Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Retdon1 on January 21, 2023, 09:52:42 pm
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Looks like we’re about to sign him. His contract with Scunny runs out tomorrow. He’s scored 8 from 18 games for them this season. Can play anywhere across the forward line.
He’s played most of his career at League 1 level and not been prolific but can’t fault his record this season and seems like a low risk signing that could come good.
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I can’t imagine what it must be like playing for scunny at the moment.
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I can’t imagine what it must be like playing for scunny at the moment.
Did you go to Colchester away?
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Is this just a rumour?
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Is this just a rumour?
It may have started that way earlier today but it’s now being reported by Radio Sheffield reporters now
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
I would say this is a smarter signing than those 2 as long as it’s a deal until the end of the season with the option to extend in our hands. He’s just turned 30 so should be in his prime now. He’s playing regularly and scoring goals, unlike Agard and Clayton when they signed
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Shocking.
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Shocking.
What’s shocking
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Lavery's a good player with good experience.
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Shocking.
What’s shocking
Everything the club do, according to some people.
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Bags of experience, just what we need, would be a good addition. Talking to a Blade's mate of mine said he's a good player & couldn't believe he was at Scunny.
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I’d be disappointed if it’s a long term contract. In summer we should be focusing on players aged 20-25 to build a sustainable team. And to be fair we mostly did that in the summer.
Deal to the end of the season is fine and if he turns good we can try extend for next season
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You’d think that players turn 30 and all of a sudden become Hans Moleman. If we’ve got him on an 18-month contract, he’ll be 31 by the end of that. He looks lean and fit. He is ready to go and in scoring touch.
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Whether he is or isn't what we need, it's refreshing to actually acquire a player who is fit, in form, playing football regularly and ready to start straight away. Doesn't happen so often in January.
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I'd be happy with this on a contract to end of season with option to sign for longer. He is a player who I think can become a fans favourite, will work hard and will put the ball in the net when he gets the chance.
Bags of experience for this level.
Unfortunately some people will write him off before a ball is kicked because we havnt splashed a wad full of cash him.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
Of course there is,
If he comes on an 18 month deal and scores 25 goals, there’ll be clubs happy to pay good
Money for a 31 year old.
The age isn’t the issue it’s making sure the players we want to keep have long enough contracts
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
Yes but if he a short term signing till the end of the season, which I suspect he will be then it doesn’t matter.
Which strikers do you think we are going to get in January? They are all under contract. We are only going to get other clubs cast offs. Yes we might be lucky and drop on one that is a gem. But what are the odds?
Lavery has got League 2, league 1 & Championship experience. In this transfer window he might be the best we can get. Let’s see how good he is then make a decision on him at the end of the season.
In May/June/July there will be much more choice.
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Looks like we’re about to sign him. His contract with Scunny runs out tomorrow. He’s scored 8 from 18 games for them this season. Can play anywhere across the forward line.
He’s played most of his career at League 1 level and not been prolific but can’t fault his record this season and seems like a low risk signing that could come good.
He’s made 234 league appearances according to wiki - 49 at League One level, 34 at Championship, 133 at League Two so only about 37% at League One (and above). Plenty of experience though.
Will be interesting to see the length of the contract - we are very light on numbers at the moment so until the end of the season with an option feels low risk and would give the chance to earn something more long term.
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Every young team needs at least 1 or 2 older heads playing with the young un's
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What’s more important? The future sale value of a player, or the added value he brings to the team during the time he plays?
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
Of course there is,
If he comes on an 18 month deal and scores 25 goal, there’ll be clubs happy to pay good
Money for a 31 year old.
The age isn’t the issue it’s making sure the players we want to keep have long enough contracts
In the past 50 years, which 30 year old+ players have we received a decent fee for?
Of our top 25 player sales of all time, not one of them has been over 30 years old. It's obviously a fantasy.
He could do well for us, but there is no way we are going to get a decent fee for a player in League Two aged 31 or ever 32.
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What’s more important? The future sale value of a player, or the added value he brings to the team during the time he plays?
Both are equally important but the point made earlier in the chain was about sustainability and clearly trying to monetise even a successful 31 or 32 year old is not easy. In fact, there is almost no evidence in recent memory of us managing to do this.
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We either get a 19/20 yr old from the Premier League or Championship on loan, with possibly none or very little League experience or we get someone like Lavery.
That is what the January transfer window IS.
Now the club, it seems are damned if they do the former and damned if they do the latter by some of our fans. Nothing new there though.
At least Lavery is ready to go. Match fit and has scored almost 1 in 2 games this season for a club that is bottom of the National League.
Last season we signed Agard who hadn’t played for months and wasn’t ready to go.
I think the right option has been chosen this time, assuming this is happening. Nothing confirmed.
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What’s more important? The future sale value of a player, or the added value he brings to the team during the time he plays?
Both are equally important but the point made earlier in the chain was about sustainability and clearly trying to monetise even a successful 31 or 32 year old is not easy. In fact, there is almost no evidence in recent memory of us managing to do this.
