Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 19, 2023, 05:33:49 pm

Title: Richard wood
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 19, 2023, 05:33:49 pm
Sorry but I'm struggling to see what he offers at all, he has looked rubbish in all the games I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: glosterred on August 19, 2023, 05:35:18 pm
What’s he good for, absolutely fook all. Disappointing to say the least of what I’ve seen of him so far. Slow, cumbersome to say the least


COYR
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: bpoolrover on August 19, 2023, 05:35:52 pm
While i agree , he has made far less mistakes than olowu who has been shocking
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Fal on August 19, 2023, 05:36:25 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: glosterred on August 19, 2023, 05:37:55 pm
While i agree , he has made far less mistakes than olowu who has been shocking

The back four are nothing to write home about that’s for sure


COYR
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 19, 2023, 05:39:18 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Filo on August 19, 2023, 05:39:58 pm
Cart horse!
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 19, 2023, 05:45:03 pm
While i agree , he has made far less mistakes than olowu who has been shocking

Tend to agree though I thought oluwu was excellent first half he was terrible the second. He's just not consistent.

Nothing to lose giving Faulkner a run.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: glosterred on August 19, 2023, 05:47:21 pm
Is he only playing because Anderson is injured. Might be a reason and it might be a good idea to give Faulkner or Long a start. Don’t think at the moment they could be much worse


COYR
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Donnybax on August 19, 2023, 05:47:30 pm
Over the course of a season olowu is going to cost you a lot of goals, no matter what level he’s playing at it. His concentration is awful and he makes so many howlers
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: TonySoprano on August 19, 2023, 05:51:15 pm
Absolutely awful cart horse who should be out on his ear
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Copps is Magic on August 19, 2023, 05:53:18 pm
Tides turned here... I was ridiculed  pre-season for suggesting this was a daft signing.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on August 19, 2023, 05:53:49 pm
Was pleased when we signed Wood but not impressed so far very slow
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Prez on August 19, 2023, 05:54:42 pm
Been poor so far, which is frustrating because he came with such high praise from Millers and journalists. Olowu however has been an absolute car crash in the league games. Defending and distribution, just awful.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Copps is Magic on August 19, 2023, 05:58:14 pm
Agreed. The sad thing is the one who should be dropped is Olowu. His best option is Anderson-Wood with Faulkner as back up.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: TonySoprano on August 19, 2023, 06:09:09 pm
Olowu and faulkner for me
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: jamesrover17 on August 19, 2023, 06:12:58 pm
Anderson Faulkner I think, current partnership clearly doesn’t work
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 19, 2023, 06:22:47 pm
Butler was our best defender dropped a league to scunny and they were rubbish. Think he struggled that season too. This looks familiar
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 19, 2023, 06:53:53 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?

Just a coincidence that the only competive game we have won so far this season he wasn't playing then?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Deeping Red on August 19, 2023, 06:56:53 pm
Wood makes Anderson  look like prime Virgil Van Dijk
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Barmby Rover on August 19, 2023, 07:05:22 pm
Doncaster Rovers, the place where old footballers retire and die (as footballers). How many over the last three/four seasons? 4? 5? Do we count Tommy Rowe amongst them?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 19, 2023, 07:08:11 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?

Just a coincidence that the only competive game we have won so far this season he wasn't playing then?
What on earth has that got to do with what I said?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 19, 2023, 07:09:16 pm
He's been poor and he certainly doesn't seem to have that positive influence we hoped for, particularly on Olowu.

There's no hiding the fact Joe's all over the place at the mo but neither of them seem to pick up players on crosses and just ball watch.

Then to add to that, when you need your keeper to relieve some pressure by taking some high balls, he's not there which just adds to all the uncertainty in the box.

It's not a good recipe.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 19, 2023, 07:10:58 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?

Just a coincidence that the only competive game we have won so far this season he wasn't playing then?
What on earth has that got to do with what I said?

It is an answer to your question. The best defensive performance so far this season has come in the only game Richard Wood wasn't playing.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: DRFCTom on August 19, 2023, 07:11:29 pm
Wood and Anderson for me (slow maybe) but anyone remember a certain pairing of McCombe and Jones
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: StocksArmy on August 19, 2023, 07:16:29 pm
Leader? Pfffft the difference between him and when we signed Rob Jones is chalk and cheese. Its the problem weve had at the club since that era. Theres a voice in the dressing room and a bas@rd on the pitch demanding better from his mates. And then theres Wood who cant have a voice because he doesnt lead by that example. Olowu is purely there for pace because he is not a footballer otherwise. GM is massively to blame for all of this. He hasnt identified how poor they are and i dint know how.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: ncRover on August 19, 2023, 07:17:35 pm
Wood and Anderson for me (slow maybe) but anyone remember a certain pairing of McCombe and Jones

The game has moved on. Even at this level.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Branton Red on August 19, 2023, 07:18:43 pm
When people claimed Wood to be another 'Corporal' Jones type figure I presumed they meant Rob Jones.

A strong leader, winner of headers, rugged centre half, threat in the opposition box.

Sadly they appear to have mean the actual Corporal Jones.

Volunteering for tasks he's clearly not up to anymore, slow on his feet, slow reactions with many farcical and shambolic implications (in Rovers penalty area).

Don't panic Mr Olowu! Don't panic! Oh you already have.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: GazLaz on August 19, 2023, 07:22:02 pm
He’s been part of a shocking team. I think Jaap Stam would look poor in this team.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Rovers91 on August 19, 2023, 07:33:42 pm
I think the non existent midfield is the massive problem.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: RoversInSpain on August 19, 2023, 07:48:55 pm
Crosses again! We could have the best midfield in the world but when a team puts in an average cross into our box we are a 3 year shambles.
There’s two ways this is going to go for Woody, he realises lge 2 is actually pretty decent and he wakes up and becomes a force or it’s a Tomlin retirement job.
How is Younger doing? Olowu has to go, absolutely dreadful yet again with a geographic problem combined with a feet in concrete problem, absolutely dreadful defender and has been for a long time (defensive record will prove that)
Anderson, Wood when awake or a rejuvenated Younger plus Faulkner.
Please not Long. Quite frankly if it were remotely possible, I’d get rid of all the central defenders (barring Faulkner) and start again.

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 19, 2023, 07:50:08 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?

Just a coincidence that the only competive game we have won so far this season he wasn't playing then?
What on earth has that got to do with what I said?

It is an answer to your question. The best defensive performance so far this season has come in the only game Richard Wood wasn't playing.
The question was, "How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad."

I answered, "I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?"

What on earth has my suggestion that he might have been less vulnerable with better players around him got to do with a Rovers performance in which he never even played?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 19, 2023, 07:54:06 pm
How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad
I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?

Just a coincidence that the only competive game we have won so far this season he wasn't playing then?
What on earth has that got to do with what I said?

It is an answer to your question. The best defensive performance so far this season has come in the only game Richard Wood wasn't playing.
The question was, "How on earth did he play in the championship last season??? He is shockingly bad."

I answered, "I wonder if it has owt to do with the players around him?"

What on earth has my suggestion that he might have been less vulnerable with better players around him got to do with a Rovers performance in which he never even played?

If you don't like the answer to the question being is Richard Wood looking bad because of the players around him being those players looked better when he wasn't playing - then that's your problem.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 19, 2023, 08:11:23 pm
It seems you're the one with the problem Wilts, that being you having to resort to switching forums in order to start an argument.


Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: selby on August 19, 2023, 09:37:02 pm
  Faulkner is our best defender and a danger in the opposition's box from set pieces, and as my friend pointed out today, both goals he scored last season were first time shots not headers which is unusual for central defenders, he had a towering header at Northampton ruled out for a foul.
   Totally misused and ignored this season in spite of obvious problems in front of our eyes.
    We have only defended well for seventy minutes at Hull, even there we were shocking the first twenty minutes
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 19, 2023, 09:37:23 pm
It seems you're the one with the problem Wilts, that being you having to resort to switching forums in order to start an argument.




You are the one starting an argument. I answered your question - now you keep questioning me about it. Again if you don't like my answers - that's your problem.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: scawsby steve on August 19, 2023, 09:49:54 pm
I think it's time young Faulkner was at least given a chance.

Let's be honest, he hasn't got to be brilliant to be an improvement on what we've seen so far.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: drfcsteve on August 19, 2023, 09:50:03 pm
Something seemed off that he would drop from the Championship to league 2, even at his age. Seems Rotherham knew what they were doing getting rid.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: donnievic on August 19, 2023, 09:51:46 pm
Not helped with no midfield infront of him
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: GazLaz on August 19, 2023, 09:57:26 pm
Something seemed off that he would drop from the Championship to league 2, even at his age. Seems Rotherham knew what they were doing getting rid.

He had options but wanted to stay local as his kids are at school.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: NickDRFC on August 19, 2023, 10:00:02 pm
He’s been part of a shocking team. I think Jaap Stam would look poor in this team.

Probably, he must be in his 50s now.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: belton rover on August 19, 2023, 10:01:06 pm
I’ve put of writing this because I so wanted Wood to be the colossus we need. I can’t comment on today’s game because I’m away and couldn’t go, but I noticed in both the Harrogate and Mansfield games him chatting and laughing with opposing players when waiting for defending corners.
I would have no issue with this if he was putting in the performances, but he hasn’t, which makes me wonder if his head and and heart is really up for this.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 19, 2023, 10:01:21 pm
It seems you're the one with the problem Wilts, that being you having to resort to switching forums in order to start an argument.




