Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Campsall rover on April 21, 2023, 10:26:50 am
-
Record to date
Won 9, Drawn 4, Lost 17 inc cup game v Kings Lynn.
Scored 24, Conceded 42
Played 29 league games 31 points
That’s 30 games in total, 29 league games.
So virtually 2 thirds of the season.
That over 46 games would be equivalent to 49/50 points
May be enough to just stay up in this league with only 2 relegated.
But is that acceptable. Is that what we are aiming to achieve just hanging on to our EFL status.
Now I know this is not DS’s team other than the loan players he acquired in January.
Nelson, Brown, Lakin & B Miller.
But the players brought in during last summer were ones recruited by our current HoF Copps.
Maxwell, Long, Hirst, Molyneux, Degruchy, Tomlin, G Miller and Andrews.
Don’t remember many people saying these were poor signings last August.
We also had a squad containing,
Mitchell, Jones, Knoyle, Seaman, Younger, Williams, Faulkner, Anderson, Olowu, Rowe, Clayton, Biggins, Close, Taylor & Agard.
Now I am not saying that squad was top 3 although in August i did say that mistakenly.
The missing ingredient is physicality that’s obvious. We’re short of a 3 players who could potentially have won the league 2 title with an experienced manager at the helm imo.
So very long winded, my apologies again, what I am saying is getting
31 points from 29 games, which over 46 games, a full season 49/50 points acceptable with the squad of players we have.
Hands up those that think it is acceptable and DS should be allowed to stay in this job next season based on that record.
Also the quality of the football and entertainment that we have seen has to be a factor to take into consideration.
Now if I am in a minority I will hold my hands up and say I am wrong.
I know though I am not and that record above is abysmal in this league.
This is a desperately ave to poor league and we would have finished 20/21 over a full season on DS’s record over 29 games.
That to me is abject failure.
Any other club he would be gone. :facepalm:
-
100% agree. But its not just the results, it is also the negative way he sets up the side with no variation, no attacking intent and inability to read a game and make changes. He is the worse of all worlds.
-
Its beggars belief isn’t it?
I think the relationship between copps and him has alot to answer for.
The same concerns I had about copps being appointed as HOF are ringing true for similar concerns as to how on earth Schofield got the managers job.
Jobs for the boys. People within the footballing institution looking after themselves. Neither appointment imo have benefitted DRFC.
-
There is hardly ever anything during games to get you on the edge of your seat.
Boring to watch football.
A point per game over the season would leave us hanging over the precipice this time next year.
-
100% agree. But its not just the results, it is also the negative way he sets up the side with no variation, no attacking intent and inability to read a game and make changes. He is the worse of all worlds.
I didn’t mention that FNB but that’s why he has that abysmal record.
He is tactically out of his depth. He wants to play this formation. Doesn’t change it even though he has won only 9 games out of 30
Now that’s insanity isn’t it?
-
There has been alot of talk of sod’s tenure at rovers.
Now unless I’m mistaken, JR and SOD were not mates. Not connected in any way shape or form until that day when Bournemouth mullered rovers 5-0 at their place with a style of play that caught Ryan’s eye. Including a goal scored by a certain James hayter. After that the rest is history. Ryan saw a style of play and a manger that he wanted at rovers. And in time, he got his man.
Fast forward to this season. Now no one can say that this was the case with Schofield.
Copps hasn’t been over to Huddersfield to see his wizardry of management in process has he? Because it was none existent. So how on earth did he get the job.
-
There must be something in what seemed to be our position in the January window though in terms of shipping people out and not over committing resource. Now, the form since the January window has probably thrown a spanner in the works but the feeling still must that whatever agreement they made r.e. waiting till summer is playing a bit part here. Get through the difficult period until the summer.
But that is being made increasingly more difficult week on week by performances and the atmosphere around the club.
I'm still in two minds. Some such as Gaz have consistently pointed out that it feels like there still is no strategy despite Copps and Schofield talking about processes relentlessly. I think there probs is something in that. Interviews with some buzzwords but little to show for it.
But then it's almost like is it too soon once again to make a definitive judgement until they (whoever's job it is to build the squad - copps and the head coach?) have done that?
I honestly think this team is lightweight gash. Not sure anyone would do much with it over a season so I don't really have massively strong feelings about Schofield so far. Despite this run being abysmal.
-
The biggest lost to this season for creativity was when Tomlin retired we never replaced his creativity in the side.
As for Schofield and Copps I have little faith that with any extra funds provided they can add quality to the contracted players to achieve promotion next season.
The way DS sets up his team I do not believe we will compete in league 2.
If in blind faith the Chairman and Copps believe he can turn us round next season that’s their choice but will they then accept the consequences if he doesn’t.
If he stays and we are competitive in the top six or top three all season then I will say I was wrong.
This is a big summer for the club get it wrong then we could have a worst season than this and be relegated. We all hope that we have bottomed out and the recovery on the pitch starts from August 2023.
-
What does need saying, Camps, and, to be fair, it’s with a sprinkling of hindsight, it has become crystal clear that our ‘squad’ was devoid of any real quality. Particularly, when you consider the rapid decline in performances after several players were out with long term injuries (again).
I agree about the physical attributes but there is much more than that. For several ‘windows’ now, we seem to have signed either ‘ones for the future’ or players way past their sell by. Also, the standard of loans we’ve brought in (to supposedly add icing to the cake) have been way below what we’ve seen previously (Kane, Wilks, Ramsey, Richards, Sheaf, Dieng to name a few).
-
I don’t know if anyone listened to his latest radio Sheffield interview but it is absolutely mind blowing. It gave me anger, laughter and despair all rolled into one!! He cannot possibly believe some of the stuff he says.
Few things in particular, firstly that everyone at the club is positive and together and that the club is going in the right direction. Secondly his constant use of the phrase of moments in games. Is this what his process is? Boring everyone in the ground to death and when they’re all asleep try to sneak a goal in?
And finally him talking about next season. This is where my heart well and truly sank. Grit your teeth boys. He’s going nowhere!
-
The other thing that is glaringly obvious is the divide being created between factions of fans.
Furthermore, I have always thought that there has been quite a strong bond between the club and the fan base but as this season has gone on I feel that is being diluted.
So many people are deciding not to renew season tickets and are staying away from games at present.
The club have to take notice of this.
-
I don’t know if anyone listened to his latest radio Sheffield interview but it is absolutely mind blowing. It gave me anger, laughter and despair all rolled into one!! He cannot possibly believe some of the stuff he says.
Few things in particular, firstly that everyone at the club is positive and together and that the club is going in the right direction. Secondly his constant use of the phrase of moments in games. Is this what his process is? Boring everyone in the ground to death and when they’re all asleep try to sneak a goal in?
And finally him talking about next season. This is where my heart well and truly sank. Grit your teeth boys. He’s going nowhere!
The interviews are very strange. It's almost like the journalists doing the interviews are under instruction from the club.
-
I don’t know if anyone listened to his latest radio Sheffield interview but it is absolutely mind blowing. It gave me anger, laughter and despair all rolled into one!! He cannot possibly believe some of the stuff he says.
Few things in particular, firstly that everyone at the club is positive and together and that the club is going in the right direction. Secondly his constant use of the phrase of moments in games. Is this what his process is? Boring everyone in the ground to death and when they’re all asleep try to sneak a goal in?
And finally him talking about next season. This is where my heart well and truly sank. Grit your teeth boys. He’s going nowhere!
The interviews are very strange. It's almost like the journalists doing the interviews are under instruction from the club.
Agreed, there are a lot of questions posters on here would like to be put to him, in a proper manner of course. I would like him to be asked why he thinks it's acceptable after 30 games we hardly create any chances or shots on target during games. I mean that's what football fans go to see don't they. Then when he waffles about 'moments' & winning 'football games', ask him again to answer the question.
-
I don’t know about football. Maybe he would be better off in politics. He is very good at “whatabouterism “
-
The other thing that is glaringly obvious is the divide being created between factions of fans.
Furthermore, I have always thought that there has been quite a strong bond between the club and the fan base but as this season has gone on I feel that is being diluted.
So many people are deciding not to renew season tickets and are staying away from games at present.
The club have to take notice of this.
One person responsible hound. Blunt the Chairman. Blunt by name Blunt by nature.
Most Rovers fans wouldn’t even know him if they bumped into him in the street.
He is the problem hound. He is the organ grinder. He makes all the big decisions.
Or in this case doesn’t make them.
If it is Copps saying we keep DS then Blunt should take action and get them both out.
It genuinely hurts having to say that about a club legend but the Club comes 1st not any individual.
-
No one person, or perhaps in this case two, or even three, are bigger than the club.
The club would do well to remember this.
Custodians of the legacy of drfc. And they ain’t doing a very good job are they currently. But it’s ok as they are all mates.
Blunt wanted copps as HOF.
Copps wanted DS as manager.
All very chummy chummy.
-
A lot of people have been talking about Sod
Not one person has mentioned Richard O’Kelly.
He had a massive bearing on the success we had. Now he was a proper coach.
Who has Schofield got as no 2 Gribble now nothing personal but what 1st team coaching experience does he have on his CV?
It’s like the blind leading the blind. And Blunt isn’t even looking.
-
Ah em! I mentioned him in a reply to BST on the subject of comparing SOD and DS.
Just saying ;)
-
Ah em! I mentioned him in a reply to BST on the subject of comparing SOD and DS.
Just saying ;)
Sorry Alan missed that. :thumbsup:
RoK was a proper coach and I mean a proper coach.
He didn’t end up as 1st team coach at Aston Villa by accident.
-
I’ve got nothing against the bloke but it just hasn’t worked. I don’t how copps or the board can’t see that. We honestly might as well have kept GMS, and that was awful. I think he has to be relived of his duties at the end of season. I don’t think him staying will help any of the negativity around the club or put bums back on seats
-
ROK now wat Walsall again.
-
ROK now wat Walsall again.
And we go there last game .
Home win all day long.
-
I think he’ll do ok for us next season.
-
I think he’ll do ok for us next season.
Who will? DS or RoK? ;)
-
These interviews not just from DS are absolutely pointless. (A bit like rovers on a Saturday) both pre match and post match, it’s the same old turgid cliched nonsense every week, they just don’t say anything of substance. Just insulting to the fans.
