Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: tyke1962 on March 22, 2024, 07:27:29 pm
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Wow , this really isn't good at all .
Moscow concert hall shooting: dozens killed and roof collapsing as fire rips through venue – latest updates https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/mar/22/moscow-concert-attack-crocus-city-hall-shooting-russia-live-updates?CMP=share_btn_url
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My bet is a false flag, apparently it took the emergency services an hour to arrive on scene, enough time for the FSB operatives to make their escape
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The Russian authorities have instantly urged the international community to condemn the attack.
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As they bloody should, it's a horrible terrorist attack.
Anyone in the world should be able to enjoy a gig, as I did in Sheffield last night without fear.
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As they bloody should, it's a horrible terrorist attack.
Anyone in the world should be able to enjoy a gig, as I did in Sheffield last night without fear.
WAY too early to say what's happened. The FSB has a long history of killing its own people in false flag operations.
And even if it IS Ukrainian action, Ukrainians have a right to sleep in their beds without 150 missiles and drones being lobbed at them last night.
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There is no denying Ukraine has really suffered but somehow I can't see the leadership sanctioning a terror attack on civilians.
That's not to say some other Ukrainian group might be taking matters into their own hands.
I'd say it's far too early to say anything about it.
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US intelligence warned of such attack two weeks ago
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My bet is a false flag, apparently it took the emergency services an hour to arrive on scene, enough time for the FSB operatives to make their escape
I smell bullshit. A van with Ukrainian number plates has been found in a, nearby car park and then two security personnel have supposedly captured one of the suspected terrorists and frog marched him in full view without any cuffs or cable ties around his wrists.
Also, I've never seen sparks coming out of a gun before and people surviving multiple rounds being shot at them at point blank range.
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Ukraine military intelligence services are already saying it's an expected false flag to justify expanding the war (Russia has already started using the word war yesterday) and as a means to justify a new round of civilian mobilisation.
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the Guardian
''Islamic State claims responsibility for attack on concert hall
Islamic State have claimed responsibility on its Telegram channel for the attacks at the Crocus City Hall near Moscow, Reuters is reporting.''
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It seems IS is claiming responsibility. That gives Putin a headache, he won't be wanting to commit the military to Syria or Afghanistan or Chechnya or wherever this terror group is operating from.
Edit: seems to be ISIS-K who operate primarily out of Afghanistan.
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Not sure I've heard of isis-k before RD.
''CNN’s chief national security correspondent writes that sources have revealed that there may have been specific intelligence indicating an imminent attack.
Alex Marquardt
''Since November there has been "fairly specific" intelligence that ISIS-K wanted to carry out attacks in Russia, sources tell me,
US intelligence warned Russia about it. Unclear if that drove the Mar 7 embassy warning''
Isis-K refers to the Islamic State of Khorasan Province, active in South-Central Asia.
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Strange that it took a long time for security services to turn up.
As I've just heard a Russian Citizen say "If I'd stood outside holding a blank piece of A4 paper, how long would I have lasted before being tackled?"
This is another horrific terrorist attack on ordinary people but is it a case of the regime being more concerned about protecting itself rather than it's people?
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I haven't heard of ISIS-K before. Apparently despite being in Afghanistan and Pakistan they don't have a good relationship with the Taliban.
It seems they specifically wanted to target Christians.
That said they have been linked to an attack on a Moscow Synagogue too.
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''Russian President Vladimir Putin dismissed Western warnings about possible terrorist attacks in Russia as "blackmail" days before a mass shooting at a Moscow concert venue claimed at least 40 lives and injured over 100 people, according to Russian media.
Several gunmen opened fire at the Crocus City Hall in Krasnogorsk, northwest of Moscow, on the evening of March 22, killing and injuring dozens of people.
Ahead of the attack, the U.S. Embassy in Russia issued a warning on March 7 that "extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow" and urged American citizens to stay away from crowded areas and venues over the next 48 hours. The U.K., Canada, Germany, and several other countries published similar statements soon after.
Putin dismissed these warnings as a Western provocation, the Russian state-controlled news outlet TASS reported on March 19.
"All of this resembles outright blackmail and an intention to intimidate and destabilize our society," Putin reportedly said at a Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) board meeting''
https://kyivindependent.com/comments-show-putin-dismissed-western-warnings-of-moscow-attack-as-blackmail/
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FSB still trying to spin a Ukraine connection even though ISIS have claimed responsibility
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To be fair isis have before claimed responsibility for attacks they didn't carry out
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To be fair isis have before claimed responsibility for attacks they didn't carry out
It’s definitely not Ukraine involvement however, Putin would love it to be & no doubt if he can spin it their way he will….despite knowing the real perpetrators.
Days after lauding his coming election ‘victory’, he’s chosen to ignore warnings of an imminent terrorist attack in a crowded venue in Moscow because the warnings came from western state security services. Too proud to heed such warnings because his own security forces hadn’t a clue, he’s put 100’s of Russian civilian lives at risk (in this case a count of over 100 dead & many more injured) right in the heart of the Russian capital.
Any other world leader (bar China & North Korea) would be castigated for such dereliction of duty as its country’s ’democratically elected leader’ & hounded out of office.
The last thing Putin needs now is to have to delegate forces & agencies to ‘chase down’ & bring the ‘true culprits’ to justice.
We can all guess how this one will be played out.
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The more the FSB push to frame Ukranian involvement, the more I smell a red flag!
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I don't think it's a false flag. I just think Putin can't resist the opportunity to pin the blame on Ukraine and up the ante.
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To be fair isis have before claimed responsibility for attacks they didn't carry out
This is true. Wait and see on this one.
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Apparently Islamic state have released photos of the attackers.
Perhaps getting a bit frustrated? No, it really was us!
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So Putin can't say they were Ukrainian attackers, because IS has claimed it.
But he's saying they planned to escape into Ukraine.
