Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Chris Black come back on May 08, 2023, 02:56:34 pm
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Bogle finished with 17 league goals in 46 league games for Newport County in League Two.
May finished with 20 league goals in 39 league games for Cheltenham Town in League One.
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Bogle finished with 17 league goals in 46 league games for Newport County in League Two.
May finished with 20 league goals in 39 league games for Cheltenham Town in League One.
I was going to put this up myself. Jeff said Omar had 19 in total, plus cup I assume. May 21 in total. Even Devante Cole has something like 16. Add to that Clayton and Bostock being linchpins in their current sides. It just goes to show how badly managed we’ve been by terrible managers.
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That’s correct, I only included league goals, as stated in the original post.
They have both scored cup goals in addition.
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Our current league status lies squarely at Wellens feet he’s the stubborn one who refused to play Bogle and chose to play without a centre forward for half a dozen games last term. That’s what cost us our position in League One.
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It beggars belief that we froze out Bogle, then gave contracts to Dodoo, Hiwula, Agard and Griffith, and signed Cukur and Andrews on loan.
Bogle was never a world beater but Christ Alive, anyone could see that he was a better option than all those 6 playing at the same time.
Worst managerial decisions in decades. We should never have been in this division, and certainly not with another 18 months of paying Griffith's contract.
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Our current league status lies squarely at Wellens feet he’s the stubborn one who refused to play Bogle and chose to play without a centre forward for half a dozen games last term. That’s what cost us our position in League One.
I don't even believe that would have saved us, you could see from the season before under Andy Butler where we was heading. Sometimes you can tell just by how you finish the previous season and it carries on into the next.
It wasn't Wellens fault we blew a 3-0 lead at Morecambe or winless runs or games where we couldn't score
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McSheffery and Welles’s/Younger signing a useless squad up we’re to blame last season. The money been cut didn’t help but it didn’t equal relegation. Bogle was just one daft issue that did t help.
Missing the player was bad but the money spent on someone not contributing (who clearly could) is criminal when out budget was cut. Very stubborn from Wellens to think that was something we could afford.
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Our current league status lies squarely at Wellens feet he’s the stubborn one who refused to play Bogle and chose to play without a centre forward for half a dozen games last term. That’s what cost us our position in League One.
I don't even believe that would have saved us, you could see from the season before under Andy Butler where we was heading. Sometimes you can tell just by how you finish the previous season and it carries on into the next.
It wasn't Wellens fault we blew a 3-0 lead at Morecambe or winless runs or games where we couldn't score
It wasn’t hard to see what would happen at the end of the last two seasons.
I predicted that the losing streak would carry over into the next season, and do it was proved to be the case.
Unless Schofield goes and hopefully Blunt and Copps as well, we are in deep shyte next season because as sure as eggs are eggs, we will be in a battle to retain our league status.
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Our current league status lies squarely at Wellens feet he’s the stubborn one who refused to play Bogle and chose to play without a centre forward for half a dozen games last term. That’s what cost us our position in League One.
Bit much to suggest Wellens alone is the reason we finished where we did this season u madman
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Our current league status lies squarely at Wellens feet he’s the stubborn one who refused to play Bogle and chose to play without a centre forward for half a dozen games last term. That’s what cost us our position in League One.
Bit much to suggest Wellens alone is the reason we finished where we did this season u madman
How it has worked out would it have been worth sticking with him? Certainly would have been interesting to see how he would have done trying to get us back out of League 2.
His record really when you consider Swindon, Leyton Orient and possibly Salford maybe the least inspiring but he did at least win a trophy and the pressure to get promotion is pretty high as well plus they haven't even achieved that aim yet even now.
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In hindsight we'd have probably been better riding it our with Wellens or even McSheffrey. Ironically it seems we're now going to ride the storm with Danny and hope he comes good, despite there being very little to cling to.
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Our current league status lies squarely at Wellens feet he’s the stubborn one who refused to play Bogle and chose to play without a centre forward for half a dozen games last term. That’s what cost us our position in League One.
Bit much to suggest Wellens alone is the reason we finished where we did this season u madman
How it has worked out would it have been worth sticking with him? Certainly would have been interesting to see how he would have done trying to get us back out of League 2.
His record really when you consider Swindon, Leyton Orient and possibly Salford maybe the least inspiring but he did at least win a trophy and the pressure to get promotion is pretty high as well plus they haven't even achieved that aim yet even now.
He was only in charge for one game though in that trophy win
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Bogle finished with 17 league goals in 46 league games for Newport County in League Two.
May finished with 20 league goals in 39 league games for Cheltenham Town in League One.
I was going to put this up myself. Jeff said Omar had 19 in total, plus cup I assume. May 21 in total. Even Devante Cole has something like 16. Add to that Clayton and Bostock being linchpins in their current sides. It just goes to show how badly managed we’ve been by terrible managers.
Or terrible decisions from Directors/Chairman
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I'd have May back in a heartbeat but can't see it. Get the band back together with Marquis as well.
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Bogle finished with 17 league goals in 46 league games for Newport County in League Two.
May finished with 20 league goals in 39 league games for Cheltenham Town in League One.
Bogle continuing with decent form this season. 6 league goals in 12 league appearances, following 17 league goals in 46 league appearances last season. He's doing this for a pretty poor side also. Found a decent level for himself at 31.
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Alfie May doing very well for Charlton this season too.
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Devante Cole also doing well at Barnsley
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Anyone see the racist abuse Bogle got from a Gills fan doing the rounds on social media?
Absolutely disgraceful. Needs locking up for what he was wearing for starters.
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Gills have given him a lifetime ban.
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Devante Cole also doing well at Barnsley
Only if a penalty's involved and he wants to go against the preferred penalty taker ok he got it in the back of the net on the rebound luckily
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Anyone see the racist abuse Bogle got from a Gills fan doing the rounds on social media?
Absolutely disgraceful. Needs locking up for what he was wearing for starters.
I have seen the photo the guy should serve a prison sentence , I believe he was already banned by the club before today
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Devante Cole also doing well at Barnsley
Only if a penalty's involved and he wants to go against the preferred penalty taker ok he got it in the back of the net on the rebound luckily
That’s a bit harsh daggers.
Cole has 11 goals this season.
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Kane was the designated penalty taker, Collins says he will be sorting it out.
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It still doesn’t alter the point that Fal made, that Cole is doing well at Barnsley.
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Not saying it does
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I know, but Dagenham hinted that it might.
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That's his point of view
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Yeah, ok.
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That's his point of view
Everyone’s entitled to a point of view but equally if that point of view is daft people are entitled to point that out. Cole is having a very good season and sits top of the League One scorers chart, 2 clear of the next. To say he’s only doing well if a penalty’s involved is just not true.
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Gills have given him a lifetime ban.
Good on Gillingham. No place for scum like that at any football club.
