Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: danumdon on January 29, 2023, 09:06:22 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/29/revealed-cressida-dick-sought-500000-to-quit-as-met-chief
Another sorry tale of rewarding gross negligence and failure.
Seems we have now become this country that just can't help itself, instead allowing abject failures to call the shots.
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/29/revealed-cressida-dick-sought-500000-to-quit-as-met-chief
Another sorry tale of rewarding gross negligence and failure.
Seems we have now become this country that just can't help itself, instead allowing abject failures to call the shots.
Everyone will just unfortunately forget about Sarah Everard and the countless women that the recent Met Officer who was charged for rape and god knows else and then something else will come out of the wordwork and everyone will forget about that as well.
I dont believe they covered themselves with glory when they was protesting during covid when Sarah Everard was murdered.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/met-police-commissioner-cressida-dick-six-scandals-resignation-b981978.html
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It's wider rhan just the Met. If you pay peanuts... Normal Rules has graphically described for us the price you, me and everybody are paying for over a decade of refusing to pay public servants properly. We ought to be paying more tax. Not less. Look out of your window. What national success do you see? And enquire why that list is so short...
BobG
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Don't forget this was the commanding office who managed to get Jean Charles de Menezes killed in London for the mighty crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The checks and balances in the Met's system's must be unbelievable.!!
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Don't forget this was the commanding office who managed to get Jean Charles de Menezes killed in London for the mighty crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The checks and balances in the Met's system's must be unbelievable.!!
I was trying to think of something that had occured that had involved her but couldn't think what it was and now you've reminded me.
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It's wider rhan just the Met. If you pay peanuts... Normal Rules has graphically described for us the price you, me and everybody are paying for over a decade of refusing to pay public servants properly. We ought to be paying more tax. Not less. Look out of your window. What national success do you see? And enquire why that list is so short...
BobG
What has the wider topic of failing police pay got to do with an incompetent policewoman who was actually paid well over the odds for her record of high profile failures.
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It's wider rhan just the Met. If you pay peanuts... Normal Rules has graphically described for us the price you, me and everybody are paying for over a decade of refusing to pay public servants properly. We ought to be paying more tax. Not less. Look out of your window. What national success do you see? And enquire why that list is so short...
BobG
What has the wider topic of failing police pay got to do with an incompetent policewoman who was actually paid well over the odds for her record of high profile failures.
Like in a lot of the industries especially the public sector there are too many people sat behind desks not doing anything. Jobs for boys or mates and not enough positions lower down on the ground
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/29/revealed-cressida-dick-sought-500000-to-quit-as-met-chief
Another sorry tale of rewarding gross negligence and failure.
Seems we have now become this country that just can't help itself, instead allowing abject failures to call the shots.
The Labour leader is a big fan apparently but that's the establishment for you .
https://youtu.be/NeKzcPoCxm4
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Those at chief officer group levels are so far detached from real life policing it’s un real. They are politicians first and foremost. Some just wear a police uniform. They have no idea what goes on at pc level.
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Dick joined as a beat copper
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Dick was the ideal candidate for the Job at the time, female, Woke,
And seemingly easy to manipulate!
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It's wider rhan just the Met. If you pay peanuts... Normal Rules has graphically described for us the price you, me and everybody are paying for over a decade of refusing to pay public servants properly. We ought to be paying more tax. Not less. Look out of your window. What national success do you see? And enquire why that list is so short...
BobG
What has the wider topic of failing police pay got to do with an incompetent policewoman who was actually paid well over the odds for her record of high profile failures.
I suppose the bigger picture is of neither interest nor concern to you then dd.
Cheers
BobG
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It's wider rhan just the Met. If you pay peanuts... Normal Rules has graphically described for us the price you, me and everybody are paying for over a decade of refusing to pay public servants properly. We ought to be paying more tax. Not less. Look out of your window. What national success do you see? And enquire why that list is so short...
