Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sprotyrover on January 07, 2024, 12:47:23 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/16/nitrogen-wars-the-dutch-farmers-revolt-that-turned-a-nation-upside-down
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https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/08/uk-manufacturers-are-optimistic-about-2024
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sprot, are you happy subsidies are being cut or happy the farmers are protesting or both?
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I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!
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I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!
The elected representative from 27 countries?
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I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!
The elected representative from 27 countries?
That’s why I voted leave Syd,it’s bad enough in South Yorkshire with Oliver Coppard screwing us here in Doncaster with his Trams funding!
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I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!
The elected representative from 27 countries?
That’s why I voted leave Syd,it’s bad enough in South Yorkshire with Oliver Coppard screwing us here in Doncaster with his Trams funding!
Yeah. Who wanted that €3bn that the Eurocrats were going to give to Yorkshire anyway, eh?
f**king hell fire, I seem to have slipped through the cracks into a looking glass world
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Latest report is that some countries want to strip Hungary of their vote because they are scared of Oban and the rise of the right in other countries getting together to upset the nice little earner others have built for themselves.
Is that a new way of democracy, if it doesn't agree with you get rid of it.
Now I don't like, and have no respect for the bloke, or his politics, but, if the voting system allows the right whether you like it or not to win elections, in say France, Hungary, Italy, and the Netherlands, something that was hard to imagine just a few years ago, should the system really be changed just to stop the popular vote?
It is a question the EU might have to answer shortly.
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Meanwhile, the Government has announced, in parliament, a genuine Brexit benefit.
https://twitter.com/thatcymraes/status/1745096744965173456
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Latest report is that some countries want to strip Hungary of their vote because they are scared of Oban and the rise of the right in other countries getting together to upset the nice little earner others have built for themselves.
Is that a new way of democracy, if it doesn't agree with you get rid of it.
Now I don't like, and have no respect for the bloke, or his politics, but, if the voting system allows the right whether you like it or not to win elections, in say France, Hungary, Italy, and the Netherlands, something that was hard to imagine just a few years ago, should the system really be changed just to stop the popular vote?
It is a question the EU might have to answer shortly.
According to a poll I read in the Daily Telegraph , this summer's elections for the European Parliament are likely to increase the MEP's by a third who are either wanting to leave the European Union or wish to see massive change at the very least .
That's a third without our own anti EU MEP's of course .
Interesting times across Europe with the rise of the Right .
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I am glad that Farmers in Germany and the Netherlands are standing up for themselves against the Eurocrats!
The elected representative from 27 countries?
That’s why I voted leave Syd,it’s bad enough in South Yorkshire with Oliver Coppard screwing us here in Doncaster with his Trams funding!
Yeah. Who wanted that €3bn that the Eurocrats were going to give to Yorkshire anyway, eh?
f**king hell fire, I seem to have slipped through the cracks into a looking glass world
Billy You send me £20 and I will send you a £5 note back!. Do you think you getting a good deal?
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Sproty.
You never get it do you?
Forget Britain. You're not British. You're from Doncaster. You are from one of the poorest areas in Europe.
This Government doesn't give a f**k about you and Doncaster. But the EU did. The EU has a very enlightened policy of spreading money from the wealthy to the poor.
You, being from Doncaster, were one of the big gainers from this.
And you just do not get it. Because you think you're British, and the Tory British Government will look after you.
It's actually really sad to see.
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Just to expand on that, because I know it will have tweaked a few noses.
I read a book recently on the economic history of the UK. The author quoted someone who had jokingly said the UK economy of basically Portugal with a big Singapore stuck on the south east corner.
That's a bit of a exaggeration. Singapore is much richer per head than the South East of England. The rest of the UK is a bit richer per head than Portugal.
But the point stands. We in the North are not wealthy. We have a GDP per head less than half that of London. It's about the same as Lisbon and Chemnitz (ever been to Chemnitz? I went 15 years ago. Christ it was grim, and I'm from Denaby. It's now caught up with Yorkshire.)
In terms of income relative to the cost of living, Yorkshire is about on a par with Poznan and Sofia. Way, WAY poorer than Prague and Bratislava and Bucharest and Zagreb and Warsaw.
And that is the point.
The UK as a whole is relatively wealthy compared to the EU average.
Yorkshire isn't.
And South Yorkshire is poorer than the Yorkshire average.
And under this Govt that has only got worse. Because, at heart, they don't give two f**ks about you Sproty.
Whereas the EU has long had a policy of trying to build up the weaker economic areas, by taking from the richer ones and providing strategic investment funds. For things like the Frenchgate transport interchange. The airport. The new link road off the M18. The rail port. Or, looking wider, the AMRC at Sheffield.
You voted to tell them to keep that money to themselves. Because you are British and as a Brit, you told yourself that you are a net contributor to the beggars of the EU.
That definitely served the purpose of the people who WERE net contributors. Like Rees Mogg and his mate Odey. Like Farage's mates.
But you're not them. You're in one of the poorer parts of Europe.
And you WERE a net beneficiary of EU money. Until you gave them the rods.
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You are not getting it Billy
Just to expand on that, because I know it will have tweaked a few noses.
I read a book recently on the economic history of the UK. The author quoted someone who had jokingly said the UK economy of basically Portugal with a big Singapore stuck on the south east corner.
That's a bit of a exaggeration. Singapore is much richer per head than the South East of England. The rest of the UK is a bit richer per head than Portugal.
But the point stands. We in the North are not wealthy. We have a GDP per head less than half that of London. It's about the same as Lisbon and Chemnitz (ever been to Chemnitz? I went 15 years ago. Christ it was grim, and I'm from Denaby. It's now caught up with Yorkshire.)
In terms of income relative to the cost of living, Yorkshire is about on a par with Poznan and Sofia. Way, WAY poorer than Prague and Bratislava and Bucharest and Zagreb and Warsaw.
And that is the point.
The UK as a whole is relatively wealthy compared to the EU average.
Yorkshire isn't.
And South Yorkshire is poorer than the Yorkshire average.
And under this Govt that has only got worse. Because, at heart, they don't give two f**ks about you Sproty.
Whereas the EU has long had a policy of trying to build up the weaker economic areas, by taking from the richer ones and providing strategic investment funds. For things like the Frenchgate transport interchange. The airport. The new link road off the M18. The rail port. Or, looking wider, the AMRC at Sheffield.
You voted to tell them to keep that money to themselves. Because you are British and as a Brit, you told yourself that you are a net contributor to the beggars of the EU.
That definitely served the purpose of the people who WERE net contributors. Like Rees Mogg and his mate Odey. Like Farage's mates.
But you're not them. You're in one of the poorer parts of Europe.
And you WERE a net beneficiary of EU money. Until you gave them the rods.
I am British and I understand that If we give the EU £13billion and they return £3 Billion we are £10 Billion out of pocket! What part of that don’t you understand?
Also why is your mate Copout throwing 113 £ million of Doncaster’s money on The Sheffield Trams System. And I assume that Doncaster is one of the wealthiest parts of the UK as our Mayor Nana Ros is quite happy to donate £6.5 million of our annual borough budget to prop up the Tram system,so don’t Rabbit on about Doncaster being deprived it only is when it Suits Labour Party scrounging.
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Most of the EU members are paid more by the EU than they contribute. This was financed mainly by the Big Three net contributors France, Germany and the UK. They lost 25% of their income with the loss of the UK and have been unable to make commensurate cuts in spending.
London is the world's 2nd most important financial centre, fintech centre and services provider. The EU has now lost these.
The UK was a leading partner in numerous science and technology EU-wide projects. The EU now has to curtail these
The UK was the leader of the liberal free-market anti-federalisation section of the EU and put the brakes on the worst excesses of the EU government. Those members of a like-mind such as the Netherlands and the Baltic countries, have lost their biggest champion and protector
The UK was the destination of 12% of exports of the EU as a whole but for certain counties, such as Ireland, Netherlands, etc their exports were more than double that and for certain products very much higher - for instance over one third of Prosecco production was exported to the UK and nearly 100% of Ireland's mushroom production was exported to the UK. These markets have considerably shrunk and will soon lose out further from trade deal countries like Australia and New Zealand.
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Most of the EU members are paid more by the EU than they contribute. This was financed mainly by the Big Three net contributors France, Germany and the UK. They lost 25% of their income with the loss of the UK and have been unable to make commensurate cuts in spending.
London is the world's 2nd most important financial centre, fintech centre and services provider. The EU has now lost these.
The UK was a leading partner in numerous science and technology EU-wide projects. The EU now has to curtail these
The UK was the leader of the liberal free-market anti-federalisation section of the EU and put the brakes on the worst excesses of the EU government. Those members of a like-mind such as the Netherlands and the Baltic countries, have lost their biggest champion and protector
The UK was the destination of 12% of exports of the EU as a whole but for certain counties, such as Ireland, Netherlands, etc their exports were more than double that and for certain products very much higher - for instance over one third of Prosecco production was exported to the UK and nearly 100% of Ireland's mushroom production was exported to the UK. These markets have considerably shrunk and will soon lose out further from trade deal countries like Australia and New Zealand.
That is a fairly comprehensive list sproty.
I have no doubt that it will be challenged by one or two posters but even if only part of it is PROVEN to be wrong then it still leaves plenty of nett loss for the EU.
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Sproty.
I thought I'd made it bleeding obvious, but apparently not.
Yes (if you are considering the bare transactions and ignoring the benefits to the wider economy) the UK paid more to the EU than it received.
But this is the point.
Yorkshire received more than it contributed. Because Yorkshire is one of the poorer parts of Europe.
What happens now is that the UK as a whole (again, ignoring the wider benefits) is better off because it has divested itself of the net contribution it used to make.
BUT. Here's the key. Yorkshire is only better off if the UK Govt makes up the net positive income that Yorkshire used to receive from the EU. Johnson promised that would happen. Have a guess what's happened in reality. Go on. Have a guess.
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''Brexit is the best thing that ever happened to Britain''
''Doncaster is one of the most impoverished places in England, where a third of children are living in poverty and 41% of residents fall into the bottom 20% of incomes nationwide. Women in Doncaster have the third-worst healthy life expectancy in the country, with an average of 24 years spent living with ill health (for men this figure is 21 years)''
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/11/babies-battle-ropes-and-billy-joel-how-doncaster-rovers-reach-out
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Time is money and there was a hell of a lot of time spent on trying to get brexit to work.
Can you please expand on “worst excesses of EU government”. Because apart from immigration (didn’t make a difference) all I ever saw at the time was menial things surrounding fishing, health and safety laws and the metric system being parroted by the likes of The Express etc.
Did these “worst excesses” outweigh the cumulative benefits of having access to such easy liberal free trade as you say?
The UK government still has the power to be authoritarian if it pleases, without being in the EU. So I don’t I don’t understand the liberty angle.
Time was also money for businesses trading with the EU who had to devise and adhere to completely new framework. On top of the uncertainty in the markets that will have hit them financially.
If everyone knew net immigration was going to be unchanged and even increased in the years after Brexit, the vote would have been an absolute Remain whitewash. It’s going to have to be a hell of an argument to say otherwise.
Also, economies are more complex than Money in / money out. We all benefit if the poorer members of the trade agreement we’re in get richer.
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"Also, economies are more complex than Money in / money out. We all benefit if the poorer members of the trade agreement we’re in get richer."
This. This x1000.
That's the key benefit of the EU which was totally lost when the Little Englanders took over the debate in 2016.
They made it an argument based on simple accounting transactions (and then lied about that - £350m/week...).
The issue about all of us being richer when our nearest trading partners are richer got totally lost. That was the really big problem with the style and substance of the referendum debate. It became a Mercantilism argument: If someone else is winning, I must be losing.
That sort of playground nonsense was swept out of economics nearly 200 years ago. But it sounds good to people who don't think deeply about it. Hence some folk in here loving it when the EU has problems, because they think if they are losing, we must be winning.
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Looking forward to the Brexiteers pointing out that anyone still talking about Brexit 7 years after the referendum is a 'Moaner' and needs to get over it.
Must be busy...
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What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.
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"Also, economies are more complex than Money in / money out. We all benefit if the poorer members of the trade agreement we’re in get richer."
This. This x1000.
That's the key benefit of the EU which was totally lost when the Little Englanders took over the debate in 2016.
They made it an argument based on simple accounting transactions (and then lied about that - £350m/week...).