You are the one starting an argument. I answered your question - now you keep questioning me about it. Again if you don't like my answers - that's your problem.
You never answered my question. You just asked a silly question in response to mine.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 19, 2023, 10:26:53 pm
Probably too early to make the call but I said in summer if you sign the older lads you could get a Rob Jones or you could get a Richard Naylor. Unclear yet where we will end up.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Goole Rover on August 19, 2023, 10:33:27 pm
Anderson Faulkner I think, current partnership clearly doesn’t work
Yes and a lot on here gave Anderson some stick, clearly the best central defender we have.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 19, 2023, 11:10:42 pm
Olowu and faulkner for me

That, at least this season, would be a disaster. Each of them could be good with an adult next to them, but both together would not be pretty.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Donny Exile in York on August 19, 2023, 11:15:46 pm
Wood played in a 3 at Rotherham.. we don't play a 3 any longer so.why sign a slow 38 year old who doesn't fit the new managers system..  a shambles recruitment wise and the blame is at the door of the recruitment team and overseeing the entire club, the Chairman..Time he goes.  Blunt out asap.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: grayx on August 19, 2023, 11:20:15 pm
I think it's time young Faulkner was at least given a chance.

Let's be honest, he hasn't got to be brilliant to be an improvement on what we've seen so far.
Agree.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 19, 2023, 11:21:04 pm
It may be wrong but I heard that Wood was going to be signed by Schofield and Copps, long before McCann came back.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on August 20, 2023, 02:43:50 am
So far it’s looking like Wood, is like that boxing champion, that has one fight too many. Olowu has the attention span of a goldfish. McCann so far has talked a good game but has shown very little in how he is going to, go about building a top side for this division. Two of the things we most lack in the side are heart and intelligence. We lack aggression, we are the Swiss military of league two.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Filo on August 20, 2023, 07:59:10 am
The problem Olowu has is that he’s not only playing his own position, he’s looking out for when he has to cover for Wood’s lack of pace, Wood is the problem
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Rovers91 on August 20, 2023, 08:09:30 am
Probably too early to make the call but I said in summer if you sign the older lads you could get a Rob Jones or you could get a Richard Naylor. Unclear yet where we will end up.

When we got Jones he had a midfield in front of him that offered protection whether that be Keegan or Furman and our midfield was resilient. Our midfield at minute is wide open and losing the battle every week and teams are walking through us which is exposing Wood more. Don't get me wrong Wood needs to be performing better than he is but if we had a better midfield in front of him one that was more resilient and knew how to keep possession of the ball we wouldn't be having this conversation about him I don't think.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 20, 2023, 08:29:48 am
It seems you're the one with the problem Wilts, that being you having to resort to switching forums in order to start an argument.




You are the one starting an argument. I answered your question - now you keep questioning me about it. Again if you don't like my answers - that's your problem.
You never answered my question. You just asked a silly question in response to mine.

I gave a complete answer to your question - with evidence. If you don't like it - that's your problem.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 20, 2023, 08:32:29 am
I think it's time young Faulkner was at least given a chance.

Let's be honest, he hasn't got to be brilliant to be an improvement on what we've seen so far.

It does seem strange that on one hand McCann complains that the team he picked lacks fitness and aggression. Yet he leaves the fittest and most aggressive defender out?

They must be a lot different in training to what they are in matches.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 20, 2023, 09:06:24 am
It seems you're the one with the problem Wilts, that being you having to resort to switching forums in order to start an argument.




You are the one starting an argument. I answered your question - now you keep questioning me about it. Again if you don't like my answers - that's your problem.
You never answered my question. You just asked a silly question in response to mine.

I gave a complete answer to your question - with evidence. If you don't like it - that's your problem.
No, you didn't, but then I'm used to that with you, and I'm not going to provide you with a motive for straying from your usual hunting ground to spout your rubbish on this forum.

 I'll just ignore you.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: mushRTID on August 20, 2023, 09:09:14 am
It’s in the highlights but wood made a ridiculous pass from the left back position into central midfield which got cut out, they broke and should have scored. It was a terrible pass and everybody saw what he was going to do.

I don’t see it with him.

Rotherham fans were basically saying “he will drag you up”. Not what we need on current evidence.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: The Beast on August 20, 2023, 09:16:47 am
I watch Richard Wood and I feel like getting my boots back out, he’s as stiff as a board. To be fair to him though I don’t think our full backs are much cop, Senior looks suspect, every time he gets the ball blasts it aimlessly down the line and our midfield is woeful, Tommy Rowe is carrying so much muscle but is now too old to carry it around the pitch, he’s 2 yards off the pace, a bigger concern to me than Richard Wood.
I always knew that if things didn’t start swimmingly, people would remember where Wood came from and make him the scapegoat.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: mushRTID on August 20, 2023, 09:19:27 am
I watch Richard Wood and I feel like getting my boots back out, he’s as stiff as a board. To be fair to him though I don’t think our full backs are much cop, Senior looks suspect, every time he gets the ball blasts it aimlessly down the line and our midfield is woeful, Tommy Rowe is carrying so much muscle but is now too old to carry it around the pitch, he’s 2 yards off the pace, a bigger concern to me than Richard Wood.
I always knew that if things didn’t start swimmingly, people would remember where Wood came from and make him the scapegoat.

Absolutely nothing to do with where he’s come from.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on August 20, 2023, 09:22:04 am
On what we’ve seen so far we have to pick Bobby preferably with Anderson
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: colincramb on August 20, 2023, 09:22:18 am
Not to try and sound like a Jonny come lately, but I never really thought he was brilliant when he was in his prime. We tore him many a new arsehole when he was at Wednesday all those years back.

It’s a problem we didn’t need. A counter argument could be that he’s playing with worse players than at any point in his career and this probably isn’t helping him.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: DRFCTom on August 20, 2023, 09:27:47 am
Improve the midfield protection and cut olowu’s stupid mistakes out and we’ll kick on imo.
Time for Bobby to shine
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: The Beast on August 20, 2023, 09:33:46 am
I watch Richard Wood and I feel like getting my boots back out, he’s as stiff as a board. To be fair to him though I don’t think our full backs are much cop, Senior looks suspect, every time he gets the ball blasts it aimlessly down the line and our midfield is woeful, Tommy Rowe is carrying so much muscle but is now too old to carry it around the pitch, he’s 2 yards off the pace, a bigger concern to me than Richard Wood.
I always knew that if things didn’t start swimmingly, people would remember where Wood came from and make him the scapegoat.

Absolutely nothing to do with where he’s come from.
So why are we singling him out in performances where the whole team has been absolutely turgid. No centre half could look good behind that midfield, they can’t keep possession so we spend the entire game defending. Richard Wood is a ‘head it and kick it’ centre half, we all knew that, we’re getting totally outplayed football wise, every team in League 2 can play a bit now, we’re playing 80’s football, pinging it to the channel and trying to win the second ball, it doesn’t work.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 20, 2023, 09:35:20 am
Opposing teams seem to anticipate play better than us, and therefore intercept the ball more frequently. This can result in a perfectly good ball becoming, instead, a stray pass.

Perhaps, in Wood's case, he's more used to having more alert, clever, and intelligent players around him from his Rotherham days, and is struggling to adapt to his new environment.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: idler on August 20, 2023, 09:42:54 am
Notts County we’re far better off the ball than us. Their movement meant the player in possession always had a couple of options. By comparison how many times were our players in possession quickly closed down by one or two opponents?
They looked to have at least two extra players most of the time.
We were outthought, outfought and outrun.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 20, 2023, 10:09:05 am
To be fair notts county have had 2/3 years learning how this manager wants to play. Obviously not long ago they were struggling much more than we are and a few years of stability has got them to this.
We seem to be giving our manager 4 games before we’re writing him and his team off
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: jmt23 on August 20, 2023, 10:14:56 am
You naturally have to be very good off the ball to be a passing team, something we have been absolutely dreadful at for a few years now.

We were ok in the first half, we were patient, aggressive in the challenge and picked our battles. It wasn’t until a very basic free kick routine, found JO sleeping that they ever looked like scoring- they looked bang average and passive up until that point

I can’t comment about the second half,my son wanted some food  so I was stuck in a queue for over 30 mins, I missed their goals.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on August 20, 2023, 10:17:53 am
To be fair notts county have had 2/3 years learning how this manager wants to play. Obviously not long ago they were struggling much more than we are and a few years of stability has got them to this.
We seem to be giving our manager 4 games before we’re writing him and his team off

Whilst I agree with this it is also obvious from the GM interview that the players aren’t putting into practice what the manager wants ie sprints/pressing etc. without wanting to harp back to dark times these are fundamentals
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: GazLaz on August 20, 2023, 10:26:41 am
We are playing in a way (and it’s been the same for a few years) that whoever isn’t in the team is “better” than those in it.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 20, 2023, 11:05:03 am
To be fair notts county have had 2/3 years learning how this manager wants to play. Obviously not long ago they were struggling much more than we are and a few years of stability has got them to this.
We seem to be giving our manager 4 games before we’re writing him and his team off

Literally no-one is writing off McCann or the team.

You seem to have a problem with anyone, anytime making evidence-based criticisms and you blow them up into big black and white arguments.

Have a look at what people actually say and respond or don't respond to that. Give it a rest with these arguments against people who don't exist.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: mushRTID on August 20, 2023, 11:10:49 am
To be fair notts county have had 2/3 years learning how this manager wants to play. Obviously not long ago they were struggling much more than we are and a few years of stability has got them to this.
We seem to be giving our manager 4 games before we’re writing him and his team off

Literally no-one is writing off McCann or the team.

You seem to have a problem with anyone, anytime making evidence-based criticisms and you blow them up into big black and white arguments.

Have a look at what people actually say and respond or don't respond to that. Give it a rest with these arguments against people who don't exist.

Dickos has always exaggerated his points to try and belittle others. Not going to change now.

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: mushRTID on August 20, 2023, 11:15:16 am
We are playing in a way (and it’s been the same for a few years) that whoever isn’t in the team is “better” than those in it.

I agree with this.
And it feels because we have a lot of players of similar ability who don’t make enough impact when they play.
I said last year when we signed Lavery, Lakin etc that we had a squad full of “squad players”.