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Devante Cole also doing well at Barnsley
Only if a penalty's involved and he wants to go against the preferred penalty taker ok he got it in the back of the net on the rebound luckily
Really , that's the first penalty he's ever taken for the club yesterday .
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Gills have given him a lifetime ban.
Good on Gillingham. No place for scum like that at any football club.
Bet he wouldn’t have done it if it had been a one to one.
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Barnsley fan spitting feathers on dee day saying Cole is after a move in Jan and wants to score as many as he can before then
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Barnsley fan spitting feathers on dee day saying Cole is after a move in Jan and wants to score as many as he can before then
I think every player is after a move further up the pyramid if they play in league one raven .
Devante is playing the best football of his career both last season and the current one .
Personally I think it's because he's found a home at Oakwell , previously he seemed to move from club to club pretty regularly , a year here and a year there sort of thing .
I'm sceptical he can do it in the championship , Devante does have limitations and I think decent league one striker is about as far has his talent will take him .
If he was 20 years old I'd probably think differently but he's 28 now .
Personally I'd keep him and let him run his contract down at the end of the season .
He didn't cost us anything , came on a free and I think his value is with finding the net for us regularly and see if we can get promoted back to the championship rather than any great financial endorsement in January .
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
9 in 13 league games before tonight. Good on him.
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
9 in 13 league games before tonight. Good on him.
Now 11 in 14 league games.
Are the Dingles playing Watters in a different role? His scoring rate has dropped right off. 4 in 32 last season and 2 in 17 this season. He’s on exactly same rate of 1 in 8 these days.
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
Again thank you Darren, a much better prospect than Golden Boy Marquis. It was very obvious that Alfie was gaining confidence and developing his game that is when given the opportunity.
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Well our Golden Boy Marquis did score 67 goals in 3 seasons for us, a feat rarely matched by many other Rovers strikers at any other point in our history. But I guess people always want more.
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That record would have been par for the course for most strikers given the virtual guarantee of never being dropped or subbed that Marquis enjoyed.
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Now come on , we were told we'd get bette than Marquis , not worse than May when he left. Many folk loved May for his effort but we had different ideas at the time as to where he and we were going . Golden Boy ? Almost ever present 20 aseason for 3 seasons what more do you want from a striker?
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We already had someone potentially better than Marquis when he left - Alfie May.
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That record would have been par for the course for most strikers given the virtual guarantee of never being dropped or subbed that Marquis enjoyed.
What a warped way of looking at it.
He was never dropped or subbed because he was our best striker, worked his knackers off and scored at a consistent rate, barely ever got injured or suspended, and clearly had the right attitude and mentality to play pretty much every game.
If it was so par for the course, why is it that you can count on virtually one hand the number of strikers in Rovers history who have scored goals at such a consistent rate?
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There's nothing warped about the fact that he was virtually guaranteed immunity from being dropped or subbed and that it is a massive advantage to be in that position.
On the other hand, it is a massive disadvantage to know that you're highly likely to be subbed in the games in which you have been sporadically selected.
There are far more than a handful of strikers in Rovers history that have scored goals at a more consistent rate than Marquis, Billy Sharp being the latest.
When May left us for Cheltenham, he was given a proper chance, unlike his time at Rovers, and although he wasn't given the same immunity from being dropped/subbed as Marquis was at Rovers, he scored the same amount of goals (67) for them as Marquis did for us.
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There's nothing warped about the fact that he was virtually guaranteed immunity from being dropped or subbed and that it is a massive advantage to be in that position.
On the other hand, it is a massive disadvantage to know that you're highly likely to be subbed in the games in which you have been sporadically selected.
There are far more than a handful of strikers in Rovers history that have scored goals at a more consistent rate than Marquis, Billy Sharp being the latest.
When May left us for Cheltenham, he was given a proper chance, unlike his time at Rovers, and although he wasn't given the same immunity from being dropped/subbed as Marquis was at Rovers, he scored the same amount of goals (67) for them as Marquis did for us.
I'm not going to keep going round in circles BB, but I'll say one last time that Marquis made himself undroppable because he was a fantastic player for us who contributed a lot to the side and scored a lot of goals. Why would any manager drop a player producing the numbers and performances that he did, regardless of whether that would've worked in favour of May, Williams, Mandeville or anyone else?
I'd be interested to hear the other strikers who scored at a similar or more consistent rate than Marquis. You've named one there in Sharp. Paul Barnes would be another from the last 20 years, but he only scored at such a rate in one season. So basically we're on 2-3 names at the moment and in the last 20 years we must have had maybe at a guess 80 to 100 strikers play for us? That's an incredibly small proportion. Since JM left the club in 2019, why have none of our strikers since scored 20+ goals a season, if it's so par-for-the-course?
In all honesty I don't really know why Marquis always crops up in this debate about Alfie May. Is it that difficult to hold multiple ideas concurrently, that maybe both of them are good players, and that perhaps one of them was just unlucky to join the club at a time where we already had a main striker in fantastic form? Does one's achievements since leaving need to detract from the other's at DRFC?
May might have been capable of producing what Marquis did if he'd have started more regularly, but we'll never know. My opinion is that he wouldn't have done at the time JM was at the club, but it's something neither of us can prove either way.
May has clearly developed and gone on to have a fantastic career since leaving us. I'm confused as to why that always seems to become intertwined with Marquis's record at DRFC? I don't think it should detract from JM's achievements with us. I also think it would've been a bit mad to drop a striker with Marquis's record for May at the time he played for us. How many managers would drop their consistent 20+ per season striker for the sake of playing someone else?
The one point we would probably agree on is that May should've perhaps been given a run in the team up front when Marquis left, and maybe we would've seen the player that Cheltenham and Charlton have seen. But any comparison to Marquis, or any feeling that Marquis should've made way for May before he left the club, I really don't understand.
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
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Pib, why have you changed the goalposts regarding former players who have a better scoring rate than Marquis? You originally said in Rovers history, now you say in the last 20 years!
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I, along with others on this forum claimed that May had a special talent that wasn't exploited enough when he was with us. The fact that we were right proves we weren't the ones who were deceived.
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I think it was obvious that he deserved to be kept here rather than shipped out.
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Pib, why have you changed the goalposts regarding former players who have a better scoring rate than Marquis? You originally said in Rovers history, now you say in the last 20 years!
I haven't BB. You're welcome to name any you like. You named Billy Sharp. I threw Paul Barnes into the mix, that covers the last 20-21 years. Feel free to offer up the many others who have scored as consistently for us in our history. If there are as many as you say, then I'm sure you can change my mind to your reasoning that it is "par for the course" for strikers who start consistently to score at a rate of around 1 in 2 over multiple seasons for us.
All the while continue to ignore the other points I have made and questions I have asked.
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Pib, why have you changed the goalposts regarding former players who have a better scoring rate than Marquis? You originally said in Rovers history, now you say in the last 20 years!
