Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: wilts rover on September 29, 2023, 10:21:39 pm
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Sunak discussing the blanket 20 mph speed limit across the UK. Interviewer (twice) points out there isn't one. Sunak ignores him (twice) and carries on insisting what doesn't exist does exist.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1707707158584786975
Vote Tory.
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He's going to be a car crash (sic) in the election campaign. He's utterly unable to think on his feet when challenged. He just keeps on repeating the agreed line. That's 5-6 times he's done that now. If he implodes in the campaign like May did, it really won't be pretty.
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Let's give up on a transformational infrastructure project to fill in pot holes that should be dealt with anyway?
Sounds like a fair swap...
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Everything pointing towards a landslide Labour victory at the GE.
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I genuinely thought he might be a different sort, given how well his Treasury did things at the start of COVID.
But he's just going into disinformation now.
He KNOWS it's not a blanket 20mph policy.
He KNOWS that there is plenty of evidence that 20mph limits in busy urban and residential areas reduce pedestrian injuries and deaths and massively improve air quality.
But he can't get into that discussion, because he has to throw red meat to the slavering libertarians on his back benches who are slavering at this. So he calls it. A blanket ban and says blanket bans are wrong.
I wonder what he sees when he looks in the mirror.
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I wonder how he justifies what he is doing to his daughters?
He's smart enough to know the climate science is real.
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A sneak preview of the tory party conference ......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42rDyZSqrY
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A sneak preview of the tory party conference ......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42rDyZSqrY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42rDyZSqrY)
Ronnie Barker... the man was a genius :thumbsup:
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Fast forward here to 1:16:50.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001r0s6
This is the Transport Secretary apparently (I'm a political obsessive and I've never heard of him).
In the following 150 seconds, he says "blanket imposition" seven times. It's excruciating to listen to.
And the utterly useless BBC interviewer never once picks him up on the fact that the Welsh haven't introduced a blanket imposition.
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph default blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
You're wrong
''However there are plenty of roads which will be exempt from the reduction to 20mph and will remain at 30mph. These will usually be major roads and arterial routes.. Local authorities have discretion to keep roads at 30mph if they think it is appropriate''
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/roads-wales-remaining-30mph-limits-27634523
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
You're wrong
''However there are plenty of roads which will be exempt from the reduction to 20mph and will remain at 30mph. These will usually be major roads and arterial routes.. Local authorities have discretion to keep roads at 30mph if they think it is appropriate''
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/roads-wales-remaining-30mph-limits-27634523
I wonder if anyone is taking notes about this, what do you reckon bb?
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Sunak mentions blanket bans on areas. I assumed he meant he was against those areas having blanket bans (without any exceptions), meaning they should apply only at certain times, such as school times, etc. These rules apply in England already in certain areas.
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph default blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
You are wrong
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph default blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
Perfect example of the Tory strategy here.
Plant the seed in ill-informed minds that this is massive over-reach by a Labour Government. Assume, almost certainly correctly, that if you use the term "blanket imposition" every time you draw breath, there are people who will believe that it really is a blanket imposition.
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph default blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
Perfect example of the Tory strategy here.
Plant the seed in ill-informed minds that this is massive over-reach by a Labour Government. Assume, almost certainly correctly, that if you use the term "blanket imposition" every time you draw breath, there are people who will believe that it really is a blanket imposition.
Perfect example of a Labour supporter here.
Spends his life searching the web for anti-Tory stories to post on a 4th division off-topic football forum as a way of promoting his beloved Labour Party.
..... Oh and who STILL believes only Tories lie, Labour just make mistakes!
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph default blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
Perfect example of the Tory strategy here.
Plant the seed in ill-informed minds that this is massive over-reach by a Labour Government. Assume, almost certainly correctly, that if you use the term "blanket imposition" every time you draw breath, there are people who will believe that it really is a blanket imposition.
Perfect example of a Labour supporter here.
Spends his life searching the web for anti-Tory stories to post on a 4th division off-topic football forum as a way of promoting his beloved Labour Party.
..... Oh and who STILL believes only Tories lie, Labour just make mistakes!
And down the BB rabbit hole we go again. No connection with what we are talking about. Just abuse and belittling anyone who talks about stuff he doesn't like.
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Interview on breakfast mantra was
Sensible in areas around schools or high accident rates
Imposed by a Labour Govt in Wales
Blanket imposition
Repeated over and over again, but then comes out with decision is left to local councils. Well seeing as my girl is involved in road safety and imposing 20mph in Nottingham this is exactly what happens now so no change.
It looks purely to do with having a pop at Welsh Labour
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Raven.
They got a straw to clutch at with the Uxbridge by election. They have absolutely zero interest in the fact that 20mph zones are demonstrated to reduce accidents and injuries and improve air quality for residents.
They have absolutely zero interest in the fact that the zones don't add massive amounts to journey times, because in urban areas, a lot of the journey time is being stuck waiting at junctions.
They are just going full on Culture War. Setting this up as the Woke Blob against ordinary people. They have absolutely nothing of any worth to offer.
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It's actually quite clever if you see your role as a politician as cleaving cracks between people, which is the whole point of the Culture War.
These are the steps.
1) Choose a perfectly sensible policy, which you actually do know is sensible.
2) Blow it out of all proportion to the actual facts and keep hammering a line that seeps into people's heads.
3) Tell them that it's the Woke Elite taking away their rights.
4) Rely on the fact that, when someone points out the actual facts to them and explains that they are being duped, it'll only make them angrier with the other side.
BB has demonstrated how well that works.
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Behave, silly Billy. You're an embarrassment to anyone who is capable of reading straight through you.
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Which one of those 4 steps were you disagreeing with them BB?
Because the way I see it, you're a perfect example of how it works. You demonstrated that the lie had penetrated your head. Then you got cross when it was pointed out that you were being played.
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You see, that's my entire point. This thread was all about Sunak's use of the word 'blanket'. His use of the word wasn't unique to the subject, it had been previously used in articles on the subject. But, because this was ammunition for you to use in your campaign of Tory hatred, you just couldn't help yourself other than to assume he was lying.
It looks to me that you're the one who has allowed lies to penetrate your head, so much so that you actually believe such shite as only Tories lie, Labour just make mistakes.
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BB
It is not a blanket imposition of a 20mph limit on all 30mph roads.
Are you REALLY going to do this?
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OK, so the default is it's a blanket limit on all restricted roads, but local authorities can apply to get it changed.
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Err. Yes, all the roads that have had the speed limit restricted have had the speed limit restricted.
Are you REALLY going to carry on with this?
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We keep hearing that the imposition of these restrictions on a wider scale than just in areas around schools and other locations were there is a good reason to think they will be beneficial, will be an overall benefit in road safety.
It will be interesting to see when more data is available as to what the knock on effect will be to areas in regards to congestion and the knock on effect to local bushiness. It then gives the original scheme enablers a reason to look at the congestion and use this then to inact further creep towards so called 15mins city's, in fact lets cut to the chase and ban the use of cars for ordinary people because they may be dangerous!
In effect where does this all end? shall we lock people away in their homes for 23 hours a day to ensure that no "danger" affects their everyday lives when in fact by this stage no one will have a bloody life.
Sounds farcical to you? just wait and see what uncle Starmer has in store for the next 5 years, he's been taking notes from what the odious Khan is trying to implement in London.
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Err. Yes, all the roads that have had the speed limit restricted have had the speed limit restricted.
Are you REALLY going to carry on with this?
as long as you are Billy lad. The more you are exposed the better as far as I'm concerned.
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DD
I think you need a lie down.
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Well that IS you BB. Always about the argument for the sake of arguing. Never prepared to look dispassionately at the facts. Always the same.
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DD
I think you need a lie down.
Will that be before or after you've carried out your audit and its been assessed and signed off as safe for me to do so?
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Well that IS you BB. Always about the argument for the sake of arguing. Never prepared to look dispassionately at the facts. Always the same.
Facking hell, that's brilliant coming from thee!
I tend to look at things more compassionately.
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You see, that's my entire point. This thread was all about Sunak's use of the word 'blanket'. His use of the word wasn't unique to the subject, it had been previously used in articles on the subject. But, because this was ammunition for you to use in your campaign of Tory hatred, you just couldn't help yourself other than to assume he was lying.
It looks to me that you're the one who has allowed lies to penetrate your head, so much so that you actually believe such shite as only Tories lie, Labour just make mistakes.
His use of the word 'blanket' was in connection with the interview linked above where the interviewer corrected him that there was no such thing. Anywhere in the UK never mind the whole UK. And he ignored them and continued to insist there was. Twice.
But his defenders of course will continue to deefend him. Because all they care about is keeping the Tories in power and if, as Johnson has proven, lying helps achieve that, then that's what they will do.