If he said the club goings in the right direction ( I don’t listen to them anymore) just how the hell can he back that statement up? Because we certainly are not, especially on the pitch where it matters.
-
Record to date
Won 9, Drawn 4, Lost 17 inc cup game v Kings Lynn.
Scored 24, Conceded 42
Played 29 league games 31 points
That’s 30 games in total, 29 league games.
So virtually 2 thirds of the season.
That over 46 games would be equivalent to 49/50 points
May be enough to just stay up in this league with only 2 relegated.
But is that acceptable. Is that what we are aiming to achieve just hanging on to our EFL status.
Now I know this is not DS’s team other than the loan players he acquired in January.
Nelson, Brown, Lakin & B Miller.
But the players brought in during last summer were ones recruited by our current HoF Copps.
Maxwell, Long, Hirst, Molyneux, Degruchy, Tomlin, G Miller and Andrews.
Don’t remember many people saying these were poor signings last August.
We also had a squad containing,
Mitchell, Jones, Knoyle, Seaman, Younger, Williams, Faulkner, Anderson, Olowu, Rowe, Clayton, Biggins, Close, Taylor & Agard.
Now I am not saying that squad was top 3 although in August i did say that mistakenly.
The missing ingredient is physicality that’s obvious. We’re short of a 3 players who could potentially have won the league 2 title with an experienced manager at the helm imo.
So very long winded, my apologies again, what I am saying is getting
31 points from 29 games, which over 46 games, a full season 49/50 points acceptable with the squad of players we have.
Hands up those that think it is acceptable and DS should be allowed to stay in this job next season based on that record.
Also the quality of the football and entertainment that we have seen has to be a factor to take into consideration.
Now if I am in a minority I will hold my hands up and say I am wrong.
I know though I am not and that record above is abysmal in this league.
This is a desperately ave to poor league and we would have finished 20/21 over a full season on DS’s record over 29 games.
That to me is abject failure.
Any other club he would be gone. :facepalm:
I don’t want to come across as abusive, but DS wouldn’t get the best out of the likes of Haaland, Ronaldo and Messi, so it’s regardless of what squad he inherited we were in a stronger position with them players before he came in and messed it all up. GOT TO GO won’t step a foot near a game with him in charge,
-
BTW 24 goals in 29 games, and a calamity defence.
Utterly shameful.
-
Those of a nervous disposition, don’t read the latest Free Press article. Wish I hadn’t.
-
We are a joke aren't we.
It's got to the point of give up now.
I've never even to the po8ntbod despair as much as now, you can see it all coming a mile off.
Yes I was in the Richardson era.
I'm to the point of stop caring. Frustration and anger are gone.
There are more to life. So disappointing.
I'll come back in the non league again as before. Currently it is a complete joke.
Drive he frustrations of the fans to a hilt and wonder why anger comes out.
-
On the other hand, if he pulls it off a lot of people will look daft.
I don't see it, I really don't
However, the focus on every word people say is a bit tiresome. It is perfectly possible to be excited by the future and also pissed off about what the state of play is now.
I would caution though the clubs making a massive risk in their comments. They're trying to build expectation and I fear they're setting the summer window up to be a big fail as they've got to really back up their words now.
-
It's alright having a summer window, but you need the right guy to use it and also set the team up right, we don't have that.
-
A lot of people have been talking about Sod
Not one person has mentioned Richard O’Kelly.
He had a massive bearing on the success we had. Now he was a proper coach.
Who has Schofield got as no 2 Gribble now nothing personal but what 1st team coaching experience does he have on his CV?
It’s like the blind leading the blind. And Blunt isn’t even looking.
I have at least twice!
-
A lot of people have been talking about Sod
Not one person has mentioned Richard O’Kelly.
He had a massive bearing on the success we had. Now he was a proper coach.
Who has Schofield got as no 2 Gribble now nothing personal but what 1st team coaching experience does he have on his CV?
It’s like the blind leading the blind. And Blunt isn’t even looking.
I have at least twice!
:thumbsup:
-
On the other hand, if he pulls it off a lot of people will look daft.
I don't see it, I really don't
However, the focus on every word people say is a bit tiresome. It is perfectly possible to be excited by the future and also pissed off about what the state of play is now.
I would caution though the clubs making a massive risk in their comments. They're trying to build expectation and I fear they're setting the summer window up to be a big fail as they've got to really back up their words now.
Agree hopefully 90%+ end up looking daft (although it’s justified right now no matter how well he eventually does).
They’ve put a lot of pressure on this summer window and the 1st few games next season now. So we will find out if they’ve got what it takes. Pressure makes diamonds after all. The club must know or see something that isn’t apparent to almost anyone else.
No matter how much they hope he’ll be given a clean slate as soon as the season ends it just doesn’t work like that. The guys in negative credit in a big way.
-
It will be very telling to see how quickly copps and ds move to bring in the desperately needed fresh talent.
Surely the groundwork is already being done. ?
Surely they have players identified who have been spoken to. ?
Surely as soon as season ends the dead wood is out and the new wood is in?
All these questions and more are about to be answered. We are just Two weeks from season end.
We are all waiting with baited breath.
Over to you copps and ds.
No pressure.
And I’ve just read his recent comments in the dfp. If he thinks fans will judge him on “next season” he can think again. He will be judged in close season around who goes and who comes in, and then I’d say he has around 10 games. Not a season, just 10 games. He has already been judged of course with his performances to date and is in negative equity with supporters confidence and happiness. Copps too.
Something very special has to happen. In a relatively short period of time.
-
Perhaps the answer would be to get Radio Sheffield to do a programme all about our disenchantment. In normal circumstances you would want elected reps to present the case, but efforts to get the VSC/Silent Majority to tell us what is actually happening are ignored. The Shadow Board is seemingly unwilling to let us know what they know either.
When the club adopts a strategy which ducks the key issue the questions to ask are obvious and I find it difficult to believe that the SB and SM don'f press them for a specific statement on the obvious underlying issues. But they tell us nothing informative. It is a strange type of representation.
-
Those of a nervous disposition, don’t read the latest Free Press article. Wish I hadn’t.
with regard to my post earlier ive had time to digest and reflect on his words and I can I’m now absolutely f*cking raging. He said judge me next season! He’s been here 6 f*cking months!! I judge people when the going gets tough and he’s shown nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Any good coach should be able to get something out of any side. Even if it means shots on goal. They can’t all say nah I can’t do it cos I haven’t got my own players. It’s f*cking ridiculous.
He’s basically said f*ck it, this season doesn’t count. There was loads of time to salvage this season.
When he eventually gets sacked in October does the next manager basically get a free ride and the season written off with zero expectations. It’s unbelievable.
I’ve never said a bad word about the board but now I’m wavering big time!!
-
Just when you think his pr can’t get any worse.
“Judge me on next season. “
This season has been poor but he has essentially tried to write the whole lot off. He is suggesting he should not be judged on it. On two thirds of a season. He wants a clean slate. Jesus wept.
I’ll liken him to a student who has just flunked all his a levels, and now decides he is going to do a masters next year.
In addition, what sort of message does this give to the players he has with him still? He is basically saying the last three games are meaningless. He won’t be judged on them, or at least he doesn’t think he should be.
-
Why sack McSheffery if this season was written off the moment DS came in. Might as well give GM the full season if that’s the attitude it would make zero difference.
If we’d have sacked DS a month ago and a new manager came in and said this it’d be fair enough with only a few games. He’s most of a season and takes zero responsibility for it.
Like I’ve said pressure is on big time to get it right quickly next season. If I hear an excuse come out of Copps or DS’s mouth next season I’ll be livid. I bet they will be one though we’re that type of organisation at the moment.
-
Interesting thought.
Who was the last permanent (not caretaker) manager that we sacked without giving them at least a close season in charge?
Anyone?
-
Who was the last manager to be this bad for us
-
Interesting thought.
Who was the last permanent (not caretaker) manager that we sacked without giving them at least a close season in charge?
Anyone?
GM? Actually he wasnt sacked.
-
Interesting thought.
Who was the last permanent (not caretaker) manager that we sacked without giving them at least a close season in charge?
Anyone?
to be honest I personally don’t know or don’t give a shite. Who was the last manager with such a deplorable record?
The excuse culture and blame culture doesn’t work with me. Society is riddled with it. Just get your head down work with what you’ve got. Earn the right for better things! This joker has earned nothing. Wouldn’t give him the steam off my…..
-
I can’t remember if Ian Atkins was sacked or just left because of Richardson?
-
I wonder what Dave Cusack does with his weekends?
-
LOOK history of who was in charge and when is a massive thing ..
BUT
This at the moment for many months its total boll - twaddle (i cleaned up what i really think of the so called football being played NOW)
I just dont get why 90+ % can see its shagging useless (sorry i nearly lost it again)
WHY CANT
a) Danny Schofield
b) Copps
c) The Chairman
d) The Owner
e) the roughly 5% others
BEGGARS FRIGGIN BELIEF
-
LOOK history of who was in charge and when is a massive thing ..
BUT
This at the moment for many months its total boll - twaddle (i cleaned up what i really think of the so called football being played NOW)
I just dont get why 90+ % can see its shagging useless (sorry i nearly lost it again)
WHY CANT
a) Danny Schofield
b) Copps
c) The Chairman
d) The Owner
e) the roughly 5% others
BEGGARS FRIGGIN BELIEF
Simple answer
A. Because he gets paid and was hired by
B. Because he gets paid and was hired by
C. Because he steals a wage and works with
D. Who is not mithered by football and lets A, Band C get on with it.
E. I have absolutely no idea.
-
That Free Press article has just convinced me, I'm done completely.
No point bothering anymore. I was 4 when I started to support this club and I'm 50 next year.
The club is a complete joke, it is completely full of arrogance and void of any sense at all.
-
I can’t remember if Ian Atkins was sacked or just left because of Richardson?
I think he resigned, but it wasn't totally clear at the time.
-
I wrote this on17th April:
Viking Chat / Re: If Danny is in charge next season...
« on: April 17, 2023, 05:46:04 pm »
I have no doubt though that some posters would then say we have to give him ten games to put his theories into practice and for the new players to gel.
If it is still not right after ten games it will be that we should give him until Christmas.