Time will tell with this group but I hope some start to take things by the scruff of the neck and make their places in the team their own.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 20, 2023, 11:21:58 am
Remember a few weeks ago when everyone thought we'd make a "statement signing"? :laugh:

There's still a future million+ asset in Josh Martin available for free.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 20, 2023, 11:32:25 am
To be fair notts county have had 2/3 years learning how this manager wants to play. Obviously not long ago they were struggling much more than we are and a few years of stability has got them to this.
We seem to be giving our manager 4 games before we’re writing him and his team off

Literally no-one is writing off McCann or the team.

You seem to have a problem with anyone, anytime making evidence-based criticisms and you blow them up into big black and white arguments.

Have a look at what people actually say and respond or don't respond to that. Give it a rest with these arguments against people who don't exist.

I think you need to get your head out your arse and read what people are saying both on here and social media.
Plenty are laying into mccann, his selection, his signings, the board, etc etc
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 20, 2023, 11:45:35 am
And once again Dickos, you are conflating justified criticism with "writing off".

Simple questions. Do you think, on balance, we have been very poor in out first 4 league matches? And do you think it is unreasonable to discuss that?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 20, 2023, 11:49:21 am
It seems you're the one with the problem Wilts, that being you having to resort to switching forums in order to start an argument.




You are the one starting an argument. I answered your question - now you keep questioning me about it. Again if you don't like my answers - that's your problem.
You never answered my question. You just asked a silly question in response to mine.

I gave a complete answer to your question - with evidence. If you don't like it - that's your problem.
No, you didn't, but then I'm used to that with you, and I'm not going to provide you with a motive for straying from your usual hunting ground to spout your rubbish on this forum.

 I'll just ignore you.

'usual hunting ground' - what a load of b*llocks from the forums' favourite troll.

Only you thinking it is the players around Richard Wood making him look bad tells us everything we need to know about your opinions.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 20, 2023, 11:54:40 am
I was more suggesting that better players (at Rotherham) making him look good.

Dipstick.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 20, 2023, 11:56:09 am
I was more suggesting that better players (at Rotherham) making him look good.

Dipstick.

Feed the trolls and they will bore. Even when they are 'ignoring you'!
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: GazLaz on August 20, 2023, 12:04:29 pm
We are playing in a way (and it’s been the same for a few years) that whoever isn’t in the team is “better” than those in it.

I agree with this.
And it feels because we have a lot of players of similar ability who don’t make enough impact when they play.
I said last year when we signed Lavery, Lakin etc that we had a squad full of “squad players”.

Time will tell with this group but I hope some start to take things by the scruff of the neck and make their places in the team their own.

What within the process of identifying players has improved in 6 months to go from signing players like Lavery to being able to identify good players? Nothing I’d say.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Lesonthewest on August 20, 2023, 12:06:34 pm
To be fair notts county have had 2/3 years learning how this manager wants to play. Obviously not long ago they were struggling much more than we are and a few years of stability has got them to this.
We seem to be giving our manager 4 games before we’re writing him and his team off

Literally no-one is writing off McCann or the team.

You seem to have a problem with anyone, anytime making evidence-based criticisms and you blow them up into big black and white arguments.

Have a look at what people actually say and respond or don't respond to that. Give it a rest with these arguments against people who don't exist.

He can't do it. I haven't read one post where someone is writing us off after 4 games. If you are being realistic, it's negative. If he doesn't like what you say he resorts to childish personal jibes. If you comment on the current game or team, he harps back to when O'Driscoll was here blah blah blah.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BigH on August 20, 2023, 12:10:30 pm
We are playing in a way (and it’s been the same for a few years) that whoever isn’t in the team is “better” than those in it.
The perils of a journeyman squad eh!
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 20, 2023, 12:12:18 pm
And once again Dickos, you are conflating justified criticism with "writing off".

Simple questions. Do you think, on balance, we have been very poor in out first 4 league matches? And do you think it is unreasonable to discuss that?

Here are just a few of your overly negative drivel posted over the last few days

2 divisions off the required standard

No idea where we go from here

No better than last season

Baileys passing like going back to 1975

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 20, 2023, 12:13:28 pm
Think Dickos is getting excited he might get to do the whole argue for argument sake thing early this year.

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 12:17:00 pm
Whatever motivations people might or might not have, when they have been saying the last 3 years how terrible it has all been and how bad we look, they have been proved objectively correct.

Being “negative” can also be being “right”.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 20, 2023, 12:23:42 pm
Look at the direction of the club the last 3 seasons. Negative is just a reflection of the results/performances.

Would be weird if people are been negative when we are well in the playoffs but that’s not really what’s happening.

The point I worry about is when this performance level becomes acceptable and apathy sets in again. The club did the right thing to lift everyone in the summer by bringing in a very good manager and making moves in the market. Would be a shame if it doesn’t work out
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: pib on August 20, 2023, 12:39:40 pm
I was more suggesting that better players (at Rotherham) making him look good.

Dipstick.

He played in a back 3 at Rotherham too which is a very different system to what we’ve been playing.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on August 20, 2023, 01:04:01 pm
The overreaction on here, and on other threads is incredible. Last season everyone on this board was crying out for a new manager and a new team. We’ve got both. The pay off for those significant changes though is that it takes time for everything bed into place. It’s completely unrealistic to expect things to change quickly, so far this season we’ve played 5 competitive games. We’ve looked good in one, ok in one and poor in three. It’s disappointing, of course it is, yet probably more realistic than some expectations on here. We need patience rather than a meltdown.

Also, in the 1980/81 season we lost 4, drew 1 and won 1 of our first 6 competitive games. We ended the season being promoted.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 20, 2023, 01:31:57 pm
The overreaction on here, and on other threads is incredible. Last season everyone on this board was crying out for a new manager and a new team. We’ve got both. The pay off for those significant changes though is that it takes time for everything bed into place. It’s completely unrealistic to expect things to change quickly, so far this season we’ve played 5 competitive games. We’ve looked good in one, ok in one and poor in three. It’s disappointing, of course it is, yet probably more realistic than some expectations on here. We need patience rather than a meltdown.

Also, in the 1980/81 season we lost 4, drew 1 and won 1 of our first 6 competitive games. We ended the season being promoted.

Sense at last
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on August 20, 2023, 04:49:34 pm
Put Faulkner at the side of Wood with Long, take Olowu out of the defence and have him as a holding midfielder with either Rowe or Bailey.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 07:02:57 pm
Not sure that’s ever going to be matched Sammy as a tactical suggestion. Extraordinary.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 20, 2023, 07:54:40 pm
Back in the day maybe putting centre half’s in midfield would solve a problem but unless they are brilliant on the ball like a Stones type it’s just not a solution in the game now.

Is Olowu going to take a ball in a tight spot and turn out or even know who is around him. It’s one thing at the back because everyone is ahead of you. In the middle you’ve to be so much quicker in thought and then gave the touch to do it.

Personally I’d want us to coach the midfielders we have to play how we need before we try to coach a defender to play in midfield.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 07:57:34 pm
Olowu as a holding midfield player would be an absolute disaster, pretty much beyond anything seen in association football since the game was invented.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 20, 2023, 08:01:00 pm
Olowu as a holding midfield player would be an absolute disaster, pretty much beyond anything seen in association football since the game was invented.

I know where you're coming from. But then again, I saw Billy Stubbs and John McGinley both play up from for us.

And Jordi Hiwula come to that.

So I wouldn't rule it out.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Goole Rover on August 20, 2023, 10:39:28 pm
You naturally have to be very good off the ball to be a passing team, something we have been absolutely dreadful at for a few years now.

We were ok in the first half, we were patient, aggressive in the challenge and picked our battles. It wasn’t until a very basic free kick routine, found JO sleeping that they ever looked like scoring- they looked bang average and passive up until that point

I can’t comment about the second half,my son wanted some food  so I was stuck in a queue for over 30 mins, I missed their goals.
Spot on County were and are bang average.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: ChrisBx on August 20, 2023, 11:30:00 pm
What's the situation with Adam Long?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 11:41:20 pm
Fit but out of favour I think.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on August 21, 2023, 08:33:56 am
If we are holding Long up as a solution then we are doomed
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Grumps on August 22, 2023, 10:38:46 am
Are you playing Woody in a flat back 4?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: steve@dcfd on August 22, 2023, 11:20:38 am
Are you playing Woody in a flat back 4?
Yes with attacking fullbacks and poor midfield
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 22, 2023, 11:23:26 am
What could possibly go wrong...
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Grumps on August 22, 2023, 10:03:15 pm
Are you playing Woody in a flat back 4?
Yes with attacking fullbacks and poor midfield

Oh
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 22, 2023, 10:05:37 pm
Almost like he was signed by a different manager who planned to play him a different way
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: StocksArmy on August 24, 2023, 09:09:58 pm
The overreaction on here, and on other threads is incredible. Last season everyone on this board was crying out for a new manager and a new team. We’ve got both. The pay off for those significant changes though is that it takes time for everything bed into place. It’s completely unrealistic to expect things to change quickly, so far this season we’ve played 5 competitive games. We’ve looked good in one, ok in one and poor in three. It’s disappointing, of course it is, yet probably more realistic than some expectations on here. We need patience rather than a meltdown.

Also, in the 1980/81 season we lost 4, drew 1 and won 1 of our first 6 competitive games. We ended the season being promoted.

