Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: tommy toes on May 16, 2023, 11:17:33 pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295
We won't have to bother producing electric cars or batteries then.
Hurrah for Brexit.
Good job we took back control.
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If only someone had known what the post-Brexit origin rules were going to be and told everybody before the referendum without getting told they knew nothing about it...!
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.... AND that everything the Remainers said was to be regarded as "Project FEAR"
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Heard a bloke on the radio saying if this is not sorted out by eliminating the 10% tariff, then car production in this country will cease with the loss of 800,000 jobs.
Brexit eh?
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They will be made in China anyway, and we want to concentrate on Hydrogen.
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They will be made in China anyway, and we want to concentrate on Hydrogen.
Oh that's alright then. Sod the car industry, those losing their jobs can go and pick fruit.
Jesus wept.
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And don't forget, don't make a cheese sandwich if you can't afford the cheese says SS dream lover
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They will be made in China anyway, and we want to concentrate on Hydrogen.
Hydrogen cars will be subject to the exact same origin rules, so they're f**ked too.
But hey, people knew what they were voting for.
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.Glyn. I will bet you anything you want that within ten years the biggest origin of cars sold in Europe will not be made in Europe, but in China or India.
In fact like Volvo there is a good chance that most European car manufactures will be owned by Chinese and Indian companies anyway.
Tata anyone?
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.Glyn. I will bet you anything you want that within ten years the biggest origin of cars sold in Europe will not be made in Europe, but in China or India.
In fact like Volvo there is a good chance that most European car manufactures will be owned by Chinese and Indian companies anyway.
Tata anyone?
Origin has NOTHING to do with the nationality of who owns the company, but the origin of the goods themselves.
And if cars don't comply with the preference origin rules, no matter where they're built, they'll have the full 10% tariff on them. So any cars built in China or India and sold in the EU will have 10% Duty slapped on them just the same as any built in the UK that don't comply with the origin rules enough to be deemed to be of UK origin.
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Selby is right about China and India, massive growth in their lower cost EV models.
The European and US companies are restricted by offering two entirely different technology products, and have over-focussed on the high end, a big mistake if you are playing the long game.
He is completely wrong on Hydrogen.
No-one is serious about hydrogen for cars, battery performs much better on all measures.
Hydrogen might have a role in long distance trucks, but even that is on a long time horizon.
Hydrogen is more promising for use in the steel and cement industries, (maybe shipping), but not as a fuel for personal transport or heating.
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Yes Glyn, but the price differential between products from those countries and the developed economies means that any tariff barrier will be absorbed.
The UK getting into a tariff war with China would have serious implications for the UK economy.
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Those of you worried about the effects of Brexit needn't be. U turn Keith pledged that Labour won't be applying to re-join the EU when he becomes Prime Minister. That means they almost certainly WILL be.
Job's a good 'un.
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By the sounds of it vauxhalls plans involve reducing significantly the British parts in the cars hence the lack of compatibility. Addressing that should be key.
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Yes Glyn, but the price differential between products from those countries and the developed economies means that any tariff barrier will be absorbed.
The UK getting into a tariff war with China would have serious implications for the UK economy.
The UK can't get into a Tariff War with China about this, this is about goods imported into the EU having 10% Duty on them or not. Neither the UK or China can do anything about what they levy by competing against each other. The EU doesn't have a preference agreement with China, the UK does.
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By the sounds of it vauxhalls plans involve reducing significantly the British parts in the cars hence the lack of compatibility. Addressing that should be key.
And that is what the rules of origin are all about. For UK cars to be deemed to be of UK origin, and therefore not attract any Duty when exported to the EU, they can only have a maximum of 45% of the value of the ex-works price be parts of non-UK origin.
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Glyn,
Are we talking about components fully manufactured abroad and simply shipped to destination for assembly, or raw materials brought in to make key components here (like for batteries), or both?
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Glyn,
Are we talking about components fully manufactured abroad and simply shipped to destination for assembly, or raw materials brought in to make key components here (like for batteries), or both?
If it's of non-UK origin, whether imported raw materials or manufactured components, you cannot have the value of them be more than 45% of the ex-works value of the finished vehicle for that vehicle to be deemed as being of UK origin.
There is an exception, though. If the non-UK elements are of origin of an EU member state, they can be excluded from the 45% rule because in effect when you export the vehicle to the EU, the EU is re-importing goods of their own origin.
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It appears to me that this specific part of the EU-UK trade deal was negotiated in good faith and with the best of mutual intentions i.e. retaining/encouraging the motor industry supply chain in the EU/UK.
It would appear that the negotiators were overly optimistic in the time it would take to get battery factories up and running in the Europe.
This is fixable through renegotiation which again would be to the UK/EU's mutual benefit given manufacturers on both sides of the Channel are lobbying for the same.
Regardless of Brexit, this specific part of the trade deal or the way the EU operates the building of battery plants is crucial to the future of the UK/EU motor industry.
It is not the fault of Brexit, the trade deal or the EU that many European countries' Governments (inc the UK) have been slow in supporting getting these plants off the ground.
In fact the existence of this deal and the deadlines included would appear to provide an additional incentive for European nations to get themselves into gear on the key issue of getting these battery plants up and running quickly.
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It appears to me that this specific part of the EU-UK trade deal was negotiated in good faith and with the best of mutual intentions i.e. retaining/encouraging the motor industry supply chain in the EU/UK.
It would appear that the negotiators were overly optimistic in the time it would take to get battery factories up and running in the Europe.
This is fixable through renegotiation which again would be to the UK/EU's mutual benefit given manufacturers on both sides of the Channel are lobbying for the same.
Regardless of Brexit, this specific part of the trade deal or the way the EU operates the building of battery plants is crucial to the future of the UK/EU motor industry.
It is not the fault of Brexit, the trade deal or the EU that many European countries' Governments (inc the UK) have been slow in supporting getting these plants off the ground.
In fact the existence of this deal and the deadlines included would appear to provide an additional incentive for European nations to get themselves into gear on the key issue of getting these battery plants up and running quickly.
It wasn't negotiated at all. And was never likely to be.
It's exactly the same arrangement the UK had with non-EU countries when were inside the EU. Now we're outside the EU, we're in exactly the same position as any other non-EU who has a Preference Agreement with the EU.
I still cannot understand why anyone thought - or indeed still thinks - we were going to treated any differently to any other non-EU country by the EU once we left.
And because of that, yes it IS because of Brexit that we are in this position. To deny it is to ignore reality yet again.
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This deal is mutual and works both ways. It applies to UK exports to the EU; and EU exports to the UK. It encourages both EU and UK motor manufacturers to source goods from within either the UK/EU.
VDA, the German car industry lobby Group, stated "we must urgently make adjustments to the agreement because Europe's battery industry has not developed fast enough"
i.e. there are 2 faults (1) European Governments (inc UK) not supporting the development of building battery plants quickly enough and (2) the timing of deadlines within the deal being too ambitious - which therefore require changing.
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We're still doing well to even have the agreement as it exists. Most non-EU countries don't have it, including the USA and Japan. We could very easily have been in the same position.
And it is still caused by Brexit. If the UK was still in the Single Market the problem wouldn't exist.
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The key problem is that Europe (again inc UK) is behind the rest of the world in developing battery plants for electric cars.
This is absolutely key to the continuing success of the UK and European motor industries.
That would be the case with or without the UK being in the Single Market.
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Battery manufacturers will locate where their business costs are the lowest, taking into account any additional costs in accessing markets.
I am struggling to see why these companies would choose to base in the UK, in preference to the EU, to serve a relatively small UK market.
Another consideration is Biden's Green Deal, the Inflation Reduction Act.
Central to this is developing USA based industries supplying the sector without dependence upon foreign imports.
The UK is a small economy in comparison to the USA, China and the EU.
An additional premium of 10% to export based manufacturers is a big disincentive to multi national interests investing in the UK sector.
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The 10% only applies if the point of origin rules are not met - which they almost certainly will be once battery plants are up and running in either the UK or EU (the rules allow either).
The UK builds around 900,000 vehicles a year. So there is plenty of incentive for a battery manufacturer to have a base here.
Also batteries are heavy bits of kit and costly to transport. The closer the battery plants are to the vehicle manufacturing plants the better from a low business cost basis.
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It depends what the rule of origin for the batteries is. They'll have a different commodity code to a completed vehicle so the rules of origin coild well be completely different.
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The number of cars built in the UK was 775k in 2022. Down from nearly 1.7m in 2016.
I forget. What happened in 2016?
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All the major players in the battery industry are Asian.
A UK battery sector would need to play alongside the established providers, who have first mover advantage.
To compete with them on volume and price the UK would need an investor at scale, and a contractual commitment by the EV sector to use a UK battery.
With the car industry in decline, what is the likely volume of EV from UK factories which would not draw down the 10% tariff?
Decent article in the Torygraph summarising the difficulties;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/18/brexit-stitch-up-battery-failures-left-britain-car-industry/
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The number of cars built in the UK was 775k in 2022. Down from nearly 1.7m in 2016.
I forget. What happened in 2016?
Germany’s car production was down by more than 2 million in the same period.
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But starting at a production of nearly 6 million cars in 2016.
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The number of cars built in the UK was 775k in 2022. Down from nearly 1.7m in 2016.
I forget. What happened in 2016?
Was it this that saw a big chunk of UK and Turkish production ceasing and moving back to Japan?
"The EU and Japan recently struck a trade deal that eliminates tariffs on car exports between the two entities. It’s understood that now, with no financial penalties for making cars in Japan and exporting them to Europe, the last business case in favour of maintaining HUM has been removed."
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But starting at a production of nearly 6 million cars in 2016.
A huge loss, nonetheless.
Bloody Brexit.
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A reminder from 2018;
https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1056568783400243201
The speaker is Patrick Minford, advisor to the lamented Liz Truss.
What can you say?
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Saw the best description of Brexit benefits
It's like someone says they can give you a penis that will touch the floor, only to find out that they cut your legs off to achieve it
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There are myriad reasons why car production in the UK has fallen since 2016.
If leaving the Single Market was a significant one then you'd expect this fall to have been disproportionately due to a reduction in exports to the EU.
56% of UK manufactured cars were exported to the EU in 2016; 58% of UK manufactured cars were exported to the EU in 2022. So that's a resounding NO to that proposition then.
The record year for manufacturing motor vehicles in the UK was 1972. Which is an incredible statistic given the rise in the number of vehicles on the roads since then and how more frequently people change their cars.
Remind me what happened on 1st January 1973?
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False premise Branton.
There is no justification at all for your assertion: "If leaving the Single Market was a significant one then you'd expect this fall to have been disproportionately due to a reduction in exports to the EU."
In fact, leaving the SM doesn't only affect final sales of finished goods. It also affects supply lines of parts. In the case of the car market, that relies heavily on components being moved across borders. When we were in the SM, we had access to a huge market where those components were made and moved between countries without hinderance.
We've chosen to make it much harder for manufacturers in this country to access that component market.
I know Brexiters don't want to face these facts, but it is a fact that our car industry has been hammered since 2016.
In fairness, most car industries were hit by COVID and that's a part of the problem.
The French and Germans have both seen car production fall by 33% since 2016.
But ours has fallen by 55%.
And our numbers started falling straight after the Brexit vote, whereas those of France and Germany were rising pretty much up until COVID hit.
I do wonder what it will take, how many years of decline it will be before hardcore Brexiters are prepared to admit to themselves what they have done.