We have seen it before and it is likely to happen again.
I have since seen three or four posters write about it.
-
I wrote this on17th April:
Viking Chat / Re: If Danny is in charge next season...
« on: April 17, 2023, 05:46:04 pm »
I have no doubt though that some posters would then say we have to give him ten games to put his theories into practice and for the new players to gel.
If it is still not right after ten games it will be that we should give him until Christmas.
We have seen it before and it is likely to happen again.
I have since seen three or four posters write about it.
Giving him 10 games into next season was a generalisation about next season, which, despite my own wishes, we are stuck with.
I’d pay for his taxi right now. Tonight.
-
Perhaps the answer would be to get Radio Sheffield to do a programme all about our disenchantment. In normal circumstances you would want elected reps to present the case, but efforts to get the VSC/Silent Majority to tell us what is actually happening are ignored. The Shadow Board is seemingly unwilling to let us know what they know either.
When the club adopts a strategy which ducks the key issue the questions to ask are obvious and I find it difficult to believe that the SB and SM don'f press them for a specific statement on the obvious underlying issues. But they tell us nothing informative. It is a strange type of representation.
What exactly is it that you want me to say that I haven’t already done so?
I’m not here at everybody’s beck and call 24 hours a day!
-
I wrote this on17th April:
Viking Chat / Re: If Danny is in charge next season...
« on: April 17, 2023, 05:46:04 pm »
I have no doubt though that some posters would then say we have to give him ten games to put his theories into practice and for the new players to gel.
If it is still not right after ten games it will be that we should give him until Christmas.
We have seen it before and it is likely to happen again.
I have since seen three or four posters write about it.
Giving him 10 games into next season was a generalisation about next season, which, despite my own wishes, we are stuck with.
I’d pay for his taxi right now. Tonight.
I’m not having a dig at you NR, just emphasising that I knew that statement would rear its head again.
It happens all too often these days.
-
A couple of preseason injuries and we’ll have to wait till after Jan
-
Who was the last manager to be this bad for us
Darren Ferguson in his first season with us.
The two we had last season.
That's three in the last 7 years for a kick off.
-
I am clinging on in hope that he defends these players so that he can move them on in the summer. I am so tired of blasting the guy that i am going to try to support him. The players are awful and have not helped him at all. Andersons contract really gets my goat.... appalling decision by everybody. No room for error next season amd feel we will get it right.
-
Perhaps the answer would be to get Radio Sheffield to do a programme all about our disenchantment. In normal circumstances you would want elected reps to present the case, but efforts to get the VSC/Silent Majority to tell us what is actually happening are ignored. The Shadow Board is seemingly unwilling to let us know what they know either.
When the club adopts a strategy which ducks the key issue the questions to ask are obvious and I find it difficult to believe that the SB and SM don'f press them for a specific statement on the obvious underlying issues. But they tell us nothing informative. It is a strange type of representation.
What exactly is it that you want me to say that I haven’t already done so?
I’m not here at everybody’s beck and call 24 hours a day!
I do not doubt that you spend a lot of you own time in the service of the supporters and despite my questions seeming to have been ignored, I think I have remained polite and respectful. If I have missed your replies then I apologise.
However, I am not aware of a reply to the principal point I made in my post of 20/04/23 (Club Statement) when you confined your response to a definition of “Whatabouterism”
The same applies to my post on “Let’s talk about the Newport Co game” on 19/04/23 10:15pm.
I asked questions on 2/04/23 at 12:49pm and on 3/04/23 1:56pm “Supporters Board where are you?” And another on the same thread at 6:27pm.
There was also the “Talk about the Crewe A game” on 30/03/23 at 11:46pm
There was also “Sack Schofield now - yes or no” on 29/03/23 at 1:22pm and at 6:02pm and at 9:08pm.
Thank you
-
ROK now wat Walsall again.
That's a promising move by Walsall.
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
Thought we’d agreed managerial experience wasn’t important?
We were at different levels but that’s not really
Important, I don’t think anyone on here was saying it’s ok because we’re not in league 2.
Fact is both had seasons which were far below the expectation, and would’ve probably been sacked by most other clubs.
We stuck with them and they succeeded, hopefully the same will happen again
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
Thought we’d agreed managerial experience wasn’t important?
We were at different levels but that’s not really
Important, I don’t think anyone on here was saying it’s ok because we’re not in league 2.
Fact is both had seasons which were far below the expectation, and would’ve probably been sacked by most other clubs.
We stuck with them and they succeeded, hopefully the same will happen again
When did we agree that Managerial experience wasn’t important?
Where on earth have you conjured that one up from.
I certainly have never said that. Quite the opposite in fact.
-
Fergie and Saunders didn’t take a team from chasing playoffs to been lucky to stay up. In L2. Any manager for us in the Championship will get a second chance everyone understands that’s a up hill battle. Fergie has us playing really well for periods before we crashed. So there was something to cling to in hope he’d turn it around.
When I say who was the last manager to be this bad I’m talking not just wins and losses it’s the feeling and unpopularity. I don’t remember this level of unanimity. It’s not good and imo it isn’t right for the club to let it fester
-
dickos you could have got that 2016/17 team promoted out of League 2
That squad should never have been relegated in the 1st place.
Yes they stuck with Fergie based on his record.
Saunders had the experiment didn’t he. Different scenario altogether.
What has DS got or done that justifies keeping him?
Please tell me one thing you like about this last 6 months. Just one?
-
I’d be amazed if DS sign’s characters like that team had. Rob Jones wouldn’t be considered because he’s not up to playing out the back.
-
I’d be amazed if DS sign’s characters like that team had. Rob Jones wouldn’t be considered because he’s not up to playing out the back.
No and he would tell DS a few home truths also. He wouldn’t stand for this garbage on the pitch.
-
Perhaps the answer would be to get Radio Sheffield to do a programme all about our disenchantment. In normal circumstances you would want elected reps to present the case, but efforts to get the VSC/Silent Majority to tell us what is actually happening are ignored. The Shadow Board is seemingly unwilling to let us know what they know either.
When the club adopts a strategy which ducks the key issue the questions to ask are obvious and I find it difficult to believe that the SB and SM don'f press them for a specific statement on the obvious underlying issues. But they tell us nothing informative. It is a strange type of representation.
What exactly is it that you want me to say that I haven’t already done so?
I’m not here at everybody’s beck and call 24 hours a day!
I do not doubt that you spend a lot of you own time in the service of the supporters and despite my questions seeming to have been ignored, I think I have remained polite and respectful. If I have missed your replies then I apologise.
However, I am not aware of a reply to the principal point I made in my post of 20/04/23 (Club Statement) when you confined your response to a definition of “Whatabouterism”
The same applies to my post on “Let’s talk about the Newport Co game” on 19/04/23 10:15pm.
I asked questions on 2/04/23 at 12:49pm and on 3/04/23 1:56pm “Supporters Board where are you?” And another on the same thread at 6:27pm.
There was also the “Talk about the Crewe A game” on 30/03/23 at 11:46pm
There was also “Sack Schofield now - yes or no” on 29/03/23 at 1:22pm and at 6:02pm and at 9:08pm.
Thank you
Here's a thought, why not write to GB or Copps and ask all the questions you want answering. See if they get back to you with the answers you want
-
This team has under achieved but has been unbalanced since day one.
We could never really challenge seriously without having steel in midfield in my opinion. That has led to lack of support for front players and extra pressure on the defence. We have been too powder puff and easily bullied in most games.
Our off the ball movement has been poor for the last two seasons as well.
-
Perhaps the answer would be to get Radio Sheffield to do a programme all about our disenchantment. In normal circumstances you would want elected reps to present the case, but efforts to get the VSC/Silent Majority to tell us what is actually happening are ignored. The Shadow Board is seemingly unwilling to let us know what they know either.
When the club adopts a strategy which ducks the key issue the questions to ask are obvious and I find it difficult to believe that the SB and SM don'f press them for a specific statement on the obvious underlying issues. But they tell us nothing informative. It is a strange type of representation.
What exactly is it that you want me to say that I haven’t already done so?
I’m not here at everybody’s beck and call 24 hours a day!
I do not doubt that you spend a lot of you own time in the service of the supporters and despite my questions seeming to have been ignored, I think I have remained polite and respectful. If I have missed your replies then I apologise.
However, I am not aware of a reply to the principal point I made in my post of 20/04/23 (Club Statement) when you confined your response to a definition of “Whatabouterism”
The same applies to my post on “Let’s talk about the Newport Co game” on 19/04/23 10:15pm.
I asked questions on 2/04/23 at 12:49pm and on 3/04/23 1:56pm “Supporters Board where are you?” And another on the same thread at 6:27pm.
There was also the “Talk about the Crewe A game” on 30/03/23 at 11:46pm
There was also “Sack Schofield now - yes or no” on 29/03/23 at 1:22pm and at 6:02pm and at 9:08pm.
Thank you
Here's a thought, why not write to GB or Copps and ask all the questions you want answering. See if they get back to you with the answers you want
I have always found those people at the club with whom I have had dealings, like Steve Uttley and Shaun Lockwood, really helpful and honest, but I am only one individual and it is important on matters of this importance for the approach to be on behalf and representative of the body of supporters. We have established communication channels and in that dialogue those who are appointed/elected to represent the fans carry the weight of the majority of those on whose behalf they speak.
So I am content to wait.
-
It will be very telling to see how quickly copps and ds move to bring in the desperately needed fresh talent.
Surely the groundwork is already being done. ?
Surely they have players identified who have been spoken to. ?
Surely as soon as season ends the dead wood is out and the new wood is in?
All these questions and more are about to be answered. We are just Two weeks from season end.
We are all waiting with baited breath.
Over to you copps and ds.
No pressure.
And I’ve just read his recent comments in the dfp. If he thinks fans will judge him on “next season” he can think again. He will be judged in close season around who goes and who comes in, and then I’d say he has around 10 games. Not a season, just 10 games. He has already been judged of course with his performances to date and is in negative equity with supporters confidence and happiness. Copps too.
Something very special has to happen. In a relatively short period of time.
So he wants us to wait until next season to judge him but he's going to judge all of the players based on this season? Sounds about right.