If all we ever signed were 30 year olds then that point is more valid.
Do you think our “sustainability” model is dependent upon transfer profits? I’m not so sure seen as that is quite unpredictable..
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Ernie Moss and Paul Barnes were no spring chickens when we signed them but they did a job for us.
If a player gets you where your club wants to be over a one or two season period then I would be happy if there was no resale value as he will have earned his wages and done the job that was expected of him.
It’s not like we are trying to recoup a large initial transfer fee.
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What’s more important? The future sale value of a player, or the added value he brings to the team during the time he plays?
Both are equally important but the point made earlier in the chain was about sustainability and clearly trying to monetise even a successful 31 or 32 year old is not easy. In fact, there is almost no evidence in recent memory of us managing to do this.
If all we ever signed were 30 year olds then that point is more valid.
Do you think our “sustainability” model is dependent upon transfer profits? I’m not so sure seen as that is quite unpredictable..
It quite clearly isn’t dependant on transfer fees received IDM
Marquis & Whiteman are the only Substantial fees received since 2011.
Just received a very small fee for Knoyle. It will only have been small. Other fees we may have received will have been very small.
We are financially stable without receiving transfer fees. We couldn’t keep Marquis or Whiteman.
We wanted to keep them though. They were not sold because the club needed to sell.
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What’s more important? The future sale value of a player, or the added value he brings to the team during the time he plays?
Both are equally important but the point made earlier in the chain was about sustainability and clearly trying to monetise even a successful 31 or 32 year old is not easy. In fact, there is almost no evidence in recent memory of us managing to do this.
It's one player though, as long as its the exception and not the rule then what is wrong with it, he has good experience at this level and will be a good squad player for the level we are currently at.
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If you go on the Scunthorpe forum via the link on this forum, it’s the main story. It reads that the Iron know he’s leaving
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
Of course there is,
If he comes on an 18 month deal and scores 25 goal, there’ll be clubs happy to pay good
Money for a 31 year old.
The age isn’t the issue it’s making sure the players we want to keep have long enough contracts
In the past 50 years, which 30 year old+ players have we received a decent fee for?
Of our top 25 player sales of all time, not one of them has been over 30 years old. It's obviously a fantasy.
He could do well for us, but there is no way we are going to get a decent fee for a player in League Two aged 31 or ever 32.
Exactly which is why it shouldn’t be a major consideration when signing a player
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
Of course there is,
If he comes on an 18 month deal and scores 25 goal, there’ll be clubs happy to pay good
Money for a 31 year old.
The age isn’t the issue it’s making sure the players we want to keep have long enough contracts
In the past 50 years, which 30 year old+ players have we received a decent fee for?
Of our top 25 player sales of all time, not one of them has been over 30 years old. It's obviously a fantasy.
He could do well for us, but there is no way we are going to get a decent fee for a player in League Two aged 31 or ever 32.
This time last year Wrexham signed 30 year old Ollie Palmer from Wimbledon for £300000 on a three and half year deal. Now personally I'd be very concerned if we replicated that sort of transaction but clearly there are clubs out there prepared to pay big money for 30+ lower league strikers. Paddy Madden is another who moved for a six figure fee when Stockport signed him from Fleetwood after he had turned 31 on a three year deal.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
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Because at 30 there is no resale value.
Of course there is,
If he comes on an 18 month deal and scores 25 goal, there’ll be clubs happy to pay good
Money for a 31 year old.
The age isn’t the issue it’s making sure the players we want to keep have long enough contracts
In the past 50 years, which 30 year old+ players have we received a decent fee for?
Of our top 25 player sales of all time, not one of them has been over 30 years old. It's obviously a fantasy.
He could do well for us, but there is no way we are going to get a decent fee for a player in League Two aged 31 or ever 32.
So, in the last 10 years how many of the players of any age that have come through our club have we received a fee for? It really isn't a prime factor in selecting players.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Football is an upside down industry too though SM
Expenditure also eventually = income (to more extreme circumstances/lengths than other industries)
*** I do think this is a good signing for us in our position *** I imagine even a short term contract will have extensions written into it for both the players and the clubs benefits.
I'm happy as a supporter with the sustainable model but think that our youth progression system needs to be much more of a major factor into our first team.
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Just in terms of lavery. I couldn't care less if he has a resale value or not. He has been brought in with one thing in mind and that is to help and score goals to push us upwards. If he gets double digits by the end of this season I don't care if he moves on for 1 million or 1 pence.
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Haven't we been perennially linked with Lavery in the past?
I initially thought this one was of those threads where a previous rumoured target is now revealed to be playing in the Uttar Pradesh Second Division.
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Scunthorpe have confirmed that he has left the Club.
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You can’t build into the budget unanticipated transfer fees therefore they would be ignored for budget setting purposes.
The playing budget would have a certain amount set aside for player purchasing and transfer fees though because it would be putting the recruitment team in a virtual straight jacket.
Any funds received as income would be made available and boost the playing budget.
