Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on March 13, 2024, 10:42:47 am
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All sorts of rumblings going on in the Tory party. MPs briefing against Sunak. Rumours of no confidence letters. Sunak called to a private meeting with the head of the 1922 Committee.
As a senior Tory says today, Sunak just doesn't get politics. Time after time he misjudges issues, takes the wrong stance initially and eventually gets forced into a different position.
Yesterday's mess over Hester is a perfect example. It was obvious from the start that the line should have been "Yes of course this was racist and we find it absolutely disgusting." But he had to be forced and dragged into that position after trying, like he does every time, to minimise the issue.
The mood in the Tory party seems to be desperate. I wouldn't rule out them getting rid of him before the Election.
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"democracy".
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"democracy".
$hite I just realised our "Gatekeeper of the Off Topic " has not been "democratically elected "- I will set up a poll
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Just been on the radio that his 'spokesperson' has not ruled out a May election. Make of that what you will.
Maybe Coleman's can set up a poll as he/she likes them so much.
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May election? I guess that's a possibility if it's not a Sunak election.
Seriously tho, the timing is important, I'd have thought that's what the meeting would be about. I can only see things getting worse for Sunak both as PM and re support, knives out, in his own party. And the issue of Reform getting stronger - an existential threat to the Tories. The only thing counter to that would be Labour starting to crumble too in some way - a risky bet for the Tories at this point. The odds are on an early election.
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My money is on 2nd May.
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My money is on 2nd May.
Term as Prime Minister or the date?
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My money is on 2nd May.
Hope not, I’d like 2 days running the polling station not just 1
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My money is on 2nd May.
That's a bold prediction Mike!
I hope you're right; the sooner the better for me.
An early date will reduce the amount of electioneering crap we have to endure.
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My money is on 2nd May.
Term as Prime Minister or the date?
Date of GE. Almost a snap election so Rishi can hang on to be voted out by the public rather than toppled by his own party.
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My money is on 2nd May.
Term as Prime Minister or the date?
Date of GE. Almost a snap election so Rishi can hang on to be voted out by the public rather than toppled by his own party.
Thank goodness. May 2nd gave me worrying thoughts of a last dance for the retiring Theresa. That said, those that have followed her have certainly put her own flaws into context. Love her or loathe her for her politics, she has integrity and that’s been sorely missing since.
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
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My money is on 2nd May.
Term as Prime Minister or the date?
Date of GE. Almost a snap election so Rishi can hang on to be voted out by the public rather than toppled by his own party.
Thank goodness. May 2nd gave me worrying thoughts of a last dance for the retiring Theresa. That said, those that have followed her have certainly put her own flaws into context. Love her or loathe her for her politics, she has integrity and that’s been sorely missing since.
Spot on. All I ask from our leaders is integrity and competence. Even if I disagree with them (which I probably will if they're Tory) at least be up to the job.
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
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I heard a great piece on the radio yesterday about Sunak asking why he's hanging on? It's clear that the only person who wants him to remain as PM is himself. His party don't seem to want him and the country certainly doesn't. So, why is he still here? It strikes me a little of the end of the Major years.
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Shouldn't you be hailing your new leader and our bright new future instead of concentrating on the outgoing one?
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Shouldn't you be hailing your new leader and our bright new future instead of concentrating on the outgoing one?
What makes you say that BB?
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I have no real issue with Sunak, I think he's an alright guy. But he isn't a strong leader. Boris Johnson had many many faults but he got on with what he wanted and could take people with him. Boris will be back, undoubtedly.
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
At last BB has seen the light :-]]
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
Don't care about Starmer. Are you now giving a description of Sunak integrity?
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My bet would be on Cameron or Kemi
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So Cameron has to win a seat at the GE?
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So Cameron has to win a seat at the GE?
Not necessarily I think it is still permissible (though unlikely) for a pm to sit in the lords RR, BST think that’s correct mate?
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
Don't care about Starmer. Are you now giving a description of Sunak integrity?
Having integrity includes having strong moral principles. I'm not sure what Starmers principles are, or if he even has any.
Principles apart, Starmer replacing Sunak will be like Danny Schofield replacing Gary McSheffrey.
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So Cameron has to win a seat at the GE?
Not necessarily I think it is still permissible (though unlikely) for a pm to sit in the lords RR, BST think that’s correct mate?
Technically possible, but practically unimaginable in the modern world.
I think the last PM to sit in the Lords was the Marquis of Salisbury in the 1890s-1900s.
Lord Home gave up his peerage and won a hastily contrived by-election to take over as PM from Macmillan in 1963.
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https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=290400.0
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
Yes who knows thirteenth century laws
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=290400.0
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Yep, we need someone with integrity like Keir Starmer running the country.
Yes who knows thirteenth century laws
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=290400.0
Are you okay? You seem to have found less than half of a complete non-story and all of a sudden you’re going on a promotional tour with it.
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I hope to fcuk he doesn't promote the extended 12" remix!
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You could say Starmer "threw the book at them" .
But Mi Lord surely the thirteenth century book that contained the law would have been damaged ? me thinkx as it would be so delicate
I follows that Starmer could be charged with damaging public property !!
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"!+"?
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"!+"?
is that the modern notation for "imaginary numbers"
An imaginary number is a real number multiplied by the imaginary unit i, which is defined by its property i = −1. The square of an imaginary number bi is −b . For example, 5i is an imaginary number, and its square is −25. The number zero is considered to be both real and imaginary
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It's like the new football formation 4 4 2 0
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"!+"?
is that the modern notation for "imaginary numbers"
An imaginary number is a real number multiplied by the imaginary unit i, which is defined by its property i = −1. The square of an imaginary number bi is −b . For example, 5i is an imaginary number, and its square is −25. The number zero is considered to be both real and imaginary
That's it. I'm off for a f*cking lie down. Anyone got any Diazepam?
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"!+"?
is that the modern notation for "imaginary numbers"
An imaginary number is a real number multiplied by the imaginary unit i, which is defined by its property i = −1. The square of an imaginary number bi is −b . For example, 5i is an imaginary number, and its square is −25. The number zero is considered to be both real and imaginary
That's it. I'm off for a f*cking lie down. Anyone got any Diazepam?
