Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on May 06, 2024, 03:56:31 pm
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Open for sale to home fans. Sell out?
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Only place you can get a ticket when I just looked ,520 left in the north stand
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Hasn’t moved really since an hour ago, hopefully tomorrow morning will push the final load and it will be a sell out
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I Thought the Barrow game was loud but this will be off the scale.
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Hasn’t moved really since an hour ago, hopefully tomorrow morning will push the final load and it will be a sell out
you'll have to factor in the returns from Crewe, now - few more for Rovers fans :cool:
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Hasn’t moved really since an hour ago, hopefully tomorrow morning will push the final load and it will be a sell out
you'll have to factor in the returns from Crewe, now - few more for Rovers fans :cool:
not really, they will still be in the designated away end,
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Just 11 left
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9 in F13
7 in E45
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15 in F13 and 7 in E45 now. Maybe someone is out there frantically screwing on seat backs as we type :D
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Just 6 in F13 left. Nothing else! Amazing.
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Back up to 10 but all seats are in areas that were showing full earlier today
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1 ticket has appeared in W26
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1 ticket has appeared in W26
Someone just remembered Corrie is on and cancelled their booking! :laugh:
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Exciting this :D
There's obviously people holding them in their basket and then when they time out they're coming available. Mostly single tickets available spread out over the stand.
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Just 1 in E45
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SOLD OUT!
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Boom
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SOLD OUT!
Another seat back fixed in F13 :D
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Were the North Stand tickets available online or are people still queuing for those in person?
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Grant said pre-season in his first interview as manager “ I want to see the Keepmoat…, it’s not called that now is it, some things are difficult to forget (wry smile) the Eco Stadium. I want to see the place rocking again”.
You’ve certainly done that much Grant!
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What kind of crowd will be a sell out with lost seats and segregation? 13,500? 14,000 ?
Do we need a bigger stadium ?
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No, no we don't. It was never full when in Championship, we'd need to be in Luton's position before it's considered.
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Im sure many on here will be familiar with the Reynolds Arena built at Darlington.
Built way to big based on a fantasy scenario by a dodgy owner and never even remotely full.
Darlo fans hated it as it was an atmosphere killer.
More often than not, our ground is a bit too big for us, so no point in making it bigger for 1 game every few years.
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I’d say it’s perfectly sized for us, and includes some growth. We would need sustained top half championship seasons, and probably including a visit in the Prem to significantly grow beyond this ground.
Similar to what Barnsley achieved all those years ago.
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Last time we were in the Championship we were on average only 59pc full. I’m not sure we need to be troubling the architects any time soon.
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I’d say it’s perfectly sized for us, and includes some growth. We would need sustained top half championship seasons, and probably including a visit in the Prem to significantly grow beyond this ground.
Similar to what Barnsley achieved all those years ago.
There's pins in the structure for extending it.
You either know or you don't.
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When you say that, BST, is that to extend out, as well as up?
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I’d say it’s perfectly sized for us, and includes some growth. We would need sustained top half championship seasons, and probably including a visit in the Prem to significantly grow beyond this ground.
Similar to what Barnsley achieved all those years ago.
There's pins in the structure for extending it.
You either know or you don't.
And around the outside of the ground I seem to remember. To add an additional tier on
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I always thought these “pins” were a myth, whatever they are
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I thought when they cut the cost of the stadium down, the potential to extend the stadium was cut ?
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For my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.
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Surely any expansion should be increasing the South Stand higher, not with a tier but just straight up. Give it a few years and we'll have our own red version of Dortmund's yellow wall :scarf:
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For my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.
The pins are a myth. There's no hidden footings beyond the current permiter.
The design which was very much similar to the KC stadium, would indeed have had two tiers on one side, with scope to add a second tier on the opposite side.
Unfortunately, due to delays including 'Greater crested newt gate', the costs for steel had risen significantly, so the choice was to either go back to the council cabinet to seek approval for the additional costs (Not certain that would have been approved) or take the original budget and compromise on the build, so we ended up going back to the architects to redesign to what we have now. I think the original capacity was around 18,500 with scope to increase to around 21,000.
The footings for the current stadium are different to what the original would have been, so no provision was made for expansion. Yes, we could expand it, but like anything else, it's at what cost.
Being totally honest, hindsight has proven the stadium we ended up with has suited us better with more modest capacity whilst still giving us access to other showcase matches and events.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
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Our section of the North stand is fully sold out as of about 40 mins ago.
Don’t know how much segregation there is but it should be over 14.000 gate. Possibly 14.500 assuming Crewe have sold all their 1.589 seats, which they may not have?
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
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I always thought these “pins” were a myth, whatever they are
You either know or you don't...
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Seriously, the whole "pins" thing was a laugh years ago.
If it ever came to it, it would be relatively easy to put a second tier above and behind any of the existing stands. The columns at the back of the existing seating area would then be taking a much higher load than now. If sufficient capacity was built into those columns when the ground was first built, it would be very easy. If that allowance hadn't been made, it would be a bit trickier, but still quite doable. That's miles away from being needed though. We'd have to be an established top half Championship side before it even can on the agenda.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
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#safestanding
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#safestanding
But it’s not clear cut as to whether safe standing increases capacity. Yes, it hopefully would do, but not necessarily. It certainly doesn’t mean just take out seats, have some nice rails but have free for all terracing like the ‘80s.