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Is he likely to have more of an impact if he comes on than Agard? He probably is but I wouldnt want to see him on a deal longer than 6months.
Still think we need another wide man, 2 cm and left back cover.
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There is a video clip on youtube of him scoring a hat trick recently against Maidstone.
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Scunthorpe are rock bottom of the National League. Two points behind…Maidstone, who have lost their last 7 league games in a row.
His hat trick was against Maidenhead btw.
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23 goals in 134 appearances in League 2…he will fit right in.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
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Haven't we been perennially linked with Lavery in the past?
I initially thought this one was of those threads where a previous rumoured target is now revealed to be playing in the Uttar Pradesh Second Division.
Just waiting for the Gary Madine rumours to start up again.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Come on GazLaz tell us who we should be signing in the January window?
Who is available that’s really good for our level that other teams are going to let go.
Seriously, don’t you think we would be trying to get them if they were available.
Players are under contract in Jan. Only ones being released are those surplus to requirements because either not good enough or as in Scunthorpe’s case need to be off the wage bill.
So we take a punt on someone of Lavery’s ilk or we go down the loan route of a youngster from top 2 Leagues. Now we all no how that has worked out recently.
In the Summer we should be able to recruit the 4 players we probably need to give us the best chance of taking us up. ( unless we manage it this season ) play offs are still realistic and then it’s a 1 in 4 chance.
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Both Bradford and Walsall fans stating he is either useless or anonymous
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You can’t build into the budget unanticipated transfer fees therefore they would be ignored for budget setting purposes.
The playing budget would have a certain amount set aside for player purchasing and transfer fees though because it would be putting the recruitment team in a virtual straight jacket.
Any funds received as income would be made available and boost the playing budget.
Like the Whiteman and Marquis fees they have been invested in the playing budgets , bad as Baldwin etc …..
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Who wanted Clayton last January? I don't recall anyone making a song and dance about him being the answer to our prayers, just a gamble on an experienced player we needed in central midfield.
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Scunthorpe are rock bottom of the National League. Two points behind…Maidstone, who have lost their last 7 league games in a row.
His hat trick was against Maidenhead btw.
He’s scored 8 goals in 18 games for the worst side Scunthorpe have ever had
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Copps wasn't HoF last January when we signed Clayton and Agard, so why are you linking him to that (admittedly poor) transfer window?
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the resale value of a player much less important when you're picking them up for free? And on, I'd assume, pretty low wages?
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What are his best attributes? What can we expect from his play?
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Copps wasn't HoF last January when we signed Clayton and Agard, so why are you linking him to that (admittedly poor) transfer window?
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the resale value of a player much less important when you're picking them up for free? And on, I'd assume, pretty low wages?
Was he not part of the transfer committee??
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If we end up signing him, I think it brings good experience, and no doubt someone hungry to do well. His record doesn’t have to be amazing, we’re mid league 2, not paying any fees, as long as he works hard to try and contribute, that works for me.
I think some on this forum still think we’re operating like we’re in the championship, we dip into the free market because that’s how we can maximise the funds we do have.
There is no instant fix here and it’s going to take seasons to build competitive squads (built around a manager if we can keep one longer than a season)
The last success we had is probably the McCann side, which was built by Ferguson over a number of seasons.
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The side McCann was instrumental in ripping to pieces before he left and continued by DM and his use of loan players
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Shall we all just wait until the rumours have been cofirmed when the Club sign him? People getting in a tiz over something that may or may not happen.
Nothing changes there then
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
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We’re all waiting what JC has to say about how we intend improving our current position and putting an end to this downward spiral we seem to be on.
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Both Bradford and Walsall fans stating he is either useless or anonymous
Just like what the Millwall and Portsmouth fans said about Marquis.
Means nothing.
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Both Bradford and Walsall fans stating he is either useless or anonymous
Just like what the Millwall and Portsmouth fans said about Marquis.
Means nothing.
I’m aware of that, just passing on what I’ve read
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Anyway, Chall is providing Sunday amusement for us all on this transfer anyhow.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
I get that Martin but we have not sustained the budget and income we had last season because we got relegated. The things go hand in hand.
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If Lavery has scored scored 8 goals in 18 games for a team at the foot of the division think what he might achieve in a decent side.
He might just be a good acquisition.
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That's true, although we play in League Two and his record there over the last four seasons with Walsall, Bradford and Bury has been 106 games and 16 goals. Anyway, we all have to trust that the correct homework has been done and the lad is going to come in firing on all cylinders and make an impact for us.
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I wonder how many of those 106 games were starts?
If he came on for the last couple of minutes as a sub it counts as an appearance.
It might have been 106 starts of course, but I doubt it.
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Forget the stats, it’s a PR disaster, especially when set against the Netto brigade!
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Forget the stats, it’s a PR disaster, especially when set against the Netto brigade!
Alan, anything other than John Ryan being paraded around the ground on a golden throne as the returning owner would be a PR disaster with them
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
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Forget the stats, it’s a PR disaster, especially when set against the Netto brigade!