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The % of UK made vehicles supplied to export is a measure of the vulnerability of the industry to this change.
Any company facing the loss of well over half of its business, and an equal difficulty in obtaining key components and materials, is looking down the barrel of a gun. This applies to other sectors as well as the auto industry.
Why face these challenges, when a simple EU relocation removes the issue?
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And still you all seem to miss the point on Honda, which is pretty much the bridging gap on those percentages.
Until our whole continent can compete with China we won't manufacture here. But then we won't accept the wages and lifestyle they have so we won't ever be able to.
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Billy
1) You're argument is that additional post-Brexit trading border costs are damaging the UK economy.
So the cost of manufacturing a car in the UK goes up due to increased import costs of parts. This applies equally wherever the car is sold.
But if the car is sold into the EU there are additional (border) costs of selling the car vs pre-Brexit - but no such extra costs for selling the car in the UK or outside the EU.
Therefore my assertion is clearly not a false premise. Arguing otherwise is both illogical and hilarious as you're undermining your own central thesis by doing so.
2) Equally illogical is attributing pre-2020 UK car production declines to leaving the Single Market (PS German motor vehicle manufacturing fell 23% between 2016 and 2019)
3) All that 55% v 33% difference you quote can be wholly attributable to non-Brexit related issues: -
a) Honda pulling out of Europe and shutting their Swindon plant in 2021 (Brexit decidedly not given as a factor by them)
b) Vauxhall winding down production of the Astra at Ellesmere Port - the factory being shut for most of 2022 as it is re-tooled to manufacture electric vans instead (a decision to upgrade securing the plants long term future made after 2016)
c) "The global shortage of semiconductors had a disproportionately adverse impact on Jaguar Land Rover’s production and sales compared to our competitors" as per JLRs President
There is no evidence (to date) that leaving the Single Market has 'hammered' the UK car industry either from manufacturing data or from comparative destination of sales data.
However the evidence is clear that joining the EEC didn't just decimate the UK car industry but, pertinently for the future of car manufacture in the UK even today, totally annihilated British ownership of car manufacturing plants.
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Rejoiners!
It's like Gretel escaping from the witch one arm hacked off for stewing meat and the broiled head of her brother held in the other being enticed to re-enter the cottage on the promise of more gingerbread!
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This may help the situation if confirmed....
Jaguar Land Rover to pick UK over Spain for giant car battery plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65698529
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This may help the situation if confirmed....
Jaguar Land Rover to pick UK over Spain for giant car battery plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65698529
This expected success has not been easily or cheaply won. The government has said that while it does not recognise a figure of £500m in reported subsidies, they concede that it is in the hundreds of millions of pounds.
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This may help the situation if confirmed....
Jaguar Land Rover to pick UK over Spain for giant car battery plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65698529
Sshhh! Not on here.
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Now come on Belton, you know the rules on here, anything negative is because of Brexit and anything positive is nothing to do with Brexit!
Leave them to it like almost everyone else is doing these days!
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Ah, so the government having to bribe a company with hundreds of millions of pounds to build in Britain is a Brexit benefit. I get it now.
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Ah, so the government having to bribe a company with hundreds of millions of pounds to build in Britain is a Brexit benefit. I get it now.
You mean like European countries do?
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Just think of the long term benefits.
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This may help the situation if confirmed....
Jaguar Land Rover to pick UK over Spain for giant car battery plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65698529
Excellent news! With this and the battery plant at Nissan - easily the UKs 2 biggest motor vehicle manufacturers are committing long term to the UK.
As for the price tag to the Government - it's a bargain! And as others have stated not unusual internationally
9,000 people to be employed at the plant adding to the 30,000 current JLR UK employees it will support. So £13k per employee - never mind others employed in the UK in JLRs supply chain.
The Government should recoup this money in taxes fairly quickly
I'd criticised the Government earlier in the thread for not supporting the building of crucial battery plants sooner so credit is therefore due here.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65707206
Must be Brexit!!
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Ah, so the government having to bribe a company with hundreds of millions of pounds to build in Britain is a Brexit benefit. I get it now.
You mean like European countries do?
Ah, so we left Europe so we could be like Europe - that makes sense.
Just as much sense as a government who condem socialism and the state subsidising business- using taxpayers money to subsidise a private business. Foreign owned ones at that.
Hmmm...
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Ah, so the government having to bribe a company with hundreds of millions of pounds to build in Britain is a Brexit benefit. I get it now.
You mean like the Yanks are doing on a humungus scale!
You need to start looking beyond your nose!
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Hey If you going to France by Car fill up in England first you will save on average approximately 45 a litre !
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Ah, so the government having to bribe a company with hundreds of millions of pounds to build in Britain is a Brexit benefit. I get it now.
You mean like the Yanks are doing on a humungus scale!
You need to start looking beyond your nose!
You mean the Brexit pushers were completely wrong about us being stronger and holding all the cards after Brexit, and we still have to resort to bribing companies to come here instead of beating them off with a stick?
At the very least I would have thought the hundreds of millions being given to foreign companies would have been better spent on setting up a British company instead.
Still, people knew what they were voting for.
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You think you could set a UK car company up for millions? Not a prayer.
What Brexit does allow is the UK government more flexibility to make UK specific choices that in some cases wouldn't have happened within the EU, that's exactly the point of Brexit.
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Ah, so the government having to bribe a company with hundreds of millions of pounds to build in Britain is a Brexit benefit. I get it now.
You mean like the Yanks are doing on a humungus scale!
You need to start looking beyond your nose!
You mean the Brexit pushers were completely wrong about us being stronger and holding all the cards after Brexit, and we still have to resort to bribing companies to come here instead of beating them off with a stick?
At the very least I would have thought the hundreds of millions being given to foreign companies would have been better spent on setting up a British company instead.
Still, people knew what they were voting for.
No disrespect Glynn but you need to check up on what is going off in the United States and the EU which is formulating a rival scheme! They are both subsidising Industries.
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You think you could set a UK car company up for millions? Not a prayer.
What Brexit does allow is the UK government more flexibility to make UK specific choices that in some cases wouldn't have happened within the EU, that's exactly the point of Brexit.
Hang on. Two days ago you were saying this was what European countries were doing.
Now you're saying Brexit allows us to do something different.
Which one is it?
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You think you could set a UK car company up for millions? Not a prayer.
What Brexit does allow is the UK government more flexibility to make UK specific choices that in some cases wouldn't have happened within the EU, that's exactly the point of Brexit.
This is about a battery factory, not a car factory. Do keep up.
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It will be interesting to see if Tata insist on subsidised energy for their battery facility.
Quite why ordinary consumers should pick up the tab with a levy on leccy bills is a mystery to me.
The choice of battery chemistry is going to be interesting.
The standard Lithium Ion battery tech is being superceded quickly by the Chinese, moving towards Sodium and solid state options;
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/chinese-battery-manufacturer-started-mass-production-of-solid-state-batteries-215365.html
Making a commitment to the Betamax equivalent at the wrong time could be a costly error!
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For the record, Betamax was a technically better video system. It got forced out by the Sony VHS marketing.
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Yes, Billy, but that is not the point I am making.
The issue is not to be locked in to a particular form factor and chemistry, when the landscape is evolving at pace.
So the Tata gigafactory needs to have flexibility as a core element, so it can be adapted to the rapid change in battery tech and economics.
The combined contribution of the proposed Tata factory and the Nissan facility in the NE is not sufficient to meet UK needs across the economy, of which EV is just one part.
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Yeah I know Albie. Should have made it clear I wasn't disagreeing.
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E10 Petrol €2.12 a litre in Germany!
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Cost of food in France increased 14.90 percent in April of 2023 over the same month in the previous year.
I was just told the french food inflation was only 14% ( and it wasnt a trash programme) so at 14.8% its "a little bit extra" but that was April
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/food-inflation
enjoy ......
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E10 Petrol €2.12 a litre in Germany!
Now, if only Excise Duties were set by the EU and not the individual member states you might have a point!
Oh, and:
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gasoline-prices#:~:text=Gasoline%20Prices%20in%20Germany%20averaged,Liter%20in%20December%20of%202000.
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German wage growth in 2022 was 4.1%. Wage growth in the UK in 2022 was 6.0%.
Real wages in Germany fell 3.4% in 2022. Real wages in the UK fell 2.0% in 2022.
Think how bad the cost of living crisis in the UK is and how much less you can buy with your £££.
Then consider that things are much worse in Germany.
Hence why Germany is in the midst of a nasty little recession and it's economy as shrunk by a not inconsiderable 0.75% in 6 months whilst the UK economy has stayed roughly the same size.
(Edit here got my % the wrong way round re Germany)
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Presumably if all that is due to the EU then it'll be the same or similar in every EU member country?
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Presumably if all that is due to the EU then it'll be the same or similar in every EU member country?
In the EU wages grew 4.4% and in the Euro area (a better comparator for the UK) 4.0% in 2022.
In France wages grew 3.7% and in Italy 2.1%.
So yes the UK is outperforming the EU in terms of wage growth quite considerably. Not just in 2022 but over the last few years.
In terms of real wage growth that is also dependent on cost inflation. Which is higher in Germany and the UK as both countries are heavily reliant on gas for their energy needs. But is lower in say France thanks to their nuclear power stations making them less reliant on gas.
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Over half of the French nuclear operations were out of action last winter, due to aging facilities requiring ongoing maintenance.
They are much less dependent upon gas for home heating than the UK, which is good, provided that they develop capacity for electricity production from renewable sources to replace their decrepit nuclear.
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Presumably if all that is due to the EU then it'll be the same or similar in every EU member country?
In the EU wages grew 4.4% and in the Euro area (a better comparator for the UK) 4.0% in 2022.
In France wages grew 3.7% and in Italy 2.1%.
So yes the UK is outperforming the EU in terms of wage growth quite considerably. Not just in 2022 but over the last few years.
In terms of real wage growth that is also dependent on cost inflation. Which is higher in Germany and the UK as both countries are heavily reliant on gas for their energy needs. But is lower in say France thanks to their nuclear power stations making them less reliant on gas.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/real-earnings-including-bonuses
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/wage-growth
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/wage-growth
https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/wage-growth#:~:text=Wage%20Growth%20in%20European%20Union,the%20second%20quarter%20of%202021.
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Wage growth UK 2022: 6.0%: -
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/wage-growth
EU wage growth 2022 4.4% and Euro area wage growth 4.0%: -
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230420-1
UK is a significant outlier amongst Western European countries in terms of wage growth.
Which explains why Germany, a country similarly reliant on gas for energy, is in (quite a nasty little) recession but the UK is not.
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You're talking gross wage growth. Normal people talk about it in real terms.
For example, wage growth in Germany in 1923 was phenomenal.
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We need to be careful about connecting economic performance directly with gas dependency.
"Which explains why Germany, a country similarly reliant on gas for energy, is in (quite a nasty little) recession but the UK is not."
There are 2 separate issues in play, gas reliance rather than electric, and the source of imported supplies.
The UK and Germany are in a very different place, because Germany has been reliant upon RUSSIAN gas.
https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3260553-these-european-countries-are-the-most-dependent-on-russian-gas/
The UK is not in that position:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9523/
In addition, the preparation for next winter will be based upon the need to minimise those imports.
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Yes I'm talking about gross wage growth (surely most normal people when they're given their annual pay rise don't get home and declare "I've been given a x% real wage cut/increase today"??!!)
It's an important issue during a cost of living crisis which has been caused by prices rising quicker than gross wages.