-
Fergie and Saunders didn’t take a team from chasing playoffs to been lucky to stay up. In L2. Any manager for us in the Championship will get a second chance everyone understands that’s a up hill battle. Fergie has us playing really well for periods before we crashed. So there was something to cling to in hope he’d turn it around.
When I say who was the last manager to be this bad I’m talking not just wins and losses it’s the feeling and unpopularity. I don’t remember this level of unanimity. It’s not good and imo it isn’t right for the club to let it fester
Ferguson in 2015/16 wasn't too dissimilar to Schofield. In his first 16 league games after being appointed he managed a respectable 25 points. Over the next 19 league games he managed 10 (ten) points and got us relegated. This was after having the January window and somehow making matters worse, far, far worse.
-
Fergie and Saunders didn’t take a team from chasing playoffs to been lucky to stay up. In L2. Any manager for us in the Championship will get a second chance everyone understands that’s a up hill battle. Fergie has us playing really well for periods before we crashed. So there was something to cling to in hope he’d turn it around.
When I say who was the last manager to be this bad I’m talking not just wins and losses it’s the feeling and unpopularity. I don’t remember this level of unanimity. It’s not good and imo it isn’t right for the club to let it fester
Ferguson in 2005/6 wasn't too dissimilar to Schofield. In his first 16 league games after being appointed he managed a respectable 25 points. Over the next 19 league games he managed 10 (ten) points and got us relegated. This was after having the January window and somehow making matters worse, far, far worse.
And having a core of Butler, Rowe, Alcock, Coppinger and Williams generally available through that appalling run.
-
Fergie must have had at least 2 promotions under his belt at that point with Peterborough though. So you’d always be hopefully he’d turn it around, which he did.
How can anyone have an ounce of confidence Schofield will turn this around? We’re not dealing with an experienced manager who’s done it before but is on a bad run. DS has been garbage with both jobs he’s had!
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
Thought we’d agreed managerial experience wasn’t important?
We were at different levels but that’s not really
Important, I don’t think anyone on here was saying it’s ok because we’re not in league 2.
Fact is both had seasons which were far below the expectation, and would’ve probably been sacked by most other clubs.
We stuck with them and they succeeded, hopefully the same will happen again
When did we agree that Managerial experience wasn’t important?
Where on earth have you conjured that one up from.
I certainly have never said that. Quite the opposite in fact.
When we discussed the many managers that have succeeded with no previous experience, when we discussed the fact that every single manager out there had to have a job at one stage with no experience.
The experience argument is flawed and makes no sense to me
-
Fergie and Saunders didn’t take a team from chasing playoffs to been lucky to stay up. In L2. Any manager for us in the Championship will get a second chance everyone understands that’s a up hill battle. Fergie has us playing really well for periods before we crashed. So there was something to cling to in hope he’d turn it around.
When I say who was the last manager to be this bad I’m talking not just wins and losses it’s the feeling and unpopularity. I don’t remember this level of unanimity. It’s not good and imo it isn’t right for the club to let it fester
Under fergie we went one stage further, we were only a few points off the playoffs at one stage and then after a disastrous run we got relegated.
Many on here wanted him sacked and were just as vocal as they are now about it, but a few said he needed time to build his own squad, which turned out to be the correct decision
-
dickos you could have got that 2016/17 team promoted out of League 2
That squad should never have been relegated in the 1st place.
Yes they stuck with Fergie based on his record.
Saunders had the experiment didn’t he. Different scenario altogether.
What has DS got or done that justifies keeping him?
Please tell me one thing you like about this last 6 months. Just one?
Dear me,
It wasn’t the squad he inherited that got us promoted it was the players he signed in the summer and a pre season getting his ideas across, if you can’t see that or acknowledge that then I don’t know what to say.
I know you were one of the most vocal about sacking him at the time as you are now with schofield but it’s ok to admit you were wrong
-
I’d be amazed if DS sign’s characters like that team had. Rob Jones wouldn’t be considered because he’s not up to playing out the back.
Rob jones wasn’t involved in that promotion
-
Saw this on the twitter feed of the @therealefl
We should have kept McSheffrey!
COYR
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
Thought we’d agreed managerial experience wasn’t important?
We were at different levels but that’s not really
Important, I don’t think anyone on here was saying it’s ok because we’re not in league 2.
Fact is both had seasons which were far below the expectation, and would’ve probably been sacked by most other clubs.
We stuck with them and they succeeded, hopefully the same will happen again
When did we agree that Managerial experience wasn’t important?
Where on earth have you conjured that one up from.
I certainly have never said that. Quite the opposite in fact.
When we discussed the many managers that have succeeded with no previous experience, when we discussed the fact that every single manager out there had to have a job at one stage with no experience.
The experience argument is flawed and makes no sense to me
Quite right. The big successful clubs always appoint untested managers with no experience in management or legacy of success, and then tolerate months of abject failure, poor performance, terrible results, and significant fan unrest.
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
Thought we’d agreed managerial experience wasn’t important?
We were at different levels but that’s not really
Important, I don’t think anyone on here was saying it’s ok because we’re not in league 2.
Fact is both had seasons which were far below the expectation, and would’ve probably been sacked by most other clubs.
We stuck with them and they succeeded, hopefully the same will happen again
When did we agree that Managerial experience wasn’t important?
Where on earth have you conjured that one up from.
I certainly have never said that. Quite the opposite in fact.
When we discussed the many managers that have succeeded with no previous experience, when we discussed the fact that every single manager out there had to have a job at one stage with no experience.
The experience argument is flawed and makes no sense to me
Quite right. The big successful clubs always appoint untested managers with no experience in management or legacy of success, and then tolerate months of abject failure, poor performance, terrible results, and significant fan unrest.
I’m no fan of Schofield but to be fair you’ve just described Arsenal and Arteta pretty perfectly and he’s managed to turn that around.
-
I’m going to try and get behind him.
Managers do have tough starts and turn things around.
Hopefully he is just getting his mistakes out the way early in his career and learns from them.
That’s the thing with young coaches, that’s not his fault it was our decision to go down that route.
Add to that he clearly wasn’t backed in January and has (whether people want to accept it or not) had a bad injury list to contend with.
He’s obviously here to stay for now so for my own good more than anything I will see what happens.
One thing for sure. If he does come through this period and turn it round, this period will have absolutely made him stronger.
Despite the grief he’s been getting I don’t feel like he’s hidden.
-
Saunders and Ferguson both had seasons worse than this and both kept their job, to be given a season with their own squad.
Both succeeded
Not in league 2 though.
This Coach, he isn’t a manager ( that’s the problem, he has no managerial experience at all )
Is the worst of all time.
He makes Fergie look like Guardiola, Steve Wignal look like Arteta and Wellens look like Klopp.
The Football we have seen from this man is the most boring, uninspiring I have ever witnessed
Yes it was bad under Wellens last season very bad but DS has a better squad than Wellens had last season and we are a league lower.
Wellens would have got us in the play offs this season if he had been our manager with this squad imo.
DS wins this contest of worst ever hands down imo.
The Richardson era you can’t count because there was so much interference from him and Weaver.
Thought we’d agreed managerial experience wasn’t important?
We were at different levels but that’s not really
Important, I don’t think anyone on here was saying it’s ok because we’re not in league 2.
Fact is both had seasons which were far below the expectation, and would’ve probably been sacked by most other clubs.
We stuck with them and they succeeded, hopefully the same will happen again
When did we agree that Managerial experience wasn’t important?
Where on earth have you conjured that one up from.
I certainly have never said that. Quite the opposite in fact.
When we discussed the many managers that have succeeded with no previous experience, when we discussed the fact that every single manager out there had to have a job at one stage with no experience.
The experience argument is flawed and makes no sense to me
Quite right. The big successful clubs always appoint untested managers with no experience in management or legacy of success, and then tolerate months of abject failure, poor performance, terrible results, and significant fan unrest.
I’m no fan of Schofield but to be fair you’ve just described Arsenal and Arteta pretty perfectly and he’s managed to turn that around.
He might have picked a few bits up during his long career at the highest level of football, his international career, and his years of learning as Pep's second in command? I'm also not sure his transition was as abject as this, or that the fans were so united in opposition. Even so I'd suggest it was an atypical appointment, and not generally how big clubs operate?
-
Think we can all agree he has done shite and it has gone worse than expected. If he is still to be here next season the board need to seriously back him so there is no excuses.
We need a marquee signing very very early doors to try bring fans back on side and I think he needs a new assistant in the back room staff with a bit more experience than what we have.
We also need to get Blunt out forgot about that point.
-
Copps knew that Gary Mcsheffrey had no support or budget. The fans were given the impression via the propaganda machine that we had a budget to bounce back decisively. From the outside it looked like Mcsheffrey was doing a terrible job. When Mcsheffrey was sacked this was the statement from Blunt.
The club’s chairman, David Blunt, said in a statement: “While results so far in Sky Bet League Two have been largely positive, there has been a growing concern over the standard of performances in matches and a lack of progress between games.
“We feel this is threatening our ability to achieve our stated goals for the season.
“We have also been disappointed that our wishes for a particular style of play and overall identity, which were clearly laid out over the summer, have not been brought into effect in competitive matches.
We are confident the squad that has been assembled is more than capable of challenging for promotion with an entertaining and attacking approach, and have reached a consensus that change is required in order to ensure we have the best chance of doing so.
*********
So what's changed? If Mcsheffreys style of play wasn't good enough then how is Danny Schofields? If the squad of players were good enough for promotion under Gary Mcsheffrey how are they now the worst in the country on form now?
I know injuries have been bad but we've looked awful under Danny's stint as Manager. He needs to go. And so does Blunt too.
-
If the stories about significantly more funds next season are true and I am somewhat skeptical after some of the promises we have been made over the last 2 years!!
To save money why don't we get one less player signed and the money saved from that we can pay off our head coach? :woohoo: :woohoo:
-
Copps knew that Gary Mcsheffrey had no support or budget. The fans were given the impression via the propaganda machine that we had a budget to bounce back decisively. From the outside it looked like Mcsheffrey was doing a terrible job. When Mcsheffrey was sacked this was the statement from Blunt.
The club’s chairman, David Blunt, said in a statement: “While results so far in Sky Bet League Two have been largely positive, there has been a growing concern over the standard of performances in matches and a lack of progress between games.
