Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: scawsby steve on December 26, 2023, 06:07:37 pm
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2018/19 - 6th in League 1
2019/20 - 9th in League 1 (season curtailed)
2020/21 - 14th in League 1
2021/22 - 22nd in League 1 (relegated)
2022/23 - 18th in League 2
2023/24 - 20th in League 2 (halfway point)
The downward trajectory of our club is really alarming, and is showing no signs whatsoever of abating.
Very concerning.
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2018/19 - 6th in League 1
2019/20 - 9th in League 1 (season curtailed)
2020/21 - 14th in League 1
2021/22 - 22nd in League 1 (relegated)
2022/23 - 18th in League 2
2023/24 - 20th in League 2 (halfway point)
The downward trajectory of our club is really alarming, and is showing no signs whatsoever of abating.
Very concerning.
20/21 season Moore left and we were in the play off places. We appointed totally inexperienced Andy Butler and expected the poor guy to get us into the Championship.
21/22 season in midst of relegation battle placed 23rd in League One, we handed role to totally inexperienced Gary McSheffrey.
Both known to club.
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It's called sustainability, Steve. It is a downward trajectory but being sustained, what's not to like :suicide:
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2018/19 - 6th in League 1
2019/20 - 9th in League 1 (season curtailed)
2020/21 - 14th in League 1
2021/22 - 22nd in League 1 (relegated)
2022/23 - 18th in League 2
2023/24 - 20th in League 2 (halfway point)
The downward trajectory of our club is really alarming, and is showing no signs whatsoever of abating.
Very concerning.
You missed off the managerial changes for each descent . Let’s face facts giving Butler a top six position when Moore departed was the real joke . Everything else is just a good kick in caused by not learning from this mistake !!
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
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McSheffrey....spoke well in the interview and knows the club
Chairman David Blunt said: “The reaction we have seen from the team since Gary’s appointment, along with the excellent way he conducted himself during his interview for the job meant that we felt he was the best man to take the team forward. He understands the club, the existing squad personnel and showed a greater understanding of the needs of the team compared to many of his counterparts with experience at higher levels.
Schofield.... knows the area
During a recruitment process driven by head of football operations James Coppinger, Doncaster-born Schofield quickly emerged as the preferred candidate. As the club seeks to cement a framework and culture to endure for years to come, Schofield impressed with clear plans for a style of play and development of players, as well as inspiring faith that he can guide the squad towards achieving the goals for the current campaign. The 42-year-old has signed a one-year rolling contract and is relishing the prospect of taking the reins at his hometown club.
“The initial feeling is excitement,” Schofield said. “I’m really looking forward to the challenge and I appreciate the opportunity. I’m looking forward to getting to work.
“This is a new challenge and one I’m ready to give my all to in order to make it a success.
“I’m a Doncaster lad. I’m from the area so I know this place well. I know the supporters. I know what the ambitions of the club are.
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McSheffrey....spoke well in the interview and knows the club
Chairman David Blunt said: “The reaction we have seen from the team since Gary’s appointment, along with the excellent way he conducted himself during his interview for the job meant that we felt he was the best man to take the team forward. He understands the club, the existing squad personnel and showed a greater understanding of the needs of the team compared to many of his counterparts with experience at higher levels.
Schofield.... knows the area
During a recruitment process driven by head of football operations James Coppinger, Doncaster-born Schofield quickly emerged as the preferred candidate. As the club seeks to cement a framework and culture to endure for years to come, Schofield impressed with clear plans for a style of play and development of players, as well as inspiring faith that he can guide the squad towards achieving the goals for the current campaign. The 42-year-old has signed a one-year rolling contract and is relishing the prospect of taking the reins at his hometown club.
“The initial feeling is excitement,” Schofield said. “I’m really looking forward to the challenge and I appreciate the opportunity. I’m looking forward to getting to work.
“This is a new challenge and one I’m ready to give my all to in order to make it a success.
