Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: scawsby steve on February 25, 2023, 05:55:56 pm
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Well that's it this season for me. I renewed my ST last week, and brought 3 people today, who obviously won't be coming again.
The atmosphere was fantastic, and the crowd got behind the players, but this team and manager really are clueless. There's no attacking play, there's no passing movement, there's no urgency.
I hope for better next season, but I can't see any evidence of how that will happen.
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Bit of an over reaction in my opinion, I thought we did ok until we lost our way around 60 mins
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Bit of an over reaction in my opinion, I thought we did ok until we lost our way around 60 mins
This is correct. Also thought our support was a bit shit. Not that the Bradford lads were much better until they scored.
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Absolutely hopeless, clueless, utterly ineffective tactics letting down a decent bunch of players at League 2 level.
One up front totally isolated.
5 at the back. At home.
Only 2 in central midfield so we get overrun match after match allowing the opposition to dominate position.
Our approach to goal kicks is atrocious. Constantly putting ourselves under immediate pressure.
We're not set up to attack. We're not set up to create chances. We're not set up to score goals. Heck we're not even set up to get into the opponents half.
Watching Rovers is just so boring at the moment. I'm questioning why I'm bothering going to be honest.
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Have to say I am desperately disappointed with our attacking play today.
We created so little. To be fair it was clueless.
If I was George Miller I would be pulling my hair out. I would be asking the manager how I am supposed to score any goals when getting absolutely no service in the penalty area.
Has to now change formation and go 4-4-2. There are other teams that play it and because it’s not fashionable it would seem, does not mean we can’t be more successful playing it. We have the players to play that system so give it a go i say.
Whether DS will I am not sure as he seems reluctant to change anything.
Is it stubbiness or stupidity or both.
We are not going to finish top 7 if we don’t create chances and subsequently don’t score goals.
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Well that's it this season for me. I renewed my ST last week, and brought 3 people today, who obviously won't be coming again.
The atmosphere was fantastic, and the crowd got behind the players, but this team and manager really are clueless. There's no attacking play, there's no passing movement, there's no urgency.
I hope for better next season, but I can't see any evidence of how that will happen.
Agreed, we create next to nothing, & when we do manage a cross there's 1 player in the box, it's pathetic. At 1-0 Bradford were still positive committing players forward & getting in crosses. We had absolutely nothing going forward, nowhere near good enough, would like to know if DS is happy with his process of creating virtually no chances, game in, game out.
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Have to say I am desperately disappointed with our attacking play today.
We created so little. To be fair it was clueless.
If I was George Miller I would be pulling my hair out. I would be asking the manager how I am supposed to score any goals when getting absolutely no service in the penalty area.
Has to now change formation and go 4-4-2. There are other teams that play it and because it’s not fashionable it would seem, does not mean we can’t be more successful playing it. We have the players to play that system so give it a go i say.
Whether DS will I am not sure as he seems reluctant to change anything.
Is it stubbiness or stupidity or both.
We are not going to finish top 7 if we don’t create chances and subsequently don’t score goals.
With how Miller has finished any decent chance he has got recently I think it has saved him the embarrassment the lack of chances today.
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Absolutely hopeless, clueless, utterly ineffective tactics letting down a decent bunch of players at League 2 level.
One up front totally isolated.
5 at the back. At home.
Only 2 in central midfield so we get overrun match after match allowing the opposition to dominate position.
Our approach to goal kicks is atrocious. Constantly putting ourselves under immediate pressure.
We're not set up to attack. We're not set up to create chances. We're not set up to score goals. Heck we're not even set up to get into the opponents half.
Watching Rovers is just so boring at the moment. I'm questioning why I'm bothering going to be honest.
Can't argue with any of that, & we are being asked to take someone with us to games? give me a break. For me the manager needs to play more offensive football from now on in, fans aren't stupid, they won't keep watching pretty football that doesn't create chances.
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We are simply not good enough to play the ball out from goal kicks.
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What was up with Maxwell today? Think we missed him, TR looked a bit heavy legged.
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Agree about Rowe. There was a ball into the corner, second half. Looked a good enough ball but Tommy didn’t make it.
I’m also now nervous every time we get a goal kick! That can’t be right.
Poor from everybody today.