The issue about all of us being richer when our nearest trading partners are richer got totally lost. That was the really big problem with the style and substance of the referendum debate. It became a Mercantilism argument: If someone else is winning, I must be losing.
That sort of playground nonsense was swept out of economics nearly 200 years ago. But it sounds good to people who don't think deeply about it. Hence some folk in here loving it when the EU has problems, because they think if they are losing, we must be winning.
You are talking a load of rubbish as usual, the next Government will probably be a Labour Government and we will see if there is any financial benefit for the destitute North, once all of those impoverished London Boroughs overseen by Khan have had their slice of the cake.
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And with that Sproty, I'm out. Pointless really.
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Trade with the EU has actually grown as a % of the UK's total trade since Brexit - in contradiction as to what Remainers predicted.
Not because it has grown particularly, it hasn't, but because the UK's trade with the rest of the world has stagnated - in contradiction as to what Brexiteers promised.
So the UK is now even more dependant on the EU than it was when it was a member of the EU - in contradiction as to what Brexiteers promised!!
Well done sproty. You must be so proud:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexiteer-boasts-global-britain-mirage-uk-eu-trade-matters-2849638
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Looking forward to the Brexiteers pointing out that anyone still talking about Brexit 7 years after the referendum is a 'Moaner' and needs to get over it.
Must be busy...
No, Wilts, it was your glorious leader, Keith, who said that. "It's time for everyone to move on from Brexit".
You should listen to him.
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Latest report is that some countries want to strip Hungary of their vote because they are scared of Oban and the rise of the right in other countries getting together to upset the nice little earner others have built for themselves.
Is that a new way of democracy, if it doesn't agree with you get rid of it.
Now I don't like, and have no respect for the bloke, or his politics, but, if the voting system allows the right whether you like it or not to win elections, in say France, Hungary, Italy, and the Netherlands, something that was hard to imagine just a few years ago, should the system really be changed just to stop the popular vote?
It is a question the EU might have to answer shortly.
Sounds like all the 'latest reports' that the Mail printed all the time that never came true.
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What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.
What about them hound? Do you think that is more acceptable?
Shall we see if you have ever criticised Remainers for saying anything? And Brexiteers for the same thing? For balance.
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What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.
What about them hound? Do you think that is more acceptable?
Shall we see if you have ever criticised Remainers for saying anything? And Brexiteers for the same thing? For balance.
Wilts, I never thought you would get like Syd and answer a question with a question.
However, do what you have to do.
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Looking forward to the Brexiteers pointing out that anyone still talking about Brexit 7 years after the referendum is a 'Moaner' and needs to get over it.
Must be busy...
No, Wilts, it was your glorious leader, Keith, who said that. "It's time for everyone to move on from Brexit".
You should listen to him.
My glorious leader? Where have I said I support him? You are as accurate as most Johnson followers.
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What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.
What about them hound? Do you think that is more acceptable?
Shall we see if you have ever criticised Remainers for saying anything? And Brexiteers for the same thing? For balance.
Wilts, I never thought you would get like Syd and answer a question with a question.
However, do what you have to do.
I was just following your lead hound.
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What about remainers who say the same thing wilts.
Is that more acceptable.
What about them hound? Do you think that is more acceptable?
Shall we see if you have ever criticised Remainers for saying anything? And Brexiteers for the same thing? For balance.
Wilts, I never thought you would get like Syd and answer a question with a question.
However, do what you have to do.
I was just following your lead hound.
Nice one. :lol:
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Continuing on a theme ........
Central government spend per head on Public Transport
Greater Manchester: ₤33
West Yorkshire: ₤34
West Midlands: ₤30
South Yorkshire: ₤4.50
https://www.facebook.com/MayorRos/
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Continuing on a theme ........
Central government spend per head on Public Transport
Greater Manchester: ₤33
West Yorkshire: ₤34
West Midlands: ₤30
South Yorkshire: ₤4.50
https://www.facebook.com/MayorRos/
Some good examples there Syd, Andy Burnham and Tracy Brabim are clearly better scroungers
than Oliviver Coppout !
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Our North is clearly your South Syd, get some Co Enzyme Q10 tabs taken
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Continuing on a theme ........
Central government spend per head on Public Transport
Greater Manchester: ₤33
West Yorkshire: ₤34
West Midlands: ₤30
South Yorkshire: ₤4.50
https://www.facebook.com/MayorRos/
The same Ros Jones who has agreed to give several millions of pounds of Doncaster tax payers money to support the failing Sheffield Supertram system, despite saying in 2018 that this wouldn’t happen.
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There's another thread on this that you started.
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You are so intuitive.
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You are so intuitive.
You are stalking me. Weird!!
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:lol:
:P
Yapping away at my heels.
:P
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:lol:
:P
Yapping away at my heels.
:P
Go away, you are boring everyone.
Stop spoiling threads for people. :byebye:
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:lol:
:P
Yapping away at my heels.
:P
Go away, you are boring everyone.
Stop spoiling threads for people. :byebye:
Can you not see the hypocrisy of what you say and write.
Don't be so patronising and speak for everyone apart from your little gang.
You haven't exactly set the forum alight with interesting threads or posts have you? No,you've had numerous posters say how petty you are,or have refused to answer/blocked you
Does that not tell you something?
It really should.
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The EU's impact on wealth distribution through tax/public spending in the UK was minimal. Anybody who voted Remain in 2016 thinking different was hopelessly misguided.
This was through no fault of the EU itself. It's certainly true the organization had a policy of distributing wealth from richer to poorer areas.
The EU simply didn't have the financial clout to make a significant difference in this area.
Total EU public expenditure in the UK in 2014-5 (taken as the last full year before the Brexit campaign but any year would do) was £4.3bn of which £3.1bn was farming subsidies. Leaving just £1.2bn on capital/social projects.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819f7ce5274a2e87dbea12/EU_finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf
Compare this to the £734.4bn spent by the UK central Government alone (excl Local Government) in the same year.
Of the £1.2bn EU non-agricultural spend roughly £82m was spent in the Yorkshire and Humber region. Or £15.50 per person.
www.academia.edu/36638033/UK_regions_and_European_structural_and_investment_funds.
For comparison the Sheffield Supertram renewal mentioned above is expected to cost c. £600m alone.
It's a fallacy that the EU significantly funded major infrastructure projects in Doncaster or any other part of the UK. It made relatively small (but not unwelcome) contributions to such projects.
Because that was all it could afford to do.
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The EU's impact on wealth distribution through tax/public spending in the UK was minimal. Anybody who voted Remain in 2016 thinking different was hopelessly misguided.
This was through no fault of the EU itself. It's certainly true the organization had a policy of distributing wealth from richer to poorer areas.
The EU simply didn't have the financial clout to make a significant difference in this area.
Total EU public expenditure in the UK in 2014-5 (taken as the last full year before the Brexit campaign but any year would do) was £4.3bn of which £3.1bn was farming subsidies. Leaving just £1.2bn on capital/social projects.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819f7ce5274a2e87dbea12/EU_finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf
Compare this to the £734.4bn spent by the UK central Government alone (excl Local Government) in the same year.
Of the £1.2bn EU non-agricultural spend roughly £82m was spent in the Yorkshire and Humber region. Or £15.50 per person.
www.academia.edu/36638033/UK_regions_and_European_structural_and_investment_funds.
For comparison the Sheffield Supertram renewal mentioned above is expected to cost c. £600m alone.
It's a fallacy that the EU significantly funded major infrastructure projects in Doncaster or any other part of the UK. It made relatively small (but not unwelcome) contributions to such projects.
Because that was all it could afford to do.
And if any of our ‘wet lettuce liberal lefty ‘ members think we that had we remained, we would have been even getting a meagre proportion of those measly
handouts they are severely deluded!
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The EU's impact on wealth distribution through tax/public spending in the UK was minimal. Anybody who voted Remain in 2016 thinking different was hopelessly misguided.
This was through no fault of the EU itself. It's certainly true the organization had a policy of distributing wealth from richer to poorer areas.
The EU simply didn't have the financial clout to make a significant difference in this area.
Total EU public expenditure in the UK in 2014-5 (taken as the last full year before the Brexit campaign but any year would do) was £4.3bn of which £3.1bn was farming subsidies. Leaving just £1.2bn on capital/social projects.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819f7ce5274a2e87dbea12/EU_finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf
Compare this to the £734.4bn spent by the UK central Government alone (excl Local Government) in the same year.
Of the £1.2bn EU non-agricultural spend roughly £82m was spent in the Yorkshire and Humber region. Or £15.50 per person.
www.academia.edu/36638033/UK_regions_and_European_structural_and_investment_funds.
For comparison the Sheffield Supertram renewal mentioned above is expected to cost c. £600m alone.
It's a fallacy that the EU significantly funded major infrastructure projects in Doncaster or any other part of the UK. It made relatively small (but not unwelcome) contributions to such projects.
Because that was all it could afford to do.
Interesting Branton, you make some good points but your comment imho is missing some necessary conclusions so that it addresses the thrust of the topic. Two questions come to mind.
Is Britain at this point in time in a better financial position due to Brexit?
Is South Yorkshire at this point in time in a better financial Position due to Brexit?
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The EU's impact on wealth distribution through tax/public spending in the UK was minimal. Anybody who voted Remain in 2016 thinking different was hopelessly misguided.
This was through no fault of the EU itself. It's certainly true the organization had a policy of distributing wealth from richer to poorer areas.
The EU simply didn't have the financial clout to make a significant difference in this area.
Total EU public expenditure in the UK in 2014-5 (taken as the last full year before the Brexit campaign but any year would do) was £4.3bn of which £3.1bn was farming subsidies. Leaving just £1.2bn on capital/social projects.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819f7ce5274a2e87dbea12/EU_finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf
Compare this to the £734.4bn spent by the UK central Government alone (excl Local Government) in the same year.
Of the £1.2bn EU non-agricultural spend roughly £82m was spent in the Yorkshire and Humber region. Or £15.50 per person.
www.academia.edu/36638033/UK_regions_and_European_structural_and_investment_funds.
For comparison the Sheffield Supertram renewal mentioned above is expected to cost c. £600m alone.
It's a fallacy that the EU significantly funded major infrastructure projects in Doncaster or any other part of the UK. It made relatively small (but not unwelcome) contributions to such projects.
Because that was all it could afford to do.
Branton.
How much did the EU put into South Yorkshire under Objective One funding?
How much were they going to put in when we had, under this Govt, sunk again to levels where we were eligible for similar funding?
Get those figures and we can have a sensible discussion, rather than picking a year when that didn't apply and aggregating across the whole country.
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Branton.
How much did the EU put into South Yorkshire under Objective One funding?
How much were they going to put in when we had, under this Govt, sunk again to levels where we were eligible for similar funding?
Get those figures and we can have a sensible discussion, rather than picking a year when that didn't apply and aggregating across the whole country.
South Yorkshire lost Objective One funding in 2006. 17 years ago! At the end of that particular funding period.
It was no longer considered to be one of the poorest regions in the EU due to accession around that time of much of Eastern Europe.
Unless you can show compelling evidence (and good luck!), as opposed to baseless conjecture, that SY is likely to fall back into the Objective One program your point is irrelevant.
Or you could engage with the factual and relevant data in my prior post and have a have a sensible discussion.
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Interesting Branton, you make some good points but your comment imho is missing some necessary conclusions so that it addresses the thrust of the topic. Two questions come to mind.
Is Britain at this point in time in a better financial position due to Brexit?
Is South Yorkshire at this point in time in a better financial Position due to Brexit?
Sydney - Thanks. I was replying to a specific point on EU wealth distribution through tax/spend.
Overall I believe that the impact of Brexit has been incredibly mild economically as I've explained with data previously www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=288804.0.
This ties into my expectations back in 2016.
I don't have any reason to believe that this would be any different in South Yorkshire.
With respect, knowing you're a keen Europhile, I remain baffled as to what the ongoing fuss over the decision is about.
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The EU's impact on wealth distribution through tax/public spending in the UK was minimal. Anybody who voted Remain in 2016 thinking different was hopelessly misguided.
This was through no fault of the EU itself. It's certainly true the organization had a policy of distributing wealth from richer to poorer areas.
The EU simply didn't have the financial clout to make a significant difference in this area.