I haven't BB. You're welcome to name any you like. You named Billy Sharp. I threw Paul Barnes into the mix, that covers the last 20-21 years. Feel free to offer up the many others who have scored as consistently for us in our history. If there are as many as you say, then I'm sure you can change my mind to your reasoning that it is "par for the course" for strikers who start consistently to score at a rate of around 1 in 2 over multiple seasons for us.
All the while continue to ignore the other points I have made and questions I have asked.
Tom Keetley
Colin Booth
Alick Jeffrey
Peter Doherty
Clarrie Jordan
Laurie Sheffield
Tony Leighton
Reg Baines
Paul Barnes
Billy Sharp
What other points have you asked? I must have missed them.
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OK BB, I stand corrected. You can count on two hands the number of strikers Rovers have had in their history that scored at a rate as consistent as Marquis, not one hand.
I would still say that 10 players in the last century is a long way away from it being "par for the course for most strikers" who started games consistently.
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Pib, why have you changed the goalposts regarding former players who have a better scoring rate than Marquis? You originally said in Rovers history, now you say in the last 20 years!
I haven't BB. You're welcome to name any you like. You named Billy Sharp. I threw Paul Barnes into the mix, that covers the last 20-21 years. Feel free to offer up the many others who have scored as consistently for us in our history. If there are as many as you say, then I'm sure you can change my mind to your reasoning that it is "par for the course" for strikers who start consistently to score at a rate of around 1 in 2 over multiple seasons for us.
All the while continue to ignore the other points I have made and questions I have asked.
Tom Keetley
Colin Booth
Alick Jeffrey
Peter Doherty
Clarrie Jordan
Laurie Sheffield
Tony Leighton
Reg Baines
Paul Barnes
Billy Sharp
What other points have you asked? I must have missed them.
I'll copy them below for you BB.
Why would any manager drop a player producing the numbers and performances that he (JM) did, regardless of whether that would've worked in favour of May, Williams, Mandeville or anyone else?
Since JM left the club in 2019, why have none of our strikers since scored 20+ goals a season, if it's so par-for-the-course?
Is it that difficult to hold multiple ideas concurrently, that maybe both of them are good players, and that perhaps one of them was just unlucky to join the club at a time where we already had a main striker in fantastic form? Does one's achievements since leaving need to detract from the other's at DRFC?
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I, along with others on this forum claimed that May had a special talent that wasn't exploited enough when he was with us. The fact that we were right proves we weren't the ones who were deceived.
I was another who rated Alfie very highly.
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I may be wrong here, but didn’t we go something like 30 years without a striker getting 20+ league goals in a season, from Peter Kitchen in the mid seventies to Barnes or Blundell in 2004/5 ish?
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I may be wrong here, but didn’t we go something like 30 years without a striker getting 20+ league goals in a season, from Peter Kitchen in the mid seventies to Barnes or Blundell in 2004/5 ish?
I think Colin Cramb in 96/97 was first player for 20 years to score 20 goals (18 were league) in a season. It was very slim pickings for a very long time.
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I may be wrong here, but didn’t we go something like 30 years without a striker getting 20+ league goals in a season, from Peter Kitchen in the mid seventies to Barnes or Blundell in 2004/5 ish?
Paul Barnes scored 25 league goals in 2002/3.
Blundell scored 18 league goals in 2003/4, and 2 in the League Cup (47 appearances in all competitions). His overall record with us was 32 goals from 96 appearances (1 in 3).
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Pib, why have you changed the goalposts regarding former players who have a better scoring rate than Marquis? You originally said in Rovers history, now you say in the last 20 years!
I haven't BB. You're welcome to name any you like. You named Billy Sharp. I threw Paul Barnes into the mix, that covers the last 20-21 years. Feel free to offer up the many others who have scored as consistently for us in our history. If there are as many as you say, then I'm sure you can change my mind to your reasoning that it is "par for the course" for strikers who start consistently to score at a rate of around 1 in 2 over multiple seasons for us.
All the while continue to ignore the other points I have made and questions I have asked.
Tom Keetley
Colin Booth
Alick Jeffrey
Peter Doherty
Clarrie Jordan
Laurie Sheffield
Tony Leighton
Reg Baines
Paul Barnes
Billy Sharp
What other points have you asked? I must have missed them.
I'll copy them below for you BB.
Why would any manager drop a player producing the numbers and performances that he (JM) did, regardless of whether that would've worked in favour of May, Williams, Mandeville or anyone else?
Since JM left the club in 2019, why have none of our strikers since scored 20+ goals a season, if it's so par-for-the-course?
Is it that difficult to hold multiple ideas concurrently, that maybe both of them are good players, and that perhaps one of them was just unlucky to join the club at a time where we already had a main striker in fantastic form? Does one's achievements since leaving need to detract from the other's at DRFC?
I never suggested he should be dropped. I stated the fact that he had a massive advantage over the other strikers because he was virtually immune to being dropped or subbed. No other player playing alongside him was allowed such privilege.
Marquis played in a side with a midfield with a mindset of creating chances, and they did so by the bucket load. Marquis could afford to miss many a sitter and still score enough to make him prolific. We haven't had a side capable of creating so many chances since.
I've never said Marquis wasn't a good player. I didn't particularly like his attitude towards other fringe players like May, because he appeared to be a bit of a bully, and I don't think he went out of his way to help them either.
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I bumped into Alfie in a bar after the Grimsby game when we had clinched promotion, we chatted for a while and I told him then "you're going to be a good un" he was very polite and friendly shook my hand and sat down with his lady friend. As I was leaving he stood and waved, a very likeable young man.
I stand by what I said to him then.
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I think it was obvious that he deserved to be kept here rather than shipped out.
After he was "shipped out" we went on to have one of the very best 12 month runs of league results in our entire history, at the top end of L1. A 12 months in which May scored a grand total of 9 League goals in L2.
Fascinating how many folk on here ignore plain facts when jumping to conclusions.
He was a grand lad and I'm chuffed to bits for him that he turned into such a good un. Isn't that enough?
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I think it was obvious that he deserved to be kept here rather than shipped out.
These are two different points.
Did he deserve to be kept rather than shipped out? He had a great attitude and a lot of fans liked him for that, so he probably did deserve to stay.
Did he show anything in his limited opportunities with us under three managers to show he would have gone on to be the success he has? No, of course he didn’t. The lad didn’t have the chance to do this as a central striker and was played literally everywhere but there. So it’s fantasy for people to say they knew they could see he would be 20+ goal League One striker.
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In how many starts Billy?
Played out wide?
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I may be wrong here, but didn’t we go something like 30 years without a striker getting 20+ league goals in a season, from Peter Kitchen in the mid seventies to Barnes or Blundell in 2004/5 ish?
I think Colin Cramb in 96/97 was first player for 20 years to score 20 goals (18 were league) in a season. It was very slim pickings for a very long time.
