Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2024, 03:00:10 pm
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"I don't think Doncaster have looked bad enough to warrant a 3-1 defeat".
But we do lose like this. Regularly. Because our defence would struggle at the bottom of the Conference.
We have to face up to the fact that we are utterly incapable of defending against run of the mill Div 4 plodders.
Odoh has scored 7 goals in 100 Div 4 appearances before today. Against us, he's looked like Cristiano Ro-f**king-naldo, twice this season.
Because our defence is absolutely shite. We are on target to concede 82 goals this season. We have conceded 3 or more TEN times in 26 games.
And if we don't address that, we'll be in the same boat next year.
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Plus we have 2 no2 goalkeepers
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"I don't think Doncaster have looked bad enough to warrant a 3-1 defeat".
But we do lose like this. Regularly. Because our defence would struggle at the bottom of the Conference.
We have to face up to the fact that we are utterly incapable of defending against run of the mill Div 4 plodders.
Odoh has scored 7 goals in 100 Div 4 appearances before today. Against us, he's looked like Cristiano Ro-f**king-naldo, twice this season.
Because our defence is absolutely shite. We are on target to concede 82 goals this season. We have conceded 3 or more TEN times in 26 games.
And if we don't address that, we'll be in the same boat next year.
Honestly worried that we haven't bottomed out yet as a club.
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"I don't think Doncaster have looked bad enough to warrant a 3-1 defeat".
But we do lose like this. Regularly. Because our defence would struggle at the bottom of the Conference.
We have to face up to the fact that we are utterly incapable of defending against run of the mill Div 4 plodders.
Odoh has scored 7 goals in 100 Div 4 appearances before today. Against us, he's looked like Cristiano Ro-f**king-naldo, twice this season.
Because our defence is absolutely shite. We are on target to concede 82 goals this season. We have conceded 3 or more TEN times in 26 games.
And if we don't address that, we'll be in the same boat next year.
Result's come from taking your chances not giving them to your opponents !!
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If nobody on the pitch or in the dugout could see that somebody had to take one for the team on Odoh within the first 5 minutes they need to find another profession. Every time without fail this club starts to look as if they are turning things around they hit you with a result that we should have won with a comfortable defeat. The distances between defence/ midfield and attack is like watching an over 35s Sunday league game on Wembleys pitch. A header out of defence, a switch of play and a cross into the box fcuks us every time. There is an arrogance within this club that think we only have to play our own game to win a game of football in this league. Nullifying any threat from the opppsition is secondary and there is a complete acceptance to shipping goals and missing simple chances and unfortunately this has even leaked into a very large chunk of our fanbase. Win 1, draw 1 and we are fantastic again according to some. They dont fool anyone here.
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Plus we have 2 no2 goalkeepers
I agree with this (as harsh as it may be) ok no other area of the pitch would we accept such a weak position and we neglect the most important position on the pitch.
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My mate, reports on Harrogate. I said to him less than 10 mins into the game that the number 9 looks dangerous. His response was “catches the eye on one viewing, but over the season very little end product”.
Yet as BST says we have made him look a world beater twice this season. The Harrogate commentator said it’s the best he has played this season. Funnily enough it’s against us and our pathetic defence.
After an hour looked as though it was a matter of time before we scored yet we come away soundly beaten.
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If nobody on the pitch or in the dugout could see that somebody had to take one for the team on Odoh within the first 5 minutes they need to find another profession. Every time without fail this club starts to look as if they are turning things around they hit you with a result that we should have won with a comfortable defeat. The distances between defence/ midfield and attack is like watching an over 35s Sunday league game on Wembleys pitch. A header out of defence, a switch of play and a cross into the box fcuks us every time. There is an arrogance within this club that think we only have to play our own game to win a game of football in this league. Nullifying any threat from the opppsition is secondary and there is a complete acceptance to shipping goals and missing simple chances and unfortunately this has even leaked into a very large chunk of our fanbase. Win 1, draw 1 and we are fantastic again according to some. They dont fool anyone here.
I think that comment on arrogance is very perceptive. We DO give the impression that our players don't think they have to work hard or take responsibility. We are Donny therefore we are special.
We aren't special. We are the 5/6th worst club in the 92 and it is a f**king embarrassment.
One little moment summed it up today. 3-1 down against f**king Harrogate. We had a throw in deep in their half. It took us 30 seconds for someone (inevitably Ironside) to show for it. Every other f**ker in the side was waiting for someone else to take the responsibility.
Because we are Donny. We don't need to work on the f**king basics like these little Harrogates.
