Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: ncRover on September 15, 2023, 12:37:20 pm
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The breed has been banned under the dangerous dog act today.
Right decision?
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I thought this was another Trump topic
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The xl has not been banned yet. I work with dogs everyday and it's back yard breeders putting anything together with no clue about genetics and traits. It's the same in every breed sadly.
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Anyone who has one needs to be honest with themselves; they bought it because they think it makes them look toughter and have a bigger d***. The new ultimate chav accessory, because wife beater tops and roses tattooed on hands weren't enough
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Those type of dog owners are the worst, the dogs don't stand a chance .8 stone of muscle and jaw with no training or control. Saw a lady with a dog size of a pony yesterday, tuner and hooch type dog but heavier . She said one had gone for that other day for no reason . If it will pick a fight with that what chance a kid or small dogs . No need for them at all. Like walking around with a firearm . At some point it'll kill somebody
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Correct decision. Those dogs are atrocious.
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And yet organisations such as RSPCA Kennel Club etc say it's the wrong decision as it's down to poor breeding and useless owners!
Surely if this type of dog is available then the type who own them now will still buy them
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
The breeders bred the dog, and the dog is the end product. The end product is the problem, the dog IS the problem
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
Is that similar to saying that guns aren't the problem in mass shootings?
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
The breeders bred the dog, and the dog is the end product. The end product is the problem, the dog IS the problem
You should judge all dogs on their behaviour and not their appearance or breed.
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
Is that similar to saying that guns aren't the problem in mass shootings?
Guns are made with the purpose to kill. Dogs aren’t. All dogs can be trained to be vicious.
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Most dogs snap and bite. I step on our Shih Tzu accidentally now and again. He has a right pop. Wouldn’t fancy my foot if that was an XL Bully.
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I think the name is a bit of a giveaway.
Of course dogs are made to kill. They are carnivores. The question is, why would ANYONE want to share their life with a 40kg four legged creature built like Mike Tyson, with the physique, energy and strength to attack and kill other large creatures?
Saying "Well they haven't been trained right" when they rip someone's neck out is a bit of a weak second order argument.
It's exactly akin to someone saying that mass shootings are the sole fault of the shooter, and a society that normalises and accepts the domestication of a potentially deadly thing isn't at fault.
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
The breeders bred the dog, and the dog is the end product. The end product is the problem, the dog IS the problem
You should judge all dogs on their behaviour and not their appearance or breed.
The "it's the owners" or "it's not the dogs who are vicious" has no credit with these dogs sorry. I get that in theory you could train a jack Russell to attack...but these dogs are literally bred to be killers. It. Is. The. Dogs
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Correct decision, but I do think it's irresponsible owners who's at fault.
But much easier to ban a type of dog, than to ban certain people from owning one.
Literally no point in owning one of them, it's purely a symbol to make them feel hard.
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The problem is also that if you remove one breed of dog these people will turn to another
What have we gone from Staffies, Pitbulls XLbullies.... there is always a breed they can fall back on
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I think the name is a bit of a giveaway.
Of course dogs are made to kill. They are carnivores. The question is, why would ANYONE want to share their life with a 40kg four legged creature built like Mike Tyson, with the physique, energy and strength to attack and kill other large creatures?
Saying "Well they haven't been trained right" when they rip someone's neck out is a bit of a weak second order argument.
It's exactly akin to someone saying that mass shootings are the sole fault of the shooter, and a society that normalises and accepts the domestication of a potentially deadly thing isn't at fault.
I share my life with a 55kg Rottweiler. Amazing dog, friendly, loves people and other dogs. Highly intelligent and has an acute awareness of danger and when to put himself in front of me or my missus, he can do this without having to bark or snarl at someone.
I'd rather have a pint with him than a 60kg know-it-all t**t like you.
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You can't look at the footage of these dogs attacking, the damage done to kids etc and think it's right.
I have a genuine fear of all dogs of any size, I wouldn't want them banned, but these ones, it just doesn't feel right the way they act.
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60kg. Heh!
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
The breeders bred the dog, and the dog is the end product. The end product is the problem, the dog IS the problem
You should judge all dogs on their behaviour and not their appearance or breed.
The "it's the owners" or "it's not the dogs who are vicious" has no credit with these dogs sorry. I get that in theory you could train a jack Russell to attack...but these dogs are literally bred to be killers. It. Is. The. Dogs
You're right, they are bred to be killers by some moronic owners. Just as an alsation, doberman, rottweiler etc could be. Are you calling for them to be banned too? All dogs can be trained by breeders and owners to be attack dogs just as all dogs can be trained to be well behaved animals/pets. The problem IS the breeders and owners who train these dogs to be killers.