Cheers CBcb, forgot about super Colin Cramb. Crikey, yes 20 years is some wait
Thank you pib for the stats too.
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Pib, why have you changed the goalposts regarding former players who have a better scoring rate than Marquis? You originally said in Rovers history, now you say in the last 20 years!
I haven't BB. You're welcome to name any you like. You named Billy Sharp. I threw Paul Barnes into the mix, that covers the last 20-21 years. Feel free to offer up the many others who have scored as consistently for us in our history. If there are as many as you say, then I'm sure you can change my mind to your reasoning that it is "par for the course" for strikers who start consistently to score at a rate of around 1 in 2 over multiple seasons for us.
All the while continue to ignore the other points I have made and questions I have asked.
Tom Keetley
Colin Booth
Alick Jeffrey
Peter Doherty
Clarrie Jordan
Laurie Sheffield
Tony Leighton
Reg Baines
Paul Barnes
Billy Sharp
What other points have you asked? I must have missed them.
I'll copy them below for you BB.
Why would any manager drop a player producing the numbers and performances that he (JM) did, regardless of whether that would've worked in favour of May, Williams, Mandeville or anyone else?
Since JM left the club in 2019, why have none of our strikers since scored 20+ goals a season, if it's so par-for-the-course?
Is it that difficult to hold multiple ideas concurrently, that maybe both of them are good players, and that perhaps one of them was just unlucky to join the club at a time where we already had a main striker in fantastic form? Does one's achievements since leaving need to detract from the other's at DRFC?
I never suggested he should be dropped. I stated the fact that he had a massive advantage over the other strikers because he was virtually immune to being dropped or subbed. No other player playing alongside him was allowed such privilege.
Marquis played in a side with a midfield with a mindset of creating chances, and they did so by the bucket load. Marquis could afford to miss many a sitter and still score enough to make him prolific. We haven't had a side capable of creating so many chances since.
I've never said Marquis wasn't a good player. I didn't particularly like his attitude towards other fringe players like May, because he appeared to be a bit of a bully, and I don't think he went out of his way to help them either.
JM was only subbed off once in his time with us, at Gillingham with just a few minutes to go.
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I think it was obvious that he deserved to be kept here rather than shipped out.
These are two different points.
Did he deserve to be kept rather than shipped out? He had a great attitude and a lot of fans liked him for that, so he probably did deserve to stay.
Did he show anything in his limited opportunities with us under three managers to show he would have gone on to be the success he has? No, of course he didn’t. The lad didn’t have the chance to do this as a central striker and was played literally everywhere but there. So it’s fantasy for people to say they knew they could see he would be 20+ goal League One striker.
Yes, he did show something in his limited opportunities with us. He showed how clinical he could be playing in the middle when he scored 4 goals against Chorley in 2018.
https://youtu.be/E6M80goezH4?si=NUKSUGt0KJ2k7_Bm
.... And here's a few more... https://youtu.be/M6rTznX7K-E?si=SBLC8k7Eb5ZD7ozb
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I, along with others on this forum claimed that May had a special talent that wasn't exploited enough when he was with us. The fact that we were right proves we weren't the ones who were deceived.
Thanks BB I totally agree, as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We are now told that we were deceiving ourselves, what an arrogant statement. The fact is that you and I have watched a lot of football and gained a wealth of information. We were right.
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
9 in 13 league games before tonight. Good on him.
Now 11 in 14 league games.
Are the Dingles playing Watters in a different role? His scoring rate has dropped right off. 4 in 32 last season and 2 in 17 this season. He’s on exactly same rate of 1 in 8 these days.
I think everyone is playing a different role this season Chris , Collins wants to play more possession type football and prefers to play with a single strike generally Devante Cole and a ten just behind in McAtee .
Watters hasn't really had a run of games in my opinion and whilst he does work hard it's not really happened for him .
His first touch isn't the best and his hold up play isn't that great either , that's not going to win you starts with a HC who wants to play possession football when you are continually giving the ball away .
I'm not a Collins fan to be honest and he's making harder work of this league than it needs to be .
Duff got it up to the strikers quickly and the midfield pressed with lots of crosses coming in , I think Duff had it right for league one last season .
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What a strange and totally unnecessary debate. Was Marquis good? Absolutely. Has he been replaced by anyone as good? No, not even anywhere near.
Did Alfie show enough potential to be kept on? Absolutely, especially when the manager who let him go then filled the team with loans.
There's no argument to be had here.
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
9 in 13 league games before tonight. Good on him.
Now 11 in 14 league games.
Are the Dingles playing Watters in a different role? His scoring rate has dropped right off. 4 in 32 last season and 2 in 17 this season. He’s on exactly same rate of 1 in 8 these days.
I think everyone is playing a different role this season Chris , Collins wants to play more possession type football and prefers to play with a single strike generally Devante Cole and a ten just behind in McAtee .
Watters hasn't really had a run of games in my opinion and whilst he does work hard it's not really happened for him .
His first touch isn't the best and his hold up play isn't that great either , that's not going to win you starts with a HC who wants to play possession football when you are continually giving the ball away .
I'm not a Collins fan to be honest and he's making harder work of this league than it needs to be .
Duff got it up to the strikers quickly and the midfield pressed with lots of crosses coming in , I think Duff had it right for league one last season .
I like Duff. He's got a good eye for talent and knows a good prospect when he sees one.
That's a very useful skill to have and one that separates the men from the boys in the football world.
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I think it was obvious that he deserved to be kept here rather than shipped out.
These are two different points.
Did he deserve to be kept rather than shipped out? He had a great attitude and a lot of fans liked him for that, so he probably did deserve to stay.
Did he show anything in his limited opportunities with us under three managers to show he would have gone on to be the success he has? No, of course he didn’t. The lad didn’t have the chance to do this as a central striker and was played literally everywhere but there. So it’s fantasy for people to say they knew they could see he would be 20+ goal League One striker.
I think he showed plenty of potential in the time with us.
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Anyone who claims that they saw from the limited opportunities that May was given, a player who would turn into what he has, is clearly deceiving themselves.
I think it was obvious that he deserved to be kept here rather than shipped out.
After he was "shipped out" we went on to have one of the very best 12 month runs of league results in our entire history, at the top end of L1. A 12 months in which May scored a grand total of 9 League goals in L2.
Fascinating how many folk on here ignore plain facts when jumping to conclusions.
He was a grand lad and I'm chuffed to bits for him that he turned into such a good un. Isn't that enough?
They may be facts but they have very little to do with the discussion.
Moore got rid of experience for a load of very talented loan players.
Which was only going to leave us in a mess at some point.
May showed enough to be not shipped out without being given a chance by Moore
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
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No one apart from Marquis has scored over 20 goals a season for 3 consecutive seasons since Keetley and he was pre 2nd world war.
I don’t think even King Alick did that. If I am wrong I am sure someone will tel me.
The fact is Alfie May never got a sustained run in the team so maybe his potential never came to fruition at Rovers.