Alan, anything other than John Ryan being paraded around the ground on a golden throne as the returning owner would be a PR disaster with them
Only if there was a trial of £100 notes falling from his pockets and the throne was being carried by One Direction with Sir Kirkham throwing rose petals in front
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
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The way I see it.
Club Doncaster will make sure Doncaster Rovers breaks even.
The owners won't need to contribute to the club as it's self funded and sustainable.
IF the Rovers have cash flow problems or have something crazy come up then the ownership will help.
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If Schofield wants him then I'm all for it. I just hope it's on a short term deal.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?
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The business model has been brilliant and is one of the best in the EFL.
What hasn’t been brilliant ( much of it in hindsight ) because there are never any guarantees of success, has been the recruitment of managers and Players since McCann left us.
That’s not to say DS and JC aren’t the men that are going to get it right on the field of play. We need to give them much more time to make any judgment on them.
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Just had a message from my Scunny pal, he rated him, yes albeit at a lower level, however this is what he thinks - Before he came to us he was not exactly prolific, but he he's been banging them in for Scunny - and that's with no support and playing for the worst team in the league. If he signs then you got a good player.
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There is a video clip on youtube of him scoring a hat trick recently against Maidstone.
For the lazy....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlYdFfc36JU
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Seems to be a bubbly character - some miles on the clock, but is two footed and seems to get into good areas... good luck to the lad.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?
Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.
Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.
If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
-
Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?
Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.
Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.
If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
And there's some of the sustainable brigade on here who can't work that out! We can be so called 'sustainable' in National League North and if we don't get our act together on and off the pitch we might just have to be! Hopefully we have stemmed the decline this season, and under JC our recruitment should be smarter and aligned to a recognised style of play, we shall see.
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I hope that I am wrong, but adding another pension plan onto our payroll seems to be the idea of new blood coming into the squad, I hope he is fit, he has been running the line in National league, but is that at the same pace as Lg.2? What happens to George now this striker is here? We only play one up front, so he gets dropped? Or do we play him as a support to George, so we bench either Molyneux or Hurst, can he operate quickly enough to replace those options? We will see, good luck to him. I hope he makes a difference, but I hold my judgment.
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I hope that I am wrong, but adding another pension plan onto our payroll seems to be the idea of new blood coming into the squad, I hope he is fit, he has been running the line in National league, but is that at the same pace as Lg.2? What happens to George now this striker is here? We only play one up front, so he gets dropped? Or do we play him as a support to George, so we bench either Molyneux or Hurst, can he operate quickly enough to replace those options? We will see, good luck to him. I hope he makes a difference, but I hold my judgment.
You’ve already judged in your first sentence
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Must be struggling to agree terms?
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Must be struggling to agree terms?
No, but there is due diligence to carry out.
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I was hoping it was just another rumour!
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I was hoping it was just another rumour!
don't worry. NL clubs are interested apparently.
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I hope that I am wrong, but adding another pension plan onto our payroll seems to be the idea of new blood coming into the squad, I hope he is fit, he has been running the line in National league, but is that at the same pace as Lg.2? What happens to George now this striker is here? We only play one up front, so he gets dropped? Or do we play him as a support to George, so we bench either Molyneux or Hurst, can he operate quickly enough to replace those options? We will see, good luck to him. I hope he makes a difference, but I hold my judgment.
He’s 30!!
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
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C'mon Dickos, you know if he isn't 21, like lightning, brilliant ball control capable pf 65 goals a season with a sell on value of £30m he is over the hill.......
According to some :-))
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
They don’t have the same financial limitations in the NL as EFL clubs do
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
They don’t have the same financial limitations in the NL as EFL clubs do
What limitations are there for EFL clubs?
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
They don’t have the same financial limitations in the NL as EFL clubs do
I was only being partly serious, the money that gets thrown around down there is ridiculous
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
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Wrexham are spending huge amounts at present. Not sure if it’s gone through yet but they were pushing for the equiv of iFollow to show Nat League games including prime kick off times. They’ll get thousands because of all the US interest from followers of their Star owners!
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?
Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.
Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.
If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Unless we get better value for money from the people we employ. HoF, Head Coach, Players etc.
If the size of a sustainable budget determines a clubs place in the pyramid, then Accrington, Morecambe etc shouldn't be in League One. Brighton, Crystal Palace etc, should not be competing with and beating the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Man U etc. Everton should not be struggling as they are.
The default solution for many who attack the owners, question the budget etc, is to throw more money at it, to demand the owners give us more cash, and to accuse them of being tight etc.
Equally, if we continue by giving more money to those who underperform the results can just be the same.
Reversing the trend is the difficult bit. Better results, better football, higher attendances, more income.
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
Debatable.
I'd say they are now but historically, way before Donny was full of glory supporters, we had more pulling power.
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Notts county offered him £10.30 an hour. We’re done
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
Disagree Filo.
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
Disagree Filo.
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster
You know I made that statement off the top of my head, having just looked you are correct, they seemed to be on telly a lot at one point for some reason, thats probably why I said that, I stand corrected and retract my earlier statement
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
Me too. I was thinking late 70's when Mansfield had a brief spell there.