BobG
What has the wider topic of failing police pay got to do with an incompetent policewoman who was actually paid well over the odds for her record of high profile failures.
I suppose the bigger picture is of neither interest nor concern to you then dd.
Cheers
BobG
I'm quite positive there is a thread currently engaged in this exact topic you raise Bob, would it not be the sensible thing to do to post it where its more relevant?
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Dick joined as a beat copper
Most of them started out as PC’s. It means nothing.
They all reach a point, usually when they get to Supt and above where they become corporate beasts. Politicians. Ground level policing becomes a very distant memory to them. They care only for organisational risk and reputation of their own careers. They care nothing for ground level officers. They say they do, but they don’t.
I’ll give you an example.
A local force has just been given an uplift in funding from the home office. Part of that uplift dictates, not recommends, that this force has to maintain a certain head count of police officers. Because that’s what the govt is pushing. If the force does not adhere, they will be financially penalised. A reduction in overall funding.
But the overall wage bill doesn’t stack up. So half of this forces pcso’ s are being laid off. Some of whom only joined in oct last year. And there will be police staff losing their jobs no doubt soon also. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The chief officer group in this force, and others, are pandering to the governments political will to keep police numbers at a certain level. And they will lay off pcso and police staff to make the books balance. Have a look at Kent online. They laid off 350pcso’s /staff just last year. Here is the kicker. Those extra police officers will be used to backfill some of the community policing jobs the pcsos did. And the jobs of some of the police staff did also. There won’t be any extra cops on the street.
A good example of this is civilian custodians, or those who staff the town enquiry desks at police station, currently employed on police staff contracts. They get laid off, guess what? Yes, a cop gets used to do that job. Getting double the amount of pay and taking that officer away from normal policing.
The chief officers don’t see this, or if they do, they don’t care, because it’s their reputation and career on the line if they stand up to the HO and say no. They are allowing themselves to be bullied by the HO into keeping police numbers acceptable. At the cost of community policing and staff jobs.
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Hmm. Both the Prison Service and the Police also have the massive issue of the fact that if they dispense with the services of an officer recruited by means of Government uplift funding
They have to pay a financial penalty of £18,000!
So as a consequence very few officers are having their service terminated, which means that there are a lot of bad apples which will stay in both organisations severely under perform and drag both services down.
The Royal college of Policing asked Chiefs what they thought of the new much vaunted University scheme, the unanimous push back resulted in the Colege telling Chiefs that they could opt out and revert back to traditional training methods.
One local force will carry on with the scheme due to the pathetic leadership skills of the present Woke chief and her even more Woke Right Reverend Police commissioner.
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Dick joined as a beat copper
Most of them started out as PC’s. It means nothing.
They all reach a point, usually when they get to Supt and above where they become corporate beasts. Politicians. Ground level policing becomes a very distant memory to them. They care only for organisational risk and reputation of their own careers. They care nothing for ground level officers. They say they do, but they don’t.
I’ll give you an example.
A local force has just been given an uplift in funding from the home office. Part of that uplift dictates, not recommends, that this force has to maintain a certain head count of police officers. Because that’s what the govt is pushing. If the force does not adhere, they will be financially penalised. A reduction in overall funding.
But the overall wage bill doesn’t stack up. So half of this forces pcso’ s are being laid off. Some of whom only joined in oct last year. And there will be police staff losing their jobs no doubt soon also. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The chief officer group in this force, and others, are pandering to the governments political will to keep police numbers at a certain level. And they will lay off pcso and police staff to make the books balance. Have a look at Kent online. They laid off 350pcso’s /staff just last year. Here is the kicker. Those extra police officers will be used to backfill some of the community policing jobs the pcsos did. And the jobs of some of the police staff did also. There won’t be any extra cops on the street.
A good example of this is civilian custodians, or those who staff the town enquiry desks at police station, currently employed on police staff contracts. They get laid off, guess what? Yes, a cop gets used to do that job. Getting double the amount of pay and taking that officer away from normal policing.