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Have we sold blocks N41 and N40?
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an average is just that - there will be times when we get above average gates. We've had 14000 plus several times, so even if the average is just over 10K, there is evidence we can exceed 12K, just not every week.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
08/09 was 11964
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#safestanding
But it’s not clear cut as to whether safe standing increases capacity. Yes, it hopefully would do, but not necessarily.
But it would generate a real buzz and atmosphere and be the place where most people want to go.
I hate sitting down to watch football and very rarely do but safe standing would give a more authentic terracing vibe that us oldies used to have.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
The world has changed a lot since then - unquestionably more and more people are disillusioned by top level football, Sky etc,etc.
You only have to look at attendances across League 1,2 and now National leagues to see this - and our own recent run has seen an increase in our gates I haven't seen since the sixties when they all said - "Rovers only need 3 wins to get 10,000 "
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
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It does feel a bit different this time for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on, and it's not just because we're doing well.
There seems to be a genuine ground swell of interest in the club across the city.
I feel were going to see attendances increasing quite regularly.
Whether that justifies expanding the stadium, time will tell.
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Our section of the North stand is fully sold out as of about 40 mins ago.
Don’t know how much segregation there is but it should be over 14.000 gate. Possibly 14.500 assuming Crewe have sold all their 1.589 seats, which they may not have?
Ok Let's try and work this out. Max capacity is 14978 I think.
We lose a couple of hundred in the South to facilitate unreserved seating.
We lose a chunk for segregation.
Crewe are in an area of the North that can accommodate @ 2,200 so that's 600 empty although some of that might be the buffer zone for segregation. Call it 300 for segregation then plus the other block with the seat backs missing @250?
I reckon 1,100 short of capacity so 13878 of which 1589 Crewe = 12,289 Rovers fans!!
Can we be louder than the Barrow game?
Have I missed owt?
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
08/09 was 11964
That’s correct, it was 11,964.
Even though that was for several months a very poor season, and we ended in a lower position than the next season, being back at that level for first time in 50 years probably inflated gates artificially. The following season 09/10 was a better one in terms of points and league placing and we had Billy Sharp, yet gates dropped off by 1,000.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
True, but we had the relative misfortune of hitting our high point just as the world hit the worst recession in 80 years. I'm sure that limited our potential crowds to some extent.
The current fervour suggests our potential crowds are perhaps a bit higher these days.
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Maybe. We had 13,081 for the Southend game. See if we beat that.
Doubt we will have any issue beating Charlton home leg of 11,140.
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#safestanding
But it’s not clear cut as to whether safe standing increases capacity. Yes, it hopefully would do, but not necessarily.
But it would generate a real buzz and atmosphere and be the place where most people want to go.
I hate sitting down to watch football and very rarely do but safe standing would give a more authentic terracing vibe that us oldies used to have.
What we mustn't forget is it's still a multi purpose stadium, and there would have to be alot of thought about this before taking out any traditional seating, even before considering the cost to install them. For the relatively little we would gain, I expect you'd rather see that money spent elsewhere.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
08/09 was 11964
That’s correct, it was 11,964.
Even though that was for several months a very poor season, and we ended in a lower position than the next season, being back at that level for first time in 50 years probably inflated gates artificially. The following season 09/10 was a better one in terms of points and league placing and we had Billy Sharp, yet gates dropped off by 1,000.
The novelty factor of the new stadium wore off, then the prices increased paying up to £28 for West £25 in South? Then of course struggling in the league with Mr Dickov post SO'D.
Still, these were much higher averages than we'd seen for decades.
I really thought there would be a boost in attendances post Covid, with folk just glad to get to games again but alas, the footy wasn't really up to it.
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Something else to bear in mind.
When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.
We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.
Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.
I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.
Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.
This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now.
I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week.
Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
08/09 was 11964
That’s correct, it was 11,964.
Even though that was for several months a very poor season, and we ended in a lower position than the next season, being back at that level for first time in 50 years probably inflated gates artificially. The following season 09/10 was a better one in terms of points and league placing and we had Billy Sharp, yet gates dropped off by 1,000.
The novelty factor of the new stadium wore off, then the prices increased paying up to £28 for West £25 in South? Then of course struggling in the league with Mr Dickov post SO'D.
Still, these were much higher averages than we'd seen for decades.
I really thought there would be a boost in attendances post Covid, with folk just glad to get to games again but alas, the footy wasn't really up to it.
But the novelty DIDN'T wear off.
We averaged more in 17/18, 18/19 and 3/4s of 19/20 than we did when we went up in 08/09.
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The fact we're going to be comfortably beating the Charlton home leg attendance is pretty interesting. That was a semi final in the division above against a much bigger club.
Has the fan base grown over the last 5 years? I do agree though there seems to be a real buzz about it at the minute. It's great. Keep McCann and we could be in for an exciting rise.
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Seriously, the whole "pins" thing was a laugh years ago.
If it ever came to it, it would be relatively easy to put a second tier above and behind any of the existing stands. The columns at the back of the existing seating area would then be taking a much higher load than now. If sufficient capacity was built into those columns when the ground was first built, it would be very easy. If that allowance hadn't been made, it would be a bit trickier, but still quite doable. That's miles away from being needed though. We'd have to be an established top half Championship side before it even can on the agenda.