Personally he never looked to me like he would be a prolific goal scorer at League 1 level.
His work rate cannot be faulted but he looked as though he had limitations in his game.
Sometimes players flourish when they move to another Club and that’s what happened to Alfie at Cheltenham Town.
There is a long history of players not achieving at one club but then achieving great things at another club.
The obsession with looking at what might have been with former players doesn’t benefit anyone. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The past is gone, what’s important is the present and the future.
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Campsall, your claim that May never got a sustained run in the team so therefore his potential never came to fruition is the whole point of the discussion. The fact that after he left some proper shite was brought in that wasn't fit to lace his boots rubbed salt into the wounds of those of us who saw May flourish while with Rovers, despite the reluctance to give him a decent run.
The argument is that some of us, even with the advantage of hindsight, still refuse to accept that Darren Moore dropped a bollock by releasing him, and dropped another by letting him go for peanuts.
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Campsall, your claim that May never got a sustained run in the team so therefore his potential never came to fruition is the whole point of the discussion. The fact that after he left some proper shite was brought in that wasn't fit to lace his boots rubbed salt into the wounds of those of us who saw May flourish while with Rovers, despite the reluctance to give him a decent run.
The argument is that some of us, even with the advantage of hindsight, still refuse to accept that Darren Moore dropped a bollock by releasing him, and dropped another by letting him go for peanuts.
Don’t disagree with you.
Not only did he let Alfie go he released Watters who quite obviously had potential.
Crawley got a million pounds for him 18 months later.
Yes if Alfie had been replaced with better then fair enough but he wasn’t.
But be honest BB could you have envisaged that he would score over 20 goals in a season in League 1
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Campsall, if May had been given a decent run in the team, in his right position and without the prospect of being made the scapegoat and subbed regularly I believed then, and still believe that he would have scored regularly for Rovers, and 20 goals plus would not have been in the realms of impossibility.
..... And hindsight has proved me right.
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
Forgive me Billy my memory is not what it used to be, who was the experienced striker Moore signed on a permanent?
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Anyone who saw anything in Alfie May during his time with us has a better footballing eye than me! I just saw a kid who game 100% but was lacking in quality. I remember one game in particular when he came on as a sub during the second half to rapturous applause from the Rovers fans and then spent 30 minutes chasing shadows and looked so out of his depth that I actually felt sorry for the kid. To be fair, he ran himself into the ground, ( but I could do that in those days!!) but barely got near the ball never mind touched it.
Over time I felt that he was almost trying too hard in some games but I don’t recall any significant improvements in quality.
Full credit to him for what he’s achieved after leaving Rovers though. He’s proved that he’s a decent player at that level and I’m delighted for him.
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Not everyone has a sharp eye for a good prospect, Herbert, and it's commendable of you to concede that those who saw something in May have a better footballing eye than you.
I agree that May sometimes looked like he was trying too hard to make an impression and that wasn't helped by the fact that he was probably well aware that he was going to be replaced sooner or later in the game.
Regarding his quality, have you watched the videos of his goals higher up in the thread?
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Not everyone has a sharp eye for a good prospect, Herbert, and it's commendable of you to concede that those who saw something in May have a better footballing eye than you.
I agree that May sometimes looked like he was trying too hard to make an impression and that wasn't helped by the fact that he was probably well aware that he was going to be replaced sooner or later in the game.
Regarding his quality, have you watched the videos of his goals higher up in the thread?
I have seen the clips BB and there’s some very well taken goals in there. My judgement is based on the games that I saw him play in (admittedly probably not as many games as you or lots of other people on here) and I often saw a player who seemed to be struggling. There could be a variety of reasons for this; lack of talent, poor coaching, lack of clarity from his manager etc… but it’s a fact from what I saw of him. I wasn’t surprised when he left us but I’m delighted that he’s gone in to have a rewarding career.
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https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-rovers-grant-mccann-hails-brilliant-alfie-may-after-fa-cup-demolitiona-against-chorley-44009
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https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-gary-mcsheffrey-hoping-alfie-may-has-an-off-day-on-saturday-3596136
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What a strange and totally unnecessary debate. Was Marquis good? Absolutely. Has he been replaced by anyone as good? No, not even anywhere near.
Did Alfie show enough potential to be kept on? Absolutely, especially when the manager who let him go then filled the team with loans.
There's no argument to be had here.
To be honest my initial grumble was that Moore didn’t have a clue, he didn’t recognise Alfie May’s potential my other point was that Marquis was in my opinion overrated, 2 million, Championship player and all that, his performance after leaving Rovers proved this. I haven’t looked at Marquis’s recent appearances or scoring rate but I have been aware of Alfie’s. I’ll state it again “Moore didn’t have a clue”.
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
Forgive me Billy my memory is not what it used to be, who was the experienced striker Moore signed on a permanent?
Okhenabirie?
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Anyone who saw anything in Alfie May during his time with us has a better footballing eye than me! I just saw a kid who game 100% but was lacking in quality. I remember one game in particular when he came on as a sub during the second half to rapturous applause from the Rovers fans and then spent 30 minutes chasing shadows and looked so out of his depth that I actually felt sorry for the kid. To be fair, he ran himself into the ground, ( but I could do that in those days!!) but barely got near the ball never mind touched it.
Over time I felt that he was almost trying too hard in some games but I don’t recall any significant improvements in quality.
Full credit to him for what he’s achieved after leaving Rovers though. He’s proved that he’s a decent player at that level and I’m delighted for him.
Exactly what I saw HA. I would groan if the lovely Alfie came on. He looked miles off Marquis. He could bag goals against lower teams, but seemed to struggle at Lg1. I remember him chasing balls that bounced over his head and running around enthusiastically.
I think a lot of credit needs to go to the Cheltenham Management and coaching team which clearly were a million miles better than ours at the time he was let go.
Those who predicted he would go on to achieve what he has should get into scouting or do the lottery and I take my hat off to you.
I’m chuffed for him though, I remember at Bristol Rovers he was warming up in front of the travelling Rovers fans down the side and he needed a pee so he hopped over the side wall and nipped into the away supporter’s toilet on the back of the terrace, can just see Kane doing that.
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Campsall, your claim that May never got a sustained run in the team so therefore his potential never came to fruition is the whole point of the discussion. The fact that after he left some proper shite was brought in that wasn't fit to lace his boots rubbed salt into the wounds of those of us who saw May flourish while with Rovers, despite the reluctance to give him a decent run.
The argument is that some of us, even with the advantage of hindsight, still refuse to accept that Darren Moore dropped a bollock by releasing him, and dropped another by letting him go for peanuts.
BB.
The FACT is that immediately after he left, we had one of the most productive 12 months in our history.
You don't like that fact but it is a very important one.
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Is it Okhenabirie you were referring to Billy?