The chief officers don’t see this, or if they do, they don’t care, because it’s their reputation and career on the line if they stand up to the HO and say no. They are allowing themselves to be bullied by the HO into keeping police numbers acceptable. At the cost of community policing and staff jobs.
Why can't you just say your statement was incorrect
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Dick joined as a beat copper
Most of them started out as PC’s. It means nothing.
They all reach a point, usually when they get to Supt and above where they become corporate beasts. Politicians. Ground level policing becomes a very distant memory to them. They care only for organisational risk and reputation of their own careers. They care nothing for ground level officers. They say they do, but they don’t.
I’ll give you an example.
A local force has just been given an uplift in funding from the home office. Part of that uplift dictates, not recommends, that this force has to maintain a certain head count of police officers. Because that’s what the govt is pushing. If the force does not adhere, they will be financially penalised. A reduction in overall funding.
But the overall wage bill doesn’t stack up. So half of this forces pcso’ s are being laid off. Some of whom only joined in oct last year. And there will be police staff losing their jobs no doubt soon also. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The chief officer group in this force, and others, are pandering to the governments political will to keep police numbers at a certain level. And they will lay off pcso and police staff to make the books balance. Have a look at Kent online. They laid off 350pcso’s /staff just last year. Here is the kicker. Those extra police officers will be used to backfill some of the community policing jobs the pcsos did. And the jobs of some of the police staff did also. There won’t be any extra cops on the street.
A good example of this is civilian custodians, or those who staff the town enquiry desks at police station, currently employed on police staff contracts. They get laid off, guess what? Yes, a cop gets used to do that job. Getting double the amount of pay and taking that officer away from normal policing.
The chief officers don’t see this, or if they do, they don’t care, because it’s their reputation and career on the line if they stand up to the HO and say no. They are allowing themselves to be bullied by the HO into keeping police numbers acceptable. At the cost of community policing and staff jobs.
Why can't you just say your statement was incorrect
Because context, relevance and evidence is important.
I thought you, of all those that post on here, would appreciate that SR. :)
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
I don't think the fire service has the same problems as the police have they nr?
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
I don't think the fire service has the same problems as the police have they nr?
I wouldn’t be too sure of that.
Very well documented reports of widespread mysonginism, bullying and racism in London fire brigade. Which will no doubt be replicated but less reported nationally. Huge issues over funding nationally. Issues with recruitment and retention too.
Oh, and they are about to go on strike over pay and conditions.
Something the police aren’t allowed to do, but I’m pretty sure they would if they could.
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
I don't think the fire service has the same problems as the police have they nr?
I wouldn’t be too sure of that.
Very well documented reports of widespread mysonginism, bullying and racism in London fire brigade. Which will no doubt be replicated but less reported nationally. Huge issues over funding nationally. Issues with recruitment and retention too.
Oh, and they are about to go on strike over pay and conditions.
Something the police aren’t allowed to do, but I’m pretty sure they would if they could.
Terrible problems within the fire service reported all over the news today.
Sexual harassment of female fire fighters plus the sending of pictures of dead people on WhatsApp.
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As you appear to have an answer for everything nr I'm surprised you didn't make it further up in the ranks yourself.
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Have you ever commented in a thread Sydney without being involved in an argument or starting one?
Just asking.
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If that's a joke it's a very poor one
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Talk about not reading the room, very poor taste.
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If that's a joke it's a very poor one
joke is maybe incorrect but it is a way of asking a question that cannot be answered yes or no just like idlers
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
I don't think the fire service has the same problems as the police have they nr?
You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
I don't think the fire service has the same problems as the police have they nr?
Maybe they do https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-64474666
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If that's a joke it's a very poor one
joke is maybe incorrect but it is a way of asking a question that cannot be answered yes or no just like idlers
In your quest to feature in every topic in this part of the forum you have made yourself appear to e an obtuse idiot! Can't you find a footie club in your adoptive country to follow an annoy?