Total EU public expenditure in the UK in 2014-5 (taken as the last full year before the Brexit campaign but any year would do) was £4.3bn of which £3.1bn was farming subsidies. Leaving just £1.2bn on capital/social projects.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a819f7ce5274a2e87dbea12/EU_finances_2015_final_web_09122015.pdf
Compare this to the £734.4bn spent by the UK central Government alone (excl Local Government) in the same year.
Of the £1.2bn EU non-agricultural spend roughly £82m was spent in the Yorkshire and Humber region. Or £15.50 per person.
www.academia.edu/36638033/UK_regions_and_European_structural_and_investment_funds.
For comparison the Sheffield Supertram renewal mentioned above is expected to cost c. £600m alone.
It's a fallacy that the EU significantly funded major infrastructure projects in Doncaster or any other part of the UK. It made relatively small (but not unwelcome) contributions to such projects.
Because that was all it could afford to do.
Branton.
How much did the EU put into South Yorkshire under Objective One funding?
How much were they going to put in when we had, under this Govt, sunk again to levels where we were eligible for similar funding?
Get those figures and we can have a sensible discussion, rather than picking a year when that didn't apply and aggregating across the whole country.
I think you are delusional Billy, living in the past even, back in 2001, I had to attend a meeting at the Ivanho Centre in Conaby the local Labour Council had secured some funding, and I sat there listening to them spouting off about how Conisborough ward was one of the most deprived Wards in the UK, I sat there pissing myself laughing as I had an intimate knowledge of the Ward which included all those posh areas south of Sheffield Road and the Area around the Castle, I even recall how the council had built those shitty flats near the Castle to promote poverty, unfortunately all that creative accounting used by Labour just doesn’t ring true,anymore! you can see what the Ward is all about on Google.
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Branton.
1) Yes I know Objective 1 status ended for SY 17 years ago. I also know you chose to pluck a figure from 10 years ago. Do you have the judge's say on where the cut off is?
2) I also know that, for reasons best know to yourself, you referred to total UK funding from the EU, when I was talking specifically about SY funding.
3) You are factually wrong about the reason O1 status ended for SY in 2007. It was nothing to do with EU average GDP being diluted by poorer accession states. After 7 years of O1 status, SY's GDP had risen to above 75% of the average of the EU15 states. We would have lost O1 status even if the accession states hadn't joined. Why is an indication of just how successful O1 status was for SY.
4) You ask what evidence I have that we were going back to O1 status. (Note: I didn't say that, because O1 as such no longer exists.) Of course, there's no official word on this from the EU, because we'd signalled our intention to leave the EU when the new funding decisions kicked in from 2021. Analysis by the Conference of Peripheral and Maritime Regions is the only one I'm aware of that has looked at the likely EU income for UK regions from 2021, had we not left. It concluded that SY was likely to fall below the level of 75% of EU average GDP, and was therefore likely to be eligible for the highest investment levels from the EU Cohesion Fund (effectively O1 status) from 2021-2027.
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Branton.
1) Yes I know Objective 1 status ended for SY 17 years ago. I also know you chose to pluck a figure from 10 years ago. Do you have the judge's say on where the cut off is?
2) I also know that, for reasons best know to yourself, you referred to total UK funding from the EU, when I was talking specifically about SY funding.
3) You are factually wrong about the reason O1 status ended for SY in 2007. It was nothing to do with EU average GDP being diluted by poorer accession states. After 7 years of O1 status, SY's GDP had risen to above 75% of the average of the EU15 states. We would have lost O1 status even if the accession states hadn't joined. Why is an indication of just how successful O1 status was for SY.
4) You ask what evidence I have that we were going back to O1 status. (Note: I didn't say that, because O1 as such no longer exists.) Of course, there's no official word on this from the EU, because we'd signalled our intention to leave the EU when the new funding decisions kicked in from 2021. Analysis by the Conference of Peripheral and Maritime Regions is the only one I'm aware of that has looked at the likely EU income for UK regions from 2021, had we not left. It concluded that SY was likely to fall below the level of 75% of EU average GDP, and was therefore likely to be eligible for the highest investment levels from the EU Cohesion Fund (effectively O1 status) from 2021-2027.
Billy
1) I picked out 2014-5. But this was the 1st year of the EU's 7 year funding round and so the analysis applies pretty much equally right up to 2020 when we left the EU - I can't get any more recent than that.
2) No I also quite clearly and specifically stated how much non-agricultural monies would be received by the Yorkshire and the Humber region (c. £82m) - SY is not treated as a separate region under the EU's funding formula - SY obviously would have got a share of this c. £82m per annum every 7 years up to 2020
3) Please can you provide a link to the report you reference including an indication of how much financially this could have meant for SY. You need to put some meat on the bones of your argument. Ta.
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Certainly Branton.
https://cpmr.org/wpdm-package/uk-allocation-for-cohesion-policy-for-post2020/?wpdmdl=20524&ind=1550570009760
They could only estimate the figures of course, but they reckoned SY would have been in for >€700m over 7 years. ( >€500 per person, with a population of about 1.4m.) (Note. I had incorrectly said the figure was much higher previously, because I'd read a media report that quoted this as €700m per year. That's ridiculously high with hindsight - something like 2-3% of the entire GDP of SY.)
If this was correct, it would have been similar in magnitude to the O1 funding we got in 2000-06, which subsidised the Frenchgate Centre, the airport, the rail port, the AMRC in Catcliffe and (to quote a review by the LSE) "a vast number of development projects".
And before you compare this funding to the cost of Supertram (which will be amortized over the thick end of half a century anyway), remember the point of much of the O1 money is to act as leverage for private sector investment. Projects which could tap into O1 funds were much more likely to attract private sector interest. Which is why it was so successful back in the early 00s.
All academic now anyway. SY took their lead from Farage and Rees Mogg and Johnson and told the taxpayers of Stockholm and Milan that we weren't interested.
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Thanks for that Billy. Interesting. (On a side note the graph on page 5 should be a source of great national shame).
So instead of SY taking a share of c. £82m from the Yorkshire and Humber pot in 2014-2020 per year. (£16 per person per year)
In 2021-2027 South Yorkshire would potentially have received c. £86m per year alone. (£64 per person per year).
So a quadrupling of funding in effect for South Yorkshire.
Of course that would have been beneficial and I'm certainly wasn't critiquing the EU's policy on wealth distribution in this area - just their financial clout.
However in capital expenditure terms it's still not massive (I won't mention the cost of Supertram alone again - but the point still stands) - though not something to dismiss as lightly as the £16 per head received in 2014-20.
(Most capital spend is amortised over the long term - that's just an accounting treatment and largely irrelevant to the impact on economic growth. What's important is the benefit of the project on increased commerce and the impact of the cash paid to builders etc producing the product then swishing around the economy promoting spend and further growth).
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Branton.
Yep, the increase would have been about 4 fold. That's pretty much what the mark up was when SY went into O1 in 2000, so that confirms your numbers.
Whether it's massive or not really depends on how effectively it would have been used I guess. I don't know how much investment goes into SY per year, but I'd have thought that €100m of free money chucked into the mix would inevitably mean the difference between many projects being viable or not. So the way to see that funding, I'd have thought, is not the amount in isolation, but what it leverages.
And it's then what that leads to. I'll confess, I have an interest here. When I set up my micro SME, we very nearly went under in the first 18 months. The difference was a £25k project that came from O1 funding. We never looked back after that, and have provided about 200 person years of employment to the region since. That project gave us a leg up when we needed it.
The LSE report I mentioned earlier reckoned that by 2006, unemployment in SY was about 0.5% lower than it would have been without O1 funds. That's maybe 4000 SY people in work who wouldn't have been otherwise. Not an order of magnitude thing, but it was aimed at nudging us onto A different trajectory.
If I'd thought there was any prospect whatsoever of a Tory Govt replacing that money with the money we saved from Leaving (sic) I'd be less angry about this. As it is, what I see is the people of SY being duped by people who had a very different idea of what was meant when they said it was just "our" money coming back.
Thanks for the comments on amortization. I'm out of my depth on the technicalities there. What I meant, I think was that it's unfair to compare one year's EU incoming money with an investment that will be spread over 50 years. But as I say, I'm not really knowledgeable enough to flesh that out.
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From The Star:
Politics
Government confirms £570 million to renew Sheffield’s beloved Supertram services beyond 2024
Government has finally confirmed a £570 million package to renew Supertram services in South Yorkshire beyond 2024.
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From The Star:
Politics
Government confirms £570 million to renew Sheffield’s beloved Supertram services beyond 2024
Government has finally confirmed a £570 million package to renew Supertram services in South Yorkshire beyond 2024.
Again with the South Yorkshire , as I remember in the early 90's Clive Betts and his council of swindlers promised that in exchange for our funding we'd see Supertram come to our town and other areas outside Sheffield .
We are still waiting of course .
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If I'd thought there was any prospect whatsoever of a Tory Govt replacing that money with the money we saved from Leaving (sic) I'd be less angry about this.
Billy
I think the part of your response above allied with the relatively limited scale of capital funding the EU could provide (regardless of their commendable wealth distribution policy) is key to my thoughts on this. Again I'm not undermining the benefit of the funding the EU provided to SY (inc your company) just pointing out it's limitations of scale.
Brexit was a long term decision. Having a Tory Government is short term (we won't have one by the end of this year). Having a Government as incompetent as this one is also short term (hopefully!).
There is far more scope within the UK Government capital expenditure budget to gain the significant public spend that poorer areas such as SY really need through democratic pressure and process. And also without the UK overall paying out money in terms of net expenditure to the EU - which for me was not value for money given my personal thoughts on the economic/political benefit/cost of being in the EU - which of course, I accept, differs to yours (and others on here). Hence why we'll never see eye to eye on threads like this.
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Branton.
I fully respect that position.
The concern I have is not your position or my position.
It's the fact that discussions like this were never had back in 2016.
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By the looks of the demonstrations by Farmers in Germany, Holland, and France there will be a few British farmers glad we have left the old boys club.
According to France 24 news this morning an average of 125 French farmers a year over the last few years have committed suicide.
Well done the EU, and no wonder they are having massive demonstrations on their hands, is this the start of the house of cards falling down big time?
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By the looks of the demonstrations by Farmers in Germany, Holland, and France there will be a few British farmers glad we have left the old boys club.
According to France 24 news this morning an average of 125 French farmers a year over the last few years have committed suicide.
Well done the EU, and no wonder they are having massive demonstrations on their hands, is this the start of the house of cards falling down big time?
Go on. I'll bite
Why do you want the EU to collapse? You're like a dog with two dicks every time there is anything that hints at this is.
Who do you think would benefit if the EU wasn't here?
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All the countries that could then elect governments to do the best for the electorate in their own countries, and if they don't vote them out, it is not a new concept Billy.
And don't come on about wars in the past excuse Billy, what we have now is building up to probably the biggest face off of all time and the EU will be in amongst it whether you like it or not if it does kick off, and what they and us will have to be aware of is the enemy within, whether you think so or not, current and present emigration policies will be a problem of faith in European countries including the EU.
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Man with two dicks accidentally opts to have brain removed and says ‘I’ve never felt better’
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I'll ask you again Selby. No word salad answer required.
Who do you think benefits if the democracies of Europe are divided?
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Man with two dicks accidentally opts to have brain removed and says ‘I’ve never felt better’
Billy you really should get specialist advice about having one of those Dicks you’ve got removed preferably the one growing out of your Forhead!
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Man with two dicks accidentally opts to have brain removed and says ‘I’ve never felt better’
Billy you really should get specialist advice about having one of those Dicks you’ve got removed preferably the one growing out of your Forhead!
Thanks for that Sproty. Very nice of you.
Tell me, do you ever read the stuff you post before you post it?
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Typical Syd when your flustered and nobody takes a blind bit of notice of you, insults again, how's the poor old neighbours?
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congrats selby, you just claimed the booby prize
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In response to the original post with title 'Brexit is is best thing that ever happened to Britain' I will point out that geographical term Britain is not the whole of the political nation of the UK.
Brexit is a disaster for Northern Ireland and has wrecked the status quo established after the Good Friday Agreement to the severe detriment of the country. Admittedly the politicians in Northern Ireland don't need much help to make a mess of things, but the delicate political balance has been destroyed, and in addition there are so many things we cannot get any more from the mainland because of reams of paperwork required. This is not just foodstuffs, silly things like ball point pens are becoming a problem (seen as having chemical content) and tragically for me personally we couldn't get a stairlift for my wife's last few weeks purely because the mainland manufacturer would only send to NI when they had enough orders. This delayed things hugely and when it came she was only able to use it for one day before never coming down stairs again.