I think CLH only has LSD :lol:
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"!+"?
is that the modern notation for "imaginary numbers"
An imaginary number is a real number multiplied by the imaginary unit i, which is defined by its property i = −1. The square of an imaginary number bi is −b . For example, 5i is an imaginary number, and its square is −25. The number zero is considered to be both real and imaginary
That's it. I'm off for a f*cking lie down. Anyone got any Diazepam?
I think CLH only has LSD :lol:
He has a lot more than that - he's got the whole alphabet! Twice over!
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Telegraph reporting that there's a group of right wing Tory MPs manoeuvring to replace Sunak with Penny Mordaunt.
What was it Andy Warhol said? "In the future, every Tory MP will be Prime Minister for 15 minutes" wasn't it?
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Telegraph reporting that there's a group of right wing Tory MPs manoeuvring to replace Sunak with Penny Mordaunt.
What was it Andy Warhol said? "In the future, every Tory MP will be Prime Minister for 15 minutes" wasn't it?
Interesting.
They should have picked Mordaunt in the first place when replacing Johnson (I did say so at the time not hindsight).
The real significance is should Mordaunt become PM and lead the Tories into the GE, assuming they're not completely wiped out and she can improve their current poll rating, she would in all likelihood continue as Tory leader post GE in opposition - blocking the likes of Badenoch and Braverman.
It's surprising that right wingers are contemplating this move therefore ahead of potentially taking control of the Tory party going forwards.
Are they more interested in protecting their own seats and jobs in the short term maybe?
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The Tories have become a party of too many factions which ironically is something Labour have suffered from many times over .
The unification leader is something they really haven't had since Thatcher .
You can get away with a divided party in Tory world just as long as you win power or retain power but when that no longer becomes the case they fight like rats in a sack .
It's often said that Tories put the Conservative Party before the country and in my opinion that's totally true .
They can hide that in better times but not when things are as they are today .
Saying that it would be foolish to write them off totally and I sense an opening may come to them in opposition .
If Braverman becomes leader it may unify them with Reform UK and they then roll out what's known as National Conservatism which has had many people shaking their head in bewilderment which is fine but they laughed at Keith Joseph and Thatcher too in the mid 70's and we all know how that played out they could then be a serious threat to Labour if Labour don't make a real fist of their term in power .
The Right aren't going away anytime soon , that much I do know .
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Final paragraph BR.
They are looking at potential wipeout in the Election. I said last night that they are not on 18% in the polls at the moment. But they have been going down steadily for 4 years now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election_after_2019_(LOESS).svg
There's peaks and troughs there of course. The got a boost when people rallied to the leader at the start of the pandemic, and when they did a decent job on the vaccine rollout. They got a big hit when they elected a mentally ill PM. But the trend is clear. They've gone down steadily from 45% in early 2020 to 25% now.
If that carries on and they hang on till December or January, they could be down to 20-22% or so.
That's a critical level in FPTP elections. That's where absolute annihilation, and the prospect of only winning 50-80-ish seats becomes very real. That's what Labour were looking at 6 months from the 2019 election, after they'd totally alienated that bulk of their support due to Corbyn finally coming out as a Brexit supporter.
Labour had a way of averting absolute calamity, by going for Ref2 and bringing back several million supporters who had switched to the LDs and Greens. (I know you don't agree, but it's really unarguable from the polling data throughout 2019.)
The Tories don't have that card in this election. There is literally no policy they can pull out of a hat that will attract 2-3million extra voters in the way that Ref2 did for Labour in 2019.
They can go full on Farage on race and immigration. And they'll lose centre-Right voters.
They can try to go One Nation style. Maybe admit that the Rwanda policy is batshit, immoral, ineffective and should be ditched. But no-one in the centre will believe they mean it. And the racists still on the Right of the Tory party will flock to Anderson and Farage.
So they are shitting themselves. Looking round for any idea at all. And they have landed on someone whose only merit appears to be that she looked good holding a sword at Charlie's coronation.
That sums up how bereft they are of anything to offer the country.
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While we are talking about Mordaunt, you have to be impressed at the quality of graphics in AI-generated videos these days. This looks just like Mordaunt. But they've got some way to go to get the words right because this sounds like a comedy parody of a politician giving a speech.
https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1709525469576495390/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1709525469576495390¤tTweetUser=mikegalsworthy
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election_after_2019_(LOESS).svg
Has there ever been a more ineffective (not a worse one - specifically ineffective) Prime Minister than Rishi Sunak?
I can't think of one.
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I'm ashamed to say I buy the Express on a Saturday, (Mrs T likes the telemag and the cryptic crossword)
I have a read to see how the other half live and spit vitriol at Carol Malone, but today their political editor has a right go at Sunak, even saying he leads a zombie government.
Summats afoot.
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Telegraph reporting that there's a group of right wing Tory MPs manoeuvring to replace Sunak with Penny Mordaunt.
What was it Andy Warhol said? "In the future, every Tory MP will be Prime Minister for 15 minutes" wasn't it?
Interesting.
They should have picked Mordaunt in the first place when replacing Johnson (I did say so at the time not hindsight).
The real significance is should Mordaunt become PM and lead the Tories into the GE, assuming they're not completely wiped out and she can improve their current poll rating, she would in all likelihood continue as Tory leader post GE in opposition - blocking the likes of Badenoch and Braverman.
It's surprising that right wingers are contemplating this move therefore ahead of potentially taking control of the Tory party going forwards.
Are they more interested in protecting their own seats and jobs in the short term maybe?
Iv'e got money on a certain somebody at around 420/1 to be the next lTory Leader and it's not a woman and he's in the top five now so I have some very serious decisions to make about gardening -hedging
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I don't particularly rate Sunak. He is slow to read developing political problems and both his economic and social policies are horrendous. He's fully signed up to the Culture War front that the Tory Right are insisting on.
But.
I'm not sure anyone could have done better.
The Tories simply do not have a functional economic policy to offer to the country.
They don't have any positive philosophy of society to offer.