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You see, that's my entire point. This thread was all about Sunak's use of the word 'blanket'. His use of the word wasn't unique to the subject, it had been previously used in articles on the subject. But, because this was ammunition for you to use in your campaign of Tory hatred, you just couldn't help yourself other than to assume he was lying.
It looks to me that you're the one who has allowed lies to penetrate your head, so much so that you actually believe such shite as only Tories lie, Labour just make mistakes.
His use of the word 'blanket' was in connection with the interview linked above where the interviewer corrected him that there was no such thing. Anywhere in the UK never mind the whole UK. And he ignored them and continued to insist there was. Twice.
But his defenders of course will continue to deefend him. Because all they care about is keeping the Tories in power and if, as Johnson has proven, lying helps achieve that, then that's what they will do.
Define 'blanket'
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Cambridge Dictionary.
"including or affecting everything, everyone, or all cases, in a large group or area".
Weirdly they don't define it as, "including or affecting everything, everyone, or all cases, in a large group or area...except for all those cases that aren't covered."
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In that case, do UK motorways have blanket speed limits?
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''Gear Change: One Year On''
''In the decade to 2020, road traffic in urban areas grew by a quarter, and on
side streets by a third.
It is forecast to rise even more in the next decade.
There are only a few ways to deal with this. The best way is to make better
use of the roads we’ve already got, by encouraging vehicles such as cycles
and buses that take up less space per passenger.
I know many people think that cycling and walking schemes simply increase
car traffic on other roads. But there is now increasing evidence that they
do not.
We sometimes think of traffic as like water: if you block a stream in
one place, it will find the next easiest way. Of course some journeys by car
are essential, but traffic is not a force of nature. It is a product of people’s
choices.
If you make it easier and safer to walk and cycle, more people
choose to walk and cycle instead of driving, and the traffic falls overall''
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007815/gear-change-one-year-on.pdf
We are like the wind
vote tory
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You support Labour.
Vote Tory.
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The main point here is not that Sunak is a liar, we know that. It's that he can't think properly on his feet. He is like a schoolboy having latched onto an argument he's overheard and when it's discussed in the real world he can't deal with adapting the black and white of his script because fundamentally he doesn't understand what he's talking about.
As was said (BST?), in the election lead up, it's nailed on he'll fall flat on his face with gaffs numerous times.
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PM's of the past never had to put up with everything they said being put through a toothcomb of accuracy like they have since social media filmed every breath they took and everything they said. There is no such thing as off the record nowadays.
When Keir Starmer falls on his arse as PM it will be a Godsend for him, because it will at least stop him talking out of it for a while.
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''Conservatives launch conference with towns funding pledge'' ......
.............. they also launched another plan to make dozens more towns into cities .......
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PM's of the past never had to put up with everything they said being put through a toothcomb of accuracy like they have since social media filmed every breath they took and everything they said. There is no such thing as off the record nowadays.
When Keir Starmer falls on his arse as PM it will be a Godsend for him, because it will at least stop him talking out of it for a while.
What an odd contribution.
Both the interview in the OP and the R4 one I posted were examples of where the PM and a Cabinet Minister have gone on pre-arranged mainstream, old school media interviews.
But I'm sure your post made sense to you BB.
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Back on Sunak.
Surely he's not going to stand up in Manchester at the Tory Conference this week and announce that Manchester isn't going to get HS2?
Is he?
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Would you want him to lie about it?
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PM's of the past never had to put up with everything they said being put through a toothcomb of accuracy like they have since social media filmed every breath they took and everything they said. There is no such thing as off the record nowadays.
When Keir Starmer falls on his arse as PM it will be a Godsend for him, because it will at least stop him talking out of it for a while.
What an odd contribution.
Both the interview in the OP and the R4 one I posted were examples of where the PM and a Cabinet Minister have gone on pre-arranged mainstream, old school media interviews.
But I'm sure your post made sense to you BB.
Did the pre-arranged interview in the OP only last 50 seconds or was it cut down deliberately so as to call the PM a liar because of the use of one word?
Also, while you're reading this Billy lad maybe you can answer this.
Do UK motorways have blanket speed limits?
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BB
You can see the interview. The use of that word over and again.
You can listen to the live Transport Secretary interview. The use of the same, wrong term 7 times in 2.5 minutes. Including once where he stammers it out while talking over the interviewer asking about something else.
You are perfectly capable of seeing and hearing these things.
And no, there are blanket speed limits on UK motorways. Not that that had anything whatsoever to do with this discussion.
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And no, there are blanket speed limits on UK motorways.
So there are blanket speed limits in England?
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Typo. I meant to say "no there aren't blanket speed limits on our motorways."
Not that that has anything whatsoever to do with what we are talking about.
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Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 'blanket' means without any exceptions, isn't there now a 20 mph default blanket limit in Wales on all previous 30 mph roads?
Just correcting you because you’re wrong here BB.
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
BST, do you recall admonishing people who spoke about how thick Diane Abbott was/is.
Double standards old lad?
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
Scott Benton is a first class pr#ck. The type of man that appeals to first class pr#cks.
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
BST, do you recall admonishing people who spoke about how thick Diane Abbott was/is.
Double standards old lad?
No, BST is better than the rest of us don’t forget so can’t be held to the standards we are
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Is that a chip on your shoulder,or a huge sack of spuds?
Why not contribute to the thread?
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
BST, do you recall admonishing people who spoke about how thick Diane Abbott was/is.
Double standards old lad?
No, BST is better than the rest of us don’t forget so can’t be held to the standards we are
No Ldr.
I'm pointing out here someone who has typed into Twitter words that reveal an astonishing level of ignorance, then decided to post them.
The specific instance that Hound is referring to by Abbott was a mistake in an early morning radio interview in the middle of a heated election campaign, in response to a question from an interviewer who saw it as his job to trip politicians up.
Her error was not being on top of her brief in response to a question thrown at her.
Benton's error is to go on the internet and instead of checking some basic facts, choose, pro-actively to show the world that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'd expect better from you and I'm sure even Hound will see the difference when he sits down and thinks about it.
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
Scott Benton is a first class pr#ck. The type of man that appeals to first class pr#cks.
Poised to be suspended by Commons Standards Committee for leaking, fraud and offering access to Ministers. If it's more than 10 days then a possible byelection looms.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-face-another-nightmare-election-31082177
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
BST, do you recall admonishing people who spoke about how thick Diane Abbott was/is.
Double standards old lad?
No, BST is better than the rest of us don’t forget so can’t be held to the standards we are
No Ldr.
I'm pointing out here someone who has typed into Twitter words that reveal an astonishing level of ignorance, then decided to post them.
The specific instance that Hound is referring to by Abbott was a mistake in an early morning radio interview in the middle of a heated election campaign, in response to a question from an interviewer who saw it as his job to trip politicians up.
Her error was not being on top of her brief in response to a question thrown at her.
Benton's error is to go on the internet and instead of checking some basic facts, choose, pro-actively to show the world that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'd expect better from you and I'm sure even Hound will see the difference when he sits down and thinks about it.
BST, yes i do agree with you that there is a difference between the two instances and Benton appears to be a loose cannon.
However, in Abbots case, a person with her role should have been able to think on her feet and certainly come out with a figure of more significance than the one she blurted out, more than once as well.
Politicians are well versed with being put under pressure by interviewers and senior ones in particular should be better than she was that morning.
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Another Tory MP going all #MeToo on 20mph limits.
https://twitter.com/ScottBentonMP/status/1708564736940396723
Why do bell ends like this feel driven to show us how ignorant and thick they are in the short while they have left before a lifetime of well-earned obscurity?
Scott Benton is a first class pr#ck. The type of man that appeals to first class pr#cks.
Poised to be suspended by Commons Standards Committee for leaking, fraud and offering access to Ministers. If it's more than 10 days then a possible byelection looms.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-face-another-nightmare-election-31082177
He should be suspended.
From the top of Queen Elizabeth Tower.
That's unlikely tho. With his credentials he'll probably be made next leader of the tory party.
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Interesting watching the empty seats at the Tory Conference. "Your grounds too big for you!" :lol:
Maybe the delegates are more concentrated in the toilets, or busy buying up coke for the evenngs parties?
Is it getting to the point of them holdimg out their hands and asking, "price of a cuppa tea, please"?
It's like Wednesday playing in the Conference North.
Slightly off topic but maybe not deserving of a new thread due to lack of interest.
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https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1708913451710484494
Just astonishing. They are going full on post-truth.
This is appalling stuff. Just make shit up, throw it and hope some sticks.
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And another one.
https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1708792200329372089
The idea of the so called "15 minute cities" is to make sure that everyone has schools and shops and well served bus stops within easy walking distance. It's got f**k all to do with councils telling you how often you can go to the shops.
I genuinely thought Sunak would have higher standards for his Government. But this is just a machine gun of made up policies that no-one in Labour is remotely proposing.
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And another one.
https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1708792200329372089
The idea of the so called "15 minute cities" is to make sure that everyone has schools and shops and well served bus stops within easy walking distance. It's got f**k all to do with councils telling you how often you can go to the shops.