You will have to forgive my lasting anger at the politicians who caused this with their ignorant blatant lies about Northern Ireland and its border.
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In response to the original post with title 'Brexit is is best thing that ever happened to Britain' I will point out that geographical term Britain is not the whole of the political nation of the UK.
Brexit is a disaster for Northern Ireland and has wrecked the status quo established after the Good Friday Agreement to the severe detriment of the country. Admittedly the politicians in Northern Ireland don't need much help to make a mess of things, but the delicate political balance has been destroyed, and in addition there are so many things we cannot get any more from the mainland because of reams of paperwork required. This is not just foodstuffs, silly things like ball point pens are becoming a problem (seen as having chemical content) and tragically for me personally we couldn't get a stairlift for my wife's last few weeks purely because the mainland manufacturer would only send to NI when they had enough orders. This delayed things hugely and when it came she was only able to use it for one day before never coming down stairs again.
You will have to forgive my lasting anger at the politicians who caused this with their ignorant blatant lies about Northern Ireland and its border.
I am sincerely sorry to hear of the personal anguish Brexit has caused to you Dutch, It’s a pity that the 2 parts don’t unite, unfortunately I don’t see it ever happening, not without it causing major security issues for the Dublin Government.
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The potential road to unification is set out in the Good Friday Agreement, with two border simple majority polls required, one in the North to see if a majority want to join and one in the South to see if a majority want them. This is the same Good Friday Agreement utterly ignored and trashed by the current UK Government.
I like the attached youtube clip from four years ago by an American with a sense of humour and with no axe to grind for either side of the Brexit argument, and a surprisingly clear understanding:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os
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It makes no sense for the island of Ireland not to be a single territorial unit
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It makes no sense for the island of Ireland not to be a single territorial unit
History plays a huge part, and as of today there is still a majority in Northern Ireland wishing to remain a part of the UK. You can query the long term sense of the partition in 1921 and say the British simply kicked all the problems down the road, and that reality is biting us today, but reality it undeniably is.
The UK was happy to fight a war 8000 miles away in 1982 because the majority of people in the Falklands wanted to remain a British Overseas Territory. You would think their interest and commitment to a place that is part of the UK itself would be higher than that.
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The potential road to unification is set out in the Good Friday Agreement, with two border simple majority polls required, one in the North to see if a majority want to join and one in the South to see if a majority want them. This is the same Good Friday Agreement utterly ignored and trashed by the current UK Government.
I like the attached youtube clip from four years ago by an American with a sense of humour and with no axe to grind for either side of the Brexit argument, and a surprisingly clear understanding:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os
One quote in that video is simple enough for a kid to understand but it was never, ever discussed in 2016.
"Promising Maximum Brexit means there's gotta be a wall SOMEWHERE".
It is SO bleeding obvious. And if people do not understand something as simple as that, the whole principle of referendums is out the window.
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It makes no sense for the island of Ireland not to be a single territorial unit
History plays a huge part, and as of today there is still a majority in Northern Ireland wishing to remain a part of the UK. You can query the long term sense of the partition in 1921 and say the British simply kicked all the problems down the road, and that reality is biting us today, but reality it undeniably is.
The UK was happy to fight a war 8000 miles away in 1982 because the majority of people in the Falklands wanted to remain a British Overseas Territory. You would think their interest and commitment to a place that is part of the UK itself would be higher than that.
When you look into the Folk songs circa 1797 th Fenians were both religions and united in their cause, it seems to have started going downhill then
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Mein Gott Valter!
https://www.ft.com/content/5050571e-79f9-4cb7-991c-093702ec8833
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silly boy sprot, have you just worked it out that brexit is from and driven by those captured by the far right?
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Looks like the French farmers are kicking off too
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjj0MXzyPmDAxWqgf0HHVArBzAQwqsBegQIERAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fen%2Ffrance%2Fvideo%2F2024%2F01%2F23%2Fimages-of-farmers-blocking-french-roads-in-protest-of-rising-costs-excessive-regulation_6458285_7.html&usg=AOvVaw0h6TMJBvAocbXQmYHb35gr&opi=89978449
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
Perhaps you should read this and see what you voted to give away and why the French are free to do what they choose to do.
https://iea.org.uk/why-brexit-was-a-mistake-from-a-libertarian-perspective/
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
Perhaps you should read this and see what you voted to give away and why the French are free to do what they choose to do.
https://iea.org.uk/why-brexit-was-a-mistake-from-a-libertarian-perspective/
Oh dear how sad , never mind My heart bleeds for
The libertarians who voted for Brexit all 5 of them!
Definition of a Libertine “ a person, especially a man, who freely indulges in sensual pleasures without regard to moral principles:”
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Not sure it's the right thread but closest we have. The Hungary situation shows how difficult it is to bring together countries across Europe to a consensus. Interesting to see an anti EU party in Germany polling fairly well too.
Not sure how the EU can get itself in a more reformed, stronger position.
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Germany now at the bottom of the economic growth table.
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Not sure it's the right thread but closest we have. The Hungary situation shows how difficult it is to bring together countries across Europe to a consensus. Interesting to see an anti EU party in Germany polling fairly well too.
Not sure how the EU can get itself in a more reformed, stronger position.
Germany are not the only country with growing anti EU sentiment.
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Is this the whole of Germany nr?
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
Perhaps you should read this and see what you voted to give away and why the French are free to do what they choose to do.
https://iea.org.uk/why-brexit-was-a-mistake-from-a-libertarian-perspective/
Oh dear how sad , never mind My heart bleeds for
The libertarians who voted for Brexit all 5 of them!
Definition of a Libertine “ a person, especially a man, who freely indulges in sensual pleasures without regard to moral principles:”
better question/s are what are people doing with all that sovrenty? saving it up for a rainy day, have they used it all up or will they bequeath what's left to their extended family. Can it be traded like bit-coin, come on guys tell me what you have done with yours, it's probably the second most expensive outlay in your life
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The next trenche of Brexit benefits coming in the next few days...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68135059
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Well this is different
https://www.ft.com/content/9dabcd4b-9c64-4124-9f9c-b0c898c84c8f
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/9dabcd4b-9c64-4124-9f9c-b0c898c84c8f?segmentid=dcee0941-6e02-a9de-5643-b340f3ef2e3a
The EU will sabotage Hungary’s economy if Budapest blocks fresh aid to Ukraine at a summit this week, under a confidential plan drawn up by Brussels that marks a significant escalation in the battle between the EU and its most pro-Russian member state.
In a document drawn up by EU officials and seen by the Financial Times, Brussels has outlined a strategy to explicitly target Hungary’s economic weaknesses, imperil its currency and drive a collapse in investor confidence in a bid to hurt “jobs and growth” if Budapest refuses to lift its veto against the aid to Kyiv.
Viktor Orbán, Hungary’s premier, has vowed to block the use of the EU budget to provide €50bn in financial aid to Ukraine at an emergency summit of leaders on Thursday.
If he does not back down, other EU leaders should publicly vow to permanently shut off all EU funding to Budapest with the intention of spooking the markets, precipitating a run on the country’s forint currency and a surge in the cost of its borrowing, Brussels stated in the document.
“This is Europe telling Viktor Orbán ‘enough is enough; it’s time to get in line. You may have a pistol, but we have the bazooka’,” said Mujtaba Rahman, Europe director at Eurasia Group, a consultancy.
The document declares that “in the case of no agreement in the February 1 [summit], other heads of state and government would publicly declare that in the light of the unconstructive behaviour of the Hungarian PM . . . they cannot imagine that” EU funds would be provided to Budapest.
Without that funding, “financial markets and European and international companies might be less interested to invest in Hungary”, the document stated. Such punishment “could quickly trigger a further increase of the cost of funding of the public deficit and a drop in the currency”.
János Bóka, Hungary’s EU minister, told the FT that Budapest was not aware of the financial threat, but that his country “does not give in to pressure”.
“Hungary does not establish a connection between support for Ukraine and access to EU funds, and rejects other parties doing so,” he said. “Hungary has and will continue to participate constructively in the negotiations.”
But in a sign of the rising pressure on Budapest to strike a compromise, Bóka said Budapest sent a new proposal to Brussels on Saturday, specifying it was now open to using the EU budget for the Ukraine package and even issuing common debt to finance it, if other caveats were added that gave Budapest the opportunity to change its mind at a later date.
The document, produced by an official in the Council of the EU, the Brussels body that represents member states, lays out Hungary’s economic vulnerabilities — including its “very high public deficit”, “very high inflation”, weak currency and the EU’s highest level of debt servicing payments as a proportion of gross domestic product.
It lays outs how “jobs and growth . . . depend to a large extent” on overseas finance that is predicated on high levels of EU funding.
A spokesperson for the Council of the EU said they did not comment on leaks.
Brussels has wielded its financial leverage against member states before, such as with Poland and Hungary over rule of law concerns and Greece during the eurozone crisis, but a strategy to explicitly seek to undermine a member state’s economy would mark a major new step for the bloc.
Three EU diplomats told the FT that many countries backed the plan. “The mood has got harsher,” said one. “What kind of union do we have if we allow this kind of behaviour?”
Another said: “The stakes are high. It is blackmail.”
Bóka told the FT that Budapest wanted “to explore the possibility of a more constructive and European solution” and has proposed it could support the €50bn plan if it was given an annual veto on the payments. Other EU countries have already refused this suggestion as they fear Orbán would seek to block it every year and extract further concessions.
But one of the diplomats added there was “no way” Orbán would get a veto over funding.
Bóka said “the political pressure on Hungary is continuous and strong” but that it did not influence his government’s negotiations.
“We had to take a step, and we trust that the other party will be similarly flexible,” he added.
Recommended
InterviewViktor Orbán
US attacks Hungary’s Orbán for ‘fantasy foreign policy’ that helps Putin
While 26 member states have a plan B to send money to Kyiv outside the EU budget, that would require national parliaments’ ratification, causing delays and uncertainty.
Several capitals have considered whether it is feasible to use Article 7 of the Treaty on the European Union, which would allow Brussels to strip Budapest of its voting rights or, one diplomat said, block disbursement of money. But others have rebuffed the notion given that it requires unanimous support and many countries are reluctant to deploy such a serious sanction.
Bóka said it was important that EU unity was “preserved”, adding: “That is why we are willing to make compromises so long as they do not affect our vital interests.”
He added, however, that if the compromise effort failed, Hungary’s original proposal of a separate Ukraine fund outside the EU budget would be Budapest’s preference.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2024. All rights reserved.
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https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-border-controls-coming-into-effect-today-will-force-up-price-of-food-and-flowers-13060123
Yay Brexit!!
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
Perhaps you should read this and see what you voted to give away and why the French are free to do what they choose to do.
https://iea.org.uk/why-brexit-was-a-mistake-from-a-libertarian-perspective/
Oh dear how sad , never mind My heart bleeds for
The libertarians who voted for Brexit all 5 of them!
Definition of a Libertine “ a person, especially a man, who freely indulges in sensual pleasures without regard to moral principles:”
Err .... you wouldn't be getting your Libertarians and Libertines mixed up by any chance?
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Andrea Leadsom jeez ..........
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There were a couple of really interesting articles in the paper on Sunday which indirectly reflected on the Pro's and Con's of the EU.
Firstly, the collective inability/unwillingness of the EU countries (with the exception of the Netherlands) to contribute to the action taken by the UK and US against the Huthie rebels attacking ships, despite the fact that a large percentage of ships using the shipping route were heading for, or owned by, EU nations.
Secondly, how the EU may well become more important than ever should Donald Trump win the election in the US and begin to withdraw traditional US support to Europe and NATO. The collective military and economic trade agreements across the EU will be vital to protecting Europe from attack, primarily from Russia. The UK may well find itself left well and truly on the shelf.
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I think Herbert, that militarily the UK would work alongside the EU as it does with NATO. For a start the EU would want to have alliance with a major nuclear power and not solely rely on France.
The unwillingness of other countries to support against the houthis is super interesting.
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Sunak says the deal to get Stormont government back up and running will be good for both the NI and GB economies. Makes you wonder why they ever messed it up in the first place then doesn't it and why it took them so long to put it right.