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I keep saying this to my mates, but I bet teams relish playing us. We're so easy to play against and we completely crumble at the slightest hint of a physical challenge.
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Don’t disagree BST but I thought our midfield shape today was rancid. Their structure was miles better. We were wide open at times when they had the ball and midfield was vacant when we had it. The Ironside no10/ dropping deep experiment is laughable as well.
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"I don't think Doncaster have looked bad enough to warrant a 3-1 defeat".
But we do lose like this. Regularly. Because our defence would struggle at the bottom of the Conference.
We have to face up to the fact that we are utterly incapable of defending against run of the mill Div 4 plodders.
Odoh has scored 7 goals in 100 Div 4 appearances before today. Against us, he's looked like Cristiano Ro-f**king-naldo, twice this season.
Because our defence is absolutely shite. We are on target to concede 82 goals this season. We have conceded 3 or more TEN times in 26 games.
And if we don't address that, we'll be in the same boat next year.
BST, I’m agreeing with you once again on this.
I’ve been saying for a few years now that we are possibly on the slippery slope to the National League.
Losing on a very regular basis has been our modus operandi and it appears that it began with the the self sustainability plan and despite the injection of funds by Terry we appear to be unable to stop the slide.
I really don’t like coming on here with little or no positives after a defeat but I’m afraid I can’t offer anything today.
Apologies to anyone who is offended by my point of view but it is just how I see things at the club right now.
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If nobody on the pitch or in the dugout could see that somebody had to take one for the team on Odoh within the first 5 minutes they need to find another profession. Every time without fail this club starts to look as if they are turning things around they hit you with a result that we should have won with a comfortable defeat. The distances between defence/ midfield and attack is like watching an over 35s Sunday league game on Wembleys pitch. A header out of defence, a switch of play and a cross into the box fcuks us every time. There is an arrogance within this club that think we only have to play our own game to win a game of football in this league. Nullifying any threat from the opppsition is secondary and there is a complete acceptance to shipping goals and missing simple chances and unfortunately this has even leaked into a very large chunk of our fanbase. Win 1, draw 1 and we are fantastic again according to some. They dont fool anyone here.
I think that comment on arrogance is very perceptive. We DO give the impression that our players don't think they have to work hard or take responsibility. We are Donny therefore we are special.
We aren't special. We are the 5/6th worst club in the 92 and it is a f**king embarrassment.
One little moment summed it up today. 3-1 down against f**king Harrogate. We had a throw in deep in their half. It took us 30 seconds for someone (inevitably Ironside) to show for it. Every other f**ker in the side was waiting for someone else to take the responsibility.
Because we are Donny. We don't need to work on the f**king basics like these little Harrogates.
Without Ironside our team would be possibly be in the bottom 2.
He is the only one who shows from throw ins. Everyone else stands around looking at each other.
Moly should have a hat trick almost every match. We will pay for missed chances because we can’t defend.
We are desperate for a defensive midfielder. Close is a good footballer but he can’t tackle and allows players to run past him. He needs to play further forward and Bailey needs to go into midfield.
That means we need 2 new centre backs as Olowu isn’t consistent. ( one good game 2 bad games )
So Faulkner and McGrath? Both inexperienced so a risk. Anderson is finished and Wood it seems likewise.
One step forward and two steps back it seems for Rovers.
GM must be pulling his hair out after that.
We were in control, missed 2 sitters ( 17 shots and only 2 on target ) which should have won the game and then conceded a very soft goal and we collapsed and became a ragged looking outfit.
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Don’t disagree BST but I thought our midfield shape today was rancid. Their structure was miles better. We were wide open at times when they had the ball and midfield was vacant when we had it. The Ironside no10/ dropping deep experiment is laughable as well.
Totally agree GL.
Everybody harps on about the defence and I think as a centre forward you’d look at them in the warm up and think I fancy this today! But our midfield just doesn’t compete and doesn’t keep the ball very well at all, especially without Westbrooke. It needs addressing ASAP.
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I wonder how many teams in League Two would like to play us every week?
I would bet most of them.
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"I don't think Doncaster have looked bad enough to warrant a 3-1 defeat".
But we do lose like this. Regularly. Because our defence would struggle at the bottom of the Conference.
We have to face up to the fact that we are utterly incapable of defending against run of the mill Div 4 plodders.
Odoh has scored 7 goals in 100 Div 4 appearances before today. Against us, he's looked like Cristiano Ro-f**king-naldo, twice this season.
Because our defence is absolutely shite. We are on target to concede 82 goals this season. We have conceded 3 or more TEN times in 26 games.