They clung on to Brexit, not from any philosophical principle, but because it served their electoral purposes. It allowed them to divide their opponents and sweep to power in 2019.
But now that's done (well, it isn't, and never will be, but that's irrelevant now - the anti-EU folk got their dopamine hit when we formally left) they have nothing left other than full on foreigner/immigrant/non-tradional sexuality bashing.
That's not Sunak's fault. He's just the one left holding the reins of the hollowed out husk of what used to be a proud political party.
The next few years are truly existential for the Tories. They cannot exist as a serious party by only appealing to bigots and racists. But they have to find something else to offer. And personally, I don't see anything.
As I say, that's not Sunak's fault. But I don't see any sign of him being able to solve it.
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Tories will get hammered in the locals and GE. No one in their right mind would want to be tory leader into nor after the election. Sunak then is the fall guy.
As for beyond that, it all depends on reform. The tories could disappear, bar for the cheap beer and bingo at their social clubs. It would take a very savvy leader to pick them up and go on to win something in 5 years.
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Tories will get hammered in the locals and GE. No one in their right mind would want to be tory leader into nor after the election. Sunak then is the fall guy.
As for beyond that, it all depends on reform. The tories could disappear, bar for the cheap beer and bingo at their social clubs. It would take a very savvy leader to pick them up and go on to win something in 5 years.
..... Or an abysmal Labour performance in office.
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Tories will get hammered in the locals and GE. No one in their right mind would want to be tory leader into nor after the election. Sunak then is the fall guy.
As for beyond that, it all depends on reform. The tories could disappear, bar for the cheap beer and bingo at their social clubs. It would take a very savvy leader to pick them up and go on to win something in 5 years.
..... Or an abysmal Labour performance in office.
True, although unlikely to be bad enough to allow a Tory Party, as disintegrated as this one is, time to pull it's pants up. Anyway, the point was that anyone taking on the role is going to be second rate in that they';; almost certainly never be in a race for PM where they stand a chance. Maybe Gove will be that second rate man with authority who'll be up for the temporary post?
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Tories will get hammered in the locals and GE. No one in their right mind would want to be tory leader into nor after the election. Sunak then is the fall guy.
As for beyond that, it all depends on reform. The tories could disappear, bar for the cheap beer and bingo at their social clubs. It would take a very savvy leader to pick them up and go on to win something in 5 years.
..... Or an abysmal Labour performance in office.
It'll take Labour, if they win, 5 years to sort out the mess this lot are leaving the country in
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
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To work out how long would be required for any government to repair the damage caused by 14 + years of tory maladministration one would have to work the cost to clear the backlog.
NHS
Schools
Water Treatment
Rail system and Train companies
Police
Roads
Defence ........ etc, etc, etc.
The cost of lives and early death due to Austerity and Covid could never be fully evaluated on a monetary basis I would think.
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To work out how long would be required for any government to repair the damage caused by 14 + years of tory maladministration one would have to work the cost to clear the backlog.
NHS
Schools
Water Treatment
Rail system and Train companies
Police
Roads
Defence ........ etc, etc, etc.
The cost of lives and early death due to Austerity and Covid could never be fully evaluated on a monetary basis I would think.
I bet you are glad you are out of it AYE?
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To work out how long would be required for any government to repair the damage caused by 14 + years of tory maladministration one would have to work the cost to clear the backlog.
NHS
Schools
Water Treatment
Rail system and Train companies
Police
Roads
Defence ........ etc, etc, etc.
The cost of lives and early death due to Austerity and Covid could never be fully evaluated on a monetary basis I would think.
We got things done following WW2
Aye ?
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To work out how long would be required for any government to repair the damage caused by 14 + years of tory maladministration one would have to work the cost to clear the backlog.
NHS
Schools
Water Treatment
Rail system and Train companies
Police
Roads
Defence ........ etc, etc, etc.
The cost of lives and early death due to Austerity and Covid could never be fully evaluated on a monetary basis I would think.
I bet you are glad you are out of it AYE?
Most of my family and many friends are still in it sprot.
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This doesn't cover the loss of gdp through Austerity and brexit plus the ongoing costs,
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Tories will get hammered in the locals and GE. No one in their right mind would want to be tory leader into nor after the election. Sunak then is the fall guy.
As for beyond that, it all depends on reform. The tories could disappear, bar for the cheap beer and bingo at their social clubs. It would take a very savvy leader to pick them up and go on to win something in 5 years.
..... Or an abysmal Labour performance in office.
It'll take Labour, if they win, 5 years to sort out the mess this lot are leaving the country in
It'll take a generation to sort out the state these bas**rds are leaving
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
The only mess was the GFC.Befire that the Economy was doing OK.
There were no long NHS waiting lists.
No strikes.
Took the Tories 5 years to sort out.
Are you mad?
They just went all Austerity and made things far worse.
Just vote Tory hound and stop coming on here pretending otherwise.
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
The only mess was the GFC.Befire that the Economy was doing OK.
There were no long NHS waiting lists.
No strikes.
Took the Tories 5 years to sort out.
Are you mad?
They just went all Austerity and made things far worse.
Just vote Tory hound and stop coming on here pretending otherwise.
This. 100% this.
There's folk who will never, ever accept it though. Impervious to rational argument.
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how many times do we need to remind you
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/175749/Labour-There-s-no-money-left-in-Treasury
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how many times do we need to remind you
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/175749/Labour-There-s-no-money-left-in-Treasury
Yes the long standing joke that outgoing govts leave, only that time the Tories weaponised it
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Was going to post that missen Filo.
An old chestnut that the Tories got people to believe.
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how many times do we need to remind you
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/175749/Labour-There-s-no-money-left-in-Treasury
Yeah ok.
Right, what were we talking about?
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
The only mess was the GFC.Befire that the Economy was doing OK.
There were no long NHS waiting lists.
No strikes.
Took the Tories 5 years to sort out.
Are you mad?
They just went all Austerity and made things far worse.
Just vote Tory hound and stop coming on here pretending otherwise.
I wouldn’t expect any other kind of reply from you or some of your forum buddies Tommy.
No criticism can be accepted can it.