Its not about the results though. Its the performances. We are being outrun and that isnt something you can teach people. Its the basics of football. Olowu has made continuous ridiculous mistakes under 4 managers now. Whilst the team gels we cant afford that. Wood has been made captain and has shown no signs of leading by example. Thats a fact. We dont have tenacity in midfield, another fact. The players who are injured dont have it either. There are ways of being beaten that a supporter can accept as they can see progression. I think anybody who has watched 4 of the 5 games we have played are lying if they say they are confident that this current squad is good enough for a top 7 finish this season. You cant say its an overreaction when people are calling it for what it is. Posters saying how good we were against Hull and had genuine excitement, was that an overreaction as well? Or was it seen as though it was obvious that we played fantastically well and credit was given when credit was due? Because I cant see how people can say we were fantasic and that be fine, and the same people say we were sh!t after our 3rd defeat in 4 and be told they have a lack of knowledge and that they are giving a kneejerk reaction.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on August 25, 2023, 10:19:38 am
The overreaction on here, and on other threads is incredible. Last season everyone on this board was crying out for a new manager and a new team. We’ve got both. The pay off for those significant changes though is that it takes time for everything bed into place. It’s completely unrealistic to expect things to change quickly, so far this season we’ve played 5 competitive games. We’ve looked good in one, ok in one and poor in three. It’s disappointing, of course it is, yet probably more realistic than some expectations on here. We need patience rather than a meltdown.

Also, in the 1980/81 season we lost 4, drew 1 and won 1 of our first 6 competitive games. We ended the season being promoted.

Its not about the results though. Its the performances. We are being outrun and that isnt something you can teach people. Its the basics of football. Olowu has made continuous ridiculous mistakes under 4 managers now. Whilst the team gels we cant afford that. Wood has been made captain and has shown no signs of leading by example. Thats a fact. We dont have tenacity in midfield, another fact. The players who are injured dont have it either. There are ways of being beaten that a supporter can accept as they can see progression. I think anybody who has watched 4 of the 5 games we have played are lying if they say they are confident that this current squad is good enough for a top 7 finish this season. You cant say its an overreaction when people are calling it for what it is. Posters saying how good we were against Hull and had genuine excitement, was that an overreaction as well? Or was it seen as though it was obvious that we played fantastically well and credit was given when credit was due? Because I cant see how people can say we were fantasic and that be fine, and the same people say we were sh!t after our 3rd defeat in 4 and be told they have a lack of knowledge and that they are giving a kneejerk reaction.

I'll be honest with you fella - I can't work out what you're talking about and I think that you may be missing the point of my post. The point that I am trying to make is this; last season we were so far behind the curve in every single way. Virtually everyone on this forum was crying out for changes in management and players. The Board obviously agreed and made those changes. BUT - where we were then and where we want to be will take some time to change. That's a fact. It's utterly ridiculous to write off a season after 4 games when the footballing infrastructure has changes so much! No Manager in the world, past or present, can build a new team and instantly change things. It's just impossible! We all comment how stupid it is when we see managers fired from jobs after a short amount of time and how patience and time should be given, so what makes us so different! Most of our performances have been poor and some of the players have been poor, but we've seen glimpses of what this team can achieve this season and it's up to the management and the squad to build that consistency but that doesn't happen overnight.

If we are in a similar position by Christmas then I will certainly be worried, but to write off the season before the end of August, given the changes that we've gone through is just madness.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: TonySoprano on August 25, 2023, 10:46:15 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on August 25, 2023, 11:39:50 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: TonySoprano on August 25, 2023, 02:59:39 pm
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: selby on August 25, 2023, 03:56:10 pm
  I can see the reasoning behind people expecting a change of formation, we have been out performed more than once by teams no more if as talented and as good as the players we have signed'
  And not just this season, last season we had players in games better than the oppositions and failed miserably to find a way for our players to play in a system that matched their ability and brought the best out of them.
  Now Richard Wood has rocked up, a great player no doubt about that who flourished in higher levels of football than we play at, when we have come across him he has been a thorn in our side being the big bugger down the centre whose game was centred on being physical, kicking and heading the ball clear of the penalty area and basically just playing the ball forward ASAP.
  Even in the games he has played for us he has shown in odd phases of games he has not lost the skills of heading the ball tackling, and launching the ball forward while giving the other sides strikers something to think about in challengers.
  So what do we do? we give him the ball short to play out, in an area he has always cleared as quick as possible, and the same with others like Anderson, Miller ploughing a lone furrow up top, outnumbered mid field players we ask them to do what they are not good at, and saddle them with players like Close a master of the ten yard reverse pass to a player in a worse defensive position, but his stats look fantastic.
  Its time to find a system the players are comfortable with, and plays to their strengths.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: RoversInSpain on August 25, 2023, 03:57:24 pm
The overreaction on here, and on other threads is incredible. Last season everyone on this board was crying out for a new manager and a new team. We’ve got both. The pay off for those significant changes though is that it takes time for everything bed into place. It’s completely unrealistic to expect things to change quickly, so far this season we’ve played 5 competitive games. We’ve looked good in one, ok in one and poor in three. It’s disappointing, of course it is, yet probably more realistic than some expectations on here. We need patience rather than a meltdown.

Also, in the 1980/81 season we lost 4, drew 1 and won 1 of our first 6 competitive games. We ended the season being promoted.

Its not about the results though. Its the performances. We are being outrun and that isnt something you can teach people. Its the basics of football. Olowu has made continuous ridiculous mistakes under 4 managers now. Whilst the team gels we cant afford that. Wood has been made captain and has shown no signs of leading by example. Thats a fact. We dont have tenacity in midfield, another fact. The players who are injured dont have it either. There are ways of being beaten that a supporter can accept as they can see progression. I think anybody who has watched 4 of the 5 games we have played are lying if they say they are confident that this current squad is good enough for a top 7 finish this season. You cant say its an overreaction when people are calling it for what it is. Posters saying how good we were against Hull and had genuine excitement, was that an overreaction as well? Or was it seen as though it was obvious that we played fantastically well and credit was given when credit was due? Because I cant see how people can say we were fantasic and that be fine, and the same people say we were sh!t after our 3rd defeat in 4 and be told they have a lack of knowledge and that they are giving a kneejerk reaction.

I'll be honest with you fella - I can't work out what you're talking about and I think that you may be missing the point of my post. The point that I am trying to make is this; last season we were so far behind the curve in every single way. Virtually everyone on this forum was crying out for changes in management and players. The Board obviously agreed and made those changes. BUT - where we were then and where we want to be will take some time to change. That's a fact. It's utterly ridiculous to write off a season after 4 games when the footballing infrastructure has changes so much! No Manager in the world, past or present, can build a new team and instantly change things. It's just impossible! We all comment how stupid it is when we see managers fired from jobs after a short amount of time and how patience and time should be given, so what makes us so different! Most of our performances have been poor and some of the players have been poor, but we've seen glimpses of what this team can achieve this season and it's up to the management and the squad to build that consistency but that doesn't happen overnight.

If we are in a similar position by Christmas then I will certainly be worried, but to write off the season before the end of August, given the changes that we've gone through is just madness.
Far too sensible is that. Have a word with yourself, we’re doomed you know
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 25, 2023, 05:36:25 pm
Been crying out for a few years just to get back to basics which is what’s been suggested here. Boils me when we’ve played short from a free kick or goal kick only to have a centre half boot the ball up field under pressure so it is a easy reclaim for the opponent.

It’s not about playing like a tony pulls side its just playing in the right areas and at a decent pace. I’m going to say in L2 comfortably more goals are conceded as a result of playing out from the back than are scored from it.

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 26, 2023, 08:18:50 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.

He hasn’t reiterated your point.
We’ve another 6 games left yet before we’ve played 10.
You can’t write-off a season after 4 games, from the next 6 games we could easily end up with 11-12 points.
Which would mean we’ve been in great form for 6 games, and I imagine we’d be up around halfway.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: selby on August 27, 2023, 10:00:19 am
  After his display in the second half at MK Dons I hope the penny has dropped with this lad for the management. Yesterday in the second half he went central and played 15 to twenty yards each side of the centre of the field, and was great, won headers, had all the game in front of him, and was absolutely solid down the centre of our defence, playing the game his way, the way he has always played getting something on the ball and just defending.
  All we need now is another big strong lad alongside him doing the basics as he did it yesterday, hopefully with more pace and the results will come, and we might stop shipping so many poor goals.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: RoversInSpain on August 27, 2023, 10:44:40 am
  After his display in the second half at MK Dons I hope the penny has dropped with this lad for the management. Yesterday in the second half he went central and played 15 to twenty yards each side of the centre of the field, and was great, won headers, had all the game in front of him, and was absolutely solid down the centre of our defence, playing the game his way, the way he has always played getting something on the ball and just defending.
  All we need now is another big strong lad alongside him doing the basics as he did it yesterday, hopefully with more pace and the results will come, and we might stop shipping so many poor goals.
Totally agree Selby, thought Woody was excellent. And on a couple of occasions beat the forward for pace chasing back. He looked  panic free, with room to take charge of things back there. Possibly because he wasn’t babysitting the flapping Oluwo for the second 45.
More of this please.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on August 27, 2023, 10:53:48 am
  After his display in the second half at MK Dons I hope the penny has dropped with this lad for the management. Yesterday in the second half he went central and played 15 to twenty yards each side of the centre of the field, and was great, won headers, had all the game in front of him, and was absolutely solid down the centre of our defence, playing the game his way, the way he has always played getting something on the ball and just defending.
  All we need now is another big strong lad alongside him doing the basics as he did it yesterday, hopefully with more pace and the results will come, and we might stop shipping so many poor goals.

Anyone in mind Selby
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: TonySoprano on August 27, 2023, 11:06:07 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.

He hasn’t reiterated your point.
We’ve another 6 games left yet before we’ve played 10.
You can’t write-off a season after 4 games, from the next 6 games we could easily end up with 11-12 points.
Which would mean we’ve been in great form for 6 games, and I imagine we’d be up around halfway.

We're 5 games in, with 1 point and a minus 8 goal difference.
Were rock bottom of the football league, our start has been an almighty disaster given most people's expectations this season.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: colincramb on August 27, 2023, 11:51:42 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.