I genuinely thought Sunak would have higher standards for his Government. But this is just a machine gun of made up policies that no-one in Labour is remotely proposing.
Yes that's the official line but are you seriously suggesting it is about anything other than reducing car use?
I'm not saying that isn't an admirable cause worth pursuing. However let's not dress it up as something it isn't. Councils up and down the country are deliberately making cities less car friendly. I drive in both Leeds and York on a daily basis unfortunately and both cities are going to extraordinary lengths to make life unpleasant for the motorist. Three lane roads suddenly being reduced to one lane etc for no discernible reason. Previously accessible places no longer accessible (City Square in Leeds for exmple). Heavy congestion on reduced capacity roads that previously had free flowing traffic. The approach is clearly geared towards making car travel less convenient for urban commuters. We all know people won't ditch their cars unless there becomes no point in using them and that can only come from increased cost and inconvenience.
People can see with their own eyes what is happening and it's rather insulting to be told it's simply all in pursuit of making it easier for grandma to go out and buy a pint of milk. It plays into the hands of the conspiracy theorists, as you've rightly pointed out. "War on the motorist" doesn't tend to play well at the ballot box though does it! It's also why we're suddenly seing the Tories miraculously trying to cosy up to the motorist now an election is looming and they're desperate.
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So they're scrapping HS2 in the North.
This means the whole thing has been a criminal waste of time and money as what's left doesn't serve the purpose it was designed for.
Then they're going to clamp down on people with mental health problems, reducing benefits, unless they get 'therapy'.
Who's going to provide this therapy when waiting lists are already months or years long?
Or is it just another meaningless unworkable plan to stoke up the hard of thinking.
They really haven't got a clue.
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Sunak bragging this morning about giving 55 towns in the north and midlands £20million to spend as they wish.
Doesn't mention this is over 10 years and goes nowhere near to replace the scathing cuts in local council funding.
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I’ve watched the PM on telly this morning telling us that the cost of living crisis and inflation isn’t his fault. All pretty depressing. How anyone can still vote for this charlatan is beyond me.
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So they're scrapping HS2 in the North.
This means the whole thing has been a criminal waste of time and money as what's left doesn't serve the purpose it was designed for.
Then they're going to clamp down on people with mental health problems, reducing benefits, unless they get 'therapy'.
Who's going to provide this therapy when waiting lists are already months or years long?
Or is it just another meaningless unworkable plan to stoke up the hard of thinking.
They really haven't got a clue.
Tommy, I have been saying for years that HS2 is a waste of money and that the original estimate of cost would spiral out of control.
I have never understood why people need to get from the north to London thirty minutes faster.
Covid proved that people can still hold meetings without actually travelling and even if they have to travel, just set off on an earlier train.
The money should have been spent on improving what we already have.
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So they're scrapping HS2 in the North.
This means the whole thing has been a criminal waste of time and money as what's left doesn't serve the purpose it was designed for.
Then they're going to clamp down on people with mental health problems, reducing benefits, unless they get 'therapy'.
Who's going to provide this therapy when waiting lists are already months or years long?
Or is it just another meaningless unworkable plan to stoke up the hard of thinking.
They really haven't got a clue.
Tommy, I have been saying for years that HS2 is a waste of money and that the original estimate of cost would spiral out of control.
I have never understood why people need to get from the north to London thirty minutes faster.
Covid proved that people can still hold meetings without actually travelling and even if they have to travel, just set off on an earlier train.
The money should have been spent on improving what we already have.
Agree with this to a point. The disparity in transport infrastructure in the country is mind-blowing. Where I live, there's a train every 15 minutes that takes me into central London and these trains are made up of anywhere between 12 & 15 carriages. They are clean and largely reliable. Up North you can only dream of anything remotely close to this. The fact that HST 2 isn't going any further than Birmingham is a disgrace.
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What is a disgrace it that it was ever started in the 1st place, be that by Labour or Tories
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Risky flies a kite to see which way the winds blows and then says he won't speculate and the decision won't be rushed. A ₤100bn project and he and his government haven't done their homework.
This from a few days ago.
''Sunak and Hunt can’t play shocked at HS2’s cost overruns''
''ne piece of political spin about HS2’s spiralling costs is nonsense: the idea that ministers have a right to be shocked by the numbers. HS2 Ltd, the body building the railway and new stations, may be “arm’s length” for shorthand purposes, but it is not some faraway entity operating beyond government scrutiny. Rather, it is tightly meshed to the Department for Transport (DfT), which is involved in all big planning and spending decisions.
So when the chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, says costs are “getting totally out of control” – a reasonable analysis as the bill heads towards a grotesque £100bn – he should explain why the government is seemingly surprised. Whitehall insiders talk about HS2’s bosses behaving “like kids with the golden credit card” but that ignores the fact that there is an “open books” relationship with the DfT. The government sees the monthly credit card statements, as it were. And No 10, incidentally, signs off on the megabucks salaries (departing chief executive Mark Thurston got £676,000 last year) on appointment.
Allan Cook, who was chair of HS2 Ltd between 2018 and 2021, characterises the relationship between the DfT and the delivery body as “strong and close”. He adds that in his time “budget and expenditure was approved in all cases by the DfT and, in some cases, by the Treasury too at regular monthly meetings” ...........
https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2023/sep/29/hs2-cost-overruns-rishi-sunak-jeremy-hunt
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The cost estimates in the original business case for Hs2 were based on very optimistic assumptions, and they were there to provide cover.
No-one who looks at these things thought it was remotely likely to deliver at cost, but this was conveniently ignored by the politicians.
The UK is very poor at infrastructure delivery at scale, with costs much higher than comparable projects in similar economies.
Too many interests with a margin to make, and the knowledge that once started, these deals are hard to unpick.
Same type of escalation has always accompanied nuclear new build......always massively over budget, and years behind schedule.
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What is a disgrace it that it was ever started in the 1st place, be that by Labour or Tories
Disagree. The original purpose of HS2 was to free up space on the countries Victorian rail network. This in turn would have specifically improved local train services. The idea behind HS2 was fine but the actual delivery and management of it has been a fiasco.
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So Tory party policy is to ensure you can't get anywhere quickly on the trains, but also ensure you can't get to any local shops or services within walking distance. What The British People want is to have an hour's drive through city centre traffic whenever they want a pint of milk and a paper, apparently. Who knew?
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Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins
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So Tory party policy is to ensure you can't get anywhere quickly on the trains, but also ensure you can't get to any local shops or services within walking distance. What The British People want is to have an hour's drive through city centre traffic whenever they want a pint of milk and a paper, apparently. Who knew?
MM, do people still buy newspapers? ;)
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So Tory party policy is to ensure you can't get anywhere quickly on the trains, but also ensure you can't get to any local shops or services within walking distance. What The British People want is to have an hour's drive through city centre traffic whenever they want a pint of milk and a paper, apparently. Who knew?
MM, do people still buy newspapers? ;)
My mam still buys the Free Press!
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15 minute cities.
https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45347-most-britons-would-their-area-become-15-minute-nei?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fsociety%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F03%2F06%2Fmost-britons-would-their-area-become-15-minute-nei
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Last year they kicked out Greempeace activists from their conference. This year they kicked out the Leader of the Tory Party on the GLA!
https://twitter.com/miffythegamer/status/1709248253349220426
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''Britain’s political system is broken and voters are exhausted, Rishi Sunak will say on Wednesday as he struggles to wrestle back control of the agenda at a Conservative conference dominated by rival factions, leadership posturing and speculation about HS2''
no flies on risky
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So apparently Sunak is going to cancel HS2 under the argument that he wants to do politics differently.
Does that mean the Tories giving the finger to the North while pouring investment into the South East? How exactly is that meant to be different to the old Tory politics?
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And apparently Sunak is going to announce today that we need a new kind of politics because nothing has changed in 30 years.
Setting aside the mind numbing vacuousness of this comment, he's going to kick off this new era of change by cancelling a big investment project, so that he can cut tax before the election. Which sounds a lot like the sort of politics that has hobbled British performance for years.
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We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!
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Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins
We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!
Raven, I understand your dislike of Sunak, but I’m not sure why you would put the two above comments on this thread.
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Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins
I'm sorry but this misses the point about HS2.
It's NOT about the journey times. That's an incidental benefit.
It's about capacity. In particular, HS2 would have freed up much of the usage of the WCML, ECML and EMML, by putting the fast intercity traffic on new purpose-built lines. That would have freed up a LOT of capacity on the existing lines for more, slower, local trains and freight.
That's why pretty much every serious politician in the North, and every major business leader is in favour of it.
But Sunak knows better.
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Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins
We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!
Raven, I understand your dislike of Sunak, but I’m not sure why you would put the two above comments on this thread.
