Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: roverstillidie91 on February 07, 2023, 09:36:46 pm
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
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Sack the board
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
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I was bereft after the first half.
Bit of luck in the second half and the whole game changed.
Hurst mom for me.
Olowu looked solid when he came on.
Hope Tommy is ok.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
A wins a win, hopefully we can build on it
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Just shows how dire this league is. Don't think DS & Copps are stupid and have probably realised even splashing a bit of cash in Jan might get us a play off push & even if we did get promoted by some small chance, we are miles away from where we need to be. Sometimes you just need to take a step or 2 back to move forward
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I was bereft after the first half.
Bit of luck in the second half and the whole game changed.
Hurst mom for me.
Olowu looked solid when he came on.
Hope Tommy is ok.
Shows what a bit of confidence can do!
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I was bereft after the first half.
Bit of luck in the second half and the whole game changed.
Hurst mom for me.
Olowu looked solid when he came on.
Hope Tommy is ok.
Larkin MoM for me!
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Lakin looks decent and hopefully if he gets a run of games will look even better.
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It was abysmal tonight. Play like that on Saturday Swindon a better team will beat us easily.
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Lets not fool ourselves, for large parts of that game we were awful
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Lakin Reminds me of gillet
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First half was poor, you could see the confidence was shot.
Anderson looks far more comfortable at lest centre back, hurst was awful first half but good in the second half
Brown defended well, better than knoyle I’d say
I though miller had his best game for a while
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We finally started playing a bit of football when Anderson stopped whacking it long. It was driving me insane! Again.
I don’t know what we do with Molyneux, I really don’t. A passenger tonight.
Mitchell made some good saves.
Tommy you would not be surprised if he’s out for the season, it didn’t look good.
Points very welcome but that wasn’t good. I thought it was very similar to the away game, two poor sides. No chance of the play offs.
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We were rubbish for a lot of it. A lot of that is confidence but it feels nothing like a team.
I do really like the new right back though he's much more solid than knoyle. Actually thought the defence were good today, the attack less so.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
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There were some positives tonight. Lakin, Olowu, and Hurst played very well, and Tom was improved. However, we're so low on confidence that we needed a huge slice of luck to get us going.
I'm happy with the 3 points and the clean sheet, but 9 corners to Tranmere and 0 to us tells the tale of the game.
I would imagine that Tranmere fans will feel they've been mugged tonight.
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Lakin for me too, Hurst played well, but needs to attack the goal, he runs away from it most of the time, he will be a very good player at a higher level eventually.
Brown is by far a better player than Knoyle ever was for us.
I’ve liked all the new players DS has managed to get so far.
I know TR has been out for a while but he had a shocker tonight, his touch and passing was poor, luckily Williams came to his rescue making him look like Ronaldo, error after error, he scuffed every ball that came to him in that first half. He was much better in the second half, and seemed to hit everything true.
I struggle to slate players, and always try to find positives, or reasons behind poor form - with Williams I just don’t see it, he’s not good enough. He has pace and can run with the ball, and when he does it he reminds me of Sol Campbell, but I have only seen a handful of decent games from him.
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There were some positives tonight. Lakin, Olowu, and Hurst played very well, and Tom was improved. However, we're so low on confidence that we needed a huge slice of luck to get us going.
I'm happy with the 3 points and the clean sheet, but 9 corners to Tranmere and 0 to us tells the tale of the game.
I would imagine that Tranmere fans will feel they've been mugged tonight.
Not sure about that they weren’t impressed with one of the subs not fit to wear the shirt - not sure who it was aimed at
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There were some positives tonight. Lakin, Olowu, and Hurst played very well, and Tom was improved. However, we're so low on confidence that we needed a huge slice of luck to get us going.
I'm happy with the 3 points and the clean sheet, but 9 corners to Tranmere and 0 to us tells the tale of the game.
I would imagine that Tranmere fans will feel they've been mugged tonight.