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
Perhaps you should read this and see what you voted to give away and why the French are free to do what they choose to do.
https://iea.org.uk/why-brexit-was-a-mistake-from-a-libertarian-perspective/
Oh dear how sad , never mind My heart bleeds for
The libertarians who voted for Brexit all 5 of them!
Definition of a Libertine “ a person, especially a man, who freely indulges in sensual pleasures without regard to moral principles:”
Err .... you wouldn't be getting your Libertarians and Libertines mixed up by any chance?
bump
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Not sure it's the right thread but closest we have. The Hungary situation shows how difficult it is to bring together countries across Europe to a consensus. Interesting to see an anti EU party in Germany polling fairly well too.
Not sure how the EU can get itself in a more reformed, stronger position.
And there's two things they all have in common.
1) They are all on the far right.
2) They are all sympathetic to Putin.
Go figure.
Of course, people are perfectly at liberty (at least while democracy exists) to support whoever they wish. But those who cheer on Orban and AfD and Le Pen should be honest with themselves. They are cheering on Putin.
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It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
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It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
And this is how the wilfully stupid get dragged by the nose in the direction that far right people with an agenda want to take them.
It's not "cheaper imports from non-UK countriesS[/u].
But I wouldn't expect Mike Graham to tell you the truth on that.
It is cheaper imports from ONE non-EU country that the farmers are moaning about.
Guess which country the EU has abolished agricultural tariffs for.
Go on. Have a guess.
Then ask yourself why Kitsons like Le Pen and AfD are stirring up agro over it.
Go on. In your own time.
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It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
''The quiet suicide epidemic plaguing French farmers
In France, one farmer commits suicide every two days. Dairy farmer Michou from the Loire-Atlantique region agreed to talk to us about the quiet epidemic that’s affecting his community''
Issued on: 26/10/2018 - 20:19
https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-suicide-epidemic-plaguing-french-farmers-loire-atlantique
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It was a programme on France 24 actually Billy and it was fruit mainly from North and East Africa that was a big bone of contention Billy, but hey I bow to your all knowing intelligence, also Poland which I didn't mention because of grain from the Ukraine but of course we all know about that or should do.
Over to you I know how much you like the last word and to belittle people get on with it.
I haven't as much spare time on my hands as you Billy by the looks of it I am only retired and find things to do instead of gobbling the BBC all day, and living in a leftie dream world.
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It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
''The quiet suicide epidemic plaguing French farmers
In France, one farmer commits suicide every two days. Dairy farmer Michou from the Loire-Atlantique region agreed to talk to us about the quiet epidemic that’s affecting his community''
Issued on: 26/10/2018 - 20:19
https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-suicide-epidemic-plaguing-french-farmers-loire-atlantique
Well again this is a similar theme to the UK dairy Farmers getting paid peanuts by consortiums for their products!
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Bunch of t**ts, the DUP are.
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1754416350754136077
They campaigned for a hard Brexit for the whole of the UK. They were part of the far right cabal that forced the Govt away from a soft Brexit in 2017-19.
Now their leader is crowing about apparently securing for NI, the position that all of us had before Brexit.
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It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
''The quiet suicide epidemic plaguing French farmers
In France, one farmer commits suicide every two days. Dairy farmer Michou from the Loire-Atlantique region agreed to talk to us about the quiet epidemic that’s affecting his community''
Issued on: 26/10/2018 - 20:19
https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-suicide-epidemic-plaguing-french-farmers-loire-atlantique
Well again this is a similar theme to the UK dairy Farmers getting paid peanuts by consortiums for their products!
''UK farmers vow to mount more blockades over cheap post-Brexit imports
Inspired by French action, British campaigners say they will continue slow tractor protests after Dover roads were blocked''
.......''Sustain the food campaigners, warned in 2022 that UK farmers made far less than 1p profit from food they produce. A loaf of bread was worth 0.09p profit for a cereal farmer while a £2.50 block of cheddar was worth less than a penny for dairy farmers.
Since then trade deals with Australia and New Zealand have come into force. Andrew Gibson said he had tried to buy British lamb in his local supermarket and found none.
“The ethics are just appalling,” he said. “How you get a leg of lamb from New Zealand, the other side of the world, and sell that for £15 or £20 – it’s mind-boggling.
“We’re getting a lot of produce from around the world that would be illegal to grow in this country,” he added. “We produce the best stuff to the highest standard. We just want a level playing field.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/10/uk-farmers-vow-to-mount-more-blockades-over-cheap-post-brexit-imports-and-supermarket-prices
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It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
''The quiet suicide epidemic plaguing French farmers
In France, one farmer commits suicide every two days. Dairy farmer Michou from the Loire-Atlantique region agreed to talk to us about the quiet epidemic that’s affecting his community''
Issued on: 26/10/2018 - 20:19
https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-suicide-epidemic-plaguing-french-farmers-loire-atlantique
Well again this is a similar theme to the UK dairy Farmers getting paid peanuts by consortiums for their products!
''UK farmers vow to mount more blockades over cheap post-Brexit imports
Inspired by French action, British campaigners say they will continue slow tractor protests after Dover roads were blocked''
.......''Sustain the food campaigners, warned in 2022 that UK farmers made far less than 1p profit from food they produce. A loaf of bread was worth 0.09p profit for a cereal farmer while a £2.50 block of cheddar was worth less than a penny for dairy farmers.
Since then trade deals with Australia and New Zealand have come into force. Andrew Gibson said he had tried to buy British lamb in his local supermarket and found none.
“The ethics are just appalling,” he said. “How you get a leg of lamb from New Zealand, the other side of the world, and sell that for £15 or £20 – it’s mind-boggling.
“We’re getting a lot of produce from around the world that would be illegal to grow in this country,” he added. “We produce the best stuff to the highest standard. We just want a level playing field.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/10/uk-farmers-vow-to-mount-more-blockades-over-cheap-post-brexit-imports-and-supermarket-prices
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
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The latest in Northern Ireland - difficulty in getting car batteries because of Brexit paperwork :headbang:
It is a disaster over here
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The latest in Northern Ireland - difficulty in getting car batteries because of Brexit paperwork :headbang:
It is a disaster over here
It's a disaster everywhere Dutch. Sadly, some people who voted for it are too blinkered to admit it.
-
It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
''The quiet suicide epidemic plaguing French farmers
In France, one farmer commits suicide every two days. Dairy farmer Michou from the Loire-Atlantique region agreed to talk to us about the quiet epidemic that’s affecting his community''
Issued on: 26/10/2018 - 20:19
https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-suicide-epidemic-plaguing-french-farmers-loire-atlantique
Well again this is a similar theme to the UK dairy Farmers getting paid peanuts by consortiums for their products!
''UK farmers vow to mount more blockades over cheap post-Brexit imports
Inspired by French action, British campaigners say they will continue slow tractor protests after Dover roads were blocked''
.......''Sustain the food campaigners, warned in 2022 that UK farmers made far less than 1p profit from food they produce. A loaf of bread was worth 0.09p profit for a cereal farmer while a £2.50 block of cheddar was worth less than a penny for dairy farmers.
Since then trade deals with Australia and New Zealand have come into force. Andrew Gibson said he had tried to buy British lamb in his local supermarket and found none.
“The ethics are just appalling,” he said. “How you get a leg of lamb from New Zealand, the other side of the world, and sell that for £15 or £20 – it’s mind-boggling.
“We’re getting a lot of produce from around the world that would be illegal to grow in this country,” he added. “We produce the best stuff to the highest standard. We just want a level playing field.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/10/uk-farmers-vow-to-mount-more-blockades-over-cheap-post-brexit-imports-and-supermarket-prices
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
Why do give me the impression you wear a gimp suit in the evenings?
-
It looks like the Farmers over in EU land are not happy and have held large tractor rallies in France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Poland, and Greece today, that is a lot of not very happy bunnies.
A report on the Radio said that in the last twelve months over one hundred and twenty farmers in France had committed suicide which is not a good look.
The main complaints iare too much paper work, limiting fertiliser use and cheaper imports from non EU countries.
''The quiet suicide epidemic plaguing French farmers
In France, one farmer commits suicide every two days. Dairy farmer Michou from the Loire-Atlantique region agreed to talk to us about the quiet epidemic that’s affecting his community''
Issued on: 26/10/2018 - 20:19
https://www.france24.com/en/20181026-suicide-epidemic-plaguing-french-farmers-loire-atlantique
Well again this is a similar theme to the UK dairy Farmers getting paid peanuts by consortiums for their products!
''UK farmers vow to mount more blockades over cheap post-Brexit imports
Inspired by French action, British campaigners say they will continue slow tractor protests after Dover roads were blocked''
.......''Sustain the food campaigners, warned in 2022 that UK farmers made far less than 1p profit from food they produce. A loaf of bread was worth 0.09p profit for a cereal farmer while a £2.50 block of cheddar was worth less than a penny for dairy farmers.
Since then trade deals with Australia and New Zealand have come into force. Andrew Gibson said he had tried to buy British lamb in his local supermarket and found none.
“The ethics are just appalling,” he said. “How you get a leg of lamb from New Zealand, the other side of the world, and sell that for £15 or £20 – it’s mind-boggling.
“We’re getting a lot of produce from around the world that would be illegal to grow in this country,” he added. “We produce the best stuff to the highest standard. We just want a level playing field.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/10/uk-farmers-vow-to-mount-more-blockades-over-cheap-post-brexit-imports-and-supermarket-prices
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
Why do give me the impression you wear a gimp suit in the evenings?
You need a check up from the neck up!
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If you go back through maybe just a week of your own posts, any time you are stuck for an answer to anyone, out come the schoolyard epithets, on top of that your tales of misguided, if not illegal vigilantism. What does your son think of your armed night time exploits?
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If you go back through maybe just a week of your own posts, any time you are stuck for an answer to anyone, out come the schoolyard epithets, on top of that your tales of misguided, if not illegal vigilantism. What does your son think of your armed night time exploits?
Syd I never go out walking at night it is too dangerous, it’s bad enough in daylight, there is no street lighting and no Pavements in the countryside around me. Most of the cowboy builders think it’s ok to dump their rubble at tea time after a hard days Bodging up somebodies bathroom or kitchen!
Mr kettle calling frying pan re replying to posts
Something YOU never do !answer a question when you frequently paint yourself into a corner Aye Aye Me hearty!
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We've found another benefit!
Brexit has taught this prick a basic rule of economics.
https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1771458661967130805?s=20
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We've found another benefit!
Brexit has taught this prick a basic rule of economics.
https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1771458661967130805?s=20
Well it isn’t making us poorer!
We have the second best economy in Europe after Germany and a great deal of that is that we aren’t constrained by the D*ck Heads in Brussels.
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We've found another benefit!
Brexit has taught this prick a basic rule of economics.
https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1771458661967130805?s=20
Well it isn’t making us poorer!
We have the second best economy in Europe after Germany and a great deal of that is that we aren’t constrained by the D*ck Heads in Brussels.
Depends who you mean by 'us'. The UK is one of the most economically unequal countries in the world (only Italy in Europe is worse).
Brexit has allowed that inequality to get worse. It fact it was DESIGNED to make that inequality worse - to provide a tax haven for global billionaires to launder their money.
But you are on their side. So that's alright.
https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
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BB, you say Germany has a better economy than us , and we aren’t constrained by Europe. So how do the Germans manage to deal with the d.. heads in Brussels?
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BB, you say Germany has a better economy than us , and we aren’t constrained by Europe. So how do the Germans manage to deal with the d.. heads in Brussels?
It’s only has a bigger economy because it’s got a larger population and area, they are in recession at the moment and are struggling due to being constrained by the D*ckheads in Brussels,along with most of the EU!
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We've found another benefit!
Brexit has taught this prick a basic rule of economics.
https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1771458661967130805?s=20
Well it isn’t making us poorer!
We have the second best economy in Europe after Germany and a great deal of that is that we aren’t constrained by the D*ck Heads in Brussels.
Depends who you mean by 'us'. The UK is one of the most economically unequal countries in the world (only Italy in Europe is worse).
Brexit has allowed that inequality to get worse. It fact it was DESIGNED to make that inequality worse - to provide a tax haven for global billionaires to launder their money.
But you are on their side. So that's alright.
https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk
Why am I on their side Wilts, because I support Brexit! Does that make me a bad person? Am I keeping others in Poverty?