And if we don't address that, we'll be in the same boat next year.
BST, I’m agreeing with you once again on this.
I’ve been saying for a few years now that we are possibly on the slippery slope to the National League.
Losing on a very regular basis has been our modus operandi and it appears that it began with the the self sustainability plan and despite the injection of funds by Terry we appear to be unable to stop the slide.
I really don’t like coming on here with little or no positives after a defeat but I’m afraid I can’t offer anything today.
Apologies to anyone who is offended by my point of view but it is just how I see things at the club right now.
100% this.
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Don’t disagree BST but I thought our midfield shape today was rancid. Their structure was miles better. We were wide open at times when they had the ball and midfield was vacant when we had it. The Ironside no10/ dropping deep experiment is laughable as well.
I would much rather play a 4-1-3-2, it gives you an equal balance of 5 defensive players and 5 attacking player. It also plugs the spaces between midfield and defence.
Not really a formation for wingers though.
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4-2-3–1 allows you to play with two wingers though.
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4-2-3–1 allows you to play with two wingers though.
Too defensive though (imo and for my liking) and I hate having 1 striker up top on his own.
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"I don't think Doncaster have looked bad enough to warrant a 3-1 defeat".
But we do lose like this. Regularly. Because our defence would struggle at the bottom of the Conference.
We have to face up to the fact that we are utterly incapable of defending against run of the mill Div 4 plodders.
Odoh has scored 7 goals in 100 Div 4 appearances before today. Against us, he's looked like Cristiano Ro-f**king-naldo, twice this season.
Because our defence is absolutely shite. We are on target to concede 82 goals this season. We have conceded 3 or more TEN times in 26 games.
And if we don't address that, we'll be in the same boat next year.
BST, I’m agreeing with you once again on this.
I’ve been saying for a few years now that we are possibly on the slippery slope to the National League.
Losing on a very regular basis has been our modus operandi and it appears that it began with the the self sustainability plan and despite the injection of funds by Terry we appear to be unable to stop the slide.
I really don’t like coming on here with little or no positives after a defeat but I’m afraid I can’t offer anything today.
Apologies to anyone who is offended by my point of view but it is just how I see things at the club right now.
100% this.
Totally agree with you, it’s upsetting times for most fans to see us underperforming like we do, week in week out, just when we may have thought we had turned a corner with the past two performances, we are back in what Del Boy would say “deep deep stuck”
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The team continues to cry out for leadership.
I can't think of one signing we've made in the last three years who 100% ticks this box; character, strength in adversity, physicality, a winning mentality.
Of the current bunch, Ironside shows it the most and young Bailey looks like he's got it in him. Anderson might have had it once, a long, long time ago but not any more. I thought Wood might bring a bit but he's gone MIA. As for the rest...
To me it's the key reason why our midfield-central defence-goalkeeper spine is so lacking and why we are joke defensively. I'm a bit surprised as I would have thought that GM would have identified one or two in his own mould as early signings.
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The team continues to cry out for leadership.
I can't think of one signing we've made in the last three years who 100% ticks this box; character, strength in adversity, physicality, a winning mentality.
Of the current bunch, Ironside shows it the most and young Bailey looks like he's got it in him. Anderson might have had it once, a long, long time ago but not any more. I thought Wood might bring a bit but he's gone MIA. As for the rest...
To me it's the key reason why our midfield-central defence-goalkeeper spine is so lacking and why we are joke defensively. I'm a bit surprised as I would have thought that GM would have been able to identify one or two in his own mould as early signings.
Wood?
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
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Wood? As I say, gone MIA.
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After the Morecambe debacle I posted somewhere I had never been so disappointed after a game for many many years . We were abject , atrocious , awful
Then after the MK Dons game everyone including me said " well I didnt see THAT coming" and I was reminded there were 8 of the same Players in the MKD match that ghad played against Morecambe
Well today I award my most disappointed trophy again to todays Game because ffs " I didnt see that coming" after MKD. HOW in hells name do we manage to lose to (imo) one of the worst Teams I have seen this Season (apart from us). BST said in in OP "Plodders"
BUT we deserved to lose . Several chances were not taken. The Moly Volley in 2nd minute of Second half was a difficult one and that was hard luck. Mo Faal who was castigated by 2 people near me the whole game should really have nodded that one in at 1-1 and I dare say or guess we would have scored again , but we didnt
Dire day in a dire Ground with dire facilities and dire officials.Not one to enter in my diar(y)
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
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I think we have hopefully stabilised the situation but we have gone backwards every season for the last few years, and done so extremely rapidly.