Overall I believe we deserved the 3 points. They had a few good chances but didn't take them. First half both teams were poor. 2nd half thought we were the better team in the 5-10mins leading up to the first goal, that gave us confidence and after that I thought we managed the game pretty well and got a well worked 2nd.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Billy only likes to spin it one way though
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Awful display recovered by some luck for a change, and we needed it as that embarrassment of a referee was not going to give us anything, on another day they could of had two sent off.
The formation is still the issue, Miller needs help, every time the ball was near him he had three defenders to deal with, no chance.Hurst spent the first half looking like a boy lost and Moly, well what can you say about him, take him back to Hartlepool, spin him around 20 times then lets start again, what a waste.
Brown and Maxwell looked good and solid tonight, both defended well, it was noticeable the amount of times they got a block in on a ball coming in, something Knoyle excelled at !!
The back three tonight again looked very leggy, tired and stiff, when the ball went backwards again from an early clearance from Williams i thought here we go again but his luck held out tonight, looks likes he's carrying a knock or some cramp, Anderson still looks half the player he was, very wasteful again passing long to no one, Rowe never looked comfortable all night and ended up looking like his hamstrings gone again, sad to see, what a waste of an asset.
Close and Lakin kept at it and put a shift in, they had no one to pass to but persevered, Close was rewarded with a fortunate goal but we need to shoot more, see what happens when you do. Lakin looks a useful addition and could grew into our side.
We got away with one tonight and our issues are still there but its always an occasion when we keep a clean sheet so thankful for small mercy's.
Ho and was anyone else glad to see the can can line at the beginning of the game dropped, if they want to persist with the kneeling then its better done in their playing positions than in the manner previously, always looked like a capitulation before the match has started to me, glad to see someone else has picked up on this
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Lakin for me too, Hurst played well, but needs to attack the goal, he runs away from it most of the time, he will be a very good player at a higher level eventually.
Brown is by far a better player than Knoyle ever was for us.
I’ve liked all the new players DS has managed to get so far.
I know TR has been out for a while but he had a shocker tonight, his touch and passing was poor, luckily Williams came to his rescue making him look like Ronaldo, error after error, he scuffed every ball that came to him in that first half. He was much better in the second half, and seemed to hit everything true.
I struggle to slate players, and always try to find positives, or reasons behind poor form - with Williams I just don’t see it, he’s not good enough. He has pace and can run with the ball, and when he does it he reminds me of Sol Campbell, but I have only seen a handful of decent games from him.
Williams looked really nervous to me in that first half.
His touch was shocking, as if he was scared to make a mistake, which made him make mistakes.
He must have had a read of this forum.
After we scored he was different again and did a really good job.
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If ever a result glossed over a poor performance for virtually the whole game then that was it. It's like filling potholes with sawdust.
The second half kick off. Back to Tom and a hoof 100 foot in the air that lands in their penalty box much to the delight of their keeper.
I hardly saw a decent passage of play all game. At least there were a few nice moments second half v. Hartlepool.
We're a bottom half league 2 team.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Have a look at the stats they really surprised me.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Have a look at the stats they really surprised me.
What stats? For what game?
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2 mid table league 2 teams going at it. We were poor, they were worse.
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Thank goodness for that. 3 points AND a clean sheet.
Far from convincing but much needed.
Good to see Olowu back 2nd half.
Strange to see him play on the right and Anderson on the left.
Close was much improved tonight after his anonymous display on Saturday. Lakin looked ok.
Hurst M.O.M. imo He looked once again the man that can go past people. Just needs to realease ball a bit quicker on occasions.
Molyneux again disappointing. Not seen 1st half, 2nd half never beat his man once. He is almost trying too hard. Very short on confidence.
What worries me is with Biggins out and Rowe & Lakin going off we were reduced to playing Barlow in midfield. Fortunately we were 2-0 up
If the score had been 0-0 we would have been in big trouble.