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This is a dog lover Vs dog hater debate, absolutely pointless thread.
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I come into contact with a lot of dogs daily and it really is a case of badly trained v well-trained.
The difference is you stand a good chance of controlling a dog less than 20kg.. I've met XL Bully's soft as muck but also seen on video what they are capable of. What is apparent however is that they've become an accessory for the dregs of society and that's a massive problem.
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If it's the owner's fault, then here's the opportunity to do something about it. Apparently, the guy is being charged with manslaughter.
Give the tw*t the maximum sentence that manslaughter carries.
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Not necessarily Nudga, I’m a dog lover and owner and I think the ban is the most sensible and practical way to go about it. Anything else can’t realistically be implemented.
There’s irresponsible dog owners with badly trained dogs of other breeds (including I’m sure some big and powerful ones) but we aren’t seeing a spate of stories about attacks with other breeds. There’s a pattern here.
We are overlooking the fact that these Bully’s are selected for breeding based on their aggression, which coupled with their size and bite makes them incredibly dangerous.
You could put an XL bully with behavioural issues with a perfect dog trainer, but it could still overpower them and get loose from its lead if it wanted to. And when they do good luck stopping one.
Other breeds are available and human lives are obviously far more important.
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The dogs aren't the problem, it's irresponsible dog owners and breeders that are the problem. It's just a publicity stunt by the government. Anyone would think that there's an election due soon.
Is that similar to saying that guns aren't the problem in mass shootings?
Guns are made with the purpose to kill. Dogs aren’t. All dogs can be trained to be vicious.
Some will argue that all dogs are bred for a purpose. What is the purpose for American Bullies, for instance?
On the other hand, some will say guns are made for firing a bullet, which is used for a number of purposes including hunting, target shooting, mucking around with knobs to boost business opportunities and drink whisky, looking tough, substituting being an adult, keeping Klingons at bay, defending your family, defending your second amendment, keeping other drug dealers off your patch and so on.
Similar stuff really.
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Indeed what is the purpose of the xl :headbang: other than being a pen** extension
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Not necessarily Nudga, I’m a dog lover and owner and I think the ban is the most sensible and practical way to go about it. Anything else can’t realistically be implemented.
There’s irresponsible dog owners with badly trained dogs of other breeds (including I’m sure some big and powerful ones) but we aren’t seeing a spate of stories about attacks with other breeds. There’s a pattern here.
We are overlooking the fact that these Bully’s are selected for breeding based on their aggression, which coupled with their size and bite makes them incredibly dangerous.
You could put an XL bully with behavioural issues with a perfect dog trainer, but it could still overpower them and get loose from its lead if it wanted to. And when they do good luck stopping one.
Other breeds are available and human lives are obviously far more important.
It's more of the generalisation that big dog breeds are dangerous killers.
I've had German Shepherds and Rottweilers for twenty years now and I get the comments daily about how dangerous they are, most of the time while the other person's little Terrier is kicking off and trying to bite my dogs face, but then it's "funny" because theirs has got "small man syndrome".
There will be hundreds of babies and toddlers attacked and bitten by small dogs but it never makes the news. I know obviously large breeds do more damage and it's harder to control them once they've gone but it's that that sells papers.
I agree that the XL bully is usually owned by council estate scratters or no neck jacked up body builders who have zero clue about training a dog and more importantly, socializing it.
To do these two thjngs you've got to get them out twice a day early in their life in busy park areas so that they are constantly coming into contact with people and other dogs and using treats and positive actions as reward for going anything good, no matter how trivial.
Usually, these Kitsons just take them to the shop for a can of energy drink or the local park where kids are playing with footballs etc.
I've seen large breed rescue dogs with massive problems become a totally different dog within 6 months because the owner took the time to train them and socialize them.
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Not necessarily Nudga, I’m a dog lover and owner and I think the ban is the most sensible and practical way to go about it. Anything else can’t realistically be implemented.
There’s irresponsible dog owners with badly trained dogs of other breeds (including I’m sure some big and powerful ones) but we aren’t seeing a spate of stories about attacks with other breeds. There’s a pattern here.
We are overlooking the fact that these Bully’s are selected for breeding based on their aggression, which coupled with their size and bite makes them incredibly dangerous.
You could put an XL bully with behavioural issues with a perfect dog trainer, but it could still overpower them and get loose from its lead if it wanted to. And when they do good luck stopping one.
Other breeds are available and human lives are obviously far more important.
It's more of the generalisation that big dog breeds are dangerous killers.
