Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Little Wolf on June 07, 2024, 09:43:12 pm
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I have no idea how he got the job in the first place, the fa really have to take the blame, blessed with the best players on the planet and he has got no idea , why has a middlesborough manager who was always average got the england managers job,
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Does he have the best players in the world though or are they typically overrated by our media?
Okay I’ll give you Bellingham, Kane and foden but the defence/keeper are average at best.
I don’t rate Southgate all that much but who else would fit the “yes man” mould for the FA?
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They weren’t the best players on the planet tonight. I agree with you on Southgate, by the way - it’s utterly borefest football.
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Not a Terry Vendables is he, then again…..
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Grant McCann for England......!!! :whistle:
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I was there, trust me...it was dire :-(
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Waste of time these games.
His tournament record is the best we’ve ever had.
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Waste of time these games.
His tournament record is the best we’ve ever had.
Then why have them?
More monies to the FA per chance?
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They probably need some kind of game to keep them ticking over but they’re certainly not games to get your knickers in a twist over, as has been proven many times in the past
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I have no idea how he got the job in the first place, the fa really have to take the blame, blessed with the best players on the planet and he has got no idea , why has a middlesborough manager who was always average got the england managers job,
Well how about the fact that despite not yet winning anything he is still most successful England manager in the last 50 years. He has built a culture of togetherness where the players want to play for their country, where they play for each other. He along with others at the FA have invested in a structure that has finally delivered players with technical ability to match the very best in the world. (We weren't blessed with them, they've been coached world class) We now need to deliver a trophy. Lets see….
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I have no idea how he got the job in the first place, the fa really have to take the blame, blessed with the best players on the planet and he has got no idea , why has a middlesborough manager who was always average got the england managers job,
Are you Jack Grealish's dad?
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It was a friendly, just like every other team Rovers included players are not going to risk getting injured on the eve of a major tournament or the start of a new season.
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His tournament record is the same as every other manager bar one. It’s complete failure. He’s a born loser who has wasted the best set of players we’ve ever had. And turned most of the nation off to international football in the process. It’s like watching Rovers under Schofield, part of me wants us to lose, just so we can finally get rid of this pathetic limp loser.
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His tournament record is the same as every other manager bar one. It’s complete failure. He’s a born loser who has wasted the best set of players we’ve ever had. And turned most of the nation off to international football in the process. It’s like watching Rovers under Schofield, part of me wants us to lose, just so we can finally get rid of this pathetic limp loser.
Absolute Rubbish
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Most successful manager England has ever had other than Sir Alf. Players need accountability not just the manager. Style wise I loved Vennables more than any other England manager and had huge respect for Robson as well. England were dire last night, but England fans need to be careful what they ask for. Didn't exactly work for Capello and others who had a far better reputation than Southgate before they got the job. Before people come at me with how great players in squad are 2002 squad for example (and some others) were every bit as good as this one and did OK but didn't win World cup. Too easy to forget how bad we were under Hodgeson just before Southgate and Mcclaren and that the overly lauded Hoddle ripped to bits that fantastic Vennables team. We've had far worse managers than Southgate and could again if they appoint badly after he has gone.
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We'd have won the last Euros with a better manager. In game he is poor.
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It’s tactics when we are losing in big games what worries me he doesn’t know how to win games when he comes up against a better tactician , Mancini dechamps and the Croatian manager have proven that . He’s done a decent job but feel he should of called it a day after the World Cup and we’d start a fresh but hope I’m proved wrong we’ve no doubt some quality and players to bring on to change a game it’s how long he leaves to change players
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
So to be clear, your issue is in the use of the language "most successful" instead of "better than the others"?
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
What a weird scale. So by your logic McCann is no more successful than Schofield or McSheffrey given he’s not actually won anything?
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
What a weird scale. So by your logic McCann is no more successful than Schofield or McSheffrey given he’s not actually won anything?
Until he gets us promoted NO he isn't. What success has he had to achieve being called successful?
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
What a weird scale. So by your logic McCann is no more successful than Schofield or McSheffrey given he’s not actually won anything?
Simple, he’s made our matches enjoyable. In by book he’s successful along with Gareth Southgate.
Until he gets us promoted NO he isn't. What success has he had to achieve being called successful?
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These games are worse than normal friendlies imo. Learn nothing from them however imo it’s better to lose a game or two going into the tournament to dispel any complacency and try to keep the publics expectations in check.
On Southgate I think in the big games he’s reverted to quite a cautious approach when we may have been better having a proper go. Fans are more accepting of losing like that.
This tournament we’ve a weaker defence but in the forwards areas it’s hard to know the best line up. Think he’ll try to play tried and tested players and the likes of Palmer and Eze will be like Grealish last time.
Who ever partners Rice is vital as it feel like when we get far in the tournament we lose the central midfield battle to better technical players. I like Wharton but Southgate will likely play Gallagher because he runs about a lot.
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I’ve been pro-Southgate in the past and probably on balance still am but it’s concerning how many question marks there are over the team at this stage. We seem to have regressed as a side recently despite some players really progressing at club level (notably Foden & Bellingham).
- Is Guehi definitely the best choice to partner Stones? Feels like Southgate hasn’t taken enough of an opportunity to blood Branthwaite who would surely be the best like for like replacement for Maguire in terms of presence and old fashioned depending ability. Guehi has 10 or so caps but I can’t say I’m convinced he’s international quality
- How do you get TAA into the team? He’s looked very good coming on going forward but does that make up for his defensive deficiencies? And if so does that mean no place for Walker, arguably our best defender, or could he play left back? Should TAA play in midfield? That to me feels very risky and I don’t think he showed up well enough last week in that role
- If TAA doesn’t play in midfield, who should?
- Is Foden effective enough when not playing centrally?
- How much do you play Kane? He looked knackered last night already but will want to play every minute
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Not a Terry Vendables is he, then again…..
Im convinced Venables would have won a tournament if he’d had the calibre of players Southgate has had to choose from. Southgates got a squeaky clean image, comes across as a nice bloke & seems to bond with the players.
But thats it. Hes tactically useless.
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If Stones or Kane get injured we are done.
Every other player just about replaceable.
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I have no idea how he got the job in the first place, the fa really have to take the blame, blessed with the best players on the planet and he has got no idea , why has a middlesborough manager who was always average got the england managers job,
Jeeesus, you watch the so called ‘Golden Era’ did you? they were a credit to the country weren’t they?
And recently …..
World Cup Semi
Euro Final
Unlucky v France, yep Southgate not Kane missed the penalty didn’t he?
Holy crap
For posts that’s right up there eh? lad or lass.
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If Stones or Kane get injured we are done.
Every other player just about replaceable.
Kane the hardest to replace by some distance. Our defence looks pretty crap anyway so losing Stones would just make it a bit crapper. I’d say that Rice would be the next biggest loss after Kane.
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World cup we had an easy draw and should have done better, euros final so negative against italy we played in to their hands, as rovers fans we have seen the effects of bad managers over the last 3 years, i have realised its not if you win or lose its how you play the game, do you want a manager who’s mantra is if we do not concede we cannot lose or one who’s mantra is if we do not score we cannot win, thank god grants is the latter, why do so many managers get their uefa coaching a badges and play so dire tactics.
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His tournament record is the same as every other manager bar one. It’s complete failure. He’s a born loser who has wasted the best set of players we’ve ever had. And turned most of the nation off to international football in the process. It’s like watching Rovers under Schofield, part of me wants us to lose, just so we can finally get rid of this pathetic limp loser.
What absolute nonsense, one of the most pathetic posts I’ve ever read on here.
If anything other than winning a tournament is failure then you’re never going to be happy.
We’ve won one ever.
If you think the nation have lost interest in the national team then I’m not sure where you’ve been hiding for the last 8 years
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World cup we had an easy draw and should have done better, euros final so negative against italy we played in to their hands, as rovers fans we have seen the effects of bad managers over the last 3 years, i have realised its not if you win or lose its how you play the game, do you want a manager who’s mantra is if we do not concede we cannot lose or one who’s mantra is if we do not score we cannot win, thank god grants is the latter, why do so many managers get their uefa coaching a badges and play so dire tactics.
This argument is pathetic.
Oh we got to the World Cup semi because we had an easy draw, and then we were rubbish in the euros final.
No mention at all of how we got there
The facts are simple,
When he took over we’d been an embarrassment,
Not qualified out the World Cup at the group stage and then Knocked out the euros by Iceland.
Since he’s been in charge we’ve reached a World Cup semi final, and a euros final,
The mentality of negativity towards the national team has always been there and to have it now is pathetic.
What we have currently is as good as we’ve ever had
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
What a weird scale. So by your logic McCann is no more successful than Schofield or McSheffrey given he’s not actually won anything?
Until he gets us promoted NO he isn't. What success has he had to achieve being called successful?
If Stones or Kane get injured we are done.
Every other player just about replaceable.
Really?? Foden Bellingham Rice Walker !!
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His tournament record is the same as every other manager bar one. It’s complete failure. He’s a born loser who has wasted the best set of players we’ve ever had. And turned most of the nation off to international football in the process. It’s like watching Rovers under Schofield, part of me wants us to lose, just so we can finally get rid of this pathetic limp loser.
So who would you put in charge and why
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His tournament record is the same as every other manager bar one. It’s complete failure. He’s a born loser who has wasted the best set of players we’ve ever had. And turned most of the nation off to international football in the process. It’s like watching Rovers under Schofield, part of me wants us to lose, just so we can finally get rid of this pathetic limp loser.
So who would you put in charge and why
My personal favourite would be Howe - young, English, able to show passion and decisiveness, but De Zerbi would also be good. But in reality I’d honestly rather have almost anyone else. he’s a failed Boro manager who can’t inspire fans and players, who can’t make big decisions, and who can’t win when it counts. He got the job by default and needs to go - in my opinion. We have the richest FA in the world but have ended up with a failed championship / under 21s manager. We should invest in quality to use this squad to its full potential. This is just my opinion, it’s not ‘pathetic’, I’m happy to accept others won’t agree with me, but in my opinion he’s never been the right man for the job and will always choke when it counts as he’s a perennial loser.
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He’s transformed the national team from an embarrassment to getting to major tournament finals.
That’s all that matters
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I’m not a naturally negative person, and I’m not being deliberately argumentative. My opinion is that with the unmatched resources of our FA and the strength of our squad for the last few years we have to be winning. We’re a joke of a footballing nation as we’re the big country (in footballing terms) that never wins. It’s like Man City being happy coming third in the Prem every year just because they used to be shite. If we’re not winning, we’re losing. And the lack of a trophy for men’s football needs to end.
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
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He’s transformed the national team from an embarrassment to getting to major tournament finals.
That’s all that matters
It seems to me that you are quite happy for us to beat the minnows but when it comes to the bigger teams in the finals we always seem to manage to choke it.
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If we don’t win the Euro’s, even if we got to the final & lost, I’d replace him with Eddie Howe.
Howe is more tactically aware, he’s managed in the Premiership & he speaks well, never pulls any punches when his teams have underperformed & tells it how it is so the fans understand.
Southgate has had the best crop of players since the 90’s, time to perform.
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He’s transformed the national team from an embarrassment to getting to major tournament finals.
That’s all that matters
A win any cost mentality, not for me, i will not sell my football soul for this borefest football that is being churned out, it is a spectator sport we need to entertain or destroy the game, he has gone on record as saying a team that defends the best wins tournaments, my thinking is the team that attacks the best wins the tournament and if we do worse than we have been doing i am quite happy, why do so many england fans not like Gareth when he record is so good, next manager, ask klopp if he is interested
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If people think Eddie Howe is the answer they are struggling with the question.
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Trouble is, Gazlaz, if the FA’s wishes are for an English manager, then you’re fishing from a very small pond.
The U21’s guy seems to be doing ok. The other notable contender, for me, would be the Ipswich manager.
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Viewed from outside U.K. I feel that the hype the Premiership gets by the media and in particular Sky gives a false impression and there is realatively little appreciation of the strength of other nations
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Englands most successful manager my arse. We have only ever had one successful manager. Sir Alf Ramsay. All the rest have been losers. Some have been better than others but in the last 58 years we have had NO winners when it matters.
Factually he is exactly that. He has taken the England team further than any other manager other than Sir Alf Ramsey. Southgate has taken England to A Semi, A Final and Quarters. I wasn't in favour of him being appointed at the time so I understand the reservations, but facts don't stop being facts just because you don't like them. He is factually the most successful England manager other than Sir Alf.
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If Southgate goes after Euros then I just want a good experienced manager regardless of nationality and after giving it some thought I'd go for Jochim Low. For those that would like someone else other than Southgate, I'd love to know who you think would genuinely improve us. Some of you may or may not like my suggestion and I'm fine with that, but if he's going to be replaced at least have someone credible in mind.
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If Southgate goes after Euros then I just want a good experienced manager regardless of nationality and after giving it some thought I'd go for Jochim Low. For those that would like someone else other than Southgate, I'd love to know who you think would genuinely improve us. Some of you may or may not like my suggestion and I'm fine with that, but if he's going to be replaced at least have someone credible in mind.
Pochettino, Klopp, De Zerbi, Potter, Tuchel. To name just a few available managers.
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I'd be happy with Klopp being offered it.
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They may all be available, but are they any better?? Klopp is the only one there that stands out. And he resigned cos he wants a long rest.
BobG
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He’s transformed the national team from an embarrassment to getting to major tournament finals.
That’s all that matters
It seems to me that you are quite happy for us to beat the minnows but when it comes to the bigger teams in the finals we always seem to manage to choke it.
Hardly beat minnows Dennis to get to a few semi finals ........ however i agree he does not have the tactical flexibility in a game to make a difference .... or as you say 'choke it'
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I’m not a naturally negative person, and I’m not being deliberately argumentative. My opinion is that with the unmatched resources of our FA and the strength of our squad for the last few years we have to be winning. We’re a joke of a footballing nation as we’re the big country (in footballing terms) that never wins. It’s like Man City being happy coming third in the Prem every year just because they used to be shite. If we’re not winning, we’re losing. And the lack of a trophy for men’s football needs to end.
It’s nothing like Man City coming 4th, that’s absurd.
We’ve won absolutely nothing for almost 60 years, Man City win every year.
This manager has got us the closest within that last 60 years and is the first manager ever to get us to consecutive semi finals, one of them being the final.
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
Ah the old any other manager would’ve done it.
Fact is they didn’t,
We had the golden generation and got nowhere near a semi final never mind a final.
The nation will be out in force for all the games and the interest just gets bigger and bigger
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He’s transformed the national team from an embarrassment to getting to major tournament finals.
That’s all that matters
It seems to me that you are quite happy for us to beat the minnows but when it comes to the bigger teams in the finals we always seem to manage to choke it.
Beat the minnows don’t talk nonsense, u don’t get to a final by only beating the minnows.
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He’s transformed the national team from an embarrassment to getting to major tournament finals.
That’s all that matters
A win any cost mentality, not for me, i will not sell my football soul for this borefest football that is being churned out, it is a spectator sport we need to entertain or destroy the game, he has gone on record as saying a team that defends the best wins tournaments, my thinking is the team that attacks the best wins the tournament and if we do worse than we have been doing i am quite happy, why do so many england fans not like Gareth when he record is so good, next manager, ask klopp if he is interested
Look how many goals we scored in the last 3 major tournaments. People keep going on about defensive performances obviously haven’t a clue what they’re talking about
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If people think Eddie Howe is the answer they are struggling with the question.
Really??
I think he’d be good.
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International management and club management are very very different. Club managers get players they want and ate able to build a team over time. National managers get a few days at a time bar tournaments when they get longer. Managing England is a tough gig. Massive expectations and over the years players not good enough to deliver. Southgate had the under 21 job and then unexpectedly got the first team and since then we have gone further than any other manager has taken us. We are a good side and some top top players who play for him. We lack in certain positions and thrive in others. I fancy us to get the job done this year. A good win and performance on Sunday and all we be forgotten. Come on England
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Southgate has been great and it's been fun to watch England over the last few tournaments. Can't really complain can we - a penalty shootout away from winning the Euros and 2018 WC was epic, considering the crap in 2016.
Saying that though, I think this is last chance saloon for Gareth. Anything less than a final would be a total failure. Also some of his picks have me a bit concerned this time round. Fully behind them all now though - enjoy the ride
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
Do we have a fit left back?
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
Do we have a fit left back?
Trippier has played there a lot even though he’s right footed. Shaw fit for the KO games I think.
Looks like TAA will start in midfield.
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
Ah the old any other manager would’ve done it.
Fact is they didn’t,
We had the golden generation and got nowhere near a semi final never mind a final.
The nation will be out in force for all the games and the interest just gets bigger and bigger
Were they a golden generation if only 8 positions are filled by top players and the bench options are people like Darius Vassell? Or was it just media hype? Look at the Brazil team that knocked them out in 2002. We have a lot more quality and depth now.
The previous failure of managers gone by isn’t an excuse for Southgate. He’s been in the job for 8 years. This would have been an irrelevant era for Germany, Spain and Italy but we make documentaries and musicals about it.
Yes previous England teams underperformed and Southgate got rid of the negative atmosphere in the camp and the media pressure outside of it but there is still a loser mentality deep down.
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
Do we have a fit left back?
Trippier has played there a lot even though he’s right footed. Shaw fit for the KO games I think.
Looks like TAA will start in midfield.
Not sure about that call. Really like TAA and he’s looked good in the friendlies but that was from right back. He played in midfield for an hour in the first one but I thought he looked a bit lost. It’s a very different discipline actually playing as part of a midfield 3 than it is having the freedom to drift inside from right back.
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The old "EPL is best in world and we've got the most resources so therfore we should win". Heard under Capello, Sven, Roy. Here's a thought maybe tournament football has nothing to do with that and doesn't give the English the divine right to bring it home (Brazil won the world cup a fair few times and probably have more right to sing that horrible song). There's an element of luck and an element of being a tournament team. That's never been us, our fans and media are still too busy having a crying meltdown about how we do in friendlies that nobody cares about
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Trent in at RB, Walker looked well off it last game
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They wear rainbow laces and take the knee, that's all you need to know. I hope they lose every game.
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Reg is right.
I’ve lost interest too dicko. You can’t say anyone is wrong for losing interest.
Southgate is never held to account by the FA or any media. Are standards being driven on and off the pitch?
Every time we’ve been knocked out he has been outwitted in the match.
Yes he’s done better than before but any decent manager would have done.
Not taking a fit left back is just mind-blowing.
Ah the old any other manager would’ve done it.
Fact is they didn’t,
We had the golden generation and got nowhere near a semi final never mind a final.
The nation will be out in force for all the games and the interest just gets bigger and bigger
Were they a golden generation if only 8 positions are filled by top players and the bench options are people like Darius Vassell? Or was it just media hype? Look at the Brazil team that knocked them out in 2002. We have a lot more quality and depth now.
The previous failure of managers gone by isn’t an excuse for Southgate. He’s been in the job for 8 years. This would have been an irrelevant era for Germany, Spain and Italy but we make documentaries and musicals about it.
Yes previous England teams underperformed and Southgate got rid of the negative atmosphere in the camp and the media pressure outside of it but there is still a loser mentality deep down.
Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Cole, lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen,
That’s is an unbelievable crop of players,
Don’t talk about who’s on the bench, we’ve got dunk on this bench
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Most successful England manager ever is Sam Allardyce, won every game whilst in charge of the team a 100% win record
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Anyone think Walker could partner Stones at centre half? He played in a 3 and I know that’s not the same but he does seem to hold his position more than get forwards now. If we push up and press teams having his pace will be a huge help.
I’m not overly convinced the others are top level other than Stones. Guehi could end up been up there but the others are more like squad players for top teams.
This would let Trent play right back where he gets more time to play. Not convinced he’ll start in midfield I reckon Southgate will go for Gallagher to start. He should be brave and play Wharton imo.
Trent has been listed as a midfielder in the squad so that’s a clue as to where Gareth sees him
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How’s Tomori not get selected? He’s good.
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They wear rainbow laces and take the knee, that's all you need to know. I hope they lose every game.
Do you mind taking your east end bigotry somewhere else!
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Everbody hopes england wins and we play attacking football, we have a platinum generation come on england
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They wear rainbow laces and take the knee, that's all you need to know. I hope they lose every game.
That’s disgraceful.
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They wear rainbow laces and take the knee, that's all you need to know. I hope they lose every game.
Long time no hear.
I’d assumed you’d joined the Russian forces fighting Ukraine.
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Go on them someone defend southgate again saying how much attacking football he plays, what the hell did he say to them at half time
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Go on them someone defend southgate again saying how much attacking football he plays, what the hell did he say to them at half time
Did we not just win?
The signs were there towards the end of the first half that Serbia were coming back into the game and are a very tough team.
Changes should have been made a lot sooner and thought he brought the wrong players on but just pleased to get 3 points on the board.
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Go on them someone defend southgate again saying how much attacking football he plays, what the hell did he say to them at half time
Did we not just win?
The signs were there towards the end of the first half that Serbia were coming back into the game and are a very tough team.
Park the bus second half again and nearly paid the price, as soon as we play a good team we are out, dont get me wrong i want us to win the title but no chance with this muppet
Changes should have been made a lot sooner and thought he brought the wrong players on but just pleased to get 3 points on the board.
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Go on them someone defend southgate again saying how much attacking football he plays, what the hell did he say to them at half time
Look at his lineup, if that’s not attacking intent I don’t know what is.
Serbia are decent and we’ve won one opening game at the euros ever.
This is the problem with lots of folk, they don’t like Southgate so whatever happens they’re negative about the team.
End of the day that’s a great result to start the tournament off with
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They’re chasing the game so make subs accordingly that’s how football works they had 4 or 5 attackers on at the end chasing the game.
Never really looked like scoring
Italy did that yesterday and it’s a defensive masterclass we do it today and Southgate is clueless
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We won the game.
England and Serbia will progress from the group.
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They wear rainbow laces and take the knee, that's all you need to know. I hope they lose every game.
Your life must be boring as f*ck.
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We will progress from this group but as soon as we play a good team we are out, wrong approach no idea manager as soon as he is gone the better, if you thought that was a attacking second half you do not live on this planet and have no idea
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Take the win and move on to the Denmark game - this is tournament football. Serbia will fancy themselves against Denmark and Slovenia.
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Foden is getting shoehorned in at the moment. Something is slightly off with the attacking balance with him and Kane.
Need Shaw to get fit and stay fit for that extra dimension going forward, that might help a bit.
Saka and Bellingham unbelievable.
Extra quality got us over the line but should have killed them off with the control we had.
Bowen looked bright off the bench.
Don’t write off Denmark Hound, they have some brilliant players.
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Foden is getting shoehorned in at the moment. Something is slightly off with the attacking balance with him and Kane.
Need Shaw to get fit and stay fit for that extra dimension going forward, that might help a bit.
Saka and Bellingham unbelievable.
Extra quality got us over the line but should have killed them off with the control we had.
Bowen looked bright off the bench.
Don’t write off Denmark Hound, they have some brilliant players.
I agree about Denmark but just think that the Serbs will get second place in the group.
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We will progress from this group but as soon as we play a good team we are out, wrong approach no idea manager as soon as he is gone the better, if you thought that was a attacking second half you do not live on this planet and have no idea
You are clueless I’m afraid,
It’s tournament football, we will get better that’s a great win tonight
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We will progress from this group but as soon as we play a good team we are out, wrong approach no idea manager as soon as he is gone the better, if you thought that was a attacking second half you do not live on this planet and have no idea
You are clueless I’m afraid,
It’s tournament football, we will get better that’s a great win tonight
I’ve spent the last half an hour defending tonight to various people, but it’s absolutely not a “great” win.
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We will see who is clueless, i hope it is me and we win the title but im afraid its you and are looking through rose coloured glasses as we have no chance with this muppet in charge
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Of course it is,
We drew with Scotland in the last one and reached the final. Serbia are far better than Scotland.
That win more or less guarantees qualification, so yes a great win.
Not a great performance but nowhere near as bad as people are making out
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We will see who is clueless, i hope it is me and we win the title but im afraid its you and are looking through rose coloured glasses as we have no chance with this muppet in charge
No you don’t hope you’re wrong, you’re sat waiting to come on here and moan even when we win.
Folk like you are dying for us to fail
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Go on them someone defend southgate again saying how much attacking football he plays, what the hell did he say to them at half time
Look at his lineup, if that’s not attacking intent I don’t know what is.
Serbia are decent and we’ve won one opening game at the euros ever.
This is the problem with lots of folk, they don’t like Southgate so whatever happens they’re negative about the team.
End of the day that’s a great result to start the tournament off with
If you truly believe that to be a great result (yes, I know it was a win but ‘a great result’ would have been 4-0 or more) then all I can say is Dunkirk was a…………….no, too soon on German soil.
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Time will tell
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Go on them someone defend southgate again saying how much attacking football he plays, what the hell did he say to them at half time
Look at his lineup, if that’s not attacking intent I don’t know what is.
Serbia are decent and we’ve won one opening game at the euros ever.
This is the problem with lots of folk, they don’t like Southgate so whatever happens they’re negative about the team.
End of the day that’s a great result to start the tournament off with
If you truly believe that to be a great result (yes, I know it was a win but ‘a great result’ would have been 4-0 or more) then all I can say is Dunkirk was a…………….no, too soon on German soil.
In the grand scheme of things that’s a great win, it’s gets us qualified, the group games are always tough.
And we’re up and running
Draw it and there would be even more negativity than there is now
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They wear rainbow laces and take the knee, that's all you need to know. I hope they lose every game.
Fool !
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Are you real
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If we’d won well you’d of been spouting “it was only Serbia”
Never happy people like you, we even got all the way to our first final in almost 60 years and lost in a penalty shootout yet you were spouting negativity
Beggars belief
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You do not admit that was a piss poor park the bus second half
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Great 3 points. Excellent performance for 35 mins to build on. Restricted Serbia to one shot on target the entire game.
That was with a few of the lads not imposing themselves like we know they can.
Perfectly acceptable opening match.
…..A few folk seem to have forgotten what crap and clueless really was, ie the shambles that was Gerard,Rooney, Cole, Lampard,Terry et al…
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We had the golden generation which you have said is a s**t show, many england manager had no or little premier league players to pick from but this manager has world class players to pick from, get real he has no idea
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We had the golden generation which you have said is a shit show, many england manager had no or little premier league players to pick from but this manager has world class players to pick from, get real he has no idea
Which England manager had no or little premier league players to pick from
That’s just nonsense
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On that performance a result is a result end of
But
You can't park a bus against the likes of France Germany Italy Sweden your bug game is against Denmark which you should win but on that performance Bellingham foden kane ain't going to get a sniff against the big sides
My team for it are Holland
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On that performance a result is a result end of
But
You can't park a bus against the likes of France Germany Italy Sweden your bug game is against Denmark which you should win but on that performance Bellingham foden kane ain't going to get a sniff against the big sides
My team for it are Holland
Bellingham was outstanding
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The aim of any manager is to get his team to perform at a level greater than the sum of its parts. I can't help thinking that Southgate has this team performing at a level far lower than the sum of its parts.
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That wasn't a great 'team' performance - there were some good individual performances, but we didn't look cohesive and we lacked energy and movement for me. 3 points gained, but I found it a tough watch and I don't think any of the top teams will be worrying too much about England. Perhaps things will improve as the tournament progresses, but it has some way to go.
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Did England win ?
Did Serbia roll over ?
Will England play better ?
Will England qualify for the next stage ?
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As usual, we go off at a tangent. Never mind previous England managers, we are looking at right now. No manager is 100% perfect all the time. And without Southgate who do we know will definitely do a better job. I don't see a better manager (and who also wants the job) for Doncaster than Grant McCann and I can't see a better manager for England than Southgate. You can't always blame the managers when all the preparatory work has been done but the players don't perform 100% in every game.
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It's Southgate in game management that lets him down and has proven so in the past and I've no doubt we will see again in this tournament
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England fans put too much pressure on the manager and the players all the time. They are not happy we are in the tournament. We must win against spectacular European sides. Fans will be disappointed if we reach the final and lose on penalties. Getting rid of Southgate can make things a lot worse.
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Mixed bag of a first game - thought team selection and set up was right based on who we have - much more attacking intent and form players picked, clean sheet and win is a win, plus Bellingham is an absolute legend. But, the usual Southgate issue reappeared of not effecting changes when the game was slipping away - Foden (who I rate) was terrible and kept giving ball away - we needed a change of plan / personnel on the left - if we'd played another ten mins they'd have scored, plus we are still so slow and ponderous - just when you feel we have them on the ropes we pass the ball at the back or stop and stand with the ball. Those things may cost us against better teams.
Points on the board, clean sheet, plenty of room for improvement individually and as a team - benefit of the doubt for now!
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Agree about the left back option. We have 9 forward options.... and yet have only one left back option without slotting Trippier in there...
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
Chilwell has been absolutely horrendous this season for Chelsea and when he’s appeared for England. Right call not to take him but I think Mitchell at Palace had a case.
I thought Trippier was OK last night but never pushed outside or used his left foot. Would Gomez do better? Hopefully Shaw is fit by the end of the group stages anyway.
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
Absolutely, but he's played 13 games all season and not started a game for over 3 months, he was never going. Clearly the aim is to get Shaw fit and if we can get him in for the knockouts that is a good solution. Mitchell at Palace may have been the only other shout.
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It's Southgate in game management that lets him down and has proven so in the past and I've no doubt we will see again in this tournament
It’s only his in game management when we don’t play well that gets scrutinised nobody mentions the subs and tactical changes he makes when they come off.
IE Germany in the last euros,
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The aim of any manager is to get his team to perform at a level greater than the sum of its parts. I can't help thinking that Southgate has this team performing at a level far lower than the sum of its parts.
They’ve got to a euros final and a World Cup semi final.
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
Absolutely, but he's played 13 games all season and not started a game for over 3 months, he was never going. Clearly the aim is to get Shaw fit and if we can get him in for the knockouts that is a good solution. Mitchell at Palace may have been the only other shout.
Yet on the other side Walker has started 12 games all season
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
If Foden had a game like Saka did last night everybody would be eulogising non-stop.
Saka needs pressure taking off him or he will get double up on and kicked all game. But he is far from ordinary, he’s a world-class player.
Fabregas was spot on when talking about Foden for England last night, he makes the other pundits look like clowns.
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
Absolutely, but he's played 13 games all season and not started a game for over 3 months, he was never going. Clearly the aim is to get Shaw fit and if we can get him in for the knockouts that is a good solution. Mitchell at Palace may have been the only other shout.
Yet on the other side Walker has started 12 games all season
Kyle Walker started 30 games in the Premier League alone…
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England won, it wasn't pretty, but we won. Nothing else matters in tournament football.
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Fabregas was spot on when talking
That’s all that needs saying. Perhaps he should have a sit down with GS?
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
Absolutely, but he's played 13 games all season and not started a game for over 3 months, he was never going. Clearly the aim is to get Shaw fit and if we can get him in for the knockouts that is a good solution. Mitchell at Palace may have been the only other shout.
Yet on the other side Walker has started 12 games all season
I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from as they're miles off.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPvcME8rOVI
Foden is most effective for Man City central or slightly on the right. Out of position for England in Southgate's imagination. I think he needs greater link up play with Kane to be effective but that was absent last night. I would take Trent out, put Gordon on the wing, move Foden more central and go with a 4-1-4-1 formation.
I also think England looked lethargic, like very tired in their performance, which is very worrying, and I also don't understand why Southgate doesn't manage his players better - like taking Kane off and putting on a striker who can run in behind.
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For me, going into the tournament without a fit left back is criminal. Add that to Foden being crap last night and the whole left side looked vunerable. On the right get tight on Saka and he looks ordinary as shown in the Second half
Do we have any?
Chillwell is better at left back than Tripier
Absolutely, but he's played 13 games all season and not started a game for over 3 months, he was never going. Clearly the aim is to get Shaw fit and if we can get him in for the knockouts that is a good solution. Mitchell at Palace may have been the only other shout.
Yet on the other side Walker has started 12 games all season
I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from as they're miles off.
From last night commentary, unless I miss heard, I do have hearing aids lol!
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They were talking about Stones
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPvcME8rOVI
Foden is most effective for Man City central or slightly on the right. Out of position for England in Southgate's imagination. I think he needs greater link up play with Kane to be effective but that was absent last night. I would take Trent out, put Gordon on the wing, move Foden more central and go with a 4-1-4-1 formation.
I also think England looked lethargic, like very tired in their performance, which is very worrying, and I also don't understand why Southgate doesn't manage his players better - like taking Kane off and putting on a striker who can run in behind.
If you put Foden in the middle then you nullify our best player Bellingham who would have to sit deeper and cover for him.
Look at Bellingham’s goal record for Madrid where he almost plays as a centre forward. You don’t want him playing deeper.
I agree on Gordon though. Shaw and Watkins could work on the left. He should have taken Rashford as an option.
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They were talking about Stones
Fair enough
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPvcME8rOVI
Foden is most effective for Man City central or slightly on the right. Out of position for England in Southgate's imagination. I think he needs greater link up play with Kane to be effective but that was absent last night. I would take Trent out, put Gordon on the wing, move Foden more central and go with a 4-1-4-1 formation.
I also think England looked lethargic, like very tired in their performance, which is very worrying, and I also don't understand why Southgate doesn't manage his players better - like taking Kane off and putting on a striker who can run in behind.
Agree with a lot of this. Foden is probably going to have to play wide and be allowed to drift in though.Saka has to hold the width and is the best we have at that 1v1 situation.
Looked very leggy in midfield in the 2nd half with TAA in there and even in the 1st in tight areas with his back to goal he wasn’t quite as safe on the ball as he needs to be for midfield. Gallagher or Mainoo should play instead imo for their energy.
And you’re right on managing the players. Kane did a good job staying high up and was unlucky not to score but with 20min to go I felt we were crying out for someone who can actually run. They were flying forwards and we needed someone to turn them. Also we can’t really press when the lead player is this slow.
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Bellingham is better playing deeper for me, he can do everything, wins tackles, great passing, can get all over the pitch.
I’d have him alongside rice and foden as a number 10
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Good evening England and Southgate moaners
Belgium 0 Slovakia 1
We did get a good result last night didn’t we, go on admit it….
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Much more entertaining 1-0!
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There was a parked bus, surely not that entertaining
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Good evening England and Southgate moaners
Belgium 0 Slovakia 1
We did get a good result last night didn’t we, go on admit it….
Exactly the point I tried to make on another thread. It's not about how you play it's the win. That's all that matters in tournament football and many a team have won the trophy without playing pretty football and winning 5 0 each game as every England fan expects
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France struggling against Austria!
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Yep the French look pretty pleased with a 1-0 don’t they?
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Wonder if the French public are as outraged at a 1-0 win
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Wonder if the French public are as outraged at a 1-0 win
They probably have similar views as some English fans. The commentary team earlier tonight said that Deschamps gets some criticism for being "too conservative"... sounds familiar!
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Let’s go radical drop Kane play Bellingham as a false 9 move Foden into the middle where he might play better. Saka on the right and either Gordon or Eze on the left. As Cesc said Foden has to step up along with DeBryner and Cocu with both were poor for Belgium is that their managers fault
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Let’s go radical drop Kane play Bellingham as a false 9 move Foden into the middle where he might play better. Saka on the right and either Gordon or Eze on the left. As Cesc said Foden has to step up along with DeBryner and Cocu with both were poor for Belgium is that their managers fault
Are you being sarcastic or are you really suggesting we drop the best No9 in the world?
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Bellingham is better playing deeper for me, he can do everything, wins tackles, great passing, can get all over the pitch.
I’d have him alongside rice and foden as a number 10
100% agree dickos.
If we beat Denmark and qualify before we play Slovenia then I would do exactly that dickos.
Bellingham can still get forward from playing that role. He has got the legs. Remember Colin Bell he was box to box and Bellingham is even better than Colin Bell and that’s some compliment. David Platt another.
Bellingham has that physical presence and can tackle never mind assists & score goals. Get him playing where he will really run the game and give Foden the opportunity to shine. Play Gordon on the left. Gives the team more balance.
In fact why wait for Slovenia. I would back us to do the business against Denmark who ever we play so long as the team plays on the front foot for at least 75/80 mins and not just 45 mins
The big tests are against the best teams in France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal & Netherlands.
I just hope Southgate can think a bit outside the box or maybe it’s inside the box.
Play a system and put your 11 players in that system that suits them best.
Anyone remember Alf Ramsey in ‘66’
He played 4-4-2 without any wingers. Peters & Ball as the wider players in the middle instead of Thompson & Callaghan the 2 Liverpool wingers. Everyone thought he had lost the plot. He even left Jimmy Greaves out of the team & we went on to win the World Cup.
Not only that but Alf said we would win it.
I want to hear Southgate say to the players we will win the Euro’s with conviction. Be brave. He who dares.
It would be brilliant to hear him say publicly that we are going to win the Euro’s
Let’s be honest GS has nothing to lose. If we don’t win it he is gone. He will probably resign anyway before he is sacked.
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Let’s go radical drop Kane play Bellingham as a false 9 move Foden into the middle where he might play better. Saka on the right and either Gordon or Eze on the left. As Cesc said Foden has to step up along with DeBryner and Cocu with both were poor for Belgium is that their managers fault
Seriously. That would not be radical but down right stupid imo. He is a goalscorer and given the service is capable of being the highest scorer in the competition.
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Let’s go radical drop Kane play Bellingham as a false 9 move Foden into the middle where he might play better. Saka on the right and either Gordon or Eze on the left. As Cesc said Foden has to step up along with DeBryner and Cocu with both were poor for Belgium is that their managers fault
Are you being sarcastic or are you really suggesting we drop the best No9 in the world?
I’m certainly not being serious but sick of hearing about Foden and where he should play he’s played 22 games in qualifiers or tournament games he’s scored 1 goal and had 6 assists. It’s about time he stepped up and produced the form he shows at City in an England shirt.
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Let’s go radical drop Kane play Bellingham as a false 9 move Foden into the middle where he might play better. Saka on the right and either Gordon or Eze on the left. As Cesc said Foden has to step up along with DeBryner and Cocu with both were poor for Belgium is that their managers fault
As an aside, it's a little-known fact that Rovers actually first coined the term "False number 9" a year after we signed Carl Alford.
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Wonder if the French public are as outraged at a 1-0 win
They probably have similar views as some English fans. The commentary team earlier tonight said that Deschamps gets some criticism for being "too conservative"... sounds familiar!
They looked a very dangerous side to me. 1-0 maybe but they attack in numbers and have pace to burn all over the park. They also are physically strong with some serious athletes in the team.
They are the team I fear most but don’t think that word should be used. The only way to play against them is use the same tactics they use. Attack at every opportunity with pace and numbers.
Austria were a good team just didn’t have an end product and were short in quality up front.
We have the ammunition to beat them. 100% we do. Over to you Gareth set the team up right and we can not only beat France but we can beat anyone.
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I have no idea how he got the job in the first place, the fa really have to take the blame, blessed with the best players on the planet and he has got no idea , why has a middlesborough manager who was always average got the england managers job,
Wow, just seen this post.
Absolute nutter.
Anyone who thinks southgate has been anything short of fantastic for England, should stop watching international football because it's clearly not for them.
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Let’s go radical drop Kane play Bellingham as a false 9 move Foden into the middle where he might play better. Saka on the right and either Gordon or Eze on the left. As Cesc said Foden has to step up along with DeBryner and Cocu with both were poor for Belgium is that their managers fault
Are you being sarcastic or are you really suggesting we drop the best No9 in the world?
I’m certainly not being serious but sick of hearing about Foden and where he should play he’s played 22 games in qualifiers or tournament games he’s scored 1 goal and had 6 assists. It’s about time he stepped up and produced the form he shows at City in an England shirt.
Raheem Sterling had a better record than that but got slaughtered by England fans and the media.
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It amazes me people who think Austria are going to be a walkover when they have lost 1 game in the last 12 including a draw in Belgium going in to this tournament and England who have lost 5 out of their last 6 going in this tournament think they are going to win it, i suppose i am more realistic than some
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The England formation vs Serbia was attacking and it worked 1st half. Dragan clearly savaged them at half time and changed system. It must be frustrating for him trying to coach people who can't do what he could as a player. Nothing is given for free in competition international football as higher ranked Belgium found out and France did no better than us in terms of performance or score. Gareth Southgate wouldn't have been my pick when he was appointed, but results show he has done a great job. It is time for players he has shown faith in to pay him back and take some personal respponsibility. I still think things will click this comp.
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It amazes me people who think Austria are going to be a walkover when they have lost 1 game in the last 12 including a draw in Belgium going in to this tournament and England who have lost 5 out of their last 6 going in this tournament think they are going to win it, i suppose i am more realistic than some
You’re either on the wind up or you are maybe the daftest person to ever post on here
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Why~ have Austria not lost only 1 in 12 games or England not lost 5 out of the last 6 are you denying history now
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Why~ have Austria not lost only 1 in 12 games or England not lost 5 out of the last 6 are you denying history now
England didn't lose 5 out of 6 going into the tournament.
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Majority of those games are meaningless friendlies,
Look at the competitive results over the last 12 games
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Your right its won 1 in the last 6 games
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Majority of those games are meaningless friendlies,
Look at the competitive results over the last 12 games
Think you have forgot how poor we were in our last major competition
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Really?
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Majority of those games are meaningless friendlies,
Look at the competitive results over the last 12 games
Think you have forgot how poor we were in our last major competition
This shows how clueless you are
Last major comp our results were
Won 6-2
Drew 0-0
Won 3-0
Won 3-0
Lost 2-1
Austria in last major comp
Didn’t even qualify
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Majority of those games are meaningless friendlies,
Look at the competitive results over the last 12 games
Think you have forgot how poor we were in our last major competition
This shows how clueless you are
Last major comp our results were
Won 6-2
Drew 0-0
Won 3-0
Won 3-0
Lost 2-1
Austria in last major comp
Didn’t even qualify
Im sorry , have you not heard, UEFA introduced a new major competition called the nations league, i thought you must have heard of it, bit surprised you have not, but let me get you up to date and up to speed
Team Pl W D L F A GD Pts
1 Italy 6 3 2 1 8 7 1 11
2 Hungary 6 3 1 2 8 5 3 10
3 Germany 6 1 4 1 11 9 2 7
4 England 6 0 3 3 4 10 -6 3
Here is how we did in the last competition bottom of the group and relegated from the top 16 teams of Europe 3 points from 18
Dont worry there are lots of videos on the internet so you can catch up on the matches you have missed
NB dont watch the Engalnd Hungary match its a bit of a video nasty
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Nations league a major competition
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Are you saying this is not a major competition :-
In addition to a financial prize of 10.5 million , the team that manages to win the trophy will also receive a sporting reward: the Nations League champions will be given privileged status in qualifying for the World Cup. They will be drawn into a group of five teams, instead of the usual six.
Are you saying you are not interested if England do well in the nations league i find that hard to believe, you tell that to the Spanish French and Portugal fans after they won i am sure they will disagree
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Are you saying this is not a major competition :-
In addition to a financial prize of 10.5 million , the team that manages to win the trophy will also receive a sporting reward: the Nations League champions will be given privileged status in qualifying for the World Cup. They will be drawn into a group of five teams, instead of the usual six.
Are you saying you are not interested if England do well in the nations league i find that hard to believe, you tell that to the Spanish French and Portugal fans after they won i am sure they will disagree
Yes, I’m sure if you asked a French fan to tell you about the last time they won a major tournament they’d regale you with the thrilling journey to the Nations League title in a half empty* stadium, swatting aside opponents that they can’t even remember, as opposed to their World Cup triumph 3 years earlier.
They’re glorified friendlies. We came 3rd in the very first Nations League in 2019 and I’ve never heard anyone suggest that was a good achievement or use it in Southgate’s defence.