I think Lavery didn’t start due to a bit of an injury he picked up on Saturday from what I heard. Miller worked hard but needs a goal.
Mitchell was very sound. Some good saves. Comes for crosses and gets them. Rarely punches the ball and that’s good to see.
His distribution is too slow still.
But how anybody can thing he is not a very decent keeper at this level is beyond me.
We are 2 points off the play offs unbelievably. This really is a poor league. If we can put a run of results together then we could still have a successful season.
We do need to play with much more tempo and get that passing crisp and accurate. Far too many mis placed passes tonight.
3 points and it feels so much better after a win. A win is a win.
Let’s hoe that lifts the confidence and it upwards from here.
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In attack particularly, the value of team work was hardly evident, yet with supposedly expert coaching, you wonder what added value Schofield provides.
It was scrappy and they got away with some fortunate escapes when Tranmere were on top particularly in the first half. The individual skill of the opposition players and teamwork was a good deal better for the majority of the 90 minutes. We were never really in control; passing and tactics were haphazard with little mutual understanding.
And yes Campsall, Mitchell is reliable and and it was reassuring to have Olowu back even if the coach could not see his value by starting him. We have two at the back who can head the ball properly now as well, but it no wonder that Tranmere were another team who obviously targeted RSW as the weakest defensive link.
It will be interesting to discover whether Schofield recognised that there is huge scope for improvement. And what was his rationale for not playing Lavery? What little I have seen of him in the previous game suggested that he was more of a team player.
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In attack particularly, the value of team work was hardly evident, yet with supposedly expert coaching, you wonder what added value Schofield provides.
It was scrappy and they got away with some fortunate escapes when Tranmere were on top particularly in the first half. The individual skill of the opposition players and teamwork was a good deal better for the majority of the 90 minutes. We were never really in control; passing and tactics were haphazard with little mutual understanding.
And yes Campsall, Mitchell is reliable and and it was reassuring to have Olowu back even if the coach could not see his value by starting him. We have two at the back who can head the ball properly now as well, but it no wonder that Tranmere were another team who obviously targeted RSW as the weakest defensive link.
It will be interesting to discover whether Schofield recognised that there is huge scope for improvement. And what was his rationale for not playing Lavery? What little I have seen of him in the previous game suggested that he was more of a team player.
Has Schofield slept with your wife or something? You never stop!
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Well you'd kind of hope so as we were playing the side second bottom of the football league. But I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Certainly not Saturday's performance.
Shouldn't really need to say this, but I'd be delighted if tonight was a turning point. But we really didn't play well tonight and we need to do much, much better if we are going to make the playoffs. It's a bit obtuse to argue against that.
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We have bits missing in the side that will cost us the play offs. We badly need two strikers in the side. He overloads the midfield because we lack a good ball winner and also to protect the defence.
I don’t understand loaning Faulkner out. Yes he has things to work on in his game but looking at what we have he is good enough to start for us. Olowu needs to be starting soon.
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How we won that was a real bonus, because we were very poor for most pats of the game, I think this league is the worst for some years
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Let’s be brutally honest.
That wasn’t a good performance at all. We scored with our FIRST meaningful attack and we were absent for the first hour. Yes it’s a win, but as others have said if we play like that down at Swindon it will be a 3-0 ‘away rovers special’ defeat for us.
Nice to win for a change. But is it a turning point in the season? I very much doubt it based on that performance
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Out of interest- Did we have a corner last night?
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No. They had nine corners
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Low point ? Rowes free kick near dugouts that he took short and was it 2 touches later it was passed back to him and out for a throw in
High points ? At last a collosal stroke of luck for 1 0 that was desperately needed
Olowu was immense imo. I stayed behind to boo Haines and applaud JO. The joys of a 70 something
LOL
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Out of interest- Did we have a corner last night?
No.
Unbelievably. That is a very rare stat.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Well you'd kind of hope so as we were playing the side second bottom of the football league. But I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Certainly not Saturday's performance.