“I’m a Doncaster lad. I’m from the area so I know this place well. I know the supporters. I know what the ambitions of the club are.
And yet, for all these issues, both those managers achieved better outcomes than we have done so far this season, despite having considerably less money to spend.
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My favourite was the appointment of Schofield meaning "the club seeks to cement a framework and culture to endure for years to come".
Framework lasted less than six months.
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
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The Descent... A bloody horror film about unprepared amateurs getting in a situation that's way over their heads, and getting slaughtered slowly and painfully over the course of about 100 minutes or so.
Sounds about right.
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2018/19 - 6th in League 1
2019/20 - 9th in League 1 (season curtailed)
2020/21 - 14th in League 1
2021/22 - 22nd in League 1 (relegated)
2022/23 - 18th in League 2
2023/24 - 20th in League 2 (halfway point)
The downward trajectory of our club is really alarming, and is showing no signs whatsoever of abating.
Very concerning.
20/21 season Moore left and we were in the play off places. We appointed totally inexperienced Andy Butler and expected the poor guy to get us into the Championship.
21/22 season in midst of relegation battle placed 23rd in League One, we handed role to totally inexperienced Gary McSheffrey.
Both known to club.
We were in poor form under Moore before he left, Whiteman going saw to that. Butler probably wasn't the right choice but I doubt any manager could have done much that season.
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Speaking of Whiteman, excellent today against Leeds.
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Speaking of Whiteman, excellent today against Leeds.
He still hasn't signed a new deal though! Him signing is probably one of our priorities this window, not that we can influence this.
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The big question is when do rovers hit “bottom”?
I can honestly see very few points coming from the January games. Maybe a point against Harrogate and Newport at a push.
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
I'd bet my house on with the same funds available again but with smarter recruitment you'd assemble a squad capable of finishing top three .
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
Whatever people think, we literally cannot afford to get rid of McCann anyway.
We tried to introduce a system where we had a squad of players fit for a certain way of playing. We then just had to recruit managers who could make that system work. Recruitment was handled by the Head of Football.
This got dumped and McCann brought in, to have much more control over recruitment. So if people want him to go, then fine but we are then left yet again with a squad full of all sorts, signed by literally five different managers all with different styles of play.
So whether people like it or not we need to double down on McCann and let him build a squad over the next two windows. If we are 20th in League Two this time next season, then let's talk about him.
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
Despite what people are saying Ben Close would walk into any of the top 3 sides. The players around him just aren't on his level.
Other than that nobody right now.
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
100% agree , but I assume yo get what you pay for and it’s hard to pay for loyalty on a shoe string . 40k a week is it enough to buy experience or quality imo I doubt it . We have no back bone of players in the squad who would be first in the team sheet . I always though it was going to be hard bringing in so many strangers to each other and a manager who hadn’t worked with any of them and retaining players he needed to move on . 20th on the face of it says it all . Very Hard
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
100% agree , but I assume yo get what you pay for and it’s hard to pay for loyalty on a shoe string . 40k a week is it enough to buy experience or quality imo I doubt it . We have no back bone of players in the squad who would be first in the team sheet . I always though it was going to be hard bringing in so many strangers to each other and a manager who hadn’t worked with any of them and retaining players he needed to move on . 20th on the face of it says it all . Very Hard
Notts Wrexham and Stockport will be paying double that on their squad for sure. Mansfield recruit well, Barrow massively over achieving.
50% of our wages are injured as well!
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Speaking of Whiteman, excellent today against Leeds.
He squared up to the Leeds keeper today that led to the keeper getting sent off. As enjoyable as their defeat was and in particular seeing their keeper get sent off, the Preston lad who went down Milutin Osmajić is an absolute disgrace and needs kicking out of the game. Absolute joker rolling around like a screaming baby.
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A 5 year plan into the Conference League? At least we are achieving one target.
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The Descent... A bloody horror film about unprepared amateurs getting in a situation that's way over their heads, and getting slaughtered slowly and painfully over the course of about 100 minutes or so.
Sounds about right.