As for voting at the GE, sadly I am going with Labour because I want to see the bright future that they are going to provide for us all.
And I don’t give a monkeys how you THINK I am going to vote.
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
The only mess was the GFC.Befire that the Economy was doing OK.
There were no long NHS waiting lists.
No strikes.
Took the Tories 5 years to sort out.
Are you mad?
They just went all Austerity and made things far worse.
Just vote Tory hound and stop coming on here pretending otherwise.
I wouldn’t expect any other kind of reply from you or some of your forum buddies Tommy.
No criticism can be accepted can it.
As for voting at the GE, sadly I am going with Labour because I want to see the bright future that they are going to provide for us all.
And I don’t give a monkeys how you THINK I am going to vote.
Your quote wasn't criticism though was it hound? Hatchet job more like.
You blithely accept that Labour left the country in a mess in 2010, when issues beyond their control caused it. Prior to that the country was doing OK, far far better than it is now.
Then you assert it must have took the Tories 5 years to sort it out.
Where's your evidence that they've sorted anything out and they've had a damn sight longer than 5 years.
Stick with you more intelligent mates Sproty and BB and don't vote Labour PLEASE.
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
The only mess was the GFC.Befire that the Economy was doing OK.
There were no long NHS waiting lists.
No strikes.
Took the Tories 5 years to sort out.
Are you mad?
They just went all Austerity and made things far worse.
Just vote Tory hound and stop coming on here pretending otherwise.
I wouldn’t expect any other kind of reply from you or some of your forum buddies Tommy.
No criticism can be accepted can it.
As for voting at the GE, sadly I am going with Labour because I want to see the bright future that they are going to provide for us all.
And I don’t give a monkeys how you THINK I am going to vote.
Your quote wasn't criticism though was it hound? Hatchet job more like.
You blithely accept that Labour left the country in a mess in 2010, when issues beyond their control caused it. Prior to that the country was doing OK, far far better than it is now.
Then you assert it must have took the Tories 5 years to sort it out.
Where's your evidence that they've sorted anything out and they've had a damn sight longer than 5 years.
Stick with you more intelligent mates Sproty and BB and don't vote Labour PLEASE.
But they did leave it in a mess Tommy.
You are happy to use the GFC as an excuse for that, “ when issues beyond their control caused it”.
Yet you forget to mention the covid years and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which of course the current government knew was coming !!
Absolutely total non recognition of reality.
Oh, and you aren’t alone in that position.
There’s folk who will never accept that though.
I will be voting Labour as well so I will be in your camp and be able to claim the glory if things go well and hang my head in shame with you if the shit hits the fan.
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
Trouble there is they never sorted anything out, just made it worse over the next 14 years. Will Labour get that long to put things right again or wll ther be a note left
Nothing left and you already owe Xbillions good luck!
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You're towing the Tory line again hound.
The country was in a shocking state due to Austerity and Brexit long before Covid and Ukraine kicked in.
Vote Tory man, they're the ones for you
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
No mention of the mess that Labour left in 2010 though.
That must have taken at least five years to sort out.
So far we have a five year plan and a ten year plan being suggested for Labour.
Any advance on ten?
Trouble there is they never sorted anything out, just made it worse over the next 14 years. Will Labour get that long to put things right again or wll ther be a note left
Nothing left and you already owe Xbillions good luck!
Well mate, apparently it is traditional to leave a note so there shouldn’t be a fuss when there is one, unless of course the Labour people weaponise it.
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You're towing the Tory line again hound.
The country was in a shocking state due to Austerity and Brexit long before Covid and Ukraine kicked in.
Vote Tory man, they're the ones for you
Don’t blame me for Brexit Tommy, I voted remain (not the Tory line).
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I blame you for bringing up, as all Tories do at the moment, for blaming everything on Covid and Ukraine, conveniently forgetting what they did in the 10 years prior to that, to bugger things up.
As you just did. That is towing the party line.
Vote Tory.
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TT.
Bang on.
Yes, the GFC was a major crisis. But the issue is that there was a textbook way to restrengthen the economy after that.
It wouldn't have been painless, but the alternative approach they took (Austerity) was a disaster of historic proportions. That has left us permanently, and massively less wealthy than we should have been. Hence the reduction in funding for benefits and public services.
Folk who are entrenched on the Right steadfastly refuse ever to engage on the issue of what a stupid and destructive error Austerity was. They don't want to be challenged in their belief that Labour must have been to blame.
It is enough to make you weep over democracy.
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Got it BST. Global issue (financial crisis) = free pass for labour. Global issue (Pandemic) = beat the Tories. Don’t you ever get embarrassed at your double standards?
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
It's a miracle, BB has seen the light
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So all your beloved party's blind promises will not be fulfilled unless it is given another bite of the cherry after 5 years of failure!
Exoneration in anticipation of failure!
So, in your world, it's the Tory's fault when they're in power, and the Tory's fault when they're not in power!
I see!
It's a miracle, BB has seen the light
That did make me laugh mind
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how many times do we need to remind you
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/175749/Labour-There-s-no-money-left-in-Treasury
and the proof is below
https://www.newstatesman.com/long-reads/2018/10/how-austerity-broke-britain-and-how-we-can-recover
try and concentrate (if possible) on wurds highlighted below
................................ Finally, the government relied unduly on the inflated profits from the property boom and financial sector to balance its books. When tax receipts from these sources fell sharply during the crisis of 2008, the public sector was revealed as having lived beyond its means. New Labour’s pact with the Mephistopheles of high finance ruined it in the end. In practice, the maintenance of full employment over the Blair-Brown years depended on sleight of hand; publicly subscribing to the new orthodoxy, but trying to get a bit of Keynes through the back door.
The unanswered question is whether monetary policy actually worked. Mervyn King, governor from 2003 to 2013, conceded that the Bank of England had benefited from a “nice environment”. Most economists now think that inflation was kept low not by central bank policy but by the entry of billions of low-wage east Asian, mainly Chinese, workers into the global labour market. These, together with Thatcher’s trade union reforms, subdued wage, and consequently price, pressure.