Let's get that right. The most wanted men in Russia were going to escape over a border through a war zone into an enemy country?
He's either set this up as a false flag attack, or it genuinely is an IS attack and he's making political ends out of the corpses before they are cold.
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A genuine ISIS attack that is being manipulated I think.
I read somewhere about a car where Tajik passports had been found. Tajikistan would make sense, within the Russian sphere, neighbouring Afghanistan.
Tajikistan is under pressure because of the Ukraine war, Russia can't afford to devote the same resources to it. ISIS is likely to be operating there. They might want to try and destabilise Russia whilst it's engaged in a serious war.
Were these blokes really fleeing to Ukraine? Very doubtful.
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I think the linking of this attack with Ukraine in whatever way serves lots of agendasincluding tjose of Russia, Ukraine, US. Anything taking the heat and focus off the conflict can be used as a benefit, especially in adding anothing layer of fog to things. Examples above.
The effect of this attack, the customary revenge action, notably in how the target is chosen, will be interesting to see unfold.
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I can see how linking a terror attack on unarmed citizens to Ukraine suits Putin's agenda.
It makes no sense for Ukraine to be associated with it and they strongly deny it.
The US warned of an impending attack, that Russia failed to take seriously. The US accept the ISIS admission.
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Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.
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Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.
It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.
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Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.
It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.
It was March 7th, and they said for the next 48 hours. They said the perceived threat was from the ISIS K group. On March 7th, Russia says it foiled an attack by ISIS-K on a Moscow synagogue. I haven't got details, but there have apparently been other warnings from the US to Moscow about possibe attacks, hence this one apparently not taken so seriously as being on high alert over a protracted period is harmful. Also in the mix is the work of Ukraine in attacking Moscow and other cities, including civilian areas.
So the headlines obscure the full picture.
The terrorists planning to escape to Ukraine is an interesting point. Some were captured after getting away in a car. So far I haven't see where they were reportedly captured. If it was heading SW, then surely Ukraine is a possible destination.
Then, would Ukraine have anything to do with fascilitating all this, or being linked in any way? Unlikely, that would be stupid. But to say absolutely not is premature. Would the Russian secret services have been involved? Again, possible but unlikely.
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Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.
It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.
This is how warped BRR's view is.
He's saying explicitly here that the US CORRECTLY predicted a future event to make it SEEM that it is good at intel, and to make it seem generous.
You literally cannot argue with this world view. Not because it is right, but because every time there are fact that challenge that world view, the response is "Yeah but that fact must be explicable by some new arguments I will postulate to make my world view right."
It is identical to the approach of religious fundamentalists. They say "God exists and certain things of God's will cannot be understood." Then when someone does scientific studies that show you CAN understand something, they say "Ah yeah. God allowed you to understand that. But he still exists and the next thing isn't understandable."
It's a faith that will interpret any and every event in a way that "confirms" the faith. You cannot use logic to argue with that.
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Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.
It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.
It was March 7th, and they said for the next 48 hours. They said the perceived threat was from the ISIS K group. On March 7th, Russia says it foiled an attack by ISIS-K on a Moscow synagogue. I haven't got details, but there have apparently been other warnings from the US to Moscow about possibe attacks, hence this one apparently not taken so seriously as being on high alert over a protracted period is harmful. Also in the mix is the work of Ukraine in attacking Moscow and other cities, including civilian areas.
So the headlines obscure the full picture.
The terrorists planning to escape to Ukraine is an interesting point. Some were captured after getting away in a car. So far I haven't see where they were reportedly captured. If it was heading SW, then surely Ukraine is a possible destination.
Then, would Ukraine have anything to do with fascilitating all this, or being linked in any way? Unlikely, that would be stupid. But to say absolutely not is premature. Would the Russian secret services have been involved? Again, possible but unlikely.
So in essence, what you’re saying is:-
The US secret services warned they had evidence that there could be a terrorist attack on Russian soil as early as March 7th & that US citizens working in Russian cities (I’m not privy as to whether or not they specifically identified Moscow as being the possible target) & that it would likely happen within the next 48 hours & the attack would be led by the terrorist group ISIS-K? Check.
On March 7th you say that Russia foiled an attack on a Moscow synagogue by that same group. Does it not then suggest (given the timing) that they must have been acting on that evidence presented by the US? Or was it their own security services that were ‘on the ball’ & therefore nothing to do with any evidence gathered & passed onto Moscow from the US or any other western governments?
Just coincidence then perhaps. Check.
You then say “…apparently there have been other warnings from the US to Russia about possible attacks…” but you don’t have any details. ‘Other warnings’ that were acted upon? You don’t have any details.
‘Other warnings’ of what amount, what frequency? Two a day, three a week, one a month? You don’t know because you don’t have any details. But you do know, or at least you make the presumption that it was because of these ‘other warnings’ that “..apparently was the reason this one was not taken so seriously.” Really? Is that your best assumption?
140+ & still counting deaths & multiple casualties but this warning wasn’t acted on because as you go on to say ..”being on high alert over a protracted period is harmful.” It certainly is when you have hundreds of thousands of military personnel, equipment & state departments involved in a ‘Special Military Operation’ but hey, what’s a few hundred dead & wounded innocent Russian citizens enjoying an evening at a concert hall in the centre of their capital city worth when you’re busy invading, shelling & bombing a sovereign neighbouring state?
But I digress.
You go on to say “The terrorists planning to escape to Ukraine is an interesting point”. Well it might be if it were true! You go on “Some of them were captured getting away in a car. So far I haven’t seen where they were reportedly captured”. Oh I’m sure Vladimir will be straight onto the blower to you as soon as he picks up his ideas from the Mick Herron novel Santa brought him.
I apologise. I’ve interrupted ‘my account on the ground’ by BRR.
“If it..” (the car dear reader) “..were heading SW, then surely Ukraine was a possible destination”. Notice no question mark there.