I’ve watched a lot of horror films and The Descent winds me up as it is dreadful and makes me shout at the telly
This is life imitating art. Not sure what is worse - watching the film or the football
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
Whatever people think, we literally cannot afford to get rid of McCann anyway.
We tried to introduce a system where we had a squad of players fit for a certain way of playing. We then just had to recruit managers who could make that system work. Recruitment was handled by the Head of Football.
This got dumped and McCann brought in, to have much more control over recruitment. So if people want him to go, then fine but we are then left yet again with a squad full of all sorts, signed by literally five different managers all with different styles of play.
So whether people like it or not we need to double down on McCann and let him build a squad over the next two windows. If we are 20th in League Two this time next season, then let's talk about him.
This!!
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It seems to me that the club has been in descendency since we were last relegated from the Championship in 2015 after financial restraints were introduced as a means of self-sufficiency.
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It seems to me that the club has been in descendency since we were last relegated from the Championship in 2015 after financial restraints were introduced as a means of self-sufficiency.
Hasn't been achieved?
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It seems to me that the club has been in descendency since we were last relegated from the Championship in 2015 after financial restraints were introduced as a means of self-sufficiency.
Hasn't been achieved?
If it has it's been to the detriment of the quality of the Rovers playing squad.
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We stopped publishing full accounts effective for the end of the 2014/15 season and in recent times didn't publish them prior to the 2009/10 season. Absolutely insane to think we had a wage bill of nearly £10m (during The Experiment season of all seasons).
Total wage costs
2014/15 season - £4.12m (League One)
2013/14 season - £7.3m (Championship)
2012/13 season - £7.05m (League One)
2011/12 season - £9.36m (Championship)
2010/11 season - £7.5m (Championship)
2009/10 season - £6.6m (Championship)
Now? Probably between £2-£2.5m?
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2018/19 - 6th in League 1
2019/20 - 9th in League 1 (season curtailed)
2020/21 - 14th in League 1
2021/22 - 22nd in League 1 (relegated)
2022/23 - 18th in League 2
2023/24 - 20th in League 2 (halfway point)
The downward trajectory of our club is really alarming, and is showing no signs whatsoever of abating.
Very concerning.
And just when is this nightmare gonna end?
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2018/19 - 6th in League 1
2019/20 - 9th in League 1 (season curtailed)
2020/21 - 14th in League 1
2021/22 - 22nd in League 1 (relegated)
2022/23 - 18th in League 2
2023/24 - 20th in League 2 (halfway point)
The downward trajectory of our club is really alarming, and is showing no signs whatsoever of abating.
Very concerning.
And just when is this nightmare gonna end?
I’ve asked this Prez. When do rovers hit the new unwelcome “bottom”? Will this get any worse? I am looking at the table tonight and upcoming fixtures and DRFC should now be looking over their shoulder at Sutton, FGR, Colchester and Salford .
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The descent has been alarming.
Could never have imagined we would be where we are right now at Christmas 3 yrs ago.
Quite unbelievable how far we have fallen.
The rot has to stop NOW or we are in big big trouble
Go down into the National league and it could be a marathon trying to get back.
We need some serious character from our players now.
When the going gets tough the tough get? Do the players know what the missing word is I wonder. Well we are going to see.
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Probably be between us and Colchester who go down. Forest Green are set to recruit big in Janauary to save their season.
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We stopped publishing full accounts effective for the end of the 2014/15 season and in recent times didn't publish them prior to the 2009/10 season. Absolutely insane to think we had a wage bill of nearly £10m (during The Experiment season of all seasons).
Total wage costs
2014/15 season - £4.12m (League One)
2013/14 season - £7.3m (Championship)
2012/13 season - £7.05m (League One)
2011/12 season - £9.36m (Championship)
2010/11 season - £7.5m (Championship)
2009/10 season - £6.6m (Championship)
Now? Probably between £2-£2.5m?
£7m for that L1 season? Can’t be right surely.
