Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on October 31, 2023, 12:32:32 pm
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Just watching over lunch.
It makes The Thick of It look like a documentary.
QC to Cummings. Due to the nature of your communications, we are going to have to coarsen the tone a little. You called ministers "f**kpigs", "Morons" and "Kitsons". Do you regret that language?
Cummings to QC: No, I think that reflects a widespread view.
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Excellent theatre.
QC: You say that the Cabinet and many officials were not very good at their jobs. Who appointed them.
Cummings: The PM and I tried to get him to do better but I failed to convince him.
QC: Who appointed you Mr Cummings?
Cummings, (realising he's walked into a trap, mumbles): The Prime Minister.
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Just watching over lunch.
It makes The Thick of It look like a documentary.
QC to Cummings. Due to the nature of your communications, we are going to have to coarsen the tone a little. You called ministers "f**kpigs", "Morons" and "Kitsons". Do you regret that language?
Cummings to QC: No, I think that reflects a widespread view.
I’m quite surprised that the QC used the word Kitson.
I genuinely thought it was just used by Rovers fans in relation to THAT footballer.
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Maybe Cummings is a closet Rovers fan.
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It's fascinating. Been listening to it all afternoon.
The levels of misogyny and toxic culture is astonishing.
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Maybe Cummings is a closet Rovers fan.
Or Kitson has been a Kitson to a lot more people than just Rovers fans!
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Strange he used Kitson but not for Hancock who at least once , he called a lying cnut
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I think this was a particularly bad episode of government. It would be desperately naive to believe this isn't how government always functions.
It's worth realising how the governments of countries around the world are as bad or worse right now, we're so in the past and will continue to be in the future. There are sparse few rays of hope outside of delusion. .
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I think this was a particularly bad episode of government. It would be desperately naive to believe this isn't how government always functions.
It's worth realising how the governments of countries around the world are as bad or worse right now, we're so in the past and will continue to be in the future. There are sparse few rays of hope outside of delusion. .
There are a lot a darn sight better too.
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Strange he used Kitson but not for Hancock who at least once , he called a lying cnut
I reckon the political version of our ‘kitson’ should be a ‘hancock’:
Fiona Bruce: welcome to tonight’s Question Time live from Rotherham. We’ve got a right panel of hancocks answering questions from the audience.
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... and of course an extremely biased Hancock running the show
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I think this was a particularly bad episode of government. It would be desperately naive to believe this isn't how government always functions.
It's worth realising how the governments of countries around the world are as bad or worse right now, we're so in the past and will continue to be in the future. There are sparse few rays of hope outside of delusion. .
What, you think most governments ignore what their experts, advisors and civil servants tell them as normal behaviour?
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We were regularly told on here that Cummings was running the country.
If that is true shouldn't he be answering the questions and taking the blame for stuff that went wrong.
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We were regularly told on here that Cummings was running the country.
If that is true shouldn't he be answering the questions and taking the blame for stuff that went wrong.
Who said that? I only recall one person saying that he ran the operation of government, not that he made policy decisions.
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One person in particular regularly suggested that Cummings ran the show.
Funny how he was deemed to be a liar back then but now people want to believe every word he says.
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One person in particular regularly suggested that Cummings ran the show.
Funny how he was deemed to be a liar back then but now people want to believe every word he says.
Did that one person say Cummings was making policy decisions or running the operation of the machinery of government?
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Go back and have a look.
It isn't hard to find.
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Go back and have a look.
It isn't hard to find.
It's your bad memory, you show us.
After all, it's not hard to find.
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We were regularly told on here that Cummings was running the country.
If that is true shouldn't he be answering the questions and taking the blame for stuff that went wrong.
Who said that? I only recall one person saying that he ran the operation of government, not that he made policy decisions.
Can you show us where the one person said that Cummings ran the operation of government?
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We were regularly told on here that Cummings was running the country.
If that is true shouldn't he be answering the questions and taking the blame for stuff that went wrong.
