Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: andyst79 on August 19, 2023, 09:34:24 pm

Title: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: andyst79 on August 19, 2023, 09:34:24 pm
Other than Ben Whiteman
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: donnievic on August 19, 2023, 09:50:19 pm
Herbie kane
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 19, 2023, 10:27:21 pm
Ben Sheaf.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: In the box on August 19, 2023, 10:33:15 pm
Other than Ben Whiteman
We’ve never got over James Coppinger retiring!!
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: drfchound on August 19, 2023, 10:36:35 pm
Other than Ben Whiteman
We’ve never got over James Coppinger retiring!!

Our ball retention at throw ins had certainly got much worse since Copps retired.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: BigH on August 19, 2023, 10:45:17 pm
Other than Ben Whiteman
We’ve never got over James Coppinger retiring!!
something in that
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Lesonthewest on August 20, 2023, 08:50:04 am
Other than Ben Whiteman
We’ve never got over James Coppinger retiring!!

Our ball retention at throw ins had certainly got much worse since Copps retired.

Noticed this again yesterday, almost everytime County had a throw in it was thrown to a man in space, I can remember only once us finding a player to throw to in space. McCann touched on this a few weeks ago saying it's not acceptable, it hasn't changed.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Sulphurite on August 20, 2023, 09:02:14 am
You seem desperate to throw it into a 50/50 header rather than an easy option.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 20, 2023, 09:28:54 am
Bostock was a decent central midfielder, he just needed pairing with a player that complimented his abilities.

With the Copps thing, we spent a few years not replacing creativity. In the year Copps retired we had him and Taylor Richards creating chances. Since then we've had Tomlin for 5 mins and that's about it. Westbrooke isn't bad tbf but I genuinely thought it'd be a first signing for McCann, to bring in someone on the wing like he had with Coppinger on the left of his front 3.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 20, 2023, 11:53:21 am
Other than Ben Whiteman
We’ve never got over James Coppinger retiring!!

Our ball retention at throw ins had certainly got much worse since Copps retired.

Noticed this again yesterday, almost everytime County had a throw in it was thrown to a man in space, I can remember only once us finding a player to throw to in space. McCann toiched on this a few weeks ago saying it's not acceptable, it hasn't changed.

We've been like that ever since Coppinger retired. It's such a basic thing but we have never addressed it. It's like we say to the players "make it up on the hoof".

And if we let Sotona EVER take another throw in! He did a shocking foul throw that led to Newport's 4th goal. Then yesterday, he threw a ball back to Notts C after an injury break and I swear he let go of it below his waist.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Juddy on August 20, 2023, 12:34:11 pm
Far too late now but Copps could have done one season in lowly league 2 surely ?
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: TheFunk on August 20, 2023, 04:26:30 pm
I don't think Copps would have been prepared to play another season for free or expenses.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 04:36:00 pm
What’s notable is how much not getting promoted, or more realistically, getting relegated costs us. If we had been in Championship a few years ago we could have had Kane, Wilks, Whiteman, Sheaf, Marquis, likely others I have forgotten also, in our squad. We might well still have struggled but we would have had saleable assets.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 20, 2023, 04:55:31 pm
We've had some good midfielders recently but the combinations have been the issue. The loans Galbraith, Matt Smiths v 1 & 2, even Charlie Lakin before you come onto Bostock and Clayton.

As said above, Whiteman was at his best with Sheaf and Kane.

Successive managers have struggled to find the right combinations and been hampered with long term injuries. With constant chopping and changing  we've been found wanting.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 07:09:06 pm
Matt Smith v1 was superb and is now somehow turning out for St Johnstone, who have gates materially smaller than ours.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: scawsby steve on August 20, 2023, 07:14:44 pm
With 2 loan spots still left, the priority must surely be to bring in another midfielder, or maybe even two.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: RoversInSpain on August 20, 2023, 08:10:03 pm
Notts County players took responsibility and wanted the ball knowing where their team mates were and had a way to play. Very few of our guys wanted responsibility all over the pitch but especially in defence where they just looked at each other asking ‘where did he come from?’
I’m hoping most of this is because they don’t know each other’s game enough currently and are hesitant/meak/mild and wanting someone else to take the lead. Who is or are those player/s that will emerge and be the driving force? Once those players are formed we will move forward.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 20, 2023, 08:22:49 pm
With 2 loan spots still left, the priority must surely be to bring in another midfielder, or maybe even two.

