Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on June 05, 2024, 08:23:00 pm
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Just stumbled on an interesting list. Really emphasises how the Tories used to be the party of solid discipline and responsibility.
From when they took their modern form under the Marquis of Salisbury in 1881, up until 1997, they had only 13 leaders. And one of them was a temporary stand in while the leader was ill. That's roughly one leader per decade.
After this coming election, when Sunak buggers off to make money in America, they'll have had 9 in the past 27 years. 3 years per term.
And by then, they'll have had 4 in the past 2 years and 5 in the past 5.
I do wonder if this is some indicator of the Tories genuinely vanishing as a major electoral force.
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I’m now wondering whether the UK will become a one Party dictatorship?
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No the electorate is quite capable of ditching parties on mass.
Those who revel in the failure of the Tories, just think what could replace them if Farage gets his way.
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BFYP
I'm not revelling. It worries me a lot.
And yeah, the electorate is the thing that kills off parties. But it usually happens when parties lose their raisin d'etre. And I'd argue that's been happening to the Tories for 35 years now. They've responded by tacking this way and that, but they don't even seem capable of that these days.
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Not sure about the ''raisin d'etre'' but the tories are getting a right kicking in the date.
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I think it's a manifestation of weakness. The Tories have been struggling to make the economy work as they used to.
They are struggling to make the economy grow. Too few people are feeling the benefit. So they keep changing leader, trying to find a solution.
The danger is they'll keep pushing right looking for an answer.
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They haven't had a coherent vision for what they want the country to be since Thatcher. Since then they've been consumed by a civil war about our approach to Europe, and the side that won haven't got a clue what to do with the victory, so they've gone into Culture War mode.
Monday summed things up.
Labour spent the day talking seriously about Defence policy. The Tories spent all day talking about what paperwork people should need to go for a piss.
A long time ago, they lost any sense of a serious idea about what the country should be. And I think people are finally realising that. It's extremely dangerous times for them. There's no act of God that says the Tory party must exist.
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I think it's a manifestation of weakness. The Tories have been struggling to make the economy work as they used to.
They are struggling to make the economy grow. Too few people are feeling the benefit. So they keep changing leader, trying to find a solution.
The danger is they'll keep pushing right looking for an answer.
The tories were warned in poll after poll that people wanted the NHS fixed, clean water, better schools and education etc, they chose to cut revenue instead of fixing services and driving growth.
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I live in a Cotswold constituency. It's been blue, true blue, for about a million years. The polls currently put the LibDem candidate 1 point ahead of the Tories. The Tories could easily still win here - but so could the LibDem. This is a revolution in front of our eyes.
BobG
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I don't know if it's the same constituency Bob, but I know some dye in the wool Tories from Fairford that can't bring themselves to vote for the party.
They are also switching to Lib Dem
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It is Iberian !!
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I've got an ex military OAP mate down the road. Blue as they come. He's ditched the Tories too. For Reform. I think old Farage has definitely spotted an opportunity to supplant the Tories. Not going to stand, and then suddenly he is? Something had to have made him change his mind to do that. I reckon it is the Conservative Party. Fratricide and greed look like they're killing 'em off.
BobG
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Far right wing parties are making serious inroads in several European countries, and it’s happening here now.
I can see Reform continuing to get stronger and stronger as support for the Tories dries up.
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Far right wing parties are making serious inroads in several European countries, and it’s happening here now.
I can see Reform continuing to get stronger and stronger as support for the Tories dries up.
That's the question for moderate Tories.
If the Tory party does evaporate, do you find that Farage's lot are more appealing to you than Starmer's Labour?
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I read something t'other day suggesting it is possible, although not probable, that after the election the Liberal Democrat Party will form His Majesty's Loyal Opposition. That would be an Earth shattering event that would.
BobG
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By God, we're in the shit if the Lib Dems become the main party of opposition.
This is the party that showed themselves to be a bunch of traitors and snake oil salesmen in 2010.
They then elected a raving lunatic as leader, followed by a leader who repeatedly chucked himself into Lake Windermere despite it being full of turds.
Jesus wept.
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By God, we're in the shit if the Lib Dems become the main party of opposition.
This is the party that showed themselves to be a bunch of traitors and snake oil salesmen in 2010.
They then elected a raving lunatic as leader, followed by a leader who repeatedly chucked himself into Lake Windermere despite it being full of turds.
Jesus wept.
Whereas the Tories would be fine as an Opposition because...
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By God, we're in the shit if the Lib Dems become the main party of opposition.
This is the party that showed themselves to be a bunch of traitors and snake oil salesmen in 2010.