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
I remember Wrexham in the old Second Division at the end of the seventies. Arfon Griffiths was their big goalscorer at the time.
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
Me too. I was thinking late 70's when Mansfield had a brief spell there.
Mansfield only had one season there.
-
He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
They had 4 seasons in Division 2 from 1978 to 1982,
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
Me too. I was thinking late 70's when Mansfield had a brief spell there.
Always remember watching Mansfield v Spurs in the 2nd Div on TV. 1978 3-3 draw.
-
He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.
Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level.
They had 4 seasons in Division 2 from 1978 to 1982,
They did Filo. Beat me to it. Just had another look because I was convinced they had been in 2nd tier.
Yes 4 seasons as you say.
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Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?
Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.
Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.
If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Unless we get better value for money from the people we employ. HoF, Head Coach, Players etc.
If the size of a sustainable budget determines a clubs place in the pyramid, then Accrington, Morecambe etc shouldn't be in League One. Brighton, Crystal Palace etc, should not be competing with and beating the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Man U etc. Everton should not be struggling as they are.
The default solution for many who attack the owners, question the budget etc, is to throw more money at it, to demand the owners give us more cash, and to accuse them of being tight etc.
Equally, if we continue by giving more money to those who underperform the results can just be the same.
Reversing the trend is the difficult bit. Better results, better football, higher attendances, more income.
I agree wholeheartedly Baz. We've got better gates than most in L2 (and just under half of L1) and supposedly generate the most income in the lower leagues through our commercial model. If the setup and personnel was right at the club, we should be doing a damn sight better than mid-table in L2 with those facts in mind.
The point I was trying to make was that if those factors had been addressed and we were a well-run club in football terms (which we're not - nobody can claim we are with the recruitment and results of the last few years), then we'd have a higher level of income to work with. If you don't address those things and spiral downwards in football terms, you also spiral downwards in terms of revenue due to the factors I highlighted.
The recruitment that has taken place even since the "re-structure" of the football operations, and the news that we're in for players like Lavery, doesn't give me any confidence personally that these issues with the way the club operates are being sufficiently addressed.
-
Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.
What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )
Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.
Sustainability is simple;
Income = Expenditure
Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.
If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??
What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??
In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.
Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.
Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.
To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.
Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.
Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!
Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?
Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.
Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.
If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Unless we get better value for money from the people we employ. HoF, Head Coach, Players etc.
If the size of a sustainable budget determines a clubs place in the pyramid, then Accrington, Morecambe etc shouldn't be in League One. Brighton, Crystal Palace etc, should not be competing with and beating the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Man U etc. Everton should not be struggling as they are.
The default solution for many who attack the owners, question the budget etc, is to throw more money at it, to demand the owners give us more cash, and to accuse them of being tight etc.
Equally, if we continue by giving more money to those who underperform the results can just be the same.
Reversing the trend is the difficult bit. Better results, better football, higher attendances, more income.
I agree wholeheartedly Baz. We've got better gates than most in L2 (and just under half of L1) and supposedly generate the most income in the lower leagues through our commercial model. If the setup and personnel was right at the club, we should be doing a damn sight better than mid-table in L2 with those facts in mind.
The point I was trying to make was that if those factors had been addressed and we were a well-run club in football terms (which we're not - nobody can claim we are with the recruitment and results of the last few years), then we'd have a higher level of income to work with. If you don't address those things and spiral downwards in football terms, you also spiral downwards in terms of revenue due to the factors I highlighted.
The recruitment that has taken place even since the "re-structure" of the football operations, and the news that we're in for players like Lavery, doesn't give me any confidence personally that these issues with the way the club operates are being sufficiently addressed.
the problem was is that we went sustainable when we only had half a team, so we didn’t have the funds to build a decent team and will continue to struggle due to that
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
Disagree Filo.
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster
The size of towns means nothing, Camps. Barnsley and Rotherham are both small towns, but much better supported than us, and much more successful.
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
Disagree Filo.
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster
The size of towns means nothing, Camps. Barnsley and Rotherham are both small towns, but much better supported than us, and much more successful.
Real shame as a decade ago and a bit we got much better crowds in than Rotherham. We really have gone backwards and the support has really died off.
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He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.
Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure
Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us
Disagree Filo.
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster
The size of towns means nothing, Camps. Barnsley and Rotherham are both small towns, but much better supported than us, and much more successful.
They are not small SS Rotherham 255.000 & Barnsley 232.000 Met Borough population.
Doncaster 309.000
Wrexham 61.000 and the county Borough is 133.000
Big difference to the 3 South Yorkshire towns / City
Rotherham are not much better supported than us.
They are in the Championship and averaging 10.000 gates.
That’s less than 4.000:more than us and 2 divisions higher with much larger away followings.
We got between 11.940 & 9.300 ave gates in that league over 5 seasons.
Rotherham have never been better supported based on the comparative league they have been in.
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Donny v Rotherham attendances
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/donr.htm
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/rotu.htm
Not alot in the historical averages.