Well, if McCann can justify it on the basis of being uncertain about the return of Close and Biggins before the window closes, then it might be possible. There could be a risk he finds himself in Wellens trap and I'm sure the board don't want that to happen. Of course, there are others who he'd like to offload, and then there's the Everton income to throw into the mix, so you'd hope there's some wriggle room.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Lesonthewest on August 20, 2023, 08:37:13 pm
What's Charlie Lakin doing, is he starting games, he would improve our midfield no end, better than what we have.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Chris Black come back on August 20, 2023, 08:46:15 pm
We are very badly missing muscularity and physicality in midfield, the energy and presence to dominate midfield battles for 90 minutes. Lakin was a useful terrier but not what we need. Although what we can get is something different.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Lesonthewest on August 20, 2023, 09:00:06 pm
We are very badly missing muscularity and physicality in midfield, the energy and presence to dominate midfield battles for 90 minutes. Lakin was a useful terrier but not what we need. Although what we can get is something different.

I believe he would link up play & get around the opposition far better than what we have. In the short time they played together I thought he & Close developed a decent understanding, the game at Sutton last season springs to mind.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on August 20, 2023, 09:12:53 pm
What’s happened to Close? Assume injury but do we have an idea when he’s back?

Feel like we had a full squad other than Anderson all preseason then the moment a ball is kicked in anger we’ve a load out!
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 20, 2023, 09:14:39 pm
We are very badly missing muscularity and physicality in midfield, the energy and presence to dominate midfield battles for 90 minutes. Lakin was a useful terrier but not what we need. Although what we can get is something different.

I believe he would link up play & get around the opposition far better than what we have. In the short time they played together I thought he & Close developed a decent understanding, the game at Sutton last season springs to mind.

Careful. You're getting disturbingly near to hinting that Schofield didn't f**k up every single thing he touched. I'm not sure that's allowed here.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: roversdude on August 20, 2023, 09:37:13 pm
We are very badly missing muscularity and physicality in midfield, the energy and presence to dominate midfield battles for 90 minutes. Lakin was a useful terrier but not what we need. Although what we can get is something different.

I believe he would link up play & get around the opposition far better than what we have. In the short time they played together I thought he & Close developed a decent understanding, the game at Sutton last season springs to mind.

The game at Sutton where we did naff all ??

I liked Lakin but not at all convinced with Close
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Lesonthewest on August 20, 2023, 10:26:55 pm
We are very badly missing muscularity and physicality in midfield, the energy and presence to dominate midfield battles for 90 minutes. Lakin was a useful terrier but not what we need. Although what we can get is something different.

I believe he would link up play & get around the opposition far better than what we have. In the short time they played together I thought he & Close developed a decent understanding, the game at Sutton last season springs to mind.

The game at Sutton where we did naff all ??

I liked Lakin but not at all convinced with Close
I'm talking about 2 players having an understanding, not the whole team.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Goole Rover on August 20, 2023, 10:31:08 pm
What’s notable is how much not getting promoted, or more realistically, getting relegated costs us. If we had been in Championship a few years ago we could have had Kane, Wilks, Whiteman, Sheaf, Marquis, likely others I have forgotten also, in our squad. We might well still have struggled but we would have had saleable assets.
Don’t kid yourself Marquis wouldn’t have hacked it in The Championship.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on August 20, 2023, 11:04:55 pm
In this league you need a mix of technique and physicality, we fail in a lot of games because we lack the latter.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: scawsby steve on August 21, 2023, 05:23:54 am
What’s notable is how much not getting promoted, or more realistically, getting relegated costs us. If we had been in Championship a few years ago we could have had Kane, Wilks, Whiteman, Sheaf, Marquis, likely others I have forgotten also, in our squad. We might well still have struggled but we would have had saleable assets.
Don’t kid yourself Marquis wouldn’t have hacked it in The Championship.

He didn't say he would. He said he, along with the others, would have been a saleable asset, which he would have been.

What is it with you and Marquis? Isn't 60 odd goals in 3 seasons enough for you, or do you prefer the likes of Cukur, Dodoo, and Hiwula?
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Bessie Red on August 21, 2023, 10:28:50 am
Jordan Houghton was decent!
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: The Beast on August 21, 2023, 10:43:37 am
John Bostock looked like a player on Saturday, with competence around him anyway, didn’t have the luxury in his time here.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 21, 2023, 12:13:07 pm
We are very badly missing muscularity and physicality in midfield, the energy and presence to dominate midfield battles for 90 minutes. Lakin was a useful terrier but not what we need. Although what we can get is something different.

I believe he would link up play & get around the opposition far better than what we have. In the short time they played together I thought he & Close developed a decent understanding, the game at Sutton last season springs to mind.