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That’s how we got straight back up. We spent big to give Saunders that squad.
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That’s how we got straight back up. We spent big to give Saunders that squad.
I suppose in a promotion season the wage bill will be higher due to lots of bonus’ being paid.
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I don’t look down there often. But a quick look at the National lge shows some interesting days out. Southend. York. Hartlepool, our fa cup friends Oldham, Rochdale, Halifax and Aldershot.
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That’s how we got straight back up. We spent big to give Saunders that squad.
I very much doubt that .. Saunders was brought in to clear out the big earners and reduce wage bill and was rewarded by his mate at Wolverhampton taking him to do the same and leaving Bryan Flynn to see us over the line We had a very a good squad winning more away than at home , but apart from a few named players it was thrown together with Rob Jone and Jamie Mcombe playing a huge part with Paul keegan and Paul Quin .
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It’s not really a matter of doubting whether it is true, because that is what the statutory accounts say. Perhaps more so a question of wondering where that wage bill was spent and there were lots of hefty wages in that squad - Cotterill, Coppinger (on such a good wage we had to loan him out to Forest for a period), Brown, Sullivan and Spurr to name but five lads. There were obviously more than those.
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We stopped publishing full accounts effective for the end of the 2014/15 season and in recent times didn't publish them prior to the 2009/10 season. Absolutely insane to think we had a wage bill of nearly £10m (during The Experiment season of all seasons).
Total wage costs
2014/15 season - £4.12m (League One)
2013/14 season - £7.3m (Championship)
2012/13 season - £7.05m (League One)
2011/12 season - £9.36m (Championship)
2010/11 season - £7.5m (Championship)
2009/10 season - £6.6m (Championship)
Now? Probably between £2-£2.5m?
That explains the boardroom revolt that turfed Ryan out. Absolute madness, the way we were run that season.
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Gap was pretty small due to Championship privileges of huge relative crowds and TV cash - income was around £8.3m against wage bill of around a million more. Overall loss that season was much higher though, of £3.5m. This was in spite of booking £1.5m from player sales, which would have been mostly or entirely upfront payment on sale of Billy Sharp.
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
Whatever people think, we literally cannot afford to get rid of McCann anyway.
We tried to introduce a system where we had a squad of players fit for a certain way of playing. We then just had to recruit managers who could make that system work. Recruitment was handled by the Head of Football.
This got dumped and McCann brought in, to have much more control over recruitment. So if people want him to go, then fine but we are then left yet again with a squad full of all sorts, signed by literally five different managers all with different styles of play.
So whether people like it or not we need to double down on McCann and let him build a squad over the next two windows. If we are 20th in League Two this time next season, then let's talk about him.
I completely agree with this, CBcb and I would say that if we actually are in League Two this time next season I will count that a success on McCann's account.
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It seems to me that the club has been in descendency since we were last relegated from the Championship in 2015 after financial restraints were introduced as a means of self-sufficiency.
You keep quoting self sufficiency BB. You won't find any reference to self sufficiency. Self sustainable losses has been the way they have operated for the most part.
If we lose two out of three of our main benefactors, then is it any wonder they had to try to be a bit more prudent?
If self-sustainability isn't the right approach, then I'd just like to know how you would keep losses in check if you were to plan to be unsustainable?
JR said himself recently when reflecting, it wasn't sustainable. One of the factors he quoted was falling attendances despite playing championship football.
Maybe they reigned things in too far, maybe too cautious particularly with Covid hitting on the back of losing Dick Watson. Either way, it looks like TB has reassessed the situation but we have only just started the transition.
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DBR, I too make occasional comment about the sustainability claim made by the club but my ire is not at sustainability as an aspiration (I would love it to be achieved) but rather the crowing about having achieved sustainability when anyone with an ounce of sense can see that it has to be sustained along with all of the factors that affect it, namely stability of the club's league status.
What has been happening to the club since sustainability was claimed is that the league position has declined consistently resulting in a massive loss of gate revenues along with ongoing relative reduction in the playing budget.