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We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.
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We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.
They finished 2nd
We finished in the bottom 4 so that’s expected.
DBR has put a link on for both clubs. If you study it closely based on the number of years each club has been in which League level then Rovers are the better supported historically.
Rotherham have had more years in the 2nd tier and less than us in the 4th.
That’s an indisputable fact. Work out the averages.
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Donny v Rotherham attendances
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/donr.htm
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/rotu.htm
Not alot in the historical averages.
Based on ave league placings we are a fair bit ahead on attendances.
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Yes but one was in the top 3 all season while one was in the bottom 4 all season
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Anyway, I know we've gone off topic somewhat but generally we can plot our way through the years to determine when we've been on an upward or downward trajectory.
If you get into a debate with a Rotherham fan, you know where to go.
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Anyway, I know we've gone off topic somewhat but generally we can plot our way through the years to determine when we've been on an upward or downward trajectory.
If you get into a debate with a Rotherham fan, you know where to go.
Try to keep well away from Rotherham fans. Even when i am in Rotherham. Not difficult though as most support Wednesday, United or Leeds. ;)
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We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.
They finished 2nd
We finished in the bottom 4 so that’s expected.
DBR has put a link on for both clubs. If you study it closely based on the number of years each club has been in which League level then Rovers are the better supported historically.
Rotherham have had more years in the 2nd tier and less than us in the 4th.
That’s an indisputable fact. Work out the averages.
Yes, most people are aware we finished third bottom last season. It gets mentioned from time to time on here.
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We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.
They finished 2nd
We finished in the bottom 4 so that’s expected.
DBR has put a link on for both clubs. If you study it closely based on the number of years each club has been in which League level then Rovers are the better supported historically.
Rotherham have had more years in the 2nd tier and less than us in the 4th.
That’s an indisputable fact. Work out the averages.
Yes, most people are aware we finished third bottom last season. It gets mentioned from time to time on here.
No need to be sarky CBcb
You posted the respective gates of both clubs last season.
It’s not unreasonable to point out the respective league positions both clubs had.
So it is not surprising Rotherham had a higher ave gate.
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Anyway, I know we've gone off topic somewhat but generally we can plot our way through the years to determine when we've been on an upward or downward trajectory.
If you get into a debate with a Rotherham fan, you know where to go.
Try to keep well away from Rotherham fans. Even when i am in Rotherham. Not difficult though as most support Wednesday, United or Leeds. ;)
Much the same as in Donny then.
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Thought this was about Lavery, need him in for Saturday , might get another hattrick.
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Back on topic, I see Harry Kane is 29 going on 30...
No shortage of suitors it seems. No resale value? But too old/ too shit for us then?
Marquis is 30. How many on here were crying out for us to sign him last year?
Talk about tantrums and contradictions. I put it down to one or two posters needing their nappies changed!
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Wonder what’s going on here. Thought it was imminent on Sunday
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Probably considering offers in the National League with a longer contract. Hopefully we are only offering 6 months with a optional extension.
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Anyone have any idea how to pronounce his first name ?
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Anyone have any idea how to pronounce his first name ?
Irish , 'kay-lawn', 'keeyl-an' or 'quail-on', depending on the dialect.
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Anyone have any idea how to pronounce his first name ?
Irish , 'kay-lawn', 'keeyl-an' or 'quail-on', depending on the dialect.
Or 'Colin' if you're from Barnsley.
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Back on topic, I see Harry Kane is 29 going on 30...
No shortage of suitors it seems. No resale value? But too old/ too shit for us then?
Marquis is 30. How many on here were crying out for us to sign him last year?
Talk about tantrums and contradictions. I put it down to one or two posters needing their nappies changed!
What about May, I don’t give a damn about Marquis I certainly didn’t want him back, a spent penny.
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Wonder if this is happening or ever was - appreciate it’s only Tuesday but could do with some more bodies in before the weekend
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I would imagine that his agent is hanging on for other interest to put his deal here up a rung or a better offer elsewhere.
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Yes, I seem to remember folk moaning that May was rubbish and not good enough, get rid, etc. Funny how when these players go to another club, don't have fans on their back, they do much better. A bit of encouragement does wonders for their confidence and performances. Does make you wonder where the problem lies at times...
Back on topic, I see Harry Kane is 29 going on 30...
No shortage of suitors it seems. No resale value? But too old/ too shit for us then?
Marquis is 30. How many on here were crying out for us to sign him last year?
Talk about tantrums and contradictions. I put it down to one or two posters needing their nappies changed!
What about May, I don’t give a damn about Marquis I certainly didn’t want him back, a spent penny.
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Couldn’t agree more DonnyBob
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Signs for 18 month deal
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He just needs Barnsley now to finish off the set.
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He’s an improvement on andrews, welcome and best of luck! Let’s hope he hits the ground running
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I hope that I am wrong, but adding another pension plan onto our payroll seems to be the idea of new blood coming into the squad, I hope he is fit, he has been running the line in National league, but is that at the same pace as Lg.2? What happens to George now this striker is here? We only play one up front, so he gets dropped? Or do we play him as a support to George, so we bench either Molyneux or Hurst, can he operate quickly enough to replace those options? We will see, good luck to him. I hope he makes a difference, but I hold my judgment.
