly remembers he has met the object of his enquiry "a couple of times"

Probably live together

You couldn't make this stuff up
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: drfchound on January 30, 2023, 07:58:13 pm
Meanwhile, Sunak has just dug himself a trap. He said today ""As soon as I knew about the situation (Zahawi's tax), I appointed somebody independent, looked at it,"

But we know that isn't true. He was aware of it back in October when he appointed Zahawi to the Cabinet. Or if he wasn't aware, he is guilty of monumental incompetence because the papers were full of it.

BST, first you say “but we know that isn’t true, he was aware of it back in October.
That sounds like a statement of fact.
But then you cast a doubt by saying “or if he wasn’t aware” which sounds as though you are not sure of the fact that you quoted.
I’m not trying to pick an argument here but it does seem to be a contradictory post you made.
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on January 30, 2023, 09:01:56 pm
You couldn't make this stuff up ( replying to 150)

As independent as I am when watching Rovers.

Undoubtedly they were going to just carry on regardless. Johnson gets his loan of 800,000 and rewards the bloke who brokered it top job at the BBC

The s**t hits the fan and they appoint a bloke who knows the broker now Head of BBC but fails to mention it

Ethics becomes the name of the game as Sunak promises Integrity etc so the "Independent" adjudicator suddenly remembers he has met the object of his enquiry "a couple of times"

Probably live together

You couldn't make this stuff up

The bloke who knows him has stood down
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Donnywolf on January 31, 2023, 06:26:11 am
Cheers rr

Yes I meant to add that between "they probably live together " and " you couldn't make this stuff up" lol

Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: ravenrover on February 02, 2023, 04:20:55 pm
Sunak has made Tory donor Stephen Massey temp chairman of party after sacking Zahawi over tax dodging scandal. Massey works for a firm that helps rich avoid taxes & in 2007 was himself found by HMRC to have tried to avoid tax on £5m he got in bonuses.
You couldn’t make it up
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: roverstillidie91 on February 03, 2023, 07:48:00 am
100 days into the reign of Britains first OLIGARCH PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfmJzU7iObE
Title: Re: Zahawi
Post by: Sprotyrover on February 05, 2023, 12:34:24 pm
23 times more likely to be caught for benefit Fraud than Tax fraud, yet tax fraud costs us 9 times more in lost Revenue.