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Absolutely hopeless, clueless, utterly ineffective tactics letting down a decent bunch of players at League 2 level.
One up front totally isolated.
5 at the back. At home.
Only 2 in central midfield so we get overrun match after match allowing the opposition to dominate position.
Our approach to goal kicks is atrocious. Constantly putting ourselves under immediate pressure.
We're not set up to attack. We're not set up to create chances. We're not set up to score goals. Heck we're not even set up to get into the opponents half.
Watching Rovers is just so boring at the moment. I'm questioning why I'm bothering going to be honest.
We had 3 in central midfield.
Close, Biggins and Lakin.
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“The atmosphere was fantastic” ? We’re you in the Bradford end? we were very very quiet in the south stand today. It was totally void of any atmosphere, flat.
The game was relatively even with us edging the first half, they were better in the second, and created some good chances. For all our good first half we created very little, I don’t remember a shot in the first half?
This creating chances is a big issue at the moment- we do look stronger in defence at the moment ( better than we have at least) but we create next to nothing for any forward to thrive on.
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Absolutely hopeless, clueless, utterly ineffective tactics letting down a decent bunch of players at League 2 level.
One up front totally isolated.
5 at the back. At home.
Only 2 in central midfield so we get overrun match after match allowing the opposition to dominate position.
Our approach to goal kicks is atrocious. Constantly putting ourselves under immediate pressure.
We're not set up to attack. We're not set up to create chances. We're not set up to score goals. Heck we're not even set up to get into the opponents half.
Watching Rovers is just so boring at the moment. I'm questioning why I'm bothering going to be honest.
We had 3 in central midfield.
Close, Biggins and Lakin.
No we didn't Lakin played out wide. On the left.
There was no change to the tactics or formation. There never is.
When Molyneux replaced Biggins, Molyneux went out wide and Lakin went into central midfield.
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Absolutely hopeless, clueless, utterly ineffective tactics letting down a decent bunch of players at League 2 level.
One up front totally isolated.
5 at the back. At home.
Only 2 in central midfield so we get overrun match after match allowing the opposition to dominate position.
Our approach to goal kicks is atrocious. Constantly putting ourselves under immediate pressure.
We're not set up to attack. We're not set up to create chances. We're not set up to score goals. Heck we're not even set up to get into the opponents half.
Watching Rovers is just so boring at the moment. I'm questioning why I'm bothering going to be honest.
We had 3 in central midfield.
Close, Biggins and Lakin.
No we didn't Lakin played out wide
I think we were watching different games.
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DS needs to either 're think the tactics and formation or go. We will not get out this division with him imo while playing that way. I'd wager teams like to play us atm.
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Lakin played in the left side attacking midfielder position from where I was sat in 1st half.
Clueless is a bit harsh imo. We probably edged the 1st hour without creating much. We certainly played more attractive football.
We lost because we play stupid football at the back. Bradford had a couple of good chances and instead of sensing that we need to play safe for 10min Mitchell did a waste of space pass.
They were better in the 18 yard boxes in the end.
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Absolutely hopeless, clueless, utterly ineffective tactics letting down a decent bunch of players at League 2 level.
One up front totally isolated.
5 at the back. At home.
Only 2 in central midfield so we get overrun match after match allowing the opposition to dominate position.
Our approach to goal kicks is atrocious. Constantly putting ourselves under immediate pressure.
We're not set up to attack. We're not set up to create chances. We're not set up to score goals. Heck we're not even set up to get into the opponents half.
Watching Rovers is just so boring at the moment. I'm questioning why I'm bothering going to be honest.
We had 3 in central midfield.
Close, Biggins and Lakin.
Lakin was on the left. Wideish left/ inside left.
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Lakin certainly didn't play as an out and out wide player. I had him as on the forward left of centre midfield. Point being, he was more central than, say Molyneux and Hurst in our usual formation. The way we set up in the first half, we had none of our front 5 as wide as those two normally are.
Playing three in central midfield doesn't mean having all three holding hands in the centre circle.
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Lakin played where molyneux usually plays
Didn’t suit him, he’s been great for us in centre midfield, wasn’t as effective today playing further forward
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Not sure what the obsession is with Lakin. Weak, can't tackle, bad passer. Can cary the ball okay but that's about it. Biggins and Close are better. Back up option for me.