You then continue like an ending to a Miss Marple Mysteries summing up a case! “Would Ukraine have anything to do with facilitating this or be linked in anyway? Doubtful. That would be stupid. But to say not may be premature aunty.”
“Mmmm. Would the Russian secret services have been involved Igor? Again possible, but unlikely. Oh I don’t know. Then of course there was that stranger standing right on the corner….or was that a lamp post?”
So much conjecture in such a small novel.
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I can see how linking a terror attack on unarmed citizens to Ukraine suits Putin's agenda.
It makes no sense for Ukraine to be associated with it and they strongly deny it.
The US warned of an impending attack, that Russia failed to take seriously. The US accept the ISIS admission.
I wonder if Russia did take it seriously, but allowed it to happen anyway to galvanise support for the war which must be patchy after 2 years now, not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers. It is odd that all 4 gunmen were captured alive, too. Doesn't usually happen when ISIS are involved.
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''Alleged suspect in Crocus City Hall shooting forced to eat own ear by Russian law enforcement''
https://english.nv.ua/nation/russia-law-enforcement-forced-alleged-mass-shooting-suspect-to-eat-own-ear-50403788.html
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''Alleged suspect in Crocus City Hall shooting forced to eat own ear by Russian law enforcement''
https://english.nv.ua/nation/russia-law-enforcement-forced-alleged-mass-shooting-suspect-to-eat-own-ear-50403788.html
It seems they won't be keeping tabs on him then.
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The Putin lie is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger
It started off with the Nazi's in Ukraine and the Ukrainian puppet controlled by Western nations.
The liberation of Ukraine.
The sham Russian election where any genuine opposition had either been slain, locked up or exiled.
and now an attempt to label the nasty Ukranians with the awful slaughter at the Crocus City Hall concert.
I get the impression that in this enlightened age Putin is struggling to retain control of events in Russia.
The lack of resistance to the Prigozhin revolt and the apparent delay in responding to the terrorist attack at Crocus Hall kind of suggests that no one dare do anything until instruction is received from the top.
Surely someone somewhere in Russia is aware of the growing deficit in truth including the appalling number of Russian casualties in the so called Special Military Operation. Navalny was a hugely popular political opponent who ended up being eliminated shortly before the sham election - people are unlikely to forget this man quickly.
We now have a situation where the US very publicly warned the Russian government of an impending terrorist attack - credit must go to the intelligence services for this - and the Putin rejection of the advice resulting in the awful slaughter at the Crocus Concert Hall. Putin vanishes for a day and then appears on national TV to imply a Ukraine connection.
I imagine Putin's get out will be to blame the officials who advised him of all this crap but surely it can only be a matter of time before the lie is exposed for all to see?
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Putin seems desperate to pin this on Ukraine
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Putin seems desperate to pin this on Ukraine
Certainly does but the evidence is pointing towards Tajikistan.
The ISIS photo released yesterday shows some of the individuals wearing the same clothing as the gunmen in the footage from the concert hall.
The Guardian says footage has emerged of one of the suspects speaking Tajik.
One of the victims described the gunmen as b being dark and speaking a foreign language. They surely would have recognised Ukrainian if they heard it.
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Putin seems desperate to pin this on Ukraine
Certainly does but the evidence is pointing towards Tajikistan.
The ISIS photo released yesterday shows some of the individuals wearing the same clothing as the gunmen in the footage from the concert hall.
The Guardian says footage has emerged of one of the suspects speaking Tajik.
One of the victims described the gunmen as b being dark and speaking a foreign language. They surely would have recognised Ukrainian if they heard it.
Yes, of the 11 arrested, most were Tajiki - only one not? The issue hasn't been a suggestion that they were Ukrainian but possibly working for them. One said he was paid $5000.
The four? arrested in the car were heading towards Ukraine. That seems crazy to me and may not be true but that's what is being presented with vid evidence. If true, there must be a reason why they were doing that. And if true, it does bring up the question of what link Ukraine has with them.
CIA/Ukraine FSB/MI6 employing them? Certainly possible, they're all involved very intensely in a war with Russia and as wiyh any secret services, there's no morals involved. More likely at this point is that they were ISIS paid even if not your typical ISIS purist warrior.
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Putin seems desperate to pin this on Ukraine
Certainly does but the evidence is pointing towards Tajikistan.
The ISIS photo released yesterday shows some of the individuals wearing the same clothing as the gunmen in the footage from the concert hall.
The Guardian says footage has emerged of one of the suspects speaking Tajik.
One of the victims described the gunmen as b being dark and speaking a foreign language. They surely would have recognised Ukrainian if they heard it.
Yes, of the 11 arrested, most were Tajiki - only one not? The issue hasn't been a suggestion that they were Ukrainian but possibly working for them. One said he was paid $5000.
The four? arrested in the car were heading towards Ukraine. That seems crazy to me and may not be true but that's what is being presented with vid evidence. If true, there must be a reason why they were doing that. And if true, it does bring up the question of what link Ukraine has with them.
CIA/Ukraine FSB/MI6 employing them? Certainly possible, they're all involved very intensely in a war with Russia and as wiyh any secret services, there's no morals involved. More likely at this point is that they were ISIS paid even if not your typical ISIS purist warrior.
The four arrested were 16km from the border with Belarus, maybe the FSB arranged for them to escape through Belarus? Add that to the fact that the minibus in Moscow was claimed to have Ukraine number plates when in reality it had Belarus number plates and you have a common theme
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All the news I'm seeing, including vids, says the car was a white Renault, the same a couple of them arrived in. Also that it was stopped near Bryansk. Where did you get the info about a minibus and near Belarus?
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As most here seem to be confusing the US warning, it was published on 7th March and clearly states for the next 48 hours.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
As I said earlier, subsequently a planned attack on a synagogue was foiled.