Shouldn't really need to say this, but I'd be delighted if tonight was a turning point. But we really didn't play well tonight and we need to do much, much better if we are going to make the playoffs. It's a bit obtuse to argue against that.
Err, the dozen extra shots we had, the greater xG, the amount of the game spent attacking their final third....
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In attack particularly, the value of team work was hardly evident, yet with supposedly expert coaching, you wonder what added value Schofield provides.
It was scrappy and they got away with some fortunate escapes when Tranmere were on top particularly in the first half. The individual skill of the opposition players and teamwork was a good deal better for the majority of the 90 minutes. We were never really in control; passing and tactics were haphazard with little mutual understanding.
And yes Campsall, Mitchell is reliable and and it was reassuring to have Olowu back even if the coach could not see his value by starting him. We have two at the back who can head the ball properly now as well, but it no wonder that Tranmere were another team who obviously targeted RSW as the weakest defensive link.
It will be interesting to discover whether Schofield recognised that there is huge scope for improvement. And what was his rationale for not playing Lavery? What little I have seen of him in the previous game suggested that he was more of a team player.
Has Schofield slept with your wife or something? You never stop!
Let's hope he hasn't slept with his wife. We can all do without a 1000-word diatribe on how Schofield got all the positions wrong.
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His wife maybe trusts the process? Just a thought!
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Would it have been wrong to Give Joseph MoM?
Thought both Maxwell and Brown did well tonight especially Maxwell 2nd half, they seemed to be focusing more up their right hand side
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Well you'd kind of hope so as we were playing the side second bottom of the football league. But I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Certainly not Saturday's performance.
Shouldn't really need to say this, but I'd be delighted if tonight was a turning point. But we really didn't play well tonight and we need to do much, much better if we are going to make the playoffs. It's a bit obtuse to argue against that.
Err, the dozen extra shots we had, the greater xG, the amount of the game spent attacking their final third....
We must have very different ideas about football. I never once in the whole match on Saturday felt "we are going to win this".
As for xG in this division...I'll just note that our value on Saturday was only marginally lower than Mansfield's against us the week before. Which says all you need to know about how reliable that metric is.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Well you'd kind of hope so as we were playing the side second bottom of the football league. But I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Certainly not Saturday's performance.
Shouldn't really need to say this, but I'd be delighted if tonight was a turning point. But we really didn't play well tonight and we need to do much, much better if we are going to make the playoffs. It's a bit obtuse to argue against that.
Err, the dozen extra shots we had, the greater xG, the amount of the game spent attacking their final third....
We must have very different ideas about football. I never once in the whole match on Saturday felt "we are going to win this".
As for xG in this division...I'll just note that our value on Saturday was only marginally lower than Mansfield's against us the week before. Which says all you need to know about how reliable that metric is.
It means Mansfield got lucky and we didn’t
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I want to introduce the phrase "Born again
Christian* division2 teams"..
Gillingham Colchester and Hartlepool are now fully converted with double figure January signings
Homework for BST to produce a graph of the 3 match moving average XG for Gillingham
Could say it was from zero to hero
XG is for idiots in this low level league
Moving average XG less so see Leyton Orient now cured of their ailment (as my bank manager continues to do summersalts). As this free money is being
" Given" away
* "Old Moore and his Almanac" "allegedly" tried to convert us into one of those
As "Watters" who I expected to be "black" until i belatedly learned otherwise and then "Jesus look alike" May were both got rid as they
Didn't "CONVERT" (chances).
And "no hopers" were rescued from obscurity instead... After a hell of a lot more than 40 days inthe wilderness
... To be continued
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Dickos.
Hang on a minute. I'm going to sit down and try to get my head round this.
You're saying that our performance against Hartlepool was as dominating and as productive in terms of good goalscoring chances as Mansfield's against us?
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Thinking back to our last stint in L2 and the majority of the time we were poor (or the game was) that’s just the level we’re at. Back then it always felt like we had a 20min spell when we were just too good and that was the game.