*more than half empty - attendance 31k in the 80k San Siro
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Majority of those games are meaningless friendlies,
Look at the competitive results over the last 12 games
Think you have forgot how poor we were in our last major competition
This shows how clueless you are
Last major comp our results were
Won 6-2
Drew 0-0
Won 3-0
Won 3-0
Lost 2-1
Austria in last major comp
Didn’t even qualify
Im sorry , have you not heard, UEFA introduced a new major competition called the nations league, i thought you must have heard of it, bit surprised you have not, but let me get you up to date and up to speed
Team Pl W D L F A GD Pts
1 Italy 6 3 2 1 8 7 1 11
2 Hungary 6 3 1 2 8 5 3 10
3 Germany 6 1 4 1 11 9 2 7
4 England 6 0 3 3 4 10 -6 3
Here is how we did in the last competition bottom of the group and relegated from the top 16 teams of Europe 3 points from 18
Dont worry there are lots of videos on the internet so you can catch up on the matches you have missed
NB dont watch the Engalnd Hungary match its a bit of a video nasty
There's been a World Cup since then.
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world cup was in 2022, last nations league was 2023
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world cup was in 2022, last nations league was 2023
It’s bizarre that you’re trying to cling to this, but if so at least get your facts straight. The Nations League final was in 2023, but the competition ran from 2022 and in fact every single one of those games that you’ve highlighted for England (the 3 draws and 3 defeats) were played between June & September 2022. The World Cup was in November/December 2022.
So yeah, there has been a World Cup since then.
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If Germany can have
F. Wirtz
İ. Gündoğan
J. Musiala
K. Havertz
Playing in a front four then
Saka
Bellingham
Foden
Kane
Should be able to playe together.
None of the German players are out and out wingers
Germany play 4231 same as us so our front four should be able to link it all together.
My only problem is we need a left footed full back even if Shaw is not fit
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Are you saying this is not a major competition :-
In addition to a financial prize of 10.5 million , the team that manages to win the trophy will also receive a sporting reward: the Nations League champions will be given privileged status in qualifying for the World Cup. They will be drawn into a group of five teams, instead of the usual six.
Are you saying you are not interested if England do well in the nations league i find that hard to believe, you tell that to the Spanish French and Portugal fans after they won i am sure they will disagree
Its not a major competition at all, despite it being pushed as one
Nobody cares or remembers who even won it
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Nations league is not a major tournament!!
Sums up everything about your nonsense does that
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This is going off on a tangent. My view is we saw another classic Southgate performance, go one up and then change the game to rely on not conceding and hoping we get lucky with another goal. We’ve seen it so many times. Sometimes it comes off and sometimes it doesn’t.
The frustration as a fan is believing that if we just played the way we can for 90 minutes, firstly it’d be more entertaining, and secondly in my view it would get better results.
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This is going off on a tangent. My view is we saw another classic Southgate performance, go one up and then change the game to rely on not conceding and hoping we get lucky with another goal. We’ve seen it so many times. Sometimes it comes off and sometimes it doesn’t.
The frustration as a fan is believing that if we just played the way we can for 90 minutes, firstly it’d be more entertaining, and secondly in my view it would get better results.
This is my view entirely Steve, it's clearly a divisive subject - as this thread and the rest of the internet (BBC sport comments etc) seems to suggest. I've nailed my colours to the mast as anti-Southgate, but we've clearly progressed further in tournament football than for a long time, but somehow it's uninspiring and dull, and I personally don't think he's got enough non-textbook intuition to win us the big games when it counts. And this is a bit of a soft measure (to say the least) but I've not spotted many (if any) cars with flags on, houses done up for games, shirts on walking the street etc, which suggests a level of disconnection between the country on the whole and the team. I hope we win, but I'm current not inspired and definitely not a believer! Equally I'm happy to accept that others don't / won't agree and can see the strengths and success of Southgate!
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To settle the argument forget about games won or lost in whatever competition. Just base it on trophies won.
GARETH SOUTHGATE = NONE
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I've been a massive football fan all my long life, and love major tournaments. Someone's been on about one. What was it called? Notions League? Neeshen's League?
Did we play in it? If so, I can't remember it. It reminds me of that p*sspot tournament about 40 years ago, the Anglo-Italian Trophy or something daft.
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To settle the argument forget about games won or lost in whatever competition. Just base it on trophies won.
GARETH SOUTHGATE = NONE
By that logic Grant McCann is a worse Rovers manager than the combination of Dean Saunders & Brian Flynn and he's no better than Schofield or McSheffrey.
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Nations league is not a major tournament, it's glorified friendlies for UEFA so get more money out of fans. Genuinely nobody cares
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To settle the argument forget about games won or lost in whatever competition. Just base it on trophies won.
GARETH SOUTHGATE = NONE
By that logic Grant McCann is a worse Rovers manager than the combination of Dean Saunders & Brian Flynn and he's no better than Schofield or McSheffrey.
Sadly he's not the only one following that logic...
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Great stat just seen on the beeb website. STFU winging like little babies when we don't win convincingly or score loads. It. Does. Not. Matter. In. Tournament. Football
When Spain won the 2010 World Cup they scored just four goals in the group stage, won 1-0 in the last 16, quarter-final and semi-final, before winning the final against the Netherlands 1-0 in extra time.
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To settle the argument forget about games won or lost in whatever competition. Just base it on trophies won.
GARETH SOUTHGATE = NONE
Alf Ramsey = One
The rest of the England managers with all the players they have even the golden generation =None
So for the hype around all the players we’ve had since 1966 we’ve won nothing
So every manager has been no good and the players have been brilliant (sarcasm)
Also this season
Man City PG Arsenal MA ManUtd TH Newc EH Liver JK Brighton WH AV not one of these brilliant premier league sides got to a semi final in a European competition last season
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Laugh that one off!!!!!!!
Well done Gareth.
What a loser.
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Laugh that one off!!!!!!!
Well done Gareth.
What a loser.
I’ve asked this question before, who do you replace him with and why that person ?
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Nations league is not a major tournament, it's glorified friendlies for UEFA so get more money out of fans. Genuinely nobody cares
Totally agree. Cant believe anyone thinks otherwise.
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Maybe the players thought they were playing in the Nations League competition, after that diabolical display!
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Best thing is Southgate will be leaving on his terms. Sounds like it's down to him to leave after this tournament. The FA want him until the world cup.
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To settle the argument forget about games won or lost in whatever competition. Just base it on trophies won.
GARETH SOUTHGATE = NONE
What an absolute ridiculous statement.
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For those that think Southgate is the right man for the job, can anyone explain what his tactics are? Kyle Walker was asked after the match if they’re told to all drop back when they go a goal up and he said something like “we all want to play attacking football”, so what’s going on?
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Kane even said there was confusion about who was pressing when or something like that.
The day and age of parking the bus has long gone. That’s why Jose is managing in Turkey not Madrid.
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Sack him now.
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1st world cup only 13 teams played the rest of the countries thought it was a mickey mouse cup and declined to take part
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Luke Shaw a doubt for the whole tournament now.
Taking only 1 unfit and injury prone left back is playing out as expected… another Southgate masterstroke.
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Luke Shaw a doubt for the whole tournament now.
Taking only 1 unfit and injury prone left back is playing out as expected… another Southgate masterstroke.
This was madness. We have 58 million people in England and he couldn’t find another left back to take to the Euro’s.
He refuses to bring on Gordon who plays on the left.
He leaves Grealish twiddling his thumbs at home, a player who takes people on and wins free kicks on the edge of the box.
He says we have no one to play like Calvin Philips and he leaves him at home.
Someone please tell me whether GS has lost the plot or not.
I have backed Southgate time after time after time when others have said get rid.
Well after what I am watching and seeing with my perfectly decent eyes ( yes I do need specs ) then GS has imo completely lost the plot and I am not sure if he is losing the players belief in what he is saying to them.
Let’s see if he proves me wrong in the next game on at least some of my observations.
I dearly hope he does but I am fearing the worst.
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I have no idea how he got the job in the first place, the fa really have to take the blame, blessed with the best players on the planet and he has got no idea , why has a middlesborough manager who was always average got the england managers job,
Wow, just seen this post.
Absolute nutter.
Nice to be called a nutter about an absolute idiot who has no clue about football , i could pick 11 players tell them to play in the same position as they play for their club ask them them try hard hard and enjoy themselve and they would win most games,
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The fact that Southgate feels the issue is that we have no replacement for Phillips shows how incredibly limited he is as a manager...... Instead of finding a system that works best for the players he has at his disposal, he’s trying to shoehorn the players into the system he wants to play. I'm hoping that the players speak up and tell Southgate that they can't play with their collective hands tied... If they are allowed to play the attacking game that they are able to, then if we get beaten, at least it will be an entertaining watch...
We are rapidly turning into the international equivalent of a 1990's Arsenal...
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Other than Guehi I don’t think any of our starting 11 are used to playing a low block and soaking up pressure. They all play for teams who go 1-0 up and think they need to make it 3-0 to put it to bed.
Must be a hard shift when you know you’re better than the opposition.
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I knew nothing about Ghehi before the tournament started.
But then again, apart from watching MOTD on play back I don’t follow Premiership football anymore.
When I see Foden play for City I think he is the most exiting English player I’ve seen since Rashford burst on to the scene (a player who in my humble opinion should be in this squad) but after these first two games I’m thinking ‘Is it down to the player or the manager’ as to why Foden hasn’t torn two poor European sides defences apart or at least got on the scoresheet?
John Stones looks like a Beckenbauer when he plays in that City team. For England he looks like he’s just played his first two games at International level.
Harry Kane. Surely he’ll relish getting onto the balls played into the box from Saka? Not happened.
Declan Rice. Not seen him on one foraging run into the opposing half yet. Arsenal paid a Kings ransom for him because he does exactly that for them.
Jude Bellingham. ‘Schooled’ in Europe’s best academy’s in Germany & now a ‘star’ & Champion’s League winner with Real Madrid. Totally oblivious against Denmark.
And don’t get me started with how much this squad has been undermined by the loss of Kalvin effing Phillips!
Over to you then Gareth. We wait with baited breath.
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Lots of this is the typical negative reaction we get in every tournament,
Euro 2020 our second game was poor and we drew 0-0 with Scotland but then went on and reached the final, the last World Cup our second game was poor and we drew 0-0 with USA but went on to reach the quarters and being v unlucky to lose to probably the best team in the world.
This year we’ve been poor in our second game and drawn 1-1 with Denmark.
Every team has games in tournaments when they don’t perform, Germany last night, France in both games so far, Italy the other night etc etc
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England are just afraid to loose ..
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Same team and formation again except Gallagher’s turn to be the Kalvin Phillips replacement Southgate is desperate for.
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Same team and formation again except Gallagher’s turn to be the Kalvin Phillips replacement Southgate is desperate for.
Brilliant. That should help with the fatigue problem. Why bother taking a full squad??
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Declan rice interview………
because we are sitting in a low block people are thinking we are not fit enough
Why are we sitting in a low block, that is the issue :facepalm:
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I am getting so fed up about hearing the term ‘low block’. Where has this come from? Growing up it was never mentioned. I’m sure it happened but just not given an unnecessary label.
‘Transitions’ is another load of tosh
I’m not a football tactitian but some of these labels are either made up by analysts justifying their job, or by coaches/ performance analysts justifying their jobs
Either way - Southgate missed a trick in changing his team. I hope we have a good first half and then make some positive changes at half time. I’d give Shaw, Gordon, Palmer and Watkins a run out
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Low block has been around for a while it means the back 4 play deep and defend the final 3rd, if we are playing kane we need a high block with a high press to keep the ball in the opposition half otherwise drop kane we are so easy to play through the lines because the defence is to deep it reminds me of rovers against kings lynn we were so easy to play through
You usually play a low block when you have a slow back four which we do not have
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I don't think I will be watching this shite for 90 minutes. Not sure I will even get to half time.
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I don't think I will be watching this shite for 90 minutes. Not sure I will even get to half time.
Simple turn the television off
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I don't think I will be watching this shite for 90 minutes. Not sure I will even get to half time.
Simple turn the television off
Nah, I will wait to listen to Roy Keane giving his opinion on how shite we are then turn over to watch something else.
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I don't think I will be watching this shite for 90 minutes. Not sure I will even get to half time.
Im afraid you have to watch it your english :headbang:
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Well done on staying awake…
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Terrible , just terrible, Trippier has not once gone past Foden to provide an option, he gives Foden the ball and says go on kid you’re on your own, we are so unbalanced on the left hand side it’s unreal
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Well I don't know what a low block is but watched enough Italian football to know what defensive football is.
We kicked off and they never touched the ball, and our keeper had it at his feet three times before they touched it, absolutely pathetic.
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Slovenia playing 442 and not afraid to hoof a long ball. A breath of fresh (old school) air.
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Anything can happen in football, but I honestly can't see how this team will be able to beat any of the well fancied teams.
We just don't look in their class.
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We should be building this team around Foden and where to get the best out of him. He’s comfortably our best player.
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Would agree about trippier been poor all three games.
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Former Ireland striker Kevin Doyle on Irish TV talking about Southgate being so conservative: " if he had a garage full of Ferraris, he'd still want to drive his twenty year old banger".
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Would not say anything bad against any player, this is a bad manager playing defensive tactics which is totally boring, this tournament has proved attacking tactics are the way to proceed
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This is like watching paint dry
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It’s pathetic to watch. Lots of tippy tappy b*llocks. Glacial attack.
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Still snoring myself total bor fest
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Anything can happen in football, but I honestly can't see how this team will be able to beat any of the well fancied teams.
We just don't look in their class.
You think French have played well? Holland? Italy?
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Can we sack him and get Graham Potter in now?
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I thought the performance was better than the first two personally. Subs also looked lively, hopefully this make Southgate think.
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Can we sack him and get Graham Potter in now?
His goalscoring record was woeful.
England just look a bit scared. They dominated that but played far too safe. Still, I've not really seen many teams you'd fear. We'll play better against better teams. The winner will be the one with most luck.
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That was garbage……..again.
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Southgate needs to go he’s suffocating these players
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
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It was a much better performance against probably the best side we’ve played so far.
Topped the group now move on
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Well that was fun :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
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This is like watching paint dry
At least that might dribble occasionally.
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It was a much better performance against probably the best side we’ve played so far.
Topped the group now move on
I have to love your optimism hope you are right and we win but i cannot see it
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I just can't put my finger on it but i'm going for a limited and massively risk averse manager confusing a group of talented but unintelligent players.
There should of been a players mutiny out there tonight, following orders from this pathetic manager has resulted in another complete borefest and limited time for any sort of momentum and game time for players who could light up the competition but are just not able to deal with the pathetic team setup.
We did not deserve to go through tonight as group winners, we should of been thrown into the other side of the draw and made to play the better teams. I give him one thing he's been lucky, a match next sat against the Germans and getting his ass handed to him on a plate should of been his reward for throwing away another opportunity to make something of the talent he has.
He's done it twice already, lets see what this time brings, no one hold their breath.
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Well he named Shaw on the bench today so he must have been ready to play a part, what Southgate do with about 10 - 15 minutes to go? Take right back playing at left back off and switch the right back on the pitch to left back and bring Trent on at right back, a perfect chance to give Shaw some minutes and the team balance down the left
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
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We should be building this team around Foden and where to get the best out of him. He’s comfortably our best player.
Agree. Foden & our subs were our best players, kane, bellingham & gallacher poor i thought
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We should be building this team around Foden and where to get the best out of him. He’s comfortably our best player.
Agree. Foden & our subs were our best players, kane, bellingham & gallacher poor i thought
Kane and Bellingham have just been poor, period. Gallacher being asked to play the "Phillips role" does him no favours whatsoever.
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Absolute shite again. It is so so so boring watching England this tournament. How on earth does Southgate not know what team to put out. What’s the point in these international friendlies if we’re still experimenting 3 games in to a tournament.
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It was a much better performance against probably the best side we’ve played so far.
Topped the group now move on
Pleased you enjoyed it. I thought it was slow boring and awful
We have a squad full of talented footballers and we had 4 attempts at goal in 94 mins against a team from a country with 2.2 million people.
Southgate for crying out loud wake up and smell the coffee. You have created so much fear into this squad.
It’s horrific.
Why did you wait until the 89th min before Gordon came on. Seriously that was an embarrassing decision.
You gave him 5 mins to create a goal or score one.
I give up. What other manager would have done that.
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Whell donth Garweth, goth uth through thoo yetch anotcher major thournementh thock out pothithion.
Thorry, tho ditthicculth thoo sptheek with thung struck in sthide of mouth.
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The first player who needs dropping is not Trippier, Walker or Gallagher, it’s Kane. He’s dropping too deep therefore not leading the line properly, Alf Ramsey didn’t reinstate Jimmy Greaves when was fit, went with Geoff Hurst and we know how that ended. Greaves was twice, three times the player Hurst was, it’s all horses for courses etc
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Got all the hallmarks of us been out to the 1st good team we play to me.
They might of played for a draw but as a neutral watching it we were doing the same!
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I think playing better teams will suit us, more space for our attacking players.
Palmer, Mainoo both very good when they came on
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Another 90 mins of my life I’ll never get back. :suicide:
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Somebody needs to play Southgate the John Barnes rap from World in Motion.
He definitely didn't say "There's only one way to beat them. Play 50 passes in front of two disciplined banks of 4 then pass it back to Guehi."
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Some people have forgotten a phrase that served us well last season
'It's not how you start It's how you finish'
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I think playing better teams will suit us, more space for our attacking players.
Palmer, Mainoo both very good when they came on
Not sure. All our attacking players are used to playing high up the pitch and having lots of the ball.
Don’t see Foden or Bellingham been much danger when they get the ball on the edge of our box. The better a team is at keeping the ball the deeper we get and the harder it is to get out. A team could leave 40 yards of space behind them and we wouldn’t look to exploit it currently.
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This is like watching paint dry
At least that might dribble occasionally.
Oh well played sir!
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Our win in the first game playing this way was from an entertainment point of view the worst thing that could have happened. There needed to be some jeopardy for us to get us taking some risks.
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
We’ll see. I’ve defended Southgate so much to friends over the past few years but I’ve lost it with him now. I think he’ll pick the same side next time out as well.
We might have topped the group but it’s the easiest group in the competition and nobody else will top the group with as little as 5 points. I just watch this team and have zero idea what the plan is beyond stodgy build up and hoping for a moment of magic a some stage through one of the forwards. The sad thing is that it looks like the players have zero idea of what the plan is either.
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It's not so much the players selected but the cautious way they're asked to play. I'm convinced of that. Other than Gallagher who ran around like a headless chicken, Mainou's better positional sense brought a slight improvement in the second half. Add Palmer into that and it's probably our best XI.
For me, the overriding thing stopping us getting on the front foot, is the fear of getting caught on the break.
Rice's positioning often dictates the state of our play. He holds the middle ground, very rarely freeing himself up to receive the ball in a pocket as a pivot from our centre halves and full backs.
In the second half we got a glimpse of Stones bringing the ball further forward from our deep lying defence, which then draws the opposition out, creating the space for Rice and Mainou to get into those pockets. It's from there, we need the movement off the ball from our forward talent and overlapping full backs. We just need to be brave enough to make that tweak and have the desire to keep up the pace once we flick the switch.
My fear is, given Gareths history, we get stuck in an overcautious rut, and we can't sustain periods of pressure. So many times, we let teams off the hook by backing off. Croatia, Italy, France, all were under the cosh until we backed off and gave them a chance to regroup.
These players are itching to be let off the leash. This is your last chance Gareth.
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Feels like the leash has never been held tighter by Southgate, and can't see that changing now. He will stick with the same formation that simply doesn't work with the players we have available. To win this tournament we needed to be far more attacking minded but Southgate is just far too cautious for that.
Want to stay optimistic that we can kick on in the knockouts but really struggling to keep that optimism alive.
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We just don’t create anything of note. One good move in 94 minutes yesterday where Foden was about a yard offside and that was it.
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The only time we look like scoring is when risks are taken. I’d go as far to say that it’s worse than watching Rovers under Schofield. Players even seem afraid to run into empty space and as soon as any opponent even looks as though they might challenge for the ball, it is despatched backwards or sideways. You can play like that for a lifetime and never score a goal.
The most aggressive player in the side is Pickford.
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Feels like the leash has never been held tighter by Southgate, and can't see that changing now. He will still with the same formation that simply doesn't work with the players we have available. To win this tournament we needed to be far more attacking minded but Southgate is just far too cautious for that.
Want to stay optimistic that we can kick on in the knockouts but really struggling to keep that optimism alive.
Yes, it feels like we've become the Italy of old but without the ruthless tactical know how when it matters.
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
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Is Southgate Schofield in disguise??
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Is Southgate Schofield in disguise??
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAmilaEYnWJoBwt3nPQFocbRUFyzbp-_hi7A&s)
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
I’m sorry but that’s rubbish,
Both the managers you mentioned also got slagged off in major tournaments, both struggled in tournaments.
Looking back at those managers and teams with rose tinted specs.
Fact is this team and manager have been the most successful we’ve had in 60 years.
People will say it’s because he’s had the best team, he certainly didn’t inherit the best team and we’ve had squads better than this one in the past and done nothing.
We’ve reached the World Cup semi, a euros final and a World Cup quarter.
These a facts
Under all previous managers we never came near that kind of record.
But he’s won nothing, will be the response of many, but if you’re only measure of success is winning a major tournament then you’re setting yourself up for disappointment, fact is we’ve come closer in the last 8 years than we have for the previous 60
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
I’m sorry but that’s rubbish,
Both the managers you mentioned also got slagged off in major tournaments, both struggled in tournaments.
Looking back at those managers and teams with rose tinted specs.
Fact is this team and manager have been the most successful we’ve had in 60 years.
People will say it’s because he’s had the best team, he certainly didn’t inherit the best team and we’ve had squads better than this one in the past and done nothing.
We’ve reached the World Cup semi, a euros final and a World Cup quarter.
These a facts
Under all previous managers we never came near that kind of record.
But he’s won nothing, will be the response of many, but if you’re only measure of success is winning a major tournament then you’re setting yourself up for disappointment, fact is we’ve come closer in the last 8 years than we have for the previous 60
I admire your 100% blind faith in Gareth Southgate and his England team but..................It is boring to watch and there are no prizes for coming close.
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
I’m sorry but that’s rubbish,
Both the managers you mentioned also got slagged off in major tournaments, both struggled in tournaments.
Looking back at those managers and teams with rose tinted specs.
Fact is this team and manager have been the most successful we’ve had in 60 years.
People will say it’s because he’s had the best team, he certainly didn’t inherit the best team and we’ve had squads better than this one in the past and done nothing.
We’ve reached the World Cup semi, a euros final and a World Cup quarter.
These a facts
Under all previous managers we never came near that kind of record.
But he’s won nothing, will be the response of many, but if you’re only measure of success is winning a major tournament then you’re setting yourself up for disappointment, fact is we’ve come closer in the last 8 years than we have for the previous 60
Robson and Venables didn’t play turgid football did they.
Yes every manager gets criticised but come on dickos do you seriously think Southgate is going to win anything?
Is being the bridesmaid again OK with you. Should we always be happy with being runners up or semi finalists or maybe the Quarter finals are ok for little old England.
Come on Dickos we should be winning something with this squad. Well having a left back might help.
Look I have backed Southgate for years but this garbage is unacceptable whether we got through our group or not.
If Denmark had scored a late goal yesterday we would be playing Germany next. How do you think Southgate would have set us up against them. Do you think we can flick a switch and suddenly become world beaters.
No what GS has done is create a massive fear factor in the team. Safety 1st tactics which is stifling the life out of the players.
Listen if we go on to win it then I hold my hands up and say I was wrong. If we get to the semi final and get cheated by the ref or VAR then that’s unfortunate but if we go out playing this turgid 1st or 2nd gear football with the handbrake on then that’s unforgivable and Southgate is going to end up being vilified.
Every manager in the world would want to have this squad at their disposal.
Why is every single ex player and current English manager & 20 million fans saying the same thing about his team selection and set up. Yet Southgate is so blinkered and stubborn he can’t see it.
So sorry dickos what I posted was not rubbish.
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I feel sorry for Trippier. He’s not a left back, he’s got no left foot, it’s not his fault Southgate didn’t bring anyone with a left foot in that position apart from a crock.
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I feel sorry for Trippier. He’s not a left back, he’s got no left foot, it’s not his fault Southgate didn’t bring anyone with a left foot in that position apart from a crock.
Of course it’s not his fault. He isn’t going to refuse to play at left back is he.
Southgate is a buffoon not taking a fit left back. There is no other word for it.
What other International manager would pick o squad of 26 with one crocked left back in it?
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I feel sorry for Trippier. He’s not a left back, he’s got no left foot, it’s not his fault Southgate didn’t bring anyone with a left foot in that position apart from a crock.
Trippier didn’t once overlap or offer width, instead coming inside and play it back, shutting down any momentum in attack, Shaw was on the bench, with the knowledge that shaw wasn’t fully match fit he could have given him the last 20 mins, got some minutes into him and tell him to get down the left give us some width, if he wasn’t fit why was he named on the bench?
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
I’m sorry but that’s rubbish,
Both the managers you mentioned also got slagged off in major tournaments, both struggled in tournaments.
Looking back at those managers and teams with rose tinted specs.
Fact is this team and manager have been the most successful we’ve had in 60 years.
People will say it’s because he’s had the best team, he certainly didn’t inherit the best team and we’ve had squads better than this one in the past and done nothing.
We’ve reached the World Cup semi, a euros final and a World Cup quarter.
These a facts
Under all previous managers we never came near that kind of record.
But he’s won nothing, will be the response of many, but if you’re only measure of success is winning a major tournament then you’re setting yourself up for disappointment, fact is we’ve come closer in the last 8 years than we have for the previous 60
Robson and Venables didn’t play turgid football did they.
Yes every manager gets criticised but come on dickos do you seriously think Southgate is going to win anything?
Is being the bridesmaid again OK with you. Should we always be happy with being runners up or semi finalists or maybe the Quarter finals are ok for little old England.
Come on Dickos we should be winning something with this squad. Well having a left back might help.
Look I have backed Southgate for years but this garbage is unacceptable whether we got through our group or not.
If Denmark had scored a late goal yesterday we would be playing Germany next. How do you think Southgate would have set us up against them. Do you think we can flick a switch and suddenly become world beaters.
No what GS has done is create a massive fear factor in the team. Safety 1st tactics which is stifling the life out of the players.
Listen if we go on to win it then I hold my hands up and say I was wrong. If we get to the semi final and get cheated by the ref or VAR then that’s unfortunate but if we go out playing this turgid 1st or 2nd gear football with the handbrake on then that’s unforgivable and Southgate is going to end up being vilified.
Every manager in the world would want to have this squad at their disposal.
Why is every single ex player and current English manager & 20 million fans saying the same thing about his team selection and set up. Yet Southgate is so blinkered and stubborn he can’t see it.
So sorry dickos what I posted was not rubbish.
Yes we played turgid football under robson and venables, robson had the most abuses of any manager other than Taylor probably.
Even Euro 96 we were very poor in a lot of the games, and italia 90 we were dreadful in most of the games.
The facts are simple the last 8 years have been the best we’ve done in tournaments.
No team plays superb in the groups and then wins the competition, it never happens. The winners are usually the teams that grows into the tournament.
Germany, Portugal, Argentina in recent times for example.
We’re in the middle of a tournament and the negativity is outrageous, I can’t even listen to the radio. People are so entitled and think we should just be rocking up and winning, no wonder other countries can’t stand us.
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
I’m sorry but that’s rubbish,
Both the managers you mentioned also got slagged off in major tournaments, both struggled in tournaments.
Looking back at those managers and teams with rose tinted specs.
Fact is this team and manager have been the most successful we’ve had in 60 years.
People will say it’s because he’s had the best team, he certainly didn’t inherit the best team and we’ve had squads better than this one in the past and done nothing.
We’ve reached the World Cup semi, a euros final and a World Cup quarter.
These a facts
Under all previous managers we never came near that kind of record.
But he’s won nothing, will be the response of many, but if you’re only measure of success is winning a major tournament then you’re setting yourself up for disappointment, fact is we’ve come closer in the last 8 years than we have for the previous 60
Robson and Venables didn’t play turgid football did they.
Yes every manager gets criticised but come on dickos do you seriously think Southgate is going to win anything?
Is being the bridesmaid again OK with you. Should we always be happy with being runners up or semi finalists or maybe the Quarter finals are ok for little old England.
Come on Dickos we should be winning something with this squad. Well having a left back might help.
Look I have backed Southgate for years but this garbage is unacceptable whether we got through our group or not.
If Denmark had scored a late goal yesterday we would be playing Germany next. How do you think Southgate would have set us up against them. Do you think we can flick a switch and suddenly become world beaters.
No what GS has done is create a massive fear factor in the team. Safety 1st tactics which is stifling the life out of the players.
Listen if we go on to win it then I hold my hands up and say I was wrong. If we get to the semi final and get cheated by the ref or VAR then that’s unfortunate but if we go out playing this turgid 1st or 2nd gear football with the handbrake on then that’s unforgivable and Southgate is going to end up being vilified.
Every manager in the world would want to have this squad at their disposal.
Why is every single ex player and current English manager & 20 million fans saying the same thing about his team selection and set up. Yet Southgate is so blinkered and stubborn he can’t see it.
So sorry dickos what I posted was not rubbish.
Yes we played turgid football under robson and venables, robson had the most abuses of any manager other than Taylor probably.
Even Euro 96 we were very poor in a lot of the games, and italia 90 we were dreadful in most of the games.
The facts are simple the last 8 years have been the best we’ve done in tournaments.
No team plays superb in the groups and then wins the competition, it never happens. The winners are usually the teams that grows into the tournament.
Germany, Portugal, Argentina in recent times for example.
We’re in the middle of a tournament and the negativity is outrageous, I can’t even listen to the radio. People are so entitled and think we should just be rocking up and winning, no wonder other countries can’t stand us.
Well if you’re happy then that’s OK then. We will leave it at that.
I have agreed with most of your posts ref Rovers over the last year or so but we differ in opinions on England.
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The first player who needs dropping is not Trippier, Walker or Gallagher, it’s Kane. He’s dropping too deep therefore not leading the line properly, Alf Ramsey didn’t reinstate Jimmy Greaves when was fit, went with Geoff Hurst and we know how that ended. Greaves was twice, three times the player Hurst was, it’s all horses for courses etc
absolutely no way you drop Kane. He’s the best number 9 in the world. There’s also no issue with him dropping deep. He’s really good at it you just need runners beyond him which we don’t have in the 11 that’s been played so far.
We have to play foden as a 10 and have a winger who runs beyond him off the left. Look at the chances Kane created for Son by dropping deep at Spurs and for players like Rashford for England. You just need the right players around him.
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P45 for Gareth.
Robson & Venables, will be turning in their graves watching this garbage.
Heavens knows what Sir Alf Ramsey would make of it.
If we had the right manager we would have a fantastic team that would have blown away all 3 opponents we have had so far this Euros.
Giving Gordon 5 mins someone please tell me what that’s all about.
Disgrace. We were crying out for him from the 1st min.
Trippier never once tried an overlap with Foden or Bellingham. Not once. Not having a left footed left back is a shambles. It’s beyond any words I can find.
P45 for Gareth
I’m sorry but that’s rubbish,
Both the managers you mentioned also got slagged off in major tournaments, both struggled in tournaments.
Looking back at those managers and teams with rose tinted specs.
Fact is this team and manager have been the most successful we’ve had in 60 years.
People will say it’s because he’s had the best team, he certainly didn’t inherit the best team and we’ve had squads better than this one in the past and done nothing.
We’ve reached the World Cup semi, a euros final and a World Cup quarter.
These a facts
Under all previous managers we never came near that kind of record.
But he’s won nothing, will be the response of many, but if you’re only measure of success is winning a major tournament then you’re setting yourself up for disappointment, fact is we’ve come closer in the last 8 years than we have for the previous 60
Robson and Venables didn’t play turgid football did they.
Yes every manager gets criticised but come on dickos do you seriously think Southgate is going to win anything?
Is being the bridesmaid again OK with you. Should we always be happy with being runners up or semi finalists or maybe the Quarter finals are ok for little old England.
Come on Dickos we should be winning something with this squad. Well having a left back might help.
Look I have backed Southgate for years but this garbage is unacceptable whether we got through our group or not.
If Denmark had scored a late goal yesterday we would be playing Germany next. How do you think Southgate would have set us up against them. Do you think we can flick a switch and suddenly become world beaters.
No what GS has done is create a massive fear factor in the team. Safety 1st tactics which is stifling the life out of the players.
Listen if we go on to win it then I hold my hands up and say I was wrong. If we get to the semi final and get cheated by the ref or VAR then that’s unfortunate but if we go out playing this turgid 1st or 2nd gear football with the handbrake on then that’s unforgivable and Southgate is going to end up being vilified.
Every manager in the world would want to have this squad at their disposal.
Why is every single ex player and current English manager & 20 million fans saying the same thing about his team selection and set up. Yet Southgate is so blinkered and stubborn he can’t see it.
So sorry dickos what I posted was not rubbish.
Re: Robson.
Surely you are old enough to remember:
The 1984 EC qualifying campaign
The first two group matches of WC 86
The 1988 EC group
The furore after we drew to Ireland in the first match of WC 90, after labouring to qualify, then being awful in the warm up games
We were dreadful in those spells. Turgid would be a compliment.
The slate is now wiped clean for Southgate. Like it or not, England have done the job required of them and now have the luck of the draw on their side. I wouldn't be surprised to see us make the final now.
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Dickos - FFS get real. Open your eyes and look at the garbage that is being forced on us in the name of football. How can you defend that God awful mess that Mr Boregate has created.
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Dickos - FFS get real. Open your eyes and look at the garbage that is being forced on us in the name of football. How can you defend that God awful mess that Mr Boregate has created.
What are u talking about?
Nothing I’ve said is wrong, have another read again and tell me what bit of what I’ve written is incorrect?
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
We’ll see. I’ve defended Southgate so much to friends over the past few years but I’ve lost it with him now. I think he’ll pick the same side next time out as well.
We might have topped the group but it’s the easiest group in the competition and nobody else will top the group with as little as 5 points. I just watch this team and have zero idea what the plan is beyond stodgy build up and hoping for a moment of magic a some stage through one of the forwards. The sad thing is that it looks like the players have zero idea of what the plan is either.
Maybe not top the group with five points but Group E has been won with just four points.
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I’ve just arrived home from an area where Wi-Fi was almost impossible so I’ve missed a number of the previous posts. I did get the opportunity to see snippets of the three England games.
If anyone thinks that Southgate has the best England players at his disposal for years they’re in cloud cuckoo land. The midfield half asleep for the first and second game. At the last game Bellingham (the greatest thing since Marquis) guilty of stray passes I could go on. It’s OK blaming Southgate but this squad is over rated. Anyway let’s see what Sunday brings then hopefully both camps will be eating humble pie.
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It isn’t overrated. Bellingham Real Madrid player of the season. Foden Premier League player of the season. Kane top scorer in Germany. These players have all achieved at club level. Put them with Southgate and that’s when they all look garbage.
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Nothing to do with all the foreign world class players they pay with at their respective clubs?
I can't comment on the tournament as we are currently in the Pyrenees and I haven't nor intended even at home, to watch one minute of it
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Nothing to do with all the foreign world class players they pay with at their respective clubs?
I can't comment on the tournament as we are currently in the Pyrenees and I haven't nor intended even at home, to watch one minute of it
So the foreign ones are world class but the English players that play in those teams are overrated?
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No. The world class foreign players make it easier for our worldies to look what they are. Cruyff and Eusebio would look pedestrian with some of those guys around them.
BobG
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If you don't think Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Saka et al. aren't genuinely among the best in the world, then you aren't watching much football.
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You need to get out more, best in the world? There are squad players at the best clubs better. Kane may be an exception but why choose to go to Germany or was it that Spanish Italian clubs or PSG not interested? He went for trophies and what did he get?
Bellingham always going to look good with the players that RM have, but he's a luxury player. JMHO as someone who has watched football for 60 years but hey ho!
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You need to get out more, best in the world? There are squad players at the best clubs better. Kane may be an exception but why choose to go to Germany or was it that Spanish Italian clubs or PSG not interested? He went for trophies and what did he get?
Bellingham always going to look good with the players that RM have, but he's a luxury player. JMHO as someone who has watched football for 60 years but hey ho!
60 years and all you've learned is some daft old statements.
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Is that the best you can come up with a personal insult, you need to get out more
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No. The world class foreign players make it easier for our worldies to look what they are. Cruyff and Eusebio would look pedestrian with some of those guys around them.
BobG
Poor players will still look like poor players in a good team.
To suggest that Bellingham and Kane aren’t world class players is daft.
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Southgate would put eusobio at right back and cruyff at left back
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If we win it, so many people on here will be shouting it was only because of our easy route.
Just enjoy the tournament and analyse it afterwards.
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Said it the other day, international football is a poor standard generally. People expect Premier League standard performances and you just don’t get them. Cobbled together teams that don’t really gel.
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The austrias and georgias have nothing to lose, their knock out football starts straight away which is why they play no risk football.
The bigger teams often start off cagey and grow into the tournament, the last euros for instance we drew 0-0 with Scotland and won 2 games 1-0. Then once we qualified we beat Germany 2-0 and then Ukraine in the quarters 4-0.
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Watkins in for Kane, Kane was never the quickest and that year in Germany has made him slower, mainly because it’s a slower league than the English league
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Said it the other day, international football is a poor standard generally. People expect Premier League standard performances and you just don’t get them. Cobbled together teams that don’t really gel.
Utter rubbish, the England team in general has played together sufficient enough times to not have been cobbled together. Top players are able to adapt and only need a well drilled system to play to which is what training is about. England’s problem is they don’t have a plan and certainly aren’t training to it.
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Negatives , we do not score goals
Positives , we do not concede goals and once again have the perfect draw
Get ready for penalty shoot outs
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If we win it, so many people on here will be shouting it was only because of our easy route.
Just enjoy the tournament and analyse it afterwards.
If we win it, which i doubt very much, it will be inspite of having southgate as manager and not because of him. The downside would be the FA may wanna keep him on.
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Watkins in for Kane, Kane was never the quickest and that year in Germany has made him slower, mainly because it’s a slower league than the English league
I’d go with that but no way will sir gareth.
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Said it the other day, international football is a poor standard generally. People expect Premier League standard performances and you just don’t get them. Cobbled together teams that don’t really gel.
Premier league is that good that no teams got to an European semi final this season. Players overrated and supporters tribal wanting their players in an England team. We have been poor but the expectations have been over the top
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Watkins in for Kane, Kane was never the quickest and that year in Germany has made him slower, mainly because it’s a slower league than the English league
Watkins is an average premier league striker but is way off being a good international striker.
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The football England are playing isn’t great (and much of it has been frankly crap) but some of the abuse Southgate has had is completely out of order. I’m in Germany at the moment and it’s interesting that a number of nations with decent teams, who qualified without playing great football (Italy, Netherlands, France etc) just don’t care. For them it’s about the qualification, not the results, and they also know what it needs to win tournaments like this - endurance not sprinting.
We really do want the moon on a stick.
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Watkins in for Kane, Kane was never the quickest and that year in Germany has made him slower, mainly because it’s a slower league than the English league
Got to disagree with that Draytonian.
The German League is not slow build up football like it is in Italy and Spain.
It is quick very much like our league football. Maybe the quality of all the teams in their league are not as high a standard as our Premier League but in no way has that league made Kane slower.
The fact is he has never been a player who runs in behind and has never been really quick.
He is obviously not 100% up to speed yet after his injury late in the season.
Get him fit and he is a must starter in the team imo. He is a world class finisher but he is getting zero service at present. No striker in the world scores goals in the penalty box without service.
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It’s all about opinions, I totally agree he’s a world class finisher, but he’s never had the speed which defenders hate. I just think Watkins could stretch their defence and close them down quicker than Kane
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If we win it, so many people on here will be shouting it was only because of our easy route.
Just enjoy the tournament and analyse it afterwards.
If we win it, which i doubt very much, it will be inspite of having southgate as manager and not because of him. The downside would be the FA may wanna keep him on.
Yep this is the kind of thing that will be peddled out everywhere.
When we do well it’s in-spite of Southgate when we do shit it’s all down to Southgate.
We English have a very strange mindset when it comes to national team managers
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Spot on dickos.
The problem is that a large number who contribute on here have never managed people. In my experience its very difficult to get the best out of everyone at the same time.
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Spot on dickos.
The problem is that a large number who contribute on here have never managed people. In my experience its very difficult to get the best out of everyone at the same time.
No one said it isn’t difficult.
The fact is the best Managers do get the best out of the players and win euro’s and World Cups.
The fact that some people may not have managed others in their jobs is completely irrelevant.
Southgate has been given the riches of some extremely talented players who would be the envy of the vast majority of other countries and he seems to be incapable of getting them to play to their abilities.
He doesn’t even know what his best team is. That to me at this stage is farcical.
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The football England are playing isn’t great (and much of it has been frankly crap) but some of the abuse Southgate has had is completely out of order. I’m in Germany at the moment and it’s interesting that a number of nations with decent teams, who qualified without playing great football (Italy, Netherlands, France etc) just don’t care. For them it’s about the qualification, not the results, and they also know what it needs to win tournaments like this - endurance not sprinting.
We really do want the moon on a stick.
Well said Bradwell.
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Spot on dickos.
The problem is that a large number who contribute on here have never managed people. In my experience its very difficult to get the best out of everyone at the same time.
No one said it isn’t difficult.
The fact is the best Managers do get the best out of the players and win euro’s and World Cups.
The fact that some people may not have managed others in their jobs is completely irrelevant.
Southgate has been given the riches of some extremely talented players who would be the envy of the vast majority of other countries and he seems to be incapable of getting them to play to their abilities.
He doesn’t even know what his best team is. That to me at this stage is farcical.
Well of course he thought he knew his best team because that’s the one he played for the first two games. Now he’s looking for improvement by changing things.
That’s nothing different to any football club and any manager in the world
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Why didn’t he pick what he thought was his best team before the tournament to check it was his best team, instead of “experimenting” when we’re actually in the tournament. Seems amateur to me to be faffing around with the team because you don’t know who to play where, when we seem to have an international friendly about once a month.
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No. The world class foreign players make it easier for our worldies to look what they are. Cruyff and Eusebio would look pedestrian with some of those guys around them.
BobG
Poor players will still look like poor players in a good team.
To suggest that Bellingham and Kane aren’t world class players is daft.
Fair enough Hound. Can't argue with that. I still suspect though that with better players around him, a nediocre player should perform better. Dunno...
Bob
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No. The world class foreign players make it easier for our worldies to look what they are. Cruyff and Eusebio would look pedestrian with some of those guys around them.
BobG
Poor players will still look like poor players in a good team.
To suggest that Bellingham and Kane aren’t world class players is daft.
Fair enough Hound. Can't argue with that. I still suspect though that with better players around him, a nediocre player should perform better. Dunno...
Agreed, better players can improve mediocre players but in the case of Kane and Bellingham, they are far better than mediocrity.
Anyway, how are you?
Did you manage to get those fish and chips?
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It’s all about opinions, I totally agree he’s a world class finisher, but he’s never had the speed which defenders hate. I just think Watkins could stretch their defence and close them down quicker than Kane
Play quick players with Kane and he finds them better than most midfielders. He’s not just all about the goals. And there’s other ways to make defenders hate you than being quick of course!
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Why didn’t he pick what he thought was his best team before the tournament to check it was his best team, instead of “experimenting” when we’re actually in the tournament. Seems amateur to me to be faffing around with the team because you don’t know who to play where, when we seem to have an international friendly about once a month.