He hasn’t reiterated your point.
We’ve another 6 games left yet before we’ve played 10.
You can’t write-off a season after 4 games, from the next 6 games we could easily end up with 11-12 points.
Which would mean we’ve been in great form for 6 games, and I imagine we’d be up around halfway.

We're 5 games in, with 1 point and a minus 8 goal difference.
Were rock bottom of the football league, our start has been an almighty disaster given most people's expectations this season.


You’re wasting your time. Dickos still thinks we are getting promoted
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 27, 2023, 11:55:13 am
  After his display in the second half at MK Dons I hope the penny has dropped with this lad for the management. Yesterday in the second half he went central and played 15 to twenty yards each side of the centre of the field, and was great, won headers, had all the game in front of him, and was absolutely solid down the centre of our defence, playing the game his way, the way he has always played getting something on the ball and just defending.
  All we need now is another big strong lad alongside him doing the basics as he did it yesterday, hopefully with more pace and the results will come, and we might stop shipping so many poor goals.

Anyone in mind Selby
Alfie May?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: bpoolrover on August 27, 2023, 10:26:06 pm
Thought wood did well today out of the defence he eas easily the best of them
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 27, 2023, 11:30:25 pm
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.

He hasn’t reiterated your point.
We’ve another 6 games left yet before we’ve played 10.
You can’t write-off a season after 4 games, from the next 6 games we could easily end up with 11-12 points.
Which would mean we’ve been in great form for 6 games, and I imagine we’d be up around halfway.

We're 5 games in, with 1 point and a minus 8 goal difference.
Were rock bottom of the football league, our start has been an almighty disaster given most people's expectations this season.


You’re wasting your time. Dickos still thinks we are getting promoted

5 games into a 46 game season.
Beyond belief that people are writing the season off, absolutely bonkers.
Find something else to do with your Saturday afternoon

Last season Stockport got 9 points from their first 10 games and ended up in the playoffs, writing a season off as early as this is pathetic
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: TonySoprano on August 28, 2023, 06:24:32 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.

He hasn’t reiterated your point.
We’ve another 6 games left yet before we’ve played 10.
You can’t write-off a season after 4 games, from the next 6 games we could easily end up with 11-12 points.
Which would mean we’ve been in great form for 6 games, and I imagine we’d be up around halfway.

We're 5 games in, with 1 point and a minus 8 goal difference.
Were rock bottom of the football league, our start has been an almighty disaster given most people's expectations this season.


You’re wasting your time. Dickos still thinks we are getting promoted

5 games into a 46 game season.
Beyond belief that people are writing the season off, absolutely bonkers.
Find something else to do with your Saturday afternoon

Last season Stockport got 9 points from their first 10 games and ended up in the playoffs, writing a season off as early as this is pathetic
I'm not writing the season off, infact I wouldn't be surprised if we finished in the play offs.
But to not accept that the start we have had is a catastrophic nightmare, is pure delusion .
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 28, 2023, 07:55:33 am
I was replying to cramb who seems to think the notion of us having a good season is nothing more than dreamland.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: wilts rover on August 28, 2023, 09:52:49 am
I remember Dean Saunders practically building a new team, it clicked and we know how that season ended.

It can be done.

The concerns right now are real and pertinent.

We're nearly half way to the point when the table starts taking shape ( 10 games) and we're rock bottom of the football league.

Saunders saw us relegated in his first season with us. During the first 10 games of Saunders' second season we won 5, lost 3 and drew 2. I remember us losing at home to Crawley and people calling for his head!

And you're right...we know how that season ended. We need patience and not knee jerk reactions.
Erm, not sure if you meant to but thanks for reiterating my point !

We're not going to get anywhere near 17 points in the first 10 games, and we're in a lower division.

I'd say it's mcanns biggest test in his managerial career, I've got faith he can sort it, but it's going to be f**king tough.

He hasn’t reiterated your point.
We’ve another 6 games left yet before we’ve played 10.
You can’t write-off a season after 4 games, from the next 6 games we could easily end up with 11-12 points.
Which would mean we’ve been in great form for 6 games, and I imagine we’d be up around halfway.

We're 5 games in, with 1 point and a minus 8 goal difference.
Were rock bottom of the football league, our start has been an almighty disaster given most people's expectations this season.


You’re wasting your time. Dickos still thinks we are getting promoted

5 games into a 46 game season.
Beyond belief that people are writing the season off, absolutely bonkers.
Find something else to do with your Saturday afternoon

Last season Stockport got 9 points from their first 10 games and ended up in the playoffs, writing a season off as early as this is pathetic

Last season Rochdale got 5 points from their first 10 games and ended up relegated. Judging Rovers this season by how other teams performed last season is pointless.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 28, 2023, 10:48:58 am
Well it’s not pointless.
It’s just pointing out that the league table is totally irrelevant after 5 games.
Stockport we’re one of the favourites for promotion last year same as us, the Rochdale comparison isn’t the same as they were one of the favourites to go down.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 28, 2023, 03:54:23 pm
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 28, 2023, 04:38:04 pm
Jesus
My point is the league table means nothing after 5 games.
Where were we after 5 games last season, where did we end up?
Where were Stockport after 5 games last season, where did they end up.
Of course some people start poorly and maintain that form but plenty of sides every season have a bad or good start and end the season in opposite form.
It’s nothing ground breaking, I’m not stating something magical.
I’m just pointing out the league table after 5 games doesn’t mean that’s how it’s going to be for another 41 games, try and turn it into an argument if you like but it’s just a fact.
These Examples aren’t unusual counter examples, get a grip, they happen in every league every single season
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 28, 2023, 04:38:17 pm
It also ignores the fact that this isn’t just a poor start to this season. Paul Goodwin made point that we’ve lost 70 of our last 120 league games. This is a club that from top to bottom has if not got used to losing, then it is certainly no stranger. Grant is not just having to deal with a poor start to this season, he has a huge psychological shift to deliver. It’s not easy.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: RoversInSpain on August 28, 2023, 04:51:57 pm
It also ignores the fact that this isn’t just a poor start to this season. Paul Goodwin made point that we’ve lost 70 of our last 120 league games. This is a club that from top to bottom has if not got used to losing, then it is certainly no stranger. Grant is not just having to deal with a poor start to this season, he has a huge psychological shift to deliver. It’s not easy.
Yes exactly this, we do still have quite a lot of players that are still with us and used to losing. Sadly in my mind until they’re all gone we won’t shake it off. Hopefully Grant is with us for a few years to replace the losers and to build a winning mentality. It’s going to take a while.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: scawsby steve on August 28, 2023, 05:44:46 pm
It also ignores the fact that this isn’t just a poor start to this season. Paul Goodwin made point that we’ve lost 70 of our last 120 league games. This is a club that from top to bottom has if not got used to losing, then it is certainly no stranger. Grant is not just having to deal with a poor start to this season, he has a huge psychological shift to deliver. It’s not easy.
Yes exactly this, we do still have quite a lot of players that are still with us and used to losing. Sadly in my mind until they’re all gone we won’t shake it off. Hopefully Grant is with us for a few years to replace the losers and to build a winning mentality. It’s going to take a while.

We haven't got time on our side though. If we lose the floating fans this season, we might never get them back again, especially with the crap league we're in.

Then there's Terry. He'll be 81 next year, and is involved in lots of charities. He won't be with us forever, and when he leaves, unless there's a takeover, we'll be back to the self-sustainable model which is efficient for balancing the books, but pretty ineffective for quality recruitment.

We need to improve quickly over the next few months.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: pib on August 29, 2023, 10:34:15 am
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.

Bit of a stretch to say this example is what "usually" happens in football, if that's what you're implying.

In 2021/22 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Sutton, Oldham and Bristol Rovers.
Oldham went down, Sutton finished 8th, and Bristol Rovers won automatic promotion.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2020/21 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Oldham, Southend and Mansfield*
Southend went down, Oldham finished 18th, Mansfield finished 16th.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.
*Taken Grimsby out of the equation as they'd only played 3 when everyone else had played 5 (presumably due to COVID), and they won games 4 & 5.

I've excluded 2019/20 as this season was decided on PPG.

In 2018/19 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Notts County, Macclesfield and Morecambe.
Notts County went down, Macclesfield finished 22nd and survived, Morecambe finished 18th.
2/3 finished in the bottom 3 (3rd bottom being irrelevant in this point as it meant survival)

In 2017/18 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Forest Green, Port Vale and Cheltenham.
Forest Green finished 21st, Port Vale finished 20th and Cheltenham finished 17th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2016/17 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Cambridge, Exeter and Stevenage.
Cambridge finished 11th, Exeter finished 5th (play-offs) and Stevenage finished 10th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

You get my drift.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: McCammon egg n chips on August 29, 2023, 10:40:43 am
This is massively off topic now, but essentially the above shows usually one side in the bottom 3 after 5 games will get relegated.

It doesn't make for great reading.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: pib on August 29, 2023, 10:52:29 am
This is massively off topic now, but essentially the above shows usually one side in the bottom 3 after 5 games will get relegated.

It doesn't make for great reading.

Well it shows that it happened in 3 out of the last 5 "completed" seasons, yes.

And it shows that statistically quite a significant proportion of teams in the bottom 3 after 5 games end up somewhere in the bottom 1/3 of the table.

And it also shows that it's possible to recover from a start this poor, albeit statistically unlikely (slightly lower than a 1 in 3 chance in this set of historical statistics), and still finish in the top 10.

What it doesn't show is that it's the norm for the bottom 3 after 5 games to finish as the bottom 3.

And it does kind of support dickos' point, providing I understand that point correctly, that history shows that it is more than possible to be in the bottom 3 at this stage and not end up in the bottom 3 or in any real danger of relegation.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 29, 2023, 02:51:17 pm
This is massively off topic now, but essentially the above shows usually one side in the bottom 3 after 5 games will get relegated.