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Shame Maxwell was out as the role Lakin played is ideal for Rowe imo
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Disagree
Think he’s been great in the previous games,
Passes the ball quicker, presses quicker and gets about the pitch better.
But no good sticking him out wide left
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Just don’t have him on corner duty
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DS needs to either 're think the tactics and formation or go. We will not get out this division with him imo while playing that way. I'd wager teams like to play us atm.
Even the Sutton fans last week were singing 'can we play you every week'.
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DS needs to either 're think the tactics and formation or go. We will not get out this division with him imo while playing that way. I'd wager teams like to play us atm.
I think there is a fair chance we'll be getting out of this division if we continue to play this way all next season.
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There are signs that it’s coming together but we consistently make it hard for ourselves. I get DS wants to play a certain way but he needs to wake up to the fact he has, and will continue to have L2 players.
Until we stop letting the opposition have a free hit by over playing we won’t be getting close to promotion.
Don’t want him to go or anything he just needs to tighten up and maybe have a think about insisting with 3 centre half’s which is clearly limiting our ability to get bodies into scoring areas.
If he can do this short term maybe eventually we’ll have the players to do it exactly the way he wants
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“The atmosphere was fantastic” ? We’re you in the Bradford end? we were very very quiet in the south stand today. It was totally void of any atmosphere, flat.
The game was relatively even with us edging the first half, they were better in the second, and created some good chances. For all our good first half we created very little, I don’t remember a shot in the first half?
This creating chances is a big issue at the moment- we do look stronger in defence at the moment ( better than we have at least) but we create next to nothing for any forward to thrive on.
We did have a shot in the first half.
Brown cut inside and hit a left footer which the keeper got down to on his left and pushed the ball out for a corner.
As I recall his only other save in the match was after one of their defenders got his head to a free kick in the first half, the ball looked to be going into the top corner but the keeper tipped it over the bar.
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Rovers are the easiest team to prepare to play, because of the obsession with a lone striker.
Basically we are playing in 2/3 of the pitch, leaving the attacking third unpopulated.
Opponents are on easy street in terms of defending, so they can afford to contest in numbers higher up.
In addition, putting pressure on ourselves by tippy tappy at the back draws the game towards our goal without any impetus to the counter.
DS has still not understood that the biggest problem we have is that his game plan does not suit the players we have.
It is inexplicable that he continues to make the same mistake, over and over again.
Now starting to think that he is an idiot.....I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't see it as things stand.
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I don't know what it is with DS but he seems to be a manager who gets all the big calls wrong.
Today we played a team with two very experienced midfielders in the middle, when we should of been pressing them and keeping the tempo high what did we do, we played snail slow from the back, straight into their hands, it allowed them to push up in midfield, close us down at the back and prevented us from gaining any forward momentum. Worse still we needed pace and guile on the flanks, who do we have who can give a decent impression of that skill, yes that's it Moly, where was he, sat in the stand with us, instead we play a player who should of been in the middle and harrying their holding midfielders.
We could all see where the game was going from around the hour mark, but DS was very slow in implementing a change, allowing them to gain the ascendency that led to their scrappy goal.
In the meantime we still persist with the slow and painful for us playing out from the back, now im no football coach or tactician but even i know that playing this way is supposed to draw the opposition onto you to then allow a quick counter strike forward and getting your attacking players up the field and attacking them when they are stretched and lacking in numbers, did it happen, even once today, did it buggery we insisted on playing a flat back 5 which in effect caused us to have even less going forward when we had a break.
These tactics area all well and good for PL players who have skill, speed, guile and strength, we have very little of that in our side and it looks a piss poor imitation, there's a reason these players are plying their trade at the lowest level of pro football, to me the managers not as bright as he thinks if he keeps on insisting we play a system that will just not work for us, our players and more importantly us mugs who pay for it all.
To me the seasons gone, again, the experiment with our management team sounded good but we don't have the finances to bring in the right type of players to function in it and to push us into a play off position, we are just too brittle, our supposedly better ball players cannot function in the white hot heat of a fourth tier game!