I keep hearing this but what was muscular and physical about how Notts Co, Mansfield and Newport moved the ball with efficiency and accuracy?

Plus all three goals on Saturday were scored, not by big brute centre forwards outmuscling our defenders, but by intelligent play using the space available, getting on the end of inviting crosses.

I would say the biggest factors missing from our game at the moment are iintelligence and guile. 
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 21, 2023, 12:37:00 pm
John Bostock looked like a player on Saturday, with competence around him anyway, didn’t have the luxury in his time here.

I'd like to have seen how he perforned against Sutton on the opening day of the season with a troupe of 6'4" athletes in his face.

The result that day suggests he didn't control the game like he was allowed to on Saturday.

And that's the worry from what we've seen so far this season.

We are million miles off having the Sutton intimidatory approach. And equally far off having the ability to impose our will on the game through sheer ability.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Lesonthewest on August 21, 2023, 08:40:57 pm
John Bostock looked like a player on Saturday, with competence around him anyway, didn’t have the luxury in his time here.

I'd like to have seen how he perforned against Sutton on the opening day of the season with a troupe of 6'4" athletes in his face.

The result that day suggests he didn't control the game like he was allowed to on Saturday.

And that's the worry from what we've seen so far this season.

We are million miles off having the Sutton intimidatory approach. And equally far off having the ability to impose our will on the game through sheer ability.


In Bostock you have a player who  likes to play a nice pass, a cross that can hurt, but doesn't like it up him, in his face, strong challenges. We played completely into his hands. Would hav been exactly how he dreamt it, walk on the park for him.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Branton Rover on August 21, 2023, 09:01:40 pm
I always thought Stocky was a Rolls Royce midfielder especially before he started with the back injury. He seemed to glide around the centre circle and hardly ever lost possession - he was Captain Fantastic & Sean’s lieutenant on the pitch. He wasn’t as aggressive as Wellens but could dish it out when required ask Robbie Savage. He was a brilliant skipper he lead by example & had the respect of the players. He was also the reason Sean O’Driscoll came to us. Sean threw down the gauntlet to JR he said “go & get Brian Stock & I’ll come”. The rest is history.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Iberian Red on August 21, 2023, 09:05:14 pm
Did Wellens respect him when he 'allegedly' chinned him?
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: Branton Rover on August 21, 2023, 09:05:47 pm
The signing of Brian Stock was the most significant midfield signing in our history. Not only was he a great player and captain for us it was Sean O’Driscoll who said to JR “get Brian Stock & I’ll come”. We loaned him from Preston & snapped him up when the next window opened. The rest is history.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: ravenrover on August 22, 2023, 09:50:06 am
Did Wellens respect him when he 'allegedly' chinned him?
I can assure you it was not alleged
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: pib on August 22, 2023, 10:25:47 am
Wellens chinned Stocky? What was the story there then?
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 22, 2023, 10:58:07 am
I'll bet he didn't chin Rob Jones when the Corporal publicly called him out for dicking about in 2015.
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on August 22, 2023, 03:14:04 pm
I always thought Stocky was a Rolls Royce midfielder especially before he started with the back injury. He seemed to glide around the centre circle and hardly ever lost possession - he was Captain Fantastic & Sean’s lieutenant on the pitch. He wasn’t as aggressive as Wellens but could dish it out when required ask Robbie Savage. He was a brilliant skipper he lead by example & had the respect of the players. He was also the reason Sean O’Driscoll came to us. Sean threw down the gauntlet to JR he said “go & get Brian Stock & I’ll come”. The rest is history.

But the partnership with Wellens was such that they complimented each other so well. Both different types of players but we're extremely effective as a pair.

Wellens, very nimble on his feet, quick thinker and competitive. Stocky, as you say, glided across the pitch, a head up player picking the passes, long or short, prepared to have a dig and cool penalty taker.

Neither were known for being physical, more for passing, movement and game management, ideal for playing through the more physical teams we came across in the Championship, although it took sometime for the belief in how we played to pay dividends. What a turn around that was in the first season in the Championship. There weren't many better midfield duo's. Was it Merson who said "I could watch Donny all day!" 
Title: Re: When was the last time we had a good centre midfielder?!
Post by: ravenrover on August 22, 2023, 03:27:35 pm
Wellens chinned Stocky? What was the story there then?
From an eye witness to the event, a row broke out between Stock  and Wellens in the dressing room at half time, was it the Norwich game? They had a set to in the showers neither appeared for the 2nd half