This kind of comment just emphasises that whatever he does he will get criticised. I’ve been listening all week to people on the radio saying he should’ve experimented more before the tournament started and then here he’s being criticised for experimenting too much before the tournament started.
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The biggest issue, in my humble opinion is the lack of an organiser and orchestrator. We have almost all of the component parts of a great team, but we just don’t seem to produce the kind of player who can pull it all together (a Kroos, Modric, Rodri etc). Someone to take the ball under pressure from the defence or Rice and dictate whether we need to speed up or slowdown.
Perhaps it’s because we coach them all to play at maximum speed in the EPL (Gallagher is the best example of this)?
I’d be tempted to give Wharton or Mainoo a proper go.
On man-management, and some of the earlier comments, it is bloody hard and I think Southgate is good at this. I’m not convinced by his tactical nous or coaching though. He should have built a coaching team around him to cover this, but seemingly hasn’t. I really do wonder what Steve Holland does (apart from pissing off Ben White).
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Why didn’t he pick what he thought was his best team before the tournament to check it was his best team, instead of “experimenting” when we’re actually in the tournament. Seems amateur to me to be faffing around with the team because you don’t know who to play where, when we seem to have an international friendly about once a month.
This kind of comment just emphasises that whatever he does he will get criticised. I’ve been listening all week to people on the radio saying he should’ve experimented more before the tournament started and then here he’s being criticised for experimenting too much before the tournament started.
Again dickos I’m with you. We have a lot of should haves on this forum.
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Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
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There are a few people living on another planet if they can’t see that GS’s tactics are flawed.
Yes we qualified but not because we played well enough to get them but because we got very lucky.
The fact is we could very easily have only drawn the first game against Serbia after we went to sleep in the second half. We should have gone on and won at least 3-0 but no we hang on for dear life at 1-0
2nd game we were shocking from start to finish and with better finishing from Denmark we would have lost that match.
3rd game we only drew because we had no idea how to break down a team he’ll bent on not losing.
Brings subs on 35/40 mins too late and starts again with a non existent left side.
We could very easily have ended up with only 2 points.
Yes i know we got 5 but seriously we got lucky.
Sorry if anyone can can pretend Southgate knows what he is doing then I really admire your loyalty to him but seriously don’t understand how you can think he is tactically astute.
I have been loyal to him right up to this tournament and kept backing him. We got to a World Cup semi and a Euro Final so fairs fair. Credit where it’s due.
But this tournament our football has been dire against 3 very mediocre teams. 3 of the worst 5 in the whole competition probably.
Slovakia are going to shut up shop so what is GS going to do.
Will he play Palmer and Gordon.
Gordon is a must for me even if Shaw plays so to give us genuine width on the left so we can stretch them both left and right side of the pitch.
We have an unbelievable opportunity to get to the final with the draw we have.
We must grasp it with both hands. GS has to be bold.
Sit on a lead again and we go out in the Qtr finals if not tomorrow.
Has Gareth learnt anything or are we going to get the same shocking boring negative England again?
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Worry that he’ll swap Saka for Palmer which on the face of it seems logical. Palmer might have the guile we’re missing.
But unless he makes a few other changes in the forwards areas that move will mean not one player in the team wants to run behind the opposition. That’s our biggest problem already.
Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Palmer will just be in each others way all game.
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Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
I'm sure he didn't say that. Are you watching Italy v Switzerland ? Now there's a reason to have a go at the manager.
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The biggest issue, in my humble opinion is the lack of an organiser and orchestrator. We have almost all of the component parts of a great team, but we just don’t seem to produce the kind of player who can pull it all together (a Kroos, Modric, Rodri etc). Someone to take the ball under pressure from the defence or Rice and dictate whether we need to speed up or slowdown.
Perhaps it’s because we coach them all to play at maximum speed in the EPL (Gallagher is the best example of this)?
I’d be tempted to give Wharton or Mainoo a proper go.
On man-management, and some of the earlier comments, it is bloody hard and I think Southgate is good at this. I’m not convinced by his tactical nous or coaching though. He should have built a coaching team around him to cover this, but seemingly hasn’t. I really do wonder what Steve Holland does (apart from pissing off Ben White).
Add Xhaka to that list of those who can dictate possession too.
This is exactly why the much demanded midfield of Bellingham-Rice-Foden wouldn’t work.
None of those players are deep lying orchestrators in midfield. And it would be defensively poor too.
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Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
-
Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
No I wasn’t moaning in previous tournaments except after we lost to Italy in the final.
We should have gone for the jugular but as usual we sat back and let Italy back in.
I am moaning now because GS hasn’t learnt from the past. Tactically he seems to have gone backwards and doesn’t understand if you try to put round pegs into square holes they don’t fit.
-
Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
No I wasn’t moaning in previous tournaments except after we lost to Italy in the final.
We should have gone for the jugular but as usual we sat back and let Italy back in.
I am moaning now because GS hasn’t learnt from the past. Tactically he seems to have gone backwards and doesn’t understand if you try to put round pegs into square holes they don’t fit.
A “should have” again.
Hindsight is a wonderful tool do try to be creative.
-
We have several posters who come on the forum when Rovers have had a bad day and have a gripe, but don’t often post after we have won.
They seem to be happier when they get the chance to have a pop at the manager, the team, the owners etc.
I think that the same applies to some peoples attitude towards the England team.
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In grant i trust , he plays attractive attacking football, the players give 100%, gareth plays borefest football , even if we do well it is boring football, we need to find our football soul , if we lose fair enough but this totally boring football i cannot watch, we might end wining the tournament but no body will be watching because we have all fell asleep
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In grant i trust , he plays attractive attacking football, the players give 100%, gareth plays borefest football , even if we do well it is boring football, we need to find our football soul , if we lose fair enough but this totally boring football i cannot watch, we might end wining the tournament but no body will be watching because we have all fell asleep
Don’t worry we won’t win it playing as we have.
There has to be a completely different mindset if we are to go on and win it.
Yes we are capable of winning it but will GS give these players the opportunity to do so.
He has to let them off their leash, play a balanced team and if that means leaving out a star player then so be it.
Ramsey left out Greaves, Thompson & Callaghan and 20 odd million football fans thought he was mad.
But he put the best 11 players to suit a way of playing. We went on to win the World Cup and he said we would before we kicked a ball.
Now that’s what I call a manger. Someone with a real plan and someone who knew how to get his players to carry it out. Someone with real conviction.
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Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
No I wasn’t moaning in previous tournaments except after we lost to Italy in the final.
We should have gone for the jugular but as usual we sat back and let Italy back in.
I am moaning now because GS hasn’t learnt from the past. Tactically he seems to have gone backwards and doesn’t understand if you try to put round pegs into square holes they don’t fit.
A “should have” again.
Hindsight is a wonderful tool do try to be creative.
Oh so you think we shouldn’t have then. You don’t need hindsight to know we should have gone all out to score a second goal.
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In grant i trust , he plays attractive attacking football, the players give 100%, gareth plays borefest football , even if we do well it is boring football, we need to find our football soul , if we lose fair enough but this totally boring football i cannot watch, we might end wining the tournament but no body will be watching because we have all fell asleep
Don’t worry we won’t win it playing as we have.
There has to be a completely different mindset if we are to go on and win it.
Yes we are capable of winning it but will GS give these players the opportunity to do so.
He has to let them off their leash, play a balanced team and if that means leaving out a star player then so be it.
Ramsey left out Greaves, Thompson & Callaghan and 20 odd million football fans thought he was mad.
But he put the best 11 players to suit a way of playing. We went on to win the World Cup and he said we would before we kicked a ball.
Now that’s what I call a manger. Someone with a real plan and someone who knew how to get his players to carry it out. Someone with real conviction.
Naughty naughty, Camps. Jimmy Greaves wasn't left out; he played in every group game and was injured in the third game against France.
Geoff Hurst was very lucky to get into the team, but he took his opportunity with aplombe.
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In grant i trust , he plays attractive attacking football, the players give 100%, gareth plays borefest football , even if we do well it is boring football, we need to find our football soul , if we lose fair enough but this totally boring football i cannot watch, we might end wining the tournament but no body will be watching because we have all fell asleep
Don’t worry we won’t win it playing as we have.
There has to be a completely different mindset if we are to go on and win it.
Yes we are capable of winning it but will GS give these players the opportunity to do so.
He has to let them off their leash, play a balanced team and if that means leaving out a star player then so be it.
Ramsey left out Greaves, Thompson & Callaghan and 20 odd million football fans thought he was mad.
But he put the best 11 players to suit a way of playing. We went on to win the World Cup and he said we would before we kicked a ball.
Now that’s what I call a manger. Someone with a real plan and someone who knew how to get his players to carry it out. Someone with real conviction.
Naughty naughty, Camps. Jimmy Greaves wasn't left out; he played in every group game and was injured in the third game against France.
Geoff Hurst was very lucky to get into the team, but he took his opportunity with aplombe.
Yes you are correct SS but he left out the 2 wingers and played Ball and Peters instead.
-
Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
No I wasn’t moaning in previous tournaments except after we lost to Italy in the final.
We should have gone for the jugular but as usual we sat back and let Italy back in.
I am moaning now because GS hasn’t learnt from the past. Tactically he seems to have gone backwards and doesn’t understand if you try to put round pegs into square holes they don’t fit.
After the Scotland game, this forum was full of people slagging Southgate off.
We then won the next two knock out games 2-0 and 4-0, and reached the final.
The folk who don’t like Southgate can’t bring themselves to say how well we did reaching our first ever euros final, would rather focussing on how we didn’t win the final.
Beggars belief really
-
Southgate would put eusobio at right back and cruyff at left back
Have a look at where Cruyff picked up the ball 30 seconds in to the 74 WC final to start the move that led to a penalty, 20 seconds later.
-
Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
No I wasn’t moaning in previous tournaments except after we lost to Italy in the final.
We should have gone for the jugular but as usual we sat back and let Italy back in.
I am moaning now because GS hasn’t learnt from the past. Tactically he seems to have gone backwards and doesn’t understand if you try to put round pegs into square holes they don’t fit.
After the Scotland game, this forum was full of people slagging Southgate off.
We then won the next two knock out games 2-0 and 4-0, and reached the final.
The folk who don’t like Southgate can’t bring themselves to say how well we did reaching our first ever euros final, would rather focussing on how we didn’t win the final.
Beggars belief really
I wasn’t one of those who moaned after the Scotland game dickos. It is their Cup Final v England and we never have an easy game against them.
But yes I was not happy that we didn’t beat Italy in the Final. The game was there for the taking but no we blew it because we sat back and tried to defend a 1-0 lead. That’s simply asking for trouble.
If you’re happy with England being bridesmaids every tournament or just losing semi finalists or Qtr finalists then that’s your prerogative.
Most England fans want us to win something. It’s 58 years since we have. If you think that’s ok then again that’s your right of course.
But don’t criticise those of us that want and expect this current England squad to win the Euros and maybe the next World Cup also.
We would imo have won both of those 2 competitions in 2021 & 2022 with a better manager.
If we didn’t produce world class players in this country or only had 1 in the team then we wouldn’t have much chance would we but no we have consistently had 4/5/6 in the squad. We had at least 4/5/6 in the 2021/22 competitions. We also had them in 2002/04, 2006/08, 2010/12, 2014/16 & 2018
We have the best League in the world. We have our all our top players playing alongside many of the best players in the world from other countries.
But we had managers in Erickson, Capello, McClaren and now Southgate who have all been failures.
Yes Southgate has been the best coach, he has consistently brought players through the age group teams and turned them into quality full international players.
His problem is he is tactically naive in match situations. He is far too cautious or negative in his approach to games and set up of his team. He stifles the players and creates a fear factor in the team.
If you’re happy with 2nd best fine but I want us to be the best, play on the front foot with pace and flair.
I want to see us win both the Euros and the World Cup.
Don’t criticise those of us who want our Country to be WINNERS dickos. It’s time we were. It’s shocking that it’s been 58 yrs. How many more years is it going to be?
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Southgate would put eusobio at right back and cruyff at left back
Have a look at where Cruyff picked up the ball 30 seconds in to the 74 WC final to start the move that led to a penalty, 20 seconds later.
He should have switched it over to Eusebio on the other side.
-
Oh come on guys, even pundits like Lineker who usually stays neutral are coming out and saying we’re playing shit. Whose fault do you think it is if not the manager?
Lineker et al were saying exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last euros and exactly the same after we drew 0-0 with the USA in the World Cup.
Nothing new here!
Our group stage is always like this but we’ve kicked on in the last few tournaments the opposite of what we did under all the previous managers.
All the negative nonsense being posted now on here would’ve been posted 3 years ago probably by the same folk. And then we reached the final.
It’s crazy
Just let the tournament play out and support the team, every tournament we have people pissing and whining about performances and the manager, even when we’re doing well, it drives me mental
No I wasn’t moaning in previous tournaments except after we lost to Italy in the final.
We should have gone for the jugular but as usual we sat back and let Italy back in.
I am moaning now because GS hasn’t learnt from the past. Tactically he seems to have gone backwards and doesn’t understand if you try to put round pegs into square holes they don’t fit.
After the Scotland game, this forum was full of people slagging Southgate off.
We then won the next two knock out games 2-0 and 4-0, and reached the final.
The folk who don’t like Southgate can’t bring themselves to say how well we did reaching our first ever euros final, would rather focussing on how we didn’t win the final.
Beggars belief really
I wasn’t one of those who moaned after the Scotland game dickos. It is their Cup Final v England and we never have an easy game against them.
But yes I was not happy that we didn’t beat Italy in the Final. The game was there for the taking but no we blew it because we sat back and tried to defend a 1-0 lead. That’s simply asking for trouble.
If you’re happy with England being bridesmaids every tournament or just losing semi finalists or Qtr finalists then that’s your prerogative.
Most England fans want us to win something. It’s 58 years since we have. If you think that’s ok then again that’s your right of course.
But don’t criticise those of us that want and expect this current England squad to win the Euros and maybe the next World Cup also.
We would imo have won both of those 2 competitions in 2021 & 2022 with a better manager.
If we didn’t produce world class players in this country or only had 1 in the team then we wouldn’t have much chance would we but no we have consistently had 4/5/6 in the squad. We had at least 4/5/6 in the 2021/22 competitions. We also had them in 2002/04, 2006/08, 2010/12, 2014/16 & 2018
We have the best League in the world. We have our all our top players playing alongside many of the best players in the world from other countries.
But we had managers in Erickson, Capello, McClaren and now Southgate who have all been failures.
Yes Southgate has been the best coach, he has consistently brought players through the age group teams and turned them into quality full international players.
His problem is he is tactically naive in match situations. He is far too cautious or negative in his approach to games and set up of his team. He stifles the players and creates a fear factor in the team.
If you’re happy with 2nd best fine but I want us to be the best, play on the front foot with pace and flair.
I want to see us win both the Euros and the World Cup.
Don’t criticise those of us who want our Country to be WINNERS dickos. It’s time we were. It’s shocking that it’s been 58 yrs. How many more years is it going to be?
Of course I’m not happy coming 2nd but I’m happy we have a national team that is competing with the top teams every tournament now.
This has never been the case in my lifetime,
I even heard some clown on the radio today saying even if we win it Southgate will be rated as the worst England manager of all time,
People just like moaning
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
We’ll see. I’ve defended Southgate so much to friends over the past few years but I’ve lost it with him now. I think he’ll pick the same side next time out as well.
We might have topped the group but it’s the easiest group in the competition and nobody else will top the group with as little as 5 points. I just watch this team and have zero idea what the plan is beyond stodgy build up and hoping for a moment of magic a some stage through one of the forwards. The sad thing is that it looks like the players have zero idea of what the plan is either.
Disappointing but not exactly surprising team selection for me - glad Mainoo’s in but that really shouldn’t the be only change. Clean slate each match though so hopefully this time the selection is actually justified.
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
We’ll see. I’ve defended Southgate so much to friends over the past few years but I’ve lost it with him now. I think he’ll pick the same side next time out as well.
We might have topped the group but it’s the easiest group in the competition and nobody else will top the group with as little as 5 points. I just watch this team and have zero idea what the plan is beyond stodgy build up and hoping for a moment of magic a some stage through one of the forwards. The sad thing is that it looks like the players have zero idea of what the plan is either.
Disappointing but not exactly surprising team selection for me - glad Mainoo’s in but that really shouldn’t the be only change. Clean slate each match though so hopefully this time the selection is actually justified.
Yeah I'd be a bit annoyed if I was Palmer to not have seen more minutes and then be expected to change a game with very little time left. Still think we're missing someone to run beyond Kane when he drops deep.
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Where is the left side again though.
Without Shaw we have to play Gordon don’t we because Trippier isn’t gong to run beyond Foden on the outside.
We need someone who will don’t we.
Just don’t understand Southgate and his thinking at all.
If we are 2-0 up at H/T then fair enough.
If it’s 0-0 then he has to change it at H/T and bring on both Palmer and Gordon& not wait until the 70th min or longer.
If it means pulling off Foden or Bellingham then do it Gareth.
This is a game we have to win and we don’t want the lottery of penalties do we.
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
We’ll see. I’ve defended Southgate so much to friends over the past few years but I’ve lost it with him now. I think he’ll pick the same side next time out as well.
We might have topped the group but it’s the easiest group in the competition and nobody else will top the group with as little as 5 points. I just watch this team and have zero idea what the plan is beyond stodgy build up and hoping for a moment of magic a some stage through one of the forwards. The sad thing is that it looks like the players have zero idea of what the plan is either.
Disappointing but not exactly surprising team selection for me - glad Mainoo’s in but that really shouldn’t the be only change. Clean slate each match though so hopefully this time the selection is actually justified.
Yeah I'd be a bit annoyed if I was Palmer to not have seen more minutes and then be expected to change a game with very little time left. Still think we're missing someone to run beyond Kane when he drops deep.
Bellingham should be doing that from his attacking midfield position.
Crikey even Biggins was capable of doing it for Rovers so why isn’t GS telling Bellingham to do it.
I will tell you why because GS is a safety 1st manager. No risks shall be taken. “Don’t you dare lads. They might break on us” I can hear his words now.
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1 change is Southgate being brave. Yes its a good change, but fcuk me what does the likes of Palmer have to do to get in the starting line up? Fear its gonna be more of the same.
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He doesn't even know what his best 11 is.
Well he thought he did as he played the same team twice.
But he won’t do now, those subs made us much better
We’ll see. I’ve defended Southgate so much to friends over the past few years but I’ve lost it with him now. I think he’ll pick the same side next time out as well.
We might have topped the group but it’s the easiest group in the competition and nobody else will top the group with as little as 5 points. I just watch this team and have zero idea what the plan is beyond stodgy build up and hoping for a moment of magic a some stage through one of the forwards. The sad thing is that it looks like the players have zero idea of what the plan is either.
Disappointing but not exactly surprising team selection for me - glad Mainoo’s in but that really shouldn’t the be only change. Clean slate each match though so hopefully this time the selection is actually justified.
Yeah I'd be a bit annoyed if I was Palmer to not have seen more minutes and then be expected to change a game with very little time left. Still think we're missing someone to run beyond Kane when he drops deep.
Bellingham should be doing that from his attacking midfield position.
Crikey even Biggins was capable of doing it for Rovers so why isn’t GS telling Bellingham to do it.
I will tell you why because GS is a safety 1st manager. No risks shall be taken. “Don’t you dare lads. They might break on us” I can hear his words now.
Not necessarily - one of the reasons for my post was that Sterling did it to great effect for England 2018 - 2021 as a copy of what worked for Son at Spurs. It may be a directive now, or it may be that Palmer/Saka/Foden can't do it. Perhaps this is where Gordon would come into his own.
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1-0 down and it could have been 4 in 1st 25 mins.
Job on now. See what GS does at H/T if we are still losing.
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Schofield ball at its finest
-
And we thought Italy were bad!!!
-
This is more embarrassing than the 2016 Iceland defeat
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Please take trippier off .
-
Taxi for Southgate.
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Please take trippier off .
One of us may as well stand there collect the ball and play it back, it’s criminal we haven’t gone to the Euros without a fit Left Back, may as well throw Shaw on for a half now, give us some penetration down the left
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If we lose this, then GS must show some integrity and manliness and resign immediately.
This is atrocious.
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Indefensible. Absolute disgrace that first half.
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This is almost Schofieldesque absolutely dire
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It's utter shite isn't it! There only hope is that Slovakia run out of steam and do something daft.
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Absolutely appalling.
What’s the betting he makes no changes at half time?
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Has to be 3 subs at H/T
Palmer and Gordon both on.
We have just witnessed a shambles of a first half performance.
Slovakia must be laughing in that changing room how easy it has been for them.
Do we want this or not. The answer is coming up now.
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If we lose this, then GS must show some integrity and manliness and resign immediately.
This is atrocious.
Apparently he forgot to do a postal election vote and has a cunning plan to lose so he can get home to vote for Sunak on Thursday,
some of our team couldn't even put a cross on a piece of paper never mind on the pitch
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No changes at half time - the man is clueless!
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Trippier is playing so high he is playing left midfield and mainoo is dropping in to the back 4 to cover when we lose the ball, set piece delivery has been the only bright spot so far, formation is shocking
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On the plus side, we won't have to listen to Lee Dixon anymore.
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Embarrassing for a professional to be caught offside there, never mind one of Fodens ability.
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60 mins still no changes.
Unbelievable. :headbang:
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Dickos - where are you?????
Your man is clueless
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80min and one change. This guy is peak Schofield
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Sterry would have had a better gdd as he st right back then Walker today.
Look like they’ve never met each other before.
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Foden is useless without his Man city superstars alongside him.
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What an embarrassment.
Not one cross from either by line in 93 mins.
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Would you believe it
We have got lucky. Great finish from Jude.
We never looked like scoring all game.
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Cannot understand southgates tactics. The man is tactically inept.
I thank god we have a manager like grant who knows how to change it up where needed.
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Get in.!!
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Would you believe it
We have got lucky. Great finish from Jude.
We never looked like scoring all game.
For 90 odd minutes it was dogshite but you forgot about Rice hitting the post.?
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Get in boys.
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Hope we got for a 3rd now get used to playing positively
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
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Would you believe it
We have got lucky. Great finish from Jude.
We never looked like scoring all game.
For 90 odd minutes it was dogshite but you forgot about Rice hitting the post.?
Sorry yes but even that wasn’t on target. It hit the post. Yes it was a good strike of course.
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Unbelievable.
Just shows if subs had come on at H/T we might have won in normal time. In fact we probably would have done.
What has Gordon done to upset GS? Oh he fell off his bike. That must be it.
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Gareth knew what he was doing by sticking to his guns. dickos agrees with me.
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
The performance hadn’t been good enough, as a team, that these players should deliver.
We might get the result but performances must improve to have any chance against the better ranked nations:
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
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2 goals from going direct…Do it more!
Been very lucky here but it could be the rocket up the backside they need going forward.
There should be more camaraderie after this comeback in the squad too.
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
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We are sitting back again instead of going for the killer goal.
Will we never learn.
Southgate has to be the most tactically inept manager in the history of English football.
Sorry second worst, forgot about Schofield.
Second thoughts maybe he is worse than Schofield.
Seriously though, what is it that makes GS think all is ok when we are losing 1-0 and has only made one change in the 73rd min.
It’s beyond any kind of logic. He is living in his own little world and not the one 99% of us are in.
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
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2 shots on target.
2 goals.
It’s quite simple what England need to do more of.
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
Better at what? We were losing 1-0 for 95 mins weren’t we.
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We are sitting back again instead of going for the killer goal.
Will we never learn.
Southgate has to be the most tactically inept manager in the history of English football.
Sorry second worst, forgot about Schofield.
Second thoughts maybe he is worse than Schofield.
Seriously though, what is it that makes GS think all is ok when we are losing 1-0 and has only made one change in the 73rd min.
It’s beyond any kind of logic. He is living in his own little world and not the one 99% of us are in.
The moment we get a nose in front it’s just let’s shut up shop and retreat 20 yards. Have to be brave and push for more if we’re to win anything
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
Better at what? We were losing 1-0 for 95 mins weren’t we.
And now?
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
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We are sitting back again instead of going for the killer goal.
Will we never learn.
Southgate has to be the most tactically inept manager in the history of English football.
Sorry second worst, forgot about Schofield.
Second thoughts maybe he is worse than Schofield.
Seriously though, what is it that makes GS think all is ok when we are losing 1-0 and has only made one change in the 73rd min.
It’s beyond any kind of logic. He is living in his own little world and not the one 99% of us are in.
The moment we get a nose in front it’s just let’s shut up shop and retreat 20 yards. Have to be brave and push for more if we’re to win anything
Not under this manager. He won’t change anything. Stubborn, blinkered, 2 words that describe him.
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Well done Gareth Quarter Finals again.
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That was worse than getting teeth pulled.
How have we got away with that I don’t know.
Massive improvement required v Switzerland or we are dead meat.
-
Scraped through in my opinion.
Game won, but the tempo, the confidence, the belief in going forward and taking risks to make things happen in the final third were distinctly lacking as they have been all tournament.
Why sit back once we get to 2-1.?
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Well done Gareth Quarter Finals again.
You’re having a laugh. So you think that win was down to good management.
I assume you’re on a wind up Goole Rover.
-
Feels like that little run McSheffrey put together right at start of the 2022/23 season.
-
Jude Belilingham was not scoring over head kicks under McSheffrey.
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Someone else on a wind up it seems. We were not comfortable for almost the entire 121 mins.
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Someone else on a wind up it seems. We were not comfortable for almost the entire 121 mins.
Embarrassing, negative comment from someone waiting for the team to fail.
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That was cr*p. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Imagine the meltdown on here if DRFC play like that in our first 4 games next season. It has been utterly awful.
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Knocking it sideways without threatening while you’re 1-0 behind is not dominating the game.
-
Peak Southgate performance. Do nothing all game, pass it behind 11 opposition players all game, give Pickford the ball at every opportunity, and rely on a superstar player to provide a bit of magic.
Anyone saying that was a good performance is clearly on a wind up.
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There isn't or shouldn't be anybody coming out of that game with any credit least of all Southgate .
We simply got away with one , we were absolutely dreadful and on any other night we'd have gone out .
However sometimes games like this are the turning point , we wouldn't be the first nation to cough , splutter and somehow get it done and then go on to win the bloody thing .
We aren't generally that kind of nation that does it this way , just not in our mentality like you see Argentina or Italy do it .
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Lets not white wash this performance it was shocking, we won because we have world class players who can score from nothing, they parked the bus second half and we struggled to break them down, after we scored the second we parked the bus and they nearly scored, formation, tactics in game management Gareth has no idea. Are any of you confident we will the next match?
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Do you agree England weren’t comfortable up until the 95th minute?
Folks are concerned about the overall performance, which is where we will struggle against better sides.
-
Maybe for once we have the luck to go all the way, but lets not get away from it, that was dire
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Do you agree England weren’t comfortable up until the 95th minute?
Folks are concerned about the overall performance, which is where we will struggle against better sides.
Tell me about the overall performance. In stats or any other terms you wish, vs Slovakia ( the team we were playing). I'm all ears.
-
On the plus side, we won't have to listen to Lee Dixon anymore.
Me?
-
Lucky Lucky Lucky, poor football for that level!
-
Dickos - where are you?????
Your man is clueless
I’m here!
Where are u?
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Pretty sure anyone whos defending Southgate & his “ tactics” are on a wind up mission. To not make any subs at h/t is beyond belief, England were awful but somehow we got through. Our luck will run out soon unless Southgate makes changes, which i doubt.
-
Lucky Lucky Lucky, poor football for that level!
What does that mean Kato?
Far better in any quantifiable or qualifiable metrics and won in a knock out competition. All ears here.
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Someone else on a wind up it seems. We were not comfortable for almost the entire 121 mins.
Embarrassing, negative comment from someone waiting for the team to fail.
There is no one in the entire country that wants England to win this Euro’s than me Copps is Magic.
Don’t be so ridiculously insulting.
I have backed Southgate year after year. But this has been awful so far whether we have won or not.
If you think we can play like that and be European Champions then you’re deluded.
Luck only lasts so long. What we need are performances.
You can only win a very limited number of games playing badly. Our luck will run out playing like this.
Remember what SOD used to say continually. Performances performances performances.
Play well consistently and you will win many more than you will lose.
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On the plus side, we won't have to listen to Lee Dixon anymore.
Me?
eh?
-
Thing is. We're not getting any better. It's just technically and tactically inept. Pitiful and an insult to the beautiful game.
-
On the plus side, we won't have to listen to Lee Dixon anymore.
Me?
eh?
Sorry, I’ve had a few beers
My name is Lee dixon :)
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Pitiful and an insult to the beautiful game.
We've reached the top of Mount Hyperbole.
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We weren’t great today but we were the side that looked the most likely and it could’ve been a comfortable victory.
At some point we will click
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Oddly I'm just enjoying that. Haven't cheered an equaliser that much since Leo at Scunny. Utter shit but yet if that were a Rovers game we'd be happy with grinding it out.
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We weren’t great today but we were the side that looked the most likely and it could’ve been a comfortable victory.
At some point we will click
Really? I always admire your optimism but that's stretching it. We're good at making things very uncomfortable.
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The only team England have to defeat now is the nation.
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Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Do you agree England weren’t comfortable up until the 95th minute?
Folks are concerned about the overall performance, which is where we will struggle against better sides.
Tell me about the overall performance. In stats or any other terms you wish, vs Slovakia ( the team we were playing). I'm all ears.
It’s not about whether we were better than Slovakia however you may measure it. It’s about the quality of the performance.
Can you not see that we would be very unlikely to beat better teams like France, Spain, Germany playing like we have over the first 4 games?
Yes results are everything to win tournaments but it’s far better for the watching public if at least some of the performances inspire confidence.??
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Oddly I'm just enjoying that. Haven't cheered an equaliser that much since Leo at Scunny. Utter shit but yet if that were a Rovers game we'd be happy with grinding it out.
Barrow?
-
Wow. Not deserved but we’ll take it!
Not deserved?
On what metrics? It can't be any vs Slovakia.
All of them
Name me one.
Sorry I watch the game with my eyes not through some stat to filter. We were shite but if your stats say otherwise I bet you enjoyed every minute.
Is this serious or a wind up?
You don't need stats to tell you England have been the far better team in this game.
We’re watching different games.
I'm watching a game where England are ahead and comfortable, who are you watching?
Do you agree England weren’t comfortable up until the 95th minute?
Folks are concerned about the overall performance, which is where we will struggle against better sides.
Tell me about the overall performance. In stats or any other terms you wish, vs Slovakia ( the team we were playing). I'm all ears.
It’s not about whether we were better than Slovakia however you may measure it. It’s about the quality of the performance.
Can you not see that we would be very unlikely to beat better teams like France, Spain, Germany playing like we have over the first 4 games?
Yes results are everything to win tournaments but it’s far better for the watching public if at least some of the performances inspire confidence.??
Just to point out spain are currently losing to Georgia....
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Putting Toney on was a good decision he offered a physical presence up top but he should have been on a lot sooner.
Thought Walker was really poor. Have his legs finally gone or is he injured? His crossing was atrocious, I’m surprised Trent wasn’t put on when we needed a goal.
We have to hope Shaw is back for Saturday because that left side is so clunky. He won’t do it but Foden doesn’t run in behind and we need that player playing off Kane! Play Gordon!!
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Did some posters not notice WE WON THE DAMN GAME. I don't care how we did it, we still ground out a win. Anyone would think the team are on the plane back already. Gareth and the team have not yet let us down and how can we expect to go? Win the tournament only and anything else they are all shite?? What a bunch of fckng whingers football fans are. At least moan AFTER we go out.
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Fantastic result, but absolutely dire football.
In fairness though, if we reach the final playing crap football but win none of us will care
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Did some posters not notice WE WON THE DAMN GAME. I don't care how we did it, we still ground out a win. Anyone would think the team are on the plane back already. Gareth and the team have not yet let us down and how can we expect to go? Win the tournament only and anything else they are all shite?? What a bunch of fckng whingers football fans are. At least moan AFTER we go out.
You’re missing the point. We very nearly were out, if it wasn’t for an overhead kick from our man from Real Madrid in the last minute of stoppage time.
It shouldn’t be this difficult. Maybe if we were grinding out results against the best in the world, but we’re struggling to beat teams ranked much lower than we are.
It doesn’t have to be like this. The reason it is like this is because of the manager.
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Did some posters not notice WE WON THE DAMN GAME. I don't care how we did it, we still ground out a win. Anyone would think the team are on the plane back already. Gareth and the team have not yet let us down and how can we expect to go? Win the tournament only and anything else they are all shite?? What a bunch of fckng whingers football fans are. At least moan AFTER we go out.
Listen to the England fans in the stadium and the tv pundits. Yes we won, which is ultimately all we want, but the inadequacies of the performance are worrying for future games, aren’t they?
Slovakia lead for ages, and we equalised with less than 90 seconds remaining. Despite the result, we should be better than that?
Spain vs Georgia, much better to watch.
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Dickos - where are you?????
Your man is clueless
I’m here!
Where are u?
Sorry dickos you’re getting all the fire, they’re leaving me alone. Well done Gareth.
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Did some posters not notice WE WON THE DAMN GAME. I don't care how we did it, we still ground out a win. Anyone would think the team are on the plane back already. Gareth and the team have not yet let us down and how can we expect to go? Win the tournament only and anything else they are all shite?? What a bunch of fckng whingers football fans are. At least moan AFTER we go out.
Listen to the England fans in the stadium and the tv pundits. Yes we won, which is ultimately all we want, but the inadequacies of the performance are worrying for future games, aren’t they?
Slovakia lead for ages, and we equalised with less than 90 seconds remaining. Despite the result, we should be better than that?
Spain vs Georgia, much better to watch.
Honestly couldn’t care less who is better to watch, in tournament football all that matters is the result
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Yes, in any one particular game. But the performance does not inspire confidence for games against better sides.
I’m delighted we are through, but we have much improvement to do if we want the trophy.
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We won’t get a result against the Swiss if we play like we have in every game so far.
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We won’t get a result against the Swiss if we play like we have in every game so far.
Yes, precisely. I want us to win, but we need to go up a gear or two, otherwise the Swiss may well roll us over..
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As Roy Keane said, playing against better teams usually means you play better yourself.
We will improve.
I think he might drop Foden
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I do think we will improve against better sides, more space likely.
Is it rosy if Kane scores the header, Foden stays onside and Rice doesn't hit the post?
I do think he left it too long to change and I'm not convinced the setup works either but we did see them dig in and they didn't stop. They call it character but it is important. We've seen the other big countries do this for years, about time we rode our luck. Can we kick on? I'm not sure but we're still in it.
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The result is all that matters :headbang: you get the basics right and the results follow , i have no idea how people are defending gs he has no idea
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I don't understand why this England team does the same thing every time at set pieces, namely lob hopeful balls into the box from corners or shoot direct at goal from free kicks just outside the box. Don't they practice anything on the training ground ? It's no wonder we struggle against inferior opposition, we are so predictable.
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How anyone can defend that performance or any performance in this competition I have absolutely no idea.
You can literally see the frustration and confusion in the players faces. They have no idea what it is they are supposed to be doing the majority of the time because they are being asked to do the complete opposite to any manager in the world it appears.
Everyone has been saying Southgate needs to make changes to his tactics, formations, starting XI's all tournament and they only position he has changed is the one defensive midfielder.
We're poor defensively and have a plethora of attacking talent in the squad but yet Southgate continues with this slow, passive, poor passing tactic that every opposition manager knows now and exploits.
We were so so so lucky today and if we play the same tactics against Switzerland we simply will get hammered!
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Lucky Lucky Lucky, poor football for that level!
What does that mean Kato?
Far better in any quantifiable or qualifiable metrics and won in a knock out competition. All ears here.
It means exactly what it says CIM. And you seem to be out of step with people who have played the game at the highest level. But hey, as long as you're happy living in cloud cuckoo land....
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We were so so so lucky today and if we play the same tactics against Switzerland we simply will get hammered!
Happy to take that bet, any odds you want?
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The result is all that matters :headbang: you get the basics right and the results follow , i have no idea how people are defending gs he has no idea
We’re in the quarter finals for the 4th tournament in a row. Never happened before
What a manager
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15,000 views, come on guys post your ideas, this guy has no idea we need a new manager with at least european top class experience not a manager who Got middlsborough relegated, why have we not asked for a manager who has managed a top flight european club,
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The result is all that matters :headbang: you get the basics right and the results follow , i have no idea how people are defending gs he has no idea
We’re in the quarter finals for the 4th tournament in a row. Never happened before
What a manager
How high do you set your bar with this group of players, more importantly this manager?
We were seconds away from being dumped out of the competition by bloody Slovakia!
To keep on shouting ‘it's the result that matters’ merely shows you to be a sheep following the herd.
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Spain have a plan, they have a good manager, a progressive team and it’s just a matter of time. Can’t see anyone looking forward to playing them - fortunately, we’ll not be meeting them.
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Gaizka Mendieta who has played with and under southgate on itv has summed it up, said that southgate is a defensive minded person and will always look to not concede first and will not get the best out of the attacking talent england have, and then said that southgate would not change.
England have some of the best attacking players in the world right now. But also have one of the most defensive minded manager inbthe world. Good luck to him this tournemant but he has to be removed after.
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So as I’ve said before, who replaces Gareth Southgate ? Who happens to be the 2nd most successful manager in England’s history.
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But yet we are in the quarter finals again. Say what you want but he bees the most successful England manager since sir alf Ramsey. Have we played well this euros? In parts yes we have shown whats in the team. However for me we have shown what we are and that's a new squad of players not yet working as a well oiled machine. Can you blame the manager for that? Simply put yes imo. Why on earth after doing so well in the last few tournaments did he decide to bring 12 new players. That's almost half the squad. How would a club side play with 12 new additions in the first few games? Now some was forced but he's made some massive errors with his selection for this competition. Poor management imo. He's failed in a lot of things imo but the facts are under his stewardship we have reached another q finals. Tonight was poor for the most part against a side who grafted and defend the whole 2nd half and made it very difficult for us to break them down. Let's hope we improve for the next game and put on a show to restore some faith among fans.
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Kane should have scored his header, Rice hit the post, Foden with a disallowed goal by cm's, Bellingham scores a worldy. Not to mention the defence - who looked like conceding .... exactly only once (and did).
It was a dominant performance from England. 1st or last minute, class comes through in the end. Very confident for the quarter.
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Gaizka Mendieta who has played with and under southgate on itv has summed it up, said that southgate is a defensive minded person and will always look to not concede first and will not get the best out of the attacking talent england have, and then said that southgate would not change.
England have some of the best attacking players in the world right now. But also have one of the most defensive minded manager inbthe world. Good luck to him this tournemant but he has to be removed after.
Best attacking players in the world ? If you're a Thorney you've been spending too much time talking to The Chaff King.
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Kane should have scored his header, Rice hit the post, Foden with a disallowed goal by cm's, Bellingham scores a worldy. Not to mention the defence - who looked like conceding .... exactly only once (and did).
It was a dominant performance from England. 1st or last minute, class comes through in the end. Very confident for the quarter.
Dominante was spain tonight. Not England who after 93mins was 1-0 down. I really can only think you are fishing for bites and are getting them.
Yes England are in the QF. But look at the results
1-0 win over serbia (ranked 32 in the world)
1-1 with denmark (ranked 21)
0-0 v slovenia (ranked 57)
A 2-1 win in extra time after equalising in the 94th minute with their 1st shot on target against Slovakia (ranked 45)
Surely the quarter finals should be a must with playing these sort of teams. England have been blessed with a very kind draw.
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Gaizka Mendieta who has played with and under southgate on itv has summed it up, said that southgate is a defensive minded person and will always look to not concede first and will not get the best out of the attacking talent england have, and then said that southgate would not change.
England have some of the best attacking players in the world right now. But also have one of the most defensive minded manager inbthe world. Good luck to him this tournemant but he has to be removed after.
Best attacking players in the world ? If you're a Thorney you've been spending too much time talking to The Chaff King.
So you dont think that in players like bellingham, foden, kane that England have some of the best attaviing players?
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The result is all that matters :headbang: you get the basics right and the results follow , i have no idea how people are defending gs he has no idea
We’re in the quarter finals for the 4th tournament in a row. Never happened before
What a manager
How high do you set your bar with this group of players, more importantly this manager?
We were seconds away from being dumped out of the competition by bloody Slovakia!
To keep on shouting ‘it's the result that matters’ merely shows you to be a sheep following the herd.
Not really
Of course the result is all that matters
Italia 90 we were shite in most games but reached the semis, Euro 96 we were shite in most games but we reached the semis.
These two tournaments are looked back with rose tinted specs.
Southgate has got us doing far better than any other manager in major tournaments and however much people like you don’t like it, it’s a fact
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How anyone can defend that performance or any performance in this competition I have absolutely no idea.
You can literally see the frustration and confusion in the players faces. They have no idea what it is they are supposed to be doing the majority of the time because they are being asked to do the complete opposite to any manager in the world it appears.
Everyone has been saying Southgate needs to make changes to his tactics, formations, starting XI's all tournament and they only position he has changed is the one defensive midfielder.
We're poor defensively and have a plethora of attacking talent in the squad but yet Southgate continues with this slow, passive, poor passing tactic that every opposition manager knows now and exploits.
We were so so so lucky today and if we play the same tactics against Switzerland we simply will get hammered!
Well we aren’t poor defensively I’m afraid. That’s pretty obvious
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Our players look lethargic and while we keep saying we have great attacking talent we're not creating much. They all want to pick up the ball in front of Kane, take a touch and lay it back. Foden is left footed but his first instinct is to cut inside off the left wing.
We need dynamism and players running beyond Kane. He needs to drop Foden for me. Spain are the benchmark.
Funnily enough I saw Trippier further forward in more dangerous positions than Foden. But another cutting back inside.
Toney made a difference and maybe he can play alongside Kane. The change in tactics made us less predictable.
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Gaizka Mendieta who has played with and under southgate on itv has summed it up, said that southgate is a defensive minded person and will always look to not concede first and will not get the best out of the attacking talent england have, and then said that southgate would not change.
England have some of the best attacking players in the world right now. But also have one of the most defensive minded manager inbthe world. Good luck to him this tournemant but he has to be removed after.
We decided in Spring 1990 that we had to get rid of Bobby Robson after the World Cup.
We replaced him with Graham Taylor...
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Indeed. Be careful what you wish for.....
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Guehi, is suspended for the next match, there is a choice between Dunk, Konsa, or Gomez to come in, for me it should be Konsa
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Lucky Lucky Lucky, poor football for that level!
What does that mean Kato?
Far better in any quantifiable or qualifiable metrics and won in a knock out competition. All ears here.
Not that I think it really matters, but I’ve seen 2 xG comparisons that both have Slovakia as higher. Which goes along with what I saw.
I thought we looked much more shaky defensively last night. Some loose passes and they got in behind us a few times before the goal - we didn’t look right defensively at all in the first half.
We improved second half as the centre halves actually started looking to play forward passes and even move forward with the ball themselves, as did Rice. But we still failed to create much and although the equaliser was brilliant, it was one of those that a lot of the time wouldn’t come off. Delighted that we pushed forward for the winner (and got it) so quickly, but very disappointed that after that we just put 9 or even 10 men behind the ball and invited the pressure back on. A better team would have punished us for that. I guess that’s Southgate’s way, though, and we’ll continue to limp on until we come a cropper against the first top side that we play. I still have zero optimism for improvements going forward.
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We don't seem to have the desire or patience to play pass and move possession football. We're scared of playing sustained periods of 'one touch pass' as usually it'll end up with someone hoofing it, or playing a blind pass.
As others have said, we're clunky and clumsy with rare raids into the oppositions box. The quality of our crossing and set pieces are terrible for international standard matches.