Who said that? I only recall one person saying that he ran the operation of government, not that he made policy decisions.
Can you show us where the one person said that Cummings ran the operation of government?
After you.
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One person in particular regularly suggested that Cummings ran the show.
Funny how he was deemed to be a liar back then but now people want to believe every word he says.
Did that one person say Cummings was making policy decisions or running the operation of the machinery of government?
Here we go again. Hound on his regular dose of "BST is a hypocrite" medicine.
I did say Cummings was running the Government.
I did and do think he was and is an overbearing megalomaniac Kitson, who believed it was his role to run the government.
I do think he lied about certain things. I think he told the truth about certain things. I made my judgements on what I thought were truth and lies according to other evidence. Who'd have thought THAT was possibly, eh Hound?
But whatever Cummings's behaviour, there's no question who was responsible for the carnage that he wrought. The PM who employed him and then gave him the reins to run the country when he was too bored with the detail to do the job himself.
Fill your boots Hound. Find the inconsistency and hypocrisy in there if you can. You won't, because there isn't any. But it won't stop you being convinced I'm a hypocrite.
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There you go Glyn.
Copy this post in too so bst will read it.
BST, I don’t ever recall you saying you thought Cummings was telling the truth but I was right in saying that you said Cummings was running the country.
I can’t ever recall calling you out as a hypocrite either.
You just don’t like to be challenged and consistently dismiss or belittle anything or anyone who contradicts your point of view.
I also remember being told that advisors advise but Ministers decide but you seemed to buck the trend with your insistence that Cummings was running the show.
For what it is worth I agree with your description of Cummings by the way.
I have obviously touched a nerve here.
I now expect one or two of your forum buddies to jump on me, one in particular is almost certain to be along soon.
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BST says he said Cummings was running the government.
You say he said he was running the country.
They are not the same thing.
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Gareth Keenan.
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There you go Glyn.
BST, I don’t ever recall you saying you thought Cummings was telling the truth but I was right in saying that you said Cummings was running the country.
I can’t ever recall calling you out as a hypocrite either.
You just don’t like to be challenged and consistently dismiss or belittle anything or anyone who contradicts your point of view.
I also remember being told that advisors advise but Ministers decide but you seemed to buck the trend with your insistence that Cummings was running the show.
For what it is worth I agree with your description of Cummings by the way.
I have obviously touched a nerve here.
I now expect one or two of your forum buddies to jump on me, one in particular is almost certain to be along soon.
:that:
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BST says he said Cummings was running the government.
You say he said he was running the country.
They are not the same thing.
Sorry Glyn, you are wrong, read BSTs rant again, he clearly says that the PM gave Cummings the reigns to run the country when he was too bored with the detail to do the job himself.
BST did also mention that Cummings was running the government so perhaps you should also tell him that they are not the same thing.
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What’s coming out of the inquiry is nothing short of scandalous. To many of them were incompetent, too many saw Covid as a business opportunity.
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It's actually quite funny reading the messages until you remember that tens of thousands of people died when they didn't need to.
Also surprised, given it's fair to say there are a few older gentlemen on here, that Johnson's attitude towards older people hasn't come up yet.
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It's actually quite funny reading the messages until you remember that tens of thousands of people died when they didn't need to.
Also surprised, given it's fair to say there are a few older gentlemen on here, that Johnson's attitude towards older people hasn't come up yet.
Amen to that MM.
I've always said that you could just about forgive the Govt for the delay in locking down first time. I still think they got it badly wrong because they had 2 weeks advance notice from Italy of how horrifically fast and deadly the first outbreak was. But they had to make a monumental decision and you can understand them not optimising the outcome.
The second time, in late 2020, there is zero excuse. Everyone knew by then that if you didn't lockdown hard and fast, the outbreak would get out of control. You'd condemn tens of thousands of people to death. And when you inevitably had to lockdown after the outbreak was out of control, the lockdown would have to go on for much, much longer and be far more economically damaging.