So please tell me how where we are now can be called sustainability.
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DBR, I too make occasional comment about the sustainability claim made by the club but my ire is not at sustainability as an aspiration (I would love it to be achieved) but rather the crowing about having achieved sustainability when anyone with an ounce of sense can see that it has to be sustained along with all of the factors that affect it, namely stability of the club's league status.
What has been happening to the club since sustainability was claimed is that the league position has declined consistently resulting in a massive loss of gate revenues along with ongoing relative reduction in the playing budget.
So please tell me how where we are now can be called sustainability.
I was pointing out there's a difference between self sufficient and sustainable.
TB ultimately decides what is sustainable. However, there are some major factors contributing to why we haven't been getting value for money headed by instability.
The revolving door of managers, backroom staff including heads of recruitment.
Players brought in serving under different managers who have different ideas and methods.
An injury list that has eaten up a fair chunk of the each budget plus players who were just not up to it.
All these things compound and as you say.
If TB has indeed upped the ante by a) appointing the experience manager fans were crying out for and b) providing an enhanced budget for him to work with, he knows he has to sustain that over multiple seasons in order to provide the stability that's lacking.
McCann has so far assembled a bigger squad, appointed new backroom staff including key personnel in recruitment and medical. These will take time to see full benefit.
The signings made have been better but, we have a legacy which needs to be worked through. Plus, not every signing is going to be a potential money earner or can guarantee they stay injury free.
For a time, we will have to sustain a bigger squad while the poorer performers leave and hopefully the better performers are assembled.
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A system is self-sustaining (or self-sufficient) if it can sustain itself independently. The system's self-sustainability is the degree to which it can sustain itself without external support.
https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/drfc/meet-the-owners---ownership/#:~:text=%22The%20Dons%20and%20Belles%20are,straight%20into%20the%20playing%20budget.%22
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You know full well, in the context of how the club was being run, the owners underwriting sustainable losses They decided what was sustainable (or not as the case maybe)
Then there's the misinterpretation, or misunderstanding (some deliberate) of what the club communicated about the success of Club Doncaster, meaning that if anything happened to TB the club could still operate and not fold due to the income generated (obviously the level where we could operate is debatable) however TB chose to keep supporting the club (to what degree we've yet to see in the accounts). So people chose to interpret this as TB intending to stop funding with a view to being self sufficient, rather than focusing on the positive that Club Doncaster means we are not just reliant on one man.
So, TB never intended to run the club to become purely self sufficient. Since then obviously he's stepped in to provide further funding up front as well as being there to underwrite the accounting losses.
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DBR.
Whether you call it self-sufficient or self-sustaining the point is the football team has been in decline for about 8 years now.
What do you think the problem is?
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DBR.
Whether you call it self-sufficient or self-sustaining the point is the football team has been in decline for about 8 years now.
What do you think the problem is?
With the current direction still on the downward trend Terry Bramall has a big job to turn this around . Unless the fan base either grows or provides greater share of the clubs income .
John Ryan David Blunt and Dick Watson have left or departed Rip .. and an octogenarian is now left holding the wooden spoon , trying to keep the faith in those delegated to grow and expand the fortunes of DRFC and Club Doncaster .
Someone has failed the club and perhaps a fresh approach or new owners will change its course of direction .
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DBR.
Whether you call it self-sufficient or self-sustaining the point is the football team has been in decline for about 8 years now.
What do you think the problem is?
We've all covered it many times and will keep doing it but there is no one simple solution.
As said above, it's turning out to be a more difficult job than many of us could foresee.
For starters, I bet we'd all love to find a way of reversing our fortunes on the injury front, so we aren't pissing so much good money on medical bills.
The changes that have already been made may bear fruit in the near future but we'll have to wait a while for that to be seen.
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It's something more than the fault of the team manager when you consider we've had nine different ones since our decline began around 2015.