Why just pick up my 2 posts amongst many others on this thread regarding HS2
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It must be your turn RR
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Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins
We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!
Raven, I understand your dislike of Sunak, but I’m not sure why you would put the two above comments on this thread.
Why just pick up my 2 posts amongst many others on this thread regarding HS2
Calm down. I picked them out because in one you seem to be against HS2 and in the other, unless I have read it wrong, you appear to be chastising Sunak for cancelling it.
Apologies if I read your post incorrectly.
All the other comments are either in favour of continuing with HS2 or, as in my case, stopping it.
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I think there's a few obvious bits.
1. The business case for hs2 was always marginal but that clearly will now look very different and probably a fail on cost benefit.
2. Spending it on the things proposed would always be more sensible, eg in this area a1 upgrade, faster Trainline to Sheffield/cross pennine, Leeds trams etc.
3. Why didn't they realise half of this years ago.
4. It's hard to believe they'll follow through with the new proposals anyway.
I wonder what the other parties will do.
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I'd use the Lee Anderson Test.
That thick-as-mince gobshite is against HS2. Therefore HS2 must be a good thing.
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Hound you are correct I am against HS2 but that comment was in response to a previous post.
As the thread says Sunak is a liar, he knew all along he was cancelling the 2nd leg so he "lied" when saying he hadn't decided. His slogan is long term planning for a brighter future but in his 1st Conference speech he cancels a long term plan which was meant to lead to a brighter future for the North
As for calming down never in a month of Sundays would you upset me picking up.on these 2 posts it was purely a question as to why you had
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Hound you are correct I am against HS2 but that comment was in response to a previous post.
As the thread says Sunak is a liar, he knew all along he was cancelling the 2nd leg so he "lied" when saying he hadn't decided. His slogan is long term planning for a brighter future but in his 1st Conference speech he cancels a long term plan which was meant to lead to a brighter future for the North
As for calming down never in a month of Sundays would you upset me picking up.on these 2 posts it was purely a question as to why you had
Fair enough Raven.
No harm done either way then.
As for the thread title, it could be Any politician (insert a name here) is a liar.
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Agreed, I see there is another already about Starmer
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So Sunak has gone public with his belief that politics has been shit for 30 years.
In totally unrelated news, word is that his team has reached out to Sunak's old mate Cummings for advice on what to do.
One of them summarised Cummings's advice as "Do mental stuff to prove you're not the Establishment."
How long till we get rid of them?
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HS2 was an unwanted waste of money when it was first proposed.
However after spending £billions on it scrapping half of it now whilst the bit going on not linking anywhere is an even bigger waste of money.
Only 6 months ago Hunt was saying HS2 was 'essential' for levellig up and the country's economic prosperity. What's changed then?
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/chancellor-declares-vision-for-hs3-hs4-and-hs5-despite-cost-concerns-on-hs2-08-02-2023/
Good luck to them getting international investment for any future major infrastructure projects. What company is going to invest money in preparing something that might get scrapped six months later. Bonkers.
Vote Tory.
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One of the projects put forward by Sunak instead of HS2 is to extend the Manchester Metro to the Airport. Where it already goes... Still at least he should be able to deliver that!
https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1709588057282740506
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It's very simple.
They really do not give a f**k about the future prosperity of the country.
I don't say that lightly, but the Tory party has long since detached itself from its old position of claiming to be the party of business.
Now it's about saving careers for as many of the headcase, grifter backbenchers as possible.
So a really important infrastructure project has been thrown away, and I will guarantee you that the money "saved" (sic) will be used to finance tax cuts and pork barrel payouts to marginal towns, in an effort to stop the 2024 election being an annihilation.
They know they can't possibly win next year. This is about minimising their losses. And if the country loses as a result, that's secondary.
They should spend 20 years out of Government after next year while we try to rebuild the damage they are insistent on doing right up to the last moment.
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One of the projects put forward by Sunak instead of HS2 is to extend the Manchester Metro to the Airport. Where it already goes... Still at least he should be able to deliver that!
https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1709588057282740506
And this was the map they put out in that press release.
(https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article27842786.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_side_by_side_map.jpg)
How to say "We neither know anything about, nor care about anything outside the South East" without actually saying...
That map looks like it's been cacked together by a work experience kid who is online to fail Geography GCSE.
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It’s going to be alright though.
Labour are guaranteed to win the GE and put everything in place for a brighter future.
I for one am really looking forward to it.
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HS2 north of Birmingham never made economic sense given it's ridiculously high cost.
The project was always primarily about benefiting London - increasing rail capacity into London and extending London's commuter belt.
The extensions beyond Birmingham were always about political posturing not economics.
I welcome the demise of HS2 North. However it is criminal that the Tories have wasted so much public money on this project to date.
I welcome the idea at least of instead using the money saved to invest in other transport infrastructure projects outside of London which actually do make sense in terms of cost benefit analysis. It's something I've argued for and has been one of my main criticisms of the current Government.
I don't for a second trust the Tories to deliver on them though. Not given their record on delivering infrastructure projects and their baffling prioritisation on reducing Government debt over encouraging economic growth through such spend.
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HS2 north of Birmingham never made economic sense given it's ridiculously high cost.
The project was always primarily about benefiting London - increasing rail capacity into London and extending London's commuter belt.
The extensions beyond Birmingham were always about political posturing not economics.
I welcome the demise of HS2 North. However it is criminal that the Tories have wasted so much public money on this project to date.
I welcome the idea at least of instead using the money saved to invest in other transport infrastructure projects outside of London which actually do make sense in terms of cost benefit analysis. It's something I've argued for and has been one of my main criticisms of the current Government.
I don't for a second trust the Tories to deliver on them though. Not given their record on delivering infrastructure projects and their baffling prioritisation on reducing Government debt over encouraging economic growth through such spend.
Well if we get a Labour Government next year as there is very little left to plunder. Maybe they will re visit the Pension schemes especially the mine workers scheme.
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One of the projects put forward by Sunak instead of HS2 is to extend the Manchester Metro to the Airport. Where it already goes... Still at least he should be able to deliver that!
https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1709588057282740506
I saw that. The folks of Manchester I know thought it was scandalous.
Sunak should have been made to book a train at peak times from London to Manchester for the conference.
We have one of the worst rail systems in the developed world.
Yet we still het idiots saying bollox about the opposition rather than face reality and criticise a government that has blown the country out its arse.
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World rankings for railway infrastructure.
data
Countries Railroad infrastructure quality, 2019 Global rank Available data
Japan 6.8 1 2009 - 2019
Hong Kong 6.5 2 2009 - 2019
Switzerland 6.4 3 2009 - 2019
South Korea 5.9 4 2009 - 2019
Singapore 5.8 5 2009 - 2019
Netherlands 5.7 6 2009 - 2019
Finland 5.5 7 2009 - 2019
Spain 5.4 8 2009 - 2019
Taiwan 5.4 9 2009 - 2019
Austria 5.3 10 2009 - 2019
USA 5.2 11 2009 - 2019
Malaysia 5.1 12 2009 - 2019
France 5 13 2009 - 2019
Luxembourg 5 14 2009 - 2019
Germany 4.9 15 2009 - 2019
Russia 4.9 16 2009 - 2019
Panama 4.8 17 2009 - 2019
Indonesia 4.7 18 2009 - 2019
Latvia 4.6 19 2009 - 2019
Lithuania 4.6 20 2009 - 2019
Canada 4.5 21 2009 - 2019
China 4.5 22 2009 - 2019
Czechia 4.5 23 2009 - 2019
Denmark 4.5 24 2009 - 2019
Norway 4.5 25 2009 - 2019
Saudi Arabia 4.5 26 2009 - 2019
Australia 4.4 27 2009 - 2019
India 4.4 28 2009 - 2019
UK 4.3 29 2009 - 2019
Kazakhstan 4.2 30 2009 - 2019
Portugal 4.2 31 2009 - 2019
Ukraine 4.2 32 2009 - 2019
Belgium 4.1 33 2009 - 2019
Italy 4.1 34 2009 - 2019
Tajikistan 4.1 35 2009 - 2019
Ireland 4 36 2009 - 2019
Kenya 4 37 2009 - 2019
Slovakia 4 38 2009 - 2019
Sweden 4 39 2009 - 2019
Georgia 3.9 40 2009 - 2019
Morocco 3.9 41 2009 - 2019
New Zealand 3.9 42 2009 - 2019
Poland 3.9 43 2009 - 2019
Algeria 3.8 44 2009 - 2019
Egypt 3.8 45 2009 - 2019
Hungary 3.8 46 2009 - 2019
Pakistan 3.8 47 2009 - 2019
Sri Lanka 3.8 48 2009 - 2019
Iran 3.7 49 2010 - 2019
Israel 3.7 50 2009 - 2019
Botswana 3.6 51 2009 - 2019
Vietnam 3.6 52 2009 - 2019
Mongolia 3.5 53 2009 - 2019
Turkey 3.5 54 2009 - 2019
Namibia 3.4 55 2009 - 2019
Mexico 3.3 56 2009 - 2019
Chile 3.2 57 2009 - 2019
Tanzania 3.2 58 2009 - 2019
Tunisia 3.2 59 2009 - 2019
Armenia 3.1 60 2009 - 2019
Bangladesh 3.1 61 2009 - 2019
Bulgaria 3.1 62 2009 - 2019
Estonia 3.1 63 2009 - 2019
Montenegro 3.1 64 2009 - 2019
Slovenia 3.1 65 2009 - 2019
Ethiopia 3 66 2009 - 2019
Greece 3 67 2009 - 2019
Moldova 3 68 2010 - 2019
South Africa 3 69 2009 - 2019
Ivory Coast 2.9 70 2009 - 2019
Peru 2.9 71 2009 - 2019
Senegal 2.9 72 2009 - 2019
Kyrgyzstan 2.8 73 2009 - 2019
Romania 2.8 74 2009 - 2019
Thailand 2.8 75 2009 - 2019
Argentina 2.7 76 2009 - 2019
Cameroon 2.7 77 2009 - 2019
Bolivia 2.6 78 2009 - 2019
Gabon 2.6 79 2012 - 2019
Jordan 2.6 80 2009 - 2019
Mozambique 2.6 81 2009 - 2019
Serbia 2.6 82 2009 - 2019
Brazil 2.5 83 2009 - 2019
Burkina Faso 2.5 84 2009 - 2019
Croatia 2.4 85 2009 - 2019
Philippines 2.4 86 2009 - 2019
Bosnia & Herz. 2.2 87 2009 - 2019
Malawi 2.1 88 2009 - 2019
Mauritania 2.1 89 2009 - 2019
North Macedonia 2.1 90 2009 - 2019
Zambia 2.1 91 2009 - 2019
Madagascar 2 92 2009 - 2019
DR Congo 1.9 93 2016 - 2019
Ghana 1.9 94 2009 - 2019
Zimbabwe 1.9 95 2009 - 2019
Nigeria 1.8 96 2009 - 2019
Benin 1.7 97 2009 - 2019
Colombia 1.7 98 2009 - 2019
Venezuela 1.5 99 2009 - 2019
Albania 1.2 100 2009 - 2019
Uruguay 1.2 101. 2009 - 2019
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So that sub-GCSE map actually comes from a Govt produced document.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651d64646a6955000d78b2e0/network-north-transforming-british-transport.pdf
I really wish the quality of that map was the main thing to get pissed off about.
