Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 02:48:50 pm

Title: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 02:48:50 pm
We planned to spend £55bn building a railway to connect most of the great cities of the North to the centre of London.

We are going to spend £100bn linking the outskirts of Manchester to Acton.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: BobG on January 27, 2023, 03:53:47 pm
And the accounts of the Dept.of Health & Social Care have showed a £6bn write off in 21-22 on top of a £8.9bn write off in 20-21 - all for useless PPE. That's £14.9bn wasted by those self same Tories. They might have got the train line to to St. Pancras with that...

How many hospitals does £14.9bn buy? How many roads resurfaced? How many teachers? Doctors? Nurses? How many planes for those ridiculous aircraft carriers without planes of our own? How many escort ships that actually work in warm waters?

BobG
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: danumdon on January 27, 2023, 04:48:49 pm
I'd say a decent size statue of a crowing Clegg and whimpering Corbyn somewhere important in London would do just as well.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: drfchound on January 27, 2023, 08:14:38 pm
We should never have started HS2 in the first place.  The original estimate of cost to build it was never going to be adhered to.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: selby on January 27, 2023, 09:01:43 pm
 Bob G, I listened to an expert and also a doctor who has wrote a report on the NHS, and he criticised every government this century for the demise of the NHS.
  The single most damaging government he blamed for the demise of the NHS was the Blair government early this century that signed the contracts they did with the doctors especially the GP's and the building and repair contracts for hospitals that have been a massive rip off wasting millions and ever increasing debt for no return.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 09:10:36 pm
Let me guess.

Talk Radio?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: selby on January 27, 2023, 09:16:43 pm
  Don't you listen or watch it Billy, you don't know what you are missing, you might learn something.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 27, 2023, 09:28:53 pm
Aye.

Right wing gobshites telling the ignorant what they want to hear.

Is Mike Graham still insisting concrete grows like trees, in between his advertising of gambling sites?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: danumdon on January 27, 2023, 10:42:32 pm
I’d say BST is a tadge  sensitive about PFI contracts and usually gets a little hot under the collar when they are mentioned.

I wonder why?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 27, 2023, 10:48:01 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: selby on January 27, 2023, 10:49:09 pm
  Surprised you don't listen to it then Billy, your description sounds spot on for your views except the left footer weight you carry around your neck, I thought it would be up your street, preaching and all that.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: mugnapper on January 28, 2023, 08:33:26 am
https://www.libdems.org.uk/news/adlib-articles/conservative-mps-vote-for-15-more-years-of-sewage-dumping

I think this is a much more fitting monument to the Tories.
Thanks to RoverstillIdie91 from whose thread I nicked the link
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: tyke1962 on January 28, 2023, 09:21:03 am
I’d say BST is a tadge  sensitive about PFI contracts and usually gets a little hot under the collar when they are mentioned.

I wonder why?

They should be an absolute embarrassment to the Labour Party to this day .
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on January 28, 2023, 11:21:33 am
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.

The PPE still exists clearly they bought too much of it.  Unfortunately I doubt they were able to predict how long the pandemic was going to last.  In accounting terms any Ppe still held now has to be written down in value as it's simply worth less than it was.  That's not a cash impact though.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: Ldr on January 28, 2023, 12:13:15 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.

Had one thanks, and the absolute amount (not %) was greater than what my bills have gone up by this year, I am therefore better off. Not all of us in the NHS are in situations that the press would have you all believe
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 28, 2023, 03:49:13 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.

Had one thanks, and the absolute amount (not %) was greater than what my bills have gone up by this year, I am therefore better off. Not all of us in the NHS are in situations that the press would have you all believe
not everyone is in the fortunate situation like yourself, using food banks etc. I work on the railway and haven't had a pay rise for 3 years but gas and electric based on my usage and on my tariff is nearly £3k more a year than before
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: Ldr on January 28, 2023, 06:13:23 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.

Had one thanks, and the absolute amount (not %) was greater than what my bills have gone up by this year, I am therefore better off. Not all of us in the NHS are in situations that the press would have you all believe
not everyone is in the fortunate situation like yourself, using food banks etc. I work on the railway and haven't had a pay rise for 3 years but gas and electric based on my usage and on my tariff is nearly £3k more a year than before

Unlucky, I feel for you but doesn’t change the fact that nhs staff have had a rise
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: ravenrover on January 28, 2023, 06:17:58 pm
Which sector of NHS staff have had a raise?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: Ldr on January 28, 2023, 06:19:32 pm
Which sector of NHS staff have had a raise?

Everyone on an agenda for change contract RR, was paid in Septembers pay and backdated to April, 4% (this includes nurses on and a4c contract)
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: Ldr on January 28, 2023, 06:22:21 pm
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates/agenda-change-pay-rates

For info RR
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: Hounslowrover on January 28, 2023, 07:00:08 pm
Which band level covers nurses?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: Ldr on January 28, 2023, 07:05:23 pm
Which band level covers nurses?

As a rule 5 6 and 7 depending on role, specialism and experience, some exceptions. Newly qualified will be 5. Worth noting an HCA (Health care assistant) is a lower banding.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: roverstillidie91 on January 28, 2023, 07:54:36 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.