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The latest in Northern Ireland - difficulty in getting car batteries because of Brexit paperwork :headbang:
It is a disaster over here
It's a disaster everywhere Dutch. Sadly, some people who voted for it are too blinkered to admit it.
Myself and others who voted for it admitted it was an error judgement and if we had to vote again we'd vote remain.
Brexit was all for the wrong reasons.
In regards to laws, financial corrupction and the Freeports Special Economic Zones etc
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We've found another benefit!
Brexit has taught this prick a basic rule of economics.
https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1771458661967130805?s=20
Well it isn’t making us poorer!
We have the second best economy in Europe after Germany and a great deal of that is that we aren’t constrained by the D*ck Heads in Brussels.
We will be poorer in the long term, lower paid jobs.
Has restricted trade companies are moving their operations abroad.
It was all a power grab and for institutions to move their money to tax havens.
Privatisation of councils and the NHS are next and the SEZ's is the completion of corporate britain.
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The latest in Northern Ireland - difficulty in getting car batteries because of Brexit paperwork :headbang:
It is a disaster over here
It's a disaster everywhere Dutch. Sadly, some people who voted for it are too blinkered to admit it.
Myself and others who voted for it admitted it was an error judgement and if we had to vote again we'd vote remain.
Brexit was all for the wrong reasons.
In regards to laws, financial corrupction and the Freeports Special Economic Zones etc
Out of interest and no other reason what made you vote for it?
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The latest in Northern Ireland - difficulty in getting car batteries because of Brexit paperwork :headbang:
It is a disaster over here
It's a disaster everywhere Dutch. Sadly, some people who voted for it are too blinkered to admit it.
Myself and others who voted for it admitted it was an error judgement and if we had to vote again we'd vote remain.
Brexit was all for the wrong reasons.
In regards to laws, financial corrupction and the Freeports Special Economic Zones etc
Out of interest and no other reason what made you vote for it?
what's done is done the main concern we should have is concerning this..
https://twitter.com/EuropeanPowell/status/1772352416773452025?s=19
Lies and neoliberal subterfuge. Just so people know former FM Mark Drakeford signed off on 2 Welsh public/privately owned Freeports in Ynys Mon/Anglesey, and Milford Haven/Pot Talbot with Sunak, also present was Shanker Singham, the brains behind Brexit. Off shore wind farms were already happening anyway, and do not need Freeport status. The EU has similar offshore wind farms, all EU ports are publicly owned. Jan 2024 Govt report on REUL stated EU ports are publicly owned and unsuitable for the U.K. economy, +600 EU/UK laws were revoked on 31/12/2023, 3 main areas affected were employment rights, food safety standards, and environmental protection, 1000s more laws will be for the chop by 2026. Labour are part of a cross-party alliance on the Freeports consortia in England Scotland, and Wales. Drakeford knew of the dangers deregulated SEZs outside of the EU will bring, but went ahead and sold out Welsh communities under pressure from Westminster threatening councils with withdrawing funds if they didn’t back the Tory initiative of 86 SEZs. The MSM are now printing articles that Labour back ‘ports’ and Investment zones, the wording is crucial, you are being lied to, this is how Brexit is being forced to work, the UK is being carved up into tax havens, small states within states, these zones will fall prey to corporate governance, councils and all public services will be absorbed, then privatized.
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
So true Sproty. That would never,ever happen in Blighty or our dear old capital would it?
It seems you have a sixth sense with politics,
or is that sick?
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As you will have sen on the BBC French Farmers have used thousands of Tractors to Gridlock Paris etc, we can count ourselves fortunate to be out of the clutches of the Fat Cat bureaucrats in Brussels causing disquiet and misery throughout the farming community in France,Germany Netherlands and every where else in the EEC
So true Sproty. That would never,ever happen in Blighty or our dear old capital would it?
It seems you have a sixth sense with politics,
or is that sick?
Have I missed something? Has Parliament been blocked by hundreds of Tractors and tyre fires etc?
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Not surprisingly it would appear you have missed something. Never happened here tho,now we are free from those evil fat cats in Brussels.
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Brexit just keeps on giving and giving and ...........
''British farmers want basic income to cope with post-Brexit struggles
Schemes to replace EU subsidies will not plug gap left by loss of EU subsidies for most farmers''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/04/british-farmers-want-basic-income-to-cope-with-post-brexit-struggles
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Syd, The lads I go out with on a weekend two or three farmers by the way , are doing very well thank you very much, so no need to worry your little head about them, the French wine growers however are struggling as wine drinking has lost it's gloss and sales are way down world wide.
Chateaux Tetley seems to be doing OK though.
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Do you ever think of yourself as a zero sum selby?
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Do you ever think of yourself as a zero sum selby?
Do you ever think what the majority of this forums members think about youy constant trolling clap trap posts Sydders?
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Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
Australian Black Angus Beef is lovely too! Though I was a bit wary at first as I thought it might send me crackers like Syd!
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Our North is clearly your South Syd, get some Co Enzyme Q10 tabs taken
Our North is clearly your South Syd, get some Co Enzyme Q10 tabs taken
Our North is clearly your South Syd, get some Co Enzyme Q10 tabs taken
Our North is clearly your South Syd, get some Co Enzyme Q10 tabs taken
Our North is clearly your South Syd, get some Co Enzyme Q10 tabs taken
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sproty, do you think that if personal comments were kept to what concerns oneself rather than than trying to emulate hilda ogden, off topic would be a more constructive board?
''As you give, so you receive''
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sproty, do you think that if personal comments were kept to what concerns oneself rather than than trying to emulate hilda ogden, off topic would be a more constructive board?
''As you give, so you receive''
Ah I see you have managed to ‘wriggle’ out of your straight Jacket again, daft lad!
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Diazepam or therapy. Which one would be best for him, lads?
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Diazepam or therapy. Which one would be best for him, lads?
Giving up posting and experiencing life outside the pages of the Guardian may help
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Well I have left it two days and am not surprised there has been no mention of the fact The UK has moved up over Holland and France to the fourth largest exporter in the world behind the USA, China and Germany.
Hello anybody there?
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It would help if you explained whether you are talking about total exports related to gdp, or a particular export selby. News is garnered from many different sites and you don't often supply a link so it's difficult to know what you're talking about.
Also exports cannot be viewed without looking at imports and therefore examining the balance of trade for each country. You did do that?
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Syd , you should have been a worm, they have no backbone.
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Syd , you should have been a worm, they have no backbone.
No a Snake,slithery Syd!
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Syd , you should have been a worm, they have no backbone.
You've been caught out again not knowing what you're talking about aye so the insults flow
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284745/balance-of-trade-uk/
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/current-account-balance/country-comparison/
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mummy mummy can I have my pocket money?
of course dear here's your 2 quid, but remember you borrowed 3 quid last week for that book on basic accountancy
but I'm still rich ..........
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Syd , you should have been a worm, they have no backbone.
You've been caught out again not knowing what you're talking about aye so the insults flow
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284745/balance-of-trade-uk/
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/current-account-balance/country-comparison/
In your case being called a worm is a compliment
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Syd, did I mention anything else but we are now the fourth biggest exporter in the world up from seventh.
As Usual you go off track and have an AH but moment to direct the point elsewhere. You and your kind were wrong the UK can flourish outside the EU despite having to carry the Woke lot and the people like yourself that undermines this great country, for what reason other than wanting an easy life and jealousy of others willing to do their best I have no idea.
And in answer to your playing the stupid childish nursery rime games trying to make people look inferior to your superior mind I am quite happy sitting back in the knowledge in spite of my poor upbringing and education according to you I could probably buy and sell you a couple of times over if I wanted to something you have nothing to worry about by the way as I don't deal in rancid meat.
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And in answer to your playing the stupid childish nursery rime games trying to make people look inferior to your superior mind I am quite happy sitting back in the knowledge in spite of my poor upbringing and education according to you I could probably buy and sell you a couple of times over if I wanted to something you have nothing to worry about by the way as I don't deal in rancid meat.
Help me out please.
Even Google translate told me it was impossible.
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Syd, did I mention anything else but we are now the fourth biggest exporter in the world up from seventh.
As Usual you go off track and have an AH but moment to direct the point elsewhere. You and your kind were wrong the UK can flourish outside the EU despite having to carry the Woke lot and the people like yourself that undermines this great country, for what reason other than wanting an easy life and jealousy of others willing to do their best I have no idea.
And in answer to your playing the stupid childish nursery rime games trying to make people look inferior to your superior mind I am quite happy sitting back in the knowledge in spite of my poor upbringing and education according to you I could probably buy and sell you a couple of times over if I wanted to something you have nothing to worry about by the way as I don't deal in rancid meat.
Nobody has done a better job undermining the country than the governments over the past 14 years have selby. You should be able to see from the links I posted that the potential has been there is just unfortunate for most that ideology got in the way.
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Selby:
''And in answer to your playing the stupid childish nursery rime games trying to make people look inferior to your superior mind I am quite happy sitting back in the knowledge in spite of my poor upbringing and education according to you I could probably buy and sell you a couple of times over if I wanted to something you have nothing to worry about by the way as I don't deal in rancid meat''
I'm happy that you have 'lot's' of money selby I hope it makes you happy is all.
You need to ask your chums in the shadow mods clique about banter, the rules are very flexible apparently. I'm genuinely sorry to read you have worms.
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Syd you have just made a public mistake there admitting you run to the Moderators every time someone takes you to task, How many have you done to be proud of Hound, and many others I guess who have responded to your constant taunts and insults'
Well now everyone can see you for the snide you are, well done buddy for coming out, not being a man in the best sense of the word and having some character.
Your not worth bothering with buddy, like the terrorist in your Mall, your only good when stabbing people in the back and never front up.
Have a good day hopefully on your own as nobody can trust you .not to go crying to teacher.
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Stop crying selby you are the club fisherman are you not?
Read from #132 and tell me who is trying to wind who up?
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You know what Selby times like this ypu come over as the Brummie Harry Enfield character
'
"Oim considerrrably richer than yoh"
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You know what Selby times like this ypu come over as the Brummie Harry Enfield character
'
"Oim considerrrably richer than yoh"
Confidence is silent.
Insecurities are loud.
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.
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I see that Norway is upgrading its Navy and looking to buy the best Frigate in the world https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/naval-warfare/norways-aim-to-purchase-new-frigates-may-impact-royal-navys-own-fleet-production/
100% British Military precision engineering!
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Free speech and democracy alive a kicking in Brussels today. The local mayor and police trying to shut down a National Conservatism conference where many high profile right wing European Politicians were due to speak. Including members of certain royal families.
The local authorities citing “public order” issues.
I’ll get my popcorn and await the usual ……..
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Syd you have just made a public mistake there admitting you run to the Moderators every time someone takes you to task, How many have you done to be proud of Hound, and many others I guess who have responded to your constant taunts and insults'
Well now everyone can see you for the snide you are, well done buddy for coming out, not being a man in the best sense of the word and having some character.
Your not worth bothering with buddy, like the terrorist in your Mall, your only good when stabbing people in the back and never front up.
Have a good day hopefully on your own as nobody can trust you .not to go crying to teacher.
Is this why my simple post asking for Syd to answer my question on the Garrick Club thread said it had been edited by the admin?
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Free speech and democracy alive a kicking in Brussels today. The local mayor and police trying to shut down a National Conservatism conference where many high profile right wing European Politicians were due to speak. Including members of certain royal families.
The local authorities citing “public order” issues.
I’ll get my popcorn and await the usual ……..
NR,are you familiar with some of the groups that come under this vague umbrella called National Conservatism?
I'll answer that for you,but racists from all over Europe and further afield.
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Syd you have just made a public mistake there admitting you run to the Moderators every time someone takes you to task, How many have you done to be proud of Hound, and many others I guess who have responded to your constant taunts and insults'
Well now everyone can see you for the snide you are, well done buddy for coming out, not being a man in the best sense of the word and having some character.
Your not worth bothering with buddy, like the terrorist in your Mall, your only good when stabbing people in the back and never front up.
Have a good day hopefully on your own as nobody can trust you .not to go crying to teacher.
Is this why my simple post asking for Syd to answer my question on the Garrick Club thread said it had been edited by the admin?
There you go taking notice of selby (note it's the person winding selby up that's the problem)
By the way you are perfectly free to hold incel or any other all male meetings at home nc, but I'm struggling to think what scintillating offerings you would have that would cause women to lay siege to it.