But go through that document and see how much this bunch of Kitsons thinks about South Yorkshire.
Electrification of the Sheffield-Donny line? Nope.
Electrification of the EMML from Sheffield to Leicester (cancelled under Cameron's Austerity a decade back)? Nope.
A 20thcentury (nevermind 21st century) link from South Yorks to Manchester? Nope.
They are proposing two new rail services for South Yorks. One from Stockbridge to Sheffield. One from Orgreave to Sheffield. Each of them will service maybe a few dozen travellers an hour at most. Each of them serves a community in Red Wall seats that the Tories won in 2019.
They do not give a f**k about us, barring giving a little present to the nobodies who held those seats for a brief moment.
No strategy. No vision. Just micro-pork barrel politics.
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Makes nonsense of the compulsory purchase of my nephews home on the new build at Mexborough about 4 years back
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That £36bil for "Network North" is highly misleading. For a start £14bil is earmarked for filling potholes across the entire country. That's repairing neglected road infrastructure that hasn't been kept up to date with.
There's nothing transformational in that.
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And if the idea of cancelling HS2 is to save £36bil, how can they commit to spending it elsewhere?
The answer is they have no intention of investing it elsewhere. Many of the network north projects are existing projects. It's not new investment, they are merely re-announcing stuff that's already going on.
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Interesting to see India just above UK on that chart. Add food quality and journey satisfaction to that and India is lightyears ahead. Still the UK is sliding down the snakes on just about every square of the board compared to most other countries.
So much more valuable things to spend money on re public transport than HS2, we're left with both the Tories and Labour not having any sensible vision about the future of public transport. Changes are going to happen fairly soon and the infastructure just won't be there. The big change will be when owning cars becomes a silly luxury and driverless takes over. Then you dial a driverless hire car, it turns up within 10 mins, drops you at the rail station and you get the same at the other end. This will be in place within 20 years max.... or will in Germany, France, Italy, and India. Until then, public transport should be entirely free.
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Compare the difference in attitude towards big London based infrastructure projects.
Crossrail comes in at £19 bil. Not an eyebrow raised anywhere. Crossrail 2 is still on the cards, that'll cost a lot more.
They simply won't invest in anything substantial beyond the south East.
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
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Lets face it they are just setting out an agenda for if they lose the next election. If Labour come to power and dont carry out the promises they will make over the next 12months they will turnaround as opposition and say well that's what we were going to do
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
but you're not upset about it aye?
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So that sub-GCSE map actually comes from a Govt produced document.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651d64646a6955000d78b2e0/network-north-transforming-british-transport.pdf
I really wish the quality of that map was the main thing to get pissed off about.
But go through that document and see how much this bunch of Kitsons thinks about South Yorkshire.
Electrification of the Sheffield-Donny line? Nope.
Electrification of the EMML from Sheffield to Leicester (cancelled under Cameron's Austerity a decade back)? Nope.
A 20thcentury (nevermind 21st century) link from South Yorks to Manchester? Nope.
They are proposing two new rail services for South Yorks. One from Stockbridge to Sheffield. One from Orgreave to Sheffield. Each of them will service maybe a few dozen travellers an hour at most. Each of them serves a community in Red Wall seats that the Tories won in 2019.
They do not give a f**k about us, barring giving a little present to the nobodies who held those seats for a brief moment.
No strategy. No vision. Just micro-pork barrel politics.
Apologies. I didn't drill far enough down. You have to get right into the detailed text to see the bigger plans. For some unfathomable reason, they only include the Stockbridge and Orgreave links in the summary.
They ARE proposing to electrify Donny-Sheffield, along with electrifying the Hope Valley line. The former is very welcome. Finally. The latter is a cheap compromise, when reinstating the Woodhead line would give a much better solution.
No mention on timescales for electrifying the MML from Sheffield
That's just criminal for a city that size to have no mainline electric service going into the middle of the 21st century.
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
but you're not upset about it aye?
Not enough to make me want to f**k off and live on the other side of the world.
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
but you're not upset about it aye?
Not enough to make me want to f**k off and live on the other side of the world.
as I said you're not upset aye?
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If the election goes the way most sane people want it to, risky will be on the first plane to the US.
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I thought that a Labour victory was a foregone conclusion Syd.
But here you are saying “if”.
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Warning, warning, yet another woke warning .............
''Science hasn’t gone ‘woke’ – the only people meddling with it are the Tories''
''he science secretary, Michelle Donelan, told the Conservative party conference this week that the Tories are “depoliticising science”. Or as a Conservative party announcement later put it, in case you didn’t get the culture-war reference, they are “kicking woke ideology out of science”, thereby “safeguarding scientific research from the denial of biology and the steady creep of political correctness” ........
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/04/science-research-sex-gender-michelle-donelan-conservatives-conference
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And if the idea of cancelling HS2 is to save £36bil, how can they commit to spending it elsewhere?
The answer is they have no intention of investing it elsewhere. Many of the network north projects are existing projects. It's not new investment, they are merely re-announcing stuff that's already going on.
Indeed, and in some, (many?), cases the base infrastructure already exists....
http://donvalleyrailway.org
http://donvalleyrailway.org/thefuture/
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Actually the line through Orgreave already exists. They are just going to put a bus stop type mini station by a new housing estate. All good, but hardly strategically transformational.
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All journeys start with just one step.
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The plan for A1 widening in Northumberland was proposed in Oct 2021 and has been put back 4 times now until june 2024 10 years after Osborne gave the go ahead.
New development my arse Rich-ie
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It’s going to be alright though.
Labour are guaranteed to win the GE and put everything in place for a brighter future.
I for one am really looking forward to it.
I'm guessing that any Govt that follows the Tories will find a note saying " no money left this time either"
Personally I hope Labour are largest Party but need the Lib Dems to have a Majority
As part of the agreement we get a Ref on PR of some kind as it surely has to be better than extremism of any kind and hopefully the 13 million people who don't vote would think that their vote would actually count for something.
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The plan for A1 widening in Northumberland was proposed in Oct 2021 and has been put back 4 times now until june 2024 10 years after Osborne gave the go ahead.
New development my arse Rich-ie
Are they now going to widen the A1 all the way down ? I own a piece of land that borders it, which was bought as an investment and I don’t do anything with, I was thinking of maybe selling it but if they are I’ll hold onto it a bit longer
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I wouldn't hold your breath
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
but you're not upset about it aye?