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''Alleged suspect in Crocus City Hall shooting forced to eat own ear by Russian law enforcement''
https://english.nv.ua/nation/russia-law-enforcement-forced-alleged-mass-shooting-suspect-to-eat-own-ear-50403788.html
It seems they won't be keeping tabs on him then.
Thats a lobe low
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Perhaps they had given him an earfull when he was arrested
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Here you go BRR
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1771274967218319814?t=PU8OoTWChj2t1Gn1XyEUnA&s=19
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Here you go BRR
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1771274967218319814?t=PU8OoTWChj2t1Gn1XyEUnA&s=19
I'm talking about the car filmed with gunmen arriving in the area, getting out, then driving away later. Renault car. A random suspicious van may also have been involved but it wasn't used to escape as far as I can see.
Apparently it was tracked on leavng Moscow on its way towards Ukraine - intercepted on that road, one that doesn't lead to Belarus. Phone calls were monitored made to Ukraine. If that is the case, and I think it's evidenced, then who were they calling? Who might be able to guide them to an opportune route and then through Ukraine?
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Here you go BRR
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1771274967218319814?t=PU8OoTWChj2t1Gn1XyEUnA&s=19
I'm talking about the car filmed with gunmen arriving in the area, getting out, then driving away later. Renault car. A random suspicious van may also have been involved but it wasn't used to escape as far as I can see.
Apparently it was tracked on leavng Moscow on its way towards Ukraine - intercepted on that road, one that doesn't lead to Belarus. Phone calls were monitored made to Ukraine. If that is the case, and I think it's evidenced, then who were they calling? Who might be able to guide them to an opportune route and then through Ukraine?
Source?
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So a bunch of Tajiks commit heinous a crime, in the manner of IS.
Islamic state say we did it and we've got pictures of the perpetrators Infront of an islamic state flag. And video of them committing the crime.
And then they turn up in court covered in bruises saying... Ukraine paid us to do it.
Of course it was Ukraine all along! Even though they've got no reason to do it and vociferously deny it.
It's like something out of Monty Python.
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RD
And that's before you even start factoring in the constant stream of lies that the Kremlin throws out about everything that has gone on in Putin's War.
Or their track record of blowing up Russian apartment blocks to justify Putin's smashing of Grozny 20 years back.
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Putin has started growing a stubby moustache, especially for BST.
There's a few things not fitting with the ISIS story, the use of the left hand to point to heaven by the gunmen, that they were apparently paid, that they escaped when they could have gone to indulge with the 40 virgins, and that they were heading towards Ukraine. Some things do suggest the ISIS link is possible.
My take on it is something is icky uncomfortable, messy, far more messy than a straight ISIS attack. And then we know the US has been cosy with ISIS for a very long time, so maybe that adds clarity?
If people here feel they can do better than regurgitating the beeb or establishment media, I'll be interested for sure. That'll be excluding that BST then.
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I had the suggestion of a CIA backed operation on my BRR bingo card.
What’s your take on the 1999 apartment bombings?
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Taken from a post on twitter, the useful idiot part is very relevant here
Classic Russian propagandistic smokescreen.
They do this every time something goes very wrong - the MH-17 downing, the Kursk submarine disaster, the failure of the Kyiv blitzkrieg, the sinking of the Moskva missile cruiser etc etc etc.
1. U.S. intelligence in good faith warns Russia (a dictatorial regime that builds itself on its hostility towards America and its allies) of very possible upcoming terror attacks.
2. Putin, being a f**king moron he is, publicly spits in the West’s face and uses the warnings for his cheap anti-Western propaganda.
3. Four ill-prepared ISIS militants commit the most brutal and the deadliest act of terror in 20 years in Russia.
4. Hordes of Russian FSB, police, Rosgvardia are totally helpless and incompetent.
And instead of making conclusions and admitting their secret services’ biggest domestic failure in decades, Putin and his clique instead unleash a massive propagandistic campaign of laying the blame on Ukraine (!), without a single piece of evidence to substantiate the claim.
Now it’s not that Putin and his goons f**ked up - it’s because there a global conspiracy involving CIA, NATO, the USA making Ukraine somehow align with ISIS, and so “the Kiev regime and his patrons are going to pay for this.”
Worse, the death of over 130 civilian Russians in a Jihadist massacre is used to shamelessly throw dirt at Ukraine in external propaganda front - useful idiots and usual suspects are very, very quick to join Putin in seeing “Ukrainian traces” in the Moscow massacre.
It’s Putin as he is - he’ll rather set the world afire and send tens of thousands of people to their death than simply admit his massive f**k-up.
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Here you go BRR
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1771274967218319814?t=PU8OoTWChj2t1Gn1XyEUnA&s=19
I'm talking about the car filmed with gunmen arriving in the area, getting out, then driving away later. Renault car. A random suspicious van may also have been involved but it wasn't used to escape as far as I can see.
Apparently it was tracked on leavng Moscow on its way towards Ukraine - intercepted on that road, one that doesn't lead to Belarus. Phone calls were monitored made to Ukraine. If that is the case, and I think it's evidenced, then who were they calling? Who might be able to guide them to an opportune route and then through Ukraine?
You asked for evidence about the mini bus
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So what does islam have to say about murdering people for money?
I don't think it's rewarded with a hareem of virgins in heaven.
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Taken from a post on twitter, the useful idiot part is very relevant here
Classic Russian propagandistic smokescreen.
They do this every time something goes very wrong - the MH-17 downing, the Kursk submarine disaster, the failure of the Kyiv blitzkrieg, the sinking of the Moskva missile cruiser etc etc etc.
1. U.S. intelligence in good faith warns Russia (a dictatorial regime that builds itself on its hostility towards America and its allies) of very possible upcoming terror attacks.
2. Putin, being a f**king moron he is, publicly spits in the West’s face and uses the warnings for his cheap anti-Western propaganda.