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If that's a joke it's a very poor one
joke is maybe incorrect but it is a way of asking a question that cannot be answered yes or no just like idlers
In your quest to feature in every topic in this part of the forum you have made yourself appear to e an obtuse idiot! Can't you find a footie club in your adoptive country to follow an annoy?
Maybe if you and others stuck to facts instead of insults and trying to justify nonsense my task would be easier? just saying like.
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Have you ever commented in a thread Sydney without being involved in an argument or starting one?
Just asking.
I’m 74 Sydney and never heard the joke.
I have never hit a woman either so I have answered your question though.
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Then this may help you idler
''A loaded question is a form of complex question that contains a controversial assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1]''
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
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Was it a loaded question?
It just seems that just about every thread involves you arguing with various posters. I think that is a pretty fair assumption.
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Are you looking for an argument yourself idler?
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No Sydney after a long hard day stuck waiting at Bradford Royal Infirmary I am looking for a good night’s sleep and I will be turning in in a couple of minutes.
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No Sydney after a long hard day stuck waiting at Bradford Royal Infirmary I am looking for a good night’s sleep and I will be turning in in a couple of minutes.
I sympathise as our hospitals here are stretched but maybe not to the same extent. If you are looking for a way to advance sleep you can look through my back catalogue.
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Isn't it ironic that the subject of this thread has gone from one Dick to an even bigger one!
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Isn't it ironic that the subject of this thread has gone from one Dick to an even bigger one!
hehe bb self flagellation is your forte
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You need to understand that it should be a service rather than a force.
What’s that’s supposed to mean? They provide a service, and are named, by many, still, as a Force.
What about Fire Service.? Some still give them the military term Brigade?
I don't think the fire service has the same problems as the police have they nr?
I wouldn’t be too sure of that.
Very well documented reports of widespread mysonginism, bullying and racism in London fire brigade. Which will no doubt be replicated but less reported nationally. Huge issues over funding nationally. Issues with recruitment and retention too.
Oh, and they are about to go on strike over pay and conditions.
Something the police aren’t allowed to do, but I’m pretty sure they would if they could.
It's good that you and hound have finally accepted there are problems within the police instead of your few bad apples theory (similar to johnson trumpeting the that 20 thousand more police are required don't you think) but where we differ on this point is the fire brigade does not have the power of arrest nor does it have the same level of direct interaction with the public.
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As you appear to have an answer for everything nr I'm surprised you didn't make it further up in the ranks yourself.
I unreservedly withdraw my comment it was uncalled for.
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Sydney,
I have a read on here most days, rarely post but felt the urge to enter the details today having read this thread just to say I think you're a pr!ck and I dare bet many of here will disagree with me.
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https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=285866.0
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I don't agree number19. Without alternative thinking there is absolutely zero development and zero progress. Without alternative thinking the Luddites triumph.
One does not need to agree with everything somebody says. But one should, always, think about the messages they give. If you don't, how will you ever grow and develop? It's being challenged that makes us all reflect and refine and develop our own thinking.
Sydney is a star. Without him, and a few ithers like him, this Board would be utterly sterile.
Sydney: you carry on. It's empty vessels that make most noise.
BobG
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Well Bob, just picking up on that analogy, it's Sydney who's making the most noise!
I'll stop short of name calling but he certainly appears to set out to be confrontational and looking for a "bite".
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He should be praised for it too. You don't have to agree - but we should all bloody well THINK. Without Sydney and Billy who on here makes us actually think? Question our beliefs? Broaden our knowledge? Both Sydney and BST provide huge amounts of evidence and references to support their arguments. That is something that the vast majority of those who oppose them rarely, if ever, do. That, of course, disqualifies them from serious consideration since their arguments are emotionally based rather than factually based.
BobG
PS The empty vessel I was referring to was not Sydney! Empty vessels make a lot of noise; noise without purpose, rhythm or structure. I'm sure you can work out what I was saying.