Not enough to make me want to f**k off and live on the other side of the world.
as I said you're not upset aye?
I seem to recall a scruffy, gobby programs seller going up to the back of the South stand , spouting off about , being done with this country and ferking off to OZ for a better life, circa 2008?
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Here's a thought, I wonder how much, if any, the EU put into building HS2?
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
but you're not upset about it aye?
Not enough to make me want to f**k off and live on the other side of the world.
as I said you're not upset aye?
I seem to recall a scruffy, gobby programs seller going up to the back of the South stand , spouting off about , being done with this country and ferking off to OZ for a better life, circa 2008?
What, after 11 years of Labour control?
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A new local station for us at Haxby on the York/Scarboro line has been in the pipeline for many years. All the funding was supposed to be in place a couple of years ago but the project continued to be delayed for one reason or another.
Now all of a sudden, it's a new Network North project!
Network North? It's not particularly Northern and it doesn't connect.
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What is it then, Network South? It's more North than Manchester.
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What is it then, Network South? It's more North than Manchester.
Is Cambridge in the North, or Portsmouth? Or Plymouth?
All receiving funding for Network North!
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
I refer you to the title of this thread.
What it is, is reheated pizza with an egg on top. A lot are existing projects either already funded and in progress, catching up on the maintainance of neglected infrastructure or revived previously cancelled projects.
The funding might total 36bn but it is not all new funding by any stretch. They cancelled HS2 to save money, not to spend it on new things.
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Bigger issue RD. There's no strategy to this.
Building a station in Haxby or in Orgreave isn't part of a strategy aimed at kick starting the economy of the North.
Those are isolated little capabilities. The sort that a competent Government should be assessing and supporting or not on a regular basis.
Putting them forward as part of a strategy enabled by the binning of HS2 is, frankly, insulting folks' intelligence.
Although doubtless there'll be the usual suspects on here volunteering to have their intelligence insulted.
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
I refer you to the title of this thread.
What it is, is reheated pizza with an egg on top. A lot are existing projects either already funded and in progress, catching up on the maintainance of neglected infrastructure or revived previously cancelled projects.
The funding might total 36bn but it is not all new funding by any stretch. They cancelled HS2 to save money, not to spend it on new things.
Of course, they cancelled HS2 to save money. the intention is to spend that saved money on better things.
The only thing wrong with the project in the eyes of some of the lefties is that it's come from Sunak, and had it come from Starmer it would have been marvellous.
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Given the number of bell ends in this Govt, you'd think they'd know one Hampton from another...
https://twitter.com/LouHaigh/status/1709941491370778722
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
I'm sure I read somewhere that no budget had been agreed for the Birminham to Manchedter leg. So where is the money for all his new "schemes" coming from?
Also is this purely his own decision or is it agreed with his Cabinet snd should it not have gone to Parliament to ratify the decision.?
Is Sunak becoming a dictator now?
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
I refer you to the title of this thread.
What it is, is reheated pizza with an egg on top. A lot are existing projects either already funded and in progress, catching up on the maintainance of neglected infrastructure or revived previously cancelled projects.
The funding might total 36bn but it is not all new funding by any stretch. They cancelled HS2 to save money, not to spend it on new things.
Of course, they cancelled HS2 to save money. the intention is to spend that saved money on better things.
The only thing wrong with the project in the eyes of some of the lefties is that it's come from Sunak, and had it come from Starmer it would have been marvellous.
My point is it's creative accounting, slight of hand. Originally we were getting a big fat steak, HS2 and various stations, road and rail improvements and so on.
HS2 went from being a steak to a chicken to an egg. A very expensive egg.
Now apparently for the same investment as Hs2 and various other prprojects, we just get the various projects and a fraction of HS2. An egg on reheated pizza.
Oh and it's an old pizza we have to share now.
Where as down in London, they continue to be regularly served up steak. Even HS2 remains a beef burger for London.
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This is turning into a train crash.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1709914868206223699
It's pretty clear what has happened.
1) Someone got photo'd with a document saying HS2 was unter review.
2) The topic has dominated politics for a fortnight.
3) Sunak refusing to discuss it made him look weak.
4) So a rushed decision had to be made.
5) That required a semblance of strategic support, so the DfT hurriedly put together a doggy bag of all the things that might be done, are being done or recently have been done to the transport system.
6) That gets done so hurriedly, there's no time to review it. So you present it in Manchester with a map showing Manchester next door to Blackpool and Hull 20 miles north of the Humber.
7) Then everything starts to unravel as you realise the document is shot through with errors and stuff that there is no intention of funding.
Get the useless f**kers out.
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
Sunak also said (as chancellor) that all the travel projects announced under Johnson (which is most of what he announced yesterday) were already funded AS WELL AS HS2.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/04/hs2-rishi-sunaks-36bn-in-transport-funding-is-it-new-or-just-repackaged
Once again we refer you to the title of this thread.
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Another one from the oh-so carefully prepared documents that the DfT has produced to say where the money is going.
"a £1 billion roads package in the North could fund schemes like the A1-A19 Hickleton Bypass in Doncaster."
That's going to be some A1-A19 link road if it has to by-pass Hickleton.
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The trouble is though all this deny and conflate from this utter useless government has got poor old Starmer in such a tizz the bloke dare not utter anything for the threat of it being regurgitated back at his door sometime in the future.
Is this really the type of weak willed pussy footing around leadership the country needs after this complete cluster f*ck of a government?
Where's this fellas gonads, he seems to be missing a pair.
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Don't vote Tory then, if that's what you believe. It shouldn't be difficult, after all, They'll soon be out of power and unable to prove you right anyway.
Time for you now to look forward to a whole new wonderful world of honesty, prosperity and fairness under the guidance of Keir Starmer!
but you're not upset about it aye?
Not enough to make me want to f**k off and live on the other side of the world.
as I said you're not upset aye?
I seem to recall a scruffy, gobby programs seller going up to the back of the South stand , spouting off about , being done with this country and ferking off to OZ for a better life, circa 2008?
What, after 11 years of Labour control?
Yup ! And now he has the temerity to criticise his ex Country, bet the Aussies love him!
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Kay Burley (on the revalation that Sunak made the video announcing the scrapping of HS2 in Downing Street - thus before conference in Manchester that began on Sunday) - They told us all week that no decision had been made on HS2 & it was made... they totally lied to me... they lied to my face.
Mhari Aurora - By being disingenuous with us, it looks like they've been disingenuous with the public as well.
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1709829067124388029
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Why are members of this forum moaning about the loss of a ridiculously expensive waste of tax payers money that if it was completed would make this side of the Pennines worse off?
I didn’t think much to the Eastern Leg that was going to have no bearing whatsoever on us in Doncaster!
Why is COPOUT criticising the Tori’s he should be thanking them for schemes which will directly benefit our region!
It’s like listening to kids who have just lost a game of Marbles.
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The trouble is though all this deny and conflate from this utter useless government has got poor old Starmer in such a tizz the bloke dare not utter anything for the threat of it being regurgitated back at his door sometime in the future.
Is this really the type of weal willed pussy footing around leadership the country needs after this complete cluster f*ck of a government?
Where's this fellas gonads, he seems to be missing a pair.
As someone wrote on here a few days ago, the internet lays everyone open to ridicule and criticism from anyone who can read.
Forever, politicians have lied their way through their careers and in the past very few people would have known what was true or otherwise.
These days it seems that the general public know more about how to run the country than the people who actually do the job.
Fear not though, the next PM (Starmer) will listen to the experts on this forum and put right all the wrongdoings of the current government.
I am really looking forward to the improvements and much better way of life.
I just hope he doesn’t take any advice on how to keep the pensioners under the cosh.
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Why are members of this forum moaning about the loss of a ridiculously expensive waste of tax payers money that if it was completed would make this side of the Pennines worse off?
I didn’t think much to the Eastern Leg that was going to have no bearing whatsoever on us in Doncaster!
Why is COPOUT criticising the Tori’s he should be thanking them for schemes which will directly benefit our region!
It’s like listening to kids who have just lost a game of Marbles.
HS2 in its original form would have benefitted Doncaster. Donny would still have had its fast link to London perhaps not as regular but there would be a trade off. Instead it would have had more frequent and more reliable local rail services. Doncaster would have benefited from much more freight moving through its rail system. It would have benefitted business like Amazon. Donny has always been a rail hub and that would have been enhanced.
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Why are members of this forum moaning about the loss of a ridiculously expensive waste of tax payers money that if it was completed would make this side of the Pennines worse off?
I didn’t think much to the Eastern Leg that was going to have no bearing whatsoever on us in Doncaster!
Why is COPOUT criticising the Tori’s he should be thanking them for schemes which will directly benefit our region!
It’s like listening to kids who have just lost a game of Marbles.