Had one thanks, and the absolute amount (not %) was greater than what my bills have gone up by this year, I am therefore better off. Not all of us in the NHS are in situations that the press would have you all believe
not everyone is in the fortunate situation like yourself, using food banks etc. I work on the railway and haven't had a pay rise for 3 years but gas and electric based on my usage and on my tariff is nearly £3k more a year than before

Unlucky, I feel for you but doesn’t change the fact that nhs staff have had a rise
MP's have had a pay rise of 28% in the last 13 years. So may be it is that that's causing inflation to spiral because they say giving public sector workers will fuel inflation. So maybe they should of had a pay freeze
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: ravenrover on January 28, 2023, 09:00:17 pm
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates/agenda-change-pay-rates

For info RR
Thank you
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: albie on January 28, 2023, 09:01:01 pm
Ldr,

A settlement below the inflation rate is a real cut in income.
If that situation has continued for 10 or more years, then the position of workers has grown weaker and weaker in terms of purchasing power.

The knock on effect passes through the economy, with low income groups spending more of their reduced wages on the basics.
Not good for anyone, other than the shareholders of companies supplying essential services.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: SydneyRover on January 28, 2023, 09:07:06 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/149billion-wasted-ppe-covid-tests-29061252

But public sector workers can't have a pay rise. Priorities.

The PPE still exists clearly they bought too much of it.  Unfortunately I doubt they were able to predict how long the pandemic was going to last.  In accounting terms any Ppe still held now has to be written down in value as it's simply worth less than it was.  That's not a cash impact though.

You are forgetting this this yet again pud .......

''Revealed: PPE stockpile was out-of-date when coronavirus hit UK
By Channel 4 News Investigations Team
Channel 4 News obtains full inventory of the national pandemic stockpile – revealing vital safety gear was years out of date''

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-ppe-stockpile-was-out-of-date-when-coronavirus-hit-uk

despite a virtually brand new built for purpose stock purchase and stock control system ministers overruled the department and decided they knew best and how to work the system to their personal advantage.

They wouldn't have had to panic if they had used the knowledge that a pandemic was coming, used the experienced staff they had for procurement and fully funded, equipped and staffed the NHS.

Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: normal rules on January 29, 2023, 10:16:33 pm
I’m still baffled by HST.
Is 125 mph not quick enough ?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: SydneyRover on January 29, 2023, 10:21:10 pm
If you want to travel fast enough from top to base though the UK and on to the continent to reduce polluting air travel it needs to be fast, fast enough for business travel.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: BobG on January 29, 2023, 10:56:45 pm
I keep hearing, and seeing ads for, technology that is making business travel obsolete....

Business travel will never be completely obsolete. Cultural differences have to be dealt with F2F sometimes - just try doing a deal with an Italian or a Chinese without looking him fully in the face - but the need for high speed business travel is falling while the demand to cut t&s costs is inexorably rising. The needs of business is not much of an argument for higher speed trains - especially ones wirh such a limited route availability as is proposed.

BobG
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: SydneyRover on January 29, 2023, 11:23:04 pm
You're probably correct Bg on business travel but an answer has to be found to get people an freight off short and mid haul flights.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: danumdon on January 29, 2023, 11:25:29 pm
Business travel by train compares rather well with internal flights when you factor in the "city centre to city centre" times in total radiating from a London terminus.

The failure of HS2 was in deciding to build a brand new railway through areas classed as AONB. when the original remit was to have a high speed dedicated line from North to South, as soon as the original dedicated passenger HS was reassigned they should of scrapped the original route and just built additional fast lines (125mph-150mph)alongside the existing WCML. This would of had the benefit of increasing capacity for fast and semi fast services that currently have to fight of track access with slow freight traffic as well as building in additional capacity for freight and possibly passenger services to develop over time in line with zero carbon policies.

Would of cost a darn sight less for the same benefits. we don't need 200mph trains in this country, its too small to gain any performance benefit out of it. The additional savings could of gone into modernising the current network in many areas, achieving a much larger cost benefit to the state and taxpayer.

Which spendthrift government originally envisaged this crazy expensive idea?
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: SydneyRover on January 29, 2023, 11:31:59 pm
Dear Mr neutral, which government cannot manage itself never mind the country and rail contracts.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: danumdon on January 29, 2023, 11:58:33 pm
Dear Mr neutral, which government cannot manage itself never mind the country and rail contracts.

Is that you admitting it was originally a Labour idea, i knew you'd be disappointed.!
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: SydneyRover on January 30, 2023, 12:51:45 am
Dear Mr neutral, which government cannot manage itself never mind the country and rail contracts.

Is that you admitting it was originally a Labour idea, i knew you'd be disappointed.!

Happy to go with the facts dd, who has wasted the most money, the project should have been half built by now, I stated in the early stages that if it wasn't started from the north it wouldn't get done.
Title: Re: The monument for a decade and a half of Toryism.
Post by: SydneyRover on January 30, 2023, 12:54:06 am
''Royal Assent was granted for Phase One of HS2 on 23 February 2017. The Full Business Case for the first phase of the scheme between the West Midlands and London, 'HS2 Phase One, was approved in April 2020.16 Nov 2022''

https://www.consultanz.com.au/hs2-high-speed-rail/#:~:text=Phase%20One%3A%20London%20to%20West%20Midlands&text=Royal%20Assent%20was%20granted%20for,was%20approved%20in%20April%202020.