The UK is benefiting from having relatively high nominal wage growth. But is suffering from having relatively high price inflation.
Germany which has had similar price inflation is suffering more than the UK as it has had lower wage inflation.
And it doesn't matter where the gas comes from in terms of the inflationary impact - there is a market price for gas regardless of source.
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Yeah, normal people completely forget that their wages are growing more slowly than inflation. :silly:
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Of course it matters where the gas comes from.
Piped gas from Russia is lower cost than chilled LNG ,shipped by tanker and subject to terminal facility charges.
This is why there has been a big investment by Germany in LNG terminal capacity, to give import capability in compensation for Nord Stream pipeline supplies.
This has a cost implication going forward, as LNG is generally more expensive as a substitute.
Economies will look to reduce LNG dependence over time by reducing reliance on energy imports, starting with the volatile gas markets.
The inflationary impact will be greater in those economies dependent upon higher LNG import costs.
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Germany has very foolishly relied on Russian gas as its main fuel source. Consequently it has been hit harder than anywhere else by the war. It's inevitable that its economy is struggling as a result.
This has bugger all to do with Brexit.
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Of course Germany's recession has nothing to do with Brexit. That's not my point.
Faster wage growth in the UK compared to practically every country in the Eurozone is at least in part due to Brexit.
You can't accept the line that labour shortages in the UK are down to Brexit without equally accepting the point that said labour shortages must be pushing up wages.
As the supply of anything is constrained the price goes up. Basic economics.
Said wage growth must, by definition, be alleviating to a degree the cost of living crisis and the fall in real wages in the UK.
Hence, despite having similar price inflation to Germany, the UK has avoided a recession similar to theirs.
Brexit has caused labour shortages i.e. Brexit has reduced unemployment (lowest in over 50 years) and therefore Brexit has led to: -
- wages increasing faster than they would have otherwise (see my prior post)
- the cost of living crisis being less worse than it would have been otherwise
- the UK avoiding recession at the end of 2022/start of 2023
Sure Brexit has been bad for Corporations and therefore middle class owners of shares but comparative to those in the EU Brexit has benefited working people in the UK.
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Branton.
What's your source that UK and German inflation have been similar?
The numbers I'm looking at say that UK inflation has consistently been around 2% higher than German inflation for 18 months.
Also, what's the cause and effect logic here?
"Hence (because of supposed higher UK real wage growth), despite having similar price inflation to Germany, the UK has avoided a recession similar to theirs."
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Brexit had very little effect on wages (in most sectors) it was the pandemic and then rising inflation due to the war in Ukraine that has seen wages rise. A lot of people left the employment market - and never came back.
The rise was still below the level of infalation of course. So add that to the extra cost of imports & exports to/from the EU due to Brexit - it has undoubtably made people poorer. Unless you are a millionaire investor/utility CEO making obscene profits and then you are much better of. Which is of course who Brexit was intended to benefit all along.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9366/CBP-9366.pdf
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So to summarise, anything bad = brexit anything good = despite brexit.
Easy guide that some on here seem to want to be gospel
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https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1775780/sir-keir-starmer-labour-rejoin-eu-brexit
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Before you lefties get your knickers in a twist about the paper it’s from this tweet https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1663801783850786816?s=46&t=ineOQWVeqaGIc2ZoyBwTGA
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I wouldn't take Starmer at face value Ldr...he is not exactly honest and trustworthy, is he?
For a more intelligent comment on the situation, Prof Mazzacato is a bit higher up the food chain than Keith;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/31/brexit-britain-future-economy-jaguar-land-rover-industrial-strategy
Good summary from a competent person there.
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https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1775780/sir-keir-starmer-labour-rejoin-eu-brexit
I entirely understand why Starmer is doing this. The well of public debate on our relationship with Europe has been poisoned by a decade of bile from the Right and the far Left. You cannot have a nuanced debate about our relationship with Europe because it will immediately be flagged up by rags like the Express as "Starmer gives in to EU Nazis".
But this language from Starmer is awful. He's diving into the same cess pit as the far Right.
And he is setting himself a massive hostage to fortune. He cannot and will not make Brexit work, because there's no benefit to be had from it. So when he doesn't make Brexit work, what's his line going to be?
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So how many billions £ have we saved since we stopped funding the French National Pension Scheme??? The increase in Frances retirement age clearly correlates to Brexit!
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Now is the time to invest in the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz5jUMVfJP4
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Nice to see it's still going well....
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html
Seems the Government still doesn't understand what Brexit really means, nor the deal that they themselves negotiated!
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I have now taken possession of my share of the entire Brexit dividend, a lovely blue passport.
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Having just come back from a fortnight in Germany,I have to report that they are not happy, food prices through the roof, clothing prices, through the roof, petrol is £1.70 a litre in the sticks and £2.10 a litre on the Motorway , diesel 20p cheaper than Petrol. The things which cheaper are beer, 90 p a 500 mil bottle in the supermarket but €5.60 in the Pub, hence 25% of Germanise pubs have shut down, and it’s very depressing to see so many lovely buildings going down the pan.I bought a bottle of Scotch (Ballantines) in the Super for €10.90. Looks like Covid killed the pubs, same as here but it’s common to see 3/4 Blokes stood in a town square drinking from a crate of 20 they bought in a shop. They take the empties back in the crate and get 8p refund. Everyone moaning about inflation.
Disappointed we left the EEC but I pointed out that they are not as disappointed as the French who have had to increase their pension age due to lack of our handouts!
I have been visiting Germany since I was a toddler and I have never seen it so run down. And that’s upsetting for me.
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Ive been visiting Italy since i was born and i can also vouch for a country that because of the one size has to fit all Euro (to the benefit of the Germans) has been decimated in its Industrial output,
The Euro was a deal made in hell for Italian industry, its basically still smaller now than it was at the turn of the century the price deferential has ruined long established businesses.
It improved the lot of your average bloke in the street but many will now be seeing the inside of dole offices that they didn't expect to see.
As for run down, we are now talking middle eastern levels of destitution in some areas in the South.
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And they’ve all got crap passports.
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Having just come back from a fortnight in Germany,I have to report that they are not happy, food prices through the roof, clothing prices, through the roof, petrol is £1.70 a litre in the sticks and £2.10 a litre on the Motorway , diesel 20p cheaper than Petrol. The things which cheaper are beer, 90 p a 500 mil bottle in the supermarket but €5.60 in the Pub, hence 25% of Germanise pubs have shut down, and it’s very depressing to see so many lovely buildings going down the pan.I bought a bottle of Scotch (Ballantines) in the Super for €10.90. Looks like Covid killed the pubs, same as here but it’s common to see 3/4 Blokes stood in a town square drinking from a crate of 20 they bought in a shop. They take the empties back in the crate and get 8p refund. Everyone moaning about inflation.
Disappointed we left the EEC but I pointed out that they are not as disappointed as the French who have had to increase their pension age due to lack of our handouts!
I have been visiting Germany since I was a toddler and I have never seen it so run down. And that’s upsetting for me.
Funny how all the examples you go on about are due to the level of Excise Duties. Which each member state sets themselves, not the EU. Just like we did all the years we were in the EU.
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Having just come back from a fortnight in Germany,I have to report that they are not happy, food prices through the roof, clothing prices, through the roof, petrol is £1.70 a litre in the sticks and £2.10 a litre on the Motorway , diesel 20p cheaper than Petrol. The things which cheaper are beer, 90 p a 500 mil bottle in the supermarket but €5.60 in the Pub, hence 25% of Germanise pubs have shut down, and it’s very depressing to see so many lovely buildings going down the pan.I bought a bottle of Scotch (Ballantines) in the Super for €10.90. Looks like Covid killed the pubs, same as here but it’s common to see 3/4 Blokes stood in a town square drinking from a crate of 20 they bought in a shop. They take the empties back in the crate and get 8p refund. Everyone moaning about inflation.
Disappointed we left the EEC but I pointed out that they are not as disappointed as the French who have had to increase their pension age due to lack of our handouts!
I have been visiting Germany since I was a toddler and I have never seen it so run down. And that’s upsetting for me.
Funny how all the examples you go on about are due to the level of Excise Duties. Which each member state sets themselves, not the EU. Just like we did all the years we were in the EU.
Sorry Glynn what are you getting at
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Unlike VAT, what a country decides to charge excise duty on, and at what rate, is down to them not the EU. Therefore the prices of Excise goods in each individual member state has nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, and thus nothing to do with Brexit.
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Unlike VAT, what a country decides to charge excise duty on, and at what rate, is down to them not the EU. Therefore the prices of Excise goods in each individual member state has nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, and thus nothing to do with Brexit.
Very good Glynn I will leave your comment with you !
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As it's true, I don't believe you have any other option.
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Surely the point is that some countries within the EU are suffering in very similar ways to Britain. Meaning being in the EU might not be the saviour that many like to think it is.
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Surely the point is that some countries within the EU are suffering in very similar ways to Britain. Meaning being in the EU might not be the saviour that many like to think it is.
That might be so, but doing it by talking about stuff completely unrelated to being in the EU for countries both inside and outside the EU doesn't really make sense in a thread about what the difference is being inside or outside the EU! If anything, it underlines that it's a myth that the EU is an evil monolith that controls everything.
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Unlike VAT, what a country decides to charge excise duty on, and at what rate, is down to them not the EU. Therefore the prices of Excise goods in each individual member state has nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, and thus nothing to do with Brexit.
I don't think that's right, the EU directives still apply minimum duties aswell as minimum vat rates. Im sure Germany for things like alcohol only applies the very minimum, so it does have restrictions.
Of course the UK chooses to be way above these levels tax wise so it wouldn't impact us in most cases. Though we have now diverged on some things.
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Why it would have been a good idea to have put the negotiated deal to the public rather than simply implementing what no one voted for....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4aVzGAd7bI
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Why it would have been a good idea to have put the negotiated deal to the public rather than simply implementing what no one voted for....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4aVzGAd7bI
Am still waiting for the public vote on the Maastricht treaty to move us from the eec to the eu…………….
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Another observation I don’t smoke but. Noticed that everywhere we went folks weee puffing away on cigs so I went to the kiosk in a supermarket and I saw Camel lights for £8.00 for 20. Also 10 cigarillos for £3.20. There were capes on offer but not many folks using them.
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Why it would have been a good idea to have put the negotiated deal to the public rather than simply implementing what no one voted for....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4aVzGAd7bI
Am still waiting for the public vote on the Maastricht treaty to move us from the eec to the eu…………….
Meanwhile, have you come up with any tangible benefits yet?
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Yes we are saving £ Billions by not having to prop up the French Government retirement funds!
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Yes we are saving £ Billions by not having to prop up the French Government retirement funds!
Is this the same France who are a nett contributor to the EU, just as we were, or some other imaginary France you're talking about?
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Yes we are saving £ Billions by not having to prop up the French Government retirement funds!
Is this the same France who are a nett contributor to the EU, just as we were, or some other imaginary France you're talking about?
It’s the France that has had to up the retirement age from 62 to 64 due to being short of funding from somewhere , as you well know!
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Why it would have been a good idea to have put the negotiated deal to the public rather than simply implementing what no one voted for....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4aVzGAd7bI
Am still waiting for the public vote on the Maastricht treaty to move us from the eec to the eu…………….
Meanwhile, have you come up with any tangible benefits yet?
Yes as I have stated, we are no longer in the mix towards the creation of a European superstate which as you know was my reason for voting
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Why it would have been a good idea to have put the negotiated deal to the public rather than simply implementing what no one voted for....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4aVzGAd7bI
Am still waiting for the public vote on the Maastricht treaty to move us from the eec to the eu…………….