I've had German Shepherds and Rottweilers for twenty years now and I get the comments daily about how dangerous they are, most of the time while the other person's little Terrier is kicking off and trying to bite my dogs face, but then it's "funny" because theirs has got "small man syndrome".
There will be hundreds of babies and toddlers attacked and bitten by small dogs but it never makes the news. I know obviously large breeds do more damage and it's harder to control them once they've gone but it's that that sells papers.
I agree that the XL bully is usually owned by council estate scratters or no neck jacked up body builders who have zero clue about training a dog and more importantly, socializing it.
To do these two thjngs you've got to get them out twice a day early in their life in busy park areas so that they are constantly coming into contact with people and other dogs and using treats and positive actions as reward for going anything good, no matter how trivial.
Usually, these Kitsons just take them to the shop for a can of energy drink or the local park where kids are playing with footballs etc.
I've seen large breed rescue dogs with massive problems become a totally different dog within 6 months because the owner took the time to train them and socialize them.
Great post Nudga.
I have had four German Shepherds over the years and they have all been superbly well behaved and sociable with other dogs and people.
All down to taking time to train them properly.
I guess that I’m one of those people who likes to share his life with a 40kg animal.
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Not necessarily Nudga, I’m a dog lover and owner and I think the ban is the most sensible and practical way to go about it. Anything else can’t realistically be implemented.
There’s irresponsible dog owners with badly trained dogs of other breeds (including I’m sure some big and powerful ones) but we aren’t seeing a spate of stories about attacks with other breeds. There’s a pattern here.
We are overlooking the fact that these Bully’s are selected for breeding based on their aggression, which coupled with their size and bite makes them incredibly dangerous.
You could put an XL bully with behavioural issues with a perfect dog trainer, but it could still overpower them and get loose from its lead if it wanted to. And when they do good luck stopping one.
Other breeds are available and human lives are obviously far more important.
It's more of the generalisation that big dog breeds are dangerous killers.
I've had German Shepherds and Rottweilers for twenty years now and I get the comments daily about how dangerous they are, most of the time while the other person's little Terrier is kicking off and trying to bite my dogs face, but then it's "funny" because theirs has got "small man syndrome".
There will be hundreds of babies and toddlers attacked and bitten by small dogs but it never makes the news. I know obviously large breeds do more damage and it's harder to control them once they've gone but it's that that sells papers.
I agree that the XL bully is usually owned by council estate scratters or no neck jacked up body builders who have zero clue about training a dog and more importantly, socializing it.
To do these two thjngs you've got to get them out twice a day early in their life in busy park areas so that they are constantly coming into contact with people and other dogs and using treats and positive actions as reward for going anything good, no matter how trivial.
Usually, these Kitsons just take them to the shop for a can of energy drink or the local park where kids are playing with footballs etc.
I've seen large breed rescue dogs with massive problems become a totally different dog within 6 months because the owner took the time to train them and socialize them.
Great post Nudga.
I have had four German Shepherds over the years and they have all been superbly well behaved and sociable with other dogs and people.
All down to taking time to train them properly.
I guess that I’m one of those people who likes to share his life with a 40kg animal.
It’s nothing to do with the size is it? It’s their mentality and their capacity to do damage.
By the way, if you believe nurture can overcome all aspects of nature, science says you are wrong.
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This isn’t a discussion about German shepherds and Rottweilers. Which no one here has a problem with.
Different breeds have different temperaments. That temperament can be selected based on the desired traits that fit a breed’s potential purpose. E.g border collies were bred to herd sheep. Retrievers need to retrieve. Dogs in general bred to be pets. What are these Bully’s bred for?
Gaz is right. Yes in some cases nature can overcome nurture, but we are speaking in terms of general trends and patterns.
95% of those who go to prison for violent crimes are men. Is that nurture, or is it because men on average are biologically and physiologically more aggressive?
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Not necessarily Nudga, I’m a dog lover and owner and I think the ban is the most sensible and practical way to go about it. Anything else can’t realistically be implemented.
There’s irresponsible dog owners with badly trained dogs of other breeds (including I’m sure some big and powerful ones) but we aren’t seeing a spate of stories about attacks with other breeds. There’s a pattern here.
We are overlooking the fact that these Bully’s are selected for breeding based on their aggression, which coupled with their size and bite makes them incredibly dangerous.
You could put an XL bully with behavioural issues with a perfect dog trainer, but it could still overpower them and get loose from its lead if it wanted to. And when they do good luck stopping one.
Other breeds are available and human lives are obviously far more important.
It's more of the generalisation that big dog breeds are dangerous killers.