What i'd like to see is some honest truths banded around in the dressing room, when we look at our playing resources and who we want to keep next season and offer contracts too it looks bleak, i'd let most go, start again and i'd also relieve the head coach if he cannot get a tune out of players who should be capable at this level but are playing a system that they are just not good enough for.
Thinking back to the days of Dave Penny and his attacking 442 with honest lower league players who knew what was required and did what it said on the tin, if we can't afford the right type of player then i want to see us play a simple 442 with big strong athletic players, they may be lacking in finesse and skill, but the honest endeavour and graft will give us something to watch that does not bore the pants of everyone in the ground.
Im really struggling to remember a game that i really enjoyed watching, win, lose or draw, the product now is just an awful regurgitation of what gets played in the upper leagues, it just does not transplant well to this bottom tier, i don't care what anyone says, i'd rather watch a Steve Evans type team than this gunge.
Utterly pissed off with it all, sick of going home thinking I've wasted another couple of hours of my life at this soulless and penny pinching club. The product since McCann pissed off has been truly, truly dire and getting worse, if such a thing exists.
We truly are in the brown stuff with no easy way out. more than anything the club needs a full reset, owners, players, manger the works. Roll on another wasted season, with this mentality we will struggle to maintain this position next season, you don't need to be mystic meg to see, it truly stinks.
And like a real sucker for punishment we've already paid for another season of thrills!!
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DS needs to either 're think the tactics and formation or go. We will not get out this division with him imo while playing that way. I'd wager teams like to play us atm.
Even the Sutton fans last week were singing 'can we play you every week'.
The Sutton fans hardly made a noise until they were 2 up and then it was little more than a whisper?
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The most infuriating thing for me today, was when we conceded, i thought well at least we will come at them now.
It was totally the opposite. Bradford raised their game not us and pressed for the second goal.
Left it to the 80th min to get two strikers on the pitch, add to that the ridiculous playing out from the back, leaves me thinking does DS really know what he is doing?
A Yorkshire derby at home, and all we can do is try hit the opposition on the counter.
Awful tactics all round.
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I don't know what it is with DS but he seems to be a manager who gets all the big calls wrong.
Today we played a team with two very experienced midfielders in the middle, when we should of been pressing them and keeping the tempo high what did we do, we played snail slow from the back, straight into their hands, it allowed them to push up in midfield, close us down at the back and prevented us from gaining any forward momentum. Worse still we needed pace and guile on the flanks, who do we have who can give a decent impression of that skill, yes that's it Moly, where was he, sat in the stand with us, instead we play a player who should of been in the middle and harrying their holding midfielders.
We could all see where the game was going from around the hour mark, but DS was very slow in implementing a change, allowing them to gain the ascendency that led to their scrappy goal.
In the meantime we still persist with the slow and painful for us playing out from the back, now im no football coach or tactician but even i know that playing this way is supposed to draw the opposition onto you to then allow a quick counter strike forward and getting your attacking players up the field and attacking them when they are stretched and lacking in numbers, did it happen, even once today, did it buggery we insisted on playing a flat back 5 which in effect caused us to have even less going forward when we had a break.
These tactics area all well and good for PL players who have skill, speed, guile and strength, we have very little of that in our side and it looks a piss poor imitation, there's a reason these players are plying their trade at the lowest level of pro football, to me the managers not as bright as he thinks if he keeps on insisting we play a system that will just not work for us, our players and more importantly us mugs who pay for it all.
To me the seasons gone, again, the experiment with our management team sounded good but we don't have the finances to bring in the right type of players to function in it and to push us into a play off position, we are just too brittle, our supposedly better ball players cannot function in the white hot heat of a fourth tier game!
What i'd like to see is some honest truths banded around in the dressing room, when we look at our playing resources and who we want to keep next season and offer contracts too it looks bleak, i'd let most go, start again and i'd also relieve the head coach if he cannot get a tune out of players who should be capable at this level but are playing a system that they are just not good enough for.
Thinking back to the days of Dave Penny and his attacking 442 with honest lower league players who knew what was required and did what it said on the tin, if we can't afford the right type of player then i want to see us play a simple 442 with big strong athletic players, they may be lacking in finesse and skill, but the honest endeavour and graft will give us something to watch that does not bore the pants of everyone in the ground.