They then elected a raving lunatic as leader, followed by a leader who repeatedly chucked himself into Lake Windermere despite it being full of turds.
Jesus wept.
Whereas the Tories would be fine as an Opposition because...
Where have I said that the Tories will be fine as leaders of the Opposition? I think they're shite as well.
Now, do you think that the Lib Dems would be good as leaders of the Opposition?
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By God, we're in the shit if the Lib Dems become the main party of opposition.
This is the party that showed themselves to be a bunch of traitors and snake oil salesmen in 2010.
They then elected a raving lunatic as leader, followed by a leader who repeatedly chucked himself into Lake Windermere despite it being full of turds.
Jesus wept.
Whereas the Tories would be fine as an Opposition because...
Where have I said that the Tories will be fine as leaders of the Opposition? I think they're shite as well.
Now, do you think that the Lib Dems would be good as leaders of the Opposition?
If your logic is followed about Starmer then it is an unknown Steve.
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Amazing how a deflector comes along isn’t it SS.
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I read something t'other day suggesting it is possible, although not probable, that after the election the Liberal Democrat Party will form His Majesty's Loyal Opposition. That would be an Earth shattering event that would.
BobG
I believe two polls have shown this.
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Whilst on the topic of Conservative Party Leaders I see Infosys are disputing a £20m bill from HMRC for unpaid Corporation Tax. Now I wonder which Conservative Party Leader and his wife have shares in Infosys, and yet this morning their plan is to go after tax dodgers to offset their spending plans.
Shouldn't all contracts with Infosys be suspended until this is resolved?
https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1798753323157471405?t=bZqqpCUBK0L1GXVZTzIGLA&s=19
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Todays words of wisdom from a man who has been convicted twice
If you're a criminal, the law should show you no mercy.
R. Sunak
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This Is A Party Political Broadcast On Behalf Of The Labour Party....
https://youtu.be/wUDLxUFAJ-o
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Far right wing parties are making serious inroads in several European countries, and it’s happening here now.
I can see Reform continuing to get stronger and stronger as support for the Tories dries up.
That's the question for moderate Tories.
If the Tory party does evaporate, do you find that Farage's lot are more appealing to you than Starmer's Labour?
Absolutely not
On the same vein how do left wingers feel about that Tory centre ground being taken by labour? Where's the real left wing alternative? What happens if labour do go with more left wing policies than they appear to be proposing, do the former Tories leave and go well where?
Lots of change ahead.
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Far right wing parties are making serious inroads in several European countries, and it’s happening here now.
I can see Reform continuing to get stronger and stronger as support for the Tories dries up.
That's the question for moderate Tories.
If the Tory party does evaporate, do you find that Farage's lot are more appealing to you than Starmer's Labour?
Absolutely not
On the same vein how do left wingers feel about that Tory centre ground being taken by labour? Where's the real left wing alternative? What happens if labour do go with more left wing policies than they appear to be proposing, do the former Tories leave and go well where?
Lots of change ahead.
I think that's precisely the point BFYP.
The real political divide, ever since Trump showed that a criminal populist could get elected, is no longer the old centre-right/centre-left that we've had across the West since the War.
It's now a split between Far Right Populists Vs ...something else.
The Far Left want the "something else" to be a Far Left alternative and really draw up the battle lines for a repeat of the Socialism Vs Fascism fight that dominated the second quarter of the 20th Century.
Me, I'd prefer the alternative to be a broad coalition of the political centre-right and centre-left. Not necessarily because I think there are better ideas there than there are further to the Left. More because that grouping has more chance of winning enough votes over the long term to neutralise the Populist Far Right.
I don't know if Team Starmer has enough strategic vision to see that is the fight that is coming. But where they are positioning themselves is exactly where they need to be to give moderate Tory voters a home when the Tories implode after the Election. The alternative is to push those moderate Tories into the arms of Farage.
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Meant to add. Among lots of other reasons, that's another one to add to the argument about why Labour will absolutely not veer off to the Left after they take power.
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Far right wing parties are making serious inroads in several European countries, and it’s happening here now.
I can see Reform continuing to get stronger and stronger as support for the Tories dries up.
That's the question for moderate Tories.
If the Tory party does evaporate, do you find that Farage's lot are more appealing to you than Starmer's Labour?
Absolutely not
On the same vein how do left wingers feel about that Tory centre ground being taken by labour? Where's the real left wing alternative? What happens if labour do go with more left wing policies than they appear to be proposing, do the former Tories leave and go well where?
Lots of change ahead.