Yes when we are bad we are worse than when we were bad that season. Reality is we might not be as far away as we think. The f we stop conceding stupid goals the performances would have chance to build
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We clearly aren't far off play-off material. The table says so. Four pints from the matches against Hartlepool x2 and Colchester would have us in 6th place.
But we are a country mile off where we were in 16/17. Then we had the core of a competitive L1 squad.
Coppinger
Blair
Wright
Butler
Baudry
Marquis
Rowe
May
Mason
Position by position, we don't have players remotely as good as those.
That squad would have massively underachieved if it had not got automatic promotion. The current one will overachieve if it makes the top 7.
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Well you'd kind of hope so as we were playing the side second bottom of the football league. But I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Certainly not Saturday's performance.
Shouldn't really need to say this, but I'd be delighted if tonight was a turning point. But we really didn't play well tonight and we need to do much, much better if we are going to make the playoffs. It's a bit obtuse to argue against that.
I fully expected 3 points from the last two games although I thought it would be the other way round. We are where we are and could still potentially end up in the playoffs purely because it is such a bad lge. The crucial thing now is recruitment in the Summer and we should be well on the way to sorting out what we want to do then, who we want to keep, what type of player we wish to recruit to be able to become top of the pile of frankly a very poor set of teams but also havng an eye on a possible promotion (last thing we need is promotion and then being completely out of our depth in lge 1 if we got there).
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2 points off the play-offs.
11 points off 3rd.
Confidence boost this win will hopefully enable us to kick on.
Aye. But we are still bang out of form. Replay that match tonight a dozen times and we might win 2. The points are welcome of course, but we are not making the playoffs with that sort of performance.
Similar could be said about Saturday. Replay that game and we would have won the majority.
Well you'd kind of hope so as we were playing the side second bottom of the football league. But I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Certainly not Saturday's performance.
Shouldn't really need to say this, but I'd be delighted if tonight was a turning point. But we really didn't play well tonight and we need to do much, much better if we are going to make the playoffs. It's a bit obtuse to argue against that.
Err, the dozen extra shots we had, the greater xG, the amount of the game spent attacking their final third....
We must have very different ideas about football. I never once in the whole match on Saturday felt "we are going to win this".
As for xG in this division...I'll just note that our value on Saturday was only marginally lower than Mansfield's against us the week before. Which says all you need to know about how reliable that metric is.
What do you mean xG in this division? It works in all divisions. Mansfield's goals were an O.G, 2 chances that on average would be scored around 25% of the time and one that would be scored around half the time, then they had a few other lower chances in the game.
Some people just don't understand or accept what xG is, so if that's you then let's be honest there's little point carrying on this discussion. I just hope the people at our club make an effort with it and other metrics, such as xA, because the ones that make the effort with data are the clubs that have success in recent years. Most other clubs get left behind. Even at this level Forest Green showed that last season.
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DO.
I do understand the concept of xG. What I'm less sure about is the detailed effort that goes into producing free data on this at our level.
Regarding the Mansfield game, the first goal came about because they put a dangerous ball across the six yard box with a striker lurking behind Anderson. The fact that it was an own goal doesn't in any way lessen the fact that it was a dangerous chance.
The second goal was the result of sustained pressure, resulting in the ball pinging around our box and giving a player 15 yards out a free volley with no defender within 3 yards of him. That's a very strong goal opportunity.
The third goal was a giveaway because of awful play by Mitchell and Williams. It was well taken but you'd expect a decent professional striker to score those more often than not.
The fourth was an unimpeded run to the edge of the area, followed by a weak attempted challenge, leaving the striker with the keeper to beat from 18 yards. A good finish, but hardly a wonder strike out of the blue.
On top of that, there was a spell of play at 1-0 where Mansfield had two shots blocked in the centre of the area, then two one-on-ones with Mitchell on the edge of the six yard box, including one that he saved with his face.