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Well Bob, what can I say but thanks for your valiant support for open and fact based debate, I have however been deemed argumentative by a/the moderator and as I have previously stated one 'lives or dies by their decisions' I will accept it (and not squeal and carry on and threaten to quit or anything else)
I will however try to ignore the brickbats and isolationists comments and hopefully enjoy genuine fact based debate.
I will leave it that before I get myself into more trouble, I hold no malice towards those that disagree with me or use playground epithets, I occasionally use them myself.
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He should be praised for it too. You don't have to agree - but we should all bloody well THINK. Without Sydney and Billy who on here makes us actually think? Question our beliefs? Broaden our knowledge? Both Sydney and BST provide huge amounts of evidence and references to support their arguments. That is something that the vast majority of those who oppose them rarely, if ever, do. That, of course, disqualifies them from serious consideration since their arguments are emotionally based rather than factually based.
BobG
PS The empty vessel I was referring to was not Sydney! Empty vessels make a lot of noise; noise without purpose, rhythm or structure. I'm sure you can work out what I was saying.
You're right, Sydney makes us think all right; he makes us wonder what kind of bloke would insult a decent guy like Idler with the disgusting comment he made.
It's funny, not long back you were berating people on here for not possessing your level of intellect, and here you are drooling about the posts of someone who's grammar and spelling is appalling.
I'm sure you can work out what I'm saying.
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As you appear to have an answer for everything nr I'm surprised you didn't make it further up in the ranks yourself.
I unreservedly withdraw my comment it was uncalled for.
I’d actually overlooked this comment SR.
If your comment withdrawal is sincere. Then I thank you.
You have shown a side I don’t think Ive seen on here. And perhaps other haven’t either.
But on the note of promotion etc, I’d like to confirm that I joined as a pc, and retired very happily as a pc just over 2 yrs ago. Now this does not tell the full story. Unlike many organisations within the public sector, there is no shame is remaining at the working level of policing. Far from it. I didn’t join till I was 30 having spent 14 yrs I HM forces prior. And with the experience I had gleaned in the Army, I quickly realised that the promotion system within the police was flawed. Quite frankly anyone could get promoted should they wish.For me, that made promotion unworthy. Unjustified. Futile .
Instead I chose to remain in a position where I could influence from the bottom up. Aged 30, I had already gained levels of experience in conflict resolution, peacekeeping, communication skills , public speaking, overall confidence and general bearing way above the standards of many of my so called senior officers.
Over the years I’ve had senior officers come to me to seek advice on matters. You may not believe this but it’s true.
I have enjoyed a position at the lowest rank within the police where I have been held in high regard by most of the seniors I have served under. I have had their ear, and been listened to when It mattered. Trusted. Respected.
I have no regrets around avoiding promotion in the police. None at all.
To do so would mean selling your soul. And you’d only know what I mean by this if you have served.
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Thanks for your generosity NR, I withdrew my comment because I made it in haste, it was childish. I should not have questioned your position in the ranks as it goes against my beliefs that those occupying the power rungs or not even on the ladder are not inherently stupid nor criminal.
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The office of Constable is the most important rank in the Police,On joining they swear an Oath on whatever book they deem as Holy infront of Three Magistrates they swear to serve the Sovereign and protect the Public.If they break that Oath the courts will and do inflict the top end of the Tarriff available, hence Mark Hinchcliffe ex West yorks Police got a 6 month Prison sentence for trying to dodge 2 speeding fines. He was required to resign as was his wife also a Police employee. A member of the Public would be looking at 12 points and a £1400 fine if found guilty of the same offences.
Police Constables who have received the specialist training and experience also run training courses for very Senior Police officers
To be licensed to Command very High level Public events, said Senior Officers will usually also request the assistance of such a Constable to act as their 'Tactical Advisor' The Laws of England and Wales are vast and complex and it is necessary to have such highly trained specialist officers who spend the remainder of their career in that particular function.