There was zero excuse for getting it wrong that time.
Sunak, Heneghan, Gupta and the sheer stupidity and scientific illiteracy of Johnson were 100% to blame for that disaster.
Read this f**king idiocy from Johnson about "Get COVID - live longer". And the blithe dismissal of the crisis in the NHS from the numbers having to be treated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67275967.amp
Classic example of Dunning-Kruger. He was too stupid to realise how stupid he was. The key question is, who was feeding that shit into his head?
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And while we are talking about Dunning-Kruger, this looks like a prime example from a senior GB News employee.
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1719254817606947029
Except he knows what he's doing. He's paid to make sure uninformed angry people stay uninformed and angry.
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I'm very glad there are others with knowledge of Dunning Kruger. I came across it maybe 12 years ago. I was so impressed I nicked a copy of the documentation. I still have it. And it is still very relevant.
BobG
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FT:
''Lee Cain said Johnson would “oscillate” and “take a decision from the last person in the room”. Johnson did not believe Covid was a “big deal ...''
What an opportunity right there
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Covid Inquiry
suspected collusion between the main players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjRZe6g5EM
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There you go Glyn.
BST, I don’t ever recall you saying you thought Cummings was telling the truth but I was right in saying that you said Cummings was running the country.
I can’t ever recall calling you out as a hypocrite either.
You just don’t like to be challenged and consistently dismiss or belittle anything or anyone who contradicts your point of view.
I also remember being told that advisors advise but Ministers decide but you seemed to buck the trend with your insistence that Cummings was running the show.
For what it is worth I agree with your description of Cummings by the way.
I have obviously touched a nerve here.
I now expect one or two of your forum buddies to jump on me, one in particular is almost certain to be along soon.
:that:
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Covid Inquiry
suspected collusion between the main players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjRZe6g5EM
Absolutely disgusting the whole of it. Tories should never be aloud back in again.
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Have I missed the posts talking about Johnson funnelling funds to the Evening Standard, owned by?
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Have I missed the posts talking about Johnson funnelling funds to the Evening Standard, owned by?
no, but thanks for the tip
''Dominic Cummings has alleged Boris Johnson was “funnelling money” to a newspaper run by his friend, George Osborne during the Covid-19 pandemic.
The former chief aid made the explosive accusations during an inquiry sitting this week, saying the PM would make sure government cash was spent on ads in newspapers such as the London Evening Standard, which Osborne was editor-in-chief of at the time.
It was also alleged by Lee Cain that the PM wanted to please the right-wing press by holding off on announcing a lockdown.
“The prime minister was becoming increasingly concerned about the impact of lockdowns on the economy and the political impact it was having on the right wing of the Conservative Party and the coverage of the right-leaning media,” Cain wrote in his written submission to the inquiry''
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/johnson-accused-of-funnelling-money-to-newspaper-run-by-osborne-362176/
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Have I missed the posts talking about Johnson funnelling funds to the Evening Standard, owned by?
A certain Russian Lord owns the Evening Standard
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Ennobled by said Johnson too if my memory is not at fault...
BobG
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A 'special' hair dryer up the nose, bj as thick as trump
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A 'special' hair dryer up the nose, bj as thick as trump
If only one of them had suggested blowing bleach up the nose with a hair dryer, Lister and Pasteur's achievements would be dwarfed by such intellectual Titans.
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Anyone still believe he nearly died with Covid?
Publicity stunt in my eyes
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I for one, Filo believed it was a publicity stunt from the very start.
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I too smelled a Rat. Maybe it was a " look this is serious" even I have got it tactic though
There was a rumour that 2 Consultants were dismissed for not Signing the Official Secrets Act at the time
OK that was a rumour but there were other charges levelled at the time that the Govt were making bad calls and these are largely being confirmed by this Inquiry so why not this "rumour"
Interesting one though. If you personally had had COVID and recovered would you put yourself in harm's way again and again by working and mixing socially with hundreds of people who were coming into Number 10 hourly after being amongst the wider population of Greater London ?