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If I am not mistaken JM's scoring.record was nothing special until he came to us. So we should not be too shocked by history repeating itself when 1 of our players moves on. Ferguson brought Alfie in from non league where he was prolific, it was a bit of a punt at the time.
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BST. So you're saying Rovers went on a good run because May left, and they wouldn't have done had May stayed?
It is also a fact that In the 13 remaining games after May left before Covid finished the season, The team achieved just one more point than they did in the 13 games played before May left.
Oh, and May scored more goals for Rovers that season than his 'far more prolific' replacement did!
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BST. So you're saying Rovers went on a good run because May left, and they wouldn't have done had May stayed?
It is also a fact that In the 13 remaining games after May left before Covid finished the season, The team achieved just one more point than they did in the 13 games played before May left.
Oh, and May scored more goals for Rovers that season than his 'far more prolific' replacement did!
I see you're struggling with facts as ever BB.
1) We played 18 league games that season after May left.
2) In those 18 games we won 30 points (1.67 PPG). In the 15 games May had participated in that season, we won 24 points (1.60 PPG).
3) May scored 3 goals for us that season, in 23 appearances. 1 goal in the league. 2 in the Paint Pot Trophy. Okenabirhie scored 2 league goals in 5 appearances.
And no, I'm not saying we went on one of our best ever runs of 12 months form BECAUSE May left. That would be stupidly simplistic. I'm saying that May leaving did not prevent us from going on one of the best ever runs in our history. Because, at the time, he simply wasn't that much of a loss.
The lad had clearly come on in leaps and bounds since and I'm chuffed for him.
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BST, we played 13 league games after May left. W7 D2 L4 = 23 points.
In the last 13 games before May left we W4 D4 L5 = 16 points, so my mistake there.
the 'far more prolific' Okenabirhie scored 2 goals that season (one less than May). and only managed 11 the following season, and that was as a striker, a role that May rarely got with us.
We might well have gone on a great run after May left, but it was hardly because May left, and certainly hardly because Okenabirhie replaced him!
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Correction from me. We played 18 games after May played his last game for us.
Your comment on goals scored in 19/20 is wilfully stupid.
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BST, we played 13 league games after May left. W7 D2 L4 = 23 points.
In the last 13 games before May left we W4 D4 L5 = 16 points, so my mistake there.
the 'far more prolific' Okenabirhie scored 2 goals that season (one less than May). and only managed 11 the following season, and that was as a striker, a role that May rarely got with us.
We might well have gone on a great run after May left, but it was hardly because May left, and certainly hardly because Okenabirhie replaced him!
In fairness to you, the 13 game thing is not a fair assessment of the May effect, not least because he didn't play in 5 of the 13 games before he left.
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For much of the time May was with us we had better players than him up front and wide, he was the make up player to Blair, Williams, and Marquis.
And we had a better all round team, that is why he was the odd one out in the managers eye.
He has done well since leaving us, but played in better sides than what we have had over the last three years.
If he had stayed here hands up anyone who thinks he would have done as well, the best thing that could happen to him was leaving as he would have gone down the sink hole all the rest have.
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Correction from me. We played 18 games after May played his last game for us.
Your comment on goals scored in 19/20 is wilfully stupid.
And here we go with the insults!
The fact is, May left us and we went on a downward spiral into League 2. Meanwhile, the League 2 team he joined went the other way and swapped places with us. Now, May is far too big a player for the likes of us, and I'm glad because supporters like you don't deserve such a player.
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Correction from me. We played 18 games after May played his last game for us.
Your comment on goals scored in 19/20 is wilfully stupid.
And here we go with the insults!
The fact is, May left us and we went on a downward spiral into League 2. Meanwhile, the League 2 team he joined went the other way and swapped places with us. Now, May is far too big a player for the likes of us, and I'm glad because supporters like you don't deserve such a player.
It's not an insult. It's an observation.
You are suggesting that a return of 3 goals, (2 of them in the Paint Pot Trophy) from 23 appearances tops a return of 2 league goals from 5 appearances.
It's absolutely not an insult to call that wilful stupidity. It's an observation of fact.
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Correction from me. We played 18 games after May played his last game for us.
Your comment on goals scored in 19/20 is wilfully stupid.
And here we go with the insults!
The fact is, May left us and we went on a downward spiral into League 2. Meanwhile, the League 2 team he joined went the other way and swapped places with us. Now, May is far too big a player for the likes of us, and I'm glad because supporters like you don't deserve such a player.
Its game set and match for us BB. Since leaving us Alfie as scored 0.44 goals per match Golden Boy as scored 0.27 goals per match. I don't understand this "what happened after Alfie's departure". To anyone who has played the game or understands the game it was very evident that Alfie's confidence was growing but Moore couldn't see it.
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Correction from me. We played 18 games after May played his last game for us.
Your comment on goals scored in 19/20 is wilfully stupid.
And here we go with the insults!
The fact is, May left us and we went on a downward spiral into League 2. Meanwhile, the League 2 team he joined went the other way and swapped places with us. Now, May is far too big a player for the likes of us, and I'm glad because supporters like you don't deserve such a player.
Its game set and match for us BB. Since leaving us Alfie as scored 0.44 goals per match Golden Boy as scored 0.27 goals per match. I don't understand this "what happened after Alfie's departure". To anyone who has played the game or understands the game it was very evident that Alfie's confidence was growing but Moore couldn't see it.
Those are the kind of facts that BST won't consider while he is on one of his biased, one-sided agendas.
If the truth were known, his view that it was the correct thing to do to get rid of May is all down to his special love-in with Darren Moore, and his defence of him is rather unhealthy.
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Really not worth falling out over- we’re all agreed that it’s great to see Alfie doing so well
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Really not worth falling out over- we’re all agreed that it’s great to see Alfie doing so well
Hahahahahahahaha! You're talking BST here! He constantly trolls the forum(s) to see who he can argue with. He is worse than a fart, at least the smell eventually goes away.
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We’ve got Ironside, Faal and Miller to come back now, I’m more than happy with that!
Good luck to Alfie and Omar!
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
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Exf**kingzactly
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
Moore isn’t a good manager? He seems to do alright for not a good manger, nearly stayed up in the Prem with West Brom and got sack while they were in 4th in the Champ, got poached by Wednesday while he was with us, then gets them promoted before getting the boot. Probably relatively a better success rate than 90% of managers. Yeah his football wasn’t great but apart from watching Rovers under O’Driscoll, good football in the FL is quite scarce.
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
McCann picked him for 8 starts in 2018/19.
What's your conclusion on McCann's managerial ability?
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
McCann picked him for 8 starts in 2018/19.
What's your conclusion on McCann's managerial ability?
Here's what McCann's thoughts on May were....
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-rovers-grant-mccann-hails-brilliant-alfie-may-after-fa-cup-demolitiona-against-chorley-44009
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I can see the argument you are trying to put forward, but it doesn’t help if your evidence base is largely / exclusively a FA Cup performance against Chorley.