He’s been brought in as cover, chill
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Yes, I seem to remember folk moaning that May was rubbish and not good enough, get rid, etc. Funny how when these players go to another club, don't have fans on their back, they do much better. A bit of encouragement does wonders for their confidence and performances. Does make you wonder where the problem lies at times...
Back on topic, I see Harry Kane is 29 going on 30...
No shortage of suitors it seems. No resale value? But too old/ too shit for us then?
Marquis is 30. How many on here were crying out for us to sign him last year?
Talk about tantrums and contradictions. I put it down to one or two posters needing their nappies changed!
What about May, I don’t give a damn about Marquis I certainly didn’t want him back, a spent penny.
And yet Marquis has been far worse everywhere he has been since leaving us. Is that because the Portsmouth, Lincoln & Bristol Rovers fans are even worse?
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Looks like a fox in the box. One of those who doesn't really care how they go in, either at pace or bubbling across the line.
Prepared to have a go from all angles including overhead kicks. Perhaps an instinctive goalscorer and hopefully, a little bit sharper than Agard
Not a hold up type player by the looks but he's been brought in to add another option to George and our other attacking players.
Good luck to him. A great opportunity Saturday to make a mark in front of our fans at Mansfield should he get on to the pitch.
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Looks like a fox in the box. One of those who doesn't really care how they go in, either at pace or bubbling across the line.
Prepared to have a go from all angles including overhead kicks. Perhaps an instinctive goalscorer and hopefully, a little bit sharper than Agard
Not a hold up type player by the looks but he's been brought in to add another option to George and our other attacking players.
Good luck to him. A great opportunity Saturday to make a mark in front of our fans at Mansfield should he get on to the pitch.
Fox in the box is an interesting analogy, I’d assumed he would be more of an all rounder given his ability to play across the forward line. Will be interesting to see how/where he fits in.
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Looks like a fox in the box. One of those who doesn't really care how they go in, either at pace or bubbling across the line.
Prepared to have a go from all angles including overhead kicks. Perhaps an instinctive goalscorer and hopefully, a little bit sharper than Agard
Not a hold up type player by the looks but he's been brought in to add another option to George and our other attacking players.
Good luck to him. A great opportunity Saturday to make a mark in front of our fans at Mansfield should he get on to the pitch.
Fox in the box is an interesting analogy, I’d assumed he would be more of an all rounder given his ability to play across the forward line. Will be interesting to see how/where he fits in.
True, I've only had a butchers at his more recent highlights, so not sure of his full range of abilities.
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Good luck to the lad. This transfer window we're only ever likely to attract journeyman also-rans from league 2, who probably would fail to inspire. Or we try something different and dip into the non-league market and try and find some gems there. A reality check is needed by all in regards to the type of players we'll be bringing in for the foreseeable.
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That’s the first time I can remember the local area being a reason (albeit minor) to join the club. :)
Sounds like he lives in the town, sorry city.
I like what he has to say, and I hope it works for both parties. Hopefully this puts all the silly rumours “ we won’t compete or pay with… to bed”
Promotion is still within our sights, and I feel we are doing the right things to enable that.
Come on you reds!
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That’s the first time I can remember the local area being a reason (albeit minor) to join the club. :)
Sounds like he lives in the town, sorry city.
I like what he has to say, and I hope it works for both parties. Hopefully this puts all the silly rumours “ we won’t compete or pay with… to bed”
Promotion is still within our sights, and I feel we are doing the right things to enable that.
Come on you reds!
He lives in Sheffield
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And yet Marquis has been far worse everywhere he has been since leaving us. Is that because the Portsmouth, Lincoln & Bristol Rovers fans are even worse?
[/quote]
Far worse NickDRFC? Not sure what you base that on.
John's figures at Portsmouth were played 94 (27 as a sub) for 36 goals. Not exactly shabby for a player not in favour.
For Lincoln if was 5 in 17 and for Bristol Rovers He's scored 4 in 9 league games (1 in 2.25).
His overall career stats are 124 goals in 324 (1 in 2.61) games which is pretty much on a par with his scoring record since he left us (45/120 or 1 in 2.66).
With Rovers, where his career peaked in a pretty decent squad, a team set up to capitalise on his strengths, he scored 67 times in152 appearances equating to 1 in 2.27.
I suspect most will be chuffed if Lavery ends up being as useless as you appear to thinks Marquis is.
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I remember watching Marquis in his first game preseason I think it was Rossington and thought that is a striker and he proved it. I’ve not see another at the club since.
So we all hope that Caolan along with Miller G can score more goals.
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Pretty optimistic about Lavery, was a bit uninspired at first but the more I think about it, the more I think it could be decent business.
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Let's hope this signing can turn around the clubs misfortune
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Decent signing for us, I think he will do better with us than he has for others.