I think that's precisely the point BFYP.
The real political divide, ever since Trump showed that a criminal populist could get elected, is no longer the old centre-right/centre-left that we've had across the West since the War.
It's now a split between Far Right Populists Vs ...something else.
The Far Left want the "something else" to be a Far Left alternative and really draw up the battle lines for a repeat of the Socialism Vs Fascism fight that dominated the second quarter of the 20th Century.
Me, I'd prefer the alternative to be a broad coalition of the political centre-right and centre-left. Not necessarily because I think there are better ideas there than there are further to the Left. More because that grouping has more chance of winning enough votes over the long term to neutralise the Populist Far Right.
I don't know if Team Starmer has enough strategic vision to see that is the fight that is coming. But where they are positioning themselves is exactly where they need to be to give moderate Tory voters a home when the Tories implode after the Election. The alternative is to push those moderate Tories into the arms of Farage.
It's not as simple as socialists vs fascists.
Because obviously, alot of socialists are fascists
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Meant to add. Among lots of other reasons, that's another one to add to the argument about why Labour will absolutely not veer off to the Left after they take power.
I'm thinking that the Labour founding fathers never envisaged their party to be sitting exactly where Starmer is now trying to position this incarnation of Labour?
Is this really a Labour party or has it been hijacked by a metropolitan elite who are more social democrats and have now occupied the stamping ground for old Liberals.
Im not really sure how some of these "Labour MP's can call themselves socialists.
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I'm thinking the Labour founding fathers existed in a completely different world, so I'm not exactly sure why we should be invoking them.
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I'm thinking the Labour founding fathers existed in a completely different world, so I'm not exactly sure why we should be invoking them.
Be that as it may BST but I'm quite sure you know what the Labour Party was created for.
If you can hold your hand on heart and say this version has not sold out its original ideals, left its natural demographic behind and has re-created itself as an all singing and dancing Liberal party to get itself electable then all well and good.
Are you voting for the right party?
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I'm thinking the Labour founding fathers existed in a completely different world, so I'm not exactly sure why we should be invoking them.
Be that as it may BST but I'm quite sure you know what the Labour Party was created for.
If you can hold your hand on heart and say this version has not sold out its original ideals, left its natural demographic behind and has re-created itself as an all singing and dancing Liberal party to get itself electable then all well and good.
Are you voting for the right party?
Have you tried sending your CV to GB News?
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I'm thinking the Labour founding fathers existed in a completely different world, so I'm not exactly sure why we should be invoking them.
Be that as it may BST but I'm quite sure you know what the Labour Party was created for.
If you can hold your hand on heart and say this version has not sold out its original ideals, left its natural demographic behind and has re-created itself as an all singing and dancing Liberal party to get itself electable then all well and good.
Are you voting for the right party?
You do know things have changed a bit in the past 100 years?
When the labour movement first started, the overwhelming majority of working men earned a living through manual labour.
Now a tiny fraction do.
Times change. If you want a mass political party that appeals only to a tiny fraction of the population in a FPTP system, good luck with that.
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Your dead right things have changed in the last 100 years.
Things have also changed in the last 5 years, it seems some parties have changed a great deal in a short time. Funny that.
See, i'm never quite sure about people who change their minds about things as much as they change their underwangers, it just comes across as you know, making it up on the hoof.
I can still envisage Starmer standing next to Leader Corbyn and nodding and agreeing with every utterance. Things have certainly changed.
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Schnapps now running the line that there were no British veterans at the part Rich-ie skipped........ so our allies dead don't count in their world?
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Schnapps now running the line that there were no British veterans at the part Rich-ie skipped........ so our allies dead don't count in their world?
The logical conclusion of a once proud party that has totally run out of ideas.
A pyramid scheme con-man trying to out xenophobe the xenophobes.
What a f**king state they are.
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They are all turning sgainst Rich-ie in favour of Farage
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They are all turning sgainst Rich-ie in favour of Farage
At least she's used a blue colour scheme.
Every Conservative leaflet I've got through the letterbox in the past year or so has been any colour but blue. I had one through with a red colour scheme last week, but they're usually green. It's almost like they're trying to distance themselves from the party they represent.
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They are all turning sgainst Rich-ie in favour of Farage
Beyond belief int it?
Anyroad, she's a dead cert for being on the scrapheap on the morning of 5 July.
I wonder what the odds are against her being pleasant and conciliatory in her concession speech? 10,000/1?
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They are all turning sgainst Rich-ie in favour of Farage
Of course they are, It's aeons more than a year since they last changed leaders.