Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Branton Rover on February 28, 2023, 07:44:38 pm

Title: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: Branton Rover on February 28, 2023, 07:44:38 pm
Now I’m a cricket fan, I love the game but there’s one thing that rubs me up the wrong way more than anything else in life is gender neutral term’s especially when it’s 11 men versus 11 men.

I’m 51 & can now be considered a grumpy old man, but to call a batsman a ‘batter’ is heresy. And now to compound my disbelief Oli Robinson was sent out to bat for England in the night watchman role to protect a proven batsman & the commentators had the temerity to call him a ‘Night watcher’ !!!! Wtf is happening to our sport.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: SydneyRover on February 28, 2023, 09:01:48 pm
I actually read a bit about the cricket yesterday and didn't bat an eyelid, I didn't think anything of it. Now you have brought the subject up BR it seems sensible as batswoman is a bit of a gobfull.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: normal rules on February 28, 2023, 09:20:41 pm
It’s a wonder they still get away with calling the respective games mens and women’s.
It’s probably only a matter of time before the WSL is called something else. Because it only takes one woman to start identifying as a man etc etc. or a cat perhaps?
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: Donnywolf on March 01, 2023, 06:36:59 am
They might have to become " Catters" then
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: DonnyOsmond on March 01, 2023, 07:18:47 am
Personally I don't see the issue of a neutral term for both, e.g. batter instead of batsman or batwoman, it's easier to just name the position the same thing in both games. Not really something to get worked up over.

I do not understand the mental gymnastics of the below though? The hell is this crap?

It’s a wonder they still get away with calling the respective games mens and women’s.
It’s probably only a matter of time before the WSL is called something else. Because it only takes one woman to start identifying as a man etc etc. or a cat perhaps?

Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: i_ateallthepies on March 01, 2023, 10:08:37 am
Branton I am totally with you on this, it's been grinding my gears for years.

It is infantile that some in society aren't grown up enough to accept gender specific terms without thinking it is in any way sexist.  'Man' is present in the word 'woman' and batsman simply defines the person's role in the game whether they be male, female... or cat.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: Donnywolf on March 01, 2023, 10:12:14 am
What about Third Man , has it gone to Third Person ?

Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: ravenrover on March 01, 2023, 11:17:24 am
Does Slip become undergarment and as for "Silly" point
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on March 01, 2023, 01:22:32 pm
Of all the things in the world to get upset about...
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: ncRover on March 01, 2023, 01:57:59 pm
I used to think it was silly but it makes sense now. It’s not saying that men can’t automatically be called men or women can’t automatically be called women.

If I was watching woman's sports and there terms like “batswoman” and “woman of the match” being used, I’d think it would sound a bit strange and condescending.

Having standardised terms across the sexes makes it easier for commentators and journalists who might not know what to say otherwise.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: ravenrover on March 01, 2023, 03:03:12 pm
Of all the things in the world to get upset about...
S'pose it's a bit like arguing about hypothetical points totals
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: Metalmicky on March 01, 2023, 03:45:58 pm
In female rugby (both codes) do they still call a hooker a hooker.......... or has that been banned also?
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: ravenrover on March 01, 2023, 04:33:02 pm
Probably just called by their name
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on March 01, 2023, 04:55:17 pm
I'm just wondering why folk weren't up in arms at us not using the term "bowlsmam" for the past 150 years.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on March 01, 2023, 05:42:48 pm
I used to think it was silly but it makes sense now. It’s not saying that men can’t automatically be called men or women can’t automatically be called women.

If I was watching woman's sports and there terms like “batswoman” and “woman of the match” being used, I’d think it would sound a bit strange and condescending.

Having standardised terms across the sexes makes it easier for commentators and journalists who might not know what to say otherwise.

That gets to the heart of the issue.

"Man" is a throwback to an era when only "men" counted.

Hence "manpower" "mankind" "man-years" "man of God" "manslaughter" "man-made" "chairman" etc.

"Man" implicitly became a cover all term for "human". But not because people thought "we'll just say 'man' and women will appreciate that there's no slight intended and it covers them as well." Because it never dawned on the people who coined those terms that "woman" mattered at all.

"Batsman" and "Man of the Match" are throwbacks to an era when it was just not on the agenda that they would refer to anything other than "men". All that's happening here is a clear out of some out of date terms. Nowt to get upset about.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: DonnyOsmond on March 01, 2023, 05:57:34 pm
In female rugby (both codes) do they still call a hooker a hooker.......... or has that been banned also?

The correct term is sex worker.

;)
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: turnbull for england on March 01, 2023, 06:32:59 pm
The renaming that I don't understand is what was a Spanish, Italian etc player is now a Spain Italy player, when did that occur?
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: normal rules on March 01, 2023, 08:20:36 pm
I used to think it was silly but it makes sense now. It’s not saying that men can’t automatically be called men or women can’t automatically be called women.

If I was watching woman's sports and there terms like “batswoman” and “woman of the match” being used, I’d think it would sound a bit strange and condescending.

Having standardised terms across the sexes makes it easier for commentators and journalists who might not know what to say otherwise.

That gets to the heart of the issue.

"Man" is a throwback to an era when only "men" counted.

Hence "manpower" "mankind" "man-years" "man of God" "manslaughter" "man-made" "chairman" etc.

"Man" implicitly became a cover all term for "human". But not because people thought "we'll just say 'man' and women will appreciate that there's no slight intended and it covers them as well." Because it never dawned on the people who coined those terms that "woman" mattered at all.

"Batsman" and "Man of the Match" are throwbacks to an era when it was just not on the agenda that they would refer to anything other than "men". All that's happening here is a clear out of some out of date terms. Nowt to get upset about.

Manslaughter. There’s an interesting word, and one no doubt soon to be confined to history. Cat slaughter anyone ?or feline- slaughter?
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: danumdon on March 01, 2023, 08:52:43 pm
Some of the attitudes demonstrated on here on this topic!

My advise to anyone who has anything about them, get yourself and your family as far away from this sinking cesspit as you can.

This is only the start, things are going to get so much worse.

Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on March 01, 2023, 09:04:26 pm
DD

Russia's the place! They don't put up with none of this nonsense.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: SydneyRover on March 01, 2023, 09:59:49 pm
Cricket should go back to its roots and play with a ball made from wool and bent bats.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: normal rules on March 01, 2023, 10:21:25 pm
And imagine footy played with an old lace up leather ball?
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: SydneyRover on March 01, 2023, 10:23:39 pm
Yep just shows how things change, have to change.
Title: Re: Gender neutral terms in sport
Post by: Metalmicky on March 02, 2023, 08:27:19 am
In female rugby (both codes) do they still call a hooker a hooker.......... or has that been banned also?

The correct term is sex worker.

;)

I'd imaging they were able to take up any number of on field positions then...