“We feel this is threatening our ability to achieve our stated goals for the season.
“We have also been disappointed that our wishes for a particular style of play and overall identity, which were clearly laid out over the summer, have not been brought into effect in competitive matches.
We are confident the squad that has been assembled is more than capable of challenging for promotion with an entertaining and attacking approach, and have reached a consensus that change is required in order to ensure we have the best chance of doing so.
*********
So what's changed? If Mcsheffreys style of play wasn't good enough then how is Danny Schofields? If the squad of players were good enough for promotion under Gary Mcsheffrey how are they now the worst in the country on form now?
I know injuries have been bad but we've looked awful under Danny's stint as Manager. He needs to go. And so does Blunt too.
As with all styles of football, whatever the preferred formation, if any of the parts faulter, the machine falls apart. If replacement parts aren't readily available and you're bodging up, then it's really difficult.
With all human beings, we tend to want to find a single fault. We go round in circles pointing fingers, is it the players, is it the manager, is it the owners? Its a combination of all those. When clubs find success it's also difficult to pinpoint how it all came together and that's why there are more failures than successes in football.
Even before this season ends, there's already a high degree of sceptism before we go into the transfer window and the new season. This can only make life more difficult for everyone but that scepticism has plagued us throughout our history.
Our HoF is backing Schofield going into next season. All I'm saying is he's eminently more qualified than I or any of us to make footballing decisions. Yes, he's also human and we should allow him to make mistakes and learn.
As he says, we can't keep calling for managers heads everytime things go wrong, we can't put Copps on notice each time there's a coach we deem to be failing, we can't keep calling for new additional investmen or ownership, each time there's a campaign that doesn't achieve promotion.
As difficult as it is, we should at least try to wipe the slate clean for next season and take each game on merit. Please leave the knives at home. Ha ha.
-
Interesting thought.
Who was the last permanent (not caretaker) manager that we sacked without giving them at least a close season in charge?
Anyone?
Dickov?
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
But is he Copps mate?
-
As he says, we can't keep calling for managers heads everytime things go wrong, we can't put Copps on notice each time there's a coach we deem to be failing, we can't keep calling for new additional investment or ownership, each time there's a campaign that doesn't achieve promotion.
[/quote]
Agreed. However the communication from the board is certainly heavily to blame for the appointments and sackings.
A power struggle between managers and board have happened on more than one occasion leading to resignations and sackings.
From statements like "we aren't in a relegation fight" to "bouncing back decisively" to Mcsheffrey not meeting the standards " We are confident the squad that has been assembled is more than capable of challenging for promotion with an entertaining and attacking approach" to now Terry's acknowledgement of a lack of funding for the first team... All after months of messages about self sustainability.
We now have someone as head coach the vast majority of fans don't back. We find the football dull and truth be told the set up poor. The recruitment has matched that. Danny spoke about needing more physicality in the team yet loaned Nelson from Leicester, Todd Miller from Brighton and signed Lavery from Scunny. These lads maybe good footballers in the future or squad players but none are what we needed for this division. Brown also doesn't really cut it, certainly not in comparison to Knoyle. Was this all down to money or lack of it in January as Copps alluded to?
Well either way the recruitment was poor. The football poorer. The expectations set for the fans come from the board.
It's maybe a case of the boy who cried wolf. Because fans aren't believing what's been said and have no faith anymore. Maybe though with regards to investment and forward plans and vision it's the truth... But like the villagers nobody believes what is said anymore.
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
Linked with Walsall
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
But is he Copps mate?
Was Schofield Copps mate before Copps’ interactions with Huddersfield? Genuine question
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
But is he Copps mate?
Was Schofield Copps mate before Copps’ interactions with Huddersfield? Genuine question
No idea in truth mate. Was just a tongue in cheek post from me.
-
Interesting thought.
Who was the last permanent (not caretaker) manager that we sacked without giving them at least a close season in charge?
Anyone?
Dickov?
No. He got two L1 close seasons I think. 2014 and 2015. Plus of course, most of 2013 before our Championship season.
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
But is he Copps mate?
Was Schofield Copps mate before Copps’ interactions with Huddersfield? Genuine question
Mate or not, it exposes the flimsiness of Copps' contacts if the only bloke he's willing to back is the one he met when he'd been sent on a crash course to learn the job he was completely unqualified and ill-equipped for. And Schofield's inflexibility on the pitch is being mirrored by Copps' in the boardroom and slowly strangling the life out of us.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
-
Interesting thought.
Who was the last permanent (not caretaker) manager that we sacked without giving them at least a close season in charge?
Anyone?
Dickov?
No. He got two L1 close seasons I think. 2014 and 2015. Plus of course, most of 2013 before our Championship season.
apologies, misread it
-
Dickov was appointed 20 May 2013 and left on 8 September 2015.
He had the close season at start of 2013/14, 2014/15 and 2015/16 seasons.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
Why?
Before the injury crisis really took hold, he was getting mid-table form out of a mid-table group of players.
-
I would say we were getting mid table results but the form and quality of football was certainly not mid table.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
Why?
Before the injury crisis really took hold, he was getting mid-table form out of a mid-table group of players.
Do you think he has it in him to improve a group of players so that they achieve more than it would seem they could on paper? So that they can become more than the sum of their parts? That is objective of the role he is in.
It has been achieved by those in charge at Leyton Orient, Stevenage, Northampton and Carlisle.
On the flip side, Salford and Bradford should really be doing better.
If like Salford and Bradford we are sat in 7th/8th next season and don’t get promoted can we really say “oh well that’s the level of the players and the budget”.
Things are more always more complicated than that and the smarter managers get ahead by other means. Billy can you give me examples of where DS has changed his set up pre/in-game to gain a tactical advantage?
Also to add to that hound is correct.
-
Our early season luck, rather than form skewered the equation.
Without that initial luck we would now be in grave danger for our league survival.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
Why?
Before the injury crisis really took hold, he was getting mid-table form out of a mid-table group of players.
Give over
Form since New Year. 20 games and 15 points.
First 10 of those games selecting the starting XI almost exclusively from the core 15 best players before the injury crisis took hold: 10 points.
Second 10 of those games with increasing numbers of core players unavailable: 5 points.
We have been in relegation form since New Year. Half of that time playing the best XI or very close to it.
Want to risk that continuing into next season? I don't.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
Why?
Before the injury crisis really took hold, he was getting mid-table form out of a mid-table group of players.
Billy we are not the only team with injuries.
Making that an excuse is very very blinkered. It is not a credible excuse. We were also awful with a fit squad.
Any competent Manager would have changed the system we play a long time ago to 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3
He has not had the foresight to do that. Not even during a game we were losing. His use of substitutions have been appalling. Either too late in the game or simply like for like making no impact. Or in most games both.
You keep defending a Coach who has shown himself to be inflexible, stubborn, blinkered, tactically incompetent and quite clearly unable to motivate and inspire players.
Every single one of our squad except Maxwell imo has gone backwards as a player under him.
Not counting Barlow, B. Miller or Agard as they have played so few games.
Even Faulkner is not as confident as he was earlier in the season.
The football is desperately boring, we create next to nothing and the fans are leaving in droves.
Sorry BST if you think there is a credible reason for keeping him as coach with all of the above then seriously I don’t get it.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
Why?
Before the injury crisis really took hold, he was getting mid-table form out of a mid-table group of players.
Give over
Form since New Year. 20 games and 15 points.
First 10 of those games selecting the starting XI almost exclusively from the core 15 best players before the injury crisis took hold: 10 points.
Second 10 of those games with increasing numbers of core players unavailable: 5 points.
We have been in relegation form since New Year. Half of that time playing the best XI or very close to it.
Want to risk that continuing into next season? I don't.
If you insist on selectively choosing your timeframe to support the conclusion you want to reach, you'll always arrive at the same conclusion.
-
When comparing the current situation to when other managers in the past have overseen similarly rotten form there is one thing you all seem to be neglecting.
It's the one thing that has made me much more vociferous and vocal (online not at the games) on this manager than any of the others. And much more worried.
And that's the jeopardy involved.
If Danny Schofield is unable to turn things round with new signings and the form since New Year (including before the injury crisis struck) continues into next season then.....
......Doncaster Rovers will be under serious threat of getting relegated out of the Football League.
In my view giving him time is really not a risk worth taking given the potential downside consequence.
Why?
Before the injury crisis really took hold, he was getting mid-table form out of a mid-table group of players.
Give over
Form since New Year. 20 games and 15 points.
First 10 of those games selecting the starting XI almost exclusively from the core 15 best players before the injury crisis took hold: 10 points.
Second 10 of those games with increasing numbers of core players unavailable: 5 points.
We have been in relegation form since New Year. Half of that time playing the best XI or very close to it.
Want to risk that continuing into next season? I don't.
If you insist on selectively choosing your timeframe to support the conclusion you want to reach, you'll always arrive at the same conclusion.
Yes I've chosen a timeframe since New Year.
Since New Year Doncaster Rovers have been in relegation form both before and after the injury crisis struck.
Fact.
-
CR.
Yesterday we had 13 first team squad players missing through injury or returning from injury and not being fit to start.
That included 4 centre halves, our top scorer and second and third choice strikers, a left back who was the best player in the side until injury and the best two central midfielders at the club.
You keep saying that other clubs have injuries, and I agree, they do. But do you want to find me any other side that has had a list like that and succeded?
-
READ THIS Danny Schofield so there is no misunderstanding
WE DON'T WANT YOU
GO NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Branton.
No.You haven't.
You've actually chosen a time frame that started at 17:10 on New Year's Day. Don't try to claim some sort of neutral objectivity here. You've deliberately chosen an arbitrary start to make the point you want to make.
-
Branton.
No.You haven't.
You've actually chosen a time frame that started at 17:10 on New Year's Day. Don't try to claim some sort of neutral objectivity here. You've deliberately chosen an arbitrary start to make the point you want to make.
Sorry are you losing your sanity here?!
Since New Year's Day (if you insist) Rovers have been in relegation form. I'm very concerned that may continue into next season.
-
BST talking about being selective whilst ignoring difficult questions, I’ll ask again:
Can you give me examples of where DS has changed his set up pre/in-game to gain an advantage ?
