Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: dickos1 on June 22, 2023, 12:19:51 pm
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Andy giddings:
Understand Doncaster Rovers have been served with a winding up petition by HMRC.
It appears this automatic process follows an 'error' involving the transfer of funds from 1 account to another which I'm assured will be quickly being addressed.
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Why does this keep happening with us? I’m sure this is like the 4th time I have read this.
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Why does this keep happening with us? I’m sure this is like the 4th time I have read this.
Probably an issue with how they've logged allocations of payments on the relevant accounts. If one goes wrong (HMRC do it all the time) you end up out of sync on the rest so it keeps repeating and it only gets seen at the deadline because no sensible person pays until the deadline for payment.
In short HMRC are a bit rubbish and don't care too much for small companies which drfc certainly are.
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Info here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
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This sort of stuff just needs sorting. Whilst we know there is no issue it just attracts negative publicity
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Not the first and definitely won't be the last football club and other business to fall foul of a winning up order being triggered by HMRC.
There ought to be a warning issued first which would eliminate many cases where errors have occurred by either party.
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If I was Drfc tbh I would be kicking.up with hmrc they keep doing it damaging the business etc
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Not the first and definitely won't be the last football club and other business to fall foul of a winning up order being triggered by HMRC.
There ought to be a warning issued first which would eliminate many cases where errors have occurred by either party.
You brush it off that we wont be the first and wont be the last club. Fair enough, I agree.
But I dont recall seeing this pop up as much/often for any other club.
Its now made the BBC sport website and no doubt others.
As redarmi66 says it just needs sorting, are we really just being unlucky every time or is this something we can sort out?
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Where have the club said they hadn't paid it?
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They haven’t said that at all.
Richard, the Finance Director, is an excellent member of the senior management at the club, and has been tremendous at driving the finances enabling the club to offer seriously low ST prices.
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Andy giddings:
Understand Doncaster Rovers have been served with a winding up petition by HMRC.
It appears this automatic process follows an 'error' involving the transfer of funds from 1 account to another which I'm assured will be quickly being addressed.
I’ve just paid for my Season Ticket and parking is a wind up :headbang:
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
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Not the first and definitely won't be the last football club and other business to fall foul of a winning up order being triggered by HMRC.
There ought to be a warning issued first which would eliminate many cases where errors have occurred by either party.
You brush it off that we wont be the first and wont be the last club. Fair enough, I agree.
But I dont recall seeing this pop up as much/often for any other club.
Its now made the BBC sport website and no doubt others.
As redarmi66 says it just needs sorting, are we really just being unlucky every time or is this something we can sort out?
Please see bfyp's post. It is a regular occurance. If you know anyone in business, you will find these issues are not uncommon.
Yes, there maybe a procedural issue for the club to deal with however, it is writ large in the article, it's an admin error so there's no question the club is in trouble.
Unfortunately it seems these orders are triggered by HMRC automatically without prior warning. Nobody is saying they are at fault however I know businessmen who have received notices after payments have been made putting the error in the category "admin error" It works both ways.
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.
It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.
It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.
Your desperate to find negatively on the club and owners.
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
The club stated very quickly No monies are owed to Hmrc ! Nowhere have the club said it hadnt been paid so I aint a clue where you've come up with that one from
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HMRC are way, way behind. They will send reminders when things are due but don't look at post currently for around 40 days. I get regular reminders to pay Stamp Duty for clients, when its already been done and HMRC have misallocated it. We then have to go to the trouble of writing to them and showing them where they need to check. We will then, invariably, get a penalty notice for not responding because its automated after 30 days but they won't see our correspondence for 40. Its a bit of a shambles.
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.
It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.
Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.
It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.
Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?
Only in his or her imagination.
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.
It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.
Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?
Because you get reminders before being hit with a winding up petition !
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
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How many reminders say “Please ignore this if you have already paid”?
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Blaming HMRC doesn't really hold water. The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it and as has been pointed out, this is not the first time.
Getting into this situation more than once suggests poor financial organisation which could extend across the board and the first instance should have prompted change. It causes reputational damage which is not good for the club.
Yeah, HMRC never get anything like this wrong, do they?
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/hmrc-mistakenly-issue-high-court-winding-up-petition-against-doncaster-rovers-3961682
As for your b*llocks about Rovers admitting they haven't paid it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65986720
Research and normal business practice suggests that HMRC don’t take this action “Out of the blue”. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103773. They issue reminders about tax not paid on time.
It is puzzling that the club have not issued an official statement confirming that the PAYE had already been paid if that were the case. I accept that the absence of such a statement does not mean that they had not paid the tax already. What is apparent though, is that the club’s excellent financial department did not appear to have made the effort to sort it out when they got the reminders, rather than let it drift to Court proceedings.
Where has it been confirmed that the club have ignored reminders?
Because you get reminders before being hit with a winding up petition !
....and the money was paid, so they've either a) not needed a reminder and paid unprompted, or b) immediately acted on the first one.
If anything this episode is indicative of the state of HMRC at the minute. They're entirely reactive and reliant on firing out automated reminders and WUPs like party poppers and sorting things out in retrospect. It's a grind dealing with them.