Regarding injuries, it could be argued that we sign injury-prone or unfit players, or lightweights. Maybe it could be pitch issues, either the ECO power pitch or Cantley Park. Maybe it could be down to the medical staff, but as with the managers, they have come and gone and replacements don't seem to make any difference to the problem.
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It's something more than the fault of the team manager when you consider we've had nine different ones since our decline began around 2015.
Regarding injuries, it could be argued that we sign injury-prone or unfit players, or lightweights. Maybe it could be pitch issues, either the ECO power pitch or Cantley Park. Maybe it could be down to the medical staff, but as with the managers, they have come and gone and replacements don't seem to make any difference to the problem.
Exactly. And that's why we need some stability to sort through the problems.
At least McCann said, post Notts he's excited about the challenge ahead. He has the benefit of knowing stuff we don't (yet).
Whichever way we look at it the manager (with the support of the board) has got to make some hard assessments on players (we do have some decent players too) and not tar them all with the same brush. He'll have to be ruthless with some. A tactic that hasn't always gone well but he needs to weedle out the ones that have no future (or don't want to be here)
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McCann is the biggest football related asset we have by a country mile. He's currently about 1.5 to 2 divisions below the level he's consistently and recently proven himself to be competent at. We've gotta get behind him and put some faith in him haven't we? I'm certainly prepared to.
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McCann is the biggest football related asset we have by a country mile. He's currently about 1.5 to 2 divisions below the level he's consistently and recently proven himself to be competent at. We've gotta get behind him and put some faith in him haven't we? I'm certainly prepared to.
Bang on.
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McCann is the biggest football related asset we have by a country mile. He's currently about 1.5 to 2 divisions below the level he's consistently and recently proven himself to be competent at. We've gotta get behind him and put some faith in him haven't we? I'm certainly prepared to.
Bang on.
Thirded. I just pray we don’t panic and sack him. It’s shit at the moment, but he’s got a track record that should give us some reassurance that he can turn this around. Plus we just can’t afford to go through another overhaul. It hasn’t worked in the past. Now we’ve got an established manager, what we need is stability.
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I'm more concerned that he'll bugger off somewhere else if an offer comes along.
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Bizarre situation to be in when the manager is a class or two above the playing staff . Very odd . But if he left we would be right royally fecked . And 20th in the National League would beckon
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Bizarre situation to be in when the manager is a class or two above the playing staff . Very odd . But if he left we would be right royally fecked . And 20th in the National League would beckon
…..and how long before a match against Rossington in August becomes a league game.
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It’s been said before but warrants repeating - Terry must be sat with his head in his hands. All the hard work of the last 20 years and all the cash put into the club (probably most of which has come from him personally) yet we are pretty much back where we started almost. He built and ran a successful business. Must be shedding tears for how the club has eaten up his money and gone backwards at a prodigious rate. Every pound he is putting in over last couple of season is producing a negative return, we go backwards with no sign of this stopping.
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It’s been said before but warrants repeating - Terry must be sat with his head in his hands. All the hard work of the last 20 years and all the cash put into the club (probably most of which has come from him personally) yet we are pretty much back where we started almost. He built and ran a successful business. Must be shedding tears for how the club has eaten up his money and gone backwards at a prodigious rate. Every pound he is putting in over last couple of season is producing a negative return, we go backwards with no sign of this stopping.
That can only be because there have been and possibly still are people at the club in positions of influence who are not up to the job. It can't possibly be all down to misfortune.
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It’s been said before but warrants repeating - Terry must be sat with his head in his hands. All the hard work of the last 20 years and all the cash put into the club (probably most of which has come from him personally) yet we are pretty much back where we started almost. He built and ran a successful business. Must be shedding tears for how the club has eaten up his money and gone backwards at a prodigious rate. Every pound he is putting in over last couple of season is producing a negative return, we go backwards with no sign of this stopping.