The second half of extra time was awful bearing in mind, I bet 99% of all footy fans were shouting to keep the ball, and we just kept gifting it back. I swear Gareths team talk at the ET break went summat like "Right boys, stay in shape, let them have the ball and hope the f*ck they don’t score'"
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We haven’t played well the balance of the side especially on the left is not good. But if we have some the best attacking players in the world which is hype really why haven’t they shown it.
Foden every body is clamouring for as been poor yet Musiala who has played left of a front three and he doesn’t for Bayern as looked far better, he also doesn’t score enough goals at international level. He should have last night and made a basic error of getting in front of the ball. Saka whose second behind Harry for number of goals scored as hardly beat a man his crossing has been poor. He’s not had a shot on goal or create an assist. Harry should have scored his movement has been ponderous at best but he’s scored two out of our 4 goals. Bellingham not been in games in an attacking sense but has scored two goals. In their club sides they look good over hyped but good. International level they do not this could be down to the manager and the way we play but they should be able to rise above that if they are world class players.
Before we play Switzerland the left side of the team needs to be sorted from left back to attack priority for me. We have missed Grealish and Rashford and Shaw. Trippier always passes back and due to that hat got Guehi booked last night who has been England best player and assisted in Jude’s goal.
Southgate is not an expansive manager but the players should be able to perform better. This squad is not as good performance wise as we were in the last Euros the manager is the same.
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Lucky Lucky Lucky, poor football for that level!
What does that mean Kato?
Far better in any quantifiable or qualifiable metrics and won in a knock out competition. All ears here.
Not that I think it really matters, but I’ve seen 2 xG comparisons that both have Slovakia as higher. Which goes along with what I saw.
I don't think anyone seriously expected Slovakia to get another goal.
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Take the win and move on (again).
Everyone can see that performances haven't been where we all wanted and expected, but we're in the quarter finals and have another opportunity to improve.
We'll be without Guehi so I hope Konsa comes in and has a good game. He's another very good option. Don't be surprised to see Bellingham suspended which may result in Gordon coming in with Foden moving to a more central position.
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Lucky Lucky Lucky, poor football for that level!
What does that mean Kato?
Far better in any quantifiable or qualifiable metrics and won in a knock out competition. All ears here.
Not that I think it really matters, but I’ve seen 2 xG comparisons that both have Slovakia as higher. Which goes along with what I saw.
I don't think anyone seriously expected Slovakia to get another goal.
So xG isn’t a “quantifiable or qualifiable metric”, but your gut feeling that Slovakia wouldn’t score again is?
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We can argue Spain are much better technically than we are, but the main difference is when their wide players, Williams and the 16 year old, get the ball, they run at the opposition and want to beat them. Their other players get in support of them, ready for the one-twos etc. Dangerous balls into the box etc and it's done at pace.
Plus, our centre half's have to bring the ball out with purpose while our midfield find space instead of hiding, making token gestures to receive the ball. Mainoo kept getting deeper and deeper and ends up doing what a centre half should be doing.
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Switzerland have a big question to ask themselves, they have done well taking teams on pressing high, we have looked poor against the low press ten men between the gaol and the ball as much as possible.
So what game do they play, do they go head to head and try and football us off the field, or do they like the teams we have played up to press disrupt play, use the tactical foul in mid field, go man for man on Bellingham and Rice, or play their high tempo game.
Granit Xhaka is a great player if not ruffled, and could be a target for to be got at with bookings or even sent off as we have seen when he played here at Arsenal, especially in big tight games.
They have won games playing well, we have won games not playing that well, a good habit to have, and we can improve a lot, while we might have seen the best of some of the other sides, its intriguing.
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We were shaky defensively before they scored.
We were so slow and ponderous going forward. How many times did Trippier receive the ball on the left, and instead of playing a quick pass on to Foden or Bellingham (passes which were often “on”), he would take a touch back inside, pause, and then the moment had gone. Therefore going back or across. He wasn’t the only one, Walker was just as bad in more advanced positions.
Why isn’t the tempo better? Why aren’t they making those quick instinctive and incisive passes? OK sometimes they might go wrong and come to nowt, but when they do it’s likely we create a good chance to score.
Is it a lack of togetherness, a lack of confidence? Or manager’s instructions.
It is so frustrating to watch the lack of ambition on the pitch.
I don’t doubt the players and manager want to win, and there’s passion out there, but going up a gear is essential.
We might get lucky and win by playing like this, but can anyone see us beating France or Spain?
Yes Kane could have score earlier, Rice was unlucky but Foden was offside by his whole body width, not just by centimetres. It was obvious in real time live play and I can’t understand why it wasn’t immediately flagged.
I’m delighted we won, but let’s be honest we are scraping through.
When we did have a go, run at players into the box, we won corners, attacking throw ins, or if we lost the ball we soon won it back. Much better that way than pass pass pass going nowhere around halfway?
At whatever stage we lose and go out, I hope it’s in a game where we give it a real go.
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The result is all that matters :headbang: you get the basics right and the results follow , i have no idea how people are defending gs he has no idea
We’re in the quarter finals for the 4th tournament in a row. Never happened before
What a manager
Shouldn’t that read ‘What! A manager?!’.
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Did some posters not notice WE WON THE DAMN GAME. I don't care how we did it, we still ground out a win. Anyone would think the team are on the plane back already. Gareth and the team have not yet let us down and how can we expect to go? Win the tournament only and anything else they are all shite?? What a bunch of fckng whingers football fans are. At least moan AFTER we go out.
You’re missing the point. We very nearly were out, if it wasn’t for an overhead kick from our man from Real Madrid in the last minute of stoppage time.
It shouldn’t be this difficult. Maybe if we were grinding out results against the best in the world, but we’re struggling to beat teams ranked much lower than we are.
It doesn’t have to be like this. The reason it is like this is because of the manager.
I'm not missing any point. Maybe it wasn't our best performance, but who was happier after the game? Slovakia who played better football and lost or England who were below par and won? Give me the win any day. Switzerland have played well to get to the next stage, but as long as we win (even if it is only from a penalty) I will be happy. People do enjoy a good moan. Southgate has still got us in the tournament when most teams have gone home. I don't see 400+ posts to get rid of McCann because he failed to get us out of league two and we sit in the basement league for yet another season. But I don't endorse getting rid of either manager.
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You’d be first in the queue to moan if McCann had us playing like England and struggling to beat teams ranked 40 places below us.
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You’d be first in the queue to moan if McCann had us playing like England and struggling to beat teams ranked 40 places below us.
What a stupid statement!!. If I was the first to moan, I would want Grant to go and I have never said that, nor about Gareth.
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Not about moaning, yes & great we have very very luckily progressed, but it's having opinions on what you have witnessed, & me personally I have watched my national team play absolutely dire football for 4 games in this competition, we have gone backwards performance wise massively under this guy since the last 2 tournaments. Nobody will convince me any different.
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We saw Southgates mentality when we took the lead in extra time, sat back and give them the initiative again instead of finishing them off, we saw the same mentality in the Euro Final and lost
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We have progressed in spite of him, not because of him.
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We saw Southgates mentality when we took the lead in extra time, sat back and give them the initiative again instead of finishing them off, we saw the same mentality in the Euro Final and lost
Yep. Southgate deserves a lot of credit for turning round the culture around the team and he generally seems to have the players wanting to play for England again (apart from Ben White apparently). But he seems very rigid in his thinking and this will cost us against better teams. Especially on these unpredictable pitches where defenders can be wrong-footed by a bobble.
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We have progressed in spite of him, not because of him.
this is about as close to the truth as is possible!!!!!
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We have progressed to the Qtr Finals in spite of Southgate not because of him.
No one is going to convince me otherwise.
He is tactically inept
Never pro active, most of the time he isn’t even re active.
We got lucky last night due to a moment of magic from Bellingham.
To not make a tactical substitution until the 83rd min was absolutely astounding.
The 1st sub after 63 mins was only because Tripper was injured.
I just don’t get it.
What is he going to do in the next match.
Will he change anything?
Not holding my breath that’s for sure.
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Spain have a plan, they have a good manager, a progressive team and it’s just a matter of time. Can’t see anyone looking forward to playing them - fortunately, we’ll not be meeting them.
Spain have been very impressive but they are not invincible.
Scotland beat them 2-0 in the qualifying group.
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The thing is he's not going to change. The bods at the FA decided the best way to win in tournament football is to focus on set pieces, keep it tight defensively, and try to create high quality chances, rather than loads of low quality ones. Southgate's profile fits that. The hesitancy to play it forward is a feature, not a bug. He'd rather create one big chance that we have an 80% chance of scoring than 5-6 lower quality chances that have a 20-30% chance of going in each.
The problem is I think teams have now worked out that it's relatively easy to get us to drop deep and put us under real pressure with a decently-organised press and Southgate hasn't adapted his approach.
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Take the win and move on (again).
Everyone can see that performances haven't been where we all wanted and expected, but we're in the quarter finals and have another opportunity to improve.
We'll be without Guehi so I hope Konsa comes in and has a good game. He's another very good option. Don't be surprised to see Bellingham suspended which may result in Gordon coming in with Foden moving to a more central position.
Apart from his goal I thought Bellingham was poor and I didn’t like his attitude in his interview. Both him and Foden are good players but playing them at the same time is killing us.
Walker was shocking in both attack and defence. If the right winger is going to cut inside on his left foot you need a full back who can actually cross on his right foot.
Our best spell in the game was when we went 2 up top and more direct with Ivan Toney on the pitch. He’s great.
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You’d be first in the queue to moan if McCann had us playing like England and struggling to beat teams ranked 40 places below us.
FIFA ranking mean naff all. Austria, Georgia, Italy tell you that
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We have progressed to the Qtr Finals in spite of Southgate not because of him.
No one is going to convince me otherwise.
He is tactically inept
Never pro active, most of the time he isn’t even re active.
We got lucky last night due to a moment of magic from Bellingham.
To not make a tactical substitution until the 83rd min was absolutely astounding.
The 1st sub after 63 mins was only because Tripper was injured.
I just don’t get it.
What is he going to do in the next match.
Will he change anything?
Not holding my breath that’s for sure.
I said if we win it people will be saying shite like this, even if we win it people will have the audacity to say it’s inspite of Southgate.
Once again he’s got us to a quarters,
Never been done before, 4 tournaments in a row!
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Take the win and move on (again).
Everyone can see that performances haven't been where we all wanted and expected, but we're in the quarter finals and have another opportunity to improv
What was it about his attitude in his interview that you didn't like? Not being funny, just interested.
We'll be without Guehi so I hope Konsa comes in and has a good game. He's another very good option. Don't be surprised to see Bellingham suspended which may result in Gordon coming in with Foden moving to a more central position.
Apart from his goal I thought Bellingham was poor and I didn’t like his attitude in his interview. Both him and Foden are good players but playing them at the same time is killing us.
Walker was shocking in both attack and defence. If the right winger is going to cut inside on his left foot you need a full back who can actually cross on his right foot.
Our best spell in the game was when we went 2 up top and more direct with Ivan Toney on the pitch. He’s great.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
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Of course he is,
We see it week in week out
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Respectfully ncRover, what was it about Jude Bellinghams attitude in his interview didn't you like?
Just interested, as I thought he was spot on.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
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The left side seems to me to be a massive issue.
Foden isn't really a wide player/winger. OK he can 'start' there and drift inside to pick up the ball, but that leaves just Trippier out there for width, which just multiplies the issue because he's got very little pace and isn't left-footed, so inevitably when he gets on the ball and Foden isn't there as an option, he has little else to offer other than a short pass inside or back. So the left side is pretty much dead in terms of creating anything.
It also doesn't help Foden that the movement in the England team is just not there like it is with Man City. England are pretty static and rigid which doesn't suit Foden's game of exchanging quick passes with other technical players who are good at finding space to do so.
The balance of the side is all wrong. I sympathise with Southgate in that he's had injuries in certain areas in that regard, but the guy spends every weekend of the season driving up and down the country to watch players, and he's had numerous warm-up games to find solutions. The fact that we're in the knockout stages of the tournament and are still looking for answers is a worry.
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Respectfully ncRover, what was it about Jude Bellinghams attitude in his interview didn't you like?
Just interested, as I thought he was spot on.
It does seem one that different people interpreted in different ways.
It’s the talk about “throwing it back at people” who have been critical of the team with no acknowledgement that they still weren’t good enough themselves, despite winning. It’s either tone deaf or a “sit down shut up” attitude.
People have every right to have an opinion and be critical after the last 4 performances. Especially those who have travelled at great expense.
Every interview coming out of the camp feels like a denial of reality.
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Ok fair do’s. Thanks for replying. As you say it’s all about opinions
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Take the win and move on (again).
Everyone can see that performances haven't been where we all wanted and expected, but we're in the quarter finals and have another opportunity to improve.
We'll be without Guehi so I hope Konsa comes in and has a good game. He's another very good option. Don't be surprised to see Bellingham suspended which may result in Gordon coming in with Foden moving to a more central position.
Apart from his goal I thought Bellingham was poor and I didn’t like his attitude in his interview. Both him and Foden are good players but playing them at the same time is killing us.
Walker was shocking in both attack and defence. If the right winger is going to cut inside on his left foot you need a full back who can actually cross on his right foot.
Our best spell in the game was when we went 2 up top and more direct with Ivan Toney on the pitch. He’s great.
Didn't much care for his attitude either in that interview and now I understand he's in a spot of bother regarding his goal celebration .
I would imagine the players are aware of the rules regarding these things pre tournament .
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We have progressed to the Qtr Finals in spite of Southgate not because of him.
No one is going to convince me otherwise.
He is tactically inept
Never pro active, most of the time he isn’t even re active.
We got lucky last night due to a moment of magic from Bellingham.
To not make a tactical substitution until the 83rd min was absolutely astounding.
The 1st sub after 63 mins was only because Tripper was injured.
I just don’t get it.
What is he going to do in the next match.
Will he change anything?
Not holding my breath that’s for sure.
Absolutely spot on.
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Someone mentioned to me today that Southgate has a better win percentage than any previous England manager.
I haven’t checked that out, perhaps someone on here will know if it is right.
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Someone mentioned to me today that Southgate has a better win percentage than any previous England manager.
I haven’t checked that out, perhaps someone on here will know if it is right.
They must have ignored Big Sam. Funnily enough that 100% record was against Slovakia.
Edit - pretty sure Capello also had a higher win percentage as well, as unlikely as it sounds.
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We have progressed to the Qtr Finals in spite of Southgate not because of him.
No one is going to convince me otherwise.
He is tactically inept
Never pro active, most of the time he isn’t even re active.
We got lucky last night due to a moment of magic from Bellingham.
To not make a tactical substitution until the 83rd min was absolutely astounding.
The 1st sub after 63 mins was only because Tripper was injured.
I just don’t get it.
What is he going to do in the next match.
Will he change anything?
Not holding my breath that’s for sure.
I said if we win it people will be saying shite like this, even if we win it people will have the audacity to say it’s inspite of Southgate.
Once again he’s got us to a quarters,
Never been done before, 4 tournaments in a row!
So, we are the PNE of the international football world.
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I have been one of his most vocal proponents, and also been banging on about how the performance doesn't matter just the result. But yesterday showed he's clueless. 2 subs in 90 mins. Toney on in 93. 4231 etched on his brain. However if cluelesness keeps getting us through then woohoo all aboard the clueless express
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I have been one of his most vocal proponents, and also been banging on about how the performance doesn't matter just the result. But yesterday showed he's clueless. 2 subs in 90 mins. Toney on in 93. 4231 etched on his brain. However if cluelesness keeps getting us through then woohoo all aboard the clueless express
I think it's more of a clueless sleeper.
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Yes Dicko what a manager. Won nothing and bored the ars*s off everyone but you.
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Someone mentioned to me today that Southgate has a better win percentage than any previous England manager.
I haven’t checked that out, perhaps someone on here will know if it is right.
They must have ignored Big Sam. Funnily enough that 100% record was against Slovakia.
Edit - pretty sure Capello also had a higher win percentage as well, as unlikely as it sounds.
Yeah, I looked it up as well.
Of the managers who have managed more than ten games Capello has the best win percentage (66.7% win percentage from 42 matches).
Southgate is second with 61.9% win percentage from 84 games.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
100% he would. He wouldn’t be stuck out on the left for a start. He’d play as a number 8 like Ruiz is playing and would touch the ball more times in 20min than he does in a game for England.
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Respectfully ncRover, what was it about Jude Bellinghams attitude in his interview didn't you like?
Just interested, as I thought he was spot on.
It does seem one that different people interpreted in different ways.
It’s the talk about “throwing it back at people” who have been critical of the team with no acknowledgement that they still weren’t good enough themselves, despite winning. It’s either tone deaf or a “sit down shut up” attitude.
People have every right to have an opinion and be critical after the last 4 performances. Especially those who have travelled at great expense.
Every interview coming out of the camp feels like a denial of reality.
This is true. Of course some criticism if your looking online is going to be way over the top. But of the criticism in the “normal” discourse it’s all justified. To act as if it’s somehow unfathomable is just living in a different reality.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
100% he would. He wouldn’t be stuck out on the left for a start. He’d play as a number 8 like Ruiz is playing and would touch the ball more times in 20min than he does in a game for England.
He wouldn’t get in the Spain or Portugal sides he is overrated at international level
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The left side seems to me to be a massive issue.
Foden isn't really a wide player/winger. OK he can 'start' there and drift inside to pick up the ball, but that leaves just Trippier out there for width, which just multiplies the issue because he's got very little pace and isn't left-footed, so inevitably when he gets on the ball and Foden isn't there as an option, he has little else to offer other than a short pass inside or back. So the left side is pretty much dead in terms of creating anything.
It also doesn't help Foden that the movement in the England team is just not there like it is with Man City. England are pretty static and rigid which doesn't suit Foden's game of exchanging quick passes with other technical players who are good at finding space to do so.
The balance of the side is all wrong. I sympathise with Southgate in that he's had injuries in certain areas in that regard, but the guy spends every weekend of the season driving up and down the country to watch players, and he's had numerous warm-up games to find solutions. The fact that we're in the knockout stages of the tournament and are still looking for answers is a worry.
We don’t keep the ball long enough to let him drift inside.
Imo if the left back is going to be right footed the winger on that side needs to stay wide and offer the balance to the team. Saka should play there and stay high and wide.
Then Foden either plays off the right where it’s more natural for a him to come inside or Palmer plays there and Foden goes infield alongside Bellingham. Will never happen but I’d love us to try it.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
100% he would. He wouldn’t be stuck out on the left for a start. He’d play as a number 8 like Ruiz is playing and would touch the ball more times in 20min than he does in a game for England.
He wouldn’t get in the Spain or Portugal sides he is overrated at international level
If you’re rated by City then you are good enough at any level. He’s better than Bruno Fernandes and Ruiz.
City could sign almost anyone in any position if they wanted to. The reason anyone who starts regularly for them does is because they are world class.
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Williams for Spain is by far a better player than Foden.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
100% he would. He wouldn’t be stuck out on the left for a start. He’d play as a number 8 like Ruiz is playing and would touch the ball more times in 20min than he does in a game for England.
He wouldn’t get in the Spain or Portugal sides he is overrated at international level
Complete rubbish.
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
100% he would. He wouldn’t be stuck out on the left for a start. He’d play as a number 8 like Ruiz is playing and would touch the ball more times in 20min than he does in a game for England.
He wouldn’t get in the Spain or Portugal sides he is overrated at international level
If you’re rated by City then you are good enough at any level. He’s better than Bruno Fernandes and Ruiz.
City could sign almost anyone in any position if they wanted to. The reason anyone who starts regularly for them does is because they are world class.
Not at international level is what I said not City
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Here's a thought.
Watching Williams and Yamal improvise for Spain last night and take on defenders at will, maybe Foden isn't as big an individual talent as we tell ourselves.
Put Foden in the Spain team and would he look better?
100% he would. He wouldn’t be stuck out on the left for a start. He’d play as a number 8 like Ruiz is playing and would touch the ball more times in 20min than he does in a game for England.
He wouldn’t. He doesn’t even play as an 8 for City.
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This Man City team are the best football team in the world. One of the best of all time. He was just about their best player last season. He’s obviously a serious player.
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He’d play centrally for them that’s for sure. Not as a winger
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This Man City team are the best football team in the world. One of the best of all time. He was just about their best player last season. He’s obviously a serious player.
Did they get to the Champions league semi final I didn’t think so.
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This Man City team are the best football team in the world. One of the best of all time. He was just about their best player last season. He’s obviously a serious player.
Did they get to the Champions league semi final I didn’t think so.
What’s that got to do with anything?
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This Man City team are the best football team in the world. One of the best of all time. He was just about their best player last season. He’s obviously a serious player.
Did they get to the Champions league semi final I didn’t think so.
What’s that got to do with anything?
Gaz he’s ok in the overrated premier league as of yet he not done it at international level. He’s not been playing as winger even in this competition he’s been inside and like the others lacked quality. He has three games to show what he’s about hopefully let’s not forget all he had to do last night was stay behind the ball and he would have scored a goal.
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Yes Dicko what a manager. Won nothing and bored the ars*s off everyone but you.
If you’re bored beating the Germans in a knock out game or thumping Ukraine 4-0 in a quarter final,
If you’re bored being the amongst the top scorers in each of the last tournaments then you need to take up another hobby
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Honestly some of the opinions on here regarding Foden are astounding.
We just love to put our own players down it must be a trait that the English have.
Happened for years
Anyone who doesn’t think Foden is a world class player is off his rocker
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Foden is a brilliant player but he’s not a left winger. You lose nearly all of his attributes playing him there. He needs to play as a 10 or wide right.
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Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media
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Honestly some of the opinions on here regarding Foden are astounding.
We just love to put our own players down it must be a trait that the English have.
Happened for years
Anyone who doesn’t think Foden is a world class player is off his rocker
The point being made dickos is he hasn’t showed world class form on the international stage as yet.
Oh didn’t know we had beaten Germany and beaten Ukraine 4-0 in this tournament.
Everyone is talking about the last 4 games not previous tournaments dickos. We have been undeniably shocking in all 4 games in this one irrelevant of the final score in each game.
You can’t possibly deny that.
I think Southgate is great with the players and is a good man manager and has the respect of the players.
I think most of us would agree with that.
What most of us are saying is he plays people out of position, is tactically naive, is not pro active in a match situation, is far too cautious and is inflexible.
If you think he is the best manager we have ever had because we have reached 4 consecutive Qtr finals well that’s your prerogative. The fact is we haven’t done it with any conviction in this tournament and we seem to be going backwards regarding the football we are playing which is crazy with such a talented set of players.
If we go on to win it then we can’t really criticise GS but unless something changes in the next 3 games if we get 3 of course then we haven’t got much hope of bringing the European Championship trophy home.
We will not beat Germany, Spain or France playing as we have. Not a chance. We probably won’t beat Switzerland and if we did then one of Netherlands, Romania, Austria or Turkey either.
Our luck will inevitably run out sooner rather than later.
Starting team v Switzerland for me needs to be.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Trippier/Shaw ( if fit )
Rice
Mainoo
Palmer
Bellingham
Gordon
Kane
Subs at H/T if we are not winning
From 2/3 from
Gomez
TAA
Foden
Saka
Eiza
Toney
Watkins
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Honestly some of the opinions on here regarding Foden are astounding.
We just love to put our own players down it must be a trait that the English have.
Happened for years
Anyone who doesn’t think Foden is a world class player is off his rocker
The point being made dickos is he hasn’t showed world class form on the international stage as yet.
Oh didn’t know we had beaten Germany and beaten Ukraine 4-0 in this tournament.
Everyone is talking about the last 4 games not previous tournaments dickos. We have been undeniably shocking in all 4 games in this one irrelevant of the final score in each game.
You can’t possibly deny that.
I think Southgate is great with the players and is a good man manager and has the respect of the players.
I think most of us would agree with that.
What most of us are saying is he plays people out of position, is tactically naive, is not pro active in a match situation, is far too cautious and is inflexible.
If you think he is the best manager we have ever had because we have reached 4 consecutive Qtr finals well that’s your prerogative. The fact is we haven’t done it with any conviction in this tournament and we seem to be going backwards regarding the football we are playing which is crazy with such a talented set of players.
If we go on to win it then we can’t really criticise GS but unless something changes in the next 3 games if we get 3 of course then we haven’t got much hope of bringing the European Championship trophy home.
We will not beat Germany, Spain or France playing as we have. Not a chance. We probably won’t beat Switzerland and if we did then one of Netherlands, Romania, Austria or Turkey either.
Our luck will inevitably run out sooner rather than later.
Starting team v Switzerland for me needs to be.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Trippier/Shaw ( if fit )
Rice
Mainoo
Palmer
Bellingham
Gordon
Kane
Subs at H/T if we are not winning
From 2/3 from
Gomez
TAA
Foden
Saka
Eiza
Toney
Watkins
I think you need to read the conversation before posting.
Your man said we hadn’t won anything so obviously wasn’t talking about a tournament that’s only at the last 16 stage.
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Honestly some of the opinions on here regarding Foden are astounding.
We just love to put our own players down it must be a trait that the English have.
Happened for years
Anyone who doesn’t think Foden is a world class player is off his rocker
The point being made dickos is he hasn’t showed world class form on the international stage as yet.
Oh didn’t know we had beaten Germany and beaten Ukraine 4-0 in this tournament.
Everyone is talking about the last 4 games not previous tournaments dickos. We have been undeniably shocking in all 4 games in this one irrelevant of the final score in each game.
You can’t possibly deny that.
I think Southgate is great with the players and is a good man manager and has the respect of the players.
I think most of us would agree with that.
What most of us are saying is he plays people out of position, is tactically naive, is not pro active in a match situation, is far too cautious and is inflexible.
If you think he is the best manager we have ever had because we have reached 4 consecutive Qtr finals well that’s your prerogative. The fact is we haven’t done it with any conviction in this tournament and we seem to be going backwards regarding the football we are playing which is crazy with such a talented set of players.
If we go on to win it then we can’t really criticise GS but unless something changes in the next 3 games if we get 3 of course then we haven’t got much hope of bringing the European Championship trophy home.
We will not beat Germany, Spain or France playing as we have. Not a chance. We probably won’t beat Switzerland and if we did then one of Netherlands, Romania, Austria or Turkey either.
Our luck will inevitably run out sooner rather than later.
Starting team v Switzerland for me needs to be.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Konsa
Trippier/Shaw ( if fit )
Rice
Mainoo
Palmer
Bellingham
Gordon
Kane
Subs at H/T if we are not winning
From 2/3 from
Gomez
TAA
Foden
Saka
Eiza
Toney
Watkins
I think you need to read the conversation before posting.
Your man said we hadn’t won anything so obviously wasn’t talking about a tournament that’s only at the last 16 stage.
What about the rest of what I posted.
I am wasting my breath because Southgate can’t do anything wrong in your eyes.
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I think a lot of what you’ve posted is hindsight, 90% of folk were happy with the lineup against Serbia,
Yep I’d make changes for the next game, but not many.
Every team we’ve played have sat back and we’ve struggled, I don’t think the Swiss will so I think it’ll suit us.
We drew with Denmark who were very unlucky to lose to Germany, robbed in fact, we drew with Slovenia who have just drawn with Portugal, and we beat Slovakia who beat Belgium.
So in reality our results aren’t as bad as what’s being made out
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I think a lot of what you’ve posted is hindsight, 90% of folk were happy with the lineup against Serbia,
Yep I’d make changes for the next game, but not many.
Every team we’ve played have sat back and we’ve struggled, I don’t think the Swiss will so I think it’ll suit us.
We drew with Denmark who were very unlucky to lose to Germany, robbed in fact, we drew with Slovenia who have just drawn with Portugal, and we beat Slovakia who beat Belgium.
So in reality our results aren’t as bad as what’s being made out
Kind of agree. People wanted TAA out, he played CG, we were worse. People wanted CG out, we played KM, we were worse again.
Players are always better when they are not playing when their team is struggling. If Anthony Gordon is the answer you are struggling to understand the question.
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I think a lot of what you’ve posted is hindsight, 90% of folk were happy with the lineup against Serbia,
Yep I’d make changes for the next game, but not many.
Every team we’ve played have sat back and we’ve struggled, I don’t think the Swiss will so I think it’ll suit us.
We drew with Denmark who were very unlucky to lose to Germany, robbed in fact, we drew with Slovenia who have just drawn with Portugal, and we beat Slovakia who beat Belgium.
So in reality our results aren’t as bad as what’s being made out
Stop with the common sense :-)
We should be slaughtering TLOS ('The Likes of Slovakia)
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I think a lot of what you’ve posted is hindsight, 90% of folk were happy with the lineup against Serbia,
Yep I’d make changes for the next game, but not many.
Every team we’ve played have sat back and we’ve struggled, I don’t think the Swiss will so I think it’ll suit us.
We drew with Denmark who were very unlucky to lose to Germany, robbed in fact, we drew with Slovenia who have just drawn with Portugal, and we beat Slovakia who beat Belgium.
So in reality our results aren’t as bad as what’s being made out
Kind of agree. People wanted TAA out, he played CG, we were worse. People wanted CG out, we played KM, we were worse again.
Players are always better when they are not playing when their team is struggling. If Anthony Gordon is the answer you are struggling to understand the question.
Don’t agree with that, Mainoo was much better than the other two
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I think a lot of what you’ve posted is hindsight, 90% of folk were happy with the lineup against Serbia,
Yep I’d make changes for the next game, but not many.
Every team we’ve played have sat back and we’ve struggled, I don’t think the Swiss will so I think it’ll suit us.
We drew with Denmark who were very unlucky to lose to Germany, robbed in fact, we drew with Slovenia who have just drawn with Portugal, and we beat Slovakia who beat Belgium.
So in reality our results aren’t as bad as what’s being made out
Kind of agree. People wanted TAA out, he played CG, we were worse. People wanted CG out, we played KM, we were worse again.
Players are always better when they are not playing when their team is struggling. If Anthony Gordon is the answer you are struggling to understand the question.
Mainoo was really bright.
The question is “why isn’t anyone running in behind and stretching the opposition?”
The sensible answer to that is Anthony Gordon based on the options he’s got.
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If we look at the players selected in forward areas which of those players for their clubs run in behind.
Saka Palmer Foden Bellingham Eze Toney Kane non of these all want ball to feet. So the ones that maybe could are Watkins Gordon and Bowen.
Our wide players like coming inside and play with overlapping fullbacks even at club level. Unfortunately we haven’t got that on the left which was a big strength last Euros with Luke Shaw and Kyle Walker is not doing it like he was in the last euros. Therefore we haven’t put enough good crosses in the box. We have tried playing through packed defences and we have failed miserably. But we are not the only top team to do that in this Euros.
Last night Portugal who played far better than we did couldn’t score against Slovenia over reliant on trying to find Ronaldo as well. But Slovenia defence stood tall.
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Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.
A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?
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Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.
A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?
Not sure anyone has suggested we’re playing well!
But it’s tournament football, the successful teams are usually pragmatic and grind out results.
That’s what we’re doing.
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Southgate is losing a lot of fans that have previously backed him and been pleased with what he’s achieved. Against Slovakia he was one minute away from being mutually consented and the inevitable horrific media and public backlash. All that still awaits him if he fails to win the trophy. I fear for him as that seems more likely than us winning the cup.
Having ‘a feeling’ we will get through isn’t good enough though. We can’t expect a miracle goal in injury time every game.
I still believe though. This team can ‘go electric’ like Rovers did a few months ago. Or maybe we’ll do a Greece and we’ll be holding the trophy aloft and we’re all still thinking we didn’t play very well at any point.
I hope he’s successful this time. He’s done a lot right for England. He’s moved us so far forward we’re never going back to a Sam Allardyce type.
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Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.
A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?
Not sure anyone has suggested we’re playing well!
But it’s tournament football, the successful teams are usually pragmatic and grind out results.
That’s what we’re doing.
Like Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina pragmatism’s?
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I have been thinking about the times when other top football countries are having a dodgy spell but get through with a late goal and people say that good teams always find away to win.
It is fair to say that England are a good team but some of our fans can’t bring themselves to say the same thing about us.
If we do go on the win the tournament I’m sure there will be people who say we have not did it because we had the easy side of the draw rather than celebrate the win.
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Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media
My wife pointed the exact same thing out.
I’ve never understood the power of the media to determine the nations narrative so completely….but it certainly seems to do so
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I've felt very little enthusiasm about England in the run up to this tournament. Usually you get the sense the country is ramping up, but there's just no vibe this time.
And personally I don't feel excited to watch us play. Our games haven't felt like big occasions. I felt relief when we scored, not really excitement. I'm genuinely more excited about watching Rovers first match in August than England in the Quarter Finals on Saturday.
Maybe if we sneak through to the Semis I'll somehow get the buzz back, but for now I feel like I'm going through the motions.
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As a slight aside, I must put in a word about Declan Rice.
In a team which has been underwhelming in its performances I think he has been an exception. He has put in a huge amount of effort all over the pitch and was our best player by a mile in the win over Slovakia.
If every England player had matched Rice's performances I think we would have a very different mood on this board.
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I've felt very little enthusiasm about England in the run up to this tournament. Usually you get the sense the country is ramping up, but there's just no vibe this time.
And personally I don't feel excited to watch us play. Our games haven't felt like big occasions. I felt relief when we scored, not really excitement. I'm genuinely more excited about watching Rovers first match in August than England in the Quarter Finals on Saturday.
Maybe if we sneak through to the Semis I'll somehow get the buzz back, but for now I feel like I'm going through the motions.
Completely agree about the buzz. I’ve loved the Euros and World Cup my whole life and England playing in them has always been a big event. This Euros have been great but this time watching England has just felt like a chore. I really really hope that changes on Saturday and it’s not our last match.
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As a slight aside, I must put in a word about Declan Rice.
In a team which has been underwhelming in its performances I think he has been an exception. He has put in a huge amount of effort all over the pitch and was our best player by a mile in the win over Slovakia.
If every England player had matched Rice's performances I think we would have a very different mood on this board.
I agree and I think he and Mainoo are going to be the engine-room for England for many years behind Bellingham.
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Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.
A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?
Not sure anyone has suggested we’re playing well!
But it’s tournament football, the successful teams are usually pragmatic and grind out results.
That’s what we’re doing.
Like Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina pragmatism’s?
When did Germany, Spain or Brazil win anything last?
Italy won the last euros by being pragmatic, Portugal the one before being even more pragmatic
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Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.
A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?
Not sure anyone has suggested we’re playing well!
But it’s tournament football, the successful teams are usually pragmatic and grind out results.
That’s what we’re doing.
Like Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina pragmatism’s?
When did Germany, Spain or Brazil win anything last?
Italy won the last euros by being pragmatic, Portugal the one before being even more pragmatic
Germany & Spain are the most successful teams (jointly) in winning the Euros. Spain will win this one.
Brazil have won more World Cups than any other country. They are the only country in the world to have qualified for every competition.
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Football has changed significantly.
Teams like Albania, Slovakia, Austria, are no longer the whipping boys.
France have probably the most pragmatic manager there is and look at the success he’s achieved.
If we win this euros playing how we are at the minute nobody will care
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I've felt very little enthusiasm about England in the run up to this tournament. Usually you get the sense the country is ramping up, but there's just no vibe this time.
And personally I don't feel excited to watch us play. Our games haven't felt like big occasions. I felt relief when we scored, not really excitement. I'm genuinely more excited about watching Rovers first match in August than England in the Quarter Finals on Saturday.
Maybe if we sneak through to the Semis I'll somehow get the buzz back, but for now I feel like I'm going through the motions.
Completely agree about the buzz. I’ve loved the Euros and World Cup my whole life and England playing in them has always been a big event. This Euros have been great but this time watching England has just felt like a chore. I really really hope that changes on Saturday and it’s not our last match.
I can understand the lack of enthusiasm at the way we are playing and there is not a buzz about the team, but I don't think that means the players are crap or that Southgate should go. Will England win against Spain, France and Germany, probably not but right now we are still in the mix with the best of them.
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There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.
Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.
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Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media
My wife pointed the exact same thing out.
I’ve never understood the power of the media to determine the nations narrative so completely….but it certainly seems to do so
The British media is the worst in the world, they build things and people up and then take immense delight in destroying them. Hopefully in my lifetime every national newspaper will go bust
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Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media
My wife pointed the exact same thing out.
I’ve never understood the power of the media to determine the nations narrative so completely….but it certainly seems to do so
The British media is the worst in the world, they build things and people up and then take immense delight in destroying them. Hopefully in my lifetime every national newspaper will go bust
…..and that attitude carries on into social media, as clearly portrayed on this forum.
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Hope Southgate watched the holland game today. Thats what you do when you go a goal ahead, carry on attacking & get a second and third. Not resort to a flat back 10.
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On the media/fan scrutiny I’ve seen a lot of foreign players who’ve been in England for years say it’s just the same if not worse in their home country.
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There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.
Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.
Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up
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On the media/fan scrutiny I’ve seen a lot of foreign players who’ve been in England for years say it’s just the same if not worse in their home country.
Yes, it could well be.
Possibly because we have emotional involvement when England play but not when watching two countries with who we have no feelings for, is the reason why we enjoy watching some of the other matches.
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No, hound, we enjoy watching teams playing front foot, attacking football. Not the dreary negative crap we’ve had to suffer, so far, from England. Hopefully, we turn the page v Switzerland, but I, somehow, very much doubt it.
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Let’s hope we have a good day then.
It is still excruciating though even when playing well if it is a close game.
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My point about Foden is one I've been making regularly for years about English stars.
Yes they are quite superb in club football.
But here's the thing. International football isn't club football.
In club football, players are coached intensively as to what their role is in a well-drilled machine.
That is far, far less the case in international football, especially in tournaments. Players have to adapt, improvise, deal with novel situations that they don't have drilled into them until it is second nature. They have to deal with formations and colleagues who are not what they are used to.
My contention is that it takes a different form of football intelligence to excel in tournament football than it does in club football.
Of course, many players can excel at both. But there has to be some reason why, regularly, English players who are superlative in English club football, never quite reach those peaks in international tournaments. Foden is a perfect example.
It can't all be about managers, because we've tried every type there is.
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If we’re talking about Foden specifically, he has only played (at senior level) under Southgate.
He was player of the tournament when the under 17s won the World Cup under Steve Cooper. And he’s premier league player of the season under Guardiola. So the weak link does appear to be Southgate here not Foden.
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My point about Foden is one I've been making regularly for years about English stars.
Yes they are quite superb in club football.
But here's the thing. International football isn't club football.
In club football, players are coached intensively as to what their role is in a well-drilled machine.
That is far, far less the case in international football, especially in tournaments. Players have to adapt, improvise, deal with novel situations that they don't have drilled into them until it is second nature. They have to deal with formations and colleagues who are not what they are used to.
My contention is that it takes a different form of football intelligence to excel in tournament football than it does in club football.
Of course, many players can excel at both. But there has to be some reason why, regularly, English players who are superlative in English club football, never quite reach those peaks in international tournaments. Foden is a perfect example.
It can't all be about managers, because we've tried every type there is.
All very true but the Manager has a massive influence. Alf Ramsey managed to get the best out of his squad and did not select his best players, instead he built a team.
For me this Southgate side seem to be lacking in the total commitment that we see from a Rovers team under Grant McCann.
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One of the main strengths of Southgate is that he’s bridged the gap with players. Lots of players have played better for the country than their club which is why he’s got so much previous criticism about players being picked when not in good form, because he knew they’d done well for him.
Maguire, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, rashford, these are all players that were struggling for their clubs but he stuck with them and they were excellent for their country.
This tournament he’s moved away from that slightly and picked all the players in good club form, and at the moment it’s not clicking
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One of the main strengths of Southgate is that he’s bridged the gap with players. Lots of players have played better for the country than their club which is why he’s got so much previous criticism about players being picked when not in good form, because he knew they’d done well for him.
Maguire, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, rashford, these are all players that were struggling for their clubs but he stuck with them and they were excellent for their country.
This tournament he’s moved away from that slightly and picked all the players in good club form, and at the moment it’s not clicking
This is a fair point. Granted his hand has slightly been forced by injuries in some cases, but when he made the statement about missing Kalvin Phillips my first thought was "well why not pick him then?"
The answer is obviously that he's hardly managed to get a game all season and people would go spare. But does that matter if he does the business for England and improves the performance of the team?
Same goes for Sterling or Rashford. If they were in the squad then does it get easier to drop Foden and add in a player who is more comfortable in that left sided role? Or does picking players bang out of form for their clubs come with more risks? Football, eh?
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I think Lineker, Shearer etc have been spot on in their comments, we have been shite all tournament, same as most of us have seen before our very eyes. Most people I've spoken to agree. Results good, performances absolute garbage. Don't really care how other countries have struggled or whatever, just giving opinions on England.
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I think Lineker, Shearer etc have been spot on in their comments, we have been shite all tournament, same as most of us have seen before our very eyes. Most people I've spoken to agree. Results good, performances absolute garbage. Don't really care how other countries have struggled or whatever, just giving opinions on England.
I think shearer and Lineker have been embarrassing. Imagine coming out and slagging off people who have done much better than you ever did yourselves in that very same position.
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There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.
Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.
Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up
What utter rubbish. Lineker and Shearer were both prolific scorers for England, with practically 1 in 2 ratios.
Lineker even won the Golden Boots award with the most goals at the 1986 World Cup.
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I think Lineker, Shearer etc have been spot on in their comments, we have been shite all tournament, same as most of us have seen before our very eyes. Most people I've spoken to agree. Results good, performances absolute garbage. Don't really care how other countries have struggled or whatever, just giving opinions on England.
I think shearer and Lineker have been embarrassing. Imagine coming out and slagging off people who have done much better than you ever did yourselves in that very same position.
Don't think they, or anyone else should be 'embarrassed' for offering their honest opinions on England's performances, no matter what they've done in the past.
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I think at this stage people should support the team.
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There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.
Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.
Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up
What utter rubbish. Lineker and Shearer were both prolific scorers for England, with practically 1 in 2 ratios.
Lineker even won the Golden Boots award with the most goals at the 1986 World Cup.
What on earth does that have to do with anything?
They were both part of disastrous England teams yet they sit there slagging this one off.
One that’s performed much better than the ones they played for
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Shearer has been the best england striker i have seen cannot believe anyody slagging him off
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There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.
Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.
Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up
What utter rubbish. Lineker and Shearer were both prolific scorers for England, with practically 1 in 2 ratios.
Lineker even won the Golden Boots award with the most goals at the 1986 World Cup.
Neither have done as well as Kane in an England shirt!
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Shearer has been the best england striker i have seen cannot believe anyody slagging him off
Slagging off his shit punditry and the poor England teams he failed with.
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If i played a 4-4-2 i would pick shearer and owen, kane would not get a look in
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If i played a 4-4-2 i would pick shearer and owen, kane would not get a look in
Well done good for you.
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Kane is 30 years old has been a great striker but now needs replacing next world cup he will be 32 and to old we need a replacement, if we cannot play to his strengths he needs replacing now, give watkins or tony a chance
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One of the main strengths of Southgate is that he’s bridged the gap with players. Lots of players have played better for the country than their club which is why he’s got so much previous criticism about players being picked when not in good form, because he knew they’d done well for him.
Maguire, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, rashford, these are all players that were struggling for their clubs but he stuck with them and they were excellent for their country.
This tournament he’s moved away from that slightly and picked all the players in good club form, and at the moment it’s not clicking
This is utter garbage, picking players who are not match fit, not playing week in week out and thinking they are match fit, maguire was targeted in the last world cup by the french and giroud beat him for the winner, we have no left back who is match fit, just imagine luke shaw, not match fit coming against one of the best right wingers in europe, not a chance, no left midfield, you need a core group to keepyour shape, but as nobody has any idea what the shape is what is the point.