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I for one, Filo believed it was a publicity stunt from the very start.
Me too
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Me three
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And me.
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It appears that anyone with a modicum of common sense was in the same boat. I didn't believe it for a second.
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I too smelled a Rat. Maybe it was a " look this is serious" even I have got it tactic though
There was a rumour that 2 Consultants were dismissed for not Signing the Official Secrets Act at the time
OK that was a rumour but there were other charges levelled at the time that the Govt were making bad calls and these are largely being confirmed by this Inquiry so why not this "rumour"
Interesting one though. If you personally had had COVID and recovered would you put yourself in harm's way again and again by working and mixing socially with hundreds of people who were coming into Number 10 hourly after being amongst the wider population of Greater London ?
Good point, DW, especially given the severity of his supposed bout of the illness.
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And as MacNamara said no social distancing!!
But all rules were followed!
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
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Hand-cock wanted to be the decision-maker on prioritising treatment if the NHS was to be overwhelmed when the NHS already had processes for those decisions. Words defy me to describe what I think about that Kitson... well there's a start I suppose.
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Is there any evidence to back up the allegations that three times the amount of midazolam was ordered from France in 2019/20?
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https://fb.watch/o3MW5vZ67n/
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
At last, some common sense on the issue.
Also, most of the doctors and nurses working at St Thomas's, a highly rated hospital, would have had to be complicit in such a cover up.
Are there such liars working at such a remarkable hospital?
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No one spends one night in intensive care, and no one gets discharged a couple of days later
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
That is not an unreasonable assumption, BST but if true then his subsequent behaviour in respect of observing the government's own Covid rules is like sticking two fingers up to the medical staff who cared for him.
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
At last, some common sense on the issue.
Also, most of the doctors and nurses working at St Thomas's, a highly rated hospital, would have had to be complicit in such a cover up.
Are there such liars working at such a remarkable hospital?
Wasn't the Secrets Act mentioned somewhere. I seem to recall one of the nurses being interviewed but not saying much
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
That is not an unreasonable assumption, BST but if true then his subsequent behaviour in respect of observing the government's own Covid rules is like sticking two fingers up to the medical staff who cared for him.
Of course. Because he's an amoral Kitson.
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Just a wild thought, what if someone asked say Elon Musk or any of the other participants at the AI gathering whether they could recover Richies whats app messages or is that too ridiculous?
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
That's a decent argument but the fact that we're even having the discussion about whether the Prime Minister of the UK pretended to have a life-threatening illness as a PR stunt shows what a pitiful state the government of our country is in.
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
That's a decent argument but the fact that we're even having the discussion about whether the Prime Minister of the UK pretended to have a life-threatening illness as a PR stunt shows what a pitiful state the government of our country is in.
Couldn't agree more. Johnson should never have got within a million miles of No 10.
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No one spends one night in intensive care, and no one gets discharged a couple of days later
not true my dad was in intensive care with breathing issues and was out of it the next day
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To think. This woman used to be the Political Editor of the BBC.
https://twitter.com/Zero_4/status/1720230694897488124
Here she is today, uncritically repeating one of THE most egregious lies that Johnson regularly pushed.
She is an utter disgrace to the profession. Either deliberately deceiving, or too thick to realise how thick she is.
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I reckon the fat Kitson was in rehab
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That, Nudga, is just about the best one liner in a decade. You've both made me smile and voiced a veritable truth in the space of 8 pungent words.
Cracking!
BobG
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That, Nudga, is just about the best one liner in a decade. You've both made me smile and voiced a veritable truth in the space of 8 pungent words.
Cracking!
BobG
Some folk think that using profanities is a lack of intelligence.
I like to think that it just cuts out the bullshit and gets straight to the point. Folk are also left in no doubt about your opinion of someone.