I've had German Shepherds and Rottweilers for twenty years now and I get the comments daily about how dangerous they are, most of the time while the other person's little Terrier is kicking off and trying to bite my dogs face, but then it's "funny" because theirs has got "small man syndrome".
There will be hundreds of babies and toddlers attacked and bitten by small dogs but it never makes the news. I know obviously large breeds do more damage and it's harder to control them once they've gone but it's that that sells papers.
I agree that the XL bully is usually owned by council estate scratters or no neck jacked up body builders who have zero clue about training a dog and more importantly, socializing it.
To do these two thjngs you've got to get them out twice a day early in their life in busy park areas so that they are constantly coming into contact with people and other dogs and using treats and positive actions as reward for going anything good, no matter how trivial.
Usually, these Kitsons just take them to the shop for a can of energy drink or the local park where kids are playing with footballs etc.
I've seen large breed rescue dogs with massive problems become a totally different dog within 6 months because the owner took the time to train them and socialize them.
Great post Nudga.
I have had four German Shepherds over the years and they have all been superbly well behaved and sociable with other dogs and people.
All down to taking time to train them properly.
I guess that I’m one of those people who likes to share his life with a 40kg animal.
It’s nothing to do with the size is it? It’s their mentality and their capacity to do damage.
By the way, if you believe nurture can overcome all aspects of nature, science says you are wrong.
I know it isn’t about size Gaz but someone earlier in the thread said that they didn’t understand why anyone would want to live with a 40kg animal and I was stating that I am one of those people.
Maybe people who haven’t had a dog as a pet wouldn’t understand the benefits of doing so, as long as the dog is well trained and trustworthy.
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Not necessarily Nudga, I’m a dog lover and owner and I think the ban is the most sensible and practical way to go about it. Anything else can’t realistically be implemented.
There’s irresponsible dog owners with badly trained dogs of other breeds (including I’m sure some big and powerful ones) but we aren’t seeing a spate of stories about attacks with other breeds. There’s a pattern here.
We are overlooking the fact that these Bully’s are selected for breeding based on their aggression, which coupled with their size and bite makes them incredibly dangerous.
You could put an XL bully with behavioural issues with a perfect dog trainer, but it could still overpower them and get loose from its lead if it wanted to. And when they do good luck stopping one.
Other breeds are available and human lives are obviously far more important.
It's more of the generalisation that big dog breeds are dangerous killers.
I've had German Shepherds and Rottweilers for twenty years now and I get the comments daily about how dangerous they are, most of the time while the other person's little Terrier is kicking off and trying to bite my dogs face, but then it's "funny" because theirs has got "small man syndrome".
There will be hundreds of babies and toddlers attacked and bitten by small dogs but it never makes the news. I know obviously large breeds do more damage and it's harder to control them once they've gone but it's that that sells papers.
I agree that the XL bully is usually owned by council estate scratters or no neck jacked up body builders who have zero clue about training a dog and more importantly, socializing it.
To do these two thjngs you've got to get them out twice a day early in their life in busy park areas so that they are constantly coming into contact with people and other dogs and using treats and positive actions as reward for going anything good, no matter how trivial.
Usually, these Kitsons just take them to the shop for a can of energy drink or the local park where kids are playing with footballs etc.
I've seen large breed rescue dogs with massive problems become a totally different dog within 6 months because the owner took the time to train them and socialize them.
Great post Nudga.
I have had four German Shepherds over the years and they have all been superbly well behaved and sociable with other dogs and people.
All down to taking time to train them properly.
I guess that I’m one of those people who likes to share his life with a 40kg animal.
It’s nothing to do with the size is it? It’s their mentality and their capacity to do damage.
By the way, if you believe nurture can overcome all aspects of nature, science says you are wrong.
I know it isn’t about size Gaz but someone earlier in the thread said that they didn’t understand why anyone would want to live with a 40kg animal and I was stating that I am one of those people.
Maybe people who haven’t had a dog as a pet wouldn’t understand the benefits of doing so, as long as the dog is well trained and trustworthy.
Exactly hound, I've Caucasian Ovachakras and Central asain shepherds, all are 75kg plus and are trained to a high standard. Both breeds fight of bears and wolves from livestock many still do in regions around the world. Training is key and knowing the correct type of training is even more key. Bad breeding in the xl has ruined the breed like many others but not to this lethal extent. Sad all round caused by a few.
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Didn't you lose your last dog Hound a couple of years back? What breed was it? Have you replaced it?