The failure of prevention and cure
It’s pretty obvious in retrospect that the requirements for maintaining economic stability were grossly underestimated. Friedman’s doctrine that if inflation was controlled, the macroeconomy would be stable ignored Keynes’s crucial insight that investment prospects are inherently uncertain. Macroeconomic policy, he said, therefore, had a decisive role to play in maintaining growth and employment.
Further, he argued that monetary policy on its own was too weak either to prevent a collapse or produce a recovery. So fiscal and monetary policy had to be coordinated. The new orthodoxy discarded these insights.
Pre-crash fiscal policy deprived the budget of any active role in demand management. Once the economy collapsed in 2008, fiscal policy was briefly brought out of retirement, but soon put back in its box. The reason is that in rescuing banks from disaster in 2008-09, the government transformed a great deal of private debt into public debt. Conservative rhetoric was then able to reverse the causation: the crisis was caused by the build-up of public debt under Labour, and could only be resolved by cutting the deficit to zero as quickly as possible.
Of all the arguments supporting the Cameron and Osborne austerity policy (backed by the Liberal Democrats in government), the one that resonated most was that the government was like a private household. Everyone knows, so ran the argument, that if a household’s income falls it has to reduce its consumption. It can borrow temporarily, but the loan must be paid back by saving even more. The same was true for a government. If its revenue falls, as a result of the slump, it needs to cut its own consumption. Any temporary borrowing should be repaid as quickly as possible. This was the logic of Osborne’s austerity programme.
The obvious reply is that the government is not like a household. If a single household cuts its spending this will affect only itself. If the government – which spends 40 per cent of the national income – cuts its spending, it affects everyone else’s spending, because the government’s spending is part of almost everyone else’s income. Therefore, the correct policy in a slump is for the government to increase its deficit not reduce it.
Given the political difficulty of putting this message across, one would think that the economics profession would have been shouting it from the rooftops. But this was no longer the Keynesian economics profession. The economists were hopelessly entangled in doctrines that either stated that the economy was always at full employment – and therefore extra government spending would simply be taking away money already being used by the private sector – or that failure to slash the deficit would lead to a flight of money from the country, leading to a rise in all interest rates, including the government’s. The claim that the national debt was a burden on future generations was allowed to run unchallenged, despite the fact that government borrowing that prevents lost growth benefits future generations.
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CLH, the usual suspects will just Pooh Pooh that information.
If only government had consulted someone on the forum on how to sort it all out.
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Go on hound, explain how the CLH post supports Austerity.
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Why.
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CLH, the usual suspects will just Pooh Pooh that information.
If only government had consulted someone on the forum on how to sort it all out.
they are in dreamland i( just like we are about making the play offs) it's totally irrelevant what either me you or they want to believe
I am just stating well known facts I found under the carpet when I was hoovering today ( nice to know wilts brought his washing in yesterday -by the way) to prove on the balance of probability that note was in fact genuine - they can have their mutual self "mr-bation and orgasmic post" moments after all the world is flat isn't it
this is the New Statesman we have here
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CLH can't even read the bit before the bit he's highlighted in red.
It's like asking a record player explain why Beethoven was a genius. The record player can process whatever information goes though it, but it doesn't understand any of it.
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
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Why.
he needs to read everything not just my selected bits
the article is from 2018
here once again is the link once again
https://www.newstatesman.com/long-reads/2018/10/how-austerity-broke-britain-and-how-we-can-recover
remember it's self service you read it yourself or get your computer to read it all out
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Go on hound, explain how the CLH post supports Austerity.
Why.
Well. Do you think the post supports Austerity?
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CLH can't even read the bit before the bit he's highlighted in red.
It's like asking a record player explain why Beethoven was a genius. The record player can process whatever information goes though it, but it doesn't understand any of it.
BST's nervousness is registering 11 on the richter scale
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CLH, the usual suspects will just Pooh Pooh that information.
If only government had consulted someone on the forum on how to sort it all out.
As you were hound. The above post clearly shows that you did think the Tories were sorting it out with Austerity.
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Go on hound, explain how the CLH post supports Austerity.
Why.
Well. Do you think the post supports Austerity?
support is not the issue to repeat it was needed at that time - full stop - that was the only well known fact i was trying to remind you of. I will now put it back under the carpet - til the annual spring clean --
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Go on hound, explain how the CLH post supports Austerity.
Why.
Well. Do you think the post supports Austerity?
support is not the issue to repeat it was needed at that time - full stop - that was the only well known fact i was trying to remind you of. I will now put it back under the carpet - til the annual spring clean --
You haven't read your own post correctly.
It clearly does not support Austerity in any way, shape or form.
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CLH, the usual suspects will just Pooh Pooh that information.
If only government had consulted someone on the forum on how to sort it all out.
As you were hound. The above post clearly shows that you did think the Tories were sorting it out with Austerity.
No I didn’t.
I just read what bst wrote and knew it was wrong.
I said before, don’t try to know what I think.
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Go on hound, explain how the CLH post supports Austerity.
Why.
Well. Do you think the post supports Austerity?
support is not the issue to repeat it was needed at that time - full stop - that was the only well known fact i was trying to remind you of. I will now put it back under the carpet - til the annual spring clean --
You haven't read your own post correctly.
It clearly does not support Austerity in any way, shape or form.
Like I was saying...
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how many times do we need to remind you
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/175749/Labour-There-s-no-money-left-in-Treasury
Yes the long standing joke that outgoing govts leave, only that time the Tories weaponised it
In fairness to the Tories, it was that odious little Kitson David Laws who weaponised it. The t**t who pulled the LDs into bed with the Tories, after they'd campaigned as being to the left of Labour.
The t**t who lasted about 3 weeks in office before he was caught fiddling his expenses to hide the fact that he was living with his lover.
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as I was saying ...
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Just a reminder for people who can't read graphs, forget that public debt fell initially then was fairly flat under Labour before the GFC, ignore that it has nearly tripled under the Tories austerity 'plan' to bring it down, Ukraine has made very little difference (in fact brought money in as North Sea gas/oil & untility revenues rose), the £16 billion lost to fraud and £7 billion given to 'mates' for unusable PPE during covd and ignore the massive hike to national debt interest by the Truss government.