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
He won’t be getting a head start next season.
It’s conjecture I know, but imagine if he managed for the whole of this season.
-
Branton.
No.You haven't.
You've actually chosen a time frame that started at 17:10 on New Year's Day. Don't try to claim some sort of neutral objectivity here. You've deliberately chosen an arbitrary start to make the point you want to make.
Billy
He was appointed to get us promoted in style. He's not no style, has no sense of tactical knowledge and has barely avoided relegation.
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
He won’t be getting a head start next season.
It’s conjecture I know, but imagine if he managed for the whole of this season.
As I've said elsewhere today, from his appointment until when the injury crisis really started to get silly was about 20 matches - we gained points at the rate about equal to 11-12th place over that period. Not outstanding, but not the bareen wasteland that some would have you beieve.
-
And as I and others keep saying, the football being served up was extremely boring and of poor quality.
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
He won’t be getting a head start next season.
It’s conjecture I know, but imagine if he managed for the whole of this season.
As I've said elsewhere today, from his appointment until when the injury crisis really started to get silly was about 20 matches - we gained points at the rate about equal to 11-12th place over that period. Not outstanding, but not the bareen wasteland that some would have you beieve.
So less successful than Mcsheffrey and in a worse style?
Failure.
-
Branton.
A week or two ago, you were lecturing us that looking at Schofield's early spell in charge was unfair as we played a lot of weak sides.
Yet, over the last few days you have hammered on a his record of three wins from an arbitrarily chosen 10 games - a period that included 8 games against promotion/playoff contenders.
Now you're running that period into the subsequent 10 games where even you accept that we've had an injury crisis.
Which way do you really want to play it, because it looks like you're choosing every possible mutually contradictory slant to emphasise your point.
-
Branton.
A week or two ago, you were lecturing us that looking at Schofield's early spell in charge was unfair as we played a lot of weak sides.
Yet, over the last few days you have hammered on a his record of three wins from an arbitrarily chosen 10 games - a period that included 8 games against promotion/playoff contenders.
Now you're running that period into the subsequent 10 games where even you accept that we've had an injury crisis.
Which way do you really want to play it, because it looks like you're choosing every possible mutually contradictory slant to emphasise your point.
Rovers played Hartlepool (22nd), Tranmere (14th), Barrow (12th), Harrogate (21st) all at home in those 10 games. None are/were at the time serious play off contenders
Want to try again?
-
Tranmere would have been 1 point off the playoffs had they beaten us that day.
Barrow were four points off when we played them. Had they beaten us, they'd have gone into March 2 points off 7th place. Of course they were both contenders.
-
What place were we when McSheffery left? If the best DS has done is pick up points for a short spell at at a very mid table rate it’s not really an endorsement of him.
-
CR.
Yesterday we had 13 first team squad players missing through injury or returning from injury and not being fit to start.
That included 4 centre halves, our top scorer and second and third choice strikers, a left back who was the best player in the side until injury and the best two central midfielders at the club.
You keep saying that other clubs have injuries, and I agree, they do. But do you want to find me any other side that has had a list like that and succeded?
For a start how many goals has George Miller scored since DS arrived? 3 goals. 2 in one game.
Why because of the way he sets the team up.
There is no point is there having a discussion because your blinkers are bigger than the ones DS is wearing.
-
CR.
Yesterday we had 13 first team squad players missing through injury or returning from injury and not being fit to start.
That included 4 centre halves, our top scorer and second and third choice strikers, a left back who was the best player in the side until injury and the best two central midfielders at the club.
You keep saying that other clubs have injuries, and I agree, they do. But do you want to find me any other side that has had a list like that and succeded?
For a start how many goals has George Miller scored since DS arrived? 3 goals. 2 in one game.
Why because of the way he sets the team up.
There is no point is there having a discussion because your blinkers are bigger than the ones DS is wearing.
But look how effective his signature forward signings have done!! Lavery and Todd Miller have been on fire! ;)
-
What place were we when McSheffery left? If the best DS has done is pick up points for a short spell at at a very mid table rate it’s not really an endorsement of him.
Once again. Because we'd had a very fortuitous spell of results at the start of the season. By September, we were already rumbled. Get in Clayton's face, and since he is about as quick as glacial erosion, our style of play would (and did) fall apart.
Then there was the retirement of our real bright spot - Tomlin. By early Autumn, we were settling down to what we really were - a mid table side that had massively over-achieved for the first few games.
-
Tranmere would have been 1 point off the playoffs had they beaten us that day.
Barrow were four points off when we played them. Had they beaten us, they'd have gone into March 2 points off 7th place. Of course they were both contenders.
Yet Rovers "haven't been serious playoff contenders all season." Even when they were 8th and 1 point off the play offs on 1st January
See your inconsistency?? It looks like you're choosing every possible mutually contradictory slant to emphasise your point.
On the basis of the above 15 out of 24 teams were play off contenders around that time (sorry 14 forgot to take Rovers off).
-
The point on Miller is valid I think. If your going to look beyond results to context then we need to go deeper and recognise that Miller wasn’t the same player under DS. Losing a player who barely touched the ball isn’t the same as losing the player who scored those goals early season.
-
Branton you and me are wasting our time.
Billy is never wrong.
He will the same as dickos argue that Black is White and Red is Blue and Green is Yellow. :headbang:
-
Tranmere would have been 1 point off the playoffs had they beaten us that day.
Barrow were four points off when we played them. Had they beaten us, they'd have gone into March 2 points off 7th place. Of course they were both contenders.
Yet Rovers "haven't been serious playoff contenders all season." Even when they were 8th and 1 point of the play offs on 1st January
See your inconsistency?? It looks like you're choosing every possible mutually contradictory slant to emphasise your point.
On the basis of the above 15 out of 24 teams were play off contenders around that time (sorry 14 forgot to take Rovers off).
Branton.
You really do insist on looking at dates and figure in isolation.
On 1st Jan, yes we're were 1 point off the playoffs. But we had been in nothing like playoff form for over 4 months, since that early glut of points. We had picked up 23 points in the previous 18 games. It was the very dictionary definition of a false position.
Even with that fantastic early run, we hadn't been in a playoff position since mid September.
Tranmere had been in the playoff positions a month later and although they had a poor Nov/Dec, they were back in form from Xmas. Had they beaten us at KMS (you say our win was daylight robbery) that would have come in the middle of a run of 23 points in 13 games - the sort of run that brings midtable sides into the playoff pack.
Barrow had been in the playoff positions most of the autumn. They also had a dip, but then bounced back. Had they beaten us, they'd have been 2 points off the playoffs as late as 1 April.
Do you really want to continue this?
-
CR.
And there you go again.
Have a think.
Why is ME giving reasoned arguments to support an opinion "me never being wrong"? But YOU giving your opinion and dismissing what I say, perfectly reasonable?
I'm giving an opinion. You can agree with it or not. You can ignore it altogether if you like. Why get so angry and personal about it?
-
CR.
And there you go again.
Have a think.
Why is ME giving reasoned arguments to support an opinion "me never being wrong"? But YOU giving your opinion and dismissing what I say, perfectly reasonable?
I'm giving an opinion. You can agree with it or not. You can ignore it altogether if you like. Why get so angry and personal about it?
Because your reasoning first of all is flawed. Secondly you don’t answer the question.
Are you not answering because you know deep down that DS is not capable of getting us promoted?
No I am not getting angry with you BST you’re entitled to your opinion as I have said. No also i am not getting personal either. Where am I being personal?
You are obviously not happy at me being persistent and wanting your answer. Which you are refusing to give. Why is that?
-
Kevin Philips is available after leaving South Shields full of ambition and a promotion on his cv already
But is he Copps mate?
Schofield wasn’t
-
Branton you and me are wasting our time.
Billy is never wrong.
He will the same as dickos argue that Black is White and Red is Blue and Green is Yellow. :headbang:
You really are an embarrassment!
When you’ve no answer you just resort to name calling.
-
Branton you and me are wasting our time.
Billy is never wrong.
He will the same as dickos argue that Black is White and Red is Blue and Green is Yellow. :headbang:
You really are an embarrassment!
When you’ve no answer you just resort to name calling.
No answer. I thought it was me that asked the question.
You will argue till the cows come home. Hardly name calling is it?
-
Branton you and me are wasting our time.
Billy is never wrong.
He will the same as dickos argue that Black is White and Red is Blue and Green is Yellow. :headbang:
You really are an embarrassment!
When you’ve no answer you just resort to name calling.
No answer. I thought it was me that asked the question.
You will argue till the cows come home. Hardly name calling is it?
You’ve got your opinion, I’ve got mine, but numerous times you mention me in your posts.
It’s embarrassing
-
CR.
And there you go again.
Have a think.
Why is ME giving reasoned arguments to support an opinion "me never being wrong"? But YOU giving your opinion and dismissing what I say, perfectly reasonable?
I'm giving an opinion. You can agree with it or not. You can ignore it altogether if you like. Why get so angry and personal about it?
Because your reasoning first of all is flawed. Secondly you don’t answer the question.
Are you not answering because you know deep down that DS is not capable of getting us promoted?
No I am not getting angry with you BST you’re entitled to your opinion as I have said. No also i am not getting personal either. Where am I being personal?
You are obviously not happy at me being persistent and wanting your answer. Which you are refusing to give. Why is that?
CR
I've given my answer. On balance, I'd prefer to keep Schofield rather than have yet another upheaval. Because I don't agree with the arguments that he and he alone has been responsible for the disaster of this season.
I cannot say whether he will win us promotion, any more than anyone else can say that any manager will.
I don't feel the need to answer every single question that someone fires at me, especially when I've answered it already.
-
On balance, I'd prefer to keep Schofield rather than have yet another upheaval. Because I don't agree with the arguments that he and he alone has been responsible for the disaster of this season.
I cannot say whether he will win us promotion, any more than anyone else can say that any manager will.
[/quote] Not too often I agree BST but yup do this time, cant be bothered to sort it out so it quotes properly :)
-
Bring in an experienced manager now and we'll avoid more upheaval in January.
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
He won’t be getting a head start next season.
It’s conjecture I know, but imagine if he managed for the whole of this season.