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Baffles me the stick that Kane gets. How many goals does the guy have to score to get the recognition he deserves? Our all time top scorer speaks for itself and that puts him above them all. He shows up every single tournament and even when he doesn’t play well and looks lethargic he scores. We are lucky to have him and it’s worrying to look at what’s behind him because as much as I rate Toney and Watkins they are not and never will be anywhere near the level Kane is.
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We are luckyto have had him but when is he past his best is the question
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Well he has scored 36 in 32 appearances for Bayern this season and scored 2 in 4 so far in the euros so not yet is the answer to that one.
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Kane is 30 years old has been a great striker but now needs replacing next world cup he will be 32 and to old we need a replacement, if we cannot play to his strengths he needs replacing now, give watkins or tony a chance
Utter nonsense!
Look at how many goals he’s scored this season, look how many goals he’s scored in recent major tournaments.
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Does anyone watch the bundesliga, where does kane play does he play on the shoulder of the last defender or does he drop deep to the half way line?
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He comes deep and gets the ball, as he did for Tottenham for years
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Kane is 30 years old has been a great striker but now needs replacing next world cup he will be 32 and to old we need a replacement, if we cannot play to his strengths he needs replacing now, give watkins or tony a chance
Utter nonsense!
Look at how many goals he’s scored this season, look how many goals he’s scored in recent major tournaments.
in the first match of the competition Serbia we had a corner on the right and we got a close up of Harry and I saw him struggling for breath - as if he was knackered as he awaited the corner - i don't know which half it was.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnNviYwk8Oc Just checked think not he plays right on the front line, high on the shoulder of the last man,utter gareth defensive garbage playing him that deep
And by the way take a bow harry fantastic finishing
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnNviYwk8Oc Just checked think not he plays right on the front line, high on the shoulder of the last man,utter gareth defensive garbage playing him that deep
And by the way take a bow harry fantastic finishing
If you don’t realise Kane has been playing deep for years and playing in the likes of son week after week then you’ve no idea what is is you’re watching.
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Have you not watched the video, can you not see how high he is playing :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
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Kane's passing range is superb. I have absolutely no issue with him dropping deeper at times providing the wide players enter the space he vacates.
There's talk of us switching to a back 3/5 against Switzerland which may leave us shorter in the central midfield areas. If so, Kane dropping deeper will be even more important.
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Have you not watched the video, can you not see how high he is playing :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Come on, get a grip!
He’s a striker so yes of course he spends most of the time the furthest player up the pitch.
But the simple fact is, Kane throughout his whole career has come deep to get the ball and played people through. The issue isn’t him coming deep the issue is we don’t have runners going in behind when he comes deep.
Kane’s game this tournament is no different to its ever been, I can’t understand anyone suggesting it is
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure I remember watching Lineker play in a World Cup semi final to lose only on penalties, having been top scorer the previous tournament in a team that was cheated out of it. Shearer got to the semi final of the euros, again losing on pens. To the Germans both times. I, and many of us on here, watched both semis. Sure, some of the preceding games were crap, but not all - like the 4-1 vs Holland and the 3-0 vs Poland when we really needed a result.
Yes GS got us to a final, and has been around longer but the previous ones weren’t as bad respectively as you’re making out..
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This era has got us to at least the quarters in every tournament since Southgate took over.
Euro 96 we played well in one half of football against Holland the rest of it was pretty poor, italia 90 we were poor all the way through, best performance was in the semi which we lost.
Our record from 1990 to 2016 was pretty atrocious!
92 failed to get of group
94 did not qualify
96 semis
98 last 16
2000 failed to get out of group
2002 quarter finals
2004 quarter finals
2006 quarter finals
2008 did not qualify
2010 last 16
2012 quarter finals
2014 failed to get out of group
2016 last 16
Compare that to Southgate’s reign
2018 semi final
2020 final
2022 quarter final
2024 ?
So yes the record under the golden generation and even the one before with Lineker was terrible, it’s just a fact that the current national team is performing in tournaments much better than it has before on a consistent basis
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This era has got us to at least the quarters in every tournament since Southgate took over.
Euro 96 we played well in one half of football against Holland the rest of it was pretty poor, italia 90 we were poor all the way through, best performance was in the semi which we lost.
Our record from 1990 to 2016 was pretty atrocious!
92 failed to get of group
94 did not qualify
96 semis
98 last 16
2000 failed to get out of group
2002 quarter finals
2004 quarter finals
2006 quarter finals
2008 did not qualify
2010 last 16
2012 quarter finals
2014 failed to get out of group
2016 last 16
Compare that to Southgate’s reign
2018 semi final
2020 final
2022 quarter final
2024 ?
So yes the record under the golden generation and even the one before with Lineker was terrible, it’s just a fact that the current national team is performing in tournaments much better than it has before on a consistent basis
Whilst I sympathise with your position doing a wholesale comparison like that is near impossible.
Not only was the format different for a lot of those campaigns so was qualifying, and so was the number of teams in each competition. Not only that but its only in recent years that the Euro's have become a summer competition with qualifying during the playing season and the finals in the summer, it didn't use to be like that and most of the competition part took place during the playing season.
I remember the days when WC qualifying groups consisted of just 3 teams, and any failure at that time meant no qualification at all. Its got so much easier these days with umpteen chances to qualify!
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In addition to that Southgate has generally got very lucky with the opposition England have faced. This tournament possibly the easiest group and then easiest side of the draw.
Last World Cup we only had to beat Iran and Wales (couldn’t beat USA) and then beat Senegal.
World Cup in Russia we beat Panama and Tunisia (with a last minute goal) Columbia (on penalties) and Sweden.
Euros final maybe the exception as we had to get past Germany but otherwise it was Croatia, Czechs (couldn’t beat Scotland), Ukraine and Denmark.
In general, with the exception of Germany in the Euros, we’ve fallen short everytime we’ve faced a decent team - and even sometimes when we’ve come up against an average team.
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This era has got us to at least the quarters in every tournament since Southgate took over.
Euro 96 we played well in one half of football against Holland the rest of it was pretty poor, italia 90 we were poor all the way through, best performance was in the semi which we lost.
Our record from 1990 to 2016 was pretty atrocious!
92 failed to get of group
94 did not qualify
96 semis
98 last 16
2000 failed to get out of group
2002 quarter finals
2004 quarter finals
2006 quarter finals
2008 did not qualify
2010 last 16
2012 quarter finals
2014 failed to get out of group
2016 last 16
Compare that to Southgate’s reign
2018 semi final
2020 final
2022 quarter final
2024 ?
So yes the record under the golden generation and even the one before with Lineker was terrible, it’s just a fact that the current national team is performing in tournaments much better than it has before on a consistent basis
Keep going dickos old mate, it’s a good job some of these weren’t around in the early forties.
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It will all be put to the test on Saturday. Switzerland look a bloody good side.
If we can beat them, I'll start to believe. However, we'll need to play better than we have done up to now; and we all know that we can.
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This era has got us to at least the quarters in every tournament since Southgate took over.
Euro 96 we played well in one half of football against Holland the rest of it was pretty poor, italia 90 we were poor all the way through, best performance was in the semi which we lost.
Our record from 1990 to 2016 was pretty atrocious!
92 failed to get of group
94 did not qualify
96 semis
98 last 16
2000 failed to get out of group
2002 quarter finals
2004 quarter finals
2006 quarter finals
2008 did not qualify
2010 last 16
2012 quarter finals
2014 failed to get out of group
2016 last 16
Compare that to Southgate’s reign
2018 semi final
2020 final
2022 quarter final
2024 ?
So yes the record under the golden generation and even the one before with Lineker was terrible, it’s just a fact that the current national team is performing in tournaments much better than it has before on a consistent basis
Whilst I sympathise with your position doing a wholesale comparison like that is near impossible.
Not only was the format different for a lot of those campaigns so was qualifying, and so was the number of teams in each competition. Not only that but its only in recent years that the Euro's have become a summer competition with qualifying during the playing season and the finals in the summer, it didn't use to be like that and most of the competition part took place during the playing season.
I remember the days when WC qualifying groups consisted of just 3 teams, and any failure at that time meant no qualification at all. Its got so much easier these days with umpteen chances to qualify!
The Euros have been run in more or less this format (Qualifying groups over 18 months, then a group and knockout finals tournament in the summer) since 1980. Hardly "recent".
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In addition to that Southgate has generally got very lucky with the opposition England have faced. This tournament possibly the easiest group and then easiest side of the draw.
Last World Cup we only had to beat Iran and Wales (couldn’t beat USA) and then beat Senegal.
World Cup in Russia we beat Panama and Tunisia (with a last minute goal) Columbia (on penalties) and Sweden.
Euros final maybe the exception as we had to get past Germany but otherwise it was Croatia, Czechs (couldn’t beat Scotland), Ukraine and Denmark.
In general, with the exception of Germany in the Euros, we’ve fallen short everytime we’ve faced a decent team - and even sometimes when we’ve come up against an average team.
That’s not correct either
We got knocked out by Iceland not long ago, italia 90 we faced Belgium and Cameroon both very poor international sides at the time.
The arguement we only do well because we’re playing rubbish teams is just an easy arguement for the people who can’t accept it when we do well under Southgate
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This era has got us to at least the quarters in every tournament since Southgate took over.
Euro 96 we played well in one half of football against Holland the rest of it was pretty poor, italia 90 we were poor all the way through, best performance was in the semi which we lost.
Our record from 1990 to 2016 was pretty atrocious!
92 failed to get of group
94 did not qualify
96 semis
98 last 16
2000 failed to get out of group
2002 quarter finals
2004 quarter finals
2006 quarter finals
2008 did not qualify
2010 last 16
2012 quarter finals
2014 failed to get out of group
2016 last 16
Compare that to Southgate’s reign
2018 semi final
2020 final
2022 quarter final
2024 ?
So yes the record under the golden generation and even the one before with Lineker was terrible, it’s just a fact that the current national team is performing in tournaments much better than it has before on a consistent basis
Whilst I sympathise with your position doing a wholesale comparison like that is near impossible.
Not only was the format different for a lot of those campaigns so was qualifying, and so was the number of teams in each competition. Not only that but its only in recent years that the Euro's have become a summer competition with qualifying during the playing season and the finals in the summer, it didn't use to be like that and most of the competition part took place during the playing season.
I remember the days when WC qualifying groups consisted of just 3 teams, and any failure at that time meant no qualification at all. Its got so much easier these days with umpteen chances to qualify!
I think for all those tournaments I mentioned they were played in the summer with qualification during the season.
Yes the completion was different it used to be in the euros that you were straight into the quarters which means some of those performances are even worse as they’ve lost in the first knock out game
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned (I don’t think it has anyway) is the quality of some other nations has improved so much.
I remember years ago that we used to beat teams by seven or eight goals but those countries now have exceptional coaching and are so well organised that massive wins are very rare.
Even teams like San Marino don’t get hammered every time they play.
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Rumours abound that he’s going to go 3-5-2
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned (I don’t think it has anyway) is the quality of some other nations has improved so much.
I remember years ago that we used to beat teams by seven or eight goals but those countries now have exceptional coaching and are so well organised that massive wins are very rare.
Even teams like San Marino don’t get hammered every time they play.
I definitely agree that the quality of what you'd previously call middling/also ran teams has come on leaps and bounds (teams like Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Hungary etc) but I don't really think they've ever been whipping boys and although they often just make up the numbers at the World Cups/Euros it's rare that they'd ever get beaten heavily.
San Marino, though, are definitely still no stranger to a hammering - in the last 5 years Italy have past 7 past them, Belgium & Russia 9 each, we scored 10 (less than 3 years ago!) and even Scotland have put 6 past them.
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Rumours abound that he’s going to go 3-5-2
Not sure how I feel about that. In a sense it's exciting that Southgate is looking at ways to improve us but is this just another desperate roll of the dice? Feels like the 3rd midfield slot has just been guesswork so far, so is this just the next step from that?
Is Shaw fit to play LWB or is Saka going to be moving there? Is Toney going to get a game or will Bellingham effectively be the 2nd striker? Will this get more out of Foden? Will Palmer potentially get a start? Will we get more out of TAA at RWB?
Still, better questions to be thinking about than "will Gallagher be back in for this one?"
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned (I don’t think it has anyway) is the quality of some other nations has improved so much.
I remember years ago that we used to beat teams by seven or eight goals but those countries now have exceptional coaching and are so well organised that massive wins are very rare.
Even teams like San Marino don’t get hammered every time they play.
I definitely agree that the quality of what you'd previously call middling/also ran teams has come on leaps and bounds (teams like Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Hungary etc) but I don't really think they've ever been whipping boys and although they often just make up the numbers at the World Cups/Euros it's rare that they'd ever get beaten heavily.
San Marino, though, are definitely still no stranger to a hammering - in the last 5 years Italy have past 7 past them, Belgium & Russia 9 each, we scored 10 (less than 3 years ago!) and even Scotland have put 6 past them.
In the last two years, with the exception of a 6-0 loss to Finland, San Marino’s biggest defeat has been 4-0 and they only lost 2-1 in a match against Denmark.
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned (I don’t think it has anyway) is the quality of some other nations has improved so much.
I remember years ago that we used to beat teams by seven or eight goals but those countries now have exceptional coaching and are so well organised that massive wins are very rare.
Even teams like San Marino don’t get hammered every time they play.
I definitely agree that the quality of what you'd previously call middling/also ran teams has come on leaps and bounds (teams like Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Hungary etc) but I don't really think they've ever been whipping boys and although they often just make up the numbers at the World Cups/Euros it's rare that they'd ever get beaten heavily.
San Marino, though, are definitely still no stranger to a hammering - in the last 5 years Italy have past 7 past them, Belgium & Russia 9 each, we scored 10 (less than 3 years ago!) and even Scotland have put 6 past them.
In the last two years San Marino’s biggest defeat has been 4-0 and they only lost 2-1 in a match against Denmark.
They lost 6-0 to Finland just over a year ago, but the point I was making was that when they come across the sort of quality they would do in a group game at the Euros they still get hammered.
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Something that hasn’t been mentioned (I don’t think it has anyway) is the quality of some other nations has improved so much.
I remember years ago that we used to beat teams by seven or eight goals but those countries now have exceptional coaching and are so well organised that massive wins are very rare.
Even teams like San Marino don’t get hammered every time they play.
I definitely agree that the quality of what you'd previously call middling/also ran teams has come on leaps and bounds (teams like Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Hungary etc) but I don't really think they've ever been whipping boys and although they often just make up the numbers at the World Cups/Euros it's rare that they'd ever get beaten heavily.
San Marino, though, are definitely still no stranger to a hammering - in the last 5 years Italy have past 7 past them, Belgium & Russia 9 each, we scored 10 (less than 3 years ago!) and even Scotland have put 6 past them.
In the last two years San Marino’s biggest defeat has been 4-0 and they only lost 2-1 in a match against Denmark.
They lost 6-0 to Finland just over a year ago, but the point I was making was that when they come across the sort of quality they would do in a group game at the Euros they still get hammered.
Yes, I saw that 6-0 result after I posted and came on to edit my list, which I now have done.
It is unlikely though that they will ever play in a group game in the euros but they still play in the qualifying groups and the point I was making is that they don’t often get battered by big scores whereas in years gone by they regularly did.
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Rumours abound that he’s going to go 3-5-2
I’d be happy with that IF he picks the right players.
I cringe when i hear Connor Gallaghers name being mentioned.
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In addition to that Southgate has generally got very lucky with the opposition England have faced. This tournament possibly the easiest group and then easiest side of the draw.
Last World Cup we only had to beat Iran and Wales (couldn’t beat USA) and then beat Senegal.
World Cup in Russia we beat Panama and Tunisia (with a last minute goal) Columbia (on penalties) and Sweden.
Euros final maybe the exception as we had to get past Germany but otherwise it was Croatia, Czechs (couldn’t beat Scotland), Ukraine and Denmark.
In general, with the exception of Germany in the Euros, we’ve fallen short everytime we’ve faced a decent team - and even sometimes when we’ve come up against an average team.
That’s not correct either
We got knocked out by Iceland not long ago, italia 90 we faced Belgium and Cameroon both very poor international sides at the time.
The arguement we only do well because we’re playing rubbish teams is just an easy arguement for the people who can’t accept it when we do well under Southgate
Cameroon did beat argentina at italia 90
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Saudi Arabia beat them in the last World Cup too
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Rumours abound that he’s going to go 3-5-2
I’d be happy with that IF he picks the right players.
I cringe when i hear Connor Gallaghers name being mentioned.
Rumoured line up below. I don’t get why we leak squad and or formation changes.
Pickford
Konsa Stones Walker
Saka LWB
Trent RWB
Rice/Mainoo CDM
Foden/Jude used as 10’s
Kane main man
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It's bizzare, each and every time the squads have come out as per the "rumour" surely this shouldn't be happening.
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The media will be the ones leaking it. Any other country and they’d be keeping it quiet and helping the national team. Our media are always looking for us to fail so they can have their story
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No, the media are looking to sell newspapers, airtime etc. It's sensationalism and lots of people look at it.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cd19x2d9pxno What other nations fans think of england this tournament
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Ha ha
Portugese & french should concentrate on their own teams failures I reckon
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I don't mind 3-5-2 if that's what we actually play & not just an excuse to sit back with a back 5. Christ, when Eze came on against Slovakia he basically played left back, I'd love to see a heat map for him that night
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cd19x2d9pxno What other nations fans think of england this tournament
So Europeans are saying it too, although we knew it anyway.
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Knew what ha ha ha
The French are the most defensive, pragmatic team in the world so they’ve not really got a leg to stand on when criticising us
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Not ste about Pickford with his constant back passing.
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Thing with 3 at the back is it becomes 5 very quickly if your not brave and don’t allow the centre halves to step out and engage.
The way Southgate is it’ll likely mean we sit deep in a back 5 instead of a back 4. Not much difference.
The team I saw still had Kane on his own up top just with Foden and Bellingham playing closer to him. So we’ve still no pace in behind. I don’t know who should be dropped but having Watkins and Kane play together would give us options imo.
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I think we will win and likely win the tournament. Their outlet to progress the ball from the back is Rodriguez. Stop him playing out down that left channel and we will nullify a lot of what they do. I’d consider playing two up top and put Toney on him or alternatively Jude has to play high and step onto him when out of possession. Come on England.
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This era has got us to at least the quarters in every tournament since Southgate took over.
Euro 96 we played well in one half of football against Holland the rest of it was pretty poor, italia 90 we were poor all the way through, best performance was in the semi which we lost.
Our record from 1990 to 2016 was pretty atrocious!
92 failed to get of group
94 did not qualify
96 semis
98 last 16
2000 failed to get out of group
2002 quarter finals
2004 quarter finals
2006 quarter finals
2008 did not qualify
2010 last 16
2012 quarter finals
2014 failed to get out of group
2016 last 16
Compare that to Southgate’s reign
2018 semi final
2020 final
2022 quarter final
2024 ?
So yes the record under the golden generation and even the one before with Lineker was terrible, it’s just a fact that the current national team is performing in tournaments much better than it has before on a consistent basis
Whilst I sympathise with your position doing a wholesale comparison like that is near impossible.
Not only was the format different for a lot of those campaigns so was qualifying, and so was the number of teams in each competition. Not only that but its only in recent years that the Euro's have become a summer competition with qualifying during the playing season and the finals in the summer, it didn't use to be like that and most of the competition part took place during the playing season.
I remember the days when WC qualifying groups consisted of just 3 teams, and any failure at that time meant no qualification at all. Its got so much easier these days with umpteen chances to qualify!
Also the location is critical. The 2020 tournament was basically a home tournament. The most impressive result arguably since 1966 was the 2018 semi final (which we could have won) being played in Russia. Our away record isn't much cop if we are honest so that 2018 performance stands out.
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The squad in 2018 was really poor too so it’s a miracle they got that far
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Knew what ha ha ha
The French are the most defensive, pragmatic team in the world so they’ve not really got a leg to stand on when criticising us
That we've played shite in 4 games.
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France haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
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Such a great game between France and Portugal …….. that i fell asleep and missed most of the second half.
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France haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
Don't really care about which other country in the tournament has or hasn't done. We have played garbage in 4 games. Concensus of opinion by the looks of it tend to agree.
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Bloody penalty shoot-out. I hate them.
I've a feeling it could be France out.
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I was wrong. Portugal out.
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Who was the best player on the pitch, mpappe, ronaldo no pepe give his soul tonight for portugal , i wish england players had his passion
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France haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
Make that 720 mins.....
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France haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
Don't really care about which other country in the tournament has or hasn't done. We have played garbage in 4 games. Concensus of opinion by the looks of it tend to agree.
But you care what other countries think about us?
Seems an odd take.
Fact of the matter is France don’t really care how they perform as long as they win, maybe it’s the mentality a lot of you lot should jump on board with.
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France didn’t score but they played with more tempo and quick forward movement than England have so far. So did Portugal.
I’m looking for a step up this afternoon in performance.
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France haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
Don't care about any other country in the tournament has or hasn't done. We have played garbage in 4 games. Concensus of opinion from here & abroad by the looks of itFrance haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
As I say I'm commenting on our national team, not France, not Germany, or anyone else. My opinions are on England
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France haven’t scored a goal from open play in 600 minutes, so as I say they should maybe be worrying about how shite they’ve been
Don't really care about which other country in the tournament has or hasn't done. We have played garbage in 4 games. Concensus of opinion by the looks of it tend to agree.
But you care what other countries think about us?
Seems an odd take.
Fact of the matter is France don’t really care how they perform as long as they win, maybe it’s the mentality a lot of you lot should jump on board with.
No I don't care whatsover what other countries think about us, just saying that they are seeing what we are seeing, no more no less.
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Lot of nominally very good sides have been playing dreadful football. The best sides to watch haven't been the larger or more favoured sides.
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Why do our media insist on reporting our game plan 3 days before we the game. All it does is give an advantage to the opponent it’s p!as poor. Is that seriously the only story they can come up with?
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Glad he's changing it. The change gives me more confidence. I don't agree with Trippier as RWB but sums Southgate up. Trent should be played there and that's coming from a very anti Liverpool person. Walker and Trippier have been awful this tournament.
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Glad he's changing it. The change gives me more confidence. I don't agree with Trippier as RWB but sums Southgate up. Trent should be played there and that's coming from a very anti Liverpool person. Walker and Trippier have been awful this tournament.
IMO, Walker has done well.
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Mostly, I agree, but not in the last game..
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Glad he's changing it. The change gives me more confidence. I don't agree with Trippier as RWB but sums Southgate up. Trent should be played there and that's coming from a very anti Liverpool person. Walker and Trippier have been awful this tournament.
You anti-Liverpool, Padge?
Never in a million years.
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COME ON EGLAND
Let’s have a performance today and a WIN of course.
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Looks a better formation suiting foden and bellingham
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Our corner, back to the gk in 8 seconds flat ffs
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Short corner and back to the keeper within 10 seconds. You can't blame Southgate for that. The player's are responsible.
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Why play trippier on the left of midfield when there's better specialist players for that position?
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Walker again, too many touches when one would do, and the moment has passed.
First 20 mins or so, tempo better than before, then reverting to type again.
No attacking outlet on the left again, unless Bellingham has a go there. Saka and Mainoo looking a threat, and defensively we are ok.
They need to do something about this hesitancy issue. Take a chance FFS.
It’s not far off being a good performance but let’s have some spark second half.??
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Much better tempo, forward passes, pressing, & balls in the box.
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Hope trippier is replaced at half time.nothing happening on that side of the pitch.
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Complete waste of time playing Trippier as a left wing back.
Why not move Saka to the left and play TAA on the right.
Or you could play Gordon on the left as our wing backs are not having to do much defending & leave Saka on the right.
We just need more balance to the team. We are so right sided it’s crazy.
Having said that it’s better & we are pressing them high up the pitch.
There is so much more to come from this team. We just need to see it.
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A minute or so ago we had 5 players in the final third, all to the right of their penalty area..
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Time to change things up a bit.?
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63 mins and still no subs
Unbelievable.
I just don’t get Southgate at all.
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He will be waiting for us to go 1-0 down then he might change someone.
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If he doesn’t make some changes we will lose this.
We are going nowhere at the moment.
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If he doesn’t make some changes we will lose this.
We are going nowhere at the moment.
Starmer's got the right idea we need "CHANGE"
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Impossible to understand Southgate’s tactics nothing from rt hand side .
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What’s he waiting for.
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It had to come now he will have to make changes :facepalm:
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One down and still no changes.??
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Go a goal down
Seriously dickos he is an idiot. Waits till we are losing.
Please don’t tell me he is tactically astute please. He is an idiot.
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This isn’t good enough. Lose today and it’s time up for Southgate IMHO. Doesn’t matter what he’s achieved in previous tournaments, his selections this time have been questionable to say the least..
They can’t even sort the subs properly..
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Thank f**k..
Best player on the pitch restores some hope..
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Unreal.we have a shot and we score
Not rocket science is it.
He is the luckiest manager on the planet. That goal was not down to his subs was it or lack of them.
This is so painful being an England supporter. It really should not be like this.
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Take Kane off and put someone up front with a bit of pace.
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Take Kane off and put someone up front with a bit of pace.
Agreed.. can’t just keep him on for penalties. Toney, as much as I disliked him at Peterborough, will bring a goal threat and takes a decent penalty too..
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Take Kane off and put someone up front with a bit of pace.
Agreed.. can’t just keep him on for penalties. Toney, as much as I disliked him at Peterborough, will bring a goal threat and takes a decent penalty too..
you forgot about him throwing himself on the floor when he played for Barnsley
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Take Kane off and put someone up front with a bit of pace.
Agreed.. can’t just keep him on for penalties. Toney, as much as I disliked him at Peterborough, will bring a goal threat and takes a decent penalty too..
you forgot about him throwing himself on the floor when he played for Barnsley
I always liked Ivan Toney :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Penalties?
Doddle!
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Great penalties.. cannot fault 5 out of 5.
Somehow England have reached the semi final. Surely that will inspire more confidence in the team.?
Delighted with the result..
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Something about this team... it's ... quality when needed, last two games. We've never seen this before, we would have folded before.
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Best penalties I have ever seen
Southgate IS THE LUCKIEST MANAGER ON THE PLANET.
When are we going to start to playing well. Maybe if we do we will lose.
I can’t take ant more of this. It’s AGONY :that:
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I hope the nation now get behind them and don't pick apart every f**king pass.
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Something about this team... it's ... quality when needed, last two games. We've never seen this before, we would have folded before.
Yes but let’s be honest Lady Luck is on our side.
Switzerland were a goal post/ cross bar from winning it.
Maybe this is going to be our year at last. Just wish GS would be more pro active in making changes when they are needed.
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Some absolutely cold blooded penalties there.
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Something about this team... it's ... quality when needed, last two games. We've never seen this before, we would have folded before.
Yes but let’s be honest Lady Luck is on our side.
Switzerland were a goal post/ cross/cross bar from winning it.
No. Its not luck. Bellingham's over head kick is not luck. 5 perfect penalities is not luck. It's quality above our opponents.
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3rd semifinal in last 4 competitions we are not playing brilliant ( neither are France) 5 Brilliant penalties we move on
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I hope the nation now get behind them and don't pick apart every f**king pass.
We are behind them 100%
But let’s be honest we are not doing this the easy way are we. Yes i know we never do but this year, well I am lost for words.
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Saka man of the match for me, both attacking and defensively.
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Luck ? You get lucky once or twice not a hole tournament. We played better today imo but still not at our best yet. Each game we are looking better. We are by gar the best team without the ball and don't concede many. Trouble is we don't score many and that's the problem. Fans want to see goals. Southgate has shown faith tweaked here and there and he has got us to another semi. Just got to get more goals and we could win thus.
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Put it this way, if I fancy a bit of “sexy time” I could take myself upstairs for ten minutes with a decent wifi connection and a box of Kleenex. Alternatively I could pop a blue pill and enjoy a couple of hours with two special friends.
Either way, the final result is the same for me. Nice to have some enjoyment getting there though.!!
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Something about this team... it's ... quality when needed, last two games. We've never seen this before, we would have folded before.
Yes but let’s be honest Lady Luck is on our side.
Switzerland were a goal post/ cross/cross bar from winning it.
No. Its not luck. Bellingham's over head kick is not luck. 5 perfect penalities is not luck. It's quality above our opponents.
You know what I mean.
The fact is we only had 2 shots on target in 125 mins.
Yes we won and that the object of the exercise but wow let’s be honest we were not great in that 2nd half.
We looked very flat and we needed subs on at 60 mins at 0-0 not on 78 mins when we are 1-0 down.
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3rd semifinal in last 4 competitions we are not playing brilliant ( neither are France) 5 Brilliant penalties we move on
Would be great if we could beat France in the final. I think we owe them one after the World Cup defeat.
Got to beat Holland or Turkey first. Fancy Holland to win tonight.
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Interesting interviews from the players saying how well we played. Not sure the majority on here agreee but wonder if thats a statement from them that they liked the tactical switch.
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In all honesty, I thought their goal was lucky, it's gone through Konsa's legs and Stones is a nats cock away from getting a decent touch on it. The defense up until that point were virtually faultless. Our defense is so impressive, Konsa replaced Geuhi to the same standard.
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Just about the easiest penalty shoot out experience I've ever had with club or country .
I figured when it went to penalties we'd probably get through based on playing like pre programmed robots it would come in mightily handy .
There's no much emotion in this team which may well have been our undoing over the years .
It's a hard watch , pretty difficult , about as exciting as going bird watching with Keir Starmer .
Thing is the fact it's so unEngland like is why we might win the bloody thing .
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Vastly improved performance. I thought we were better than them overall.
No team except Spain has shown much so far, so it's still anybody's to win.
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Vastly improved performance. I thought we were better than them overall.
No team except Spain has shown much so far, so it's still anybody's to win.
Agree SS but Pickford had more work to do than Sommer. We were very flat most of that 2nd 45 mins imo.
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It's not luck but somehow doing the bare minimum of attacking play, but also being very wasteful when getting into decent positions. Saka scored with the one decent contact he had all game, although he was more positive, his deliveries were woeful. Bellingham did bugger all again.
At best, you could say we were disciplined but it's the same formula of refusing to do the obvious with subs until we're forced to.
We were marginally better than previous games but there's so much more we could do better.
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Put it this way, if I fancy a bit of “sexy time” I could take myself upstairs for ten minutes with a decent wifi connection and a box of Kleenex. Alternatively I could pop a blue pill and enjoy a couple of hours with two special friends.
Either way, the final result is the same for me. Nice to have some enjoyment getting there though.!!
Onanism doesn't cut it for me. I'll take the two special friends please
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In all honesty, I thought their goal was lucky, it's gone through Konsa's legs and Stones is a nats cock away from getting a decent touch on it. The defense up until that point were virtually faultless. Our defense is so impressive, Konsa replaced Geuhi to the same standard.
couldn't agree more. It's the most comfortable we have been imo bar the goal. Let's hope we are growing into the tournament as we have a good side on paper and I'd hate to look back in years to come seeing the likes of Foden,kane,J Bellingham winning titles and champ league medals but nothing at national level. These players should be winning tournaments at national level. When we kick fully we could take some stopping. We also have very good options to bring In. How palmer isn't starting is criminal. Who do you leave out. Ate we better bringing him on with 20 to 25 mind and maybe extra time?
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Saka man of the match for me, both attacking and defensively.
Just seen these stats on twitter, honourable mention for Rice...
Rice vs Switzerland
107 touches
98.9% pass accuracy
92/93 passes completed
34 passes into the final third
5/7 duels won
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Just about the easiest penalty shoot out experience I've ever had with club or country .
I figured when it went to penalties we'd probably get through based on playing like pre programmed robots it would come in mightily handy .
There's no much emotion in this team which may well have been our undoing over the years .
It's a hard watch , pretty difficult , about as exciting as going bird watching with Keir Starmer .
Thing is the fact it's so unEngland like is why we might win the bloody thing .
It's absolutely how the rubgy lot did it in 2003. Accept we're the best if we grind it out and ignore all criticism that tries to get us to divert from those tactics.
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It's not luck but somehow doing the bare minimum of attacking play, but also being very wasteful when getting into decent positions. Saka scored with the one decent contact he had all game, although he was more positive, his deliveries were woeful. Bellingham did bugger all again.
At best, you could say we were disciplined but it's the same formula of refusing to do the obvious with subs until we're forced to.
We were marginally better than previous games but there's so much more we could do better.
Knockout football plays a massive part mentally to players. We know how good we are without the ball so we think we only have to score one the don't take silly risks. Next thing we ate defending deeper and are happy to defend. We are improving though so that's the main thing. Let's see who we get and keep believing.
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Much much better performance, still baffling that Trippier played on the left though, but shaw got some valuable minutes in him and provided us with better balance, even though he played in a back three, watching Holland v Turkey, at the moment Foden and Bellingham will get a lot more space to do their thing than they did today against a well organised Swiss team
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
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In all honesty, I thought their goal was lucky, it's gone through Konsa's legs and Stones is a nats cock away from getting a decent touch on it. The defense up until that point were virtually faultless. Our defense is so impressive, Konsa replaced Geuhi to the same standard.
Agree mostly, but you could also argue Stones was equally as close to scoring an OG.
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Netherlands vs Turkey very open. I can’t see Turkey playing any other way. Hope they win.!
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A good performance tonight and we certainly deserved the victory.
Our best game of the tournament so far and it would have been very unfair if we’d lost that.
Don’t forget that Switzerland are no mugs and have had some excellent results so far. Their goal was fortunate - Stones’ toe played it right into the path of their player and he couldn’t miss.
I love Saka. Every time he gets that ball and starts to cut inside, I feel there’s a goal coming. He is England’s version of Molly.
And the guts he showed to step up and score his penalty - echoes of Stuart Pierce.
So Saka is my MOTM but Declan Rice is a very close second.
Rice is my player of the tournament for England so far.
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Really impressed with Saka. I was gutted for him in the last final, and the abuse he got afterwards was disgraceful and disgusting. He’s a great player and a fantastic lad.
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I’m very chuffed for Dickos and Silent Majority
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A good performance tonight and we certainly deserved the victory.
Our best game of the tournament so far and it would have been very unfair if we’d lost that.
Don’t forget that Switzerland are no mugs and have had some excellent results so far. Their goal was fortunate - Stones’ toe played it right into the path of their player and he couldn’t miss.
I love Saka. Every time he gets that ball and starts to cut inside, I feel there’s a goal coming. He is England’s version of Molly.
And the guts he showed to step up and score his penalty - echoes of Stuart Pierce.
So Saka is my MOTM but Declan Rice is a very close second.
Rice is my player of the tournament for England so far.
Completely agree, Rice has very quietely been outstanding.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
If all you're interested in is WINNING why do you bother watching football - the greatest sport (IMO) on the planet.
Why not find out who the champion pub dominoes player is in your area and go and watch/support them in your free time instead???
Oh and I'd be delighted if England win the Euro's regardless - that goes without saying. But sorry they're not great to watch.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
I thought watching a football match was supposed to be entertaining.
Do you go to the cinema, theatre, concert, etc to bored.
Well football is also supposed to be part of the entertainment industry isn’t it? Well at least that’s what I always believed.
Thanks for enlightening me.
Next match I watch that’s boring I will now know that’s what it’s supposed to be.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
I thought watching a football match was supposed to be entertaining.
Do you go to the cinema, theatre, concert, etc to bored.
Well football is also supposed to be part of the entertainment industry isn’t it? Well at least that’s what I always believed.
Thanks for enlightening me.
Next match I watch that’s boring I will now know that’s what it’s supposed to be.
Sorry but you're talking utter nonsense trying to equate any of those things above, and also watching rovers, with international football tournaments. Yes I hate to break it to you international football tournaments are about winning the tournament.
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Saka is world class.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
I thought watching a football match was supposed to be entertaining.
Do you go to the cinema, theatre, concert, etc to bored.
Well football is also supposed to be part of the entertainment industry isn’t it? Well at least that’s what I always believed.
Thanks for enlightening me.
Next match I watch that’s boring I will now know that’s what it’s supposed to be.
Sorry but you're talking utter nonsense trying to equate any of those things above, and also watching rovers, with international football tournaments. Yes I hate to break it to you international football tournaments are about winning the tournament.
So football league games are supposed to be entertaining but international matches are not. They are only about winning.
Well blow me down, you know I always thought EFL teams were trying to win league games so they could get promoted.
You’re the one talking utter nonsense it seems.
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The Swiss were very well organised, no,argument there.
However as good a set of players as they are they were also under orders to stop us playing and regularly had all their players behind the ball.
At international level that is very hard to break down.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
You’re missing the point. It isn’t so much about being entertaining, it’s more about playing with a decent tempo, taking risks, being more dynamic in the final third, and being more convincing against the lower ranked sides. That’s important as it gives more of a belief that England could do well against the best teams.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
You’re missing the point. It isn’t so much about being entertaining, it’s more about playing with a decent tempo, taking risks, being more dynamic in the final third, and being more convincing against the lower ranked sides. That’s important as it gives more of a belief that England could do well against the best teams.
In all honesty I kind of get where you're coming from. Bellingham, Foden, Kane are world class and have looked average at best so far. I'd love them to be playing the way we know they can. But at the same time for the 7 games it takes to win the euros I just don't care.
The Turkey fans right now aren't happy they played good football. They're sad they lost
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Netherlands it is in the Semi Final
Hopefully we will win & it will be an entertaining game.
Both would be a bonus.
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Not great to watch are they? And that's an understatement.
Given the quality of the players that's only forgivable if they win the tournament. Which they're still on track to do.
First serious shot on target (the goal) took 80 minutes arriving. Last game 95 minutes.
Southgate set the team up differently to match up against the Swiss formation to keep them/the game quiet. It worked. But my it was dull!
Why does it matter? Why do you feel like you have to be entertained every game? Why does it matter to the pundits (all of whom failed miserably at international level), why does it matter to the media (who've never kicked a ball and who leak our team)....WHY??? Who cares about entertaining football it's about WINNING. What is this mad obsession England fans have it's comical
You’re missing the point. It isn’t so much about being entertaining, it’s more about playing with a decent tempo, taking risks, being more dynamic in the final third, and being more convincing against the lower ranked sides. That’s important as it gives more of a belief that England could do well against the best teams.
In all honesty I kind of get where you're coming from. Bellingham, Foden, Kane are world class and have looked average at best so far. I'd love them to be playing the way we know they can. But at the same time for the 7 games it takes to win the euros I just don't care.
The Turkey fans right now aren't happy they played good football. They're sad they lost
I’m sure the Turks are gutted but full of pride.
It’s always disappointing to lose, but that’s tempered if you know you’ve given your best efforts in doing so.
We are capable of winning the semi if we are on top of our game - player for player we are as good as, or better than them.
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Netherlands it is in the Semi Final
Hopefully we will win & it will be an entertaining game.
Both would be a bonus.
Camps, mate.
Which is more important to you:
Play really well, be entertaining but lose the game, or Not play really well, but do enough to win.
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It would be nice if one or two on here admitted that Southgate knows a little bit more about what will win us this tournament than they do. Also if they gave him a bit more respect given what he has achieved.
The performance tonight wasn’t overly flashy but I was gripped throughout the game because so much was at stake. And most important of all the performance was effective.
We are in the semi final…again!!! Come on let’s stop the pile-ons and get behind them. I find the prevailing attitude bewildering
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I think folks are concerned about the lack of efforts on target against so called lesser sides..
Credit for reaching the semis, it’s a significant achievement to be celebrated.
But have we seen performances to say we can win the trophy.? That could all change on Wednesday of course - we have very capable players.
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I’ll credit Southgate as he does get us through tournaments better than anyone we have.
However I will never understand how we seem to concede any initiative to score a goal. We go behind and get straight back into it. Then sit back again and pretty much play for pens.
I get the grinding games out and been pragmatic to the point of boredom but to almost settle for pens just isn’t a tactical plan I can get on board with.
He’ll be a legend if we keep getting through and win it. Here’s hoping. Feels like we’ll need to keep practicing pens to win anything.
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Not been impressed with England so far. So slow reminds me of the Dave Jones days at Hillsboro!
Mind you - semi finals it is. Anyone nation at this stage can win it.
It's not been edge of the seat stuff but it's proven so far that's performance doesn't naturally equal result.
That said - Granty in charge for remainder of tournament.
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I could not raise sufficient interest to watch tonight's game. Went out for an exquisite meal instead in great company, called in on a live rock gig on the way back. Overall a wonderful night of entertainment.
Thanks Gareth. You have killed my interest with your negative crab football. Sideways sideways, back to the keeper, pedestrian football.
I watch to be entertained. I'm there for the thrills, the excitement, a racing pulse, heart in the mouth moments. A spawny win is no longer enough to captivate my interest. Goalless draws against teams who are making up the numbers don't do it for me. The thrill is gone. Dull is dull however you dress it up.
To those who think GS walks on water, enjoy it. Ditto those who want victory at any cost.
I've reached a time in my life when class matters. 90 minutes watching the mundane is 90 minutes I can no longer spare. Life is short.
Good luck to England but those loyal supporters deserve better. I've been lucky to watch some great sides from the Brazilians of the 1970s onwards, the Dutch, Germans, Italians, French, Belgium, etc.
In comparison we are not worthy.
It's not being disloyal. It is genuinely how I feel. You go ahead. Fill your boots. If this football enthuses or inspires you, so be it. But don't expect everyone to agree with you. The real world isn't like that.
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I’ll credit Southgate as he does get us through tournaments better than anyone we have.
However I will never understand how we seem to concede any initiative to score a goal. We go behind and get straight back into it. Then sit back again and pretty much play for pens.
I get the grinding games out and been pragmatic to the point of boredom but to almost settle for pens just isn’t a tactical plan I can get on board with.
He’ll be a legend if we keep getting through and win it. Here’s hoping. Feels like we’ll need to keep practicing pens to win anything.
That's because he fails to recognise when to take advantage of the good footholds we get in games.
Everyone could see Trippier was a waste of a player on the left. So capitalise by making a positive change with someone who can exploit the left flank, and keep the positive momentum.
That's the difference. Fails to capitalise v Italy, fails to capitalise v France. We don't have to go gung ho but keep up the pressure. We let teams off the hook time and time again. We got away with it this time. Please Gareth, it's your last chance. Learn from your repeated mistakes .
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Glad you enjoyed your meal donnybob
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I think the stress of watching the team we support often makes it appear they are performing worse than they are when, in reality, it is just a case of them not being as dominant as we want them to be.
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I think the stress of watching the team we support often makes it appear they are performing worse than they are when, in reality, it is just a case of them not being as dominant as we want them to be.
Yep, I think you’re right there BB
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I could not raise sufficient interest to watch tonight's game. Went out for an exquisite meal instead in great company, called in on a live rock gig on the way back. Overall a wonderful night of entertainment.
Thanks Gareth. You have killed my interest with your negative crab football. Sideways sideways, back to the keeper, pedestrian football.
I watch to be entertained. I'm there for the thrills, the excitement, a racing pulse, heart in the mouth moments. A spawny win is no longer enough to captivate my interest. Goalless draws against teams who are making up the numbers don't do it for me. The thrill is gone. Dull is dull however you dress it up.
To those who think GS walks on water, enjoy it. Ditto those who want victory at any cost.
I've reached a time in my life when class matters. 90 minutes watching the mundane is 90 minutes I can no longer spare. Life is short.
Good luck to England but those loyal supporters deserve better. I've been lucky to watch some great sides from the Brazilians of the 1970s onwards, the Dutch, Germans, Italians, French, Belgium, etc.
In comparison we are not worthy.
It's not being disloyal. It is genuinely how I feel. You go ahead. Fill your boots. If this football enthuses or inspires you, so be it. But don't expect everyone to agree with you. The real world isn't like that.
How much is the Man City season ticket?
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I could not raise sufficient interest to watch tonight's game. Went out for an exquisite meal instead in great company, called in on a live rock gig on the way back. Overall a wonderful night of entertainment.