But Labour...
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CLH, the usual suspects will just Pooh Pooh that information.
If only government had consulted someone on the forum on how to sort it all out.
As you were hound. The above post clearly shows that you did think the Tories were sorting it out with Austerity.
No I didn’t.
I just read what bst wrote and knew it was wrong.
I said before, don’t try to know what I think.
Rubbish excuse that hound.
Why would you think the usual suspects (BST and me for instance) would pooh Pooh it when BST Has been saying a lot of what was in that article for years.
Vote Tory for Gods sake.
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Just a reminder for people who can't read graphs, forget that public debt fell initially then was fairly flat under Labour before the GFC, ignore that it has nearly tripled under the Tories austerity 'plan' to bring it down, Ukraine has made very little difference (in fact brought money in as North Sea gas/oil & untility revenues rose), the £16 billion lost to fraud and £7 billion given to 'mates' for unusable PPE during covd and ignore the massive hike to national debt interest by the Truss government.
But Labour...
Yeah despite Austerity which was designed to reduce the National debt, it is now at the highest level since the 1960's.
In 2005 it was 27% of GDP.
It's now 98%
* sorry, for those who don't do graphs!
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
Would that wet lettuce last longer than the previous PM as well?
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CLH, the usual suspects will just Pooh Pooh that information.
If only government had consulted someone on the forum on how to sort it all out.
As you were hound. The above post clearly shows that you did think the Tories were sorting it out with Austerity.
No I didn’t.
I just read what bst wrote and knew it was wrong.
I said before, don’t try to know what I think.
Rubbish excuse that hound.
Why would you think the usual suspects (BST and me for instance) would pooh Pooh it when BST Has been saying a lot of what was in that article for years.
Vote Tory for Gods sake.
I’m sorry Tommy, I’m coming over to your team.
We will have to take whatever Starmer decides on together and live with the consequences.
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OK hound, but for Christ's sake don't come out campaigning with me.
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That’s ok Tommy, I wouldn’t dream of doing that.
I would imagine that you don’t get much opposition to your views in our area anyway.
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
Would that wet lettuce last longer than the previous PM as well?
I think BST needs a makeover if he is going to become PM may I suggest we rename him "WET Lollo Rosso" that's the favourite lettuce in Coleman Towers apparently it's the Pope's favourite - he always says at meal times "lettuce prey" ironnic innit Mrs BST knows all about that variett of lettuce
it also has crinkly edges like BST
https://www.notonthehighstreet.com/acquagarden/product/salad-plants-lettuce-lollo-rosso-9x-plug-plant-pack?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=376430991&cq_term=&cq_plac=&cq_net=o&cq_plt=gp&DGMKT=FID__TID_pla-4581115205290371_PID_1364566_CRI_4581115205290371_ST_TYPES%20OF%20LETTUCE%20LOLO%20ROSSO&msclkid=5cbe9f387ed41e7bd1defacf30cd24bd&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_FGT_a.Catchall&utm_term=4581115205290371&utm_content=a.Catchall%20%7C%20Family%20%7C%20garden%20%26%20outdoors
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
Would that wet lettuce last longer than the previous PM as well?
I hope not RR. If you think we're in a state now wait till Starmer gets in. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
Would that wet lettuce last longer than the previous PM as well?
I think BST needs a makeover if he is going to become PM may I suggest we rename him "WET Lollo Rosso" that's the favourite lettuce in Coleman Towers apparently it's the Pope's favourite - he always says at meal times "lettuce prey" ironnic innit Mrs BST knows all about that variett of lettuce
it also has crinkly edges like BST
https://www.notonthehighstreet.com/acquagarden/product/salad-plants-lettuce-lollo-rosso-9x-plug-plant-pack?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=376430991&cq_term=&cq_plac=&cq_net=o&cq_plt=gp&DGMKT=FID__TID_pla-4581115205290371_PID_1364566_CRI_4581115205290371_ST_TYPES%20OF%20LETTUCE%20LOLO%20ROSSO&msclkid=5cbe9f387ed41e7bd1defacf30cd24bd&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_FGT_a.Catchall&utm_term=4581115205290371&utm_content=a.Catchall%20%7C%20Family%20%7C%20garden%20%26%20outdoors
Just weird.
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That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
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I can see off topic has been through the 'hound is never wrong routine' again, very sad.
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/11/babies-battle-ropes-and-billy-joel-how-doncaster-rovers-reach-out
Everyone read this, it's difficult to quantify but I would think with so many people in Donny and surrounding areas doing it tough that this affected support for DRFC and gate receipts.
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That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
OK, let's start at number one.
"It's why we have the roads of a third world country."
We have over a million potholes in the UK now.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/rac-pothole-index-statistics-data-and-projections/
In 2010, we had 2 million!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/12/potholes-britain-roads-repairs
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That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
I don't think you'd get many people to disagree with that .
The scepticism comes from the lack of ideas and u turns plus the most right wing looking Labour Party ever .
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The link doesn't work bb, it's a metaphor for the country's services, I guess.
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Both links work for me Syd.
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That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
OK, let's start at number one.
"It's why we have the roads of a third world country."
We have over a million potholes in the UK now.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/rac-pothole-index-statistics-data-and-projections/
In 2010, we had 2 million!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/12/potholes-britain-roads-repairs
Ah, but the potholes we have now are twice as deep as the ones we had in 2010 BB.
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Vote Tory hound.
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Have you no sense of humour Tommy.
I know your anger might not allow it but surely you can see that your new colleague (me) was making a joke.
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Ah, so now it's the 'selby' defence
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Have you no sense of humour Tommy.
I know your anger might not allow it but surely you can your new colleague (me) was making a joke.
i was just about to post about our "Gatekeeper" of the Off Topic Section having no sense of humour ( i have only known one German with a sense of humour - maybe he lost it today after losing to Man U) so perhaps he has some Germanic influence in his pedigree -that might explain it
Regarding these electric tanks parading as cars has it dawned on anyone their contribution to the potholes.