At 3-0, Mansfield had another unmarked shot from 15 yards that was inadvertently deflected over the bar when heading in.
Also at 3-0, they had a corner which resulted in a scramble with the ball hacked off the line.
It stretches credulity to breaking point to say Mansfield had as many really good goalscoring chances as we had vs Hartlepool. My recollection is we had a couple of speculative long range efforts that were comfortably saved or missed, One decent chance for Hurst and another one for Lavery.
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The second goal was a volley which was on the edge of a box crowded by a few players, I'd assume most volleys like that would go wide or over based on them going through thousands of shots/goals and assigning that chance to that percentage. It isn't just made up numbers, it's based on historical chances and how often they've gone in.
We had a lot of small chances in the Hartlepool game, but if you have that many small chances then the odds are likely one will eventually go in. There was a few higher quality chance, like Miller's free header from a set piece in the middle of the first half.
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DO
As I say. I don't believe anyone is studying L2 matches, pondering each specific chance and comparing that to a database of specific chances with similar nuances and then giving that data away for free. At best, they might have a blunt approach that harvests data on shot distances from goal.
By the way, go and watch the Mansfield match again.
https://youtu.be/4uuhXwFFAdA
That second goal. He was well inside the area, no more than 15 yards out. The ball sat up perfectly to be struck. There were several defenders in the box but he had no-one within three yards of him as the ball fell and he had a clear line to the left side of the goal. Nelson, I think, made a desperate dive to try to block the shot, but the Mansfield player didn't have to rush his shot to beat that. He'd got his shot away miles before the defender's foot got near him.
I'd expect any decent pro to get a good, strong shot on target 9 times out of 10 in those circumstances.
That one chance was a cleaner chance than anything we manufactured against Hartlepool, with the exception of Lavery's shot straight at the keeper. And if you're talking about the sum of mlcrochances, it came immediately after they'd had another shot from inside the box blocked.
I'm genuinely bemused that anyone can watch the Mansfield and Hartlepool matches and come away with the conclusion that both home sides made broadly the same number of serious chances.
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We clearly aren't far off play-off material. The table says so. Four pints from the matches against Hartlepool x2 and Colchester would have us in 6th place.
But we are a country mile off where we were in 16/17. Then we had the core of a competitive L1 squad.
Coppinger
Blair
Wright
Butler
Baudry
Marquis
Rowe
May
Mason
Position by position, we don't have players remotely as good as those.
That squad would have massively underachieved if it had not got automatic promotion. The current one will overachieve if it makes the top 7.
And Houghton. Now the lynchpin of a midfield competing at the top of league one.
All the talk seems to focus on the Head Coach / manager. Both McSheffrey and Schofield had every comment dissected and held up in front of everyone by the critics. Truth is that the squad of players will always be the defining factor.
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DO.
I do understand the concept of xG. What I'm less sure about is the detailed effort that goes into producing free data on this at our level.
Regarding the Mansfield game, the first goal came about because they put a dangerous ball across the six yard box with a striker lurking behind Anderson. The fact that it was an own goal doesn't in any way lessen the fact that it was a dangerous chance.
The second goal was the result of sustained pressure, resulting in the ball pinging around our box and giving a player 15 yards out a free volley with no defender within 3 yards of him. That's a very strong goal opportunity.
The third goal was a giveaway because of awful play by Mitchell and Williams. It was well taken but you'd expect a decent professional striker to score those more often than not.
The fourth was an unimpeded run to the edge of the area, followed by a weak attempted challenge, leaving the striker with the keeper to beat from 18 yards. A good finish, but hardly a wonder strike out of the blue.
On top of that, there was a spell of play at 1-0 where Mansfield had two shots blocked in the centre of the area, then two one-on-ones with Mitchell on the edge of the six yard box, including one that he saved with his face.
At 3-0, Mansfield had another unmarked shot from 15 yards that was inadvertently deflected over the bar when heading in.
Also at 3-0, they had a corner which resulted in a scramble with the ball hacked off the line.