As I've said elsewhere today, from his appointment until when the injury crisis really started to get silly was about 20 matches - we gained points at the rate about equal to 11-12th place over that period. Not outstanding, but not the bareen wasteland that some would have you beieve.
So less successful than Mcsheffrey and in a worse style?
Failure.
Think people romanticise what McSheffrey did. His football certainly wasn't prime Guardiola. I had a bad neck from watching McSheffreyball.
-
BST talking about being selective whilst ignoring difficult questions, I’ll ask again:
Can you give me examples of where DS has changed his set up pre/in-game to gain an advantage ?
Or can anyone else please? Dickos1?
-
Bring in an experienced manager now and we'll avoid more upheaval in January.
This is key for me, we are going to have to have the upheaval at some point, there is nothing in any of our discussions that suggest Schofield is a good or even competent manager, only the extent to which his abject failure should be mitigated by other factors. So in my opinion we are much better to pull the plaster off now, it will be unpleasant and disruptive, but gives a full pre-season to get in a decent manager, and more importantly means the generous once every few years investment from our owners is spent on a long term plan, rather than a manager clinging on to a job by his fingernails for a couple more painful months.
-
CR.
And there you go again.
Have a think.
Why is ME giving reasoned arguments to support an opinion "me never being wrong"? But YOU giving your opinion and dismissing what I say, perfectly reasonable?
I'm giving an opinion. You can agree with it or not. You can ignore it altogether if you like. Why get so angry and personal about it?
Because your reasoning first of all is flawed. Secondly you don’t answer the question.
Are you not answering because you know deep down that DS is not capable of getting us promoted?
No I am not getting angry with you BST you’re entitled to your opinion as I have said. No also i am not getting personal either. Where am I being personal?
You are obviously not happy at me being persistent and wanting your answer. Which you are refusing to give. Why is that?
CR
I've given my answer. On balance, I'd prefer to keep Schofield rather than have yet another upheaval. Because I don't agree with the arguments that he and he alone has been responsible for the disaster of this season.
I cannot say whether he will win us promotion, any more than anyone else can say that any manager will.
I don't feel the need to answer every single question that someone fires at me, especially when I've answered it already.
That's fine you don't want the upheaval and I take injuries as a point (debatable how serious some of these are and how many would be playing if we were more successful but that's a different matter.
However under Schofield our strikers haven't scored goals, that's not personnel that's the system (and I've heard that first hand from one of the strikers finding it a very tough and odd system to play under - and Schofield signed him).
We continually concede goals because he insists on playing out for the back which our players seem incapable of.
He's set us up with 5 at the back in nearly every game for nearly every minute with no intent to change that around.
Players that had form have ended up with none and going backwards.
The transitions between defense, midfield and attack don't work at all well, they're all seperate units with no cohesion.
His choice of substitutions are at best poor.
All of that is on the coaching team. Yes there are other issues, but it seems fairly logical to me that there's clear weaknesses in the coaching setup right now and I struggle to see how a bit more time and funds will fix the constant use of 5 at the back or isolation of our (previously scoring) strikers.
-
Presumably Schofield has us playing out from the back partly because Mitchells's long kick is consistently poor and our outfield players are mostly of the lightweight variety and easily beaten to the ball. Similarly we have been victims of the long throw and set pieces all season, is this coaching ineptitude or is it because we don't have the players needed ?
-
Presumably Schofield has us playing out from the back partly because Mitchells's long kick is consistently poor and our outfield players are mostly of the lightweight variety and easily beaten to the ball. Similarly we have been victims of the long throw and set pieces all season, is this coaching ineptitude or is it because we don't have the players needed ?
The long throw and set pieces has been a problem going back to DM unfortunately
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
-
I was talking to someone on Saturday at the game who said we should play to our strengths.
It did make us think, with that team, what our strengths are?
Answers on a postcard please.
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
He won’t be getting a head start next season.
It’s conjecture I know, but imagine if he managed for the whole of this season.
As I've said elsewhere today, from his appointment until when the injury crisis really started to get silly was about 20 matches - we gained points at the rate about equal to 11-12th place over that period. Not outstanding, but not the bareen wasteland that some would have you beieve.
So less successful than Mcsheffrey and in a worse style?
Failure.
Think people romanticise what McSheffrey did. His football certainly wasn't prime Guardiola. I had a bad neck from watching McSheffreyball.
McSheffrey was awful. Just because it's not gone well since doesn't mean we should've kept him. In reality it was absolute madness to appoint him in the first place when we still had a chance of getting out of the mire in L1. You're only as good as your recruitment, and that goes for players and head coaches/managers.
-
Am I right in thinking rovers had 21pts when Schofield took over?
Correct. From the 14 league games under McSheffrey in League Two this season we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
He won’t be getting a head start next season.
It’s conjecture I know, but imagine if he managed for the whole of this season.
As I've said elsewhere today, from his appointment until when the injury crisis really started to get silly was about 20 matches - we gained points at the rate about equal to 11-12th place over that period. Not outstanding, but not the bareen wasteland that some would have you beieve.
So less successful than Mcsheffrey and in a worse style?
Failure.
Think people romanticise what McSheffrey did. His football certainly wasn't prime Guardiola. I had a bad neck from watching McSheffreyball.
McSheffrey was awful. Just because it's not gone well since doesn't mean we should've kept him. In reality it was absolute madness to appoint him in the first place when we still had a chance of getting out of the mire in L1. You're only as good as your recruitment, and that goes for players and head coaches/managers.
The absolute disaster of appointing an inexperienced coach in GM was doubled down on when they then did it all again with the current failure, some sound advice at that point could and should of resulted in us getting some experience and know how into the club and saving out 3rd tier standing.
That point was when the purse should been opened and some quality brought into the club in both players and management, the board are now reaping their own whirlwind of mistakes and misjudgments and its costing TB.
The fact that we seem to have learnt nothing and still allow this failing management regime to persist means by this time next year god only knows how bad it could be. Our league status could well depend on action now.
Nothing will change until changes are implemented, absolutely nothing.
Lets see how long TB is prepared to fund this disaster of a regime under him.
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
This.
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
agree tbh
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
This.
I agree with MM to a degree. The team has been crying out for big characters and leadership on the pitch since Whiteman left. The fact that this has been studiously ignored by the footballing hierarchy is baffling. It’s almost as if they’ve been too nesh to engage with anyone who might be ‘bigger’ than them.
None of the last four managers seems to have even tried to address our footballing mentality. I think that Schofields problem is that he also doesn’t appear to be trying on this front and, being the latest in line, he’s now bearing the brunt of fan frustration.
JRs interview on another thread drew a sharp contrast; a willingness to embrace big personalities and take calculated risks as part of driving the club forward. Not ‘fannying about at the back’!
-
McSheffrey was got rid of because he didn't agree with the recruitment of players who they were giving him to work with and him having very little say in them. He has been proved right.
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
1, So the players are mentally gone,
2, DS is doing what he can with them.
3, Playing out from the back is what we're least bad at,
4, The most limited group of players in 20 years.
Dear me, where do you start, we know everyone has an opinion.
1, Could this have something to do with the flawed process that is being forced on them? some of these players are barely recognisable from their previous standards, no one bar maybe Maxwell have performed under this regime.
2, DS has come in and limpet like will not deviate from his preferred systems, so after the catalogue of disasters that we have had to witness we can say that DS is doing ALL he can?
3, Don't agree with this one iota, if we are to think that our efforts at playing out from the back is our least worse option then we really should pack it in and call it a day, we are a football club, of all the myriad way's of executing a game to settle on such a limited and debunked system that even premiership clubs have trouble in performing is idiotic and a lapse in duty from the management, its akin to saying to all the teams in our division we surrender and you can do with us what you wish, we could play a reasonable 4231 or even a 442 with the personnel we have available and play a fluid and attacking style, we may get beat, yes, just like the present but at least we would have giving it a go and not rolled over and allowed the opposition to tickle our bellies like the present"playing it out from the back" is leading to.
4, This "most limited group of players in 20 years" at the start of the season had most of us thinking we should be able to at least achieve a play off position, some thought more. To virtually destroy the mental willingness of the squad in the manner we have witnessed is criminal, the players are in effect performing like addicts who have had their hits removed, a manger with gumption and experience would of had this group playing far closer to their handicap then the current regime, undoubtedly.
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
1, So the players are mentally gone,
2, DS is doing what he can with them.
3, Playing out from the back is what we're least bad at,
4, The most limited group of players in 20 years.
Dear me, where do you start, we know everyone has an opinion.
1, Could this have something to do with the flawed process that is being forced on them? some of these players are barely recognisable from their previous standards, no one bar maybe Maxwell have performed under this regime.
2, DS has come in and limpet like will not deviate from his preferred systems, so after the catalogue of disasters that we have had to witness we can say that DS is doing ALL he can?
3, Don't agree with this one iota, if we are to think that our efforts at playing out from the back is our least worse option then we really should pack it in and call it a day, we are a football club, of all the myriad way's of executing a game to settle on such a limited and debunked system that even premiership clubs have trouble in performing is idiotic and a lapse in duty from the management, its akin to saying to all the teams in our division we surrender and you can do with us what you wish, we could play a reasonable 4231 or even a 442 with the personnel we have available and play a fluid and attacking style, we may get beat, yes, just like the present but at least we would have giving it a go and not rolled over and allowed the opposition to tickle our bellies like the present"playing it out from the back" is leading to.
4, This "most limited group of players in 20 years" at the start of the season had most of us thinking we should be able to at least achieve a play off position, some thought more. To virtually destroy the mental willingness of the squad in the manner we have witnessed is criminal, the players are in effect performing like addicts who have had their hits removed, a manger with gumption and experience would of had this group playing far closer to their handicap then the current regime, undoubtedly.
100% correct.
We have a coaching staff who quite frankly are not fit for purpose.
Only Maxwell has made any improvement as a player.
Our 2 brightest sparks under GmS Hurst and Miller have deteriorated alarmingly under this coach.
He has destroyed all the players, both their collective and individual confidence and the results and team performances is all the evidence needed to back that up.
You can only play this 5-2-3 if you have 2 very good midfielders in that 2 & if you have a big physically strong centre forward.
We have neither of those positions covered with what’s needed to play this formation. ( Even with a 100% fit squad )
Yet DS has persisted with this formation for 30 league games which we have managed to get 31 points from.