This remember is without some cash crisis, without some malign owners, without losing our ground, without a boardroom struggle. We've done this in spite of all the obvious advantages we have. We shouldn't expect to win every game at this level but we are all sat here dissecting a defeat to Harrogate, with resources likely half of what we have, and let's be honest we all went into today thinking it was going to be a tough game.
Zoom out, look at the big picture. We have over a number of years now hugely underperformed, massively. This is not just the odd bad season or bad manager, this is a major collapse.
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The team continues to cry out for leadership.
I can't think of one signing we've made in the last three years who 100% ticks this box; character, strength in adversity, physicality, a winning mentality.
Of the current bunch, Ironside shows it the most and young Bailey looks like he's got it in him. Anderson might have had it once, a long, long time ago but not any more. I thought Wood might bring a bit but he's gone MIA. As for the rest...
To me it's the key reason why our midfield-central defence-goalkeeper spine is so lacking and why we are joke defensively. I'm a bit surprised as I would have thought that GM would have identified one or two in his own mould as early signings.
Ironside has all those traits you mention but he is not vocal. Not a captain.
Tommy Rowe is unbelievably quiet considering he is now captain.
Last 30 mins of todays game I didn’t know he was still on the pitch. He completely disappeared.
He can’t play 90 mins anymore that’s for sure.
So why did GM leave him on?
Only player over 30 on the pitch maybe? I was baffled.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Knowing Rovers. Taylor will get fit for 10 matches and we'll give him a 2 year deal.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Knowing Rovers. Taylor will get fit for 10 matches and we'll give him a 2 year deal.
Injuries aside, I reckon there must be around 10 players who never feature in games and quite possibly never will. They probably account, collectively, for around £25k a month of wages. That would pay the wages of two decent players at this level.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Knowing Rovers. Taylor will get fit for 10 matches and we'll give him a 2 year deal.
Injuries aside, I reckon there must be around 10 players who never feature in games and quite possibly never will. They probably account, collectively, for around £25k a month of wages. That would pay the wages of two decent players at this level.
That would pay the wages of two good L1 players.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
The only mitigation is McCann trying to transition the squad. I'm sure it's not by his design we've got such a big squad but when you think of the contracted players who have barely kicked a ball and those who are on their way out, we can maybe start to see some wood for trees.
I'm sure we would love to see just a bit more quality and character out there in exchange but we're only in McCanns second window, which January was always unlikely for recruiting established quality. The summer window will be the one where he can really sort out much of the baggage.
My disappointment, along with others, is he didn't really get the quality down the spine of the team (with the exception of Ironside) Midfield, keeper and centre back being the obvious areas, which leaves us to ponder whether the decisions on Wood and Lawlor were sanctioned before McCann took control. That said, I thought Wood in the short term would bring a positive and steadying influence. Hindsight eh!?
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Recruitment on the law of averages.
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The Harrogate stadium only holds 5,000 and the attendance at the match was only 1,017 and yet they can put together a team that can beat Rovers 3-1. I was in the west stand at the home match on 5th Aug and was in total disbelief that we could lose 0-1. I knew then we would be in trouble as McCann had had all pre-season to prepare this squad.
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The Harrogate stadium only holds 5,000 and the attendance at the match was only 1,017 and yet they can put together a team that can beat Rovers 3-1. I was in the west stand at the home match on 5th Aug and was in total disbelief that we could lose 0-1. I knew then we would be in trouble as McCann had had all pre-season to prepare this squad.
The attendance today was not 1,017? We took 800.
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The Harrogate stadium only holds 5,000 and the attendance at the match was only 1,017 and yet they can put together a team that can beat Rovers 3-1. I was in the west stand at the home match on 5th Aug and was in total disbelief that we could lose 0-1. I knew then we would be in trouble as McCann had had all pre-season to prepare this squad.
The attendance today was not 1,017? We took 800.
3137 attendance.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Recruitment on the law of averages.
The so-called “law” of averages doesn’t really exist. Misplaced anyway I think in this context.
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At least the Red Kites were a nice site. Like Wycombe away maybe the highlight *
* For those who were looking upwards and not sitting with their heads in their hands
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Very frustrating to watch. I was hoping Rowe's quick response would have set the tone for the game, wasn't so bad the first half.
Absolutely crumbled 2nd half, fitness levels prevailed. The 2nd and 3rd Harrogate goals were painful to watch, going through our defence was like a knife through butter at times, made it look so easy.
Could literally see & hear everything coming from McCann's mouth as I was right on the half way line. Constantly shouting 'Focus', in-between the odd verbal to the 4th official.