I am thick as mince meat btw hahaha
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To think. This woman used to be the Political Editor of the BBC.
https://twitter.com/Zero_4/status/1720230694897488124
Here she is today, uncritically repeating one of THE most egregious lies that Johnson regularly pushed.
She is an utter disgrace to the profession. Either deliberately deceiving, or too thick to realise how thick she is.
Don't be daft. She's correct in what she says
Have a read of this www.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit
Sums things up perfectly
It may not suit your black and white agenda but leaving the EU and having the diplomatic freedom to avoid membership of their failed vaccine procurement program (unlike all 27 member states) resulted in the UK saving tens of thousands of lives, us being able to meet with friends and family much sooner and get the economy going much quicker.
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It appears that anyone with a modicum of common sense was in the same boat. I didn't believe it for a second.
Common sense of course being the main attribute which separates people who believe in conspiracy theories from the rest of society.
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The Good Law project team are reporting that 9,000 beds and mattresses were bought at a cost of £24 million to the NHS. They were bought for the Nightingale hospitals but 6,000 weren’t fit for clinical use so were sold for off £410,000.
Some beds that cost thousands were sold for as little as £6.
It is nice to know that our taxes aren’t wasted.
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To think. This woman used to be the Political Editor of the BBC.
https://twitter.com/Zero_4/status/1720230694897488124
Here she is today, uncritically repeating one of THE most egregious lies that Johnson regularly pushed.
She is an utter disgrace to the profession. Either deliberately deceiving, or too thick to realise how thick she is.
A respected, experienced, professional journalist; thick?
You really do need to sort out your descriptive narratives, BST, because that one is just bordering on silliness.
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To think. This woman used to be the Political Editor of the BBC.
https://twitter.com/Zero_4/status/1720230694897488124
Here she is today, uncritically repeating one of THE most egregious lies that Johnson regularly pushed.
She is an utter disgrace to the profession. Either deliberately deceiving, or too thick to realise how thick she is.
A respected, experienced, professional journalist; thick?
You really do need to sort out your descriptive narratives, BST, because that one is just bordering on silliness.
SS.
She really is NOT a respected journalist. She offers nothing at all in terms of analysis of political events or moves. She made her name by being close to major political figures, which meant she could be first with breaking news. She basically acted as a conduit to get onto the headlines whatever Johnson's team wanted.
She is not fit to lick the boots of some of the truly great political analysts who have occupied her position at the BBC in the past.
I don't say that lightly by the way. I can give you dozens of examples of her acting like this. The one where, two days before the last election, she rushed to put into print the "fact" that a Labour worker had beaten up a Tory politician after an argument at a photoshoot outside a hospital should have finished her career there and then. It didn't happen. She had no evidence to support the claim that it did happen other than a message from Cummings claiming it had. Just shockingly bad journalism. The repeat of this outrageous lie is another example.
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Billy
See below extract from www.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit
Please point out which bit is outrageous or false
"Brussels took charge of vaccine procurement in the summer of 2020, as part of what Von der Leyen called a “European Health Union” in her September “State of the Union” address.
Member states were free to opt out of this supranational scheme, but none did so. Brexit made it “easy” for the UK to go its own way on vaccines, Bouzoua [political scientist at Washington DC’s Hudson Institute and former Portuguese Europe minister] observed.
“The EU Commission is very good at negotiating things like trade deals, but traditionally it hasn’t had competence in such matters as vaccines and contract negotiations, which were left to member states,” Wooldridge [political editor of The Economist] pointed out.
“The commission decided to aggrandise its competence and it wasn’t up to the job – it didn’t have the right people or the right skills,” he continued.
By contrast, Britain put a successful venture capitalist specialising in biosciences, Kate Bingham, in charge of its vaccine procurement programme."
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“Other than a message from Cummings claiming it had”.
FFS, for years the writer of that has been telling us all what a liar Cummings is……………but now believes everything that he is saying at the Covid Inquiry.
Two faced or what?