You can see by the numbers of women clamouring for membership of vsc how much they want to be part of a mostly male organisation. You are flattering yourself of you think most women are craving to see what men get up to in their testosterone cells they just want the right is all, something you fail to understand deliberately or otherwise.
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Just made my pregnant wife breakfast before she goes to work, I’m such a massive incel.
Morning off so might scroll through Joey Barton’s finest tweets too. (Sarcasm)
Just because I don’t think something should be banned doesn’t mean that’s what I’d do myself. Again you can’t argue a principle, not very smart.
So you did report me to the mods? Strange behaviour. Back on ignore you go.
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I can't help how you interpret another's comment nor how you interpret mine. I guess someone will be along soon to 'help'
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Syd you have just made a public mistake there admitting you run to the Moderators every time someone takes you to task, How many have you done to be proud of Hound, and many others I guess who have responded to your constant taunts and insults'
Well now everyone can see you for the snide you are, well done buddy for coming out, not being a man in the best sense of the word and having some character.
Your not worth bothering with buddy, like the terrorist in your Mall, your only good when stabbing people in the back and never front up.
Have a good day hopefully on your own as nobody can trust you .not to go crying to teacher.
Is this why my simple post asking for Syd to answer my question on the Garrick Club thread said it had been edited by the admin?
There you go taking notice of selby (note it's the person winding selby up that's the problem)
By the way you are perfectly free to hold incel or any other all male meetings at home nc, but I'm struggling to think what scintillating offerings you would have that would cause women to lay siege to it.
You can see by the numbers of women clamouring for membership of vsc how much they want to be part of a mostly male organisation. You are flattering yourself of you think most women are craving to see what men get up to in their testosterone cells they just want the right is all, something you fail to understand deliberately or otherwise.
The VSC forum has several female contributors and as far as I know hasn’t tried ed to exclude them.
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Here we go. Found a Brexit benefit!
https://x.com/MailOnline/status/1791255268593987736
Them f**kers in the EU, eh? Stopping countries having pavement cafes. I bet they'd kill to have that in Fra...oh! Od on a minute.
Seriously, how many sleeps till these useless Kitsons f**k off?
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Here we go. Found a Brexit benefit!
https://x.com/MailOnline/status/1791255268593987736
Them f**kers in the EU, eh? Stopping countries having pavement cafes. I bet they'd kill to have that in Fra...oh! Od on a minute.
Seriously, how many sleeps till these useless Kitsons f**k off?
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Wire has now got a population of 5.5 Million 20%of whom were not born in Eire. Not bad going for a country that’s main export for the past 2 hundred years has been people! They must have all been sat around a campfire in Calais and googled richest country in EU before they paddled over!
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Well the remainers are having to eat some very Humble Pie! You remember the ‘Spin’ EU Brexit would cause year long recession! -Treasury, then they spun, that we would also lose 500,00o Jobs- Treasury!Then the Last resort of Cretins the Guardian stated we would loose ,100,000 Financial services jobs, then a turn around The Telegraph Brexit hasn’t crushed the City …It’s thriving! The Brussels Signal, Britain is easily out performing the Eurozone,
Yes Eurozone annual growth 0.3% Uk Annual Growth 0.6% .better still France and Germany performed even worse with 0.2% growth!
Britain is now the 4th largest exporter in the World, overtaking France Netherlands and Japan!
Meanwhile Eire becomes a victim of its rogue fiscal Policy,and fiddled business rates ,the allegedly’Wealthiest’ country in Europe,(but only on paper!) has become a magnet for Assylum seekers! And the natives aren’t happy because the reality is that it isn’t the land of milk and honey and living standards are 15% lower than in the UK.
They also have a 315 mile long open border between Northern Ireland they can’t patrol, they are totally reliant on the UK RAF for defence of their vulnerable Air Space.
They are stuck with a massively increased population which is bleeding their, Health, housing and social services dry, a massive increase in public unrest and disorder, something the Guarda had no experience of prior to 6 months ago!
All their chickens have come home to roost!
LET THAT BE A SALUTORY LESSON TO YOU REMAINERS!
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
That or he will post a link to a totally unrelated story from the Guardian to deflect from the discussion.
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
That or he will post a link to a totally unrelated story from the Guardian to deflect from the discussion.
I’m a bit worried about whether Syd is ok.
He missed posting a link to the Guardian story about Labour rowing back on their stance on workers rights.
This was it:
Sharon Graham, the general secretary of the Unite union, has accused Labour of partly rowing back on its plans to bolster workers’ rights in order to “curry favour with big business”, while the party said there had been no watering down of its policies.
Leaked documents, first obtained by the Financial Times, show the party changed the wording of its plans to strengthen workers’ rights at its national policy forum in July in an apparent attempt to head off Tory criticisms of its approach to business
However, Graham said the leaked text of the policy on workers’ rights showed her union had been right not to back it.
She said: “What is evident is that there has been a clear rowing back on the new deal for working people document.
“The changes made at the national policy forum (NPF) materially watered down workers’ rights and so could not be supported by Unite. Today, we now know the actual text of the NPF document … Unite was, and is, absolutely justified in taking this position.
“Labour needs to make the right choices for workers now, not water them down to curry favour with big business.”
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
That or he will post a link to a totally unrelated story from the Guardian to deflect from the discussion.
I’m a bit worried about whether Syd is ok.
He missed posting a link to the Guardian story about Labour rowing back on their stance on workers rights.
This was it:
Sharon Graham, the general secretary of the Unite union, has accused Labour of partly rowing back on its plans to bolster workers’ rights in order to “curry favour with big business”, while the party said there had been no watering down of its policies.
Leaked documents, first obtained by the Financial Times, show the party changed the wording of its plans to strengthen workers’ rights at its national policy forum in July in an apparent attempt to head off Tory criticisms of its approach to business
However, Graham said the leaked text of the policy on workers’ rights showed her union had been right not to back it.
She said: “What is evident is that there has been a clear rowing back on the new deal for working people document.
“The changes made at the national policy forum (NPF) materially watered down workers’ rights and so could not be supported by Unite. Today, we now know the actual text of the NPF document … Unite was, and is, absolutely justified in taking this position.
“Labour needs to make the right choices for workers now, not water them down to curry favour with big business.”
He wouldn’t cherry pick to suit an agenda………. Would he?
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Christ, where to start?
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Christ, where to start?
Usually by accusing someone of being facist or racist mate
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Christ, where to start?
You could start by actually finding out what's going off in Ireland Billy although you won't find anything on the legacy media outfits .
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0.6% growth
Like this is a massive achievement. It's near stagnant, like the last 14 years has been stagnant.
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Christ, where to start?
Just vent yer spleen on the helpless year 9’s you will be trying to Brainwash tomorrow?
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Christ, where to start?
Just vent yer spleen on the helpless year 9’s you will be trying to Brainwash tomorrow?
What the absolute f**k are you blathering on about?
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Christ, where to start?
With these daft buggers, you can't! If it isn't in the Mail they won't believe it
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13428089/Pavement-dining-high-street-Business-secretary-Kemi-Badenoch-Brexit-freedoms.html#:~:text=77%20shares-,Pavement%20dining%20to%20become%20a%20'permanent%20feature%20of%20the%20high,the%20most%20of%20'Brexit%20freedoms'
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
If you want to believe sproty go right ahead, if turning your back on the wealthiest trading bloc in the world makes any sense at all to you I'd like to hear your explanation selby
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
If you want to believe sproty go right ahead, if turning your back on the wealthiest trading bloc in the world makes any sense at all to you I'd like to hear your explanation selby
Stabbing your new homeland in the back eh? What a surprise!
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
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I voted leave and I have to say now most of the promises haven't been fulfilled. The warnings are mostly coming to pass.
The one positive is the UK has regained some political independence but it has come at a great cost.
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I voted leave and I have to say now most of the promises haven't been fulfilled. The warnings are mostly coming to pass.
The one positive is the UK has regained some political independence but it has come at a great cost.
Strange thing is, I voted remain, but on this forum, as a result, I have been called racist, selfish, thick, inconsiderate, fascist and more because I believe(d) in democracy, and accepted the result of a democratic vote.
How did YOU get away with it?
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Stand by for Syd and his "source" comment
If you want to believe sproty go right ahead, if turning your back on the wealthiest trading bloc in the world makes any sense at all to you I'd like to hear your explanation selby
Stabbing your new homeland in the back eh? What a surprise!
Attacking the messenger is no surprise spotty, go and talk to those in the import-export trade if they are still in business, and add some real facts to your blither.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/20/britain-brexit-border-checks-eu-cost-uk-firms-470m-a-year-says-watchdog
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What was it Jim Ratcliffe quite apologetically said recently "Brexit sort of unfortunately didn't umm.. It didn't turn out as people anticipated"
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What was it Jim Ratcliffe quite apologetically said recently "Brexit sort of unfortunately didn't umm.. It didn't turn out as people anticipated"
Mega Tax dodger and you quoting him as your hero, very sad!
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
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And despite all the things that we do wrong according to some on here we have climbed to the fourth from seventh place biggest exporter of goods in the world in the last twelve months, and we are expected to overtake Germany shortly.
Now that is what I call a Brexit win, obviously the BBC and the Guardian didn't tell the unwashed. The armament industry is doing exceptionally well which I am sure will please the lefties as plane loads leave nightly, and the banking industry has more or less left Paris and other European financial centres bringing their offices back to London, in fact my mate who works for Standard Chartered has returned to this country from Amsterdam and is working from home in a lovely converted farm house just outside Oldham with fantastic views over the countryside, said Amsterdam was getting well you know Ghettoish and not a place to bring up young children.
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
-
What was it Jim Ratcliffe quite apologetically said recently "Brexit sort of unfortunately didn't umm.. It didn't turn out as people anticipated"
Mega Tax dodger and you quoting him as your hero, very sad!
Very sad to incorrectly read things into a post on a 2nd Div football forum
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And despite all the things that we do wrong according to some on here we have climbed to the fourth from seventh place biggest exporter of goods in the world in the last twelve months, and we are expected to overtake Germany shortly.
Now that is what I call a Brexit win, obviously the BBC and the Guardian didn't tell the unwashed. The armament industry is doing exceptionally well which I am sure will please the lefties as plane loads leave nightly, and the banking industry has more or less left Paris and other European financial centres bringing their offices back to London, in fact my mate who works for Standard Chartered has returned to this country from Amsterdam and is working from home in a lovely converted farm house just outside Oldham with fantastic views over the countryside, said Amsterdam was getting well you know Ghettoish and not a place to bring up young children.
Got any links to those claims Selby? Because the independent appears to suggest we're in 28th place for world trade
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/voices-now-even-brexiteers-are-blaming-themselves-for-britain-s-economic-woes/ar-BB1mzKRx?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=4ab0f0530feb4be98a3df0dfe4e280bc&ei=17
As for financial institutes bring back services to London
https://www.ft.com/content/515654f1-c3a6-496f-bdf0-b4e5cb312a74
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
-
It is a report by one of your favourite non bodies Kato The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development reports they overtook Japan, The Netherlands and France.
New you would like it, I suppose now you will toddle off and diligently look for reports that oppose their findings.
-
And despite all the things that we do wrong according to some on here we have climbed to the fourth from seventh place biggest exporter of goods in the world in the last twelve months, and we are expected to overtake Germany shortly.
Now that is what I call a Brexit win, obviously the BBC and the Guardian didn't tell the unwashed. The armament industry is doing exceptionally well which I am sure will please the lefties as plane loads leave nightly, and the banking industry has more or less left Paris and other European financial centres bringing their offices back to London, in fact my mate who works for Standard Chartered has returned to this country from Amsterdam and is working from home in a lovely converted farm house just outside Oldham with fantastic views over the countryside, said Amsterdam was getting well you know Ghettoish and not a place to bring up young children.
Speaking of children it was only the other week you were crying like a baby claiming you didn't understand world trade or something or other because I pointed out that there are two sides to trade, exports and imports and it's the difference between the two which is the important bit. And yet here you are again posting the same gibber again.
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It is a report by one of your favourite non bodies Kato The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development reports they overtook Japan, The Netherlands and France.
New you would like it, I suppose now you will toddle off and diligently look for reports that oppose their findings.