Meanwhile, have you come up with any tangible benefits yet?
Yes as I have stated, we are no longer in the mix towards the creation of a European superstate which as you know was my reason for voting
Yes, I understand your reason, (though I doubt it will ever happen), but that wasn't the question I asked.
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Yes we are saving £ Billions by not having to prop up the French Government retirement funds!
Is this the same France who are a nett contributor to the EU, just as we were, or some other imaginary France you're talking about?
It’s the France that has had to up the retirement age from 62 to 64 due to being short of funding from somewhere , as you well know!
Which is a completely internal matter and not funded by the EU or any of it's remaining member states in any way. They can't possibly be when France is a nett contributor anyway.
Now, have ypu got a real Brexit Benefit or are you going to continue to flog this dead horse?
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Yes Glynn they the French have had to up their contributions considerably since jumping off the back of the UK’s eU funding.which is why they couldn’t meet their Pension Commitments!
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Yes Glynn they the French have had to up their contributions considerably since jumping off the back of the UK’s eU funding.which is why they couldn’t meet their Pension Commitments!
They pay a fixed percentage of their GDP, just like we did when a member. Their economy does well, their contributions go up, their economy does badly, their contributions go down. Nothing to do with Brexit.
But hey, keep whipping that corpse!
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Yes Glynn they the French have had to up their contributions considerably since jumping off the back of the UK’s eU funding.which is why they couldn’t meet their Pension Commitments!
They pay a fixed percentage of their GDP, just like we did when a member. Their economy does well, their contributions go up, their economy does badly, their contributions go down. Nothing to do with Brexit.
But hey, keep whipping that corpse!
Their contributions have doubled since 2020 that’s some economic boom they’re having, they must be dodging repairing the 50% of their nuclear power stations which are un serviceable.eh?
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Yes Glynn they the French have had to up their contributions considerably since jumping off the back of the UK’s eU funding.which is why they couldn’t meet their Pension Commitments!
They pay a fixed percentage of their GDP, just like we did when a member. Their economy does well, their contributions go up, their economy does badly, their contributions go down. Nothing to do with Brexit.
But hey, keep whipping that corpse!
Their contributions have doubled since 2020 that’s some economic boom they’re having, they must be dodging repairing the 50% of their nuclear power stations which are un serviceable.eh?
I can only find contribution figures for 2021. Where are you finding figures for 2020 and 2022/3?
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Does €12.5 billion in 2019 and €26billion in 2021 sound about right ?
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No, because although the 2021 amount is the GROSS contribution figure, the 2019 amount is the NETT contribution figure.
And you want us to take you seriously?
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No, because although the 2021 amount is the GROSS contribution figure, the 2019 amount is the NETT contribution figure.
And you want us to take you seriously?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/frances-record-eu-budget-contribution/
That took me 5 minutes to find, not five hours!
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No, because although the 2021 amount is the GROSS contribution figure, the 2019 amount is the NETT contribution figure.
And you want us to take you seriously?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/frances-record-eu-budget-contribution/
That took me 5 minutes to find, not five hours!
That FORECASTS the 2021 figure for gross contribution, which as it happens I don't dispute.
However, no 2019 figure - the one I DO dispute - to be seen at all. You must remember where you got it from, let's see the link for that.
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EU budget: Who pays most in and who gets most back? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318 This might be helpful
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https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/ Another one Glynn
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Sproty
The net UK contribution in the last few years before we Got Brexit Done (sic) was about £10-20 for each citizen of the EU.
Can you walk me through how losing that has wrecked the French state pension?
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https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/ Another one Glynn
I've seen both of those days ago when looking for your 2019 figure. I still haven't found it yet so they're useless, like you are when asked to show where you got the 2019 figure from. Still waiting. You keep telling me it's easy to find so where is it?
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https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/ Another one Glynn
I've seen both of those days ago when looking for your 2019 figure. I still haven't found it yet so they're useless, like you are when asked to show where you got the 2019 figure from. Still waiting. You keep telling me it's easy to find so where is it?
Go take a running jump at yourself, I’m right and you are wrong and your so pedantic you can’t stand it, I haven’t seen one link from you yet, pull your finger out and show me the money?
Not one single link from you, put up or shut up?
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https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/ Another one Glynn
I've seen both of those days ago when looking for your 2019 figure. I still haven't found it yet so they're useless, like you are when asked to show where you got the 2019 figure from. Still waiting. You keep telling me it's easy to find so where is it?
Go take a running jump at yourself, I’m right and you are wrong and your so pedantic you can’t stand it, I haven’t seen one link from you yet, pull your finger out and show me the money?
Not one single link from you, put up or shut up?
YOU stated amounts of money, YOU haven't given a link to prove it. YOU'VE been found out spouting crap and now YOU'RE cornered YOU get abusive because YOU aren't man enough to admit it.
2019, 12.5 billions euros contribution, gross not nett. YOUR claim, NOT mine. Put up or shut up.
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Germany 5.75 in 2016 down to 3.4 in 2022, don't recall them leaving the EU
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Germany 5.75 in 2016 down to 3.4 in 2022, don't recall them leaving the EU
Where have you got that from?
Germany's net contribution in 2021 was €25.5bn. I can't easily find numbers for 2022, but I doubt it'll be much lower than that.
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Germany 5.75 in 2016 down to 3.4 in 2022, don't recall them leaving the EU
Where have you got that from?
Germany's net contribution in 2021 was €25.5bn. I can't easily find numbers for 2022, but I doubt it'll be much lower than that.
Apologies, i was replying to car production numbers in Germany and put it in the wrong place, must of had a brain fart with beating a team 2 tiers above us tonight.
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https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/ Another one Glynn
I've seen both of those days ago when looking for your 2019 figure. I still haven't found it yet so they're useless, like you are when asked to show where you got the 2019 figure from. Still waiting. You keep telling me it's easy to find so where is it?
Go take a running jump at yourself, I’m right and you are wrong and your so pedantic you can’t stand it, I haven’t seen one link from you yet, pull your finger out and show me the money?
Not one single link from you, put up or shut up?
YOU stated amounts of money, YOU haven't given a link to prove it. YOU'VE been found out spouting crap and now YOU'RE cornered YOU get abusive because YOU aren't man enough to admit it.
2019, 12.5 billions euros contribution, gross not nett. YOUR claim, NOT mine. Put up or shut up.
You have been spouting off about Net and Gross
But you can’t prove it, can you???
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You have been spouting off about Net and Gross
But you can’t prove it, can you???
As it happens I have now found something online that can confirm the French net contribution of 2019. But before I post it, I just want to confirm that you still stand by this:
Their contributions have doubled since 2020
and confirm that when you said this:
Does €12.5 billion in 2019 and €26billion in 2021 sound about right ?
that both figures are either gross contributions or both are net contributions but not one of each, which would be a completely shit comparison to make.
Just to make sure you can't try and wriggle out of it afterwards.
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This country is f*cked mainly because adults can't accept when they are wrong these days; no-one seems to have any humilty.
Brexit is OBVIOUSLY a terrible mistake concerning our economy. Facts are facts. Yet I hear people now saying they knew that all along and knew it would take 20+ years to reap the benefits?!?!
Just grow a pair, admit you're wrong and admit we should AT LEAST rejoin the single market so we don't f*ck over our children and grandchildren.
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This country is f*cked mainly because adults can't accept when they are wrong these days; no-one seems to have any humilty.
Brexit is OBVIOUSLY a terrible mistake concerning our economy. Facts are facts. Yet I hear people now saying they knew that all along and knew it would take 20+ years to reap the benefits?!?!
Just grow a pair, admit you're wrong and admit we should AT LEAST rejoin the single market so we don't f*ck over our children and grandchildren.
I’d have no issue with that, in fact I believe if the transition from eec to eu hadn’t happened then the whole brexit issue would not have surfaced.
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The Single Market wasn't part of the EEC but the EU. It could only happen after the Maastricht Treaty.
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The Single Market wasn't part of the EEC but the EU. It could only happen after the Maastricht Treaty.
What I’m getting at Glyn is that it should have remained a trading bloc not a political entity
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Ldr
Which aspects of the "political entity" of the EU so badly affront your concept of our sovereignty that it justifies punching ourselves repeatedly in the economic b*llocks to be free of them?
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Ldr
Which aspects of the "political entity" of the EU so badly affront your concept of our sovereignty that it justifies punching ourselves repeatedly in the economic b*llocks to be free of them?
Just acknowledging that I read your comment but choose not to engage with you at this time
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That's fine Ldr. Absolutely your prerogative.
It's just that I've seen Brexit supporters asked that question for years, and never have any solid example to return with. Just a worry about what might have happened in a hypothetical parallel universe.
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The Single Market wasn't part of the EEC but the EU. It could only happen after the Maastricht Treaty.
What I’m getting at Glyn is that it should have remained a trading bloc not a political entity
That's fine if that's what you want but you'd still have all the red tape, Customs bureaucracy and ensuing delays that we've had to re-introduce since leaving the Single Market.
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Think of it this way Glynn, all that Bureaucracy and red tape keeps people in work, whether they are any good at it you would know better than I being part of it in your time.
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That's fine Ldr. Absolutely your prerogative.
It's just that I've seen Brexit supporters asked that question for years, and never have any solid example to return with. Just a worry about what might have happened in a hypothetical parallel universe.
BST, i think the vast majority of people were and would be happy with a trading block agreement only.
After all its the leading model of cooperation between most trading block agreements around the world. Im quite happy to have trading agreements with anyone, what i do object to is having political agreements within a trading block that tie's us into deals which have to be a compromise between nations that don't have a great deal in common with each other, this means that you rarely get your desired outcome, when in the EU we often had to agree to policy that was led by nations who by their closer attachments often overrode our preference.
The fact the EU has a long term goal of becoming a federal state with all the political power attached to have a common financial, social and defence policy, including the Euro, a European army and social policy that means we have no control over what we personally want to have means that myself and a great many others would never want to be a part of this artificial construct. By all means have aligned policy if it's best practice and suits are requirements but have the political freedom to deviate when it suits.
So for me the fact we have to work harder to improve our social and economic position outside of this cosy club is something we have to tolerate in place of becoming a member of an artificial and ungovernable federal state member.
We just need better governance by a political party that has the competence and experience to deliver growth, stability and prosperity for all, i don't want to pay for additional political constructs who i have no way of removing to tell us what to do when i already pay for 650 of them in the commons and god knows how many hundreds of unelected hangers on in the upper house, why do we need another incompetent construct to tell us what we have to do?
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Think of it this way Glynn, all that Bureaucracy and red tape keeps people in work, whether they are any good at it you would know better than I being part of it in your time.
It would only give jobs to a handful of people at points of entry, whereas the effect of it on the companies who have been affected by it and had to lay off workers due to lost business is countrywide.
How about you look at it that way.
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The Single Market wasn't part of the EEC but the EU. It could only happen after the Maastricht Treaty.
What I’m getting at Glyn is that it should have remained a trading bloc not a political entity
That's fine if that's what you want but you'd still have all the red tape, Customs bureaucracy and ensuing delays that we've had to re-introduce since leaving the Single Market.
The thing is. EVERY trade agreement involves a pooling of sovereignty to some extent.
"Sovereignty" isn't like virginity. There's no binary "I have/have not got it" issue. It's malleable.
The real question about the EU wasn't "do we have Sovereignty or not?"