Thanks Gareth. You have killed my interest with your negative crab football. Sideways sideways, back to the keeper, pedestrian football.
I watch to be entertained. I'm there for the thrills, the excitement, a racing pulse, heart in the mouth moments. A spawny win is no longer enough to captivate my interest. Goalless draws against teams who are making up the numbers don't do it for me. The thrill is gone. Dull is dull however you dress it up.
To those who think GS walks on water, enjoy it. Ditto those who want victory at any cost.
I've reached a time in my life when class matters. 90 minutes watching the mundane is 90 minutes I can no longer spare. Life is short.
Good luck to England but those loyal supporters deserve better. I've been lucky to watch some great sides from the Brazilians of the 1970s onwards, the Dutch, Germans, Italians, French, Belgium, etc.
In comparison we are not worthy.
It's not being disloyal. It is genuinely how I feel. You go ahead. Fill your boots. If this football enthuses or inspires you, so be it. But don't expect everyone to agree with you. The real world isn't like that.
I don’t think anyone thinks GS walks on water or is enthused by the football. But if you missed that equaliser or shootout win today then I feel sorry for you. Penalty defeats are excruciating but the victories are euphoric.
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Southgate has been a very very good international manager. During his tenure we have a tournament record that ought to be the envy of almost every other nation. Yet so many of our fans, almost all of whom have been starved of success for nearly all of their adult lives, just want to criticise and moan. For what it’s worth I do get that it’s not been great to watch, and I think after this tournament it’s time to freshen things up, but Southgate has done such a great job of guiding us through tournaments and to see him described as useless and clueless is beyond laughable. Who do we think we are? Every country wants to win and we are one of very few that keep on putting ourselves in the position to do so, despite only ever having won a major tournament once. He’s doing something right, it’s not just luck. It just feels a bit safe and over cautious, but it’s been effective. It’s like the Labour Party isn’t it.
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I agree all of that except the last line .The opposition at Euros is not as bad as that facing Labour .
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
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I could not raise sufficient interest to watch tonight's game. Went out for an exquisite meal instead in great company, called in on a live rock gig on the way back. Overall a wonderful night of entertainment.
Thanks Gareth. You have killed my interest with your negative crab football. Sideways sideways, back to the keeper, pedestrian football.
I watch to be entertained. I'm there for the thrills, the excitement, a racing pulse, heart in the mouth moments. A spawny win is no longer enough to captivate my interest. Goalless draws against teams who are making up the numbers don't do it for me. The thrill is gone. Dull is dull however you dress it up.
To those who think GS walks on water, enjoy it. Ditto those who want victory at any cost.
I've reached a time in my life when class matters. 90 minutes watching the mundane is 90 minutes I can no longer spare. Life is short.
Good luck to England but those loyal supporters deserve better. I've been lucky to watch some great sides from the Brazilians of the 1970s onwards, the Dutch, Germans, Italians, French, Belgium, etc.
In comparison we are not worthy.
It's not being disloyal. It is genuinely how I feel. You go ahead. Fill your boots. If this football enthuses or inspires you, so be it. But don't expect everyone to agree with you. The real world isn't like that.
Of course. Each to their own. Glad you had a good night.
I don't expect everyone to agree - if entertainment is more important to you than winning that's your prerogative. I think you are in a minority there. But neither do I expect people to be disrespectful or downright abusive to Southgate. He is a brilliant leader who has managed to create an unbelievable team spirit - no cliques, good values etc. He is employed to get us through tournaments and has been very successful at that. I hope he finishes the job this time not least because he bloody deserves it.
If he does he won't be disrespectful to the people who have been disrespectful to him. He has more class than that.
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Southgate has been a very very good international manager. During his tenure we have a tournament record that ought to be the envy of almost every other nation. Yet so many of our fans, almost all of whom have been starved of success for nearly all of their adult lives, just want to criticise and moan. For what it’s worth I do get that it’s not been great to watch, and I think after this tournament it’s time to freshen things up, but Southgate has done such a great job of guiding us through tournaments and to see him described as useless and clueless is beyond laughable. Who do we think we are? Every country wants to win and we are one of very few that keep on putting ourselves in the position to do so, despite only ever having won a major tournament once. He’s doing something right, it’s not just luck. It just feels a bit safe and over cautious, but it’s been effective. It’s like the Labour Party isn’t it.
Couldn't agree more
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The way Switzerland set up was never going to make this a classic. Fair play it nearly worked for them. I think if you have a go at our defence you'll get joy.
Pickford again. Best GK since Seaman for me. Our bizarre brainless fans decided to call him a w**ker all game and tell him he lets his country down when we played Everton though for some reason.
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Just for the record.....
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England are very well organised, it's not the most exciting at times but Southgate rather than try and have a load of attacking freedom has set the team up well organised and hope the big players perform.
So far there is no denying it is working just about. Do we wan to watch end to end football or do we want to get results? For England it's results, if it was rovers more excitement but in a knock out tournament he just now needs two wins and he's done it.
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Netherlands it is in the Semi Final
Hopefully we will win & it will be an entertaining game.
Both would be a bonus.
Camps, mate.
Which is more important to you:
Play really well, be entertaining but lose the game, or Not play really well, but do enough to win.
The latter hound. Obviously I want us to win.
Last night was much better than previous games. Maybe i am looking for perfection. There is no such thing.
Let’s face it if Rovers were winning with so few attempts at goal we would all be saying we were lucky and it won’t last. We will have to improve performances to keep winning.
Yes if we can win ugly that’s a great trait to have. When we do click as a team we will be a very dangerous outfit.
Credit to Southgate where it’s due. The team spirit in the camp is fantastic. There is a real togetherness.
GS is a great man manager that comes through very clearly.
Where he falls down for me is his tactical nous during a game. He is not re active enough.
If he had made those subs at 60 mins we may have well won that game in normal time.
We will never know of course.
Onwards and upwards. My gut feeling is this is our year. It seems the stars ar aligned.
If we do win it I promise not to say anything negative about GS again. Well not at least until the next World Cup :)
Assuming he carries on as Manager.
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Netherlands it is in the Semi Final
Hopefully we will win & it will be an entertaining game.
Both would be a bonus.
Camps, mate.
Which is more important to you:
Play really well, be entertaining but lose the game, or Not play really well, but do enough to win.
The latter hound. Obviously I want us to win.
Last night was much better than previous games. Maybe i am looking for perfection. There is no such thing.
Let’s face it if Rovers were winning with so few attempts at goal we would all be saying we were lucky and it won’t last. We will have to improve performances to keep winning.
Yes if we can win ugly that’s a great trait to have. When we do click as a team we will be a very dangerous outfit.
Credit to Southgate where it’s due. The team spirit in the camp is fantastic. There is a real togetherness.
GS is a great man manager that comes through very clearly.
Where he falls down for me is his tactical nous during a game. He is not re active enough.
If he had made those subs at 60 mins we may have well won that game in normal time.
We will never know of course.
Onwards and upwards. My gut feeling is this is our year. It seems the stars ar aligned.
If we do win it I promise not to say anything negative about GS again. Well not at least until the next World Cup :)
Assuming he carries on as Manager.
I understand your points about GS tactical nous. However those things he does that seem wrong - like Trippier on the left side of defence for example. I'm sure he has reasons for these things that are not immediately obvious. They are part of a bigger web of tactical decisions that will make perfect sense to him even while looking ridiculous to us. I just think we should trust that he has a better idea of what is for the best than we do. And I think he has earned that trust.
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This is a really weird tournament for me personally involving England .
Previously as we've progressed I'm completely consumed by us and the desire to actually win a major tournament is just too much at times .
I've cried like a baby , notably Italia 90 and Euro 96 when we cruelly went out , I was stunned in the final against Italy , the disappointment was immense .
During the world cup semi final against Croatia my hands were actually shaking , it was all too much to bear .
None of these things are inside my soul during this tournament , I'm yet to so much as punch the air when we've scored despite the obvious drama so far .
The football is turgid , boring and unexciting despite having some of the most talented players in European football representing us .
All the emotion that previously existed inside my soul has been eradicated just watching our performances .
Yet here we are with once again a major tournament win in sight .
I'd love to feel like I have done previously , I want us to win that trophy , the boost to the country would be immense and my word we need all the good news we can get right now .
Maybe the semi final will reignite me , I want to us to win the bloody thing but i want to be emotionally invested as I have been previously .
We've grinded it out so far , a bit of exciting football would be nice .
Please .
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His record in tournaments is undeniable but he’s has been extremely fortunate with some of the draws.
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His record in tournaments is undeniable but he’s has been extremely fortunate with some of the draws.
And the best players available to him since Sven's squads.
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Netherlands it is in the Semi Final
Hopefully we will win & it will be an entertaining game.
Both would be a bonus.
Camps, mate.
Which is more important to you:
Play really well, be entertaining but lose the game, or Not play really well, but do enough to win.
The latter hound. Obviously I want us to win.
Last night was much better than previous games. Maybe i am looking for perfection. There is no such thing.
Let’s face it if Rovers were winning with so few attempts at goal we would all be saying we were lucky and it won’t last. We will have to improve performances to keep winning.
Yes if we can win ugly that’s a great trait to have. When we do click as a team we will be a very dangerous outfit.
Credit to Southgate where it’s due. The team spirit in the camp is fantastic. There is a real togetherness.
GS is a great man manager that comes through very clearly.
Where he falls down for me is his tactical nous during a game. He is not re active enough.
If he had made those subs at 60 mins we may have well won that game in normal time.
We will never know of course.
Onwards and upwards. My gut feeling is this is our year. It seems the stars ar aligned.
If we do win it I promise not to say anything negative about GS again. Well not at least until the next World Cup :)
Assuming he carries on as Manager.
I understand your points about GS tactical nous. However those things he does that seem wrong - like Trippier on the left side of defence for example. I'm sure he has reasons for these things that are not immediately obvious. They are part of a bigger web of tactical decisions that will make perfect sense to him even while looking ridiculous to us. I just think we should trust that he has a better idea of what is for the best than we do. And I think he has earned that trust.
It’s not just us supporters though is it.
All the pundits on TV are saying the same as well. They are nearly all ex top international footballers.
Yes maybe they never won anything at international level but you have to respect their knowledge.
You mention Trippier. He played more as a winger than a full back ( wing back ) but he was totally ineffective in that position as a right footer. He had very little defending to do so could not Gordon have played that role.
When the subs eventually came on at 1-0 down he put Shaw at left centre back not wing back. Eieze went to wing back and spent more time defending than attacking. He is also right footed isn’t he?
GS could have put Gomes on as Left CB and put Shaw at wing back.
It didn’t make any sense at all. Does he not want us to be a balanced team and play with real width on both sides of the pitch?
I assume Konsa went off due to injury, it was never mentioned or at least if it was I missed it. I know he got a knock and needed treatment.
I assume it must have been injury and not tactical as I thought he had a great game and along with Saka was our best player.
I am totally baffled by Southgate’s tactics. If he wins this Euro’s then I will hold my hands up and admit he is a tactical genius and had us all fooled.
I have a feeling he will have the last laugh and i along with millions of others will have egg on our face.
I sincerely hope that is the case.
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The emergence of Guehi, Konsa and Eze have been a massive plus, we just need to find a LB/LWB to cover Shaw now
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Yes there seems to be a bit of Martinez syndrome with Southgate in declining to substitute Kane when it was obvious he was ineffective. The crashing into the hordings and apparent injury looked like a godsent excuse to replace him for both manager and player.
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His record in tournaments is undeniable but he’s has been extremely fortunate with some of the draws.
2018 I'll accept was a bit luck as we got a better draw by finishing second in the group than if we'd have won it. As I've said earlier on the thread we keep saying that because we're facing "TLO" Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Colombia in the knock out stages because in some cases better teams have been knocked out, but by reversing that logic, we've done beetter than these teams have as we haven't been knocked out by one of these nations or even in the goup stage. Lots of nations look very well organised with clear game plans and are a lot more of a threat than they were 10+ years ago.
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There was a good period in the 2nd half where we were flat and we were asking for trouble. But there were a lot of positives to take from the game. I thought the first half we were brilliant and the commentator was talking tripe when the HT whistle blew. I don’t get people who look at the shots on/off target stats. For me cutting through a team and getting in behind is a chance and we were doing that. We just have to be more ruthless on Wednesday and score first.
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This is a really weird tournament for me personally involving England .
Previously as we've progressed I'm completely consumed by us and the desire to actually win a major tournament is just too much at times .
I've cried like a baby , notably Italia 90 and Euro 96 when we cruelly went out , I was stunned in the final against Italy , the disappointment was immense .
During the world cup semi final against Croatia my hands were actually shaking , it was all too much to bear .
None of these things are inside my soul during this tournament , I'm yet to so much as punch the air when we've scored despite the obvious drama so far .
The football is turgid , boring and unexciting despite having some of the most talented players in European football representing us .
All the emotion that previously existed inside my soul has been eradicated just watching our performances .
Yet here we are with once again a major tournament win in sight .
I'd love to feel like I have done previously , I want us to win that trophy , the boost to the country would be immense and my word we need all the good news we can get right now .
Maybe the semi final will reignite me , I want to us to win the bloody thing but i want to be emotionally invested as I have been previously .
We've grinded it out so far , a bit of exciting football would be nice .
Please .
I 100% agree on all of that Tyke. We have some excellent players and I do believe we will win this competition in spite of having GS as manager and not because of him being in charge.
I'm sure you will feel a lot happier after the win and a few pints int taaarn.
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There are probably about 40 million football fans who think they know better than Southgate and fancy themselves to be more tactically aware than him.
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Its wrong to slate Southgate, as an England manager he's reached a level few other more vaunted manager ever did, he deserves praise for that. It would be nice to finally go all the way, he's been close a couple of times now, when you look back he was in a position to win both times (Euros, World Cup)but it looked like the pragmatism and risk averse nature that had got him there finally proved his downfall.
This tournament like the others mentioned is following the same pattern, if he gets us all the way and wins the thing then great.
Im thinking along the same lines as what others have already pointed out, we may win this thing but in the process its killed our enthusiasm of football stone dead with these soulless and joyless displays, if this is our ultimate aim then great, they will come home to a feeling of nothingness and indifference.
Every tournament of his tenure has resulted in me more and more not caring one jot for the spectical, if this is success in football then great, but count me out, i've got better things to do to occupy the time.
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There are probably about 40 million football fans who think they know better than Southgate and fancy themselves to be more tactically aware than him.
And 30 million of them are probably correct. ;) ;)
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In 2004 we were the best team and should have won the Euros at a canter. Wayne Rooney was the star of the show.
We went out on penalties to Portugal at the first knock out stage. Greece, who were the most negative team in the tournament went on to win it.
Its an odd world.
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There are probably about 40 million football fans who think they know better than Southgate and fancy themselves to be more tactically aware than him.
And 30 million of them are probably correct. ;) ;)
We really do need a tongue in cheek emoji don’t we E4D.
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In 2004 we were the best team and should have won the Euros at a canter. Wayne Rooney was the star of the show.
We went out on penalties to Portugal at the first knock out stage. Greece, who were the most negative team in the tournament went on to win it.
Its an odd world.
We were over in Portugal for the group games in 2004 and also went to the Greece v Russia match in Malaga.
Greece were awful and lost the match 2-1 and we thought they wouldn’t get out of the group.
Hard to believe they won the trophy.
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Its wrong to slate Southgate, as an England manager he's reached a level few other more vaunted manager ever did, he deserves praise for that. It would be nice to finally go all the way, he's been close a couple of times now, when you look back he was in a position to win both times (Euros, World Cup)but it looked like the pragmatism and risk averse nature that had got him there finally proved his downfall.
This tournament like the others mentioned is following the same pattern, if he gets us all the way and wins the thing then great.
Im thinking along the same lines as what others have already pointed out, we may win this thing but in the process its killed our enthusiasm of football stone dead with these soulless and joyless displays, if this is our ultimate aim then great, they will come home to a feeling of nothingness and indifference.
Every tournament of his tenure has resulted in me more and more not caring one jot for the spectical, if this is success in football then great, but count me out, i've got better things to do to occupy the time.
Obviously at times we have struggled to ignite the games but we have, more often than not, been in control of them.
We all would like the team to play expansive and exciting football but I keep seeing the teams doing that getting knocked out of the competition.
Im not having my enthusiasm killed off at all because we keep progressing.
Some people have been comparing Southgates football to that of Danny Schofield but the main difference is that Rovers results were terrible.
Tournament football is all about winning and England are doing that.
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I see your point and would love to feel the same way. it just feels so sterile and bland,
I never thought i'd see an England team play more backwards and sideway passes then what we've had to endure at Rovers but i have now.
Id love them to go on and win the thing but i've got this awful feeling that as previously we will flatter to deceive, just when that bit of spark, magic and imagination is needed to get over the final hurdle we will fall again because of the attitude we now fully demonstrate.
I've watched most of the games this Euros and our matches have been some of the most dire to get through, if that brings home the goods, great, but with the squad we have, really?
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I’ve been critical of Southgate this tournament for the first time but the fact is we’re in a semi final, let’s try and enjoy it!
Netherlands are definitely beatable and the final is anyone’s game.
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
They're beginning to come round mate.
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
They're beginning to come round mate.
You're right, Goole Rover, those first three games put me into a coma.
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Its wrong to slate Southgate, as an England manager he's reached a level few other more vaunted manager ever did, he deserves praise for that. It would be nice to finally go all the way, he's been close a couple of times now, when you look back he was in a position to win both times (Euros, World Cup)but it looked like the pragmatism and risk averse nature that had got him there finally proved his downfall.
This tournament like the others mentioned is following the same pattern, if he gets us all the way and wins the thing then great.
Im thinking along the same lines as what others have already pointed out, we may win this thing but in the process its killed our enthusiasm of football stone dead with these soulless and joyless displays, if this is our ultimate aim then great, they will come home to a feeling of nothingness and indifference.
Every tournament of his tenure has resulted in me more and more not caring one jot for the spectical, if this is success in football then great, but count me out, i've got better things to do to occupy the time.
Obviously at times we have struggled to ignite the games but we have, more often than not, been in control of them.
We all would like the team to play expansive and exciting football but I keep seeing the teams doing that getting knocked out of the competition.
Im not having my enthusiasm killed off at all because we keep progressing.
Some people have been comparing Southgates football to that of Danny Schofield but the main difference is that Rovers results were terrible.
Tournament football is all about winning and England are doing that.
The football league is all about winning also. That’s the object of every game. OR AT LEAST IT SHOULD BE.
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
Sakas goal was our first effort on target & we were hanging on at the end of extra- time against SWITZERLAND. Forgive me for not getting over excited. I still think the England team has gone backwards since the world cup& Southgate needs to go even if we win this tournament, which i doubt.
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Its wrong to slate Southgate, as an England manager he's reached a level few other more vaunted manager ever did, he deserves praise for that. It would be nice to finally go all the way, he's been close a couple of times now, when you look back he was in a position to win both times (Euros, World Cup)but it looked like the pragmatism and risk averse nature that had got him there finally proved his downfall.
This tournament like the others mentioned is following the same pattern, if he gets us all the way and wins the thing then great.
Im thinking along the same lines as what others have already pointed out, we may win this thing but in the process its killed our enthusiasm of football stone dead with these soulless and joyless displays, if this is our ultimate aim then great, they will come home to a feeling of nothingness and indifference.
Every tournament of his tenure has resulted in me more and more not caring one jot for the spectical, if this is success in football then great, but count me out, i've got better things to do to occupy the time.
Obviously at times we have struggled to ignite the games but we have, more often than not, been in control of them.
We all would like the team to play expansive and exciting football but I keep seeing the teams doing that getting knocked out of the competition.
Im not having my enthusiasm killed off at all because we keep progressing.
Some people have been comparing Southgates football to that of Danny Schofield but the main difference is that Rovers results were terrible.
Tournament football is all about winning and England are doing that.
The football league is all about winning also. That’s the object of every game. OR AT LEAST IT SHOULD BE.
Of course the EFL games are about winning, where have I said differently.
Our win ratio under Schofield was terrible.
People might have been more forgiving had we won most of the games he was in charge of.
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
Sakas goal was our first effort on target & we were hanging on at the end of extra- time against SWITZERLAND. Forgive me for not getting over excited. I still think the England team has gone backwards since the world cup& Southgate needs to go even if we win this tournament, which i doubt.
Grayx, Switzerland are the tenth highest ranked country in Europe and 19th in the World rankings.
They are hardly a team full of dumplings.
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
Sakas goal was our first effort on target & we were hanging on at the end of extra- time against SWITZERLAND. Forgive me for not getting over excited. I still think the England team has gone backwards since the world cup& Southgate needs to go even if we win this tournament, which i doubt.
Grayx, Switzerland are the tenth highest ranked country in Europe and 19th in the World rankings.
They are hardly a team full of dumplings.
They are a decent side hound, but i thought a lot of our players were running on empty towards the end. Kane in particular was out on his feet and looked desperate to come off. Thats 2 lots of extra time we’ve had to come through with just about the same starting line- up in all our games and fatigue was mentioned after our first match. Southgates not brave enough to rest some of his favourites and make better use of his squad unless injuries/ suspensions force his hand. I fear come the semi ( and hopefully the final) this will prove to be our undoing. Hope im wrong.
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His record in tournaments is undeniable but he’s has been extremely fortunate with some of the draws.
Has he though? England did the job and won the group. The England half is supposedly weaker because the teams in the other half (France etc) failed to win theirs.
For me Spain are favourites then England.
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His record in tournaments is undeniable but he’s has been extremely fortunate with some of the draws.
Has he though? England did the job and won the group. The England half is supposedly weaker because the teams in the other half (France etc) failed to win theirs.
For me Spain are favourites then England.
Spain won their group and have had to play Germany and France. Landing on Switzerland and Holland in the same scenario is fortunate. That’s undeniable.
Spain are Favourites, then England. That’s correct.
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As important as having a great manager in football terms, in tournaments, what is better, a football genius or one that is lucky?
like Southgate.
I feel we have one thing over the other sides that not many of the others have got, that is winning when we don't play that well as a team, France are the same, we both have individuals that can turn a game around in a moment, and as Mr clough used to say, it only takes one moment to win a game of football.
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Totally agree with Tyke. Just getting bored watching England. So negative and so repetitive. Pass back, pass side wards, take a corner and it ends back with our goalkeeper. The players are not playing well.
Just sat and watched the penalties with no emotion.
No jumping out the chair and celebrating. Want to win with style, skill and endeavour. If we win the Tournament this will set a blue print for negative football.
Southgate is out of his depth.
What has he achieved as a football manager? Sod all!
Our luck will run out. He doesn’t deserve to win the Tournament.
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I see many are still fighting to be as negative as possible, we’re in a semi final for gods sake.
We played well last night against a side that many on here said would be better than us. They weren’t!
Even if we win the tournament there’ll be lots of people slagging Southgate off just because they can’t admit they were wrong,
His tournament record is astounding when you think of what happened before he arrived.
Sakas goal was our first effort on target & we were hanging on at the end of extra- time against SWITZERLAND. Forgive me for not getting over excited. I still think the England team has gone backwards since the world cup& Southgate needs to go even if we win this tournament, which i doubt.
This kind of post is embarrassing,
It’s like saying if rovers win the league we must sack McCann because the football wasn’t exciting.
It’s tournament football and most of the winners play pragmatic football,
We’re in another semi final, he’s won more knockout games in his 7 years than we’d won in the previous 70 years.
What is wrong with people?
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One moment of genuis from bellingham and saka and we are in the semis, do not think this has anything to do with southgate, southgate s record is better than than most because he has won penalty shoot outs where most have lost, we have better technical players now and they are better at penaltys nothing to do with southgate being a good manager
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Ha ha ha
The old were doing well so it can’t have anything to do with Southgate.
That’s a great one
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One moment of genuis from bellingham and saka and we are in the semis, do not think this has anything to do with southgate, southgate s record is better than than most because he has won penalty shoot outs where most have lost, we have better technical players now and they are better at penaltys nothing to do with southgate being a good manager
That has to win the most ridiculous post of the tournament.
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One moment of genuis from bellingham and saka and we are in the semis, do not think this has anything to do with southgate, southgate s record is better than than most because he has won penalty shoot outs where most have lost, we have better technical players now and they are better at penaltys nothing to do with southgate being a good manager
That has to win the most ridiculous post of the tournament.
Really?
I think its spot on.
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So, if the team succeeds it has nothing to do with Southgate, but if it fails it is Southgate's fault.
I see!
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Totally agree with Tyke. Just getting bored watching England. So negative and so repetitive. Pass back, pass side wards, take a corner and it ends back with our goalkeeper. The players are not playing well.
Just sat and watched the penalties with no emotion.
No jumping out the chair and celebrating. Want to win with style, skill and endeavour. If we win the Tournament this will set a blue print for negative football.
Southgate is out of his depth.
What has he achieved as a football manager? Sod all!
Our luck will run out. He doesn’t deserve to win the Tournament.
Got to admit it is getting a bit repetitive, another semi final, and such a boring penalty shoot out, why can’t we miss and make it more exciting. And who are Switzerland anyway? could only draw with Germany and only managed to beat the reigning champions 2-0.
Come on England do what the Golden era did. And Southgate is so poor he’ll never hit the heights of achievements by Sven, Capello, Taylor, Venables, Hoddle, Robson,the guy who tried to speak Dutch, Greenwood, Revie etc etc.
Some folk need to change their sport.
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One moment of genuis from bellingham and saka and we are in the semis, do not think this has anything to do with southgate, southgate s record is better than than most because he has won penalty shoot outs where most have lost, we have better technical players now and they are better at penaltys nothing to do with southgate being a good manager
That has to win the most ridiculous post of the tournament.
Really?
I think its spot on.
Well of course you do!
You’re also posting the same negative drivel as him.
England have been so bad in tournaments for almost every tournament for 60 years, we have a manager now that is consistently getting us to semi finals and finals and we have people saying he should be sacked even if we win it.
It’s absolutely ridiculous, who do you think we are to be so entitled!
It’s insane
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So, if the team succeeds it has nothing to do with Southgate, but if it fails it is Southgate's fault.
I see!
Exactly mate
That’s exactly what it is!
When we lose it’s Southgate hasn’t got a clue when we win it’s got nothing to do with him.
The fact we scored 5 penalties last night is all down to the environment he’s created
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Maslow's Hierarchy of Football Needs.
1) Have a team to support.
2) Don't have that team embarrass you.
3) Occasionally look moderately competitive.
4) Go a reasonable distance in a competition.
5) Look like potentially winning a competition.
6) Win a competition
7) Win a competition playing football for the ages.
Most of my life, England fans have been somewhere between 1 and 3 on that hierarchy.
Under Southgate they have consistently been at 4-5.
There's a serious chance they could get to 6 this time.
And folk are moaning that we're not at 7.
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Beautiful Billy.
Wish I'd thought of Maslow. A perfect illustration of the whole thing.
BobG
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Totally agree with Tyke. Just getting bored watching England. So negative and so repetitive. Pass back, pass side wards, take a corner and it ends back with our goalkeeper. The players are not playing well.
Just sat and watched the penalties with no emotion.
No jumping out the chair and celebrating. Want to win with style, skill and endeavour. If we win the Tournament this will set a blue print for negative football.
Southgate is out of his depth.
What has he achieved as a football manager? Sod all!
Our luck will run out. He doesn’t deserve to win the Tournament.
Got to admit it is getting a bit repetitive, another semi final, and such a boring penalty shoot out, why can’t we miss and make it more exciting. And who are Switzerland anyway? could only draw with Germany and only managed to beat the reigning champions 2-0.
Come on England do what the Golden era did. And Southgate is so poor he’ll never hit the heights of achievements by Sven, Capello, Taylor, Venables, Hoddle, Robson,the guy who tried to speak Dutch, Greenwood, Revie etc etc.
Some folk need to change their sport.
You forgot Winter Walterbottom.
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It's not negative drivel to make perfectly accurate observations about how it is only flashes of individual brilliance that has kept us in this tournament for so long.
A lot of supporters are dismayed that a team so bristling with talent is playing drab, dull, unexciting soccer. You only have to look at Spain to see the contrast. The irony is that the 2 most arguably undeserving and boring teams, England and France, might well end up being the finalists in which case the end will have undoubtedly justified the means.
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So, if the team succeeds it has nothing to do with Southgate, but if it fails it is Southgate's fault.
I see!
Incredible isn't it?
Are those arguing against Southgate prepared to confirm that they would give him no credit at all if we win this tournament?
Exactly mate
That’s exactly what it is!
When we lose it’s Southgate hasn’t got a clue when we win it’s got nothing to do with him.
The fact we scored 5 penalties last night is all down to the environment he’s created
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It's not negative drivel to make perfectly accurate observations about how it is only flashes of individual brilliance that has kept us in this tournament for so long.
A lot of supporters are dismayed that a team so bristling with talent is playing drab, dull, unexciting soccer. You only have to look at Spain to see the contrast. The irony is that the 2 most arguably undeserving and boring teams, England and France, might well end up being the finalists in which case the end will have undoubtedly justified the means.
Do you think other teams aren't 'bristling with talent'?
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‘Kinell.!! Maslow’s taxonomy on a 4th division football forum..
Tend to agree though.. I admit I would prefer if we played more decisive, up tempo football - not for the enjoyment of it per se, more that it shows we have greater capabilities giving confidence ahead of facing better sides.
Of course the manager should be praised for the teams successes.
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Maslow's Hierarchy of Football Needs.
1) Have a team to support.
2) Don't have that team embarrass you.
3) Occasionally look moderately competitive.
4) Go a reasonable distance in a competition.
5) Look like potentially winning a competition.
6) Win a competition
7) Win a competition playing football for the ages.
Most of my life, England fans have been somewhere between 1 and 3 on that hierarchy.
Under Southgate they have consistently been at 4-5.
There's a serious chance they could get to 6 this time.
And folk are moaning that we're not at 7.
Complete nonsense - people are not moaning because we're not winning the tournament playing football for the ages. What is even the point of trying to characterise it as that?
The problem is that you want to be excited to watch the team you support. And right now, even though we're in the semis - plenty are not excited by this manager.
This is in marked contrast to 2018, where Southgate felt like a breath of fresh air. For the first time in my life England were a team I could be proud of. We were giving it a real go. Same in 2021. Look at the way we came out in the final against Italy, we were fearless. Over the past few years, that fearless mentality has started to fade. It's undeniable.
Having said all that, now we are in the semis I am starting to feel a bit more excitement.
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It's not negative drivel to make perfectly accurate observations about how it is only flashes of individual brilliance that has kept us in this tournament for so long.
A lot of supporters are dismayed that a team so bristling with talent is playing drab, dull, unexciting soccer. You only have to look at Spain to see the contrast. The irony is that the 2 most arguably undeserving and boring teams, England and France, might well end up being the finalists in which case the end will have undoubtedly justified the means.
Dismayed that the national team which has been absolute shite for decades in tournament after tournament is now consistently going deep into tournaments
Dismayed indeed
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Football league = 40+ games of hard slog week in week out. For that yes you do need an element of entertainment
International tournament = 7 games of I couldn't care less so long as we win. Even getting to semis or finals isn't winning, granted, but it still gets you excited. If you can't be jumping up and down after we win on pens or have a tinge of excitement that we've got to a semi AGAIN (thanks Gareth) then I'd suggest you change your passport to Georgian or Turksih. You can have that warm glow inside that you played well but didn't progress
And please please no more "but we should be...", "but with these players....". Blah. That's just English arrogance to assume the "best" on paper should win. Which we do every 2 years since Lampard et al
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It looks like people take a different view on whether it’s England or Rovers.
For me, this is like if Grant bought what on paper was the best team in League 2, the bookies had us as clear favourites to win the league, and we ended up playing games against Bromley and Tranmere having 1 shot on target and struggling to get a result.
If we had an average squad that would be fine, but the frustration for a lot of us is the feeling that any other manager would be getting a better performance out of these players.
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Football league = 40+ games of hard slog week in week out. For that yes you do need an element of entertainment
International tournament = 7 games of I couldn't care less so long as we win. Even getting to semis or finals isn't winning, granted, but it still gets you excited. If you can't be jumping up and down after we win on pens or have a tinge of excitement that we've got to a semi AGAIN (thanks Gareth) then I'd suggest you change your passport to Georgian or Turksih. You can have that warm glow inside that you played well but didn't progress
And please please no more "but we should be...", "but with these players....". Blah. That's just English arrogance to assume the "best" on paper should win. Which we do every 2 years since Lampard et al
Well yep ultimately it's a results business but neither do you get a free pass with that .
There's respect for the game for starters , the money the fans have spent to get to Germany , the millions of pounds tv companies have paid to broadcast the tournament and of course the sponsors .
Entertaining football has to be in there somewhere .
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The issue Gareth has in his way of playing, or not playing if we’re honest, means it’s completely all or nothing.
Playing like this we can only win the tournament or else we’re left thinking why did we turn up and not try. Playing so beneath ourselves in fear of everyone no matter how poor they are.
We’re in the Semis and the passion for so many isn’t there. It’s not just a few trolls it feels like the vast majority are watching out of duty only.
If Spain got beat by France they’d be gutted but know they went as far as they could and left nothing to chance. If we lose to Holland playing like this we’re just left with question marks. The end result is the same but humans aren’t machines it’s not binary. The way things make you feel matters and this isn’t doing it for most people.
If we win none of this matters and he’ll rightly get his knighthood and history won’t remember any of our negativity. If we don’t we’ll all remember this as one we were too scared to win. Simply put by been so negative he’s raised the stakes. Lose and they’ll be nothing redemptive about it.
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It's not negative drivel to make perfectly accurate observations about how it is only flashes of individual brilliance that has kept us in this tournament for so long.
A lot of supporters are dismayed that a team so bristling with talent is playing drab, dull, unexciting soccer. You only have to look at Spain to see the contrast. The irony is that the 2 most arguably undeserving and boring teams, England and France, might well end up being the finalists in which case the end will have undoubtedly justified the means.
It becomes 'drivel', 'embarrassing' etc when you don't agree with certain posters, it seems to annoy some when others opinions differ from there own. Me personally would never call other posters 'embarrassing' or are talking 'drivel' because their opinions are different.
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It looks like people take a different view on whether it’s England or Rovers.
For me, this is like if Grant bought what on paper was the best team in League 2, the bookies had us as clear favourites to win the league, and we ended up playing games against Bromley and Tranmere having 1 shot on target and struggling to get a result.
If we had an average squad that would be fine, but the frustration for a lot of us is the feeling that any other manager would be getting a better performance out of these players.
It’s hardly that is it
We’re only the favourites with bookies in this country for obvious reasons.
How many of this squad would’ve got in the golden generation starting 11? Not many.
We have 2 or 3 world class players but the rest of the squad isn’t better than the other top teams in the tournament, far from it
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The issue Gareth has in his way of playing, or not playing if we’re honest, means it’s completely all or nothing.
Playing like this we can only win the tournament or else we’re left thinking why did we turn up and not try. Playing so beneath ourselves in fear of everyone no matter how poor they are.
We’re in the Semis and the passion for so many isn’t there. It’s not just a few trolls it feels like the vast majority are watching out of duty only.
If Spain got beat by France they’d be gutted but know they went as far as they could and left nothing to chance. If we lose to Holland playing like this we’re just left with question marks. The end result is the same but humans aren’t machines it’s not binary. The way things make you feel matters and this isn’t doing it for most people.
If we win none of this matters and he’ll rightly get his knighthood and history won’t remember any of our negativity. If we don’t we’ll all remember this as one we were too scared to win. Simply put by been so negative he’s raised the stakes. Lose and they’ll be nothing redemptive about it.
The passion was there in italia 90 and euro 96, when the performances were poor.
The issue now is that people enjoy being negative, it happens on this forum all season long.
Another reason is we’ve had a bit of success in tournaments so people expect us to do well, where in the past we were shite so if we reached the semis it was a massive achievement and everyone was excited, now because of the success Southgate has brought us, people are taking it for granted!
We will look back at this era with fondness yet the people living it can’t enjoy it
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You’re probably right. Also it’s a defence against disappointment. France have been pretty terrible too but they have pedigree we just don’t.
Seeing other years and the hype around it coming home I’m not sure people enjoy being negative more than getting carried away.
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It looks like people take a different view on whether it’s England or Rovers.
For me, this is like if Grant bought what on paper was the best team in League 2, the bookies had us as clear favourites to win the league, and we ended up playing games against Bromley and Tranmere having 1 shot on target and struggling to get a result.
If we had an average squad that would be fine, but the frustration for a lot of us is the feeling that any other manager would be getting a better performance out of these players.
It’s hardly that is it
We’re only the favourites with bookies in this country for obvious reasons.
How many of this squad would’ve got in the golden generation starting 11? Not many.
We have 2 or 3 world class players but the rest of the squad isn’t better than the other top teams in the tournament, far from it
Exactly this, in spades. Some posters will either look back over time & use it as an excuse, whilst detracting from we as supporters of our country are actually watching. Last game excluded.
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Success isn’t getting deep into tournaments though, success is winning it. If you don’t win it you have not reached the target you have set out to achieve therefore you have failed. England have a history of shooting themselves in the foot in knockout stages of competitions whether it be silly individual errors, poor tactics or completely bottling it. I for one won’t be convinced that Southgate is a good manager but the blame isn’t completely on him for performances. The players have to own it when they are poor. What he has done is created a real togetherness in the dressing room and stopped the divide of our players at club level and I feel that is what has got us to the semis. Are we capable of going all the way? Yes. Will we? Probably not.
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If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.
I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped
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Success isn’t getting deep into tournaments though, success is winning it. If you don’t win it you have not reached the target you have set out to achieve therefore you have failed. England have a history of shooting themselves in the foot in knockout stages of competitions whether it be silly individual errors, poor tactics or completely bottling it. I for one won’t be convinced that Southgate is a good manager but the blame isn’t completely on him for performances. The players have to own it when they are poor. What he has done is created a real togetherness in the dressing room and stopped the divide of our players at club level and I feel that is what has got us to the semis. Are we capable of going all the way? Yes. Will we? Probably not.
I think this "win or it's a failure" attitude needs to be tempered by a realistic assessment of where England have ranked historically.
Go back over the 50 years before 2018 and it's a pretty sorry story. Based on tournament outcomes, we've typically been about the 8th best side in Europe on average, and about the 16th best side in the world.
It's hard to swallow, but the evidence is unarguable. Historically over that 50 years we had never really been a contender. Whisper it, but over that period we weren't very good, despite that fact that we like to consider ourselves among the football powerhouses.
See it that way and it's a difficult argument to make that we MUST win a tournament or we are failures, still less that we should do so playing exciting football. We are already, consistently performing way above our historical average.
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I’m quite shocked but at the same time pleased that we strongly agree with each other on this subject billy
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Success isn’t getting deep into tournaments though, success is winning it. If you don’t win it you have not reached the target you have set out to achieve therefore you have failed. England have a history of shooting themselves in the foot in knockout stages of competitions whether it be silly individual errors, poor tactics or completely bottling it. I for one won’t be convinced that Southgate is a good manager but the blame isn’t completely on him for performances. The players have to own it when they are poor. What he has done is created a real togetherness in the dressing room and stopped the divide of our players at club level and I feel that is what has got us to the semis. Are we capable of going all the way? Yes. Will we? Probably not.
I think this "win or it's a failure" attitude needs to be tempered by a realistic assessment of where England have ranked historically.
Go back over the 50 years before 2018 and it's a pretty sorry story. Based on tournament outcomes, we've typically been about the 8th best side in Europe on average, and about the 16th best side in the world.
It's hard to swallow, but the evidence is unarguable. Historically over that 50 years we had never really been a contender. Whisper it, but over that period we weren't very good, despite that fact that we like to consider ourselves among the football powerhouses.
See it that way and it's a difficult argument to make that we MUST win a tournament or we are failures, still less that we should do so playing exciting football. We are already, consistently performing way above our historical average.
We are talking about now Billy at this tournament in time .
Put it this way if we go out tomorrow evening with a poor performance are we saying It's still above average because Luther Blisset , Mark Barham and Steve Foster aren't in the team ? .
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It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.
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It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.
So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?
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If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.
I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped
Even if we had not ever won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.
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If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.
I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped
Even if we had not ever won had never won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.
I don’t believe that I think you’ve been listening to the hopeful and the media.
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It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.
So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?
Yes,
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If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.
I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped
Even if we had not ever won had never won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.
It’s realistic for a lot of teams in the tournament but only one can win it,
We’ve got to 3 semi finals out of the last 4 tournaments compared to 2 in the previous 50 years before Southgate joined.
It’s astounding that he gets so much stick
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If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.
I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped
Even if we had not ever won had never won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.
It’s realistic for a lot of teams in the tournament but only one can win it,
We’ve got to 3 semi finals out of the last 4 tournaments compared to 2 in the previous 50 years before Southgate joined.
It’s astounding that he gets so much stick
I think we have proven we can perform well under Southgate but, you are in the minority with that one. I hope you are right this time Sunday mind.
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The problem with Southgate is it was an underwhelming appointment. If mourinho had taken over at the same time and taken us to 3 semi finals out of 4 tournaments, with exactly the same performances, he would be being lauded a genius for transforming the national team
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It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.
So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?
Getting to the last four in the Euros?
Of course that would mean we’d done OK!
You don’t agree?
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The problem is that England are frustrating to watch under Southgate. I think most of us want to win but do so with attractive performances.
Like Spain do.
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It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.
So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?
Getting to the last four in the Euros?
Of course that would mean we’d done OK!
You don’t agree?
No I don't , given the talent we have , the way we've played and the way the draw opened up I think it will have been an underwhelming tournament should we go out tonight .
More importantly perhaps I reckon the FA will also think that and there will be a change in management .
I firmly believe Southgate has to win the tournament in order to justify the means in which it was achieved and stay on as HC .
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The problem is that England are frustrating to watch under Southgate. I think most of us want to win but do so with attractive performances.
Like Spain do.
This kind of statement I can’t get my head around. We’ve been terrible for 80 years doing shite in tournaments but now we’re doing well in each tournament people are unhappy because we’re not playing attractively enough for them
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It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.
So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?
Getting to the last four in the Euros?
Of course that would mean we’d done OK!
You don’t agree?
No I don't , given the talent we have , the way we've played and the way the draw opened up I think it will have been an underwhelming tournament should we go out tonight .
More importantly perhaps I reckon the FA will also think that and there will be a change in management .
I firmly believe Southgate has to win the tournament in order to justify the means in which it was achieved and stay on as HC .
Underwhelming to reach a euros semi final for only the third time ever.
Why are England footballs fans so entitled after being so shite for 80 years. It makes no sense at all
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I predict that Southgate will leave the job whatever the outcome in this tournament.
I think he will be confused, disappointed and disillusioned with how he is treated despite his undoubted success in overseeing England becoming a genuine world force.
I think the suggestion that we have better players than any other country and therefore should be winning these tournaments is overdone. Good old English exceptionalism but in reality, while we have world class players, we are not better than all the other teams in the tournament.
Classic case of be careful what you wish for. I wonder if in hindsight we will view Southgates tenure as manager as a golden era that we really should have been more grateful for. Time will tell.
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Southgate might get more praise a year or two after he has left.
There is no guarantee that his successor will have as much or even more success.
Watching all football teams can be frustrating and we could and maybe should have beaten Croatia, Italy and France in previous tournaments but unfortunately it happens. We might have still lost those games if we had played more on the front foot or made different subs during games.
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I know it’s not really fashionable these days (for anything) but I would say I occupy the middle ground with Southgate. I think he’s done a very, very good job with England and have a lot of respect for him, but I also think that regardless of what happens in the next game or two I would replace him.