Would it though? Depends on the pile and foundation spec of the existing structure.
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This might be a theory rather than fact but it feels like the conscious decision to hammer down on season ticket prices has increased our hearing towards season tickets. That helps stem support losses when we are shit. I think we now have 4,500 to 5,000 season tickets? That would have been way more than in 03/04 and possibly in Championship years? We’ve basically made it very cheap to attend if you buy one.
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Something else to bear in mind.
When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.
We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.
Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.
I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.
Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.
This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now.
I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week.
Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.
I actually think a big reason for the higher attendances is GM.
He will often talk about the fans, whether it's us playing our part in helping the team with atmosphere, thanking fans for travelling loads of miles or wanting send fans home with smiles on their faces.
I've never known a Rovers manager speak like he does about the fans. He's not daft, I think he knows exactly what he's doing but I also think that he totally gets us and our recent history and fall from grace.
I felt the positive shift away at Hull very early in the season.
I am not being dramatic here when I say this but Mr TB and Gavin have got to capitalise on this and give this talented manager the tools he needs to keep growing the club. Strike while the iron is hot.
It feels almost like the Pied Piper with GM, talking with other fans over the season at games it's very clear that he is 100% loved. I hope the feeling is mutual because this guy will get us to the championship sooner than later.
It's just a question of will the boards ambition match his?
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Something else to bear in mind.
When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.
We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.
Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.
I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.
Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.
This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now.
I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week.
Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.
Agree with most of that BST with the exception of Stockports following this season
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It does feel a bit different this time for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on, and it's not just because we're doing well.
There seems to be a genuine ground swell of interest in the club across the city.
I feel were going to see attendances increasing quite regularly.
Whether that justifies expanding the stadium, time will tell.
Yep Gavin and TB have done a cracking job that is now bearing fruit on the pitch
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For my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.
The pins are a myth. There's no hidden footings beyond the current permiter.
The design which was very much similar to the KC stadium, would indeed have had two tiers on one side, with scope to add a second tier on the opposite side.
Unfortunately, due to delays including 'Greater crested newt gate', the costs for steel had risen significantly, so the choice was to either go back to the council cabinet to seek approval for the additional costs (Not certain that would have been approved) or take the original budget and compromise on the build, so we ended up going back to the architects to redesign to what we have now. I think the original capacity was around 18,500 with scope to increase to around 21,000.
The footings for the current stadium are different to what the original would have been, so no provision was made for expansion. Yes, we could expand it, but like anything else, it's at what cost.
Being totally honest, hindsight has proven the stadium we ended up with has suited us better with more modest capacity whilst still giving us access to other showcase matches and events.
I didn't mention anything about pins, I'm stating what the construction sign said outside the ground when it was being built, it said expandable to 20,000.
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They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500.
Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:
2008/9 - ave gates of 10,964
2009/10 - ave gates of 10,992
2010/11 - ave gates of 10,258
2011/12 - ave gates of 9,341
2013/14 - ave gates of 9,110
Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
08/09 was 11964
That’s correct, it was 11,964.
Even though that was for several months a very poor season, and we ended in a lower position than the next season, being back at that level for first time in 50 years probably inflated gates artificially. The following season 09/10 was a better one in terms of points and league placing and we had Billy Sharp, yet gates dropped off by 1,000.
There was a jump in the cost of match tickets, and we sold Mills and wellens, that was the biggest factor in the drop off.
The fan base is ALOT bigger now.
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For my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.
The pins are a myth. There's no hidden footings beyond the current permiter.
The design which was very much similar to the KC stadium, would indeed have had two tiers on one side, with scope to add a second tier on the opposite side.
Unfortunately, due to delays including 'Greater crested newt gate', the costs for steel had risen significantly, so the choice was to either go back to the council cabinet to seek approval for the additional costs (Not certain that would have been approved) or take the original budget and compromise on the build, so we ended up going back to the architects to redesign to what we have now. I think the original capacity was around 18,500 with scope to increase to around 21,000.
The footings for the current stadium are different to what the original would have been, so no provision was made for expansion. Yes, we could expand it, but like anything else, it's at what cost.
Being totally honest, hindsight has proven the stadium we ended up with has suited us better with more modest capacity whilst still giving us access to other showcase matches and events.
I didn't mention anything about pins, I'm stating what the construction sign said outside the ground when it was being built, it said expandable to 20,000.
I know you didn't, I was referring to earlier comments in the thread and, I was agreeing with you about the original design being expandable.
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Our section of the North stand is fully sold out as of about 40 mins ago.
Don’t know how much segregation there is but it should be over 14.000 gate. Possibly 14.500 assuming Crewe have sold all their 1.589 seats, which they may not have?
Ok Let's try and work this out. Max capacity is 14978 I think.
We lose a couple of hundred in the South to facilitate unreserved seating.
We lose a chunk for segregation.
Crewe are in an area of the North that can accommodate @ 2,200 so that's 600 empty although some of that might be the buffer zone for segregation. Call it 300 for segregation then plus the other block with the seat backs missing @250?
I reckon 1,100 short of capacity so 13878 of which 1589 Crewe = 12,289 Rovers fans!!
Can we be louder than the Barrow game?