The point is perhaps whether anyone could have foreseen he would have gone on to be such a prolific striker at League One level.
Which given the absence of evidence of this with us - largely as the lad wasn’t given the opportunities in League One - is patently not true.
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The point is also whether people could have foreseen he WASN'T capable of going on to be such a prolific striker at League One level. A few people on this forum said that he wasn't, and they were proved wrong. Those who said he WAS capable of being prolific at League One level were proved right.
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This is probably the most pointless argument I have ever witnessed on this forum.
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This is probably the most pointless argument I have ever witnessed on this forum.
Totally agree! And that’s exactly why I continually find myself drawn back to it against my better judgement! :lol:
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The point is also whether people could have foreseen he WASN'T capable of going on to be such a prolific striker at League One level. A few people on this forum said that he wasn't, and they were proved wrong. Those who said he WAS capable of being prolific at League One level were proved right.
But that is guesswork? He had scored a total of 7 goals at League One level in all his time for us. Nobody could have foreseen he would be rattling them in at that level with other clubs.
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Paint Pot trophy games don't count as they aren't first team fixtures. Hence why Tommy Rowe could play whilst suspended.
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This is probably the most pointless argument I have ever witnessed on this forum.
Believe me we have had worse.
I have got involved in some of them myself. :crying:
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
McCann picked him for 8 starts in 2018/19.
What's your conclusion on McCann's managerial ability?
Not playing a young inexperienced player every week is certainly not the same as getting rid of them if that’s the point you’re attempting to make
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Paint Pot trophy games don't count as they aren't first team fixtures. Hence why Tommy Rowe could play whilst suspended.
If you're talking about Alfie's 4 goals against Chorley, that was the FA Cup.
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
McCann picked him for 8 starts in 2018/19.
What's your conclusion on McCann's managerial ability?
Not playing a young inexperienced player every week is certainly not the same as getting rid of them if that’s the point you’re attempting to make
By the end of the 18/19 season, May was days away from his 26th birthday and had made 94 appearances for us.
Next?
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
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You're doing it again Dickos. Ignoring facts when making your case.
Within a couple of weeks of selling May, Moore made a permanent signing at centre forward who had, and did score goals at L1 level at a rate much above anything May had shown up to then.
And it wasn't just Moore who didn't "give a chance" to May. The lad had been available nearly all of the playoff season under McCann and made 8 starts.
He was 23 when we signed him,
How many league one goals had Marquis scored at 23 or James hayter.
Suggesting a player is no good because he hasn’t ripped up any trees at 23 is ridiculous.
A good manager would’ve seen the potential, Moore isn’t a good manager
McCann picked him for 8 starts in 2018/19.
What's your conclusion on McCann's managerial ability?
Not playing a young inexperienced player every week is certainly not the same as getting rid of them if that’s the point you’re attempting to make
By the end of the 18/19 season, May was days away from his 26th birthday and had made 94 appearances for us.
Next?
Put it this way, there would’ve been no way mccann would’ve let Marquis and May leave.
May didn’t get his chances because of Marquis, I remember him playing against palace and he was outstanding.
To get rid of him like we did was scandalous
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May was/is a terrific person to have around any football club. Putting aside the fact that he is also a very good player, Moore cared not one jot about that.
Moore has an arrogance and a belief in himself that simply is not matched with ability. He’ll probably get a few more, short term managerial posts before becoming a more regular pundit for a bit.
Though he’s crap at that too.
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From my perspective Alfie always seemed to give 100% but a lot of the time looked like he was running around like a headless chicken.
The fact he’s gone on to be a good player makes it look in hindsight like we dropped a clanger letting him go, but obviously if he’d played for us like he plays now we wouldn’t have got rid. Just one of those things.
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Cheltenham played him as an out and out striker
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In terms of goals per game Marquis was the best goalscorer we've had since Billy Sharp in a division or 2 higher.
Thanks to his superb fitness record Marquis was the most consistent goals per season goalscorer we've had across multiple seasons since Peter Kitchen. So in 40 years.
Nobody sensible at the time was urging Rovers to drop Marquis in favour of May or anybody else for that matter.
Like most players who excel at the Rovers Marquis moved on to a bigger club for more money. I don't begrudge him taking that opportunity. Things haven't worked out for him. On his behalf I'm disappointed as he worked very hard in a Rovers shirt.
Once Marquis left there was an opening in the main striker's position at the club. Neither May (nor Watters) was ever going to be given a fair opportunity to fill that role. Anybody who thinks otherwise needs their eyes testing.
When May was inevitably allowed to leave he found a club and manager willing to give him a run in his best position and in a system (2 up front) that suited him.
He's taken the opportunity presented to him superbly and has done fantastically well. As he was another player who worked very hard in a Rovers shirt I'm delighted for him.
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We’ve got Ironside, Faal and Miller to come back now, I’m more than happy with that!
Good luck to Alfie and Omar!
Yes, let’s look forwards.
Ironside is a far better footballer than Bogle.
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We were flush with good forwards when Alfie went. It was disappointing when they let him go because his attitude seemed spot on and he really didn’t get the starts to prove how good he was. Saying that though there is no saying he would have developed the same with us, as he has elsewhere. It disappoints so much because we found a non league gem, but in hindsight, maybe let him go too soon.
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A brace already for May tonight after half an hour.
9 in 13 league games before tonight. Good on him.
Now 11 in 14 league games.
Are the Dingles playing Watters in a different role? His scoring rate has dropped right off. 4 in 32 last season and 2 in 17 this season. He’s on exactly same rate of 1 in 8 these days.
I think everyone is playing a different role this season Chris , Collins wants to play more possession type football and prefers to play with a single strike generally Devante Cole and a ten just behind in McAtee .
Watters hasn't really had a run of games in my opinion and whilst he does work hard it's not really happened for him .
His first touch isn't the best and his hold up play isn't that great either , that's not going to win you starts with a HC who wants to play possession football when you are continually giving the ball away .
I'm not a Collins fan to be honest and he's making harder work of this league than it needs to be .
Duff got it up to the strikers quickly and the midfield pressed with lots of crosses coming in , I think Duff had it right for league one last season .
I like Duff. He's got a good eye for talent and knows a good prospect when he sees one.
That's a very useful skill to have and one that separates the men from the boys in the football world.
Just been sacked by Swansea City.
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I wonder if that means he hasn't got a good eye for talent and doesn't know a good prospect when he sees one.
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
In 17-18 he played 718 minutes up front over 10 games Aug-Oct, starting the majority and scored 1 goal. Over the course of the season he played 1417 minutes up front and scored 4, that's 0.25 goals per 90 which isn't that great. The season previous to that, the season he initially signed for us he started 7 games in a row up front between Feb-Mar and scored 0. Then after Ferguson neither McCann or Moore felt he should be given the opportunity up front.