He’s clearly an excellent man manager and the players love him, but there’s a lingering feeling that we could be doing more. He’s very conservative (nothing wrong with that, it won Deschamps a World Cup with a squad every bit as talented as ours) but to be relying on one or two shots on target to see you through a round of 16 or quarter final, when it’s not even against a favoured nation, means you’re very reliant on Lady Luck. The fact that we got through both is testament to the resilience that Southgate has built, but we could easily have gone out.
People say be careful what you wish for and there are cautionary tales in football like Charlton and Curbishley, but equally there are managers going and teams being elevated to the next level (Adkins/Poch at Southampton and Hughton/Potter at Brighton). Southgate himself also looks like he’s struggling with it - he’s snippier with the press and has seemingly created a siege mentality, which I fully understand. It must be difficult when half the country don’t like you, rate you and refuse to give you credit because you’re articulate and don’t bounce around the technical area like a mad man. Perhaps he’s also ready for a change either way as well.
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It is indisputable that Southgate has given us more 'success' than any England manager since Sir Alf. What I and most on here are disappointed with is his chosen method of achieving that, especially in this latest tournament.
The almost automatic choice to go backward or at best sideways even when there is a clear and obvious forward option is infuriating. Those occasions that going backward is necessary can be seen by anyone with eyes and wouldn't attract criticism but the way Southgate's team is playing it is totally sapping the enthusiasm out of the game for England supporters.
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It is indisputable that Southgate has given us more 'success' than any England manager since Sir Alf. What I and most on here are disappointed with is his chosen method of achieving that, especially in this latest tournament.
The almost automatic choice to go backward or at best sideways even when there is a clear and obvious forward option is infuriating. Those occasions that going backward is necessary can be seen by anyone with eyes and wouldn't attract criticism but the way Southgate's team is playing it is totally sapping the enthusiasm out of the game for England supporters.
This, especially the bold bit.
In terms of tournaments, Southgate has been a success beyond most of his predecessors, but that word “infuriating” is spot on.
We know the players are better than that, we see it week in week out. We need their regular type of performances to beat the top teams and win tournaments.
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Spain make more forward passes because they have the likes of Yamal and the rapid Williams stretching the defence and making runs in behind.
Morata is also very underrated and looks a lot sharper than Kane at present.
Their only weakness was Navas at right back but Carvajal is back for the final.
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I don’t understand the point about how we’ve been crap previously so we should be happy. That’s irrelevant.
We were the favourites to win this tournament before it started. We were 3rd favourites to win the last World Cup and we were second favourites to win Euro 2020 and ended losing to Italy who weren’t even fancied before the tournament began. All this has happened with Southgate getting incredibly lucky with the teams we’ve played.
So it’s completely rational for fans to expect Southgate to be getting to finals and winning them, regardless of the past, because this is what the bookies have expected based on the players we’ve got.
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I don’t understand the point about how we’ve been crap previously so we should be happy. That’s irrelevant.
We were the favourites to win this tournament before it started. We were 3rd favourites to win the last World Cup and we were second favourites to win Euro 2020 and ended losing to Italy who weren’t even fancied before the tournament began. All this has happened with Southgate getting incredibly lucky with the teams we’ve played.
So it’s completely rational for fans to expect Southgate to be getting to finals and winning them, regardless of the past, because this is what the bookies have expected based on the players we’ve got.
That’s nonsense.
We were the favourites only in this country because English people but bets on England.
To disregard all the history and all the failure is nonsensical,
This kind of success in tournaments has never been experienced before we should be enjoying it, and trust me many many people are,
But we have a few who can’t wait for us to fail, they will be negative even if we win the tournament..
If we win tonight it will be the first ever final we’ve reached on foreign soil in the history of football, yet folk will still be complaining
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With respect, what you’re saying is nonsense. If that’s how betting odds worked then England would be favourites for every tournament with bookies that operated in England. Are you suggesting in Scotland the bookies there had Scotland as favourites?
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Of course not
But how odds work is the number of people putting bets on effects the price
So in England there are far more people putting bets on England to win it so the price comes down because the bookies are a lot more vulnerable.
In Spain and France we weren’t the favourites
Nobody in Scotland would’ve been putting bets on them to win it so no they wouldn’t have been favourites.
Even when we were shite in tournaments we were amongst the favourites in this country
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Of course not
But how odds work is the number of people putting bets on effects the price
So in England there are far more people putting bets on England to win it so the price comes down because the bookies are a lot more vulnerable.
In Spain and France we weren’t the favourites
Nobody in Scotland would’ve been putting bets on them to win it so no they wouldn’t have been favourites.
Even when we were shite in tournaments we were amongst the favourites in this country
Aren’t most bookies a global market?
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Southgate might get more praise a year or two after he has left.
There is no guarantee that his successor will have as much or even more success.
Watching all football teams can be frustrating and we could and maybe should have beaten Croatia, Italy and France in previous tournaments but unfortunately it happens. We might have still lost those games if we had played more on the front foot or made different subs during games.
As I've said before, Bobby Robson was an object of absolute national hatred a match into Italia 90.
He's now seen as one of the very best managers England has ever produced.
And he was replaced by Graham Taylor...
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I think for his own sake Southgate should have gone before Qatar - after reaching our first final in 50 odd years and with pretty decent public support. He'd have left on a high then, and as others have said in retrospect we'll remember him positively, but right now there's a lot of people (me included) who want him gone irrespective of what happens here, and a general sense he's sapped the nations enthusiasm for tournament football.
it's a perfectly reasonable opinion that Southgate is a great manager and to be hailed for his accomplishments, but there's more than a minority who don't agree with that - 27 pages here, and thousands of comments on the BBC sports pages - and that's perfectly reasonable too!
I desperately hope we win tonight and Sunday, bring the nation back some footballing pride, and let Southgate step aside on a high.
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I remember robson getting loads of abuse in mexico 86 but did not think it was that bad in italia 90, a log time ago so my memory might not be that good
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Of course not
But how odds work is the number of people putting bets on effects the price
So in England there are far more people putting bets on England to win it so the price comes down because the bookies are a lot more vulnerable.
In Spain and France we weren’t the favourites
Nobody in Scotland would’ve been putting bets on them to win it so no they wouldn’t have been favourites.
Even when we were shite in tournaments we were amongst the favourites in this country
Aren’t most bookies a global market?
Exactly. If odds were higher on England to win in other counties everyone could make a gaurenteed profit by backing England abroad and laying them here at lower odds.
The fact is England are favourites because they had the best statistical chance of winning the tournament.
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No,
They had the guy from coral sports on the radio the other day and he said England are only the favourites in this country.
The price was different in other countries.
But the fact remains we’re always amongst the favourites and we’ve never come anywhere near the consistency we’re providing now under Southgate
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One change...
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2024/7/10/55e826e8-9f0c-411c-96eb-d7adcda92e3c.png)
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Konsa hard done by there, he was excellent against the Swiss but then Guehi has also been very good this tournament. It wouldn’t surprise me to see us revert to 4 at the back, will be interesting to see.
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No,
They had the guy from coral sports on the radio the other day and he said England are only the favourites in this country.
The price was different in other countries.
But the fact remains we’re always amongst the favourites and we’ve never come anywhere near the consistency we’re providing now under Southgate
Absolute b*llocks from the man from Coral. Markets are set by the 100s million bet in the Asian markets. If the English money did impact the price in anyway it would be no more than half a point. 3/1 instead of 7/2. Very negligible. We were favourites based on our record in recent tournaments and the quality of our players.
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Maybe so, I don’t know was just reiterating what he said.
He also said England have been amongst the top 3 favourites for every tournament they’ve been in since Euro 96
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One change...
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Isn’t Guehi right footed?
Another strange line up.
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Could easily be back to a back 4 with Trippier at left back.
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Playing against a team who won’t just sit back and challenge us to break them down might work in our favour tonight.
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We got the extra man in midfield and the better midfield, can we draw their wingers deeper or will they push our wing backs back
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Rice gets absolutely mugged off there, you can't account for that as a manager.
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This is more like it. Those never get given as a pen but anywhere else on the pitch you’d get a free kick and a card so I’m not disagreeing with them!
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You would be fuming if that penalty was given against you, maybe the football gods are on our side
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Need another before they get it at half time and Southgate tells them to stop it!
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That was definitely a pen, anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.
England are playing well, need to score whilst on top though
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If we can give Shaw 30min from the bench then it would add so much to us.
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Game is made for Shaw at LWB, you can see they are reluctant to give it to Trippier
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That was definitely a pen, anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.
England are playing well, need to score whilst on top though
We are playing well but that was never a penalty kanes follow through from his shot hit his studs even the var person was shocked it was given
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You can’t have your leg like that with your studs showing, how many times does a full back play the ball down the line and his follow through connect with the bloke trying to block it, every single time a free kick is given.
Definite pen for me
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That was definitely a pen, anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.
England are playing well, need to score whilst on top though
We are playing well but that was never a penalty kanes follow through from his shot hit his studs even the var person was shocked it was given
Anywhere else on the pitch its a free kick, so its a pen no doubt
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Miles better!
Come on England!!!
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His studs were up but kane kicked them, are defenders not allowed to block shots anymore
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Typical England play miles better but get beat!
Hoping not
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His studs were up but kane kicked them, are defenders not allowed to block shots anymore
It’s a foul anywhere else on the pitch
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His studs were up but kane kicked them, are defenders not allowed to block shots anymore
You have to win the ball in those situations, he didn’t so committed the foul
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His studs were up but kane kicked them, are defenders not allowed to block shots anymore
It’s a foul anywhere else on the pitch
It take it you were not a defender when you played because i would have been shocked if that was given against me
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Can’t help but question Kanes contribution. All round game has gone to pot compared to where he was before. Wish Watkins would get 30min to stretch them.
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Can’t help but question Kanes contribution. All round game has gone to pot compared to where he was before. Wish Watkins would get 30min to stretch them.
I agree and I think I’d bring him off but he’s the joint top scorer in the competition.
The Dutch have sat back now which is why the game has gone like it has,
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Walking towards extra time by the looks of it.
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Another euro final for Gareth Southgate.
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Get in!!!
Alls forgiven Southgate shouldn’t have doubted him! Playing well and winning like that makes such a difference.
If Watkins starts the next game Gareth might get another contract! Kane isn’t helping the team atm it’s obvious
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Where are you now, you who doubted Southgate you obviously don’t understand football. Brilliant tactics from day one Darren.
Let’s have a drink dickos, we stuck to our guns and showed um.
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Fair play Gareth, absolutely spot on tonight
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
I wouldn’t say we rode our luck. If you look at the 90 we’d have been unlucky to lose
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
What luck did we ride?
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
We were the better team throughout it would have been a travesty if we hadnt won.
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Got to remember Watkins was playing against a tired defence. Starting him might not be the best option imo. Great player to have to bring on though.
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Great subs, fair play for that. Holland were like a lot of teams we see at Donny. Sat back tried to hang on but the quality told in the end.
England have a great bench, it told tonight.
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So much better and more entertaining to watch.
Really good first half.
Second half the Dutch did a good job at stifling the game. As they had to.
But a fully deserved win.
I can't see how it was a penalty. But who cares.
If England approach the final in the same way against an excellent, attacking Spanish team it could be a great watch Sunday.
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Where are you now, you who doubted Southgate you obviously don’t understand football. Brilliant tactics from day one Darren.
Let’s have a drink dickos, we stuck to our guns and showed um.
I’ve been with you all the way too, where are we meeting?
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Well done Gareth, well done England, and well done Dickos. You've proved us all wrong.
I thought our midfield was superb tonight. Just too strong for them.
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Where are you now, you who doubted Southgate you obviously don’t understand football. Brilliant tactics from day one Darren.
Let’s have a drink dickos, we stuck to our guns and showed um.
I’ve been with you all the way too, where are we meeting?
Hey, worrabout me!
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Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
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Who would like custard with their humble pie and who would like gravy?
You all know who you are.
Well done Gareth, well done England.
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Where are you now, you who doubted Southgate you obviously don’t understand football. Brilliant tactics from day one Darren.
Let’s have a drink dickos, we stuck to our guns and showed um.
I’ve been with you all the way too, where are we meeting?
Hey, worrabout me!
You’re in mate.
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Where are you now, you who doubted Southgate you obviously don’t understand football. Brilliant tactics from day one Darren.
Let’s have a drink dickos, we stuck to our guns and showed um.
I’ve been with you all the way too, where are we meeting?
Let’s raise our glasses immediately after the National Anthem. I don’t know dickos but been with him all the way. So to Gareth so please don’t forget. Let’s look forward to raising a glass to Grant and Cliff in April.
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Who would like custard with their humble pie and who would like gravy?
You all know who you are.
Well done Gareth, well done England.
Yeah but we only got there coz of the easy route !!
Or so some will say.
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Unreal.we have a shot and we score
Not rocket science is it.
He is the luckiest manager on the planet. That goal was not down to his subs was it or lack of them.
This is so painful being an England supporter. It really should not be like this.
Did you enjoy that Campsall?
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Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
Rode our luck? We were miles better than them. Foden ran them ragged, and was unlucky not to score at least two.
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Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
caught Kane after the ball. Anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul, so it’s a penalty.
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I'm waiting for the old classic, "We got there despite Gareth Southgate, not because of him."
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Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
Rode our luck? We were miles better than them. Foden ran them ragged, and was unlucky not to score at least two.
I agree mile better team first half but it was never a penalty, there fore we rode our luck, anybody who thought that was a penalty has never played the game
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Fair play Gareth, absolutely spot on tonight
Subs were good ones but fcuk me he does leave them late. Kane offered very little again but guarantee he’ll start sun. The first half was the best we’ve played by a mile. I’d be fuming if we’d had a penalty given against us for that though.
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
it was a penalty
We had one cleared off the line, one that hit the post, dominated them for large periods of the game, we were the better team, there was no luck rode at all
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Result says it was a pen
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Playing against a team who won’t just sit back and challenge us to break them down might work in our favour tonight.
Good to hear that Gareth agrees with me.
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
it wasn’t a penalty
We had one cleared off the line, one that hit the post, dominated them for large periods of the game, we were the better team, there was no luck rode at all
Thats not the point we were the better team they hit the post we hit the post and we deserved to be in the lead at half time , but it was NOT a penalty and there fore we rode our luck
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Rode our luck but congratulations watkins superb finish think he needs to start his pace scares defenders
Rode our luck as it was never a penalty but thats football take your luck onwards and upwards
it was a penalty
We had one cleared off the line, one that hit the post, dominated them for large periods of the game, we were the better team, there was no luck rode at all
Don’t forget the disallowed Saka goal when Walker was inches offside too
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We were dominant and deserved to go through.
What is different about this England team (compared to any other in my lifetime by a galactic aeon) is we have genuine quality that can just pop up and show it's face at any time.
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We have absolute quality throughout the team and a bench beyond compare of most nations but some people think we only have about 3 world class players, get a life this squad is quality
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Our only weakness was set pieces. I winced every time and don't think we won a header in the second half. But the Spanish will pose a different kind of threat to the Dutch.
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All those in the media and on this forum who have been criticising Southgate are you all going to keep talking bullshit or give it a rest now?? As I said earlier, Southgate is the best manager for England and McCann is the best manager for Rovers. We are in the final! What more do you f**king want??
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I'm waiting for the old classic, "We got there despite Gareth Southgate, not because of him."
Not tonight, we were the better side, 1st half could have blown them away. 2nd half more cagey, but Southgate got his subs right & we deserved to win the game.
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Well he has got us to another final
So credit where credit is due.
Now let’s go and win it. Spain are a very good side but as we showed in that 1st half tonight so are we.
Spain are slight favourites but no question we can win this.
It’s all about belief and bravery and I gust hope the subs come on a little earlier if needed.
I thought Palmer and Watkins should have come on 10/15 mins earlier.
But it worked and we won with 1 second of normal time remaining.
Yes we are cutting it fine aren’t we but we are finding a way and that’s what counts.
The 1st half I thought we looked like Euro Champions and should with a bit of luck have gone in 3-1 up at H/T
We will need to play like the 1st half for 90 mins on Sunday if we are going to win it.
Come on England this is our time. It has to be.
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The first time ever in the history of football that we’ve reached a final on foreign soil and we have plebs saying we rode our luck.
Get a grip
I’ve got my ticket for Sunday, can’t wait
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Unreal.we have a shot and we score
Not rocket science is it.
He is the luckiest manager on the planet. That goal was not down to his subs was it or lack of them.
This is so painful being an England supporter. It really should not be like this.
Did you enjoy that Campsall?
Ist half yes I did. We looked like a team on a mission. 2nd half was attritional but we got the job done.
Thanks for asking.
Not sure why you picked me out to ask?
Everything I have posted previously has been what 99% of England fans, commentators, pundits etc have been saying.
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Attritional, come on, jesus
It’s a euros final, don’t really think we’re going to batter them for 90 mins.
We’ve got it done in 90 mins.
It was a great performance, and takes us to our first final ever on foreign soil
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Stuck on penalty. There's way too many of those challenges, where the defender gets nowhere near the ball but makes it inevitable that the player shooting or clearing gets hurt.
If you go in that high when the player playing the ball must follow through and crash into your studs, you either get the ball or it's a foul.
Dead simple.
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Even if we lose the final (and Spain are awesome) Southgate DOES NOT deserve the negativity and criticism he has received. I am absolutely fuming and if I say what I think I will be banned!!
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The first time ever in the history of football that we’ve reached a final on foreign soil and we have plebs saying we rode our luck.
Get a grip
I’ve got my ticket for Sunday, can’t wait
Wish i was there how much did the ticket cost you?
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Attritional, come on, jesus
It’s a euros final, don’t really think we’re going to batter them for 90 mins.
We’ve got it done in 90 mins.
It was a great performance, and takes us to our first final ever on foreign soil
Yes the 2nd half was attritional. Please don’t tell me we were playing flowing football.
Yes credit to Netherlands they stifled us.
No I don’t expect us to dominate for the entire match.
But yes it was attritional.
Crikey dickos I have said it as it is. It was a massively improved performance and we deserved to win.
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Attritional, come on, jesus
It’s a euros final, don’t really think we’re going to batter them for 90 mins.
We’ve got it done in 90 mins.
It was a great performance, and takes us to our first final ever on foreign soil
Yes the 2nd half was attritional. Please don’t tell me we were playing flowing football.
Yes credit to Netherlands they stifled us.
No I don’t expect us to dominate for the entire match.
But yes it was attritional.
Crikey dickos I have said it as it is. It was a massively improved performance and we deserved to win.
But nobody plays 90 minutes of free flowing football, that was as good a performance as you’ll see in a major tournament semi final.
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It seems we are stuck in 2 teams 1 who thinks the players are world class and 1 who thinks the manager is world class, i am in the players are world class, not the manager, even if he wins it i want him out robson, el tel was better than this boring manager, winning is not my priority i want exciting football back and i know today was better we need out football soul back
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It seems we are stuck in 2 teams 1 who thinks the players are world class and 1 who thinks the manager is world class, i am in the players are world class, not the manager, even if he wins it i want him out robson, el tel was better than this boring manager, winning is not my priority i want exciting football back and i know today was better we need out football soul back
From 1966 to 2018, "our football soul" usually meant, on average, losing in the QF of the Euros and the 2nd round of the WC.
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And we did not play boring crap
Remember euro 96 every other car had 2 england flags on it, this tournament i have seen 2 cars with flags on it.
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It seems we are stuck in 2 teams 1 who thinks the players are world class and 1 who thinks the manager is world class, i am in the players are world class, not the manager, even if he wins it i want him out robson, el tel was better than this boring manager, winning is not my priority i want exciting football back and i know today was better we need out football soul back
I can’t believe you’re still spouting this negative tripe.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Nobody is saying Southgate is a world class manager but the job he’s done is unbelievable when you compare the state of the national team when he took over once state it’s in now
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Thats the fact he is not a world class manager but he has a world class squad
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Not sure
Trippier, guehi, rice, mainoo,
These aren’t world class.
Also what about all the other squads that are just as good as ours?
Weve had better squads and never got past a quarter final, Southgate now has two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments
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Well… Southgate is a master of disguise. Had everyone thinking we were shite, then… tada… pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
That was a cracking game. Better team first half. Koeman panicked into throwing Weghorst on at half time. Holland had a good period of pressure second half, but overall we deserved to win.
Yes. It was a penalty.
Sako so unlucky with that Walker VAR. That’s when technology ruins things. Talking about a foot… Harsh but I get it.
And Olly Watkins. What a finish. Immaculate
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And we did not play boring crap
Remember euro 96 every other car had 2 england flags on it, this tournament i have seen 2 cars with flags on it.
I'll see your Euro 1996 and raise you the Euros in 1984 (oops, sorry), 1988, 1992, 2000, 2008 (oops, sorry), 2012 and 2016.
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58 years of hurt…
If he wants to, Gareth should stay whatever the result on Sunday. Win and everyone wants him to take us to the World Cup. Lose and he’s still done amazingly well so he should stay on, but he may have had enough.
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And we did not play boring crap
Remember euro 96 every other car had 2 england flags on it, this tournament i have seen 2 cars with flags on it.
Euro 96 we were rubbish apart from one half of football. Watch all the games back, I did the other week.
Even the Dutch game we were second best in the first half.
People were excited because it was the second decent tournament we’d had in 30 years, I remember flags everywhere in 2010 and we were proper shite then,
Fact it people have become accustomed now to us doing very well in tournaments, because Southgate has transformed tournament football for us
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Nice Dickos enjoy ! Massive result tonight, we were so much better. People need to get a grip over Southgate, the best manager the nation has had factually!
Nice bloke with a sense of service, he doesn’t need cash, or particularly want fame, he wants England to win.
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Where are you now, you who doubted Southgate you obviously don’t understand football. Brilliant tactics from day one Darren.
Let’s have a drink dickos, we stuck to our guns and showed um.
I’ve been with you all the way too, where are we meeting?
Hey, worrabout me!
You’re in mate.
Any room?
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
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Mainoo and Foden were outstanding in that first half, but the big thing for me against Spain is that we play Shaw at LWB, offers so much more than Trippier in that position
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
People need to understand the process you can’t be brilliant every game, the negativity was over the top. Yes we can say we weren’t very good but the comments about Southgate were a disgrace. People should be embarrassed
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
People need to understand the process you can’t be brilliant every game, the negativity was over the top. Yes we can say we weren’t very good but the comments about Southgate were a disgrace. People should be embarrassed
Bang on.
When other teams have had a bad day but scraped through with a late goal the same people have said that good teams always find a way to win.
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Attritional, come on, jesus
It’s a euros final, don’t really think we’re going to batter them for 90 mins.
We’ve got it done in 90 mins.
It was a great performance, and takes us to our first final ever on foreign soil
Yes the 2nd half was attritional. Please don’t tell me we were playing flowing football.
Yes credit to Netherlands they stifled us.
No I don’t expect us to dominate for the entire match.
But yes it was attritional.
Crikey dickos I have said it as it is. It was a massively improved performance and we deserved to win.
But nobody plays 90 minutes of free flowing football, that was as good a performance as you’ll see in a major tournament semi final.
Dickos for crying out loud, why can’t you accept anyone who sees it differently to yourself.
Personally I think there is still plenty of room for improvement. Last night we looked like a team, a proper team. But in the 2nd half we never got on the front foot until Watkins and Palmer came on.
They should have been on after around 65 mins not 80 mins. It was obvious we needed to change things and this is GS weakness.
But it worked and we won so that’s what we all wanted. Job done.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
No one is saying his record isn’t good.
What many have been saying is the football has been slow, boring and too defensive.
That is factual not fiction. 99% of people can’t be wrong.
If we win it on Sunday then yes not many will care about it. If we lose then it will re surface no doubt.
The fact is we all want us to WIN SOMETHING. It’s 58 years. 58 years of hurt. FINISHING 2nd is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Might sound harsh but the bottom line is, WE HAVE TO WIN or its going to be seen as failure again.
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I expect Sunday will be Southgate’s last game in charge. Whatever the result, he should walk away with his head held high. He’s presided over the most consistent tournament form in our history and he’s done so with dignity and grace. I do sometimes wonder if it’s his statesman like demeanour that’s the root of some of his unpopularity, which is a bit sad really. On the football side, I think we can all point to times where we’d like to have seen a bit more of an expansive approach, but you can’t argue with the facts - his relative success far outweighs any of his predecessors. It can’t just be down to the players, otherwise we’d have been in semi finals and finals constantly with the so called golden generation. But we reached none.
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I expect Sunday will be Southgate’s last game in charge. Whatever the result, he should walk away with his head held high. He’s presided over the most consistent tournament form in our history and he’s done so with dignity and grace. I do sometimes wonder if it’s his statesman like demeanour that’s the root of some of his unpopularity, which is a bit sad really. On the football side, I think we can all point to times where we’d like to have seen a bit more of an expansive approach, but you can’t argue with the facts - his relative success far outweighs any of his predecessors. It can’t just be down to the players, otherwise we’d have been in semi finals and finals constantly with the so called golden generation. But we reached none.
Jonathan, I really would like to believe that you're thought on the statesman like demeanour is wrong but sadly as recent and present evidence on the Off Topic forum suggests there are all to many people who favour fluff over substance.
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Attritional, come on, jesus
It’s a euros final, don’t really think we’re going to batter them for 90 mins.
We’ve got it done in 90 mins.
It was a great performance, and takes us to our first final ever on foreign soil
Yes the 2nd half was attritional. Please don’t tell me we were playing flowing football.
Yes credit to Netherlands they stifled us.
No I don’t expect us to dominate for the entire match.
But yes it was attritional.
Crikey dickos I have said it as it is. It was a massively improved performance and we deserved to win.
But nobody plays 90 minutes of free flowing football, that was as good a performance as you’ll see in a major tournament semi final.
Dickos for crying out loud, why can’t you accept anyone who sees it differently to yourself.
Personally I think there is still plenty of room for improvement. Last night we looked like a team, a proper team. But in the 2nd half we never got on the front foot until Watkins and Palmer came on.
They should have been on after around 65 mins not 80 mins. It was obvious we needed to change things and this is GS weakness.
But it worked and we won so that’s what we all wanted. Job done.
To be fair I thought he got his tactics spot on last night. And this is from someone who's been critical of him in this tournament.
The first half the Dutch came to play a bit but we dominated because we have better players, and clearly the 3/5 at the back system suits us more. Second half the Dutch sat back more, looked to spoil and stifle the game in a well-organised mid block, and doubled up on Foden who was running the show in the first half. They are no mugs, they're a big physical side with lots of pace that means they always looked threatening on the counter or from a set piece.
Sometimes you can only play as well as the other team allows you to. We've struggled against teams playing like that throughout this tournament, but last night we mostly kept control, tired them out, and brought on the subs to make an impact just as the Dutch started to get leggy, and were probably mentally looking ahead to extra time.
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Virgil van Dijk having to say something nice about England I assume
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Attritional, come on, jesus
It’s a euros final, don’t really think we’re going to batter them for 90 mins.
We’ve got it done in 90 mins.
It was a great performance, and takes us to our first final ever on foreign soil
Yes the 2nd half was attritional. Please don’t tell me we were playing flowing football.
Yes credit to Netherlands they stifled us.
No I don’t expect us to dominate for the entire match.
But yes it was attritional.
Crikey dickos I have said it as it is. It was a massively improved performance and we deserved to win.
But nobody plays 90 minutes of free flowing football, that was as good a performance as you’ll see in a major tournament semi final.
Dickos for crying out loud, why can’t you accept anyone who sees it differently to yourself.
Personally I think there is still plenty of room for improvement. Last night we looked like a team, a proper team. But in the 2nd half we never got on the front foot until Watkins and Palmer came on.
They should have been on after around 65 mins not 80 mins. It was obvious we needed to change things and this is GS weakness.
But it worked and we won so that’s what we all wanted. Job done.
There are two teams in every game, people go on like we just have to turn up and be superb.
The most successful teams in tournaments have been the pragmatic ones. That’s a fact
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Well that was so refreshing wasn't it. It didn't take long to see the approach to the game was so much more positive. Seeing Foden get into those pockets causing the Dutch all sorts of problems. Despite going a goal down, it spurred us on to the best first 45 mins we've seen for a long time and they were relieved for it to be 1-1 at HT.
Whilst the subs were perhaps later than we would have liked Southgate made them and we felt for once we wanted to win the game in 90 mins. I had reservations about Watkins but, it was the right sub, and the right message that came with it....and, that was a proper centre forwards finish!!
Thank you Gareth for letting the Lions loose.
Now, if you're in the Spain camp, you'll be confident in your own ability but when they've watched that last night, they'll be privately thinking "Oh sh*t " because they know, they're going to have to work their nuts off to win the final. The seeds of doubt have been sewn.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
No one is saying his record isn’t good.
What many have been saying is the football has been slow, boring and too defensive.
That is factual not fiction. 99% of people can’t be wrong.
If we win it on Sunday then yes not many will care about it. If we lose then it will re surface no doubt.
The fact is we all want us to WIN SOMETHING. It’s 58 years. 58 years of hurt. FINISHING 2nd is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Might sound harsh but the bottom line is, WE HAVE TO WIN or its going to be seen as failure again.
I doubt very much that 99% of England fans want GS out, it isn’t even that on this forum.
Out of interest Camps, who do you think should get the managers job.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
The criticism of Southgate’s record is that when we come up against a team as good as us on paper, we lose when it matters.
“Since September 2016, England have won just seven of their 23 matches against teams ranked in the world’s top ten.”
We were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia and were saved by a moment of individual brilliance.
What will be the first real test on paper for our players is on Sunday.
Like you, I hope we win it. For the nation and for Southgate. Such a sweet moment shouldn’t be something we goad and mock each other about.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
No one is saying his record isn’t good.
What many have been saying is the football has been slow, boring and too defensive.
That is factual not fiction. 99% of people can’t be wrong.
If we win it on Sunday then yes not many will care about it. If we lose then it will re surface no doubt.
The fact is we all want us to WIN SOMETHING. It’s 58 years. 58 years of hurt. FINISHING 2nd is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Might sound harsh but the bottom line is, WE HAVE TO WIN or its going to be seen as failure again.
Why? I genuinely think Spain are better than us.
His record isn't a failure. If success and failure is that black and white why aren't 70+ managers sacked every May?
Also, slow and defensive football set us up quite nicely in 2012/13 L1.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
The criticism of Southgate’s record is that when we come up against a team as good as us on paper, we lose when it matters.
“Since September 2016, England have won just seven of their 23 matches against teams ranked in the world’s top ten.”
We were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia and were saved by a moment of individual brilliance.
What will be the first real test on paper for our players is on Sunday.
Like you, I hope we win it. For the nation and for Southgate. Such a sweet moment shouldn’t be something we goad and mock each other about.
The "we always lose against the first decent team" is lazy, false rhetoric and insulting to some of the teams we've beaten that have put better teams out already. Switzerand and Netherlands were a test.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
The criticism of Southgate’s record is that when we come up against a team as good as us on paper, we lose when it matters.
“Since September 2016, England have won just seven of their 23 matches against teams ranked in the world’s top ten.”
We were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia and were saved by a moment of individual brilliance.
What will be the first real test on paper for our players is on Sunday.
Like you, I hope we win it. For the nation and for Southgate. Such a sweet moment shouldn’t be something we goad and mock each other about.
The "we always lose against the first decent team" is lazy, false rhetoric and insulting to some of the teams we've beaten that have put better teams out already. Switzerand and Netherlands were a test.
I said “as good as us” not “decent”.
Look at the players of Netherlands and Switzerland compared to ours. Do you think they’re as good?
Netherlands knocked out Romania and Turkey. Switzerland a very poor Italy team.
I’ve also included an objective fact in my previous post.
I’m defending the right to have a different opinion, not choosing to die on that hill. The argument against this isn’t strong enough to conclude that people “should be embarrassed” or “know nothing about football”.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
No one is saying his record isn’t good.
What many have been saying is the football has been slow, boring and too defensive.
That is factual not fiction. 99% of people can’t be wrong.
If we win it on Sunday then yes not many will care about it. If we lose then it will re surface no doubt.
The fact is we all want us to WIN SOMETHING. It’s 58 years. 58 years of hurt. FINISHING 2nd is SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Might sound harsh but the bottom line is, WE HAVE TO WIN or its going to be seen as failure again.
I doubt very much that 99% of England fans want GS out, it isn’t even that on this forum.
Out of interest Camps, who do you think should get the managers job.
Where have I mentioned that 99% of England fans want GS out hound. I said 99% of supporters, media, pundits, ex players managers have been saying he is not great tactically and doesn’t react quick enough during games to make the changes needed.
Never mentioned he should go.
If we want another English manager then not sure there is anyone who fits the bill right now.
If he was to resign after this tournament then I think Klopp should be approached to see if he would be interested.
No I hope GS stays on in the job. He has created a great team spirit in the England camp. Probably the best we have ever had. He is a great man manager and has the utmost respect of the players.
Yes tactically he is re active rather than pro active, but the facts speak for themselves and he has done a tremendous job. If we win on Sunday he goes into hero status.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
The criticism of Southgate’s record is that when we come up against a team as good as us on paper, we lose when it matters.
“Since September 2016, England have won just seven of their 23 matches against teams ranked in the world’s top ten.”
We were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia and were saved by a moment of individual brilliance.
What will be the first real test on paper for our players is on Sunday.
Like you, I hope we win it. For the nation and for Southgate. Such a sweet moment shouldn’t be something we goad and mock each other about.
The "we always lose against the first decent team" is lazy, false rhetoric and insulting to some of the teams we've beaten that have put better teams out already. Switzerand and Netherlands were a test.
I said “as good as us” not “decent”.
Look at the players of Netherlands and Switzerland compared to ours. Do you think they’re as good?
Netherlands knocked out Romania and Turkey. Switzerland a very poor Italy team.
I’ve also included an objective fact in my previous post.
I’m defending the right to have a different opinion, not choosing to die on that hill. The argument against this isn’t strong enough to conclude that people “should be embarrassed” or “know nothing about football”.
Player for player there isn't much between us and the Netherlands, particularly in defence/GK. Also Romania were one of the brighter teams in the group stage.
I haven't made any point regarding your last sentence which is obviously correct.
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What would people prefer, a brilliant manager, or an average manager who is lucky to have a great group of players?
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
The criticism of Southgate’s record is that when we come up against a team as good as us on paper, we lose when it matters.
“Since September 2016, England have won just seven of their 23 matches against teams ranked in the world’s top ten.”
We were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia and were saved by a moment of individual brilliance.
What will be the first real test on paper for our players is on Sunday.
Like you, I hope we win it. For the nation and for Southgate. Such a sweet moment shouldn’t be something we goad and mock each other about.
The "we always lose against the first decent team" is lazy, false rhetoric and insulting to some of the teams we've beaten that have put better teams out already. Switzerand and Netherlands were a test.
I said “as good as us” not “decent”.
Look at the players of Netherlands and Switzerland compared to ours. Do you think they’re as good?
Netherlands knocked out Romania and Turkey. Switzerland a very poor Italy team.
I’ve also included an objective fact in my previous post.
I’m defending the right to have a different opinion, not choosing to die on that hill. The argument against this isn’t strong enough to conclude that people “should be embarrassed” or “know nothing about football”.
Surely you realise football doesn’t work like that, they beat them so that means they’re better than them.
That’s just rubbish.
Fact is over the last 4 tournaments he’s performed miles better than any other England manager has ever. We’ve never ever been consistently good in tournaments even when we won it.
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Just because England were very good last night doesn’t mean that people were wrong to point out they were bad before.
No but the annoying thing for me was the criticism of Southgate whose record speaks for itself.
The criticism of Southgate’s record is that when we come up against a team as good as us on paper, we lose when it matters.
“Since September 2016, England have won just seven of their 23 matches against teams ranked in the world’s top ten.”
We were 90 seconds away from getting knocked out by Slovakia and were saved by a moment of individual brilliance.
What will be the first real test on paper for our players is on Sunday.
Like you, I hope we win it. For the nation and for Southgate. Such a sweet moment shouldn’t be something we goad and mock each other about.
The "we always lose against the first decent team" is lazy, false rhetoric and insulting to some of the teams we've beaten that have put better teams out already. Switzerand and Netherlands were a test.
I said “as good as us” not “decent”.
Look at the players of Netherlands and Switzerland compared to ours. Do you think they’re as good?
Netherlands knocked out Romania and Turkey. Switzerland a very poor Italy team.
I’ve also included an objective fact in my previous post.
I’m defending the right to have a different opinion, not choosing to die on that hill. The argument against this isn’t strong enough to conclude that people “should be embarrassed” or “know nothing about football”.
Player for player there isn't much between us and the Netherlands, particularly in defence/GK. Also Romania were one of the brighter teams in the group stage.
I haven't made any point regarding your last sentence which is obviously correct.
I’d say you’re right on their back 4 being a similar standard. Our GK and midfield better. But our attack is world class, theirs is average. I am very positive in how much I rate our lads.
My last point was just to make sure you understood the argument I was making against the others.
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
If we do what we did in the last final v Italy and make the same tactical mistakes then that’s failure imo.
If on the other hand we lose to Spain because they were very good and were just a better team and we gave it everything we could and GS brought the subs on early, then I wouldn’t personally see it as failure.
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Spain can be beaten, they play open, which will suit us
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
If we do what we did in the last final v Italy and make the same tactical mistakes then that’s failure imo.
If on the other hand we lose to Spain because they were very good and were just a better team and we gave it everything we could and GS brought the subs on early, then I wouldn’t personally see it as failure.
It won’t be seen by failure by most, absolute nonsense.
Maybe the ones that aren’t really passionate about the national team.
But unless we get battered the players will be given a standing ovation on Sunday whatever the score
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I went to Dortmund with friends and he joined us in the fanzone .
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
If we do what we did in the last final v Italy and make the same tactical mistakes then that’s failure imo.
If on the other hand we lose to Spain because they were very good and were just a better team and we gave it everything we could and GS brought the subs on early, then I wouldn’t personally see it as failure.
Good grief you don’t want much. Is there a manager on the planet that you admire ?
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
Campsall, you are becoming the master of the sweeping statement.
Where is your evidence that it will be seen by failure by most if we lose in the final?
And your previous statement that Southgate plays boring football and “99% of people can’t be wrong”!
These are ridiculous claims. Why don’t you just state your own opinions instead of claiming to speak on behalf of “99% of people”?
For the record, please don’t include me in your statistics (which you said are “factual, not fiction”, another wild assertion on your part).
I will not see it as failure if we lose on Sunday, I already see it as a huge success to have made it to the final.
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I think we’ve got a great chance of winning it. Southgate has great options that can change games and I’d argue player vs player the England squad is on par with Spain.
It’s one game… anything can happen. Respect Spain but let’s not fear them.
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
Campsall, you are becoming the master of the sweeping statement.
Where is your evidence that it will be seen by failure by most if we lose in the final?
And your previous statement that Southgate plays boring football and “99% of people can’t be wrong”!
These are ridiculous claims. Why don’t you just state your own opinions instead of claiming to speak on behalf of “99% of people”?
For the record, please don’t include me in your statistics (which you said are “factual, not fiction”, another wild assertion on your part).
I will not see it as failure if we lose on Sunday, I already see it as a huge success to have made it to the final.
Look I am only going by what I think most people will think. Ok the 99% is not factual it’s an opinion. Ok.
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
If we do what we did in the last final v Italy and make the same tactical mistakes then that’s failure imo.
If on the other hand we lose to Spain because they were very good and were just a better team and we gave it everything we could and GS brought the subs on early, then I wouldn’t personally see it as failure.
Good grief you don’t want much. Is there a manager on the planet that you admire ?
What on earth are you talking about? :zzz: that is a bizarre post?
There are dozens of Managers that I admire. We have one at DRFC right now.
I admire Southgate with many of his managerial skills.
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I do hope those folks who've said they're bored, can't get excited about winning on pens, don't like the negative football etc aren't getting excited about appearing in a major tournament final. After all, that's not what football is about as we've not played every team off the park, not attacked every game. And that matters more, apparently
Plus Southgate only beats small teams. Forgetting the fact we used to lose to small teams and not reach tournament finals at all.
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The team with the best squad has got to the final, proving why we were favourites. I hope Southgate can finish the job this time. The first half against Netherlands was the most I’ve enjoyed watching England for a long time.
Re “we used to lose to small teams”, yes we did because ever since the Sven Goron Ericson days our squad has generally been poor. Looking back at old England squads I was genuinely astonished at some of the first teams we put out. A million miles away from the quality Southgate’s had available for the last 6 years.
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The team with the best squad has got to the final, proving why we were favourites. I hope Southgate can finish the job this time. The first half against Netherlands was the most I’ve enjoyed watching England for a long time.
Re “we used to lose to small teams”, yes we did because ever since the Sven Goron Ericson days our squad has generally been poor. Looking back at old England squads I was genuinely astonished at some of the first teams we put out. A million miles away from the quality Southgate’s had available for the last 6 years.
You're saying that about our old Sven, Capello, Hodgson squads with hindsight. And yes if you look at those squads now they're bang average. But just remember what it was like at the time, every 2 years it was the golden generation, we were going to win. And we performed bang average. Now we're actually getting to finals yet STILL the negativity of some on here or conversations you heard down the pub. Must be an English thing that I just don't get. It's almost like we're only worthy finalists if we've played champagne football which for some weird reason matters more in a tournament
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Getting to the final is a huge success and the manager and the squad are to be congratulated. To come second now would be disappointing on the day, but mitigated if Spain prove to be a better side, similar to the womens World Cup final.
However coming second isn’t a failure. Being the second best country in the continent - based on results - is miles better than we have ever been.
My issue has been we’ve not been consistently impressive in tempo and attack minded play. We have been far more consistent in defence which of course is vital. Playing with more attacking flair puts us closer to Spain.
However they are all only human, maybe Spain will not be at their best on Sunday, much like France weren’t against us at the last World Cup, where we were unlucky to go out IMHO.
But it will be seen as failure by most if we don’t win the Final.
If we do what we did in the last final v Italy and make the same tactical mistakes then that’s failure imo.
If on the other hand we lose to Spain because they were very good and were just a better team and we gave it everything we could and GS brought the subs on early, then I wouldn’t personally see it as failure.
Good grief you don’t want much. Is there a manager on the planet that you admire ?
What on earth are you talking about? :zzz: that is a bizarre post?
There are dozens of Managers that I admire. We have one at DRFC right now.
I admire Southgate with many of his managerial skills.
Seem to be coming in for a bit of stick Campsall.
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The team with the best squad has got to the final, proving why we were favourites. I hope Southgate can finish the job this time. The first half against Netherlands was the most I’ve enjoyed watching England for a long time.
Re “we used to lose to small teams”, yes we did because ever since the Sven Goron Ericson days our squad has generally been poor. Looking back at old England squads I was genuinely astonished at some of the first teams we put out. A million miles away from the quality Southgate’s had available for the last 6 years.
You're saying that about our old Sven, Capello, Hodgson squads with hindsight. And yes if you look at those squads now they're bang average. But just remember what it was like at the time, every 2 years it was the golden generation, we were going to win. And we performed bang average. Now we're actually getting to finals yet STILL the negativity of some on here or conversations you heard down the pub. Must be an English thing that I just don't get. It's almost like we're only worthy finalists if we've played champagne football which for some weird reason matters more in a tournament
The Sven “Golden generation” squads were quality but we competed with those squads. We were generally knocked out by the better teams, 2002 one of the best ever Brazil teams etc.
Capello and Hodgson squads were bang average with 2 or 3 quality players, which made people think we had a good team. I completely agree the media hype every tournament was ridiculous when there were usually 6 or 7 teams better placed to win it than us.
The talent available to us now, and I think the squad at this tournament is better than the last World Cup and Euros, is the envy of Europe. Any team would love to have half the quality we have now.
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Lol! If I were cynical Steve, I'd suggest that in general, supporters said words to the same effect in the tournament squads Capello, Hodgson and Ericsson put together.