Have I missed owt?
think capacity is way below that now with segregation either side and the loss of seats when we put the scoreboard in,even the south stand o believe can’t be south out with it being unreserved seating,I’m guessing at just over 14,000 mark plus I don’t think Crewe will sell out,I’m going for 13,600
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We might as well bin the screen off and put the seats back. It hasn’t worked properly for ages
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Still works for advertising.
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Which screen doesn’t work? The big one?? It does doesn’t it? Or are you on about for replays?
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The fact we're going to be comfortably beating the Charlton home leg attendance is pretty interesting. That was a semi final in the division above against a much bigger club.
Has the fan base grown over the last 5 years? I do agree though there seems to be a real buzz about it at the minute. It's great. Keep McCann and we could be in for an exciting rise.
Think it's the recent form that's doing it. In that season we were inconsistent towards the end, the same as Crewe this season who struggled selling tickets for their home game and are struggling to sell a couple thousand for the away game.
The only other explanation now is that we're just MASSIVE.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
-
Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
A proper safe standing setup is very expensive. Manchester City were going to implement it on their new north stand development but scrapped it due to lack of demand.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
A proper safe standing setup is very expensive. Manchester City were going to implement it on their new north stand development but scrapped it due to lack of demand.
Yes, I'm aware of the costs. But it is happening in most new developments in the larger EPL and Championship grounds. However the cheaper option, as I mentioned, is just to add rails to the existing seating areas. That's what Burnley have done to great effect whereas Liverpool are bringing in fully fledged rail seats, same as Spurs, and the same for Everton in their new stadium.
When building anew the cost isn't that much greater, but if renewing or renovating then it can be prohibitive.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
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Which screen doesn’t work? The big one?? It does doesn’t it? Or are you on about for replays?
Yeah doesn’t show replays or highlights. I know it still advertises things, but surely its main purpose is to provide replays of key events to the fans. What’s the point of having it otherwise?
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Doesn’t show highlights or replays. Loads and loads of adverts though!
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Which screen doesn’t work? The big one?? It does doesn’t it? Or are you on about for replays?
Yeah doesn’t show replays or highlights. I know it still advertises things, but surely its main purpose is to provide replays of key events to the fans. What’s the point of having it otherwise?
Revenue from those who pay to advertise on it probably
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Which screen doesn’t work? The big one?? It does doesn’t it? Or are you on about for replays?
Yeah doesn’t show replays or highlights. I know it still advertises things, but surely its main purpose is to provide replays of key events to the fans. What’s the point of having it otherwise?
Surely you've answered your own question? Advertising.
It's an income stream (or at least you'd expect it to be). Getting rid of it and replacing it with more seats only makes sense if the club makes more money from the ticket sales of those seats than it does charging for advertising space on the screen....and realistically...if we were selling out every week to even be able to justify that point (needing more seats) then chances are the advertising rates would be higher anyway because of the increased attendances.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.
I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
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Doesn’t show highlights or replays. Loads and loads of adverts though!
surely... if you can project an advert onto there that works?, you can project a 10 second goal highlight video?.. unless its the video editing euipment/team, that are the issue, not the screen??
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No idea, but if you want to focus attention on the adverts, the only time people look at the screen is when the replays are shown. So maybe show the replays…
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.
I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
I'm not going to indulge you again BST.
The Safe Standing campaign was full of very educated and knowledgable people which was a pleasure to lead. The architects were Populous, who went on to design the new Tottenham stadium. We had major relationships with all the German manufacturers of rail seats. We had a major partnership with the SGSA who write this stuff for all sporting stadia in the UK and overseas. We didn't make it up on the back of a fag packet!
And I did send you the calculations, for some reason you never acknowledged it. You'll have to forgive me but I'm more inclined to believe the people I worked with rather than your hunches. I'll accept one point though, ingress and egress matters, but the 0.7 factor is a maximum as we've always stressed.
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Nope. I never received any calculations to my knowledge.
I absolutely agree that the 70% uplift is an upper bound. My apologies if you've been clear on that before. You weren't a few posts up from here.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.
I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
Then there’s the infrastructure toilets, catering etc. it won’t happen in our life time will it.
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I think our infrastructure is probably way above the minimum when compared with others.
BUT, we don't need more capacity and probably won't unless we get to the big league. I'd love to see it just for the atmosphere it creates.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.
I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
Then there’s the infrastructure toilets, catering etc. it won’t happen in our life time will it.
I'm sure there'd be some extra capacity if we went to safe standing. I've just always doubted it would be anywhere close to 70% extra, without major reworking of the rest of the infrastructure.
On the different topic of extending a stand, you'd build in the extra toilets, ingress/egress etc into the new structure. And I agree with your earlier point about the foundations of the existing stands which may or may not be suitable for an extension. But it wouldn't be the hardest job in the world to put in new foundations or extend the existing ones.
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On tours of the ground you're told the expansion can happen in the voids behind the back of the North and South stands. The corrugated metal sheet, where flags and advertising hang, hides the steels that hold the concrete for the seats. A few extra rows can be added there.
Is this true?
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Seems like an odd thing to bullshit about on a stadium tour.
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On tours of the ground you're told the expansion can happen in the voids behind the back of the North and South stands. The corrugated metal sheet, where flags and advertising hang, hides the steels that hold the concrete for the seats. A few extra rows can be added there.
Is this true?
Sounds like total b*llocks to me, but what do I know
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
Quite a big increase then.