3. Four ill-prepared ISIS militants commit the most brutal and the deadliest act of terror in 20 years in Russia.
4. Hordes of Russian FSB, police, Rosgvardia are totally helpless and incompetent.
And instead of making conclusions and admitting their secret services’ biggest domestic failure in decades, Putin and his clique instead unleash a massive propagandistic campaign of laying the blame on Ukraine (!), without a single piece of evidence to substantiate the claim.
Now it’s not that Putin and his goons f**ked up - it’s because there a global conspiracy involving CIA, NATO, the USA making Ukraine somehow align with ISIS, and so “the Kiev regime and his patrons are going to pay for this.”
Worse, the death of over 130 civilian Russians in a Jihadist massacre is used to shamelessly throw dirt at Ukraine in external propaganda front - useful idiots and usual suspects are very, very quick to join Putin in seeing “Ukrainian traces” in the Moscow massacre.
It’s Putin as he is - he’ll rather set the world afire and send tens of thousands of people to their death than simply admit his massive f**k-up.
And that really is the nub of it Filo.
Putin’s only ‘out’ here is to deflect the failure of him & his security services to protect citizens in Moscow by using (what sort of monster uses the deaths of his people for his own personal gains?) this massacre to wrongly & wilfully blame Ukraine, no matter he has no evidence.
I believe he will use either nuclear or chemical war heads to attack Kyiv & destroy Zelenskyy’s government.
How the west will then react could lead us exactly where this caricature of ‘Dr Strangelove’ wants the world to be. At war.
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Taken from a post on twitter, the useful idiot part is very relevant here
Classic Russian propagandistic smokescreen.
They do this every time something goes very wrong - the MH-17 downing, the Kursk submarine disaster, the failure of the Kyiv blitzkrieg, the sinking of the Moskva missile cruiser etc etc etc.
1. U.S. intelligence in good faith warns Russia (a dictatorial regime that builds itself on its hostility towards America and its allies) of very possible upcoming terror attacks.
2. Putin, being a f**king moron he is, publicly spits in the West’s face and uses the warnings for his cheap anti-Western propaganda.
3. Four ill-prepared ISIS militants commit the most brutal and the deadliest act of terror in 20 years in Russia.
4. Hordes of Russian FSB, police, Rosgvardia are totally helpless and incompetent.
And instead of making conclusions and admitting their secret services’ biggest domestic failure in decades, Putin and his clique instead unleash a massive propagandistic campaign of laying the blame on Ukraine (!), without a single piece of evidence to substantiate the claim.
Now it’s not that Putin and his goons f**ked up - it’s because there a global conspiracy involving CIA, NATO, the USA making Ukraine somehow align with ISIS, and so “the Kiev regime and his patrons are going to pay for this.”
Worse, the death of over 130 civilian Russians in a Jihadist massacre is used to shamelessly throw dirt at Ukraine in external propaganda front - useful idiots and usual suspects are very, very quick to join Putin in seeing “Ukrainian traces” in the Moscow massacre.
It’s Putin as he is - he’ll rather set the world afire and send tens of thousands of people to their death than simply admit his massive f**k-up.
And that really is the nub of it Filo.
Putin’s only ‘out’ here is to deflect the failure of him & his security services to protect citizens in Moscow by using (what sort of monster uses the deaths of his people for his own personal gains?) this massacre to wrongly & wilfully blame Ukraine, no matter he has no evidence.
I believe he will use either nuclear or chemical war heads to attack Kyiv & destroy Zelenskyy’s government.
How the west will then react could lead us exactly where this caricature of ‘Dr Strangelove’ wants the world to be. At war.
Agree with both of these posts. And you know the crazy thing about it? The vast majority of the Russian people just cannot see that they're being duped by this animal.
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He won't use nukes. Full stop.
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There is a problem when the media is tightly controlled by the state, I was amazed how many turned out to mark Nalvalny's death and again defiantly put in various protest at the 'election'
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Here you go BRR
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1771274967218319814?t=PU8OoTWChj2t1Gn1XyEUnA&s=19
I'm talking about the car filmed with gunmen arriving in the area, getting out, then driving away later. Renault car. A random suspicious van may also have been involved but it wasn't used to escape as far as I can see.
Apparently it was tracked on leavng Moscow on its way towards Ukraine - intercepted on that road, one that doesn't lead to Belarus. Phone calls were monitored made to Ukraine. If that is the case, and I think it's evidenced, then who were they calling? Who might be able to guide them to an opportune route and then through Ukraine?
You asked for evidence about the mini bus
Are you saying there isn't much? Certainly nothing about it heading to Belarus.
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As most here seem to be confusing the US warning, it was published on 7th March and clearly states for the next 48 hours.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
As I said earlier, subsequently a planned attack on a synagogue was foiled.
One of the attackers was photographed reccying the theatre the next day.
The assumption is the US warning meant they had to delay their attack.
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As most here seem to be confusing the US warning, it was published on 7th March and clearly states for the next 48 hours.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
As I said earlier, subsequently a planned attack on a synagogue was foiled.
One of the attackers was photographed reccying the theatre the next day.
The assumption is the US warning meant they had to delay their attack.
Some assumption. Or things going ahead as planned, under the US radar. Unlike the Synagogue plan that was foiled.
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As most here seem to be confusing the US warning, it was published on 7th March and clearly states for the next 48 hours.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
As I said earlier, subsequently a planned attack on a synagogue was foiled.
One of the attackers was photographed reccying the theatre the next day.
The assumption is the US warning meant they had to delay their attack.
Some assumption. Or things going ahead as planned, under the US radar. Unlike the Synagogue plan that was foiled.
What?
You know this massive terrorist attrocity we're planning?
Maybe we'd better hang on a bit now they've warned everybody about it?...
It takes some believing, that.
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All the news I'm seeing, including vids, says the car was a white Renault, the same a couple of them arrived in. Also that it was stopped near Bryansk. Where did you get the info about a minibus and near Belarus?
He didn't say near Belarus he commented on the number plate you asked for info on the mini bis tha's what the link is
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He won't use nukes. Full stop.