It was "Is what we gain worth the sacrifice of some of our Sovereignty?"
That question was never addressed. Neither in 2016 nor since.
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The problem is that collaborating with other countries has been painted as loss of sovereignity and therefore as something bad even when it's in both country's best interests.
And some people fall for that argument.
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The problem is that collaborating with other countries has been painted as loss of sovereignity and therefore as something bad even when it's in both country's best interests.
And some people fall for that argument.
Fiddling Farming subsidies seems to be the norm, whose interest is that in ?, even the Dutch farmers are doing it
Typical EU make stuff so complicated that you can’t even Police the system properly.
If the Dutch are doing it what about the rest?
https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/08/dozens-of-farmers-claim-other-peoples-land-for-eu-grants-ftm/
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You have been spouting off about Net and Gross
But you can’t prove it, can you???
As it happens I have now found something online that can confirm the French net contribution of 2019. But before I post it, I just want to confirm that you still stand by this:
Their contributions have doubled since 2020
and confirm that when you said this:
Does €12.5 billion in 2019 and €26billion in 2021 sound about right ?
that both figures are either gross contributions or both are net contributions but not one of each, which would be a completely shit comparison to make.
Just to make sure you can't try and wriggle out of it afterwards.
Waiting for you to reply to this is making the five hours you accused me of taking to do something look positively fleeting.
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One undeniable Brexit downside.
Rovers have been bloody awful since we left the Single Market!
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You have been spouting off about Net and Gross
But you can’t prove it, can you???
As it happens I have now found something online that can confirm the French net contribution of 2019. But before I post it, I just want to confirm that you still stand by this:
Their contributions have doubled since 2020
and confirm that when you said this:
Does €12.5 billion in 2019 and €26billion in 2021 sound about right ?
that both figures are either gross contributions or both are net contributions but not one of each, which would be a completely shit comparison to make.
Just to make sure you can't try and wriggle out of it afterwards.
Waiting for you to reply to this is making the five hours you accused me of taking to do something look positively fleeting.
You claim to have links to sites which support your case, yet you seem to think I have to trawl through the internet to find the information that supports you, how nonsensical of you!
-
You have been spouting off about Net and Gross
But you can’t prove it, can you???
As it happens I have now found something online that can confirm the French net contribution of 2019. But before I post it, I just want to confirm that you still stand by this:
Their contributions have doubled since 2020
and confirm that when you said this:
Does €12.5 billion in 2019 and €26billion in 2021 sound about right ?
that both figures are either gross contributions or both are net contributions but not one of each, which would be a completely shit comparison to make.
Just to make sure you can't try and wriggle out of it afterwards.
Waiting for you to reply to this is making the five hours you accused me of taking to do something look positively fleeting.
You claim to have links to sites which support your case, yet you seem to think I have to trawl through the internet to find the information that supports you, how nonsensical of you!
No I don't, I just want you to confirm that you still believe and maintain what you said in the first place. That's all.
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You have been spouting off about Net and Gross
But you can’t prove it, can you???
As it happens I have now found something online that can confirm the French net contribution of 2019. But before I post it, I just want to confirm that you still stand by this:
Their contributions have doubled since 2020
and confirm that when you said this:
Does €12.5 billion in 2019 and €26billion in 2021 sound about right ?
that both figures are either gross contributions or both are net contributions but not one of each, which would be a completely shit comparison to make.
Just to make sure you can't try and wriggle out of it afterwards.
Waiting for you to reply to this is making the five hours you accused me of taking to do something look positively fleeting.
You claim to have links to sites which support your case, yet you seem to think I have to trawl through the internet to find the information that supports you, how nonsensical of you!
No I don't, I just want you to confirm that you still believe and maintain what you said in the first place. That's all.
I think you need to see your Doctor Glynn!
I made a statement you claim I am wrong and you can prove it but you haven’t have you?
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I believe this Brexit Benefit comes into being in 2024
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/who-should-apply_en
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Good to see we're taking back control....
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/29/economy/uk-food-imports-safety-brexit/index.html
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I believe this Brexit Benefit comes into being in 2024
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/who-should-apply_en
This affects around 1.4 billion people worldwide. Including the US. Just 7euro for three years. For those that want to travel to Europe that is.
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And before Brexit we weren't part of that 1.4 billion, nr, which you conveniently omitted to mention.
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Yes and the 1.4 billion who would love to come won’t be, it’s the gift that keeps on giving is Brexit
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And before Brexit we weren't part of that 1.4 billion, nr, which you conveniently omitted to mention.
Why would I state the utterly obvious?
My comment was about balance and context .
420 ish million live within the Schengen area.
Over three times that amount need a poxy piece of paper to enter it, should they wish, from 2024. For a Couple of measley quid a year.
It’s no big deal.
Unless of course you have a massive political agenda.
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As you said sprot 'the gift that keeps on giving'
''Scrapping housebuilder pollution rules is a regression, watchdog tells Coffey
Office for Environmental Protection chair tells ministers plan will degrade England’s rivers and demands that they explain it to MPs''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/30/scrapping-housebuilder-pollution-rules-is-a-regression-watchdog-tells-coffey
It's just what UK rivers need aye?
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Yes and the 1.4 billion who would love to come won’t be, it’s the gift that keeps on giving is Brexit
Sproggy?
Do you really believe that?
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So, it's a Brexit benefit... who would have guessed?
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Yes and the 1.4 billion who would love to come won’t be, it’s the gift that keeps on giving is Brexit
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjokcupqIeBAxWtUUEAHc42BXsQFnoECBUQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fbusiness%2F2023%2F07%2F25%2Fbritish-economy-outperform-germany-this-year-imf%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DBritain%2520will%2520outperform%2520Germany%2520this%2CUK%2520economy%2520failed%2520to%2520materialize.&usg=AOvVaw3oBQL6i0y0wqgkH6zUrhlC&opi=89978449
I know this will upset a lot of you !
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiCwtOQqYeBAxWbVUEAHck6AjkQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Ff3ef3af0-83e1-414d-83ee-c860bf19053d&usg=AOvVaw170gfzkoh-fn_5hUg1L55E&opi=89978449
And yet more upset!
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Yup, a lot of people appear to be upset Sproty:
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
-
You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’s another question.
-
You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’sl another question.
I will ignore your offensive post, Do not bother trying to engage me in replies to posts, you are not worth the effort of a reply!
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’sl another question.
I will ignore your offensive post, Do not bother trying to engage me in replies to posts, you are not worth the effort of a reply!
You made the initial statement, ignored a question and then, when the question, which was quite easy to understand, was repeated, you obfuscated - something you often do - and made a stupid statement as to wether it was a question at all. If anyone isn’t worth engaging with it’s you!
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https://www.ft.com/content/50386cc2-003b-4af1-946b-cf3243da810f
Interesting that the ONS have made a rather large amendment to their figures. I wasn't sure whether to post in the Brexit thread or the Covid thread....
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’s another question.
Just for balance NNK, while you are correcting sproty, did you know that the word “ask” ends with a “k”.
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’s another question.
Just for balance NNK, while you are correcting sproty, did you know that the word “ask” ends with a “k”.
Ah, the cavalry, where would we be without it?
Meanwhile, I see Sprotty still hasn’t answered. Maybe it’s because it was a stupid thing for him to post in the first place.
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’s another question.
Just for balance NNK, while you are correcting sproty, did you know that the word “ask” ends with a “k”.
Ah, the cavalry, where would we be without it?
Meanwhile, I see Sprotty still hasn’t answered. Maybe it’s because it was a stupid thing for him to post in the first place.
https://youtu.be/MGf2a1xJjLo?si=0baf_3FfEQlIIMLq
Sums the situation up nicely for me!
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’s another question.
Just for balance NNK, while you are correcting sproty, did you know that the word “ask” ends with a “k”.
Ah, the cavalry, where would we be without it?
Meanwhile, I see Sprotty still hasn’t answered. Maybe it’s because it was a stupid thing for him to post in the first place.
https://youtu.be/MGf2a1xJjLo?si=0baf_3FfEQlIIMLq
Sums the situation up nicely for me!
As expected, doesn’t answer the question I asked of you; but it does say an awful lot about you.
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You seem to have avoided the question Sprotty. So I'll as it again....
1.4 billion who would love to come where Sproty?
Oh it was a question was it , please detail what information you would like me to give you ?
You want me to wipe your arse for you? Go read your earlier post to which I asked my question twice and you still haven’t responded, and respond, please.
Oh, and did they not teach you what a ? at the end of a sentence meant? And for the avoidance of doubt that’s another question.
Just for balance NNK, while you are correcting sproty, did you know that the word “ask” ends with a “k”.
Ah, the cavalry, where would we be without it?
Meanwhile, I see Sprotty still hasn’t answered. Maybe it’s because it was a stupid thing for him to post in the first place.
https://youtu.be/MGf2a1xJjLo?si=0baf_3FfEQlIIMLq
Sums the situation up nicely for me!
As expected, doesn’t answer the question I asked of you; but it does say an awful lot about you.
keep the insults coming you strange individual!
It was a rhetorical statement I have no intention of listing the the inexhaustible list of countries across this planet inhabited by people who would rather seek a better life here or in the United States of America.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
Sorry but why are jobs being creteated bad news? Not that I am a pal of NNK.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
Sorry but why are jobs being creteated bad news? Not that I am a pal of NNK.
It’s not a bad thing, but certain posters on this thread seem to think this country in on its backside after leaving the EU that is simply not the case is it?
(I assume you mean created ? Thought I would point it out before you get a lecture from the Grammar Politzie!)
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
Sorry but why are jobs being creteated bad news? Not that I am a pal of NNK.
It’s not a bad thing, but certain posters on this thread seem to think this country in on its backside after leaving the EU that is simply not the case is it?
(I assume you mean created ? Thought I would point it out before you get a lecture from the Grammar Politzie!)
Well the people who make and sell things abroad say leaving the EU has made life more difficult and expensive for them. And given the government has refused to implement all the new Customs Checks it was supposed to - they clearly think there is an issue too. And it seems companies Like BMW wont invest without £millions in taxpayer support:
https://news.sky.com/story/bmw-to-make-new-electric-mini-in-oxford-after-securing-millions-in-taxpayer-funding-12958875
Then again Brexit was never about trade or support for manufacturing - it was about relaxing the rules on tax dodgers to evade more tax and unscrupulous business reducing costs by being allowed to pollute and reduce workers rights.
I agree with the government supporting companies to create jobs btw. But then again I am not a free-marketer who says everything should be left to the market.
I tend to ignore the Grammer Politizi in the hope they will ignore me. Usually works.
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There’s some good points there Wilts, The War has had a disproportionate effect on quite a few EEC Countries, and it has worked in our Favour. It was disconcerting when I visited Germany in the Summer, they have really suffered due to their reliance on cheap Russian Fuel. INEOS has benefited massively from their long term investment and as a consequence so have we ! Another massive for us is the Potash mine a Whitby, they will soon be annually exporting £10 Billion of the best natural fertiliser on the planet, and the reserves are currently known to be 1 billion Tons, the Scots Nationalist need to consider that before they counter on about the English persecution!
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A little off topic regarding EVs, what will become apparent over the coming years is that no matter the gains in EV technology the 'family car' will become obsolete. Buying a vehicle that seats 4-5 people and then mainly using it to for the transportation of 1 does not make any sense. The future will be smaller hubs where necessary shops and services will be provided with more and pedestrian zones will expand.
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So it’s ok in a city but my village has no facilities what do we do ?