I hope the club would consider it if we keep selling out the south stand.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.
I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
Then there’s the infrastructure toilets, catering etc. it won’t happen in our life time will it.
To justify that kind of investment and disruption, the club is going to want to see a few seasons of high demand which consistently cannot be satisfied in the current stadium. We’ve been there almost two decades and this has never remotely been the case.
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On tours of the ground you're told the expansion can happen in the voids behind the back of the North and South stands. The corrugated metal sheet, where flags and advertising hang, hides the steels that hold the concrete for the seats. A few extra rows can be added there.
Is this true?
To be fair, I'm sure I heard the same on a stadium tour.
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At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked
“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”
His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
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At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked
“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”
His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
To be honest he wouldn’t have known as all the requirements to introduce SS into the UK market were developed many years down the line.
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Would safe standing actually increase the capacity of the SS though? My understanding is that rail
Seating still uses the same space as a seat ?
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At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked
“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”
His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
It would be ok if part of the south was safe standing and I seem to think that has been or is being looked at.
However there are also lots of people in there who need to be able to sit down most of the time.
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We might as well bin the screen off and put the seats back. It hasn’t worked properly for ages
I reckon the big screen acts as the fifth floodlight. Where i sit every time it changes colour it's like someone has just turned the lights on.
I'm sure i saw an old lad starting to shake last time it happened, talk about being caught in a spotlight.
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It does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.
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Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Yes you could.
But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.
You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.
If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ?
Sorry if I'm being daft.
I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.
I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
Could the capacity also be increased by adding a few extra rows of concrete terracing (to take seats) to the back of the existing stands all the way around the rear perimeter , a bit like what Sunderland did at the stadium of light.
I sit at the back of the stand and i've always thought you could add another few rows of terrace between the back steel frame, it would obviously require more supporting steelwork but this would be all in the void behind the current back wall. So the external frame would not require altering.
The viewing sight lines for the seats nearest the steel frame would not be the best but that would be factored into seat prices.
I haven't done the maths but three extra rows (no room for anyone over 2mts tall !)around most of the back perimeter wall could add a couple of thousand extra seats, i would say at not a massive outlay.
Or am i just talking nonsense!
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It does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.
Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort :)
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Would safe standing actually increase the capacity of the SS though? My understanding is that rail
Seating still uses the same space as a seat ?
You need to scroll back and see what I’ve written previously on this subject.
-
At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked
“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”
His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
Yes using today’s technology.
However at that point it wasn’t legal, therefore I can’t understand any architect saying it would be easy when there were no regulations applicable nor examples to refer to.
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On tours of the ground you're told the expansion can happen in the voids behind the back of the North and South stands. The corrugated metal sheet, where flags and advertising hang, hides the steels that hold the concrete for the seats. A few extra rows can be added there.
Is this true?
Sorry mate i didnt see your post when i posted mine further down the thread.
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At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked
“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”
His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
Yes using today’s technology.
However at that point it wasn’t legal, therefore I can’t understand any architect saying it would be easy when there were no regulations applicable nor examples to refer to.
Maybe it was a "in principle it could be relatively easy depending on details, if and when etc, etc". Any professional in the game even back then would have known that the technical solutions for the seating area in isolation weren't hard.
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At a Q & A session with the lead construction architect during the building of the Keepmoat I asked
“How technically difficult would it be to introduce safe standing for eg the South Stand? And how much would it cost?”
His reply “not difficult at all - relatively inexpensive”
It WOULD be relatively easy to introduce it if you kept the capacity the same.
Yes using today’s technology.
However at that point it wasn’t legal, therefore I can’t understand any architect saying it would be easy when there were no regulations applicable nor examples to refer to.
Maybe it was a "in principle it could be relatively easy depending on details, if and when etc, etc". Any professional in the game even back then would have known that the technical solutions for the seating area in isolation weren't hard.
If you say so.
But a further complication for DRFC would be that they accepted funding from the Football Foundation, a couple of million or more if memory serves.
That would have to be repaid before any discussions could take place and was quite obviously prohibitive. It was a factor that had to be included for new stadiums at the time.
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Im not sure why you have to be so spiky on this issue. I've no idea what that architect may or may not have said. I'm simply musing on a fact that I'd have thought you'd have agreed on.
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If we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back.
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If we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back.
Not absolutely necessarily. An extra tier could fit above the concourse, and wouldn't necessarily require new structure down to ground level outside the footprint of the existing stadium.
Ingress and egress to an upper tier might be a challenge to fit in within the existing footprint, mind.
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It does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.
Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort :)
Yep. I'm that t**t just down from you...
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If we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back.
Not absolutely necessarily. An extra tier could fit above the concourse, and wouldn't necessarily require new structure down to ground level outside the footprint of the existing stadium.
Ingress and egress to an upper tier might be a challenge to fit in within the existing footprint, mind.
Very very unlikely they would be able to add another tier without putting in extra piles in that road and building out.
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If we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back.
Not absolutely necessarily. An extra tier could fit above the concourse, and wouldn't necessarily require new structure down to ground level outside the footprint of the existing stadium.
Ingress and egress to an upper tier might be a challenge to fit in within the existing footprint, mind.
Very very unlikely they would be able to add another tier without putting in extra piles in that road and building out.