Or how about, surrender now there is one aimed at Kiev you've got X days to respond
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He won't threaten to use nukes. China will make damn sure he doesn't.
The moment anyone uses a "tactical" Nike, or even seriously threatens it, the world is turned upside down.
There's a list of countries that would immediately say "Ok, we can't trust America to make sure no-one uses nukes. Better tool up ourselves."
First on the list are Japan and South Korea. And China's back yard then becomes the most dangerous place on earth. Which China really, REALLY doesn't want to happen.
So, China will make sure it doesn't happen, because it's only Chinese trade that's keeping Russia afloat.
That's one option.
The second is that America DOES respond with the biggest cyber attack imaginable, sending Russia back to the 1950s. And why would Putin want that?
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American,UK and French nukes will already be aimed at Moscow
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Agreed Filo but would it stop a threat to use one on Kiev, I think not with this lunatic
All brinkmanship, who blinks 1st etc
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1) There is no way NATO would respond to a nuclear attack on Kyiv with a nuclear attack on Moscow. But they would stage a huge conventional attack on Russian forces (for example destroying the Black Sea fleet) and a massive, crippling cyber attack. America told Putin that back in 2022.
2) China would go berserk with Putin if he did seriously think about firing a nuke, for the reasons above.
3) Putin isn't a lunatic. He's a thug who punches down, but he's not shown any sign at all of wanting to incinerate Russia.
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All the news I'm seeing, including vids, says the car was a white Renault, the same a couple of them arrived in. Also that it was stopped near Bryansk. Where did you get the info about a minibus and near Belarus?
He didn't say near Belarus he commented on the number plate you asked for info on the mini bis tha's what the link is
Hmmmm.... maybe we're at cross purposes? I was responding to this.
The four arrested were 16km from the border with Belarus, maybe the FSB arranged for them to escape through Belarus? Add that to the fact that the minibus in Moscow was claimed to have Ukraine number plates when in reality it had Belarus number plates and you have a common theme
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As most here seem to be confusing the US warning, it was published on 7th March and clearly states for the next 48 hours.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
As I said earlier, subsequently a planned attack on a synagogue was foiled.
One of the attackers was photographed reccying the theatre the next day.
The assumption is the US warning meant they had to delay their attack.
Some assumption. Or things going ahead as planned, under the US radar. Unlike the Synagogue plan that was foiled.
What?
You know this massive terrorist attrocity we're planning?
Maybe we'd better hang on a bit now they've warned everybody about it?...
It takes some believing, that.
I'm not saying it isn't possible but there was already an action that had been foiled that relates to the US warning. It's a guess that the Krokus attackers delayed, one of many scenarios. Splitting hairs over the use of assumption perhaps, but for me a valid assumption is more than a guess.
assumption - a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.
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Here's a geolocation of the capture that shows the location on the road heading south of Bryansk that is in the drection of Ukraine as opposed to Belarus.
I'm not saying this is certain proof, but does concur with what Russia has said. *If* it is true then it does raise serious questions.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/03/23/meduza-geolocates-arrest-video-of-moscow-terrorism-suspect-to-town-85-miles-from-ukrainian-border
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I see Putin has admitted the attack was carried out by radical Islamists.
That would rule Ukraine out since ISIS aren't going to be hired killers for an infidel government.
Putin of course still insists there is some link to Ukraine.
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It seems Turkey has raided a terrorist training camp in Istanbul making many arrests, possibly following info from Russia gleened from the gunmen about where they were trained.
It will be interesting to see where this goes ie info from those arrested about who they are connected with.
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I see Putin has admitted the attack was carried out by radical Islamists.
That would rule Ukraine out since ISIS aren't going to be hired killers for an infidel government.
Putin of course still insists there is some link to Ukraine.
Islamic radicals does not = ISIS.
But, it seems ISIS did get sent the vids from the shooting so it does implicate them as far as can be seen. If it was ISIS, we are talking about low class ISIS fighters, or more likely hired by ISIS based on how they behaved and that one mentioned the money he was paid.
ISIS could easily hire people as a low quality, cheap tactic, although the way this appears, the actions of the gunmen, the poor ISIS like quality of their behaviour, looks very bad on ISIS in such a high profile incident, so what gives there?
Interesting to note how many - the US, the west in general, western media, Viking Chat Forum users, are so insistant that Ukraine can't be involved. Why is this a default position? Jumping to conclusions immediately. I'm sure if your kids acted like this you'd be thinking they protesteth too much. The facts are far from having been uncovered yet.
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Now who is making wild assumptions?
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It's the default position because Ukraine has no tactical reason to engage in terror attacks on innocent civilians. Indeed such actions harm their cause.
From the moment this began they have insisted they are not involved.
IS on the other hand are motivated to terrorise civilians and regularly do.
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1) There is no way NATO would respond to a nuclear attack on Kyiv with a nuclear attack on Moscow. But they would stage a huge conventional attack on Russian forces (for example destroying the Black Sea fleet) and a massive, crippling cyber attack. America told Putin that back in 2022.
2) China would go berserk with Putin if he did seriously think about firing a nuke, for the reasons above.
3) Putin isn't a lunatic. He's a thug who punches down, but he's not shown any sign at all of wanting to incinerate Russia.
When Putin first attacked Ukraine there was a fascinating programme on where various experts discussed what may happen if Russia were attacked by NATO. In short, the vast majority of the Russian Army wouldn’t make it out of barracks as NATO would use its huge, and technically advanced, drones to attack and destroy them. Secondly, the Black Sea fleet would be destroyed by a combination of drone strikes and cruise missiles and thirdly, the whole nation would come to a complete and utter standstill following a huge cyber attack. Also, while Russia has thousands of Nuclear weapons, the experts were pretty clear that the majority of these are in a really bad state and incapable of being used. Compared to the NATO arsenal they’re Stone Age.