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So it’s ok in a city but my village has no facilities what do we do ?
You start canvassing with your neighbours to your local MP (Milliband isn't it) and for him to make representations to the government to get some money for bus services. Don't leave it to someone else.
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Seems some eu countries are finding ways to get round the free movement issues created by brexit. Earlier this year Spain introduced a Digital Nomad visa. Work in Spain online, enjoy tax breaks too.
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So it’s ok in a city but my village has no facilities what do we do ?
You start canvassing with your neighbours to your local MP (Milliband isn't it) and for him to make representations to the government to get some money for bus services. Don't leave it to someone else.
Tried that when we lost our Hourly bus service, we will have to wait for the next Government.
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So it’s ok in a city but my village has no facilities what do we do ?
You start canvassing with your neighbours to your local MP (Milliband isn't it) and for him to make representations to the government to get some money for bus services. Don't leave it to someone else.
Tried that when we lost our Hourly bus service, we will have to wait for the next Government.
That's what happens when we have a Govt that cut Council funding by 40% unfortunately.
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So it’s ok in a city but my village has no facilities what do we do ?
You start canvassing with your neighbours to your local MP (Milliband isn't it) and for him to make representations to the government to get some money for bus services. Don't leave it to someone else.
Tried that when we lost our Hourly bus service, we will have to wait for the next Government.
That's what happens when we have a Govt that cut Council funding by 40% unfortunately.
In our case no, it was a case of Great houghton lobbying for a better service and to save 3 minutes in order to modify the route it meant we lost our bus service as it was re routed.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
Of course it’s not bad news, the creation of jobs is always a good thing. But it has bugger all to do with Brexit, do you seriously believe it has? And where do you think the profits will go?
Meanwhile, this has everything to do with Brexit….. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/14/exclusive-new-uk-banks-post-brexit-investment-only-one-third-of-lost-eu-funds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Got any real benefits? For the avoidance of doubt, that’s a rhetorical question.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
Of course it’s not bad news, the creation of jobs is always a good thing. But it has bugger all to do with Brexit, do you seriously believe it has? And where do you think the profits will go?
Meanwhile, this has everything to do with Brexit….. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/14/exclusive-new-uk-banks-post-brexit-investment-only-one-third-of-lost-eu-funds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Got any real benefits? For the avoidance of doubt, that’s a rhetorical question.
Oh dear, mummy caught you ‘Obfuscating’ in the bathroom again!
-
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiDtNeMhaOBAxVtXEEAHdPnBeAQFnoECBQQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fbusiness%2Fautos-transportation%2Fbritain-says-bmw-make-multimillion-pound-investment-electric-mini-output-2023-09-11%2F%23%3A~%3Atext%3DLONDON%252C%2520Sept%252011%2520(Reuters)%2Cyears%2520of%2520Brexit%252Drelated%2520uncertainty.&usg=AOvVaw0XAV9IkwJg58YOl6PAQQgf&opi=89978449
More bad news for the likes of NNK and pals!
Of course it’s not bad news, the creation of jobs is always a good thing. But it has bugger all to do with Brexit, do you seriously believe it has? And where do you think the profits will go?
Meanwhile, this has everything to do with Brexit….. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/14/exclusive-new-uk-banks-post-brexit-investment-only-one-third-of-lost-eu-funds?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Got any real benefits? For the avoidance of doubt, that’s a rhetorical question.
Oh dear, mummy caught you ‘Obfuscating’ in the bathroom again!
Time you grew up if you want to have an adult conversation.
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Page two near the bottom, is it a sign Kato and BST are on holiday at Syds, or just good news?
Well good news actually, all the talk of bankers off to Frankfurt and Paris has come to naught, and even better the London bankers are closing in fast O New York no less to become the top banking centre probably as soon as the next quarter ( a nice Christmas present and publicity leading up to the next6 election don't you think).
The sad news is that Paris and Frankfurt have been left wallowing in 14th and 15th yes I will repeat that shocking news 14th and 15th in the world list of bourses.
The only conclusion I can come to is I BLAME BREXIT.
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I blame Brexit for the lovely joint of Silverside,Black Angus premium Aussie Beef I bought at Direct meats at Edlington yesterday , bloody luvely
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You and Smogg heh
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
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''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
Do you know the name of the boat that was sunk in Sydney Harbour by a Japanese midget submarine?
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''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
Mr Cut n Copy!!!
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''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
Beats me why anyone engages with him, just snipes from the gallery or posts what the guardian tells him to think
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Surprised those complaining didn't add vat on private education to their list (not allowed in EU law).
-
I don't know if this has been mentioned and I can't be arsed to read all seven pages so apologies if it's been covered but the Windsor Framework for good "exported" to Northern Ireland is at best complex and very costly and at worst completely bloody unworkable.
Working in grocery supply, any goods delivered either directly to our customers' Northern Ireland RDCs or into their GB RDCs for onward carriage to NI have to be labelled "Not for EU."
On the face of it that sounds quite simple. Just print that onto the packagain or stick a label on and job's a good 'un.
But we sell the same products across numerous channels including export so we can't print "not for EU" on the packaging. We could ask our customers to inform us when orders they're placing for delivery to one of their GB hubs are destined for Northern Ireland and sticker up that stock. Of course we would need to find space on site or pay carriage to a co-packer to then strip down the pallets, label the requisite number of packs, re-stack and ship back out. The cost of which on products typically retailing at between 50p & £5 would need to be passed on to the retailers. They wouldn't accept this as they'd have to significantly increase retail pricing.
I could go into a lot more boring detail but you get the idea. It's a complete shambles. But blue passports. Yay.
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Do you send goods to none EU countries, if so is this any different to that process?
Just wondered if this is purely an EU or global thing
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Yes, we sell the same products in the UK as the EU. That's fine as shipping/tariffs etc. are included in the prices when supplying directly to the EU and other countries. The only issue we have is when we supply goods for sale in Northern Ireland and would effectively need to set up new SKU codes, manage a separate forecast and supply chain, hold stock of two different sets of packaging and lose efficiency as we change over for small runs etc. etc. etc...
It just doesn't work.
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Ok, so is this now making your transactions with NI not cost effective, enough to consider if it makes any sense to continue to supply the NI market. Or is there still enough of a profit to be made there to persist with it.
I would imagine quite a few traders are going through the same thought process.
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''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
Beats me why anyone engages with him, just snipes from the gallery
Thats hilarious!
Can you nit see the irony and hypocrisy of what you and two others have just done??
Ha,ha,ha. I'm laughing my head off.
Give us a benefit Ldr and get back to the thread.
I can't think of one benefit apart from taking back control and stopping those boats coming over.
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
Do you know the name of the boat that was sunk in Sydney Harbour by a Japanese midget submarine?
Syd, you have been told………get back on topic.
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
Beats me why anyone engages with him, just snipes from the gallery
Thats hilarious!
Can you nit see the irony and hypocrisy of what you and two others have just done??
Ha,ha,ha. I'm laughing my head off.
Give us a benefit Ldr and get back to the thread.
I can't think of one benefit apart from taking back control and stopping those boats coming over.
Are you coming on to me????
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I’ll give the same answer I have on numerous occasions (which I am sure you have read because you wouldn’t want to look a prick in front of the board) that a tangible benefit to me is that we are no longer part of the drive to be a federal Europe.
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I see none of the lightweights are touchy about brexit
-
Ok, so is this now making your transactions with NI not cost effective, enough to consider if it makes any sense to continue to supply the NI market. Or is there still enough of a profit to be made there to persist with it.
I would imagine quite a few traders are going through the same thought process.
Exactly that. We're doing an exercise to say "how much would it cost us to just say we'll pull out of NI and save the hassle?"
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Quite amazing that the usual suspects are screaming about the country descending in to fascism but can't see the danger of thousands of flag waving extremists trying to overturn a democratic vote marching through the streets of London .
https://youtu.be/Q7UBkMq7IMs?si=hbsjR0k6wBfC9icU
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Quite amazing that the usual suspects are screaming about the country descending in to fascism but can't see the danger of thousands of flag waving extremists trying to overturn a democratic vote marching through the streets of London .
https://youtu.be/Q7UBkMq7IMs?si=hbsjR0k6wBfC9icU
You don't wish to address Mike's real world problem that he's shown above?
-
Ok, so is this now making your transactions with NI not cost effective, enough to consider if it makes any sense to continue to supply the NI market. Or is there still enough of a profit to be made there to persist with it.
I would imagine quite a few traders are going through the same thought process.
Exactly that. We're doing an exercise to say "how much would it cost us to just say we'll pull out of NI and save the hassle?"
We pretty much should do that as a country but that’s not realistic
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
Beats me why anyone engages with him, just snipes from the gallery
Thats hilarious!
Can you nit see the irony and hypocrisy of what you and two others have just done??
Ha,ha,ha. I'm laughing my head off.
Give us a benefit Ldr and get back to the thread.
I can't think of one benefit apart from taking back control and stopping those boats coming over.
Are you coming on to me????
Steady on. You'll end up being accused of being homophobic.
-
I’ll give the same answer I have on numerous occasions (which I am sure you have read because you wouldn’t want to look a prick in front of the board) that a tangible benefit to me is that we are no longer part of the drive to be a federal Europe.
I do apologise for touching a raw nerve about sniping from the gallery.
It is blatantly obvious that's what happened as I could feel you getting all hot headed and red in the face when you posted about 'looking a prick'.
There's already plenty on here so I wouldn't be alone.
Britain has never been and was never going to be part of a federal Europe.So that isn't really a benefit is it?
-
''Rishi Sunak is dead wrong about UK farming and the Australian trade deal''
https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/rishi-sunak-is-dead-wrong-about-uk-farming-and-the-australian-trade-deal/
hmmm
So what are your thoughts on the subject?
He doesn’t answer questions mate.
Beats me why anyone engages with him, just snipes from the gallery
Thats hilarious!
Can you nit see the irony and hypocrisy of what you and two others have just done??
Ha,ha,ha. I'm laughing my head off.
Give us a benefit Ldr and get back to the thread.
I can't think of one benefit apart from taking back control and stopping those boats coming over.
Are you coming on to me????
Steady on. You'll end up being accused of being homophobic.
Sorry Iagree with LDR, the agenda starting with a merging of our Armed Forces would have ultimately meant wrestling away our right to self govern, they also wanted to facilitate the downsizing of London as head of the world Banking system and that has been another miserable fail. Also keep your eyes on Poland and Czech Republic/Slovakia.
-
September 28, 20238:51 PM GMT+10Updated 9 days ago
''LONDON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Britain set out plans on Thursday to ease key banking and insurance rules in the latest attempt to boost its vital financial sector following the country's departure from the European Union.
Brexit has cut off Britain's finance industry, which accounts for about 12% of UK economic output, from much of the EU and sector officials want the government to speed up reforms to help it remain globally competitive.
London's financial hub also faces tough competition from New York in company listings, and a survey on Thursday showed Singapore is now almost neck-and-neck with the British capital in global financial centre rankings''
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-ease-capital-rules-retail-banks-boost-competition-2023-09-28/
is this what you mean sprot?
-
September 28, 20238:51 PM GMT+10Updated 9 days ago
''LONDON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Britain set out plans on Thursday to ease key banking and insurance rules in the latest attempt to boost its vital financial sector following the country's departure from the European Union.
Brexit has cut off Britain's finance industry, which accounts for about 12% of UK economic output, from much of the EU and sector officials want the government to speed up reforms to help it remain globally competitive.