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
How regular? How many times has this happened?
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If you deal with HMRC on a regular basis, you'll know what a f**king nightmare they have become. They are chronically short staffed and trying to speak to anyone who knows anything is like trying to get an audience with the Pope.
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
How regular? How many times has this happened?
More than twice, seems like every season.
If I was FD, I'd be making sure it doesn't happen, and if I was Blunt or Baldwin, I'd be reading the riot act to him
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So you would jump to conclusions before knowing all the facts ie where the problem may actually be (with the HMRC).?
Glad I don’t work for you, and I pity anyone who does.
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
How regular? How many times has this happened?
More than twice, seems like every season.
If I was FD, I'd be making sure it doesn't happen, and if I was Blunt or Baldwin, I'd be reading the riot act to him
How many times though, specifically?
I can recall twice. Last year when HMRC somehow broke the habit of the lifetime and admitted it was entirely their mistake, and this occasion which probably wouldn't have happened if they had anyone left capable of a basic receipt analysis.
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
This just shows what's important to certain people and how much 'fun' they seem to have with perverting the actual situation at the club.
Personally I'd rather support the FD who balances the books and finds the funds to ensure that DRFC supporters can have some of the cheapest season tickets in the whole of the EFL, and at a time that the playing budget has been increased substantially. If that's laughable then I'm more than happy to support the FD that delivers something that has true value, rather than adopt a childish position like you do.
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Seems to me like there are two people on this thread doing their best to be as negative as they can towards the club, but failing miserably
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Seems to me like there are two people on this thread doing their best to be as negative as they can towards the club, but failing miserably
They say a leopard never changes its spots, in this case posters adopt the same position they always do even if they register under a different name. #pathetic
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If you deal with HMRC on a regular basis, you'll know what a f**king nightmare they have become. They are chronically short staffed and trying to speak to anyone who knows anything is like trying to get an audience with the Pope.
Absolutely this. I do the finances for our company and having to deal with HMRC is an absolute nightmare.
Bane of my live when I have to ring them
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At work we recently received a reply to our letter from HMRC. The reply said that they hope to give a full reply before September 2024!!!!
They are short staffed by thousands. Last year an HMRC employee apologised for how long the system was taking as they are still using Windows XP.
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It seems some posters want to ignore those of us who deal with HMRC frequently in our businesses with this kind of stuff.
Some just don't want to accept the truth unfortunately.
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It is interesting that when this happens to other clubs, no one on here springs to their defence.
This thread is an example of speculation about facts which could be clarified by a simple statement by the club. SM could ask the club rather than pitching in without seemingly having sought an official statement. Presumably members of the Shadow Board also have appropriate access.
Where the fault lies is not a matter that is decided by a majority vote on here. HMRC is probably less popular than Boris.
People may not believe me, but I would be pleased to learn that no fault lies with the club.
I did not think that alternative opinions were forbidden.
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
This just shows what's important to certain people and how much 'fun' they seem to have with perverting the actual situation at the club.
Personally I'd rather support the FD who balances the books and finds the funds to ensure that DRFC supporters can have some of the cheapest season tickets in the whole of the EFL, and at a time that the playing budget has been increased substantially. If that's laughable then I'm more than happy to support the FD that delivers something that has true value, rather than adopt a childish position like you do.
If you say so fella, I personally prefer to step back and look at the bigger picture, instead if being another sycophant.
But you do you, and I'll take solace in knowing this board and the views on it are but a tiny fraction of the fan base.
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It is interesting that when this happens to other clubs, no one on here springs to their defence.
This thread is an example of speculation about facts which could be clarified by a simple statement by the club. SM could ask the club rather than pitching in without seemingly having sought an official statement. Presumably members of the Shadow Board also have appropriate access.
Where the fault lies is not a matter that is decided by a majority vote on here. HMRC is probably less popular than Boris.
People may not believe me, but I would be pleased to learn that no fault lies with the club.
I did not think that alternative opinions were forbidden.
You're choosing to ignore facts and offering an alternative opinion.
Which other clubs were issued with Winding up petitions in recent history?
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It is interesting that when this happens to other clubs, no one on here springs to their defence.
This thread is an example of speculation about facts which could be clarified by a simple statement by the club. SM could ask the club rather than pitching in without seemingly having sought an official statement. Presumably members of the Shadow Board also have appropriate access.
Where the fault lies is not a matter that is decided by a majority vote on here. HMRC is probably less popular than Boris.
People may not believe me, but I would be pleased to learn that no fault lies with the club.
I did not think that alternative opinions were forbidden.
Hello, it seems your original facts (because in your first post you knew exactly who was to blame and why) has now suddenly become mere speculation!
And then not only that, but it's also somebody else's fault that you were spouting that BS!
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
This just shows what's important to certain people and how much 'fun' they seem to have with perverting the actual situation at the club.