We lost our 2nd Springer a few years back, no more I said. I was the one who always made that last visit to the vets. Thankfully I changed my mind and we now have a 3 year old Cocker, she is probably in her own way the best dog we have had she is brilliant with our young grandkids but all our dogs were loved and "trained" to a certain extent, but were chosen for their breed all 3 being spaniels.
That I think is part of the problem size might not matter we meet a pair of lovely Rottweilers on our morning walk which are so well trained, but owning something the size of a bully with that sort of temprement and a bad owner leads to all sorts of behavioural problems
My friends son has a ridgeback, he has two young children which it loves but I wouldn't go anywhere near it having seen how his landrover rocks as the dog goes crazy when anyone gets near it. He exercises it away from other dogs for some reason, wonder why that is.
Take a bully away and these bad owners will always find an alternative
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Didn't you lose your last dog Hound a couple of years back? What breed was it? Have you replaced it?
We lost our 2nd Springer a few years back, no more I said. I was the one who always made that last visit to the vets. Thankfully I changed my mind and we now have a 3 year old Cocker, she is probably in her own way the best dog we have had she is brilliant with our young grandkids but all our dogs were loved and "trained" to a certain extent, but were chosen for their breed all 3 being spaniels.
That I think is part of the problem size might not matter we meet a pair of lovely Rottweilers on our morning walk which are so well trained, but owning something the size of a bully with that sort of temprement and a bad owner leads to all sorts of behavioural problems
My friends son has a ridgeback, he has two young children which it loves but I wouldn't go anywhere near it having seen how his landrover rocks as the dog goes crazy when anyone gets near it. He exercises it away from other dogs for some reason, wonder why that is.
Take a bully away and these bad owners will always find an alternative
Raven, you have remembered well.
It is just under two years since I had to make the trip to the vets with my gentle giant German Shepherd.
He was such a big softie and totally ball focussed.
We got another GSD five months after he left us and this one is now 17 months old and is beginning to be a very good dog.
Very sociable with other dogs and people and is loved by our grandchildren.
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Reckon that agrees with my point Hound
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Alright. I'm converted.
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1702696264100409673
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“The breed has been responsible for half of all dog-related deaths in the UK since 2021, killing nine people including three children”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/04/american-bully-dog-breed-spotlight-uk-fatal-attacks?ssp=1&setlang=en-GB&safesearch=moderate
“According to another news article, American XL Bullies have been involved in 44% of attacks on people in 2023, and 75% of fatalities since 2021, despite only being around 1% of the UK dog population.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/how-many-american-xl-bully-attacks-have-there-been-in-uk-why-dog-breed-is-being-banned-after-multiple-deaths/ar-AA1gM95s
Insurmountable evidence.
But yeah let’s listen to Boris and a meme someone’s auntie put on Facebook.
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Nc.
Err...have a stop and think about the unintended irony of what he says.
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Something must be going over my head here Billy sorry
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Johnson saying "It's not the dog that's the problem. It's the owner."
Like a moment of inadvertent self awareness of the damage he's done.
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https://x.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1705676222280192471?s=46
Can’t believe this isn’t a mockumentary
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All dogs bite, it’s what they do to test, to taste and to fight. The border collie has the worst record for bite injuries at A&E in Galway.
The problem is the bully’s bite power it’s 300psi!
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Walking around Buttermere yesterday my small very friendly Cocker off the lead was attacked by a Staffie off the lead. When I politely suggested to this rather large younger gentleman that his Staffie should be on a lead he said it was my dogs fault for approaching his and walked off spouting profanities. This is exactly the problem irresponsible owners!
Thankfully there was no damage done to my dog.
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Did your dog approach his?
I keep my dog on a lead as it doesn’t like other dogs running up to it. If a dog does this and mine bites it then it’s their fault.
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Yes but if the staffy was off the lead that allows the other dog owner to assume that dog is friendly
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Both dogs off lead, both in front of owners, so to say one approached the other is incorrect and was just his excuse for his dogs behaviour. He actually called his dog back with no response.They both had a sniff at each other, mine carried on past, the staffie turned and attacked. As I said no damage done but no remorse from staffie owner and tried blaming my dog for his attacking it. The older bloke with him, his Dad?, looked surprised and said something to the other bloke who started ranting at him as they walked away about it not being his dogs fault that it attacked mine.
Regarding leads we always put ours on a lead if we approach another already on a lead, I think it's fair to assume if a dog is off the lead that it is a "safe" dog.
I agree with you regarding your point about a dog on it's lead being defensive
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I would also expect a dog not on its lead to be a safe dog with good recall. Your encounter with the owner sounds all too familiar!
Glad your dogs OK Raven
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Thanks Knockers she's fine