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And yet Marquis has been far worse everywhere he has been since leaving us. Is that because the Portsmouth, Lincoln & Bristol Rovers fans are even worse?
Far worse NickDRFC? Not sure what you base that on.
John's figures at Portsmouth were played 94 (27 as a sub) for 36 goals. Not exactly shabby for a player not in favour.
For Lincoln if was 5 in 17 and for Bristol Rovers He's scored 4 in 9 league games (1 in 2.25).
His overall career stats are 124 goals in 324 (1 in 2.61) games which is pretty much on a par with his scoring record since he left us (45/120 or 1 in 2.66).
With Rovers, where his career peaked in a pretty decent squad, a team set up to capitalise on his strengths, he scored 67 times in152 appearances equating to 1 in 2.27.
I suspect most will be chuffed if Lavery ends up being as useless as you appear to thinks Marquis is.
[/quote]
I don’t think Marquis is useless - far from it, and I’d take him back in a heartbeat. I thought my point was obvious but perhaps not so happy to clarify it for you.
You posted that May has improved since leaving Rovers and implied that it’s because of a more supportive fanbase. Using that logic, Marquis should also have improved, but he hasn’t, and his record has declined since leaving (fair enough, “far worse” was an exaggeration).
Rovers - 153 appearances, 66 goals, 13,605 minutes - a goal every 206 minutes
Portsmouth - 126 appearances, 37 goals, 8,889 minutes - a goal every 240 minutes
Lincoln - 20 appearances, 5 goals, 1,499 minutes - a goal every 300 minutes
Bristol Rovers - 24 appearances, 6 goals, 1,411 minutes - a goal every 235 minutes
I imagine there are a number of factors why May has improved - playing in a team better suited to his style, a supportive manager, getting a run of games in the right position - but I think it’s a stretch to suggest the fanbase had much, if anything, to do with it.
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Back on topic, I see Harry Kane is 29 going on 30...
No shortage of suitors it seems. No resale value? But too old/ too shit for us then?
Marquis is 30. How many on here were crying out for us to sign him last year?
Talk about tantrums and contradictions. I put it down to one or two posters needing their nappies changed!
What about May, I don’t give a damn about Marquis I certainly didn’t want him back, a spent penny.
I believe if we would have signed Marquis last season we'd have stayed up. Opportunity Cost.
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Back on topic, I see Harry Kane is 29 going on 30...
No shortage of suitors it seems. No resale value? But too old/ too shit for us then?
Marquis is 30. How many on here were crying out for us to sign him last year?
Talk about tantrums and contradictions. I put it down to one or two posters needing their nappies changed!
What about May, I don’t give a damn about Marquis I certainly didn’t want him back, a spent penny.
I believe if we would have signed Marquis last season we'd have stayed up. Opportunity Cost.
You’re missing the fact that Marquis wanted out of here
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I guess Lincoln is marginally closer to London
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Marquis wanted out in 2019. Not saying he would've necessarily come back, but a lot changed in the 3 years he wasn't here, and by the time Portsmouth came to offload him, his stock had fallen somewhat, so I'm not sure he could've been quite as picky over where the offers came from at that stage.
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When they want out, no invite to come back for me even if they wanted to, once left it’s for good
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back in.
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
What were the circumstances of him being manoeuvred out Baz.
I genuinely can’t remember the circumstances but if he was under contract surely he would have to go if he hadn’t wanted to.
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
What were the circumstances of him being manoeuvred out Baz.
I genuinely can’t remember the circumstances but if he was under contract surely he would have to go if he hadn’t wanted to.
Saunders wanted to free up his wages and from what I've heard over the years, made it abundantly clear.
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
What were the circumstances of him being manoeuvred out Baz.
I genuinely can’t remember the circumstances but if he was under contract surely he would have to go if he hadn’t wanted to.
Saunders wanted to free up his wages and from what I've heard over the years, made it abundantly clear.
Cheers Janso, I didn’t know that.
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Great interview with CL on iFollow. Speaks thoughtfully and clearly an intelligent lad. I hope he does really well for us.
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
He gave interviews at the time saying how delighted he was to be playing for his boyhood team.
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He’s gonna bag a few this fella, feel it in me bones.
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
He gave interviews at the time saying how delighted he was to be playing for his boyhood team.
I mean he wasn't going to come out and slate them
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Didn’t Copps want to be out when Forest came calling.
He came back though and I would think that most welcomed him back.m
No, he was manoeuvred out but thankfully he returned at the end of his loan.
He gave interviews at the time saying how delighted he was to be playing for his boyhood team.
I mean he wasn't going to come out and slate them
"Yeah, I'd rather be at Donny still but the money's good here" I missed that interview too.
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Haven't we been perennially linked with Lavery in the past?
I initially thought this one was of those threads where a previous rumoured target is now revealed to be playing in the Uttar Pradesh Second Division.
Just waiting for the Gary Madine rumours to start up again.
Madine signed for Hartlepool United. Not played a game since March 2023, admittedly in the Championship.