Im really struggling to remember a game that i really enjoyed watching, win, lose or draw, the product now is just an awful regurgitation of what gets played in the upper leagues, it just does not transplant well to this bottom tier, i don't care what anyone says, i'd rather watch a Steve Evans type team than this gunge.
Utterly pissed off with it all, sick of going home thinking I've wasted another couple of hours of my life at this soulless and penny pinching club. The product since McCann pissed off has been truly, truly dire and getting worse, if such a thing exists.
We truly are in the brown stuff with no easy way out. more than anything the club needs a full reset, owners, players, manger the works. Roll on another wasted season, with this mentality we will struggle to maintain this position next season, you don't need to be mystic meg to see, it truly stinks.
And like a real sucker for punishment we've already paid for another season of thrills!!
Good post this and I think will probably reflect what many are thinking. We need to understand what league we are in. DS seems to be like alot of young coaches nowadays who have be taught to play out from the back, is this what coaches taking their badges today are being told. He's like a robot that refuses to change and just bangs on about the process. Well the process should result in scoring goals and not conceding them and we are crap at both at the moment playing the way we are. He need s to change the process to reflect the level we are at and not try and play like Man City with lge 2 players.
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3 at the back against a lone striker, week in week out, why?
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DS needs to either 're think the tactics and formation or go. We will not get out this division with him imo while playing that way. I'd wager teams like to play us atm.
Even the Sutton fans last week were singing 'can we play you every week'.
The Sutton fans hardly made a noise until they were 2 up and then it was little more than a whisper?
Doesn’t make it any less true, we are easy to play against. I would say there are quite a few clubs fans would say the same, Hartlepool being one of them.
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I don't know what it is with DS but he seems to be a manager who gets all the big calls wrong.
Today we played a team with two very experienced midfielders in the middle, when we should of been pressing them and keeping the tempo high what did we do, we played snail slow from the back, straight into their hands, it allowed them to push up in midfield, close us down at the back and prevented us from gaining any forward momentum. Worse still we needed pace and guile on the flanks, who do we have who can give a decent impression of that skill, yes that's it Moly, where was he, sat in the stand with us, instead we play a player who should of been in the middle and harrying their holding midfielders.
We could all see where the game was going from around the hour mark, but DS was very slow in implementing a change, allowing them to gain the ascendency that led to their scrappy goal.
In the meantime we still persist with the slow and painful for us playing out from the back, now im no football coach or tactician but even i know that playing this way is supposed to draw the opposition onto you to then allow a quick counter strike forward and getting your attacking players up the field and attacking them when they are stretched and lacking in numbers, did it happen, even once today, did it buggery we insisted on playing a flat back 5 which in effect caused us to have even less going forward when we had a break.
These tactics area all well and good for PL players who have skill, speed, guile and strength, we have very little of that in our side and it looks a piss poor imitation, there's a reason these players are plying their trade at the lowest level of pro football, to me the managers not as bright as he thinks if he keeps on insisting we play a system that will just not work for us, our players and more importantly us mugs who pay for it all.
To me the seasons gone, again, the experiment with our management team sounded good but we don't have the finances to bring in the right type of players to function in it and to push us into a play off position, we are just too brittle, our supposedly better ball players cannot function in the white hot heat of a fourth tier game!
What i'd like to see is some honest truths banded around in the dressing room, when we look at our playing resources and who we want to keep next season and offer contracts too it looks bleak, i'd let most go, start again and i'd also relieve the head coach if he cannot get a tune out of players who should be capable at this level but are playing a system that they are just not good enough for.
Thinking back to the days of Dave Penny and his attacking 442 with honest lower league players who knew what was required and did what it said on the tin, if we can't afford the right type of player then i want to see us play a simple 442 with big strong athletic players, they may be lacking in finesse and skill, but the honest endeavour and graft will give us something to watch that does not bore the pants of everyone in the ground.
Im really struggling to remember a game that i really enjoyed watching, win, lose or draw, the product now is just an awful regurgitation of what gets played in the upper leagues, it just does not transplant well to this bottom tier, i don't care what anyone says, i'd rather watch a Steve Evans type team than this gunge.