The back wall of the last row in the stands isn't the back of the stadium. The structure goes back almost ten meters. I.e the south stand club offices are behind the back row, but not directly behind, more beneath the back row.
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If we put on an extra tier we would lose some of the road around the ground in that area. Sure there would be room to move it further back.
Not absolutely necessarily. An extra tier could fit above the concourse, and wouldn't necessarily require new structure down to ground level outside the footprint of the existing stadium.
Ingress and egress to an upper tier might be a challenge to fit in within the existing footprint, mind.
Very very unlikely they would be able to add another tier without putting in extra piles in that road and building out.
I disagree for the West Stand at least (haven't been in the others much). There's (at a guess) 12-14m between the current back row of seats and the outer wall of the concourse. You could place a new upper tier above that concourse with maybe 12-16 rows of seats without extending outside the footprint of the concourse. Would probably get you another 2500 seats in total. Whether that would make economic sense or whether you'd be better building a lot more capacity by extending backwards is another matter.
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What about the option to dig down and put in three to four extra rows of seating all the way around the ground.
This would get fans closer to the action and be in top of the game more. A bit like at Rotherham.
There is the space to do this easily.
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All this talk of extra tiers is all well and good, but it will never happen until such time as rovers consistently sell out matches, and it could be proven that there is extra demand to support enlargement. And even then, it would require huge investment to make it happen.
An owner with very very deep pockets, happy to spend millions knowing they wouldn’t get it back. Unless rovers ever made the prem of course.
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Something else to bear in mind.
When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.
We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.
Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.
I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.
Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.
This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now.
I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week.
Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.
Agree with most of that BST with the exception of Stockports following this season
Fair point.
To be honest, I wasn't in the ground long enough to focus on the away end that day.
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What about the option to dig down and put in three to four extra rows of seating all the way around the ground.
This would get fans closer to the action and be in top of the game more. A bit like at Rotherham.
There is the space to do this easily.
It would certainly get the fans closer to the action, the trouble is though it would probably be water polo.
Have you seen the water table level around the ground, go any deeper and we might even start to incorporate the lake into the stadium!!
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It does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.
Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort :)
Yep. I'm that t**t just down from you...
Yep, but the trouble is there are a few just down from me, they all look like your avatar!
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It does feel like you are kebab meat when it goes red, and I'm sat 40 yards from it.
Bloody Hell BST, you sound far too close for comfort :)
Yep. I'm that t**t just down from you...
Yep, but the trouble is there are a few just down from me, they all look like your avatar!
I like to blend in.
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Always think how good the stadium would look if it looked like this.
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Often think how good it would have been to have got the original design built. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent stadium for our level, but the one that should have been built looked a step above. Shame really.
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...lick of paint for OBV, another layer of portakabins, fences back on the Rosso end and a more accessible bar/lounge for the mainstand paddock - would have done us proud for another few decades... ;)
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Often think how good it would have been to have got the original design built. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent stadium for our level, but the one that should have been built looked a step above. Shame really.
Very much so. It would have looked stunning although, in perspective, I love the current stadium too.
We often hear from a few, saying they are embarrassed to see empty seats on the east on TV, well maybe also having a closed upper tier (as a number of clubs do) would only make them feel worse.
I note what some have said about possible expansion within the current footprint. Forget it, that would just be an expensive fudge, requiring more engineering than the return for relatively small number of seats.
If expansion ever became necessary, then it would have to be done properly and I would say gaining a minimum of 5000 seats (bear in mind that upper tier in that mock up would hold probably less than 3000)
From what I hear, Wrexhams proposed new 5000 seater stand, will cost a 'big chunk' of a £25m grant to redevelop that end of the Racecourse, so construction projects are costing a fortune at the mo. Would or should Donny council be investing more money in it? What more community value would it gain?
I'm pretty sure it would have to be private money, at least £20m but from where?
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It’s a good point, Baz. I mean the cost to expand it would be similar to the original build cost for the whole original stadium.
I can see no way how that kind of investment would ever be justified. Certainly not in my lifetime I would have thought.
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Man City did that, but they had the width of a running track to create a lower tier.
The cost to create 3 or 4 rows of seats lower would be massive against any potential gain
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Yes, and I'll take that noise from the Barrow game, hoping it's matched on Friday so let's not forget, it's not the stadium but the people in it that create the atmosphere and as cbcb says, we want to get attendances nearer 80% of capacity more regularly first. Nice to dream though and who knows the next generations might make it happen.
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Man City did that, but they had the width of a running track to create a lower tier.
The cost to create 3 or 4 rows of seats lower would be massive against any potential gain
That stadium was also built with that redevelopment already in factored in, as it was always planned to be redesigned for Man City after the CWG. Probably what should have occurred with the London stadium, but it wasn’t built with that in mind. Building this way when it’s not planned for in advance also impacts sight lines and creates a very shallow raking (somebody mentioned Rotherham’s stadium, but this was built very differently to the KMS due to the physical space available to fit the stadium into, hence a much steeper rake (the maximum allowed in regulation in the UK I believe) and the smaller concourse areas).
The way they I see it from what I know about engineering is that to expand the KMS, best case scenario would mean an additional tier on the top of the east/west (increasing the footprint outwards), which would include a significant alteration to the existing roof structure and existing internal infrastructure.
Worst case scenario would entail a whole rebuild of that particular stand. I wouldn’t rule this out as the only option to expand it.