People on here need to stop acting like any of our previous managers cocked up with him because of how he is now, he's the player he is today because he left us and got first team football up front to develop. This was at a time we were fighting for League One play off spots, we couldn't afford him the time. Even after his move to Cheltenham he carried on with his average scoring record playing and starting up front in League Two, it wasn't until a couple seasons later in League One he started scoring for fun.
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
In 17-18 he played 718 minutes up front over 10 games Aug-Oct, starting the majority and scored 1 goal. Over the course of the season he played 1417 minutes up front and scored 4, that's 0.25 goals per 90 which isn't that great. The season previous to that, the season he initially signed for us he started 7 games in a row up front between Feb-Mar and scored 0. Then after Ferguson neither McCann or Moore felt he should be given the opportunity up front.
People on here need to stop acting like any of our previous managers cocked up with him because of how he is now, he's the player he is today because he left us and got first team football up front to develop. This was at a time we were fighting for League One play off spots, we couldn't afford him the time. Even after his move to Cheltenham he carried on with his average scoring record playing and starting up front in League Two, it wasn't until a couple seasons later in League One he started scoring for fun.
And what position was Alfie played in those games "up front" ?
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If you look at Charlton’s formation it’s 433 Alfie plays off the right of a front 3. This similar what he played when selected for us although is was mainly from the left. The clinical finishing was developed when he was at Cheltenham where he mostly played in a front two when Michael Duff was manager. Now it looks like he can play either up top or right of a front 3 and score. His workrate never changed but taking chances has.
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
In 17-18 he played 718 minutes up front over 10 games Aug-Oct, starting the majority and scored 1 goal. Over the course of the season he played 1417 minutes up front and scored 4, that's 0.25 goals per 90 which isn't that great. The season previous to that, the season he initially signed for us he started 7 games in a row up front between Feb-Mar and scored 0. Then after Ferguson neither McCann or Moore felt he should be given the opportunity up front.
People on here need to stop acting like any of our previous managers cocked up with him because of how he is now, he's the player he is today because he left us and got first team football up front to develop. This was at a time we were fighting for League One play off spots, we couldn't afford him the time. Even after his move to Cheltenham he carried on with his average scoring record playing and starting up front in League Two, it wasn't until a couple seasons later in League One he started scoring for fun.
And what position was Alfie played in those games "up front" ?
What? Striker... Isn't that the definition of up front?
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If you look at Charlton’s formation it’s 433 Alfie plays off the right of a front 3. This similar what he played when selected for us although is was mainly from the left. The clinical finishing was developed when he was at Cheltenham where he mostly played in a front two when Michael Duff was manager. Now it looks like he can play either up top or right of a front 3 and score. His workrate never changed but taking chances has.
Aye. He always created decent chances too based on his xG numbers, he just always underperformed them until the second half of the 21-22 season where something clicked and he became an elite finisher.
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
In 17-18 he played 718 minutes up front over 10 games Aug-Oct, starting the majority and scored 1 goal. Over the course of the season he played 1417 minutes up front and scored 4, that's 0.25 goals per 90 which isn't that great. The season previous to that, the season he initially signed for us he started 7 games in a row up front between Feb-Mar and scored 0. Then after Ferguson neither McCann or Moore felt he should be given the opportunity up front.
People on here need to stop acting like any of our previous managers cocked up with him because of how he is now, he's the player he is today because he left us and got first team football up front to develop. This was at a time we were fighting for League One play off spots, we couldn't afford him the time. Even after his move to Cheltenham he carried on with his average scoring record playing and starting up front in League Two, it wasn't until a couple seasons later in League One he started scoring for fun.
And what position was Alfie played in those games "up front" ?
What? Striker... Isn't that the definition of up front?
Striker! When did Alfie play as a striker, he was always wide left and had to play more like a wing back
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No one said May was prolific while at Rovers, but some of us said that given a fair run of full 90-minute games, he had the potential to be a very good player.
And they were right.
In 17-18 he played 718 minutes up front over 10 games Aug-Oct, starting the majority and scored 1 goal. Over the course of the season he played 1417 minutes up front and scored 4, that's 0.25 goals per 90 which isn't that great. The season previous to that, the season he initially signed for us he started 7 games in a row up front between Feb-Mar and scored 0. Then after Ferguson neither McCann or Moore felt he should be given the opportunity up front.
People on here need to stop acting like any of our previous managers cocked up with him because of how he is now, he's the player he is today because he left us and got first team football up front to develop. This was at a time we were fighting for League One play off spots, we couldn't afford him the time. Even after his move to Cheltenham he carried on with his average scoring record playing and starting up front in League Two, it wasn't until a couple seasons later in League One he started scoring for fun.
And what position was Alfie played in those games "up front" ?
What? Striker... Isn't that the definition of up front?
Striker! When did Alfie play as a striker, he was always wide left and had to play more like a wing back
Read my initial post.
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All Strikers are forwards but not all forwards are Strikers.
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What a difference a May makes
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He’s put Charlton 1-0 up, at Reading, in the EFL Cup game, tonight.
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Ironside scored for Doncaster Rovers again last night, why did Cambridge let him go?
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He’s put Charlton 1-0 up, at Reading, in the EFL Cup game, tonight.
And then missed a pelanty
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He’s put Charlton 1-0 up, at Reading, in the EFL Cup game, tonight.
And then missed a pelanty
like Sir John Marquis he is not someone I would have taking penalties -- but like General Ironside (who hasn't missed for us yet - as the ball goes in off the crossbar) he did "seem" to have scored a few 4+ recently ?
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I always thought that Alfie was a good pen taker.
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He had a 100pc record for us, scoring the only penalty he ever took (home to Grimsby Town in EFL Trophy in October 2018). His overall career record is 7 scored and 1 missed.
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He had a 100pc record for us, scoring the only penalty he ever took (home to Grimsby Town in EFL Trophy in October 2018). His overall career record is 7 scored and 1 missed.
So better than average then, outside of the top players in the world of course
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May developed because he was played in his best position when he left us. Confidence was shown in him. At the time we had one of the top strikers around at the time. He just couldn’t get the games he needed. Unfortunately it was another clubs gain that they could give him the games we couldn’t.
We gave him an opportunity by signing him and his career has only improved since that happened. I would love us to be looking at these type of players now. We don’t have massive funding, there are players in non league worth giving a chance.
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Most goals scored in 2023 (top 4 tiers):
30: Alfie May
29: Erling Haaland
25: Andy Cook
24: Mohamed Salah, Conor Chaplin, David McGoldrick
23: Dion Charles
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Most goals scored in 2023 (top 4 tiers):
30: Alfie May
29: Erling Haaland
25: Andy Cook
24: Mohamed Salah, Conor Chaplin, David McGoldrick
23: Dion Charles
Those lists infuriate me for some reason. Like Billy Sharp being the top Championship scorer ever. Weird accolades I think.
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Celebrating the hardest thing to do in football-score goals.