HS2 in its original form would have benefitted Doncaster. Donny would still have had its fast link to London perhaps not as regular but their would be a trade off. Instead it would have had more frequent and more reliable local rail services. Doncaster would have benefited from much more freight moving through its rail system. It would have benefitted business like Amazon. Donny has always been a rail hub and that would have been enhanced.
But how long would that have taken to achieve?
I keep hearing that it would have been another twenty years before HS2 got to Manchester so how much longer than that would it have added before the Eastern leg was finished.
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Why are members of this forum moaning about the loss of a ridiculously expensive waste of tax payers money that if it was completed would make this side of the Pennines worse off?
I didn’t think much to the Eastern Leg that was going to have no bearing whatsoever on us in Doncaster!
Why is COPOUT criticising the Tori’s he should be thanking them for schemes which will directly benefit our region!
It’s like listening to kids who have just lost a game of Marbles.
HS2 in its original form would have benefitted Doncaster. Donny would still have had its fast link to London perhaps not as regular but their would be a trade off. Instead it would have had more frequent and more reliable local rail services. Doncaster would have benefited from much more freight moving through its rail system. It would have benefitted business like Amazon. Donny has always been a rail hub and that would have been enhanced.
But how long would that have taken to achieve?
I keep hearing that it would have been another twenty years before HS2 got to Manchester so how much longer than that would it have added before the Eastern leg was finished.
It's better to be moving forward than stagnating or more likely declining.
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Sunak said “every single penny” saved by scrapping the Birmingham to Manchester HS2 leg will be reinvested “in hundreds of new transport projects in the North and the Midlands and across the country”.
After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.
Roads minister Richard Holden tells Newcastle Chronicle, Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.
https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1709908649177461048
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Why are members of this forum moaning about the loss of a ridiculously expensive waste of tax payers money that if it was completed would make this side of the Pennines worse off?
I didn’t think much to the Eastern Leg that was going to have no bearing whatsoever on us in Doncaster!
Why is COPOUT criticising the Tori’s he should be thanking them for schemes which will directly benefit our region!
It’s like listening to kids who have just lost a game of Marbles.
As explained above it was a waste of money to start with. Now it is an even bigger waste of money to scrap as it has been started.
Worse it also affects global financial confidence and infrastructure investment in the UK. What firm is now going to invest £billions on the expectation something is going ahead - to find it can be scrapped halfway through.
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Why are members of this forum moaning about the loss of a ridiculously expensive waste of tax payers money that if it was completed would make this side of the Pennines worse off?
I didn’t think much to the Eastern Leg that was going to have no bearing whatsoever on us in Doncaster!
Why is COPOUT criticising the Tori’s he should be thanking them for schemes which will directly benefit our region!
It’s like listening to kids who have just lost a game of Marbles.
As explained above it was a waste of money to start with. Now it is an even bigger waste of money to scrap as it has been started.
Worse it also affects global financial confidence and infrastructure investment in the UK. What firm is now going to invest £billions on the expectation something is going ahead - to find it can be scrapped halfway through.
What business will invest in regions of the country the government has given up on? It's a catastrophe.
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The more I think about this the more furious I am. This unelected little man can somehow put a stop to a long term national infrastructure project on a whim. For petty political gain.
If he wants to fundamentally change the parameters by which he was elected. Then surely he must go to the country first.
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The more I think about this the more furious I am. This unelected little man can somehow put a stop to a long term national infrastructure project on a whim. For petty political gain.
If he wants to fundamentally change the parameters by which he was elected. Then surely he must go to the country first.
Can you give us a list of all of the potential investors in HS 2 we lost. Answer on the back of a stamp please?
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The more I think about this the more furious I am. This unelected little man can somehow put a stop to a long term national infrastructure project on a whim. For petty political gain.
If he wants to fundamentally change the parameters by which he was elected. Then surely he must go to the country first.
Can you give us a list of all of the potential investors in HS 2 we lost. Answer on the back of a stamp please?
That is not what I am talking about. He stood on a platform that believed in Levelling up that promoted HS2 as the means to achieve that. That's a big part of what the red wall voted for. Isn't it?
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Potential investors isn't the point. Given the infrastructure business would invest. Speak to Andy Haldane.
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Not at all surprising that the usual suspects have turned up on this thread.
Bent over,touching toes and then taking and proverbial taking it in a dark place til they are purple or gammon coloured in the face.
Then their argument becomes,ah but the opposition.
Our rail network is a disgrace,not fit for purpose.
Levelling up is a facking joke,not fit for purpose. But...
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
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If it’s any consolation RD, the Labour Party also appears to be split down the middle.
They really ARE all the same matey.
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If it’s any consolation RD, the Labour Party also appears to be split down the middle.
They really ARE all the same matey.
The Labour Party has been noticably quiet so far but I'm prepared to wait to hear what they have to say. I'm not impressed with Starmer giving his OK to Rosebank.
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Change may to will
.
Somebody disagrees with you and thinks you're a bellend.
What do you do?
Resort to libellous slurs.
Rein it in.
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Change may to will
.
Somebody disagrees with you and thinks you're a bellend.
What do you do?
Resort to libellous slurs.
Rein it in.
You like making veiled threats don’t you.? By the way read you sick post again and do some serious self reflection!
You seem to be suffering from some sort of personality disorder, go see your Doctor!
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Change may to will
.
Somebody disagrees with you and thinks you're a bellend.
What do you do?
Resort to libellous slurs.
Rein it in.
You like making veiled threats don’t you.? By the way read you sick post again and do some serious self reflection!
You seem to be suffering from some sort of personality disorder, go see your Doctor!
No. It wasn't veiled.
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Okay this is a major diversion. Let's get back on topic..
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Good idea RD.
Unfortunately the usual suspects won't allow that.
They just attack fellow posters,the opposition and defend the government.
This whole levelling up and high speed rail link has been a disaster and covered by lies from the Government and Rishi.
Some people are so blinkered they won't have it.
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What is it then, Network South? It's more North than Manchester.
Is Cambridge in the North, or Portsmouth? Or Plymouth?
All receiving funding for Network North!
That will be the same idiots that produced the green map BST posted on page 4 of the same thread,previous page.
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Change may to will
.
Somebody disagrees with you and thinks you're a bellend.
What do you do?
Resort to libellous slurs.
Rein it in.
You like making veiled threats don’t you.? By the way read you sick post again and do some serious self reflection!
You seem to be suffering from some sort of personality disorder, go see your Doctor!
Corbyn dealt with a keyboard warrior quite well I thought.
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back on topic
''HS2: Government 'misleading' people over Leamside line reopening''
''The government has been accused of "misleading" people over the reopening of a rail line using funds from HS2's scrapped northern leg.
On Wednesday, Rishi Sunak announced plans to invest £36bn in projects around the North and Midlands including the North East's Leamside line.
However, mentions of it were quickly removed from the government's website''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-67018745
The government should be declared bankrupt ............... of rational thnking
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back on topic
''HS2: Government 'misleading' people over Leamside line reopening''
''The government has been accused of "misleading" people over the reopening of a rail line using funds from HS2's scrapped northern leg.
On Wednesday, Rishi Sunak announced plans to invest £36bn in projects around the North and Midlands including the North East's Leamside line.
However, mentions of it were quickly removed from the government's website''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-67018745
The government should be declared bankrupt ............... of rational thnking
The government being bankrupt is pretty much the case. Which is why Starmer would be wise not to make any big promises. He might be a safe pair of hands to nurse us through difficult times.
I would not believe anyone who offers more than that.
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HS2, all those that had their homes and businesses taken under compulsory purchase orders will be happy to know that they are being sold again by the tory government to drive the nails in and to pay compensation for contracts broken.
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
It certainly does, and I feel your pain!
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
It certainly does, and I feel your pain!
much too late, as it shows in your comment
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BB
Your Tories are letting you down badly. You can see how they are defunding the area you live in.
They have let you down
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
It certainly does, and I feel your pain!
much too late, as it shows in your comment
The least you can do as you whinge from afar is make light of the situation you face and show a bit of appreciation for River Don's humour.
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BB
What on earth is little Sunak doing for you?
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
It certainly does, and I feel your pain!
much too late, as it shows in your comment
The least you can do as you whinge from afar is make light of the situation you face and show a bit of appreciation for River Don's humour.
For such a thin skinned person knowledge doesn't soak in too quick aye?
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BB
Your Tories are letting you down badly. You can see how they are defunding the area you live in.
They have let you down
RD, They are NOT my Tories! I've said umpteen times that the only time I voted Tory was for Tony Blair last century in 1997, but I will stand up for the Tories EVERY TIME against Labour and its supporters.
As a matter of fact, what's made me detest the Labour Party even more than its piss-poor leader Keir Starmer is some of the Labour supporters on this forum.
I simply do not want to be on their side.
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BB
I'm not a staunch labour voter.
Can't you see these people are crippling the chances of the North?
What have they got to offer?