GM needs to ruffle some feathers in the dressing room & sharpish.
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The one consistent over the last few seasons is the shoulder shrugging. It is no more evident than when we concede. Nobody is there like Pickford beating the shit out of the ground if a goal is conceded. It’s symbolic of accepting losing as an unfortunate act of god like getting a cold or it raining. Nothing we can do about it. “We go again”.
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Very frustrating to watch. I was hoping Rowe's quick response would have set the tone for the game, wasn't so bad the first half.
Absolutely crumbled 2nd half, fitness levels prevailed. The 2nd and 3rd Harrogate goals were painful to watch, going through our defence was like a knife through butter at times, made it look so easy.
Could literally see & hear everything coming from McCann's mouth as I was right on the half way line. Constantly shouting 'Focus', in-between the odd verbal to the 4th official.
GM needs to ruffle some feathers in the dressing room & sharpish.
I sit in the south stand so it was a rare occasion I stood so close to the dugouts yesterday.
I was surprised how quiet McCann was. I expected him to be a lot more vocal than that.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Recruitment on the law of averages.
The so-called “law” of averages doesn’t really exist. Misplaced anyway I think in this context.
I know what he means though. Feels like a recruitment process so flimsy that such a large element is left down to luck. That luck will always throw up ok players as in Bailey and the multiple horror shows we’ve signed recently.
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I think this season we’ve signed more good ones than poor.
Ironside, faal, Bailey, senior, Sterry, Nixon, are all good signings.
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The team continues to cry out for leadership.
I can't think of one signing we've made in the last three years who 100% ticks this box; character, strength in adversity, physicality, a winning mentality.
Of the current bunch, Ironside shows it the most and young Bailey looks like he's got it in him. Anderson might have had it once, a long, long time ago but not any more. I thought Wood might bring a bit but he's gone MIA. As for the rest...
To me it's the key reason why our midfield-central defence-goalkeeper spine is so lacking and why we are joke defensively. I'm a bit surprised as I would have thought that GM would have been able to identify one or two in his own mould as early signings.
Wood?
Gone awol.
He's finished, complete has-been.
Poor signing
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
It's crazy, a result of the club been ran horrifically for years without any accountability.
It's going to take years to slow the decline. Never mind turn it around.
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Perhaps "we're" thinking how many of those 35 are available to play week in week out? Cut out the sick and lame and how many are left to pick from, add into that if everyone was fit how many of those currently fit would then make the starting 11?
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It upsets me in the fact that we are back where we were in the early 90s.
Difference being we play in a better stadium with even more empty shiny seats and bills get paid on time.
Sobering thought. The amount of money on wages we waste is incredible really. Is it a 35 man squad we now have??? In League 2. That’s f**king mental. What are we thinking.
Perhaps "we're" thinking how many of those 35 are available to play week in week out? Cut out the sick and lame and how many are left to pick from, add into that if everyone was fit how many of those currently fit would then make the starting 11?
Eleven? :thumbsup: :woohoo:
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A more difficult question is - of the remaining fit ones, how many are good enough to get in the 11?
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That's what I asked
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The one consistent over the last few seasons is the shoulder shrugging. It is no more evident than when we concede. Nobody is there like Pickford beating the shit out of the ground if a goal is conceded. It’s symbolic of accepting losing as an unfortunate act of god like getting a cold or it raining. Nothing we can do about it. “We go again”.
It has been that way for the last three seasons at least.
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A squad of 35 and I reckon about 9 of them are good enough for this league, and that includes Westbrooke (injured) and Nixon and Faal (not our players)
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Very frustrating to watch. I was hoping Rowe's quick response would have set the tone for the game, wasn't so bad the first half.
Absolutely crumbled 2nd half, fitness levels prevailed. The 2nd and 3rd Harrogate goals were painful to watch, going through our defence was like a knife through butter at times, made it look so easy.
Could literally see & hear everything coming from McCann's mouth as I was right on the half way line. Constantly shouting 'Focus', in-between the odd verbal to the 4th official.
GM needs to ruffle some feathers in the dressing room & sharpish.
I sit in the south stand so it was a rare occasion I stood so close to the dugouts yesterday.
I was surprised how quiet McCann was. I expected him to be a lot more vocal than that.
He was quiet compared to the Harrogate manager.
I'm not shifting all the blame onto the players, GM & CB have to take some of the flack. Questions have to be asked about how vigorous the training is during the week, because it's really affecting us now. We're at the wrong end of the table and have got to pull up our socks quickly, we're miles off the mark of the grit & determination shown in that Everton cup game (best performance i've seen this season imo).