London's financial hub also faces tough competition from New York in company listings, and a survey on Thursday showed Singapore is now almost neck-and-neck with the British capital in global financial centre rankings''
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-ease-capital-rules-retail-banks-boost-competition-2023-09-28/
is this what you mean sprot?
Yup ,no mention of Frankfurt or Paris!
-
Paris in August is the best.
-
Paris in August is the best.
Yeah got to agree with you, all of the Parisians bog off on their hols for the month so it’s nice and quiet!
-
Not so much from r the bedbugs
Paris in August is the best.
Yeah got to agree with you, all of the Parisians bog off on their hols for the month so it’s nice and quiet!
Not so much for the bed bugs to munch on.
-
Paris in August is the best.
I love Paris in the Springtime
-
Got a huge problem with African mosquitoes carry Dengue fever, Malaria and some other nasty diseases
-
but what about Paris?
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ahbE6bcVf8
Apart from the bedbugs
-
Just been on France 24, Rats are also a problem in Paris with 2 per perso, six million, also in the Countryside there are 1 million wild Boar!
-
London is set to overtake New York as the top financial centre in the world, Paris and Frankfurt are at present ranked at 14th and 15th. I blame Brexit.
-
September 28, 20238:51 PM GMT+10Updated 9 days ago
''LONDON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Britain set out plans on Thursday to ease key banking and insurance rules in the latest attempt to boost its vital financial sector following the country's departure from the European Union.
Brexit has cut off Britain's finance industry, which accounts for about 12% of UK economic output, from much of the EU and sector officials want the government to speed up reforms to help it remain globally competitive.
London's financial hub also faces tough competition from New York in company listings, and a survey on Thursday showed Singapore is now almost neck-and-neck with the British capital in global financial centre rankings''
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-ease-capital-rules-retail-banks-boost-competition-2023-09-28/
is this what you mean sprot?
Yup ,no mention of Frankfurt or Paris!
London is set to overtake New York as the top financial centre in the world, Paris and Frankfurt are at present ranked at 14th and 15th. I blame Brexit.
-
September 28, 20238:51 PM GMT+10Updated 9 days ago
''LONDON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Britain set out plans on Thursday to ease key banking and insurance rules in the latest attempt to boost its vital financial sector following the country's departure from the European Union.
Brexit has cut off Britain's finance industry, which accounts for about 12% of UK economic output, from much of the EU and sector officials want the government to speed up reforms to help it remain globally competitive.
London's financial hub also faces tough competition from New York in company listings, and a survey on Thursday showed Singapore is now almost neck-and-neck with the British capital in global financial centre rankings''
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-ease-capital-rules-retail-banks-boost-competition-2023-09-28/
is this what you mean sprot?
Yup ,no mention of Frankfurt or Paris!
London is set to overtake New York as the top financial centre in the world, Paris and Frankfurt are at present ranked at 14th and 15th. I blame Brexit.
As I said Syd a miserable fail!
-
''London vs. New York: How Do They Compare?
New York holds the top spot on the 33rd annual Global Financial Centres Index (GFCI), published by Long Finance in March 2023. It aims to rank the vital roles that different cities play in global finance. London is in second place.
1 However, this hasn't always been the case, with New York ranking below its across-the-pond rival as recently as March 2018.
2 It may seem difficult to quantify the importance of a financial center, but the GFCI ranks the world's major financial cities and evaluates their future competitiveness by analyzing 153 "instrumental factors." These data points include quantitative measures gathered from third parties like the World Bank and the United Nations. The index also accounts for the results of questionnaires asking more than 10,000 respondents around the world to assess different financial centers.
1
Z/Yen Group Ltd. "The Global Financial Centres Index 33."
https://www.investopedia.com/london-vs-new-york-financial-districts-7552437
edit
Note: Even though it is all money, NY and London are leaders in different commodities.
-
I blame Nyexit.
-
''EU warns Elon Musk over ‘disinformation’ on X about Hamas attack
Failing to moderate content such as fake news could incur fine of 6% of X revenues or EU blackout under new laws ......
...... The EU has issued a warning to Elon Musk over the alleged disinformation about the Hamas attack on Israel, including fake news and “repurposed old images”, on X, which was formerly known as Twitter.
The letter arrives less than two months after sweeping new laws regulating content on social media seen in the EU came into force under the Digital Services Act''
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/oct/10/eu-warns-elon-musk-over-disinformation-about-hamas-attack-on-x
Will the UK do the same?
-
Will Australia do the same?
-
''EU warns Elon Musk over ‘disinformation’ on X about Hamas attack
Failing to moderate content such as fake news could incur fine of 6% of X revenues or EU blackout under new laws ......
...... The EU has issued a warning to Elon Musk over the alleged disinformation about the Hamas attack on Israel, including fake news and “repurposed old images”, on X, which was formerly known as Twitter.
The letter arrives less than two months after sweeping new laws regulating content on social media seen in the EU came into force under the Digital Services Act''
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/oct/10/eu-warns-elon-musk-over-disinformation-about-hamas-attack-on-x
Will the UK do the same?
Yes Sydney what is your stand on this ?
-
London is set to overtake New York as the top financial centre in the world, Paris and Frankfurt are at present ranked at 14th and 15th. I blame Brexit.
I was saying that throughout the process - that's exactly what Brexit was about!!! Making London the place of choice for oligarchs, tax dodgers, money lauderers, crypto-criminals and other kleptocrats to keep their money.
Levelling up, taking back control, sovereignty - they were all a con to get ordinary people to make rich people richer.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Butler-World-Britain-Empire-Found/dp/178816587X
Well done Selby.
-
''EU warns Elon Musk over ‘disinformation’ on X about Hamas attack
Failing to moderate content such as fake news could incur fine of 6% of X revenues or EU blackout under new laws ......
...... The EU has issued a warning to Elon Musk over the alleged disinformation about the Hamas attack on Israel, including fake news and “repurposed old images”, on X, which was formerly known as Twitter.
The letter arrives less than two months after sweeping new laws regulating content on social media seen in the EU came into force under the Digital Services Act''
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/oct/10/eu-warns-elon-musk-over-disinformation-about-hamas-attack-on-x
Will the UK do the same?
Yes Sydney what is your stand on this ?
In Oz you get a free can of Rid Troll Spray when you join X
-
''London vs. New York: How Do They Compare?
New York holds the top spot on the 33rd annual Global Financial Centres Index (GFCI), published by Long Finance in March 2023. It aims to rank the vital roles that different cities play in global finance. London is in second place.
1 However, this hasn't always been the case, with New York ranking below its across-the-pond rival as recently as March 2018.
2 It may seem difficult to quantify the importance of a financial center, but the GFCI ranks the world's major financial cities and evaluates their future competitiveness by analyzing 153 "instrumental factors." These data points include quantitative measures gathered from third parties like the World Bank and the United Nations. The index also accounts for the results of questionnaires asking more than 10,000 respondents around the world to assess different financial centers.
1
Z/Yen Group Ltd. "The Global Financial Centres Index 33."
https://www.investopedia.com/london-vs-new-york-financial-districts-7552437
edit
Note: Even though it is all money, NY and London are leaders in different commodities.
bump
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
The North/South divide has always been with us. Remember the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s? Barely touched us in London. There was still money floating around easily enough. The Tories will always look after the South East. To be fair it should be called the London/everywhere else divide.
-
Something that always really annoyed me about the EU (or the early 90’s version of) was when the Tory government implemented its pit closure programme and the EC at the time were very vocal in their support of it. At the time I wondered what it had to do with them but then it came to light that they were using coal exports as a sweetener to the former Communist countries to join. Where’s the UK had once exported coal to Europe, now it was going to be exported from Eastern Europe. It all began to make sense. I always thought that was really out of order.
And before anyone responds with a load of ‘whataboutery’ I’m not saying it’s necessarily a reason to have left, but it happened and the EU were very happy bed fellows with the Tories at the time.
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
The North/South divide has always been with us. Remember the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s? Barely touched us in London. There was still money floating around easily enough. The Tories will always look after the South East. To be fair it should be called the London/everywhere else divide.
Herbert, just wondering whether there was any difference in circumstances between London (and southeast) and the North between 1997 and 2010.
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
The North/South divide has always been with us. Remember the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s? Barely touched us in London. There was still money floating around easily enough. The Tories will always look after the South East. To be fair it should be called the London/everywhere else divide.
Herbert, just wondering whether there was any difference in circumstances between London (and southeast) and the North between 1997 and 2010.
Course there was Hound and I know exactly what you’re getting at. I did say that the divide has always been with us. However, the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s were under the Tories and they (particularly the 80’s) were when the disparities were most evident to my untrained eyes. The whole reason that I left Donny in 1982 was because I’d been made redundant twice in a year and there seemed to be very little prospect of things getting better quickly. I moved to London and I was naming my own price for work on the building sites.
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
The North/South divide has always been with us. Remember the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s? Barely touched us in London. There was still money floating around easily enough. The Tories will always look after the South East. To be fair it should be called the London/everywhere else divide.
Herbert, just wondering whether there was any difference in circumstances between London (and southeast) and the North between 1997 and 2010.
Course there was Hound and I know exactly what you’re getting at. I did say that the divide has always been with us. However, the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s were under the Tories and they (particularly the 80’s) were when the disparities were most evident to my untrained eyes. The whole reason that I left Donny in 1982 was because I’d been made redundant twice in a year and there seemed to be very little prospect of things getting better quickly. I moved to London and I was naming my own price for work on the building sites.
I remember reading one of your posts a while ago telling everyone about your move to London. Well done with that and I’m glad you are doing well.
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
The North/South divide has always been with us. Remember the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s? Barely touched us in London. There was still money floating around easily enough. The Tories will always look after the South East. To be fair it should be called the London/everywhere else divide.
Herbert, just wondering whether there was any difference in circumstances between London (and southeast) and the North between 1997 and 2010.
Course there was Hound and I know exactly what you’re getting at. I did say that the divide has always been with us. However, the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s were under the Tories and they (particularly the 80’s) were when the disparities were most evident to my untrained eyes. The whole reason that I left Donny in 1982 was because I’d been made redundant twice in a year and there seemed to be very little prospect of things getting better quickly. I moved to London and I was naming my own price for work on the building sites.
I remember reading one of your posts a while ago telling everyone about your move to London. Well done with that and I’m glad you are doing well.
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
Fair point Hound. Although I’m irrelevant to this, my own perception is that the North/South divide is worse than ever. For example, transport connections in London are light years ahead of the North now. This wasn’t always necessarily the case. I’m happy to be proven wrong on this (and I hope that I am) but my sense is that the gaps widened significantly over the past 10 years.
-
New ONS data on local income distribution.
And Selby wants more money in London & The City!!
The greedy capitalists conned you then - and they are still conning you.
https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1712029150205096437
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/smallareamodelbasedincomeestimates/financialyearending2020
The North/South divide has always been with us. Remember the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s? Barely touched us in London. There was still money floating around easily enough. The Tories will always look after the South East. To be fair it should be called the London/everywhere else divide.
Herbert, just wondering whether there was any difference in circumstances between London (and southeast) and the North between 1997 and 2010.
Course there was Hound and I know exactly what you’re getting at. I did say that the divide has always been with us. However, the recessions of the early 80’s and 90’s were under the Tories and they (particularly the 80’s) were when the disparities were most evident to my untrained eyes. The whole reason that I left Donny in 1982 was because I’d been made redundant twice in a year and there seemed to be very little prospect of things getting better quickly. I moved to London and I was naming my own price for work on the building sites.