It stretches credulity to breaking point to say Mansfield had as many really good goalscoring chances as we had vs Hartlepool. My recollection is we had a couple of speculative long range efforts that were comfortably saved or missed, One decent chance for Hurst and another one for Lavery.
Sorry to be pedantic, BST, but at no point in the game were we losing 3-0. In fact, at the time we made it 2-1, we were ripping them apart.
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Dickos.
Hang on a minute. I'm going to sit down and try to get my head round this.
You're saying that our performance against Hartlepool was as dominating and as productive in terms of good goalscoring chances as Mansfield's against us?
I don’t think the Mansfield game was dominant, at 2-1 we were battering them and they were scared to death. A big lump upfield changed that and that was their only foray into our half, even at 3-1 we missed two absolute sitters
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SS
Yep, my mistake.
Dickos. That's not the point under discussion. I was wrong to us the term "dominating". The point is, whether there's any sense in the Mansfield xG Vs us, and our xG Vs Hartlepool being similar. I find in baffling that anyone could watch those two matches and answer "yes".
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SS
Yep, my mistake.
Dickos. That's not the point under discussion. I was wrong to us the term "dominating". The point is, whether there's any sense in the Mansfield xG Vs us, and our xG Vs Hartlepool being similar. I find in baffling that anyone could watch those two matches and answer "yes".
Use, sorry Billy (laughing emoji), & SS for beating you to it.
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SS
Yep, my mistake.
Dickos. That's not the point under discussion. I was wrong to us the term "dominating". The point is, whether there's any sense in the Mansfield xG Vs us, and our xG Vs Hartlepool being similar. I find in baffling that anyone could watch those two matches and answer "yes".
Mansfield had a handful of decent chances from their 11 shots.
We had lots of very low quality chances that add up from our 17 shots.
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SS
Yep, my mistake.
Dickos. That's not the point under discussion. I was wrong to us the term "dominating". The point is, whether there's any sense in the Mansfield xG Vs us, and our xG Vs Hartlepool being similar. I find in baffling that anyone could watch those two matches and answer "yes".
Mansfield had a handful of decent chances from their 11 shots.
We had lots of very low quality chances that add up from our 17 shots.
I've pointed out 7 very good chances that Mansfield had.
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The reason we have been terrible the last 2 years now is because we have recruited terribly. The only exception would be the brief period at very tail end of Moore and then Butler where we had a decent squad of players, but confidence had seemingly totally gone.
Since then though we have had several windows of very poor recruitment under successive managers. As a result we have had a poor group of players that any manager was going to struggle to mould into a credible side.
Appointing McSheffrey was patently an absurd decision but Wellens and Schofield are at worse average managers, it was the players they had or recruited that led us to the results we had.
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SS
Yep, my mistake.
Dickos. That's not the point under discussion. I was wrong to us the term "dominating". The point is, whether there's any sense in the Mansfield xG Vs us, and our xG Vs Hartlepool being similar. I find in baffling that anyone could watch those two matches and answer "yes".
Mansfield had a handful of decent chances from their 11 shots.
We had lots of very low quality chances that add up from our 17 shots.
I've pointed out 7 very good chances that Mansfield had.
FFS, no one's disagreed with you on that. Each of those chances will have been assigned a xG score based on historical probabilities similar chances have resulted in a goal and that'll add up to a similar number compared to our lots of little xG scores. It's not that difficult and something you don't need to let ruin your life.
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Per the Athletic, our xG against Hartlepool was 0.48 and Mansfield’s against us was 1.07. I wouldn’t call those similar numbers, where have you seen that they are the same, DonnyOsmond?
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Per the Athletic, our xG against Hartlepool was 0.48 and Mansfield’s against us was 1.07. I wouldn’t call those similar numbers, where have you seen that they are the same, DonnyOsmond?