It doesn't make for great reading.

It shows a lot more teams finish higher up the table than remain in the bottom 3
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bentley Bullet on August 29, 2023, 03:01:55 pm
This is massively off topic now, but essentially the above shows usually one side in the bottom 3 after 5 games will get relegated.

It doesn't make for great reading.
It also shows that usually two sides in the bottom 3 after 5 games won't be relegated.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: ForsolongaRover on August 29, 2023, 03:32:58 pm
If you have a bad start it is immediately apparent in your league position and being complacent about it is pretty well indefensible. There is also time to do something about it via the transfer market before the window closes. There is also what might optimistically be seen as the Rovers situation where a newly-assembled squad improves with time.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2023, 05:04:10 pm
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.

Bit of a stretch to say this example is what "usually" happens in football, if that's what you're implying.

In 2021/22 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Sutton, Oldham and Bristol Rovers.
Oldham went down, Sutton finished 8th, and Bristol Rovers won automatic promotion.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2020/21 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Oldham, Southend and Mansfield*
Southend went down, Oldham finished 18th, Mansfield finished 16th.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.
*Taken Grimsby out of the equation as they'd only played 3 when everyone else had played 5 (presumably due to COVID), and they won games 4 & 5.

I've excluded 2019/20 as this season was decided on PPG.

In 2018/19 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Notts County, Macclesfield and Morecambe.
Notts County went down, Macclesfield finished 22nd and survived, Morecambe finished 18th.
2/3 finished in the bottom 3 (3rd bottom being irrelevant in this point as it meant survival)

In 2017/18 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Forest Green, Port Vale and Cheltenham.
Forest Green finished 21st, Port Vale finished 20th and Cheltenham finished 17th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2016/17 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Cambridge, Exeter and Stevenage.
Cambridge finished 11th, Exeter finished 5th (play-offs) and Stevenage finished 10th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

You get my drift.

To be fair, it would be truly extraordinary if the sides in the bottom 3 after 5 games frequently were in the bottom 3 after 46 games.

The real question is: do sides that start off the season badly often find their feet and do well overall? Dickos is suggesting that there's nothing to be gained by looking at the table this early, and if that were true, you'd expect the answer to that question to be "yes".

In fact, in the past 10 seasons at this level, only three sides have been in the bottom 4 after 5 games and finished in the top 7 (Exeter  in 2016/17, Stockport last year, Bristol Rovers 21/22). The evidence strongly points to the conclusion that teams that start off the season badly do so because they are really not very good. There IS the odd example of a team being the exception to that rule, but you wouldn't be advised to lump money on it happening.

We MIGHT be that rare exception this year. But I've honestly seen nothing in any of our league matches so far to make me think that is likely.

EDIT. Data corrected - I was looking at wrong tables for some seasons. Conclusion is the same.

EDIT 2: D'oh. I typed "after 10 games" when I meant 5. For clarity, the data does correspond to the bottom four after 5 games.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: drfchound on August 29, 2023, 05:08:56 pm
You have moved the goalposts though bst.
You are now talking about the bottom four after ten games when everyone else is talking about the bottom three after just five games.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: pib on August 29, 2023, 05:29:49 pm
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.

Bit of a stretch to say this example is what "usually" happens in football, if that's what you're implying.

In 2021/22 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Sutton, Oldham and Bristol Rovers.
Oldham went down, Sutton finished 8th, and Bristol Rovers won automatic promotion.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2020/21 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Oldham, Southend and Mansfield*
Southend went down, Oldham finished 18th, Mansfield finished 16th.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.
*Taken Grimsby out of the equation as they'd only played 3 when everyone else had played 5 (presumably due to COVID), and they won games 4 & 5.

I've excluded 2019/20 as this season was decided on PPG.

In 2018/19 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Notts County, Macclesfield and Morecambe.
Notts County went down, Macclesfield finished 22nd and survived, Morecambe finished 18th.
2/3 finished in the bottom 3 (3rd bottom being irrelevant in this point as it meant survival)

In 2017/18 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Forest Green, Port Vale and Cheltenham.
Forest Green finished 21st, Port Vale finished 20th and Cheltenham finished 17th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2016/17 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Cambridge, Exeter and Stevenage.
Cambridge finished 11th, Exeter finished 5th (play-offs) and Stevenage finished 10th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

You get my drift.

To be fair, it would be truly extraordinary if the sides in the bottom 3 after 5 games frequently were in the bottom 3 after 46 games.

The real question is: do sides that start off the season badly often find their feet and do well overall? Dickos is suggesting that there's nothing to be gained by looking at the table this early, and if that were true, you'd expect the answer to that question to be "yes".

In fact, in the past 10 seasons at this level, only three sides have been in the bottom 4 after 10 games and finished in the top 7 (Exeter  in 2016/17, Stockport last year, Bristol Rovers 21/22). The evidence strongly points to the conclusion that teams that start off the season badly do so because they are really not very good. There IS the odd example of a team being the exception to that rule, but you wouldn't be advised to lump money on it happening.

We MIGHT be that rare exception this year. But I've honestly seen nothing in any of our league matches so far to make me think that is likely.

EDIT. Data corrected - I was looking at wrong tables for some seasons. Conclusion is the same.

If we're in the bottom 3 after 10 games then yes, let's have this discussion and probably draw these conclusions.

I think we're talking about something different here now, but I think what you posted initially about last year's bottom 3 was an "unusual counter example" of the sort you accused dickos of making.

Plus (please correct me if wrong) but I don't think Dickos (or any others) in this thread have actually said they think we're odds-on to make the top 7 after our poor start (which is the barometer of improvement you are using here), just that there is an OK chance that our league position will improve.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2023, 05:41:22 pm
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.

Bit of a stretch to say this example is what "usually" happens in football, if that's what you're implying.

In 2021/22 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Sutton, Oldham and Bristol Rovers.
Oldham went down, Sutton finished 8th, and Bristol Rovers won automatic promotion.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2020/21 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Oldham, Southend and Mansfield*
Southend went down, Oldham finished 18th, Mansfield finished 16th.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.
*Taken Grimsby out of the equation as they'd only played 3 when everyone else had played 5 (presumably due to COVID), and they won games 4 & 5.

I've excluded 2019/20 as this season was decided on PPG.

In 2018/19 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Notts County, Macclesfield and Morecambe.
Notts County went down, Macclesfield finished 22nd and survived, Morecambe finished 18th.
2/3 finished in the bottom 3 (3rd bottom being irrelevant in this point as it meant survival)

In 2017/18 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Forest Green, Port Vale and Cheltenham.
Forest Green finished 21st, Port Vale finished 20th and Cheltenham finished 17th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2016/17 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Cambridge, Exeter and Stevenage.
Cambridge finished 11th, Exeter finished 5th (play-offs) and Stevenage finished 10th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

You get my drift.

To be fair, it would be truly extraordinary if the sides in the bottom 3 after 5 games frequently were in the bottom 3 after 46 games.

The real question is: do sides that start off the season badly often find their feet and do well overall? Dickos is suggesting that there's nothing to be gained by looking at the table this early, and if that were true, you'd expect the answer to that question to be "yes".

In fact, in the past 10 seasons at this level, only three sides have been in the bottom 4 after 10 games and finished in the top 7 (Exeter  in 2016/17, Stockport last year, Bristol Rovers 21/22). The evidence strongly points to the conclusion that teams that start off the season badly do so because they are really not very good. There IS the odd example of a team being the exception to that rule, but you wouldn't be advised to lump money on it happening.

We MIGHT be that rare exception this year. But I've honestly seen nothing in any of our league matches so far to make me think that is likely.

EDIT. Data corrected - I was looking at wrong tables for some seasons. Conclusion is the same.

If we're in the bottom 3 after 10 games then yes, let's have this discussion and probably draw these conclusions.

I think we're talking about something different here now, but I think what you posted initially about last year's bottom 3 was an "unusual counter example" of the sort you accused dickos of making.

Plus (please correct me if wrong) but I don't think Dickos (or any others) in this thread have actually said they think we're odds-on to make the top 7 after our poor start (which is the barometer of improvement you are using here), just that there is an OK chance that our league position will improve.

Pib. See above. That "10 games" was a typo by me. The data is actually about teams in the bottom 4 after 5 games. Apologies for the confusion.

And I know no-one is saying we are odds on to finish highly. Dickos is consistently saying though that the table after 5 games means nothing.

I disagree.

The great majority of sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games have poor seasons. Over the past 10 years, there have been 40 sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games; their average end of season position has been 18th.

100% have not finished in the top 3 at the end of the season
92.5% have not finished in the top 7.
90% have not finished in the top 10.
77.5% have not finished in the top half.

That tells me that the bottom of the table after 5 games says rather a lot.

I fervently hope that we break the usual rule this year.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 29, 2023, 06:02:47 pm
Carry on like we are and it wouldn’t surprise me to see GM either walking or being sacked.

If he stays, the only thing that could see us not relegated, is a good January ‘window’.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: McCammon egg n chips on August 29, 2023, 06:06:48 pm
If you have a bad start it is immediately apparent in your league position and being complacent about it is pretty well indefensible. There is also time to do something about it via the transfer market before the window closes. There is also what might optimistically be seen as the Rovers situation where a newly-assembled squad improves with time.

This is 100% it.

We're bottom of the football league and desperately need a win. And looking at the games ahead it's really difficult to see where it's coming from. Honestly is worrying.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 29, 2023, 06:39:59 pm
Thankfully only the bottom 2 go down from League Two, so we only need to find 2 other sides worse than us. There are several candidates. Although as it stands the position of safety is 3x more points than we currently have.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: scawsby steve on August 29, 2023, 07:49:55 pm
So in what, according to the board, is supposed to be a promotion push season, people are now taking solace in the fact that we probably won't be relegated.