Either way, it’s a whole load of dough we don’t have.
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Man City did that, but they had the width of a running track to create a lower tier.
The cost to create 3 or 4 rows of seats lower would be massive against any potential gain
That stadium was also built with that redevelopment already in factored in, as it was always planned to be redesigned for Man City after the CWG. Probably what should have occurred with the London stadium, but it wasn’t built with that in mind. Building this way when it’s not planned for in advance also impacts sight lines and creates a very shallow raking (somebody mentioned Rotherham’s stadium, but this was built very differently to the KMS due to the physical space available to fit the stadium into, hence a much steeper rake (the maximum allowed in regulation in the UK I believe) and the smaller concourse areas).
The way they I see it from what I know about engineering is that to expand the KMS, best case scenario would mean an additional tier on the top of the east/west (increasing the footprint outwards), which would include a significant alteration to the existing roof structure and existing internal infrastructure.
Worst case scenario would entail a whole rebuild of that particular stand. I wouldn’t rule this out as the only option to expand it.
Either way, it’s a whole load of dough we don’t have.
Absolutely and you've just reminded me of Cardiffs new stadium expansion and I read this...
"In August 2013 the club announced it had submitted a planning application to the local authority for the first phase of a stadium expansion.[43] Phase 1 will entail adding a second tier to the Ninian Stand increasing the capacity to approximately 33,280. 5,150 extra seats are to be provided, including extra commercial and hospitality facilities catering for around 1500. [citation needed]
On 9 October 2013 the local authority granted planning permission for this first phase.[44] The stadium expansion was completed at the beginning of August, a few weeks before the stadium was due to host the UEFA Super Cup. At a later stage, phases 2 and 3 of the development will see up to 3,000 seats added to both the Canton and Grange ends of the ground, bringing the overall capacity up to around 38,000. [citation needed]
However, in March 2015, it was announced that the Ninian Stand extension was to be shut for the 2015–16 season due to poor ticket sales, dropping the capacity to 27,978.[45]"
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It's not a comparatively small stadium - five clubs in Prem / Champ have smaller / similar stadiums.
Bournemouth - 11,307
Luton - 11,850
Rotherham - 12,021
Brentford - 17,250
Plymouth - 17,900
In League 1 this year we'd have the 11th biggest stadium. Cosy but regularly full is surely better than big but often empty.
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Let's be realistic, expansion would only be a requirement and a realistic possibility if we were in the Premier League for a sustained period of time. Even then, TV revenue would dwarf ticket revenue so much that it would quite possibly be deemed not worth the investment.
Bournemouth haven't bothered to expand their ground even though they've spent quite a bit of their recent history in the Prem. I don't know the ins and outs of why that is but you'd imagine investing in the squad and staying there probably gives them a better return than expanding the ground.
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Despite the odd game recently where we’ve had decent gates and the singular example of the second leg in the play offs, people are getting very carried away. Again, we got absolutely nowhere near being regularly at capacity during our five fairly recent seasons in the Championship. Our ground is the right size for our support.
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My idea of a financial model god forbid we ever did reach the premier league. That season, only sign players willing to take PL wages for one season, or on loan. Bear in mind a good few years ago the team finishing bottom was guaranteed £120 million at least, so it would be more now.
Then assuming instant relegation, use what’s left of the revenue (half maybe?) to expand the stadium whilst maintaining a competitive championship squad.
I’m not talking stupid growth in capacity, maybe 5-7000 extra seats possibly with some safe standing.
That should then suffice should we ever go up again.
That’s a long way ahead in reality though, if ever. Mind you, that season Blackpool went up, we were only a couple of points behind them when we played them (and lost) near-ish Easter. So it could happen.
Ultimately however I see our stadium as ideally sized for the foreseeable future.
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Any pics of the original design anyone ???
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Original was more like a Reebok, KC stadium kind of feel. I somehow like the design that ended up
(https://i.imgur.com/DvgSymM.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/hCrxK9x.jpeg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/fJFslGg.jpeg)
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Any pics of the original design anyone ???
Can remember getting a disk from the club with it on, will try and excavate it.
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I think these were the first mock-ups circulated, but I distinctly remember there was an initial idea even before this where the capacity would be 10k/12k. I was in one of those early fan consultation meetings and it was clear most fans thought that wouldn't big enough.
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Just think 1000 more in the black bank would do for now.
Surely fairly easy to do, given the false wall at the back of the stand ?
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Original was more like a Reebok, KC stadium kind of feel. I somehow like the design that ended up
(https://i.imgur.com/DvgSymM.gif)
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(https://i.imgur.com/hCrxK9x.jpeg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/fJFslGg.jpeg)
Shame it never got built.
It was a near 25k stadium that would have been downsized to accommodate a reduced capacity (false walls ect) with the easier potential to expand if we ever hit the jackpot.
When you think of the initial cost increases/price of steel/newts at the time, if that had not been the case any future expansion would of been very manageable cost wise. Obviously now its a moot subject as the outlay now is not feasible on a cost benefit analysis.