I agree to an extent and will always be extremely grateful for Terry’s continued and generous contributions but it’s not as though he’s been a silent investor with minimal influence into how the club has been operating. He’s been on a board of just 3 people the whole time and has continued to back Blunt as the Chairman during the decline (how many times have we heard that if Blunt were to go, Terry would too?) He deserves a huge amount of credit for the amount of money that he’s put in over the years, and equally a huge amount for stepping up now, but he also has to shoulder some of the responsibility for where we find ourselves now.
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The big caveat to this is we have never had a proper Director of Football so perhaps we have been lucky amateurs for a while, but our collapse in the last say 4 years has been the result of poor managerial appointments and poor recruitment. Gavin seems to run the club well financially but who is actually advising Terry on footballing decisions?
We've been all over the place both at the strategic level (Director of Football / Coach model and then dumping that overnight, or recruitment based on ‘try before you buy’ and then dumping that overnight) and tactical level (Butler, McSheffrey, Schofield, 3 yr deal to Taylor, 2.5 yr deal to Anderson, Reo, Vilca, Gardner, Dodoo, Cukur, pick up phone to Lee Carsley as mentor).
We’ve failed because of the big structure, appointment and recruitment decisions. You can only blame Blunt so much - if you debit him for all the failures then you have to credit him for appointing McCann first time and then Moore taking us to top of League One.
We have made rank bad footballing decisions that have led to terrible results, terrible football and terrible financial implications. How have they got so bad?
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It’s been said before but warrants repeating - Terry must be sat with his head in his hands. All the hard work of the last 20 years and all the cash put into the club (probably most of which has come from him personally) yet we are pretty much back where we started almost. He built and ran a successful business. Must be shedding tears for how the club has eaten up his money and gone backwards at a prodigious rate. Every pound he is putting in over last couple of season is producing a negative return, we go backwards with no sign of this stopping.
I agree to an extent and will always be extremely grateful for Terry’s continued and generous contributions but it’s not as though he’s been a silent investor with minimal influence into how the club has been operating. He’s been on a board of just 3 people the whole time and has continued to back Blunt as the Chairman during the decline (how many times have we heard that if Blunt were to go, Terry would too?) He deserves a huge amount of credit for the amount of money that he’s put in over the years, and equally a huge amount for stepping up now, but he also has to shoulder some of the responsibility for where we find ourselves now.
I get where you come from on that Nick but on the flip side you don't appoint someone to Chairman and then not let him do the job. What I would say is Terry might have acted to resolve the situation sooner.
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Weren’t McSheffrey and Schofield the outstanding candidates from all of the applications we had though?
You don’t throw away the opportunity when Moore left by giving the job to a first timer unless you don’t want promotion . Every other manager since left under a cloud WHY ? Imo the club was cutting back the amount money available and settling on playing L2 as wage bills and running costs can be managed prudently! Until Terry Bramhall stepping at the start of this season , ticket sales had nose dived and supporters were viewing with their feet . TB has pulled another stroke by bringing in a managers liked by the supporters but still put restraints on the wage bill . Imo we are not long for this league unless TB can find a buyer as even he has a limited on what he can put in .
Results are gained in this division by providing a positive outlook and the funds to back up the wishes of the club intent .
There are no guarantees of success but over time results grow as a consistency and momentum also grows with better results .?
But remove the positives and you end up 20th in L2 ..
We have a first team squad of more than 30 players. I'd guess that the wage bill is north of £40k/week.
Yet stop for a moment and ask yourself how many of those players would be regulars in any of the top three sides.
I'll start the bidding at "none".
It's not lack of funds that is the issue. It is three years of utterly dreadful recruitment. Culminating in that gutless abomination today.
Despite what people are saying Ben Close would walk into any of the top 3 sides. The players around him just aren't on his level.
Other than that nobody right now.
Ha ha we best brace ourselves, they'll all be banging door down in January to sign him!
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Bizarre situation to be in when the manager is a class or two above the playing staff . Very odd . But if he left we would be right royally fecked . And 20th in the National League would beckon
…..and how long before a match against Rossington in August becomes a league game.
It's only a year a go since we were well beaten on our own turf by a National League North Team .