I remember reading one of your posts a while ago telling everyone about your move to London. Well done with that and I’m glad you are doing well.
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
Fair point Hound. Although I’m irrelevant to this, my own perception is that the North/South divide is worse than ever. For example, transport connections in London are light years ahead of the North now. This wasn’t always necessarily the case. I’m happy to be proven wrong on this (and I hope that I am) but my sense is that the gaps widened significantly over the past 10 years.
Agreed that London transport is better, significantly better because of the tube system.
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
-
Drfchound, it's not only the tube, I can get a bus to local Tesco,,its quicker with a 10 minute walk , we have so many choices how to get around
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
I don't know exactly hound but if you look at the graphs in the article then you will see the trend from 1979 continue through 1997 - 2010. And continue to climb through to 2019.
And of course there are massive differences within regions too.
Johnson was correct in identifying this as a major problem to concentrate on in the 2019 election. Although how serious he really was about actually 'levelling up' rather than it just being a slogan - knowing he lied about most everything else - I guess we will need to wait for the history books to tell us.
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
I don't know exactly hound but if you look at the graphs in the article then you will see the trend from 1979 continue through 1997 - 2010. And continue to climb through to 2019.
And of course there are massive differences within regions too.
Johnson was correct in identifying this as a major problem to concentrate on in the 2019 election. Although how serious he really was about actually 'levelling up' rather than it just being a slogan - knowing he lied about most everything else - I guess we will need to wait for the history books to tell us.
Agreed wilts, as with most things, hindsight tells us most of the answers.
I think it is fair then to say that the 13 year period with Labour in the hot seats didn’t correct the issue of the growing north/ south divide.
This isn’t point scoring by the way (before one of the usual suspects piles in) but just suggesting that it isn’t all down to the post 2010 government.
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
I don't know exactly hound but if you look at the graphs in the article then you will see the trend from 1979 continue through 1997 - 2010. And continue to climb through to 2019.
And of course there are massive differences within regions too.
Johnson was correct in identifying this as a major problem to concentrate on in the 2019 election. Although how serious he really was about actually 'levelling up' rather than it just being a slogan - knowing he lied about most everything else - I guess we will need to wait for the history books to tell us.
Agreed wilts, as with most things, hindsight tells us most of the answers.
I think it is fair then to say that the 13 year period with Labour in the hot seats didn’t correct the issue of the growing north/ south divide.
This isn’t point scoring by the way (before one of the usual suspects piles in) but just suggesting that it isn’t all down to the post 2010 government.
Hindsight may tell us answers hound - but history books tell us what happened in times past.
You also stated that things were no worse in 2010 then they are now. Which is incorrect - the north/south divide is bigger now than it was in 2010.
Your assertion that Labour in power did nothing to correct this needs explaining as to whether or not they actually set out to address it in the first place. Saying they should have done - that's hindsight. My memory is that they attempted to address inequality within regions rather than between them.
The Johnson government certainly said that 'levelling up' was an objective.
If you want something to 'put it down to' then that would be the 1980's Thatcher government. Making the south richer and the north poorer was a specific aim of Thatcher. Reversing that damage in a 21st century world is a lot easier said than done. As Johnson found out.
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
I don't know exactly hound but if you look at the graphs in the article then you will see the trend from 1979 continue through 1997 - 2010. And continue to climb through to 2019.
And of course there are massive differences within regions too.
Johnson was correct in identifying this as a major problem to concentrate on in the 2019 election. Although how serious he really was about actually 'levelling up' rather than it just being a slogan - knowing he lied about most everything else - I guess we will need to wait for the history books to tell us.
Agreed wilts, as with most things, hindsight tells us most of the answers.
I think it is fair then to say that the 13 year period with Labour in the hot seats didn’t correct the issue of the growing north/ south divide.
This isn’t point scoring by the way (before one of the usual suspects piles in) but just suggesting that it isn’t all down to the post 2010 government.
Hindsight may tell us answers hound - but history books tell us what happened in times past.
You also stated that things were no worse in 2010 then they are now. Which is incorrect - the north/south divide is bigger now than it was in 2010.
Your assertion that Labour in power did nothing to correct this needs explaining as to whether or not they actually set out to address it in the first place. Saying they should have done - that's hindsight. My memory is that they attempted to address inequality within regions rather than between them.
The Johnson government certainly said that 'levelling up' was an objective.
If you want something to 'put it down to' then that would be the 1980's Thatcher government. Making the south richer and the north poorer was a specific aim of Thatcher. Reversing that damage in a 21st century world is a lot easier said than done. As Johnson found out.
I did not say that things were no worse in 2010 than they are now.
Neither did I say that Labour in power did nothing to address the difference.
You are misrepresenting me.
-
What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
I don't know exactly hound but if you look at the graphs in the article then you will see the trend from 1979 continue through 1997 - 2010. And continue to climb through to 2019.
And of course there are massive differences within regions too.
Johnson was correct in identifying this as a major problem to concentrate on in the 2019 election. Although how serious he really was about actually 'levelling up' rather than it just being a slogan - knowing he lied about most everything else - I guess we will need to wait for the history books to tell us.
Agreed wilts, as with most things, hindsight tells us most of the answers.
I think it is fair then to say that the 13 year period with Labour in the hot seats didn’t correct the issue of the growing north/ south divide.
This isn’t point scoring by the way (before one of the usual suspects piles in) but just suggesting that it isn’t all down to the post 2010 government.
Hindsight may tell us answers hound - but history books tell us what happened in times past.
You also stated that things were no worse in 2010 then they are now. Which is incorrect - the north/south divide is bigger now than it was in 2010.
Your assertion that Labour in power did nothing to correct this needs explaining as to whether or not they actually set out to address it in the first place. Saying they should have done - that's hindsight. My memory is that they attempted to address inequality within regions rather than between them.
The Johnson government certainly said that 'levelling up' was an objective.
If you want something to 'put it down to' then that would be the 1980's Thatcher government. Making the south richer and the north poorer was a specific aim of Thatcher. Reversing that damage in a 21st century world is a lot easier said than done. As Johnson found out.
You got some facts to back up that allegation or does objective truth only work in the other direction.
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What I was getting at is that things are possibly no worse now with the North / South divide than it has been under previous governments.
It's about 4 times worse now (& growing) than in 1979. Mostly down to the closure of manufacturing jobs in the north & midlands and the concentration of financial service jobs in London & the south east. Which was Thatcher's intention.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/election-2019-how-britains-north-south-divide-is-changing/
Wilts, my original question was about the period 1997 to 2010.
I’m genuinely interested to know.
I don't know exactly hound but if you look at the graphs in the article then you will see the trend from 1979 continue through 1997 - 2010. And continue to climb through to 2019.
And of course there are massive differences within regions too.
Johnson was correct in identifying this as a major problem to concentrate on in the 2019 election. Although how serious he really was about actually 'levelling up' rather than it just being a slogan - knowing he lied about most everything else - I guess we will need to wait for the history books to tell us.
Agreed wilts, as with most things, hindsight tells us most of the answers.
I think it is fair then to say that the 13 year period with Labour in the hot seats didn’t correct the issue of the growing north/ south divide.
This isn’t point scoring by the way (before one of the usual suspects piles in) but just suggesting that it isn’t all down to the post 2010 government.
Hindsight may tell us answers hound - but history books tell us what happened in times past.
You also stated that things were no worse in 2010 then they are now. Which is incorrect - the north/south divide is bigger now than it was in 2010.
Your assertion that Labour in power did nothing to correct this needs explaining as to whether or not they actually set out to address it in the first place. Saying they should have done - that's hindsight. My memory is that they attempted to address inequality within regions rather than between them.
The Johnson government certainly said that 'levelling up' was an objective.
If you want something to 'put it down to' then that would be the 1980's Thatcher government. Making the south richer and the north poorer was a specific aim of Thatcher. Reversing that damage in a 21st century world is a lot easier said than done. As Johnson found out.
I recollect visiting my cousin in Cambridge several times between 2005 and 2010 and all she did was moan about the complete lack of funding in the South and Labour pumping vast amounts of money in to the North!
I kept stumpth as I was on a nice little earner at Yorks and Humber regional Office!
When the coalition got in the first thing they did was shut down GO London and all of the other non job doms they had setup !, there were a lot of folks running around like Rabbits caught in a Cars headlights, losing their 50k a year non Jobs, having to weigh in their Chelsea Tractors, take the kids out of private schools and cancel the Skying holiday and summer Disney world hol as well,’one colleague asked for a dumbed down CV so they could apply for a check out job at WHSmith.
There were thousands of people in Government non jobs taking the pish, I think there were 7 neighbourhood managers in the Borough all on £100k and they all used to get an annual bonus
Of 24 k for ‘Reducing Crime!’ It was laughable, as I was seconded I merely changed roles! I recollect having a fall out with the idiot in Doncaster town centre as he couldn’t even sort out piss alley between Hallgate and Wood street!
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That's AI for you I guess
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https://news.sky.com/story/gdp-uk-overtakes-france-and-germany-as-economic-growth-bigger-than-expected-after-covid-12972101
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Small businesses have said thing have been worse in terms of trade since leaving the EU and specifically the single market.
Personally I don't think people knew what they were voting for but more so thinking that we would be able to leave and do as we want which doesn't always work out like that.
I do believe that people need to better understand the impacts of Brexit, more negative than positive.
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Small businesses have said thing have been worse in terms of trade since leaving the EU and specifically the single market.
Personally I don't think people knew what they were voting for but more so thinking that we would be able to leave and do as we want which doesn't always work out like that.
I do believe that people need to better understand the impacts of Brexit, more negative than positive.
You mean there have been positives?
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Small businesses have said thing have been worse in terms of trade since leaving the EU and specifically the single market.
Personally I don't think people knew what they were voting for but more so thinking that we would be able to leave and do as we want which doesn't always work out like that.
I do believe that people need to better understand the impacts of Brexit, more negative than positive.
You mean there have been positives?
Looks like we will soon be joined by the Netherlands,they are currently the third largest contributor after the Germans 25 € billions French 12 € billions, then they wade in with 6.9 € billions
Followed by Italy with 3 € billions, good grief Belgium skimming away €3 billions (no wonder Brussels was not happy when we went) looks like the French will have to increase the Retirement age again!
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Small businesses have said thing have been worse in terms of trade since leaving the EU and specifically the single market.
Personally I don't think people knew what they were voting for but more so thinking that we would be able to leave and do as we want which doesn't always work out like that.
I do believe that people need to better understand the impacts of Brexit, more negative than positive.
You mean there have been positives?
Looks like we will soon be joined by the Netherlands,they are currently the third largest contributor after the Germans 25 € billions French 12 € billions, then they wade in with 6.9 € billions
Followed by Italy with 3 € billions, good grief Belgium skimming away €3 billions (no wonder Brussels was not happy when we went) looks like the French will have to increase the Retirement age again!
Wilders is going to have to do a hell of a lot better than the 23.6% of the vote he's just got if he want to win a Nexit referendum.
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That's AI for you I guess
With all due respect Sydney, what would you know about the complexities of driving up or down the A1 when you just have to navigate the road through ‘Wannabeck Creek’?
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That's AI for you I guess
With all due respect Sydney, what would you know about the complexities of driving up or down the A1 when you just have to navigate the road through ‘Wannabeck Creek’?
flattered with all the attention C3po, the best I could do would be to forward some used y-fronts, at a price of course