Unless we just keep on winning, then the sky is the limit :)
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(https://i.imgur.com/fJFslGg.jpeg)
this would have been so much better than what we ended up with; must admit, I absolutely despise the keepmoat - it's the fact that to all intents and purposes it has the same profile/section right the way around - gives it the impression of being the absolute cheapest option available at the time, and diminishes the 'tribal' element of having distinct stands which was so integral to OBV and many other 'traditional' grounds - but them i'm just a miserable old git, and I'm sure that many folk are more than happy with what we have and quite rightly so - it does the job, albeit in a rather soulless way...
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(https://i.imgur.com/fJFslGg.jpeg)
this would have been so much better than what we ended up with; must admit, I absolutely despise the keepmoat - it's the fact that to all intents and purposes it has the same profile/section right the way around - gives it the impression of being the absolute cheapest option available at the time, and diminishes the 'tribal' element of having distinct stands which was so integral to OBV and many other 'traditional' grounds - but them i'm just a miserable old git, and I'm sure that many folk are more than happy with what we have and quite rightly so - it does the job, albeit in a rather soulless way...
Felt like that for years until the south stand went unreserved.
I can now stand with like minded people and have forged new friendships because of it.
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Reminder that the club paid zero (£0) to obtain a brand new, modern stadium that not only doubled capacity but also landed us a material revenue stream. Yes we pay some modest rent but a nigh on 100 year lease with total security, all paid for by the tax payers of Doncaster and whoever built the housing development on Belle Vue. It’s been an absolutely amazing deal for us but if you are a non-Rover who pays council tax in our city, you’d think the club had robbed them.
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Except, very rarely as in this Friday, the South Stand is never completely full. Why would you want to expand it?
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Except, very rarely as in this Friday, the South Stand is never completely full. Why would you want to expand it?
Not that rare though, 3rd or 4th time this season ?
Going forward, I suspect it will be alot more regular.
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I think you a sadly mistaken there, there are always empty seats around the edges and at the front
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I think you a sadly mistaken there, there are always empty seats around the edges and at the front
Pretty sure that's, in part at least, due to the fact they had to reduce capacity when the decision was made to make it unresereved seating. They didn't physically pull seats out, they artificially lowered the capacity of the stand, so even when it's "sold out" there will always be empty seats. Not sure what the numbers involved were but I definitely remember hearing about this at the time and I'm fairly sure SM has mentioned it on several occassions since.
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Yes I have.
When we were making that decision we had to factor in that the SAG wouldn’t like it based on the fact that people selecting their own seats leave gaps that won’t get filled. Therefore the capacity was cut by 500.
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I think you a sadly mistaken there, there are always empty seats around the edges and at the front
Everton, Wrexham, barrow and now crewe . Southstand was full.
So , again hardly a rarity and going forward it will be a regular occurrence
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Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.
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Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.
It would be much more expensive than that.
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Specifically on the South Stand, there were a range of suggestions on the thread about the expansion. Some of these (pushing out false wall) would be at bottom end of the range, others (adding a tier) would be way in excess. Hence, million or more. All of which would be a colossal waste of money if the rest of the ground remains at best 2/3 full which was our experience in the Championship.
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Yes I have.
When we were making that decision we had to factor in that the SAG wouldn’t like it based on the fact that people selecting their own seats leave gaps that won’t get filled. Therefore the capacity was cut by 500.
Happy to stand corrected :-]]
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Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.
A million pound? It’s not 1995. A stadium expansion to the current design would cost probably in the region of £10m +
I’d be surprised if it could be done for less. Anyway, it’s not needed and doubt it ever will be.
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Nice to be talking about something other than shit results though. haha
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Anybody mention the ‘Pins’ concealed under the Tarmag outside the South and West stand yet?
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Definitely mentioned either earlier in this thread or one of the other multi-page ones going on at the minute.
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Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.
A million pound? It’s not 1995. A stadium expansion to the current design would cost probably in the region of £10m +
I’d be surprised if it could be done for less. Anyway, it’s not needed and doubt it ever will be.
I am not sure sir you have read the later post, which explains this. Perhaps find two minutes to do so.
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Any extension is probably a million quid or more exercise. If there are plenty of empty seats elsewhere in the ground but the South Stand is consistently full, that is not a business case for an investment of that scale. No CEO or CFO in their right mind would sign off that investment.
It would be much more expensive than that.
Little bit of reminiscing from an oldish man.
I worked on the design and construction of the Kop stand at Bramall Lane in 1991. It involved:
taking down the old asbestos sheeting roof,
concreting over the old terrace,
putting in the foundations, steelwork and concrete for a big, suspended extension to the area of the stand,
erecting a huge new roof,
removing the old floodlight pylons and replacing them with new lighting on the roof of the stand
and loads of associated works like new access ways, turnstile blocks, chuck stalls and toilets and a new tannoy systebm
The end product was basic but huge. 10,400 seats. Then one of the biggest all seat stands in the country.
Have a guess how much it cost.
£1.85m for the whole job.
Of course there's been inflation in the meantime (although not hugely so by historical comparison) and of course expectations have changed. But I suspect you wouldn't get the 2-3000 extension to the West Stand that I've discussed in this thread for 5 times that amount today.
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Managed 11,619 home fans tonight.
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Managed 11,619 home fans tonight.
Could have had more in, over the top netting. The safety officer must be a right jobs worth!
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What was tonight’s attendance?
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12,8**
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Felt like 22,000. Never heard it so loud in general play and if only......
Even the RS commentator said, in all his years covering Rovers since the stadium opened I don't remember an atmosphere like this....ever!