Personally I'd rather support the FD who balances the books and finds the funds to ensure that DRFC supporters can have some of the cheapest season tickets in the whole of the EFL, and at a time that the playing budget has been increased substantially. If that's laughable then I'm more than happy to support the FD that delivers something that has true value, rather than adopt a childish position like you do.
If you say so fella, I personally prefer to step back and look at the bigger picture, instead if being another sycophant.
But you do you, and I'll take solace in knowing this board and the views on it are but a tiny fraction of the fan base.
Taking a step back and looking at the big picture is another way of saying I don't speak to the club and I have no idea what's going on! Jog on!
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It's becoming a regular occurrence this, how anyone can describe the FD as being excellent is simply laughable.
This just shows what's important to certain people and how much 'fun' they seem to have with perverting the actual situation at the club.
Personally I'd rather support the FD who balances the books and finds the funds to ensure that DRFC supporters can have some of the cheapest season tickets in the whole of the EFL, and at a time that the playing budget has been increased substantially. If that's laughable then I'm more than happy to support the FD that delivers something that has true value, rather than adopt a childish position like you do.
If you say so fella, I personally prefer to step back and look at the bigger picture, instead if being another sycophant.
But you do you, and I'll take solace in knowing this board and the views on it are but a tiny fraction of the fan base.
And I take an even greater amount of solace that you're but a miniscule fraction of this board and the views on it..
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I've worked for a couple of public sector organisations (not HMRC) and they are consistently rubbish at pretty much everything. If HMRC are anything similar, they'll have poor staff numbers, inadequate IT, and bloated and inefficient processes.
I imagine this happens with other clubs that we don't follow closely enough to notice.
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It is interesting that when this happens to other clubs, no one on here springs to their defence.
This thread is an example of speculation about facts which could be clarified by a simple statement by the club. SM could ask the club rather than pitching in without seemingly having sought an official statement. Presumably members of the Shadow Board also have appropriate access.
Where the fault lies is not a matter that is decided by a majority vote on here. HMRC is probably less popular than Boris.
People may not believe me, but I would be pleased to learn that no fault lies with the club.
I did not think that alternative opinions were forbidden.
s
You are quite obviously ignoring the fact the club made a statement immediately that Drfc do not owe Hmrc any monies try looking at the facts!
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Strange when everyone, including the press, the club, fans with first hand experience of dealing with HMRC, our own fans representative who has direct contact with our Finance Director, ALL assure us it’s an error and there's nothing to worry about, yet it seems some choose to continue to worry.
It's OK. Nothing bad is going to happen to our beloved football club. There are other things we can turn our attention to. Football!!!!
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If there has been a statement direct from the club on the Official site I must have missed it. All I have seen is the BBC piece. “Doncaster Rovers have told the BBC that an "administrative error" is the explanation for a winding-up petition being lodged by His Majesty's Revenue and Customs [HMRC].”
They do not say it is an error by HMRC.
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If there has been a statement direct from the club on the Official site I must have missed it. All I have seen is the BBC piece. “Doncaster Rovers have told the BBC that an "administrative error" is the explanation for a winding-up petition being lodged by His Majesty's Revenue and Customs [HMRC].”
They do not say it is an error by HMRC.
Im sure if you keep harping on you can squeeze another page out of this, Jesus!
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The original info seems to be on Twitter from the Radio Sheffield Sports Editor which reads as follows
“Andy Giddings 12:18 pm · 22 Jun 2023
@SportGids1
Understand Doncaster Rovers have been served with a winding up petition by HMRC.
It appears this automatic process follows an 'error' involving the transfer of funds from 1 account to another which I'm assured will be quickly being addressed.”
I am obviously seen as deeply prejudiced, but to me this reads as an error on the part of the club, otherwise they would have surely made a point of absolving themselves.
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:zzz: Kin Yawn!!!!
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The original info seems to be on Twitter from the Radio Sheffield Sports Editor which reads as follows
“Andy Giddings 12:18 pm · 22 Jun 2023
@SportGids1
Understand Doncaster Rovers have been served with a winding up petition by HMRC.
It appears this automatic process follows an 'error' involving the transfer of funds from 1 account to another which I'm assured will be quickly being addressed.”
I am obviously seen as deeply prejudiced, but to me this reads as an error on the part of the club, otherwise they would have surely made a point of absolving themselves.
Jesus, no one cares.
Just look forward to the start of an exciting season ahead!
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If there has been a statement direct from the club on the Official site I must have missed it. All I have seen is the BBC piece. “Doncaster Rovers have told the BBC that an "administrative error" is the explanation for a winding-up petition being lodged by His Majesty's Revenue and Customs [HMRC].”
They do not say it is an error by HMRC.
The club have admitted that they hadn't paid it
So, which one of your weasel words is true then?
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It was seemingly an innocent error by the club and no doubt they have taken steps to ensure it won’t happen again which is good.
I am sorry that delving into the detail has upset so many people.
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It was seemingly an innocent error by the club and no doubt they have taken steps to ensure it won’t happen again which is good.
I am sorry that delving into the detail has upset so many people.
What has upset people isn't you delving into detail, it's you ignoring detail and then making shit up.
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He wouldn’t let it lie, Bob.!