I plead an electric pothole tax - old car parks are not built to take these stupid weights as the ego trippping things get wider and wider overlapping the car parking spaces -as i said damaging the roads and meanwjhile we ban the cheap Chinese variation 5 grand versions
as we head for a two state society
remember it is illegal for the common man including Rod Stewart ( and I wasn't only joking) to repair a pothole
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
Would that wet lettuce last longer than the previous PM as well?
I hope not RR. If you think we're in a state now wait till Starmer gets in. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
the iceberg lettuce :facepalm:
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Vote Tory hound.
Unless I'm mistaken, Hound, like me, isn't promoting the Tory Party. He is, like me, merely trying to dry out the brainwashed.
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That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
i presume the above is a "cut and paste job" although as such I can't find it
every country has problems pfukking Germany is in recession - screwed up train network etc etc and every country has lots of the above and life is
only going to get worse -- so much that happens in Europe goes unreported here.
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Ah, so now it's the 'selby' defence
I played at Selby for two years Syd.
Our defence was very good back then.
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Ah, so now it's the 'selby' defence
I played at Selby for two years Syd.
Our defence was very good back then.
I know a Sicilian Defence but not a Selby one -- I had to get that off my chesst :crying:
but we are just white and black pawns in "the game of life"
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That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
i presume the above is a "cut and paste job" although as such I can't find it
every country has problems pfukking Germany is in recession - screwed up train network etc etc and every country has lots of the above and life is
only going to get worse -- so much that happens in Europe goes unreported here.
No all mine. I'll leave the cut and pasting to you on planet Coleman.
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''Hi, I am a refugee from the late YAURS and look forward to sharing some of my 'dreams', along with having some help in settling one or two 'arguments' that may crop up.:dry:''
-
That's it BB.
Despite the mountain ofdocumented evidence people put on here that shows what a shit show this government is and has been for the last 14 years you still think Labour will be worse.
A bunch of chimpanzees couldn't do worse.
They've got everything, every big decision wrong, wrong, wrong.
Which is why I and millions of others are on a years long NHS waiting list.
It's why we have the roads of a third world country.
It's why schools are falling down and underfunded.
It's why millions are on zero contract minimum wage.
It's why dentist are going private.
It's why councils are going bankrupt.
It's why social care is on its knees.
It's why our National debt is 98%, of GDP.
It's why inflation rocketed and consequently interest rates rose to a level where people's mortgages rocketed too.
It's why there are thousands and thousands of homeless people.
Some record that.
The sioner they're gone the better. Never to return if I had owt to do with it.
i presume the above is a "cut and paste job" although as such I can't find it
every country has problems pfukking Germany is in recession - screwed up train network etc etc and every country has lots of the above and life is
only going to get worse -- so much that happens in Europe goes unreported here.
No all mine. I'll leave the cut and pasting to you on planet Coleman. & the Socialist Patronizing cut and Paste merchants ( one in particular winning by a distance)
Mrs Coleman was just saying about how patronizing socialists are
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The Labour Party need to solve why it is we are paying ever increasing taxes and yet we have third world services .
Whose got the money ?
Because it's ending up somewhere .
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I blame BST for possessing all that genius and wasting it on a fourth-division off-topic football forum. We could now all be living in great wealth, with no NHS waiting lists, instant doctor appointments, no illegal immigration, no crime etc, if only he ran the country.
.....But what does he do? He wastes his entire time on this forum telling everybody to vote for a wet lettuce instead.
Would that wet lettuce last longer than the previous PM as well?
I hope not RR. If you think we're in a state now wait till Starmer gets in. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
I see what you did there :-]]
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Got it BST. Global issue (financial crisis) = free pass for labour. Global issue (Pandemic) = beat the Tories. Don’t you ever get embarrassed at your double standards?
I don't know why you have to do this, because you're smarter than this.
I do NOT and never have blamed the Tories for the economic dislocation due to COVID. Why on earth would you suggest I had?
I do however, blame them for the economic dislocation due to:
Austerity
Brexit
Trussonomics
Point?
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how many times do we need to remind you
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/175749/Labour-There-s-no-money-left-in-Treasury
Was going to post that missen Filo.
An old chestnut that the Tories got gullible people to believe.
Fixed that for you TT
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I don't particularly rate Sunak. He is slow to read developing political problems and both his economic and social policies are horrendous. He's fully signed up to the Culture War front that the Tory Right are insisting on.
But.
I'm not sure anyone could have done better.
The Tories simply do not have a functional economic policy to offer to the country.
They don't have any positive philosophy of society to offer.
They clung on to Brexit, not from any philosophical principle, but because it served their electoral purposes. It allowed them to divide their opponents and sweep to power in 2019.
But now that's done (well, it isn't, and never will be, but that's irrelevant now - the anti-EU folk got their dopamine hit when we formally left) they have nothing left other than full on foreigner/immigrant/non-tradional sexuality bashing.
That's not Sunak's fault. He's just the one left holding the reins of the hollowed out husk of what used to be a proud political party.
The next few years are truly existential for the Tories. They cannot exist as a serious party by only appealing to bigots and racists. But they have to find something else to offer. And personally, I don't see anything.
As I say, that's not Sunak's fault. But I don't see any sign of him being able to solve it.
Talking about how existential the crisis is for the Tory party.
There was a YouGov poll out last week. The total number of people below the age of 50 who said they would vote Tory if there was an Election tomorrow was SEVEN per-cent.
They have spent 14 years in power offering precisely nothing to that demographic. They are going to pay for that for the next 3-4 decades.
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I don't particularly rate Sunak. He is slow to read developing political problems and both his economic and social policies are horrendous. He's fully signed up to the Culture War front that the Tory Right are insisting on.
But.
I'm not sure anyone could have done better.
The Tories simply do not have a functional economic policy to offer to the country.
They don't have any positive philosophy of society to offer.
They clung on to Brexit, not from any philosophical principle, but because it served their electoral purposes. It allowed them to divide their opponents and sweep to power in 2019.
But now that's done (well, it isn't, and never will be, but that's irrelevant now - the anti-EU folk got their dopamine hit when we formally left) they have nothing left other than full on foreigner/immigrant/non-tradional sexuality bashing.