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Actually Russia is currently updating its nukes whereas the US isn't, and meanwhile the UK can't even get them in the air. Either way, a bunch of stone age nuke will still cause a whole lotta damage.
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It's the default position because Ukraine has no tactical reason to engage in terror attacks on innocent civilians. Indeed such actions harm their cause.
From the moment this began they have insisted they are not involved.
IS on the other hand are motivated to terrorise civilians and regularly do.
Ukraine has been firing multi launch rockets into Belgorod. Citizens there have been killed and injured, little in the way of military targets hit. Does that class as terror? The aim would be to make Russians think that the war isn't worth it. Similar with some attacks on Donetsk before Ukraine was pushed back out of Avdeevka. Terror attacks in Moscow would be attempts to destabilise the Russian government as well as giving struggling Ukraines on the frontline some sense of getting back at Russia.
As for not helping their case - think of Gaza and how Israel has and is acting, waaaay beyond the level of the terror at the Crocus, and if they had held back even a bit would be enjoying more support than they now are.
I already said how this is not your typical ISIS action.
Anyway, I don't know if Ukraine is involved or not, but it is notable how some people are rushing, prematurely, to claim Ukraine has no involvement, almost as if the country is run by angels rather than the gangsters. Yes, the same goes for Russia.
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Putin's problem is Russian citizens are generally disengaged with the war. They already think it's not worth it, or more likely prefer not to think about it at all. This is why Putin is finding another mobilisation difficult.
Why would Ukraine want to start motivating them to fight?
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4suspects in custody;
A contest is held between the FBI, MI5, & KGB to see who can find a cat fastest. The FBI agent returns with the cat in 4hrs. The MI5 agent in 3hrs. The KGB agent returns in 24hrs, but with a dog. "What happened," they ask, "and why a dog?" The dog shouts, "I'M A CAT! I'M A CAT!"
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I see Putin has admitted the attack was carried out by radical Islamists.
That would rule Ukraine out since ISIS aren't going to be hired killers for an infidel government.
Putin of course still insists there is some link to Ukraine.
Islamic radicals does not = ISIS.
But, it seems ISIS did get sent the vids from the shooting so it does implicate them as far as can be seen. If it was ISIS, we are talking about low class ISIS fighters, or more likely hired by ISIS based on how they behaved and that one mentioned the money he was paid.
ISIS could easily hire people as a low quality, cheap tactic, although the way this appears, the actions of the gunmen, the poor ISIS like quality of their behaviour, looks very bad on ISIS in such a high profile incident, so what gives there?
Interesting to note how many - the US, the west in general, western media, Viking Chat Forum users, are so insistant that Ukraine can't be involved. Why is this a default position? Jumping to conclusions immediately. I'm sure if your kids acted like this you'd be thinking they protesteth too much. The facts are far from having been uncovered yet.
Why is your beloved Russia’s default position to blame Ukraine, you sound as desperate as Putin to blame them
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I'm merely presenting a different view from the mainstream. I have no elites of Russia love, equally no elites of any country love, How about you?
What do you know, and what do you think happened?
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I would suggest that they KNOW as much as you but from different sources
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How strange is the photo taken from inside just prior to when the attack started. Numerous men scattered around the hall dressed alike showing no sign of interest and later no sign of panic when it did kick off, it is said
Makes you wonder
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
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Lukashenko says the terrorists were on their way to Belarus and Belarus blocked their entry and thats why the headed towards Ukraine, I bet Putin is fuming with him
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
Hound I dd say it was prior to the attack
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
Hound I dd say it was prior to the attack
JUST prior to when the attack started.
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Lukashenko says the terrorists were on their way to Belarus and Belarus blocked their entry and thats why the headed towards Ukraine, I bet Putin is fuming with him
There's a poster on here that will be too, as it doesn't fit in with the warped narrative we get from them.
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
Hound I dd say it was prior to the attack
JUST prior to when the attack started.
Crikey Hound talk about splitting hairs
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
Hound I dd say it was prior to the attack
JUST prior to when the attack started.
Crikey Hound talk about splitting hairs
Ha, I just read (I don’t mean just now of course ;-] )what you wrote Raven.
I have no idea how many people were supposed to be in the audience as I don’t visit this thread much.
Apologies if I have missed how busy it was in there.
How’s Devon anyway.
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How strange is the photo taken from inside just prior to when the attack started. Numerous men scattered around the hall dressed alike showing no sign of interest and later no sign of panic when it did kick off, it is said
Makes you wonder
Not sure I'd believe that photo. Something doesn't look right about those four figures. I wouldn't be surprised to find that's a not very sophisticated copy and paste job.
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There are.more photos Billy and video, even after the massacre all showing men in Blue tops and jeans, even one of the attackers is being marched away after capture by one of these blue clad chaps
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
Hound I dd say it was prior to the attack
JUST prior to when the attack started.
Crikey Hound talk about splitting hairs
Ha, I just read (I don’t mean just now of course ;-] )what you wrote Raven.
I have no idea how many people were supposed to be in the audience as I don’t visit this thread much.
Apologies if I have missed how busy it was in there.
How’s Devon anyway.
Wet and cold, we only made a break of it after having our snail shell serviced still under warranty from where we bought it in Poole
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That picture makes it look like a very sparse audience.
Hound I dd say it was prior to the attack
JUST prior to when the attack started.
Crikey Hound talk about splitting hairs
Ha, I just read (I don’t mean just now of course ;-] )what you wrote Raven.
I have no idea how many people were supposed to be in the audience as I don’t visit this thread much.
Apologies if I have missed how busy it was in there.
How’s Devon anyway.
Wet and cold, we only made a break of it after having our snail shell serviced still under warranty from where we bought it in Poole
At least you get to know that the heating system is working properly.
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More than I can say for the gas supply good job the heating is gas and electric, 4 days after service the bulkhead regulator decided to give up the ghost. As we are on our way back so we decided to have it sorted when we get home, Engineer booked.