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Billy
See below extract from www.france24.com/en/europe/20210206-how-the-eu-s-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-became-an-advert-for-brexit
Please point out which bit is outrageous or false
"Brussels took charge of vaccine procurement in the summer of 2020, as part of what Von der Leyen called a “European Health Union” in her September “State of the Union” address.
Member states were free to opt out of this supranational scheme, but none did so. Brexit made it “easy” for the UK to go its own way on vaccines, Bouzoua [political scientist at Washington DC’s Hudson Institute and former Portuguese Europe minister] observed.
“The EU Commission is very good at negotiating things like trade deals, but traditionally it hasn’t had competence in such matters as vaccines and contract negotiations, which were left to member states,” Wooldridge [political editor of The Economist] pointed out.
“The commission decided to aggrandise its competence and it wasn’t up to the job – it didn’t have the right people or the right skills,” he continued.
By contrast, Britain put a successful venture capitalist specialising in biosciences, Kate Bingham, in charge of its vaccine procurement programme."
BR.
With respect, your obsession with trying to find positives in Brexit is dragging you in the wrong direction.
The Big Lie here isn't whether we could or could not have gone it alone if still inside the EU. (We COULD, but I accept it would have been politically fraught.)
The Big Lie is that we did far better than the EU at running our vaccination programme.
We didn't.
But it's a line pushed relentlessly by the Torie that we did. And Kuenssberg here is simply repeating that lie as a fact.
What actually happened was that we did well on getting vaccination started. But the EU programme rapidly made up most of not all of the gap by mid-2021. And crucially, our programme was strongly tied to the Oxford/AZ vaccine, which turned out to be much less effective than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that were more heavily used in the EU.
The proof of the pudding is in the effectiveness of the different vaccine programmes.
The UK didn't have any less stringent lockdowns than leading EU countries once the vaccine programme started. And in the year after the start of the UK vaccination programme, we had about 90,000 COVID deaths, compared to 70-80,000 in Germany, France and Italy.
Yes, we were fast off the blocks in starting vaccination. But by no measure was our overall programme better than equivalent EU programmes. Yet Kuenssberg here just repeats it as a fact with zero analysis. Because she is f**king useless.
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PS.
Your link is from very early days in the vaccination programmes. Read some from mid to late 2021.
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''Covid was 'wrong crisis for Boris Johnson's skill set'
Lee Cain told the Covid inquiry that Boris Johnson was someone who would often delay making decisions and change his mind on issues.
Covid was the ''wrong challenge'' for him, said Boris Johnson's former director of communications''
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-67273510
It would be interesting to one that was?
Maybe if someone urgently needed a liar, a racist, a coward, spendthrift, a philanderer, a ..........
.
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Billy
With genuine respect you're conflating two separate issues: The procurement of vaccines (an EU competency); and The administration of the vaccine rollout (a member state competency).
The UK were fast out of the blocks in vaccinating as the UK was significantly more successful in it's procurement program than the EU.
Meaning we crucially vaccinated the elderly and vulnerable much earlier. Thanks to Brexit and not participating in the EU procurement scheme. Which we beyond reasonable doubt would have done if still in the EU.
Once the supply issues in the EU were overcome several EU countries administered their vaccine program more efficiently than the UK.
This meant by mid/late 2021 they had overtaken the UK and vaccinated fit and healthy 20 and 30 somethings sooner. This has nothing to do with Brexit.
On deaths we need to compare statistics by country pre and post vaccine to identify the relevant successes of each countries vaccine program.
Looking at total deaths, as you have done, brings in many other variables: ageing of population, obesity levels, population density, Government attitude to lockdown/controls (not an EU competency), societal attitudes to controls, method of recording Covid deaths esp re co-morbidity, levels of testing etc etc
So Covid Year 1 deaths y/e 28/2/21 vs Covid Year 2 deaths y/e 28/2/22. www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
UK - Year1: 147,340 deaths; Year 2: 40,199. Fall of 73%
France - Year 1: 85,414; Year 2: 52,721. Fall of 38%
Germany - Year 1: 70,675; Year 2: 52,653. Fall of 26%
Italy - Year 1: 97,338; Year 2: 57,222. Fall of 41%
Spain - Year 1: 69,142; Year 2: 30,504. Fall of 56%.