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
It certainly does, and I feel your pain!
much too late, as it shows in your comment
The least you can do as you whinge from afar is make light of the situation you face and show a bit of appreciation for River Don's humour.
For such a thin skinned person knowledge doesn't soak in too quick aye?
Knowledge is the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
NOT through reading The Guardian.
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
Just seen this. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Etc!
the truth hurts bb
It certainly does, and I feel your pain!
much too late, as it shows in your comment
The least you can do as you whinge from afar is make light of the situation you face and show a bit of appreciation for River Don's humour.
For such a thin skinned person knowledge doesn't soak in too quick aye?
Knowledge is the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
NOT through reading The Guardian.
such a shame with your thin skin it leaks out aye?
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
I almost agree with that. The divide is right down the middle of what the Tory party used to be. The moderate Tories have been mostly driven out. It's easy to forget but over the last 7-8 years, the Tory party has lurched hugely towards the Far Right. No Tory party in our lifetimes before this present one would have countenanced having a would be fascist like Braverman anywhere near the Cabinet.
That's why it is vital that they are kicked out next year, whatever the shortcomings of Starmer's Labour alternative. If we as a country choose to throw our lot in with a gang that offer nothing but Far Right Culture War and a total rejection of Objective Truth, we are going into a very dark place.
We WILL kick them out though. Because we are a decent people, despite the small minority that would gladly enable would-be fascists.
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BB
I'm not a staunch labour voter.
Can't you see these people are crippling the chances of the North?
What have they got to offer?
RD. I assume you're still in your comedy mode, and take it you're just being ironic about the chances of The Labour Party being more generous than the Tories regarding the North?
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Bang on cue, here's the Transport Secretary denying Objective Truth.
https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1710037828875219024
So the hundreds of millions of pounds that will have to be paid out to lay off HS2 contractors will be paid for by selling off compulsory purchased land.
Which is fine as a line, if you think voters are too f**king thick to realise that the Government has already spent hundreds of millions buying that land.
That sums up their attitude to Tory supporters. They genuinely think Tory supporters are too thick to get this.
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It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.
I almost agree with that. The divide is right down the middle of what the Tory party used to be. The moderate Tories have been mostly driven out. It's easy to forget but over the last 7-8 years, the Tory party has lurched hugely towards the Far Right. No Tory party in our lifetimes before this present one would have countenanced having a would be fascist like Braverman anywhere near the Cabinet.
That's why it is vital that they are kicked out next year, whatever the shortcomings of Starmer's Labour alternative. If we as a country choose to throw our lot in with a gang that offer nothing but Far Right Culture War and a total rejection of Objective Truth, we are going into a very dark place.
We WILL kick them out though. Because we are a decent people, despite the small minority that would gladly enable would-be fascists.
What do you mean 'would be fascists?' I thought, according to you they were already fascists.
RD, If you believe what this bloke is saying you deserve equally everything you get. Somehow, I think you're better than that.
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As ever BB, you don't read what I write but instead answer what you think I write.
I have always said Braverman WOULD BEa fascist if she thought she could get away with it. Fortunately this country is full of better people than the likes of you who would turn a blind eye to her. So she won't get away with it.
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BST, if you were a better person than me I'd have to seriously consider my role in life. As it stands, you only have to look at the quality of your disciples on this forum to realise that you're far from that.
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BST, if you were a better person than me I'd have to seriously consider my role in life. As it stands, you only have to look at the quality of your disciples on this forum to realise that you're far from that.
Jeez, If you must invoke region then you'll need to get Steve's ok
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BB
Your Tories are letting you down badly. You can see how they are defunding the area you live in.
They have let you down
RD, They are NOT my Tories! I've said umpteen times that the only time I voted Tory was for Tony Blair last century in 1997, but I will stand up for the Tories EVERY TIME against Labour and its supporters.
As a matter of fact, what's made me detest the Labour Party even more than its piss-poor leader Keir Starmer is some of the Labour supporters on this forum.
I simply do not want to be on their side.
I rarely vote Labour.
I just support them against the lying Tory supporters. Especially the ones on this forum who defended and supported Johnson and his lies throughout his stint as PM. And who now defend and support Sunak and his lies in his term as PM.
I simply do not want to be on their side due to the damage they have done to the country.
Vote Tory.
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Rutherglen & Hamilton West, not sure your vote is required anyway bb
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Important to note Sunak is selling off the land that would be used for HS2 now. So not only is it impossible for any successors to reverse his decision, he can also set up his mates with some cheap land that was previously acquired by the taxpayer at great expense.
He's doing this unilaterally, as an unelected PM.
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I understand how our political system works - you vote for individual MPs and Parliament chooses the PM.
But that system is so antiquated. It is from a time before there were recognised political parties.
Sunak is making these decisions without reference to Parliament. He's doing so, because he nominally has been granted executive power by the fact that no-one stood against him last year when the position on Leader of the Tory party became vacant yet again.
Both major parties and the LDs have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.
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There's no point in keeping it as it won't be reversed, but equally if they were clever politically they'd wait. Give labour a decision to make. Labour have vocally criticised it so give them the opportunity to reverse it if they so wish. This gives them an easy way out. Politically the conservatives should be thinking of the long term, they're not.
I still don't think HS2 makes sense post covid and I doubt labour would have reversed the decision either, but now they have an easy excuse not to. I also don't think the cost of the line to Euston from the other London station is worth it, that money could be far better spent elsewhere.
As for the rest of the Tory stuff, what reason is there to vote for them, that they're not labour? They've no ideas, no strategy and a number of front benchers who should be nowhere near government. I've no doubt Sunak could be competent and a very good leader, he's done some things quite well. But he's leading a party that doesn't really in 2023 align with what he wants to do and he doesn't have the ability to stop them, which in itself shows weakness. ON the other side is Starmer who's massively changed his party. The left hate it but he's managed it and got them in the place he wants. Yes there will be problems when he doesn't do half of what others want him to do, but that's in the future. Right now he's the only viable PM at the next election despite his weaknesses.
But, we shouldn't remember we vote for MPs not presidents.
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Both major parties and the Lads have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.
I think a lot of labour party members could make that point about Keir Starmer as leader couldn't they?
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Speaking of Sunak telling lies
Did you attend any parties?
NO!
Did anyone watch Partygate?
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Both major parties and the Lads have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.
I think a lot of labour party members could make that point about Keir Starmer as leader couldn't they?
If they don't like what he's doing, they can press to have him voted out.
The issue is that most Labour party members are prepared to stick with him. The noise comes from a small but very vocal minority of the membership, many of whom weren't members before they got a chance to join for £3 and vote in Corbyn.
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Vanuatu puts the tory party to shame and elects it's third PM within a month .......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD0FzBTJm1k
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Interesting info from Patrick Vallance on the role of Sunak in the Covid conundrum.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-inquiry-rishi-sunak-rejected-medical-advice-pay-self-isolate-patrick-vallance-diaries-2663333
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Both major parties and the Lads have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.
I think a lot of labour party members could make that point about Keir Starmer as leader couldn't they?
If they don't like what he's doing, they can press to have him voted out.
The issue is that most Labour party members are prepared to stick with him. The noise comes from a small but very vocal minority of the membership, many of whom weren't members before they got a chance to join for £3 and vote in Corbyn.
Off topic, sorry, but I can't let this dribble go without comment.
Untrue rhetoric there. There are a great many long standing members who've been kicked out of the party for trumped up reasons. The party central office has taken control of some constuencies with a desire to have Starmerite candidates installed.
And then yes, lots of members have just left through bullying, disillusionment, etc. Some of them joined up with the Corbyn movement, but actually many of those were ex members who'd given up with engagement in the Blair toxicity.
Party money now comes from business and individuals out for benefit, gain, from the next government. They'll be back with the Tories soon enough.
Labour is not democratic. And so the bleeding obvious is that it therefore will not be representing "the people". There's a very dark future ahead.
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Please excuse my naivety but isn’t HS2 embedded in legislation and would therefore need to be voted on to be revoked.
Personally I’m gutted it’s been scrapped the company I work for are part of some of the joint ventures. It’s also noticeable that Euston to Old Oak Common is likely to be part of the spending.
Would be interesting to hear all of the parties visions for transport.
At the moment I feel the North has been cut adrift
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roversdude,
Yes, and Sunak knows that the situation will be legally challenged for the breach of contracts implied.
This will push a final decision back beyond the next GE.
Open goal for Keith to say what Labour will do.
Saying it will be completed means that those looking to make short profits will be deterred.
Given Keith is averse to saying anything on principle, he will probably be sat on the fence when it is demolished underneath him!
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Well this didn't take long to unravel did it?
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1710939845105692995
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Confirmed by Sunak today.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1711379438561071304
What a shower of shite. Get them out.
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Sunak is a Rail liar ?
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risky ........ ''“I’m not sure I recognise the numbers.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/09/list-of-projects-to-be-funded-by-hs2-money-only-illustrative-sunak-says