That was BSTs original comment. Different providers calculate it differently anyway. Fotmob has us v Hartlepool at 0.95, Mansfield v us at 1.07. WyScout has both slightly more elevated than that.
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Per the Athletic, our xG against Hartlepool was 0.48 and Mansfield’s against us was 1.07. I wouldn’t call those similar numbers, where have you seen that they are the same, DonnyOsmond?
I was looking here https://footystats.org/clubs/doncaster-rovers-fc-231
Rovers Vs Hartlepool 1.31
Mansfield Vs us 1.56
Those are a world away from the figures you're quoting, which kind of makes my point: that free xG stats at our level are finger in the wind guesswork.
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Per the Athletic, our xG against Hartlepool was 0.48 and Mansfield’s against us was 1.07. I wouldn’t call those similar numbers, where have you seen that they are the same, DonnyOsmond?
I was looking here https://footystats.org/clubs/doncaster-rovers-fc-231
Rovers Vs Hartlepool 1.31
Mansfield Vs us 1.56
Those are a world away from the figures you're quoting, which kind of makes my point: that free xG stats at our level are finger in the wind guesswork.
I'm pretty sure DO has posted on here before that he doesn't use free stats and pays for the platform, so I would imagine that data is more truthful as it's what clubs are presumably using.
I sincerely hope our club are using such stats (from a reliable source, of course) and aren't dismissing them as guesswork.
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SS
Yep, my mistake.
Dickos. That's not the point under discussion. I was wrong to us the term "dominating". The point is, whether there's any sense in the Mansfield xG Vs us, and our xG Vs Hartlepool being similar. I find in baffling that anyone could watch those two matches and answer "yes".
Mansfield had a handful of decent chances from their 11 shots.
We had lots of very low quality chances that add up from our 17 shots.
I've pointed out 7 very good chances that Mansfield had.
FFS, no one's disagreed with you on that. Each of those chances will have been assigned a xG score based on historical probabilities similar chances have resulted in a goal and that'll add up to a similar number compared to our lots of little xG scores. It's not that difficult and something you don't need to let ruin your life.
can i suggest if you want to learn how each "platform"calculates the match odds ( i presume these sites come up with match odds ? "then you compare what major variations that will exist for the friends re-united match on Saturday - I shouldn't have to tell you whats been going on
Mansfield v The Gillingham Lazurus's (who haved scored more goals in their last 4 matches (8 goals iin their last 4 league matches) :) than in their previous 23 where they scored 7 :crying:
Surely this XG lark is streetwise to own goals - The Carlisle center half rolled the ball into his own net against Hopeless Harrogate - and by any logical system that doesn't count as a win.
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In this assessment scheme it would be interesting to discover whether the pace of the shot is computed as part of the measure because speed can increase the chances of beating the defence and Goalkeeper.
If it isn’t part of the system, I would observe that the power behind shots in the Premier League by the players in those teams is generally noticeably greater. This factor would make the x value apply most significantly amongst the average ability players and diminish the accuracy as shooting velocity reduces. Thus they would be less reliable in League 2.
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The reason we have been terrible the last 2 years now is because we have recruited terribly. The only exception would be the brief period at very tail end of Moore and then Butler where we had a decent squad of players, but confidence had seemingly totally gone.
Since then though we have had several windows of very poor recruitment under successive managers. As a result we have had a poor group of players that any manager was going to struggle to mould into a credible side.
Appointing McSheffrey was patently an absurd decision but Wellens and Schofield are at worse average managers, it was the players they had or recruited that led us to the results we had.
Bit harsh to criticise schofield recruitment isn’t it?
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I am positive DS will eventually turn us around. People saying he is poor, not the right man, or even want him out, it’s just bonkers. This sh**t show is down to the 3 managers before him, and it will take time to unravel, it will not happen overnight.
His signings so far are better than we currently have, or had - I’m quite excited by what could come in the summer if they are anything to go by.
The team he inherited are shot confidence wise, and need to try and find a run of games - they are also scared of how the crowd are reacting