Jesus wept. Bye bye floating fans.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 29, 2023, 11:15:56 pm
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.

Bit of a stretch to say this example is what "usually" happens in football, if that's what you're implying.

In 2021/22 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Sutton, Oldham and Bristol Rovers.
Oldham went down, Sutton finished 8th, and Bristol Rovers won automatic promotion.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2020/21 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Oldham, Southend and Mansfield*
Southend went down, Oldham finished 18th, Mansfield finished 16th.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.
*Taken Grimsby out of the equation as they'd only played 3 when everyone else had played 5 (presumably due to COVID), and they won games 4 & 5.

I've excluded 2019/20 as this season was decided on PPG.

In 2018/19 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Notts County, Macclesfield and Morecambe.
Notts County went down, Macclesfield finished 22nd and survived, Morecambe finished 18th.
2/3 finished in the bottom 3 (3rd bottom being irrelevant in this point as it meant survival)

In 2017/18 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Forest Green, Port Vale and Cheltenham.
Forest Green finished 21st, Port Vale finished 20th and Cheltenham finished 17th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2016/17 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Cambridge, Exeter and Stevenage.
Cambridge finished 11th, Exeter finished 5th (play-offs) and Stevenage finished 10th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

You get my drift.

To be fair, it would be truly extraordinary if the sides in the bottom 3 after 5 games frequently were in the bottom 3 after 46 games.

The real question is: do sides that start off the season badly often find their feet and do well overall? Dickos is suggesting that there's nothing to be gained by looking at the table this early, and if that were true, you'd expect the answer to that question to be "yes".

In fact, in the past 10 seasons at this level, only three sides have been in the bottom 4 after 10 games and finished in the top 7 (Exeter  in 2016/17, Stockport last year, Bristol Rovers 21/22). The evidence strongly points to the conclusion that teams that start off the season badly do so because they are really not very good. There IS the odd example of a team being the exception to that rule, but you wouldn't be advised to lump money on it happening.

We MIGHT be that rare exception this year. But I've honestly seen nothing in any of our league matches so far to make me think that is likely.

EDIT. Data corrected - I was looking at wrong tables for some seasons. Conclusion is the same.

If we're in the bottom 3 after 10 games then yes, let's have this discussion and probably draw these conclusions.

I think we're talking about something different here now, but I think what you posted initially about last year's bottom 3 was an "unusual counter example" of the sort you accused dickos of making.

Plus (please correct me if wrong) but I don't think Dickos (or any others) in this thread have actually said they think we're odds-on to make the top 7 after our poor start (which is the barometer of improvement you are using here), just that there is an OK chance that our league position will improve.

Pib. See above. That "10 games" was a typo by me. The data is actually about teams in the bottom 4 after 5 games. Apologies for the confusion.

And I know no-one is saying we are odds on to finish highly. Dickos is consistently saying though that the table after 5 games means nothing.

I disagree.

The great majority of sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games have poor seasons. Over the past 10 years, there have been 40 sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games; their average end of season position has been 18th.

100% have not finished in the top 3 at the end of the season
92.5% have not finished in the top 7.
90% have not finished in the top 10.
77.5% have not finished in the top half.

That tells me that the bottom of the table after 5 games says rather a lot.

I fervently hope that we break the usual rule this year.

Billy you've just said no side in the last 10 years have been in the bottom 4 after 5 games and then gone onto finish in the top 3.
Bristol rovers did exactly that the season before last. So I’m afraid your stats are wrong
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2023, 11:26:22 pm
After 5 games last year, the bottom 3 were Rochdale, Crawley and Hartlepool.

Guess which three sides finished in the bottom three.

Dickos regularly ignores all evidence of what usually happens in football and talks about unusual counter examples.

That's fine. It's OK to be relentlessly optimistic. But then dont lambast anyone who takes a more balanced, measured approach.

Bit of a stretch to say this example is what "usually" happens in football, if that's what you're implying.

In 2021/22 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Sutton, Oldham and Bristol Rovers.
Oldham went down, Sutton finished 8th, and Bristol Rovers won automatic promotion.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2020/21 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Oldham, Southend and Mansfield*
Southend went down, Oldham finished 18th, Mansfield finished 16th.
1/3 finished in the bottom 3.
*Taken Grimsby out of the equation as they'd only played 3 when everyone else had played 5 (presumably due to COVID), and they won games 4 & 5.

I've excluded 2019/20 as this season was decided on PPG.

In 2018/19 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Notts County, Macclesfield and Morecambe.
Notts County went down, Macclesfield finished 22nd and survived, Morecambe finished 18th.
2/3 finished in the bottom 3 (3rd bottom being irrelevant in this point as it meant survival)

In 2017/18 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Forest Green, Port Vale and Cheltenham.
Forest Green finished 21st, Port Vale finished 20th and Cheltenham finished 17th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

In 2016/17 the bottom 3 after 5 games were Cambridge, Exeter and Stevenage.
Cambridge finished 11th, Exeter finished 5th (play-offs) and Stevenage finished 10th.
0/3 finished in the bottom 3.

You get my drift.

To be fair, it would be truly extraordinary if the sides in the bottom 3 after 5 games frequently were in the bottom 3 after 46 games.

The real question is: do sides that start off the season badly often find their feet and do well overall? Dickos is suggesting that there's nothing to be gained by looking at the table this early, and if that were true, you'd expect the answer to that question to be "yes".

In fact, in the past 10 seasons at this level, only three sides have been in the bottom 4 after 10 games and finished in the top 7 (Exeter  in 2016/17, Stockport last year, Bristol Rovers 21/22). The evidence strongly points to the conclusion that teams that start off the season badly do so because they are really not very good. There IS the odd example of a team being the exception to that rule, but you wouldn't be advised to lump money on it happening.

We MIGHT be that rare exception this year. But I've honestly seen nothing in any of our league matches so far to make me think that is likely.

EDIT. Data corrected - I was looking at wrong tables for some seasons. Conclusion is the same.

If we're in the bottom 3 after 10 games then yes, let's have this discussion and probably draw these conclusions.

I think we're talking about something different here now, but I think what you posted initially about last year's bottom 3 was an "unusual counter example" of the sort you accused dickos of making.

Plus (please correct me if wrong) but I don't think Dickos (or any others) in this thread have actually said they think we're odds-on to make the top 7 after our poor start (which is the barometer of improvement you are using here), just that there is an OK chance that our league position will improve.

Pib. See above. That "10 games" was a typo by me. The data is actually about teams in the bottom 4 after 5 games. Apologies for the confusion.

And I know no-one is saying we are odds on to finish highly. Dickos is consistently saying though that the table after 5 games means nothing.

I disagree.

The great majority of sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games have poor seasons. Over the past 10 years, there have been 40 sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games; their average end of season position has been 18th.

100% have not finished in the top 3 at the end of the season
92.5% have not finished in the top 7.
90% have not finished in the top 10.
77.5% have not finished in the top half.

That tells me that the bottom of the table after 5 games says rather a lot.

I fervently hope that we break the usual rule this year.

Billy you've just said no side in the last 10 years have been in the bottom 4 after 5 games and then gone onto finish in the top 3.
Bristol rovers did exactly that the season before last. So I’m afraid your stats are wrong

Yep. Mistake by me. Apologies.

97.5% haven't made the top 3.

 Doesn't change the basic argument. The great majority of sides in the bottom 4 after 5 games are there because they are not very good for the whole season.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: dickos1 on August 30, 2023, 05:42:57 am
Over the last 5 seasons there have been 4 sides that have gone from the bottom 3 after 5 games to finishing the season in the top 10. That’s 4 sides out of 15.
That’s enough evidence to show the season isn’t over after 5 games, which was my only point.
I never suggested most sides did this, I simply stated that it’s nonsense to write a season off after 5 games, as there are sides every year in every league that end the season at the opposite end of the table to where they are after 5 games.
We also proved it last season
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 30, 2023, 05:45:52 am
Being third bottom is irrelevant. The only metric is being in the bottom two. Only the bottom two get relegated. Whatever the relevance of this debate anyway, the metric that should be used is which sides are in bottom two not bottom three.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 30, 2023, 08:20:41 am
What has all the above got to do with Richard Wood (the title of the thread, lest we all forget). Don’t get me wrong, it’s interesting but completely in the wrong place!
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: andy didcott on August 30, 2023, 08:47:41 am
Was gonna say the same last night, I came on here to read about Richard wood and thought sod it and when on to YouTube instead. By the way he had a good game t’other day.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on September 02, 2023, 08:14:46 pm
Totally criticised him after his last home performance but he was excellent today.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 02, 2023, 08:19:35 pm
Excellent today, as we're all the defenders. Ironside was clearly MoM, but I thought Bailey was outstanding too.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Drover on September 02, 2023, 08:56:48 pm
I do wonder if,our defence is better when Wood and Olowu are NOT in the same side,our defense seems to be better when only one or the other are in,or Maybe they just taking longer to get it together.Either way,we are hopefully turning the corner.Im much happier with our last 3 performances than four out of five of the performances previous,despite similar results.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Prez on September 02, 2023, 08:59:02 pm
Thought Senior was very good too.






Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: StocksArmy on September 02, 2023, 09:06:05 pm
I think we are slowly turning a corner. From the Notts County performance to now there has been a big difference. McCann has found a system that will keep us in games, there are players who run hard on the pitch and the effort is clearly there. Just seems like a penny has dropped with the manager and players. We now have to look to be more of a goal threat. Once we crack that, we will need to go on a very good run to catch the front runners. Who knows but we are definitely improving in some areas.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 02, 2023, 09:27:05 pm
I think we are slowly turning a corner. From the Notts County performance to now there has been a big difference. McCann has found a system that will keep us in games, there are players who run hard on the pitch and the effort is clearly there. Just seems like a penny has dropped with the manager and players. We now have to look to be more of a goal threat. Once we crack that, we will need to go on a very good run to catch the front runners. Who knows but we are definitely improving in some areas.