Utterly pissed off with it all, sick of going home thinking I've wasted another couple of hours of my life at this soulless and penny pinching club. The product since McCann pissed off has been truly, truly dire and getting worse, if such a thing exists.
We truly are in the brown stuff with no easy way out. more than anything the club needs a full reset, owners, players, manger the works. Roll on another wasted season, with this mentality we will struggle to maintain this position next season, you don't need to be mystic meg to see, it truly stinks.
And like a real sucker for punishment we've already paid for another season of thrills!!
Absolutely bang on post. Sums it up perfectly
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Bradford look quite ordinary, yet thoroughly deserved the win. We're just so bad.
We just played into their hands all game. They repeatedly snuffed out our 'playing out from the back' nonsense before it even got into their half. Our manager is so tactically inflexible that he doesn't even think to try something else. He just persists with the same old shit all game even when it doesn't work.
Even the goal came from a stupid corner given away by our goalkeeper trying to play like Ederson, even though he can't pass, chipping an idiotic pass into central midfield. It's just brain-dead football.
We're playing at home, at the lowest level we've played at for 20 years and we can't create a single chance. Not for the first time this season either. It's a joke.
The home crowd was understandably shit as well. The last two years has just totally drained the enthusiasm out of everyone. "Bring a friend" - at this rate plenty of folks won't even be bringing themselves next season never mind bringing anyone else.
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If people do bring a friend, they won’t have that friend for long. Who would do that to a real friend anyway?, it’s bad enough you’re going through it.
In my opinion you play to the strengths of what you have. In your own half you play it safe, get it into their half, then you can play your football and take chances. I would love to see flowing one touch football but you have to adapt to what you have.
It’s no shame to lose to a decent solid team like Bradford, where the shame is, is that we were at home and went down with barely a whimper!
Let’s have a back four, two wingers, two midfielders and two strikers and go for the win.
We aren’t winning games trying to protect the defence, so go the opposite and think the best form of defence is attack.
I don’t care what anybody says, if you consistently give George chances he will score goals. He has been wasted for most of the season. Molyneux was banging them in for Hartlepool last season. Hurst started off promisingly and even he’s gone backwards.
If we don’t have the midfielder or a defender so we can play this way, take a chance on a free agent and get him fit. What have we to lose?
We aren’t going to make the playoffs if we continue playing this way. The manager needs to use what he has to their strengths then look at playing his way when he has the players capable of doing it.
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Yeah bring a mate and and the end of that you turn to him and go “that’ll be £21 please” I’d feel like a criminal.
I’m not a board basher but if they don’t understand the entertainment is awful and that ultimately drives ticket sales then god help us. Can’t flog a dead horse.
On the manager it does feel like they all go to St George’s training camp get a few badges and think they can play like Man City. Then they get a job and Steve Evans runs rings round them because he’s in touch with the reality of football at this level.
Hope it works out for DS but by been this stubborn he’s wasted the chance to go up this season. Next season we need to be flying to justify the way we’ve cost ourselves any chance of going up this year.
Concern is I’m not sure the players exist in L2 to do what the manager wants. And if they do they’ll have lots of options
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To build a team that can play good football, you won’t get it with a budget that’s more like a whip around. In the summer the thing needs dismantling. Retention of players shouldn’t be that high. I would suggest many are playing for their futures in league football. I don’t see many of ours being lapped up by sides around the top of this league or higher.
Every signing has to be with a lot of thought gone into where they fit into how he wants to play. We can’t afford to carry as many failures as we have.
Having said all that don’t be surprised if we get a few more good results to get hopes up, then another disappointing result just stops short of breaking into the playoffs. Our best first eleven is good enough to be in the playoffs, the fringe players they just aren’t anywhere near good enough. We have a lot of in and outers, one good game, then totally flat the next. No consistency.
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We are simply not good enough to play the ball out from goal kicks.
Agreed however, the alternative is a big boot upfield & how many times do we win the ball then (if Mitchell manages to kick the ball in play & not straight into touch)?
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No need to win the 1st ball just contest it and have the midfield set up to compete for the second ball.
It’s basics you teach kids. We’re so spread out because we are trying to play out that if any mistake is made or we don’t win the 1st they have acres to play in, normally driving at our goal.
conceding chances from restarts is a sign of a poor side imo