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Truth coming out??
Russian state TV aired footage from the Crocus City Hall attack. They continued to insist that ISIS had nothing to do with it. Retired FSB General noted that in the future, the FSB will be accused of staging this attack, but no one should believe it.
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I don't recall Russia doubting ISIS carried out the attack, but they have said Ukraine was involved, even directed it. This isn't too much of a surprise as Ukraine has had numerous ISIS members and leaders living there over the years, and it seems to have ISIS fighters in their ranks. All I've seen are what appear to be Ukraine soldiers with ISIS patches on their uniforms, those images are from pro western filming so...
Ukraine is short of troops as it retreats east, so it's understandable that someone desperate like Zelensky would enlist anyone. However, this this isn't a recent phenomenon.
It may be this goes both ways with Russia reportedly using ISIS members to infiltrate Ukraine. Given the Afghan history and the current Russian involvement in Syria against the western supported jihadists, and Russia's links with Iran, it's surprising that ISIS would entertain anything pro Russian.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-leaders-ukraine-tukey-syria-caliphate-al-bara-shishani-a9211676.html
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-011933_EN.html
https://www.declassifieduk.org/pro-isis-fighter-in-ukraine-had-uk-missiles-and-boasted-of-sas-training/
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/4420
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/ukrainian-soldier-wearing-isis-patch-caught-on-danish-tv-new
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2023/02/16/2854520/ukrainian-commander-seen-wearing-daesh-patch-raises-concerns-of-extremist-links
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Truth coming out??
Russian state TV aired footage from the Crocus City Hall attack. They continued to insist that ISIS had nothing to do with it. Retired FSB General noted that in the future, the FSB will be accused of staging this attack, but no one should believe it.
Hmmmm. Then how do they explain at least one member of the audience that evening being one of the group of FSB agents who detained and tortured the suspects at the Belarus border the following day?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1772695603283190009
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Truth coming out??
Russian state TV aired footage from the Crocus City Hall attack. They continued to insist that ISIS had nothing to do with it. Retired FSB General noted that in the future, the FSB will be accused of staging this attack, but no one should believe it.
Hmmmm. Then how do they explain at least one member of the audience that evening being one of the group of FSB agents who detained and tortured the suspects at the Belarus border the following day?
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1772695603283190009
That’s been debunked Wilts see follow up tweet
https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1772894177136984417?s=46
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The FSB's stated aim is to turn the Internet against Western democracies and f**k so severely with our heads through misinformation that we don't know truth from fiction.
If this is any guide, they haven't got much competition from Bellingcat, who have done good work before, but who are away wi the fairies here.
https://x.com/christogrozev/status/1772803520581742758?s=20
They are trying to tell us that two pictures (which appear to have f**k all in common, other than that they both show human male faces with two eyes, a nose and a mouth) are a 97.9% match.
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The FSB's stated aim is to turn the Internet against Western democracies and f**k so severely with our heads through misinformation that we don't know truth from fiction.
If this is any guide, they haven't got much competition from Bellingcat, who have done good work before, but who are away wi the fairies here.
https://x.com/christogrozev/status/1772803520581742758?s=20
They are trying to tell us that two pictures (which appear to have f**k all in common, other than that they both show human male faces with two eyes, a nose and a mouth) are a 97.9% match.
2 stages of the 4 stages of ideological subversion outlined by ex-KGB agent Bezmenov in 1984 include:
Destabilization: Creating economic, political, and social instability.
Crisis: Heightening tensions and pushing the nation to a breaking point.
In the modern-day makes you wonder what certain narratives and culture war conflicts are pushed by bot-farms online that cause division in our society.
If the FSB/KGB can make more and more westerners not believe in western democratic values and distrust their institutions (see those who bang on about “elites” from either side) then they’re doing their job well.
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See how gullible people are? The two above I mean. Good job MI6, CIA, MOSSAD etc are for the people :lol: :laugh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Almost forgot, the SBU as well, obviously.
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The FSB's stated aim is to turn the Internet against Western democracies and f**k so severely with our heads through misinformation that we don't know truth from fiction.
If this is any guide, they haven't got much competition from Bellingcat, who have done good work before, but who are away wi the fairies here.
https://x.com/christogrozev/status/1772803520581742758?s=20 (https://x.com/christogrozev/status/1772803520581742758?s=20)
They are trying to tell us that two pictures (which appear to have f**k all in common, other than that they both show human male faces with two eyes, a nose and a mouth) are a 97.9% match.
2 stages of the 4 stages of ideological subversion outlined by ex-KGB agent Bezmenov in 1984 include:
Destabilization: Creating economic, political, and social instability.
Crisis: Heightening tensions and pushing the nation to a breaking point.
In the modern-day makes you wonder what certain narratives and culture war conflicts are pushed by bot-farms online that cause division in our society.
If the FSB/KGB can make more and more westerners not believe in western democratic values and distrust their institutions (see those who bang on about “elites” from either side) then they’re doing their job well.
There's one on here absolutely sucked in by them.
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See how gullible people are? The two above I mean. Good job MI6, CIA, MOSSAD etc are for the people :lol: :laugh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Almost forgot, the SBU as well, obviously.
In the words of John Lydon,
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated"?
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See how gullible people are? The two above I mean. Good job MI6, CIA, MOSSAD etc are for the people :lol: :laugh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Almost forgot, the SBU as well, obviously.
You carry on sticking up for the side that doesn’t believe in democracy, free speech, LGBT rights or the prosperity of you and your family whilst thinking there is some sort of equivalency.
Whatever makes you feel intellectually superior I guess.
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You both miss the point.
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See how gullible people are? The two above I mean. Good job MI6, CIA, MOSSAD etc are for the people :lol: :laugh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Almost forgot, the SBU as well, obviously.
In the words of John Lydon,
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated"?
Back at ya.