Don't think there's any doubt that the 4-3-3 was Problem No. 1.

We looked far stronger at the back and more able to hold the ball up front with 3-5-2 today.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Canadian Rover on September 02, 2023, 09:32:40 pm
Wood will captain us to promotion.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: drfchound on September 02, 2023, 09:34:42 pm
Him and Tom were a great pairing in the second half.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: DearneValleyRover on September 02, 2023, 09:38:08 pm
I think we always needed at least 8 if not more competitive games with so many new faces
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Iberian Red on September 02, 2023, 10:56:14 pm
Carry on like we are and it wouldn’t surprise me to see GM either walking or being sacked.

If he stays, the only thing that could see us not relegated, is a good January ‘window’.

Was that a knee jerk,or just a jerk reaction?

Wood was solid today,so was Big Tom when he came on.
Towards the end Big Tom threw himself at an attempted shot,quickly followed by another player(can't remember who)
when the ball was cleared Tom had a big hug for him.
Two leaders at the back today
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: ravenrover on September 03, 2023, 09:39:16 am
I think we are slowly turning a corner. From the Notts County performance to now there has been a big difference. McCann has found a system that will keep us in games, there are players who run hard on the pitch and the effort is clearly there. Just seems like a penny has dropped with the manager and players. We now have to look to be more of a goal threat. Once we crack that, we will need to go on a very good run to catch the front runners. Who knows but we are definitely improving in some areas.

Don't think there's any doubt that the 4-3-3 was Problem No. 1.

We looked far stronger at the back and more able to hold the ball up front with 3-5-2 today.
But we played the 2nd half with 4 at the back and still had good chances in the 2nd half with only 10 men?
Let's be right about this we morph from a 4 to a 3 at the back throughout the game we do not play a rigid 3 or a 4 at the back
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on September 03, 2023, 09:45:12 am
Our ability to now play credibly with either 3 or 4 at the back is a major advantage between games and within games.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Grumps on September 06, 2023, 09:49:55 am
Based on his performances for us (Millers) over many years, it's as plain as the nose on your face that Woody can't play in a back 4.  In a back 3 he's a diamond.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: ncRover on September 06, 2023, 09:59:28 am
Our ability to now play credibly with either 3 or 4 at the back is a major advantage between games and within games.

Plus our squad depth. Injuries throughout the season will affect other play off chasing sides such as Stockport and Mansfield more than it will us.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on November 13, 2023, 03:14:42 pm
Remember a few weeks ago when everyone thought we'd make a "statement signing"? :laugh:

There's still a future million+ asset in Josh Martin available for free.

Martin has signed short term deal with Portsmouth, until January.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Colin C No.3 on November 14, 2023, 10:51:40 am
Why did Grant sign Wood AND immediately give him the captains armband?

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: karldew on November 14, 2023, 11:37:31 am
Why did Grant sign Wood AND immediately give him the captains armband?



Maybe because like many of us we thought it was a super signing for league 2, he’s been known as a sh*t house leader who scored goals too. Some Rotherham fans wanted him to sign a new deal in the championship!

Shame it’s not worked out for him BUT, like Anderson he can turn it around and possibly play an important part this season.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Bailey Vickerage on November 14, 2023, 03:10:41 pm
He was good in pre season and everyone said he was out signing of the season, a few bad games at the start and everything slated him saying he was sent to us to send us down lol.

He came back last week and was very good in the first half against Burton and think he will come into the side tonight with Olowu missing.

He’s also had to change styles of play completely since joining. At Rotherham he was always in the middle of a 3 and all he had to do was keep the ball as far away from their goal as possible. He came to us and went into a back 4 two leagues lower and was also asked to be decent on the ball. He was poor at the start of the season but a lot of them were.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: selby on November 14, 2023, 03:14:44 pm
 Collin C No3, Grant probably thought that a player who had built his reputation over a long career on stopping the other teams from playing by being uncompromising in the physical aspects of the game, could head a ball clear, could find the halfway line with clearances, and was a hard b*****d could suddenly start spreading the ball around like Stones and other premiership defenders.
   He can't and none of the others we have can either.
  I can remember an interview on radio Sheffield some years ago in the closed season when Warnock had saved them from relegation, and the interviewer asked what was the main difference in his style of play to before he came to the club, He said Warnock said your not that good at the back but those up front are not bad, when you get the ball just get it forward and let them get the ball you don't need the ball near you, they went on a great run to stay up.

 
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Jimmydee on November 14, 2023, 07:02:44 pm
I’ve just heard an appeal on radio Sheffield from a millers fan for Woody to be their new manager. Sorry millers, he’s playing for us tonight.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: selby on November 14, 2023, 11:02:03 pm
 Sounded like he defended the old fashioned way that he has been good at for years and played very well tonight, just basically defending well.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: drfchound on November 14, 2023, 11:28:49 pm
The commentary team praised him throughout the game.
Not bad that he got through 130 minutes of game time after such a long lay off.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: donnievic on November 15, 2023, 12:11:38 am
He was superb tonight tbf and hardly put a foot wrong,I actually didn’t think he was that bad early season,yes we know he isn’t quick but think it was more how easy teams got through the midfield and left him isolated at times but tonight was shown why he was signed
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on November 15, 2023, 12:15:34 am
Immense tonight as were Nixon, Senior and Bailey
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Campsall rover on November 15, 2023, 01:31:02 am
Also Ironside,& Faal we’re great tonight.
Close Westbrooke, Biggins we’re excellent also as were Maxwell, Bradbent & Molyneux when they came on as subs.
Jones was solid.
Did not need to collect any crosses except ones under is bar.
A very very good 2nd half and extra time.
The best from a Rovers team in years.
We won the physical battle and our football then won the game.
More tackles tonight than I have seen in the last 4 years put together.
Play to that standard every week and we are a top 3 team in this league.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Thorney on November 15, 2023, 04:17:26 am
Wood with Bailey and Senior eitherside of him looks like the setup we should go with for the foreseeable future. Bailey and Senior can be woody's legs while he just does what he's good at.
Bailey and Senior are much less prone to errors like olowu. Anderson too slow and Bobby is just injured, but when fit may then allow Bailey to move into midfield
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Rovers91 on November 15, 2023, 06:30:40 am
Would be more than happy with Bailey, Wood and Senior as our back 3.
Would then hopefully allow for Maxwell more game time on the left.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: roversdude on November 15, 2023, 06:47:41 am
Also Ironside,& Faal we’re great tonight.
Close Westbrooke, Biggins we’re excellent also as were Maxwell, Bradbent & Molyneux when they came on as subs.
Jones was solid.
Did not need to collect any crosses except ones under is bar.
A very very good 2nd half and extra time.
The best from a Rovers team in years.
We won the physical battle and our football then won the game.
More tackles tonight than I have seen in the last 4 years put together.
Play to that standard every week and we are a top 3 team in this league.

Agree with that except Biggins who I thought misplaced so many simple passes. Bringing Moly on was a game changer. He seems to be relishing playing under GM. Hopefully when fully fit Kyle will too
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: NickDRFC on November 15, 2023, 07:05:24 am
Would be more than happy with Bailey, Wood and Senior as our back 3.
Would then hopefully allow for Maxwell more game time on the left.

Fully agree, it lets Wood just concentrate on defending and has two solid, reliable, quick enough players on either side. I’d keep Nixon and Maxwell as the wing backs as well - players suited to it playing in their proper position - with Close, Westbrooke in midfield and Moly given licence to float.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Chris Black come back on November 15, 2023, 07:51:14 am
Tom always seems to come straight back in to the side though.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: NickDRFC on November 15, 2023, 08:30:20 am
Tom always seems to come straight back in to the side though.

We’ve not had the options we have right now at any stage since the early stages of the season. Anderson was also on the bench for the first couple of games. Let’s see but I’m hopeful they’ll get a chance.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: drfchound on November 15, 2023, 09:29:21 am
Also Ironside,& Faal we’re great tonight.
Close Westbrooke, Biggins we’re excellent also as were Maxwell, Bradbent & Molyneux when they came on as subs.
Jones was solid.
Did not need to collect any crosses except ones under is bar.
A very very good 2nd half and extra time.
The best from a Rovers team in years.
We won the physical battle and our football then won the game.
More tackles tonight than I have seen in the last 4 years put together.
Play to that standard every week and we are a top 3 team in this league.

Agree with that except Biggins who I thought misplaced so many simple passes. Bringing Moly on was a game changer. He seems to be relishing playing under GM. Hopefully when fully fit Kyle will too

Moly is like a new signing this season.
Superb going forward, good with both feet and not afraid to try something unusual.
He works his socks off for the team.

Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on November 15, 2023, 09:30:04 am
Wood with Bailey and Senior eitherside of him looks like the setup we should go with for the foreseeable future. Bailey and Senior can be woody's legs while he just does what he's good at.
Bailey and Senior are much less prone to errors like olowu. Anderson too slow and Bobby is just injured, but when fit may then allow Bailey to move into midfield

It's sometimes ironic how the best combinations are found through adversity really. Having hands forced through injuries can be a good thing.

I'm not sure McCann will stick to it as he might see the value of players in other positions, but it's great to have these options at our disposal.

Not too long ago, I can't recall which game, but Olowu was the only recognised centre half on the pitch and he had an exceptional game. I guess it shows the reliance on all team mates to be on their games for things to work well.
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Alan Southstand on November 15, 2023, 09:31:29 am
Another ‘new signing’ not far off a return, is Sterry - remember him?
Title: Re: Richard wood
Post by: Canadian Rover on May 06, 2024, 10:34:44 pm
Wood will captain us to promotion.