That’s equivalent to 48/49 points over 46 games & would take you down to the National league in many seasons.
For any Coach not to try something that might just suit the players we have such as 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2
The latter being my preference.
It is not only short sighted but is showing how inflexible, stubborn and blinkered he is, to such a degree it’s bordering on insanity.
How many games and at what stage of the season and position in the table would we have to be in would it take for him to change it.
If he had started the season, with his current points total converted to 44 games we would now be sitting in 21st position in the table.
Yes only Crawley, Hartlepool & Rochdale below us.
If that gives anyone confidence for next season then I would like what you’re on please.
-
CR not only that but his total lack of being able to impact a game with substitutes shows for me he’s not ready.
I accept he’s been dealt a bit of a duff hand with the injuries but so have other teams and they adapt. Thinking about have injuries been accentuated by the system-would Miller, Lavery et Al have picked up injuries if they weren’t ploughing a lone furrow up top (purely hypothetical of course)
How many times have we on the sidelines been screaming for fresh legs but nothing changes until the game is lost.
The players at Stevenage were absolutely lost in if they should play it short or hoof it upfield there didn’t appear to be any plan.
Winning breeds confidence so I dread to think where Molyneux and Hurst are right now
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
1, So the players are mentally gone,
2, DS is doing what he can with them.
3, Playing out from the back is what we're least bad at,
4, The most limited group of players in 20 years.
Dear me, where do you start, we know everyone has an opinion.
1, Could this have something to do with the flawed process that is being forced on them? some of these players are barely recognisable from their previous standards, no one bar maybe Maxwell have performed under this regime.
2, DS has come in and limpet like will not deviate from his preferred systems, so after the catalogue of disasters that we have had to witness we can say that DS is doing ALL he can?
3, Don't agree with this one iota, if we are to think that our efforts at playing out from the back is our least worse option then we really should pack it in and call it a day, we are a football club, of all the myriad way's of executing a game to settle on such a limited and debunked system that even premiership clubs have trouble in performing is idiotic and a lapse in duty from the management, its akin to saying to all the teams in our division we surrender and you can do with us what you wish, we could play a reasonable 4231 or even a 442 with the personnel we have available and play a fluid and attacking style, we may get beat, yes, just like the present but at least we would have giving it a go and not rolled over and allowed the opposition to tickle our bellies like the present"playing it out from the back" is leading to.
4, This "most limited group of players in 20 years" at the start of the season had most of us thinking we should be able to at least achieve a play off position, some thought more. To virtually destroy the mental willingness of the squad in the manner we have witnessed is criminal, the players are in effect performing like addicts who have had their hits removed, a manger with gumption and experience would of had this group playing far closer to their handicap then the current regime, undoubtedly.
1. Yep.
2. Basically, yep. I have some concerns about the mentality and organisation in the team but broadly the players we currently have available are poor. Even full strength, we are a bang average L2 side that has no real identity or style of play that they are capable of.
3. 4-4-2! With what players? Goodman and Agard up front, one young lad and one half-fit old lad, both are triers but both are blowing out their arses after 60 minutes and there's no one to replace them with on the bench.
It's all very well picking holes in "the system" but the solutions put forward on here are just not workable. You want 4-4-2/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 attempting fluid attacking football or direct Penney style aggressive play? You would get tonked by 4 or 5 every week with this group of players. Works on Football Manager. Is not going to work with a defence full of kids, a keeper who butters his gloves before every match and who can't kick a ball, a slow powder puff midfield, and players up front who are currently not physically up to it.
4. Yeah, fans get optimistic when they sign loads of new players before the start of this season. We're not scouts and we're all Rovers fans hoping our signings will come good (except GazLaz, who tellingly was not that optimistic at the start of the season). Fan expectation often evaporates on contact with reality, it means very little.
As I've said for weeks, I wouldn't shed a tear if Schofield went. But he's on a hiding to nothing in this situation. Let's see how he does with a more carefully assembled squad, a bit of money behind him, and a pre-season to implement his ideas. Because there's no way he's happy with the way we're playing at the minute, but equally he can't come out and start saying the players aren't good enough. From the first whistle next season he has no excuses.
-
I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.
My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.
As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.
Most teams in the prem can’t find players to fit in a system to play out of the back or find a keeper who is good with their feet.
How on earth will DRFC ever achieve that?
We need to be realistic and I think DS/JC are being naive with how they think they will get out of this league.
Gary Neville made the point in his Salford documentary. He said he thought he could buy players who were technically better than most in the league but it doesn’t work at lower levels. You need players who can play conference/League Two style football and cope with the demands of the league.
-
I am in the camp that believes no one could do much better with the current players and that the so-called system is damage limitation. So I can understand why the Board might be prepared to be patient with DS- they might be wondering now whether they were right to sack Richie when the clamour started to build- guess it shows that sacking can also be a gamble. Whilst I can cut DS more slack than most, I do agree is that it’s hard to point to anything positive he has done amidst all the adversity- player improvement etc. and if I was on the board I would be looking for evidence now of what new players he and Copps have lined up and why, and how they are going to secure them. If I didn’t see a credible plan now for how and when Terry’s money was going to be spent I think that would worry me more than the pitiful end to the season and I would start looking elsewhere.
-
RW has gone on to prove he could have been right for us, but only with the right support and backing.
I agree on the squad of players and I’ve already said it’s woefully short on quality, but I can’t excuse DS because of that. He has shown us very little since coming in and this could be a massive risk hanging onto him for next season.
One argument I’ve read to keeping him is because of the upheaval that would ensue following his sacking, but if and when he’s sacked (in October), the upheaval at that time could be critical to our EFL existence!
Big decisions ahead, but have we got the strength of conviction to make them?
-
Branton.
You really do insist on looking at dates and figure in isolation.
On 1st Jan, yes we're were 1 point off the playoffs. But we had been in nothing like playoff form for over 4 months, since that early glut of points. We had picked up 23 points in the previous 18 games. It was the very dictionary definition of a false position.
Billy
You correctly identify that 14 points from Rovers first 6 matches is unrepresentative
You completely ignore that 7 points from the following 8 matches is also unrepresentative (results which lead to McSheffrey's departure)
You then quote a statistic which ignores the former but still includes the latter
You then have the gall to accuse me of selectivity. Utterly hilarious!
The fairest view to take is to take all 24 matches up to that point (playing the majority of teams once) into account giving a ppg of 1.54.
Or you could, as this discussion is about him, just consider Schofield's record to 1st Jan, though over a smaller sample size, giving a ppg of exactly 1.6 ("nothing like play off form for over 4 months" you say mmmm)
Either way both are extremely close to the ppg needed to be in the play offs at that point of 1.58.
Therefore, whichever way you cut it, Rovers were play off contenders at that point.
Or I could be ultra selective, like you, and claim games 7-14 were unrepresentative and that Rover had otherwise obtained 30 points from 14 games and were therefore title challengers.
Which would be just as silly as claiming a team in 8th, just 1 point off the play offs, were not serious play off contenders on 1st Jan before the evidential rot set in.
-
Unashamedly stolen.
-
I am in the camp that believes no one could do much better with the current players and that the so-called system is damage limitation. So I can understand why the Board might be prepared to be patient with DS- they might be wondering now whether they were right to sack Richie when the clamour started to build- guess it shows that sacking can also be a gamble. Whilst I can cut DS more slack than most, I do agree is that it’s hard to point to anything positive he has done amidst all the adversity- player improvement etc. and if I was on the board I would be looking for evidence now of what new players he and Copps have lined up and why, and how they are going to secure them. If I didn’t see a credible plan now for how and when Terry’s money was going to be spent I think that would worry me more than the pitiful end to the season and I would start looking elsewhere.
I would suggest Copps and DS want to return to the Sod type of football and are trying to instill it sadly our current players arent up to it so DS should have been more flexible initially we will see what the summer brings
-
I am in the camp that believes no one could do much better with the current players and that the so-called system is damage limitation. So I can understand why the Board might be prepared to be patient with DS- they might be wondering now whether they were right to sack Richie when the clamour started to build- guess it shows that sacking can also be a gamble. Whilst I can cut DS more slack than most, I do agree is that it’s hard to point to anything positive he has done amidst all the adversity- player improvement etc. and if I was on the board I would be looking for evidence now of what new players he and Copps have lined up and why, and how they are going to secure them. If I didn’t see a credible plan now for how and when Terry’s money was going to be spent I think that would worry me more than the pitiful end to the season and I would start looking elsewhere.
I would suggest Copps and DS want to return to the Sod type of football and are trying to instill it sadly our current players arent up to it so DS should have been more flexible initially we will see what the summer brings
The thing is we would of all loved having that type of football back on display but at the same time we are all pragmatic to know that it didn't come wrapped in flashy paper with bow on it, we had to work very hard as a club to reach that level. That we were managed by an old hand with experience and an authority about him that got average players playing out of their skin.
Fast forward to today, we have a very average squad who are being asked to jump through hoops they just don't like, the fact the HC is now a young and inexperienced leader he does not have the same knowledge, ideas, flexibility and authority about him to get a tune out of this lot.
Everyone can see this except the people who really matter, they obviously believe in their ability to achieve their goals but unfortunately we as a fan base have absolutely no indication that this is viable, we have no previous to go on and what we have seen so far is a group of players(no world beaters by any stretch) go backwards at a tremendous rate of knots, some of them bare no resemblance to their previous abilities and strengths, now any manager worth his salt does not do this to a squad of players, he's there to improve them not turn them into jibbering idiots.
I just can't see where he can bring in the right type of player to overcome this handicap that he imposes on the players, if he spends all of TB's money and turns them to stone as well just where will be be after the massive implosion at the club. next season could be our last in the league if we don't get this right.
Massive pressure on all including the board members, do they stick or twist?
-
We recruit young players that won’t rock the boat as the managers don’t feel able to deal with the more experienced pro’s. That leads to a side lacking in characters, as a lot are young guys trying to develop their games. They need real leaders around them. Players that can run the team for the manager on the pitch and in the dressing room.
The reducing of funding also leads to this happening. We need to be competing with other sides for players that a few want, not those that nobody wants to sign. You see what you get looking at our team at the minute, when you go down that road.