Pretty stark. Why did deaths in the UK fall so much more significantly between these periods?
Simple. By the end of February 2021 a significant proportion of the most likely people to die from Covid had been fully or partially vaccinated. This was not the case in the EU.
Why? Because the EU ballsed up their vaccination procurement program. Whilst on that score the UK did well.
How many lives did this save? Applying the average % fall of the EU countries above to the UK's Year 1 stats - approximately 48,000 lives.
48,000 lives.
There's a Brexit benefit for you right there.
Res ipsa loquitur
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I'll give you my two pennirth. There's an overwhelming reason to believe that Johnson wasn't faking it.
It's called "Dominic Cummings"
Cummings was Johnson's right hand man at the time. It is inconceivable that he wouldn't have known if the illness was a scam.
Since he was booted out, Cummings has thrown everything he has at Johnson. It's been brutal. But he still holds to the line that Johnson was very seriously ill.
That makes it very, very likely that Johnson's illness was genuine.
That's a decent argument but the fact that we're even having the discussion about whether the Prime Minister of the UK pretended to have a life-threatening illness as a PR stunt shows what a pitiful state the government of our country is in.
Couldn't agree more. Johnson should never have got within a million miles of No 10.
But he did because our country's establishment engineered things for that. The greedy establishment is the problem, Johnson and others are just the fall guys, and our media focus on them. Its a distraction.
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Billy
With genuine respect you're conflating two separate issues: The procurement of vaccines (an EU competency); and The administration of the vaccine rollout (a member state competency).
The UK were fast out of the blocks in vaccinating as the UK was significantly more successful in it's procurement program than the EU.
Meaning we crucially vaccinated the elderly and vulnerable much earlier. Thanks to Brexit and not participating in the EU procurement scheme. Which we beyond reasonable doubt would have done if still in the EU.
Once the supply issues in the EU were overcome several EU countries administered their vaccine program more efficiently than the UK.
This meant by mid/late 2021 they had overtaken the UK and vaccinated fit and healthy 20 and 30 somethings sooner. This has nothing to do with Brexit.
On deaths we need to compare statistics by country pre and post vaccine to identify the relevant successes of each countries vaccine program.
Looking at total deaths, as you have done, brings in many other variables: ageing of population, obesity levels, population density, Government attitude to lockdown/controls (not an EU competency), societal attitudes to controls, method of recording Covid deaths esp re co-morbidity, levels of testing etc etc
So Covid Year 1 deaths y/e 28/2/21 vs Covid Year 2 deaths y/e 28/2/22. www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
UK - Year1: 147,340 deaths; Year 2: 40,199. Fall of 73%
France - Year 1: 85,414; Year 2: 52,721. Fall of 38%
Germany - Year 1: 70,675; Year 2: 52,653. Fall of 26%
Italy - Year 1: 97,338; Year 2: 57,222. Fall of 41%
Spain - Year 1: 69,142; Year 2: 30,504. Fall of 56%.
Pretty stark. Why did deaths in the UK fall so much more significantly between these periods?
Simple. By the end of February 2021 a significant proportion of the most likely people to die from Covid had been fully or partially vaccinated. This was not the case in the EU.
Why? Because the EU ballsed up their vaccination procurement program. Whilst on that score the UK did well.
How many lives did this save? Applying the average % fall of the EU countries above to the UK's Year 1 stats - approximately 48,000 lives.
48,000 lives.
There's a Brexit benefit for you right there.
Res ipsa loquitur
Sorry, but there's way too many variables in all that, not least the health of survivors of covid short and long term. Though, with a huge amount of stats which will still be dubious on many levels, you can assess the aims of countries with their achievements purely in terms of vaccinated numbers, timing, and the care of covid patients.