That's not Sunak's fault. He's just the one left holding the reins of the hollowed out husk of what used to be a proud political party.
The next few years are truly existential for the Tories. They cannot exist as a serious party by only appealing to bigots and racists. But they have to find something else to offer. And personally, I don't see anything.
As I say, that's not Sunak's fault. But I don't see any sign of him being able to solve it.
Talking about how existential the crisis is for the Tory party.
There was a YouGov poll out last week. The total number of people below the age of 50 who said they would vote Tory if there was an Election tomorrow was SEVEN per-cent.
They have spent 14 years in power offering precisely nothing to that demographic. They are going to pay for that for the next 3-4 decades.
We are due a change of Government, but I predict that if we have a Labour government we will see all of the loonies come out from under the Rug and there will be a power battle , Starmer and Reeves and the other sensible will be severely hindered by all of this, which will make the monumental task of Social reform impossible due to the complete lack of any leeway in the very tight fiscal situation that the country is in!
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There are more loonies in the country than those that are sane, sprot?
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The Conservatives will be so insignificant that the main political and cultural opposition to Labour will come from further left.
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seismic change in the odds today on who's next leader
happy days
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I don't particularly rate Sunak. He is slow to read developing political problems and both his economic and social policies are horrendous. He's fully signed up to the Culture War front that the Tory Right are insisting on.
But.
I'm not sure anyone could have done better.
The Tories simply do not have a functional economic policy to offer to the country.
They don't have any positive philosophy of society to offer.
They clung on to Brexit, not from any philosophical principle, but because it served their electoral purposes. It allowed them to divide their opponents and sweep to power in 2019.
But now that's done (well, it isn't, and never will be, but that's irrelevant now - the anti-EU folk got their dopamine hit when we formally left) they have nothing left other than full on foreigner/immigrant/non-tradional sexuality bashing.
That's not Sunak's fault. He's just the one left holding the reins of the hollowed out husk of what used to be a proud political party.
The next few years are truly existential for the Tories. They cannot exist as a serious party by only appealing to bigots and racists. But they have to find something else to offer. And personally, I don't see anything.
As I say, that's not Sunak's fault. But I don't see any sign of him being able to solve it.
Talking about how existential the crisis is for the Tory party.
There was a YouGov poll out last week. The total number of people below the age of 50 who said they would vote Tory if there was an Election tomorrow was SEVEN per-cent.
They have spent 14 years in power offering precisely nothing to that demographic. They are going to pay for that for the next 3-4 decades.
And it just gets worse for the Tories.
They tried the NI bribe in the Budget and they've gone done still further in the polls.
https://x.com/lara_spirit/status/1770685592264700387?s=20
I'm sure this is an outlier and they aren't really on 19%, but look at the trends.
They were already struggling when Johnson got hoyed out. Then they lost 5-10% support to Labour after they elected an insane woman as PM for a Clough-night.
Now the racists and bigots that they kept hold of even through that are deserting them and going to Farage.
This is certainly an existential crisis for the Tories. How do they reclaim both the people who think they are batshit, and the people who think they aren't batshit enough?
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I guess because this is what people want ...........
''Blow for Sunak’s budget plan as fewer than 1 in 5 Tory voters want tax cuts if it means public spending cuts''
''23 Feb 2024 — Rishi Sunak's hopes of enticing voters with a tax giveaway have been dealt a major blow as new polling by the Fairness Foundation revealed ...''
the independent
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The obvious endgame for the Tories is to merge with Reform.
That poll puts combined Tory-Reform support at 34%, which is competitive.
But you'd think that there's a decent chunk of moderate Tory supporters who would be appalled at voting for Farage policies and would look elsewhere. All the more reason why Labour has to be attractive to centre-Right switchers. The nightmare scenario for the country is a Farage-far right Tory party getting into power and going down the Orban route in Hungary. Pro-Russia, anti-democracy, beating down on dissent and the courts.
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BRING IT ON. THIS WILL BE THE ENDGAME AFTER ONE TERM OF LIEBOUR GOVERNMENT. :lol:
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Oh eh up. Our resident fascist is back.
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The obvious endgame for the Tories is to merge with Reform.
That poll puts combined Tory-Reform support at 34%, which is competitive.
But you'd think that there's a decent chunk of moderate Tory supporters who would be appalled at voting for Farage policies and would look elsewhere. All the more reason why Labour has to be attractive to centre-Right switchers. The nightmare scenario for the country is a Farage-far right Tory party getting into power and going down the Orban route in Hungary. Pro-Russia, anti-democracy, beating down on dissent and the courts.
By endgame do you mean before an election or afterwards? Would a slight shift to the right in Kemi Badenoch attract Reform voters back?
In the recent Portuguese election the centre-right party won by a minority. But they have refused to form a coalition with the far-right party.
Perhaps Iberian can tell us what went wrong with the outgoing centre-left government and why the far-right have grown so much there.
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I mean after the election NC.
The plotters have shot their bolt before the election. If they were going to get rid of Sunak, they should have done it last week when he was caving in. He's called their bluff.
Meanwhile, the drift to Reform continues.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1770790092078026995
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The obvious endgame for the Tories is to merge with Reform.
That poll puts combined Tory-Reform support at 34%, which is competitive.
But you'd think that there's a decent chunk of moderate Tory supporters who would be appalled at voting for Farage policies and would look elsewhere. All the more reason why Labour has to be attractive to centre-Right switchers. The nightmare scenario for the country is a Farage-far right Tory party getting into power and going down the Orban route in Hungary. Pro-Russia, anti-democracy, beating down on dissent and the courts.
By endgame do you mean before an election or afterwards? Would a slight shift to the right in Kemi Badenoch attract Reform voters back?
In the recent Portuguese election the centre-right party won by a minority. But they have refused to form a coalition with the far-right party.
Perhaps Iberian can tell us what went wrong with the outgoing centre-left government and why the far-right have grown so much there.
NC,
I'll get back to you when I have more time.,I have no answers only opinion. There hasn't been a dramatic rise to the right tho!!
Anyway, I'm in the middle of a bit of Fado at the mo