You made the claims Selby, it's up to you to post links to support them. I already posted 2 links to show you were wrong! Oh, and it's knew not new!
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If I don't get my own way, I'm going to thkweem and thkweem and thkweem.
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If I don't get my own way, I'm going to thkweem and thkweem and thkweem.
The same a 'liking' anything anti-labour I guess, Steve
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
Yeh because you'd be all fair and playing the Corinthian card wouldn't you if Remain had won .
Away with your condescending .
-
If remain had won the country would be in a much better financial position than it is atm, although the tories have form and could have still f**ked it up, and then your wish which appears to be to have them re-elected would be more of a chance.
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If remain had won the country would be in a much better financial position than it is atm, although the tories have form and could have still f**ked it up, and then your wish which appears to be to have them re-elected would be more of a chance.
I object to that remark, how dare you a runaway come on here pulling the Country you deserted down.. traitor!
-
Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
I’m not sure why 16-18 years old kids voting in a Scottish referendum is relevant to the whole of the UK (including Scotland) voting on Brexit.
FWIIW, I said myself at the time that the Brexit decision was too monumental for the public to decide the outcome, based on them generally not knowing what they were truly voting for.
The argument most people gave to me when we spoke about it was to stop illegal immigration.
However, the vote eventually went ahead and the majority won.
That to me is democratic.
On the subject of campaigns being based on all sides being truthful for democracy to be upheld I guess we should cancel the up and coming GE.
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If remain had won the country would be in a much better financial position than it is atm, although the tories have form and could have still f**ked it up, and then your wish which appears to be to have them re-elected would be more of a chance.
Your the Party who welcomes Tory MP's Syd including one of Moggs lot .
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If remain had won the country would be in a much better financial position than it is atm, although the tories have form and could have still f**ked it up, and then your wish which appears to be to have them re-elected would be more of a chance.
I object to that remark, how dare you a runaway come on here pulling the Country you deserted down.. traitor!
All those childish epithets you hand out to anyone and everyone that disagrees with you actually fit yourself perfectly sprot, I just hold up the mirror.
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If remain had won the country would be in a much better financial position than it is atm, although the tories have form and could have still f**ked it up, and then your wish which appears to be to have them re-elected would be more of a chance.
Your the Party who welcomes Tory MP's Syd including one of Moggs lot .
You need to get up from behind the pooter and get involved, you don't appear to know how the real world works tyke.
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I voted against leaving because I had no trust in our politicians even then to do the right thing, right from the start it was obvious we had Quislings in the population and at the top of the political parties on both sides not bothered about the public vote one way or the other and thought they, the elite, were the only ones intelligent enough to make a decision.
They alienated lots of voters with that attitude and got their just deserts.
What I have enjoyed is their moaning for the last eight years like a little sharp prick up the arse every day of their lives, absolutely hilarious and more to come.
It's a pleasure to come on here at times, I would really miss Syd and co as I feel their hurt and disgust at us mere mortals.
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
Yeh because you'd be all fair and playing the Corinthian card wouldn't you if Remain had won .
Away with your condescending .
Your post reminds me of a quotation of many years back....
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there's absolutely no point".
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That goes for selby also.
-
Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
I’m not sure why 16-18 years old kids voting in a Scottish referendum is relevant to the whole of the UK (including Scotland) voting on Brexit.
FWIIW, I said myself at the time that the Brexit decision was too monumental for the public to decide the outcome, based on them generally not knowing what they were truly voting for.
The argument most people gave to me when we spoke about it was to stop illegal immigration.
However, the vote eventually went ahead and the majority won.
That to me is democratic.
On the subject of campaigns being based on all sides being truthful for democracy to be upheld I guess we should cancel the up and coming GE.
Surely, in a democratic society the rules should apply equally to all referendums, no?
And democracy is government for the people, by the people, in the interests of the people. Do you think what has been delivered by Brexit is in the interests of the people? As for cancelling the next GE due to lies, (potentially), being told then no as we have the democratic right and ability to vote out any lying incumbent at a subsequent GE. Pity we don't have a similar option with Brexit.
I genuinely hope that the next government, whichever it is, is more truthful, open and honest than the current incumbents. Time will tell.
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What about those Labour supporters who actually WANT Starmer to lie once he is elected, by abandoning the proposed policies that won him the election for a more Left-wing strategy?
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What about complete whataboutery?
What about PM who lied to the public and monarch he was supposed to be serving?
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So, it's all right to be full of self-righteous, morally superior condemnation of a lying former Tory PM, but quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power!
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
I’m not sure why 16-18 years old kids voting in a Scottish referendum is relevant to the whole of the UK (including Scotland) voting on Brexit.
FWIIW, I said myself at the time that the Brexit decision was too monumental for the public to decide the outcome, based on them generally not knowing what they were truly voting for.
The argument most people gave to me when we spoke about it was to stop illegal immigration.
However, the vote eventually went ahead and the majority won.
That to me is democratic.
On the subject of campaigns being based on all sides being truthful for democracy to be upheld I guess we should cancel the up and coming GE.
Surely, in a democratic society the rules should apply equally to all referendums, no?
And democracy is government for the people, by the people, in the interests of the people. Do you think what has been delivered by Brexit is in the interests of the people? As for cancelling the next GE due to lies, (potentially), being told then no as we have the democratic right and ability to vote out any lying incumbent at a subsequent GE. Pity we don't have a similar option with Brexit.
I genuinely hope that the next government, whichever it is, is more truthful, open and honest than the current incumbents. Time will tell.
I love your Tim Vine jokes, NNK, but that last paragraph is as funny as any of them.
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So, it's all right to be full of self-righteous, morally superior condemnation of a lying former Tory PM, but quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power!
Thank FFT.
You've finally agreed Boris lied.
Now to your point,if there is one.
Manifestos are what parties want to achieve if they get into power.
Never once in history has a government fulfilled all its manifesto. Is that lying?
If you answered yes,which I'm sure you did,shall we talk about 40 new hospitals,stop the boats,the NHS,education,levelling up,Brexit done, etc.
You've got to admit again there are some real lying basterds in Britain.
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Nothing to say about the Guardian link with regards to Unite then NNK.
You mean the bit about partly rowing back hound? Not much to say until full details are put forward. Meanwhile, have you got a single tangible benefit of Brexit?
No, but then again, as I keep saying, I voted remain.
There might be some benefits though but I don’t spend all day looking for them.
As much as I was disappointed we voted to leave the EU I have accepted the outcome and unlike some, I don’t whine about it.
We have no choice (unless we re-vote) other than to accept and make the best of where we are.
It's one thing to accept a democratic vote, (it wasn't, but lets ignore that), something else entirely to accept the promises without questioning where they are!
Why wasn't the Brexit vote a democratic one?
I haven’t accepted the promises without questioning what they are.
I have accepted the outcome of the vote.
Several reason hound. Firstly, 16 - 18 year olds, (an age group highly affected by the outcome), were barred from voting; yet the same age group were previously allowed, quite rightly, to vote on Scottish Independence in 2014, (again an age group highly affected by the outcome). Secondly, none British EU citizens resident in the UK were also barred from voting, (another group who would be affected by the outcome).
Then, of course, the referendum was advisory only. For it to be acted upon one of two things should have happened; either a second referendum detailing the full terms and implications of our leaving, (as these were not included in the first, so no one knew what they were voting for or what they would get), or for the Government to have debated the matter in Parliament and then have taken us out of the EU, fully and totally, without any form of negotiation or agreed to remain a member per the status quo - as they were the only options on the voting paper. What actually happened was totally undemocratic.
But for democracy to function in such referendums it requires truthful campaigns to be run and both sides lied, one to a greater extent than the other but they both lied. For people to decide which way to cast their vote based on lies and/or exaggeration is most certainly NOT democratic.
Then of course there's outside interference. Ever wondered why the Government refuses to publish the 'Russia' papers?
I’m not sure why 16-18 years old kids voting in a Scottish referendum is relevant to the whole of the UK (including Scotland) voting on Brexit.
FWIIW, I said myself at the time that the Brexit decision was too monumental for the public to decide the outcome, based on them generally not knowing what they were truly voting for.
The argument most people gave to me when we spoke about it was to stop illegal immigration.
However, the vote eventually went ahead and the majority won.
That to me is democratic.
On the subject of campaigns being based on all sides being truthful for democracy to be upheld I guess we should cancel the up and coming GE.
Surely, in a democratic society the rules should apply equally to all referendums, no?
And democracy is government for the people, by the people, in the interests of the people. Do you think what has been delivered by Brexit is in the interests of the people? As for cancelling the next GE due to lies, (potentially), being told then no as we have the democratic right and ability to vote out any lying incumbent at a subsequent GE. Pity we don't have a similar option with Brexit.
I genuinely hope that the next government, whichever it is, is more truthful, open and honest than the current incumbents. Time will tell.
The Scots have a few laws that don’t apply to the rest of the UK so if you want everything to be the same in all of the UK nations perhaps that would be a good start and then I would agree with you.
There is no doubting that the Tory’s have lied over the term of government but I have seen it written on this forum that it is acceptable for Starmer to lie to enable him to win the GE and then change his mind once in government.
Very much double standards and I didn’t see any condemnation of that by any of his supporters on here.
Do you have an opinion on whether it is acceptable?
With regards to “pity we didn’t have the same option with Brexit”, well we did but sadly not enough people voted remain.
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Why should a possible incoming labour be dragged right down to what the past 5 governments have done, or more precisely not done bb?
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Well to start with Syd, the way The Tories are slinging billions about they may not have the money to do anything, it seems to me they are setting them up for a few years Austerity.
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So, it's all right to be full of self-righteous, morally superior condemnation of a lying former Tory PM, but quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power!
Thank FFT.
You've finally agreed Boris lied.
Now to your point,if there is one.
Manifestos are what parties want to achieve if they get into power.
Never once in history has a government fulfilled all its manifesto. Is that lying?
If you answered yes,which I'm sure you did,shall we talk about 40 new hospitals,stop the boats,the NHS,education,levelling up,Brexit done, etc.
You've got to admit again there are some real lying basterds in Britain.
So, it's quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power?
Yes or No?
Debating with you is impossible,a bit like talking to a plank of wood.
In fact,make that a forest as it's so thick and dense.
I corrected you on your broken crystals balls the other day!
I HAVEN'T VOTED LABOUR FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.
However you try to defend your beloved BJ.
Yes,or no?
-
So, it's all right to be full of self-righteous, morally superior condemnation of a lying former Tory PM, but quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power!
Thank FFT.
You've finally agreed Boris lied.
Now to your point,if there is one.
Manifestos are what parties want to achieve if they get into power.
Never once in history has a government fulfilled all its manifesto. Is that lying?
If you answered yes,which I'm sure you did,shall we talk about 40 new hospitals,stop the boats,the NHS,education,levelling up,Brexit done, etc.
You've got to admit again there are some real lying basterds in Britain.
So, it's quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power?
Yes or No?
Debating with you is impossible,a bit like talking to a plank of wood.
In fact,make that a forest as it's so thick and dense.
I corrected you on your broken crystals balls the other day!
I HAVEN'T VOTED LABOUR FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.
However you try to defend your beloved BJ.
Yes,or no?
But you back up people who think it's quite acceptable to be in full support of, and even set their heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power?
Yes or No?
-
So, it's all right to be full of self-righteous, morally superior condemnation of a lying former Tory PM, but quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power!
Thank FFT.
You've finally agreed Boris lied.
Now to your point,if there is one.
Manifestos are what parties want to achieve if they get into power.
Never once in history has a government fulfilled all its manifesto. Is that lying?
If you answered yes,which I'm sure you did,shall we talk about 40 new hospitals,stop the boats,the NHS,education,levelling up,Brexit done, etc.
You've got to admit again there are some real lying basterds in Britain.
So, it's quite acceptable to be in full support of, nay set one's heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power?
Yes or No?
Debating with you is impossible,a bit like talking to a plank of wood.
In fact,make that a forest as it's so thick and dense.
I corrected you on your broken crystals balls the other day!
I HAVEN'T VOTED LABOUR FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.
However you try to defend your beloved BJ.
Yes,or no?
But you back up people who think it's quite acceptable to be in full support of, and even set their heart on a new Labour PM blatantly lying to the electorate to gain power?
Yes or No?
That is a fair question BB but we know that it will not get answered.
It is fair to say though that we will both get some kind of abuse back.