I happen to agree with you Steve, but human capacity for self delusion is enormous. It's akin to a form of either mass hysteria or mass groupthink.
BobG
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The trouble was with svens golden generation was we just put the big name players in. Becks was rushed back. Rooney was once taken when injured. Lampard and Steve g proving to be 2 of the beat mids in the Premier was both played in the same team and neither played like they did for there clubs. We are now seeing the fruits from st George Park what ever it's called. Southgate had managed the under 21 so knew what he had coming through. The other youth teams have seen success and some ate now in the full squad. Imo there is no argument to be had about how good Southgate has been for the national team and win or lose he should take us to the world Cup. Quarter finals was seen as good in years gone by. GS has us in the semis and 2 finals. The monkey on our back regarding pen shoot outs has long left us. Yes some games haven't been great but we have grown into the final just like the great tournament team of old of Germany and Italy. Tomorrow is going g to be tough. Playing teams not sitting back will suit us and we have top top players who can hurt them. Trouble is so do they and they look like they been together a whole season playing week in week out.
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My 10-year old says we’re in the top 2 in Europe. Again. We’ve done better than Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium.
He’s spot on. I believe we’re going to be in ‘the top 1’ as Cloughie used to say!
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Picking up on a point further above, 2002 Brazil team one of their best ever? They were very good, yes, but not close to their best ever IMHO.
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The team with the best squad has got to the final, proving why we were favourites. I hope Southgate can finish the job this time. The first half against Netherlands was the most I’ve enjoyed watching England for a long time.
Re “we used to lose to small teams”, yes we did because ever since the Sven Goron Ericson days our squad has generally been poor. Looking back at old England squads I was genuinely astonished at some of the first teams we put out. A million miles away from the quality Southgate’s had available for the last 6 years.
More rubbish!
The squads from 2000 to 2010 were better than the one we have now and we were absolutely garbage, didn’t even qualify in 2008 and performed abysmally in the other tournaments
Now we’ve got to our first ever final in the last tournament and done it again. The argument that our squad is too good to not get to a final is rubbish and lazy as is the argument we’ve always played easy teams under Southgate
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I think Southgate has reached the minimum (again) of what should have been expected of the quality of his squad in a competition given the route we have had to the final. Anybody who denies that would argue that black is blue. In his tenure he has had the easiest route to the final in every competition he’s been involved in. Not saying that any game is easy when you get to a knockout but, if you could choose it yourself you would choose not to meet any of the nations that have won something. Other than beating Germany, we have been beaten every time we have been up against a team who you would consider a tough team to beat. Tactically against Croatia and Italy once going 1-0 up I believe we managed the games p!ss poor and ultimately lost the game on the back of that. In the game against Germany at Wembley I thought despite looking vulnerable to concede, we kept the foot on the peddle and got the win. World Cup against France I thought by a country mile we were the better team. Robbed again by the ref in the first half and Kane missing the penalty we have seen England knocked out that way many times. Tonight I believe we have a group that are better than Spain and I’m confident that if we are brave and take the game to them like we dis against France, we will beat them but, we have to start scoring when we are on top because they will find gaps in us there is no doubt.
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You have a habit Dickos of saying anything you don’t agree with is rubbish or nonsense.
The squads from 2000 to 2010 were better than we have now? Jesus Christ. Look at the 2008 squad as you’ve mentioned that one.
Keepers Robinson, Foster, Carson - all worse than we have now.
Defence G Neville, Richards, Ferdinand, Terry, Woodgate, Carragher, A Cole, P Neville. So you’d take Ferdinand Terry and Cole from that, otherwise none better than we have now.
Midfield Gerrard, Hargreaves, Lampard, Lennon, Parker, Carrick, Dyer, Downing, Johnson. So you’d take Gerrard and Lampard, everyone else way off the standard of today.
Strikers Rooney, Defoe, Bent. Obviously only Rooney from them.
So you’ve got maybe 6 players on a par or better than we have now, out of the entire squad.
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I'd love to think that we will play to our strengths and knock Spain off their stride. Do what we do best by being unpredictable, cause chaos in their penalty area with some brilliant interplay, wicked crosses into the box etc....alas, even after the semi final win, pyschologically we are too conservative to sustain that through the 90 minutes under Southgate.
The semi gave me a little hope that Southgate will try to win the game in 90, rather than settling for not losing and hoping for the best. This was a sign he may have learned from previous failures and as long as he encourages the players to try to win the game, using the bench well, then we can't ask for anymore.
Be brave and believe.
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The Dortmund riot police officer was almost identical .
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I'd love to think that we will play to our strengths and knock Spain off their stride. Do what we do best by being unpredictable, cause chaos in their penalty area with some brilliant interplay, wicked crosses into the box etc....alas, even after the semi final win, pyschologically we are too conservative to sustain that through the 90 minutes under Southgate.
The semi gave me a little hope that Southgate will try to win the game in 90, rather than settling for not losing and hoping for the best. This was a sign he may have learned from previous failures and as long as he encourages the players to try to win the game, using the bench well, then we can't ask for anymore.
Be brave and believe.
Bang on DBR
If we are not brave we will pay the penalty. Sit back and try and defend a lead and we will lose.
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Sven's golden generation you'd take the whole back 4, Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, Rooney. Problem was they weren't as good as they should have been put together.
The only player under Southgate tenure that's underperformed compared to playing for his club is Foden. Bar probably Beckham all the names mentioned above underperformed for England
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Well here we are and despite my criticism of this tournament performance so far ( not without foundation ) I'm thrilled as anybody to see us in another final .
Making the final is the par score for me given the talent we have and the way the draw opened up for us .
I along with many makes us underdogs which is fine because Spain have played the more impressive football and come from the harder side of the draw .
I think underdog suits us to be honest , just as long as we leave nothing on that pitch tonight then no matter what happens I'll live with it .
My gut tells me we are going to do it , things have happened in this tournament that's never happened before , normally we'd be out by now playing better football .
It could be our time and nothing the Spanish can do will prevent that .
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Spain have been playing great and entertaining football but I disagree that they have players equal to ours. Man for man we are better in nearly every position with just one or 2 exceptions. And our bench is far better. Spain being favorites is ridiculous in my opinion and the likes of Foden, Bellamy, Mainoo, Sara etc will have a field day with Spain's open style of play. A comfortable England victory awaits.
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Spain have been playing great and entertaining football but I disagree that they have players equal to ours. Man for man we are better in nearly every position with just one or 2 exceptions. And our bench is far better. Spain being favorites is ridiculous in my opinion and the likes of Foden, Bellamy, Mainoo, Sara etc will have a field day with Spain's open style of play. A comfortable England victory awaits.
Gosh I hope you’re right.
Comfortable. England rarely do comfortable in big games.
We definitely have a better bench. That’s our big weapon imo but GS needs to use that bench and use it in good time. Don’t leave it till the last 10 mins.
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We have to stop Rodri from dictating the game, eveything goes through him
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COME ON ENGLAND
THIS IS OUR TIME. LETS BRING IT HOME. :that:
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I just watched the little piece on bbc about Southgate.
Anyone who saw that will see that the claim that he isn’t passionate about England is ridiculous.
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I just watched the little piece on bbc about Southgate.
Anyone who saw that will see that the claim that he isn’t passionate about England is ridiculous.
No question he is hound. He wants this more than any of us.
I just hope he gets it. He deserves it.
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You have a habit Dickos of saying anything you don’t agree with is rubbish or nonsense.
The squads from 2000 to 2010 were better than we have now? Jesus Christ. Look at the 2008 squad as you’ve mentioned that one.
Keepers Robinson, Foster, Carson - all worse than we have now.
Defence G Neville, Richards, Ferdinand, Terry, Woodgate, Carragher, A Cole, P Neville. So you’d take Ferdinand Terry and Cole from that, otherwise none better than we have now.
Midfield Gerrard, Hargreaves, Lampard, Lennon, Parker, Carrick, Dyer, Downing, Johnson. So you’d take Gerrard and Lampard, everyone else way off the standard of today.
Strikers Rooney, Defoe, Bent. Obviously only Rooney from them.
So you’ve got maybe 6 players on a par or better than we have now, out of the entire squad.
That squad didn’t even qualify
The squad under Sven was better than this and that’s factual, a squad that never got past the quarters
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I think Southgate has reached the minimum (again) of what should have been expected of the quality of his squad in a competition given the route we have had to the final. Anybody who denies that would argue that black is blue. In his tenure he has had the easiest route to the final in every competition he’s been involved in. Not saying that any game is easy when you get to a knockout but, if you could choose it yourself you would choose not to meet any of the nations that have won something. Other than beating Germany, we have been beaten every time we have been up against a team who you would consider a tough team to beat. Tactically against Croatia and Italy once going 1-0 up I believe we managed the games p!ss poor and ultimately lost the game on the back of that. In the game against Germany at Wembley I thought despite looking vulnerable to concede, we kept the foot on the peddle and got the win. World Cup against France I thought by a country mile we were the better team. Robbed again by the ref in the first half and Kane missing the penalty we have seen England knocked out that way many times. Tonight I believe we have a group that are better than Spain and I’m confident that if we are brave and take the game to them like we dis against France, we will beat them but, we have to start scoring when we are on top because they will find gaps in us there is no doubt.
Suggesting something that has never been achieved in the history of English football is the minimum expectation is absolute shite
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Might have to bring the passenger Kane off. Looks like he's playing injured way off the pace
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Kanes a statue. Must be so annoying for Foden etc to keep running past him to close down or effect the game.
If we can stay 0-0 till Garteth brings him off then we’ve a good chance. That is if he’s brought off. Hope the fact it’s a final doesn’t get in the way of making the right decision. He probably souldnt of started but I understand it.
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Here we go again
Got to come from behind again.
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Playing a front 3 with no one to stretch the opposition defence getting found out against a top team.
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Kane needs to be off the pitch now.
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Afraid Kane has to come off as not contributing much.
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If we lose this he’ll regret the loyalty to Kane. He’s been awful all tournament despite a few tap ins. Offered nothing. Imagine if we were playing 11 v 11 not 10.2 v 11
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Paid them far to much respect, and paid the price
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Terrible selections from Southgate.
Kane and Foden have been rubbish all tournament, but he wouldn’t change the starting line up.
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We were beaten by a far better team I'm afraid.
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We were beaten by a far better team I'm afraid.
They don’t have better players than us.
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We were beaten by a far better team I'm afraid.
They did tonight.
They don’t have better players than us.
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Will we ever win anything ever again?
I really thought our name was on it.
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If we keep getting to finals we’ll win one eventually. Gripe with Southgate is we don’t seem to offer anything till we go behind. And why has Kane been starting any games he offered nothing all tournament.
Well done Spain much better team who play as a team and are brave in possession. We can learn a lot from them.
Gareth should probably stand down now with his head held high. Got us so much further than before but to get to the next level we need someone who isn’t scared to lose or drop big players who aren’t performing. Only a small improvement and we’re a real threat.
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We were beaten by a far better team I'm afraid.
They don’t have better players than us.
That's a moot point but they showed they are a better TEAM.
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Need to get rid of Southgate. Far too negative and completely risk averse.
Should have had players with pace and drive on the pitch.
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Well done Spain. Excellent.
Best team won the tournament.
Best team won the final.
A victory for brave, attacking tactics.
A victory for football.
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That was rubbish from England tonight, hardly laid a glove on them. Crap performance to say it was a final. Co gratulations to Spain, by far a better managed side.
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I can live with that , we lost to a far better team , simple as that .
I don't feel hard done by or frustrated because the best team won and dominated the majority of the game .
Some of our bigger names probably aren't as good at this level as they are portrayed and it showed tonight .
Well done Spain , worthy winners with some outstanding young players .
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Spain deserved it. Beat France, Germany and England, that's an amazing achievement.
Probably the end for Southgate but he's been an outstanding England manager.
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Kane does well when he has players stretching the game and trying to get behind the defence playing alongside him, like Son, Sane, etc... This team isn't setup for him to be successful.
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Kane does well when he has players stretching the game and trying to get behind the defence playing alongside him, like Son, Sane, etc... This team isn't setup for him to be successful.
Then Southgate should have set the team up to play to his strengths. He didn’t so it was a waste of time playing Kane.
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Here they go, the pundits who achieved not even finals nor semis at international level offering their "insight". Shearer/Murphy being by far the worst
"I'm tired of hearing that Southgate should get more from these players. I watched a team with Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Rooney, Terry, Ashley Cole, and Owen get absolutely nowhere near the heights of Southgate's team.".....well said
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Kane does well when he has players stretching the game and trying to get behind the defence playing alongside him, like Son, Sane, etc... This team isn't setup for him to be successful.
He must be injured. Never done the basics this tournament like holding the ball up and laying it off. He’s been levels below where he is normally. Can’t just be a lack of pace either side of him
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We need a manager that is prepared to be bold, we get back level then reverted back to letting Spain have the ball, and got punished for it
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I can live with that , we lost to a far better team , simple as that .
I don't feel hard done by or frustrated because the best team won and dominated the majority of the game .
Some of our bigger names probably aren't as good at this level as they are portrayed and it showed tonight .
Well done Spain , worthy winners with some outstanding young players .
That’s exactly how I feel
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Here they go, the pundits who achieved not even finals nor semis at international level offering their "insight". Shearer/Murphy being by far the worst
"I'm tired of hearing that Southgate should get more from these players. I watched a team with Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Rooney, Terry, Ashley Cole, and Owen get absolutely nowhere near the heights of Southgate's team.".....well said
What England teams have done in the past is completely irrelevant.
This attitude is why we never win anything.
Meanwhile Spain win their FOURTH euros.
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Need to get rid of Southgate. Far too negative and completely risk averse.
Should have had players with pace and drive on the pitch.
And replace him with who, and why this person
? Don’t forget he’s got the 2nd best record by any England manager
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We were too slack and sloppy, particularly Bellingham, Saka and Kane. At 1-1 having got back into the game, we lost concentration when we should have pushed on by making silly mistakes in possession.
On this occasion, I won't lay blame for Gareth not making changes, we just didn't get sufficient quality from our so called 'quality' players. Only Palmer showed the quality needed. Foden was starved of possession and we failed to play to Watkins strength.
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Oh well. Now that’s over - Rovers at Stamford on Tuesday! You Reds!
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Question marks have to be raised about Kanes continued selection. It’s painfully obvious he was detrimental to the team.
I get good teams can scrape through when playing poorly but it shouldn’t be our aim to play like that. Seems we defaulted to that and didn’t do enough to address it despite having the players
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Despite my ranting tonight it’ll quickly be forgotten.
The Rovers are the only team I really care about.
Come on Rovers !!
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
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Yep, no complaints Spain were better.
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
We had players on the bench, like Bowen and Gordon who could have hurt them with their pace, but no Southgate persevered with Kane and Foden, who’ve been awful all the way through.
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
I think that's fair. Our defence for the most part did well but like you say our midfield didn't function well enough, failing to get Foden in those pockets. Kane was very poor. Bellingham and others lost possession too easily, often taking too many touches. After we equalised we got very ragged from back to front.
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Best team won but you dont win tournaments playing an unfit, ineffective centre forward just because hes your captain. He was awful the whole tournament.
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
What’s your issue then? The best team were the…best team against us. Shocker.
It’s a shame we couldn’t do more but this is entirely how we’ve got through the tournament. Relied on individual moments to take us through. We got one again, it sadly wasn’t enough.
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I’m so surprised that nobody has identified the culprit of our defeat, WALKER. Lack of concentration and out of position. Please don’t blame Southgate. Previous posts state that they were the better team all that we’ve had on here is that Southgate had the best squad for years.
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I’m so surprised that nobody has identified the culprit of our defeat, WALKER. Lack of concentration and out of position. Please don’t blame Southgate. Previous posts state that they were the better team all that we’ve had on here is that Southgate had the best squad for years.
No, don’t blame Southgate. How could you have your love in if anyone did that?
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
We had players on the bench, like Bowen and Gordon who could have hurt them with their pace, but no Southgate persevered with Kane and Foden, who’ve been awful all the way through.
And Alexander-Arnold on the bench, one of the best attacking right backs in world football.
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I’m so surprised that nobody has identified the culprit of our defeat, WALKER. Lack of concentration and out of position. Please don’t blame Southgate. Previous posts state that they were the better team all that we’ve had on here is that Southgate had the best squad for years.
Another player Southgate continues to pick despite having better options available.
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Don’t mind losing to the better team.
But football is surely about seizing the moment.
Once we’d scored we had a little window to put them on the back foot and go and make history.
But we retreated and invited them onto us the Southgate way. Just like Croatia. Just like Italy.
We aren’t ever going to win anything with him in charge and although it was great to get to the final, we’ve been decent for two halves of football in my opinion.
Really disappointing to not go for it after scoring.
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
We had players on the bench, like Bowen and Gordon who could have hurt them with their pace, but no Southgate persevered with Kane and Foden, who’ve been awful all the way through.
Sorry tommy, but persevered with kane? He was hooked after 60mins.
And if you doubt he should of started. Then yes he should of absolutley start kane.
Kane is the best goalscorer in europe. You just need to find a way to utilise that. Kane will hit 30+ goals next season because he will have a midfield and wingers behind him who will provide him with the chances.
If kane wore a spanish shirt tonight, he would have had 2 or more goals with players like yemal and willams abd olmo
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I can live with that , we lost to a far better team , simple as that .
I don't feel hard done by or frustrated because the best team won and dominated the majority of the game .
Some of our bigger names probably aren't as good at this level as they are portrayed and it showed tonight .
Well done Spain , worthy winners with some outstanding young players .
That’s exactly how I feel
Me too,and they beat us playing football,close game and still in it right upto last 6 mins,the referee was good and fair,no cheating like Italy game where the ref let the Italians foul us all match,even to the point where they played hangman with Saka,I will sleep soundly tonight,whereas I was angry and bitter with Italy game for days.Bring on the season.
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Ah well, to achieve back-to-back Euro finals is something to be proud of.
Now, let's go and win the World Cup in 2026.
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I think Southgate has reached the minimum (again) of what should have been expected of the quality of his squad in a competition given the route we have had to the final. Anybody who denies that would argue that black is blue. In his tenure he has had the easiest route to the final in every competition he’s been involved in. Not saying that any game is easy when you get to a knockout but, if you could choose it yourself you would choose not to meet any of the nations that have won something. Other than beating Germany, we have been beaten every time we have been up against a team who you would consider a tough team to beat. Tactically against Croatia and Italy once going 1-0 up I believe we managed the games p!ss poor and ultimately lost the game on the back of that. In the game against Germany at Wembley I thought despite looking vulnerable to concede, we kept the foot on the peddle and got the win. World Cup against France I thought by a country mile we were the better team. Robbed again by the ref in the first half and Kane missing the penalty we have seen England knocked out that way many times. Tonight I believe we have a group that are better than Spain and I’m confident that if we are brave and take the game to them like we dis against France, we will beat them but, we have to start scoring when we are on top because they will find gaps in us there is no doubt.
Suggesting something that has never been achieved in the history of English football is the minimum expectation is absolute shite
He’s been beaten every single time we have stepped up to a standard that should beat us. You argue against that. Means you are a moron.
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Here is what happened….. we were beaten by the better manager yet again. Soon as we scored they changed what they were doing and we sh!t ourselves because Southgate couldn’t get to grips with what was happening. We go 2-1 down and we start finding pockets again. Southgate got his arse handed to him and nobody will tell me different. A world class team very poorly managed.
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We went out with a whimper. They played us off the park and they’ve done that to every team they’ve faced.
We looked leggy the whole way through and our best players were defenders. Luke Shaw did one hell of a job on Yamal.
The midfield, though, was dysfunctional all night. Mainoo hardly touched the ball and Rice gave the ball to a Spaniard more than an English player!
Did Kane and Foden actually play? Very poor.
Spain, by a country mile, the best team in the competition.
We had players on the bench, like Bowen and Gordon who could have hurt them with their pace, but no Southgate persevered with Kane and Foden, who’ve been awful all the way through.
And Alexander-Arnold on the bench, one of the best attacking right backs in world football.
Agreed. TAA doesn't play because he can't defend. Neither can Walker. Career is over when he loses a yard of pace as that has saved him over the years. Most overrated player I know. So is Rice too.
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England never built momentum of results and left it too late for the players to get into a winning frame of mind.
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Did I hear it right in Southgate’s post match interview where he said that Kane wasn’t fully tournament ready? And yet he plays him?
I would have had Pickford as captain for the Euro. And Kane on the bench as an impact player. The subs were better than kane. And they proved it.
Kane should be finished as England captain. Yet I fear he won’t be.
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Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role. So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
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Overall, we did well to get to the final really, getting away with sub standard football for the most part, punctuated with 'moments' that papered over the cracks.
It looked like a League Two team on a cup run who showed some pluckiness to get to the next rounds. Except, alot of those players are on relatively huge salaries .compared to their superior opponents.
Spain have been consistently good throughout and deserved to win by a mile. We went into the tournament poorly prepared as we were terrible in warm up games, not knowing what was our best team or formation. It's a familiar story over many, many years. Gareth has probably been better at giving young talent the opportunities and made something of the huge resources available to him at St George's Park BUT, we are still woefully short at structuring a team style/formation and in-game management.
Back to the drawing board.
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Here they go, the pundits who achieved not even finals nor semis at international level offering their "insight". Shearer/Murphy being by far the worst
"I'm tired of hearing that Southgate should get more from these players. I watched a team with Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Rooney, Terry, Ashley Cole, and Owen get absolutely nowhere near the heights of Southgate's team.".....well said
What England teams have done in the past is completely irrelevant.
This attitude is why we never win anything.
Meanwhile Spain win their FOURTH euros.
Spot on
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Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role. So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.
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Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role. So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.
On the whole they might not be quite as good as we think they are and build them up to be, but we've had the PL player of the season and the La Liga player of the season who have been poor for the majority of the tournament. They play for 2 of the best club managers of all time in Pep Guardiola & Carlo Ancelotti who have managed to get the best out of them, do you not think that any questions should be asked of the manager for failing to get even a fraction of that form out of them?
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I'm probably setting myself up for some stick here but I really felt for Kane during this tournament. At Spurs and at Munich he played with 2 players either side of him to make space and get the ball into the 6 yard box. If you notice, the very few times we got the ball to the touchline and into the penalty area he was always there. You don't score the goals he has by being a bad player. Yet so often in Germany he was a lone man up front trying to chase high balls! He has neither the speed or the height to play like this. He was sold a real pup.
As for Southgate I'm in a bit of a dilemma! He's been by far the most successful England manager during my lifetime of watching football and in the light of day, his record is excellent. Yet, watching his England sides play so defensive is dull and uninspiring and, in my view, doesn't play to our strengths! I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on!
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Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role. So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.
On the whole they might not be quite as good as we think they are and build them up to be, but we've had the PL player of the season and the La Liga player of the season who have been poor for the majority of the tournament. They play for 2 of the best club managers of all time in Pep Guardiola & Carlo Ancelotti who have managed to get the best out of them, do you not think that any questions should be asked of the manager for failing to get even a fraction of that form out of them?
Those 2 players are surrounded by World Class players at club level, Foden in particular is bang average without his exceptional City team mates around him
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none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Give over.
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Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role. So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.
On the whole they might not be quite as good as we think they are and build them up to be, but we've had the PL player of the season and the La Liga player of the season who have been poor for the majority of the tournament. They play for 2 of the best club managers of all time in Pep Guardiola & Carlo Ancelotti who have managed to get the best out of them, do you not think that any questions should be asked of the manager for failing to get even a fraction of that form out of them?
Those 2 players are surrounded by World Class players at club level, Foden in particular is bang average without his exceptional City team mates around him
He's not a competition winner, he's earned his place as a key part of that exceptional side because of his ability.
He has to take some responsibility for not stepping up but his place in the setup wasn't working until late on in the tournament. A different manager may have got more out of him.
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Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.
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I'm probably setting myself up for some stick here but I really felt for Kane during this tournament. At Spurs and at Munich he played with 2 players either side of him to make space and get the ball into the 6 yard box. If you notice, the very few times we got the ball to the touchline and into the penalty area he was always there. You don't score the goals he has by being a bad player. Yet so often in Germany he was a lone man up front trying to chase high balls! He has neither the speed or the height to play like this. He was sold a real pup.
As for Southgate I'm in a bit of a dilemma! He's been by far the most successful England manager during my lifetime of watching football and in the light of day, his record is excellent. Yet, watching his England sides play so defensive is dull and uninspiring and, in my view, doesn't play to our strengths! I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on!
Kane had a good tournament, relatively speaking. Did everything he was asked to do and still popped up with 3 goals in a side that struggled with build-up and chance creation, all while not fully fit. He's still the best number 9 in world football.
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I can live with that , we lost to a far better team , simple as that .
I don't feel hard done by or frustrated because the best team won and dominated the majority of the game .
Some of our bigger names probably aren't as good at this level as they are portrayed and it showed tonight .
Well done Spain , worthy winners with some outstanding young players .
I agree and unless you are able to see regular performances from international teams it is surely difficult to judge that one “should be better (if better managed)” against any other international teams. I know it is a well-worn proposition, but with such a high proportion of foreign players embedded in all European club teams, there must be an adverse effect on the development of native talent. Germany were more effective internationally before their club recruitment widened and I know Spain is well populated with non-nationals too, but England is surely the most heavily affected. There seems to be only a small proportion of home-born academy players at top clubs who make it to the first team. This may not constitute definitive proof, but it is arguably the case.
I cannot claim to have watched lots of the games this time, but I did think that England (unattractive as their style was early on) improved as the tournament progressed and I was surprised how effective their style of play was at suppressing the enterprise of their opponents. And this included Spain who were restricted in playing their usual game. So overall, second place to a team with seemingly better individual talent, could be the result of better coordination and deployment of the abilities of the individual team members than most of Southgate's international counterparts
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I'm probably setting myself up for some stick here but I really felt for Kane during this tournament. At Spurs and at Munich he played with 2 players either side of him to make space and get the ball into the 6 yard box. If you notice, the very few times we got the ball to the touchline and into the penalty area he was always there. You don't score the goals he has by being a bad player. Yet so often in Germany he was a lone man up front trying to chase high balls! He has neither the speed or the height to play like this. He was sold a real pup.
As for Southgate I'm in a bit of a dilemma! He's been by far the most successful England manager during my lifetime of watching football and in the light of day, his record is excellent. Yet, watching his England sides play so defensive is dull and uninspiring and, in my view, doesn't play to our strengths! I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on!
Agree with this. Not sure if we can fit Foden and Kane into the same team, Foden probably needs a focal point to work off, which Kane isn't, where as like you say Kane needs runners to stretch play like he's had with club teams and with Rashford and Sterling before.
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none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Give over.
Spain RB better than Walker
Spain LB in this tournament better than both that have played there.
Laporte better than Guehi only just
Stones better than other CH
Rodri better than a poor Rice
Ruiz been better than Mainoo
Olmo better than Foden by a mile in this tournament which showed last night. Bellingham playing in the Role would be mor competitive
Williams totally different player to Bellingham so he wouldn’t get in that Role
Saka completely out of the game last night and Yamal better tournament
Kane been poor all tournament is a better goal scorer than Morata but he beats Kane on work rate
So in my opinion only Stones would get in the side as an improvement on what they’ve got.
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It's quite obvious Southgate has taken us as far as he can. Thanks for turning us into a footballing force again. The last six years have had some amazing highs.
Leading a World Cup semi final at half time
Coming so close to winning the Euros in 2021
Scraping into another final this time out
But let's face it, we've rode our luck this tournament. It still hurt to lose, but not like 2021. We knew we were lucky to be in the final. And once we'd got back into the match we decided to retreat back into our own half.
It's time for some different tactics and a new manager.
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none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Give over.
Spain RB better than Walker
Spain LB in this tournament better than both that have played there.
Laporte better than Guehi only just
Stones better than other CH
Rodri better than a poor Rice
Ruiz been better than Mainoo
Olmo better than Foden by a mile in this tournament which showed last night. Bellingham playing in the Role would be mor competitive
Williams totally different player to Bellingham so he wouldn’t get in that Role
Saka completely out of the game last night and Yamal better tournament
Kane been poor all tournament is a better goal scorer than Morata but he beats Kane on work rate
So in my opinion only Stones would get in the side as an improvement on what they’ve got.
I’m talking about the players regardless of tournament form as Gareth has set ours up to look poor.
What makes the Spanish GK better than Pickford?
Morata is a good player but no better than Watkins or Kane.
Saka would put Yemal on the bench. He’s done what he has for 5 years at Arsenal.
Bellingham is better than Olmo.
Guehi is better than Laporte (plays Saudi league).
Cucurella no better than Shaw.
Put our attacking players in that Spanish system of round pegs in round holes and you’d see how good they were.
Whereas if you put our manager in charge of Spain they wouldn’t have won the euros.
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I do feel like we need to change things up a bit now and that means a change in manager. I’d like Southgate to open that door of his own accord and leave with his head held high. I feel like he’s taken this team as far as he can (which is nearly all the way) and there are too many questions around what we could achieve with a different approach. Exactly who comes in to replace him I do not know, and that’s a problem in itself. Whoever the next manager is, I think we need to get rid of any notion that they’ll instantly turn this team from runners up to champions elect. I’d love it if they did, but they’ve got a job on to even match Southgate’s tournament record let alone better it. The thing is it’s gone a little stale now and we have to try. Southgate leaves with a brilliant record and having totally raised the bar of realistic expectation.
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I do feel like we need to change things up a bit now and that means a change in manager. I’d like Southgate to open that door of his own accord and leave with his head held high. I feel like he’s taken this team as far as he can (which is nearly all the way) and there are too many questions around what we could achieve with a different approach. Exactly who comes in to replace him I do not know, and that’s a problem in itself. Whoever the next manager is, I think we need to get rid of any notion that they’ll instantly turn this team from runners up to champions elect. I’d love it if they did, but they’ve got a job on to even match Southgate’s tournament record let alone better it. The thing is it’s gone a little stale now and we have to try. Southgate leaves with a brilliant record and having totally raised the bar of realistic expectation.
Would agree with this. There will always be a bit of a debate with Southgate. Yes he arguably has the best record of any England manager in history - but was it as good as it should've been? He was brought in because the bods at the FA identified that tournament winning teams tend to be disciplined, defensively solid, and good in both boxes at set pieces. He delivered on that brief, but also shows a reluctance to deviate and adapt.
On balance I think we have had more positives than negatives with him and he should be proud of his record. He restored pride in the national team and got rid of the toxic dressing room atmosphere, which is no mean feat given where we were after the Hodgson/Allardyce debacles. And his record at tournaments over the years is as good as any international manager working today - except without that win to top it all off.
But he's probably run out of road now and needs to go. I think his tactics have been largely solved by opposition teams, it's not clear our current crops of players suit his system, and I don't know if he's shown he can adapt in response.
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interesting table from BBC that seems to indicate we were very poor offensively......... and definitely beaten by the best team in the tournament...
(http://)
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All these meaningless statistics are a big part of what is wrong with todays boring brand of football. As a spectator I want to see exciting games played by skilful footballers who are able to show their talent and I want to watch shots at goal rather than constant passing and keepy ball with real goals being scored not mathematical averages and being fed a load of pretend figures.
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All these meaningless statistics are a big part of what is wrong with todays boring brand of football. As a spectator I want to see exciting games played by skilful footballers who are able to show their talent and I want to watch shots at goal rather than constant passing and keepy ball with real goals being scored not mathematical averages and being fed a load of pretend figures.
The stats posted above aren’t meaningless though.
They confirm what everybody watched, that we were crap 90% of the tournament!
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Mush you dont need stats and 'expert' analysts and pundits to tell you that what you watched was boring or rubbish. You just need your own eyes.
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I absolutely agree.
But some people will say your been negative, we got to a final, etc etc
So it’s good to see it confirmed in the stats just how poor we’ve been.
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All these meaningless statistics are a big part of what is wrong with todays boring brand of football. As a spectator I want to see exciting games played by skilful footballers who are able to show their talent and I want to watch shots at goal rather than constant passing and keepy ball with real goals being scored not mathematical averages and being fed a load of pretend figures.
We're Spain boring?
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Gareth will get the blame as manager his tactics are questionable.
The pundits all said Foden must play inside 0 goals 0 assists in 7 games. He wouldn’t get in the Spain side. Kane should not have been playing I said it before was ridiculed on here slow ponderous. Saka last night was not good enough. Mainoo did not compete with Spains midfield Rice poor all Euros again not a patch on Spanish midfield players. Bellingham ran his blood to water.. Walker left the right side twice and they scored. Overall we were beat by a better side. With players who don’t really play for the top sides in Spain. Our players overrated by the pundits and supporters.
So I believe Gareth will leave the role. So we will see how we can improve. But the public and press have to realise these players are not the super stars they are made out and none would get in Spain side maybe John Stones
Your last sentence encapsulates the truth, we’ve kidded ourselves.
It doesn’t. Is that like saying none of the French or German side wouldn’t get in the Spanish side because they are better than them as well?
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Excellent article in the Graun ,
Worth a read .
Turning point: the England throw-in that encapsulated 58 years of hurt | Jonathan Liew https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/15/turning-point-england-kyle-walker-throw-in-euro-2024-final-spain?CMP=share_btn_url
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Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.
On my way back to England you clown.
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We were beaten by the better side and many of our players didn’t turn up. Foden, mainoo, saka, Kane, rice were terrific against Holland yet a few days later they don’t turn up in the same system in the same positions. That is down to them not the manager.
I was sat watching Southgate screaming at rice and Bellingham to get further up the pitch when it was 1-1 as they were both playing as centre halves but they either couldn’t or they didn’t think they should as they just sat there getting deeper and deeper but Southgate was screaming at them to get up.
Kane obviously wasn’t fit,
But we’ve got to another final this scenario is more of a be careful what you wish for scenario than one ive ever experienced before.
Big chance we go backwards with a new manager, big chance
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On tournament result only there’s a big chance we go backwards whoever is manager even Southgate.
For me him picking Kane when he’s not fit to the detriment of the team says he won’t win anything. No one is too big to be dropped. I was watching thinking if it’s 0-0 when Kane comes off we’ve a chance of doing it.
Got a lot of time for what he’s done but I just can’t get on board with that type of decision which just lacked bravery. Seems to be a thing Southgate struggles with
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We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.
I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.
Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.
Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.
Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.
Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.
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We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.
I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.
Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.
Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.
Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.
Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.
No we played the same formation as the Holland and Swiss games. Foden and Bellingham as number 10s
In the games u mention foden was stuck on the left wing,
To say he’s cost us in 4 tournaments disregarding how we got to the semis and the finals is beyond belief.
Just think about the state we were when he took over going from that to euros finals and World Cup semi finals is not him costing us
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We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.
I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.
Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.
Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.
Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.
Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.
No we played the same formation as the Holland and Swiss games. Foden and Bellingham as number 10s
In the games u mention foden was stuck on the left wing,
To say he’s cost us in 4 tournaments disregarding how we got to the semis and the finals is beyond belief.
Just think about the state we were when he took over going from that to euros finals and World Cup semi finals is not him costing us
Why are past failures an excuse for current failure?
And what do you like about this 3-7-0 formation and system?
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I absolutely agree.
But some people will say your been negative, we got to a final, etc etc
So it’s good to see it confirmed in the stats just how poor we’ve been.
Aye, some 'people' will still have their blinkers on.
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Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.
On my way back to England you clown.
Here come the petty insults.
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When so many, for so long, have shouted how the England squad is full of 'better' players than any other squad, then when that squad fails to deliver it's human nature to look for someone to blame. Self analysis is hard enough without adding in the tribal instincts of patriotism so re-assessing one's own previous views is something that rarely happens. A scapegoat is always, always, a far easier target.
BobG
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We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.
I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.
Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.
Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.
Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.
Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.
No we played the same formation as the Holland and Swiss games. Foden and Bellingham as number 10s
In the games u mention foden was stuck on the left wing,
To say he’s cost us in 4 tournaments disregarding how we got to the semis and the finals is beyond belief.
Just think about the state we were when he took over going from that to euros finals and World Cup semi finals is not him costing us
Why are past failures an excuse for current failure?
And what do you like about this 3-7-0 formation and system?
Not sure of your point!
So you’re completely disregarding the job he’s done in transforming the national team from what it was in 2016 to what it is now?
That’s fine if that’s what you want to do,
Are you also disregarding the job mccann has done in transforming donny just because he hasn’t won anything?
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He's done well for England but if we had a better manager in charge we would have at least 1 trophy in the bag. His limitations have shown in the big games when it's mattered.
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Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.
On my way back to England you clown.
Here come the petty insults.
I mean it’s not like he wasn’t provoked to respond there is it!
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We didn’t play the same system as against Holland though for some inexplicable reason. He reverted to the formation that failed earlier in the tournament. A back 4 with Walker constantly going missing at right back. And then because Foden didn’t work on the left in earlier games he tried sticking Bellingham there and guess what, it didn’t work. You could see how frustrated Bellingham was.
I just don’t understand the thinking behind the Southgate in game decisions. The frustration is at least with past England teams they’ve had a go. All tournament it’s felt like we just turn up and hope for a wonder goal. No plan offensively at all.
Why play Kane if you aren’t going to support him, we all know how Kane thrived at Spurs and at Bayern.
Why bother taking Anthony Gordon if you’re not going to have a left winger in the formation all tournament.
Why try bringing on Trippier and Gallagher with 5 minutes to go when we need a goal - obviously he was thinking let’s hang on for extra time and penalties.
Overall I like Southgate, he seems a nice man and you can’t say he isn’t passionate or patriotic, but every single time it matters he shows his lack of top level managerial experience and it’s cost us at 4 tournaments now.
No we played the same formation as the Holland and Swiss games. Foden and Bellingham as number 10s
In the games u mention foden was stuck on the left wing,
To say he’s cost us in 4 tournaments disregarding how we got to the semis and the finals is beyond belief.
Just think about the state we were when he took over going from that to euros finals and World Cup semi finals is not him costing us
Why are past failures an excuse for current failure?
And what do you like about this 3-7-0 formation and system?
Not sure of your point!
So you’re completely disregarding the job he’s done in transforming the national team from what it was in 2016 to what it is now?
That’s fine if that’s what you want to do,
Are you also disregarding the job mccann has done in transforming donny just because he hasn’t won anything?
No I'm not completely disregarding it.
I was behind Southgate and appreciative of the job he did up until the Euro 2021 final. There was then a clear pattern to be recognised. He should have been thanked for his work and let go. With his positive changes being used as a springboard.
But let’s be honest, it wasn’t just Southgate who oversaw the cultural change. After that Iceland defeat the FA took a root and branch approach to overhaul the infrastructure of the national team setup. Southgate was a cog in the wheel.
Look at the investment in to St George’s Park for example. In terms of coaching and philosophy there were some very clever and visionary people involved in overhauling the entire national team set up across all age ranges and the women’s team.
This started 8 years ago. A bit weird to mention McCann as he hasn’t been in charge of Rovers for 8 years. If we’re still in League 2 in 2031, I’ll obviously be a bit annoyed. If everyone at the club was like you we’d be saying “Danny Schofield is the right man to take us out of non-league”.
Spain:
2004 Euros - Group stage
2006 World Cup - Round of 16
2008 Euros - Winners
2010 World Cup - Winners
2012 Euros - Winners
France:
Euro 2012 - Quarter finals
World Cup 2014 - Quarter finals
Euro 2016 - Finalists
World Cup 2018 - Winners
Two national team examples of real and continued progression. No reason why we couldn’t have achieved something similar by the end of this 8 year stint. Our progression has gone stagnant and stale and ultimately there is still a losing mentality.
You didn’t answer my question about what you like about the system and formation.
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Absolute insanity how anyone can slag off southgate.
He's the best england manager since Ramsey.
It's all too easy to say we should be winning tournaments, but it isn't that simple. There are thousands of minute mitigating factors that affect it, its a game of very fine margins.
Southgate has consistently had england do well at tournaments, and if we stick with him, that's the best chance we have.
What he's done is incredible, he's turned england from a bunch of individuals, into a real team.
The way he's transformed the mentality is phenomenal.
It would be a HUGE step backwards if he left now.
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Southgate has resigned
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Thanks for making us believe again, Gareth. Go put your feet up for a bit, despite it all you've earned it.
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Thanks Gareth. A true gent, you got the fans believing. Some might not have agreed with your style of play, but did the players help.
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Really sorry to hear this. Gareth Southgate has rejuvenated the England set up, the most successful manager since Alf Ramsey and all he received was criticism by the media and those of little faith. Well done Gareth I don’t blame you at all for making this decision. I wish the next unfortunate every success, stand by to be shot at.
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History will look kindly on Southgate. The best and most successful England manager during my lifetime by far. How he's developed the national side and the under 21's since taking over both should not be underestimated.
To a lesser degree he reminds me of Bobby Robson. He was given torrents of abuse by England fans and the press whilst Manager and now he's seen as a God! Southgate has achieved much more that Robson did and in years to come his efforts for the England team will be fully recognised.
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Southgate has probably made the best decision for his own sanity, he's certainly had success but I can see why some are impatient. If his teams had played more attractive football and gone out early he probably would have been sacked long ago.
He can be proud of his record, the next manager as with the ones previous to GS will understand and know how difficult a job it is.
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How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
Are you for real?
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.
Have a Quick Look at our results under robson, educate yourself a bit before spouting rubbish
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How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
Slovenia and Slovakia didn't exist when Bobby Robson was England manager fella.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
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Well done Gareth for giving English football credibility again and getting us to two finals.
I don’t blame him for resigning, why would he want all that stick from some fans.
As for International football being harder in years gone by, sorry but I can’t accept that.
The quality of all teams has improved over the years and teams who used to get hammered most times they played are now much harder to beat.
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How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
Slovenia and Slovakia didn't exist when Bobby Robson was England manager fella.
That was..erm..my point.
International football was much harder in years gone by.
No England manager ever had such an easy route to a final.
If you can't be good be lucky
International football was much harder in years gone by! How do you work that one out? I used to go to a lot of internationals back then and a number of international teams were bordering on amateur. Just off the top of my head, I can remember England being booed off after playing Greece, Kuwait, Romania, Denmark, Australia, Tunisia & Norway who at the time all had some players who were part time.
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Cheers Gareth, onward we go. Although i am unsure Lee Carsley is the way FA ought to go ( if they go down the route of appointing from within).
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How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
Slovenia and Slovakia didn't exist when Bobby Robson was England manager fella.
That was..erm..my point.
International football was much harder in years gone by.
No England manager ever had such an easy route to a final.
If you can't be good be lucky
International football was easier years ago, the “ lesser” teams used to get regular thrashed 6,7,8 -0, I don’t mean San Marino and Gibraltar, teams like Luxembourg, Norway, Cyprus
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Thanks for making us believe again, Gareth. Go put your feet up for a bit, despite it all you've earned it.
He certainly has - was on a salary of over £5m a year..... so coining it in.
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Cheers Gareth, onward we go. Although i am unsure Lee Carsley is the way FA ought to go ( if they go down the route of appointing from within).
The Beeb already have some of the runners and riders in this article....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn0862v8gw2o
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Cheers Gareth, onward we go. Although i am unsure Lee Carsley is the way FA ought to go ( if they go down the route of appointing from within).
It’s worked for Spain & Argentina with De La Fuente & Scaloni so I’m not averse to it. Wonder if he’d want Gary McSheffrey on his coaching staff :lol:
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How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
How did Bobby Robson do against Slovakia and Slovenia?
Idiotic of the FA to give him a contract for the Euros before a ball was kicked in the World Cup finals.
Great preparation for the next World Cup.
Are you for real?
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.
Have a Quick Look at our results under robson, educate yourself a bit before spouting rubbish
Ah so all the ex international players who said Southgate shouldn't have stayed know less than you.
I think it was idiotic to give him a contract before a ball was kicked at the last World Cup.
Putting together a highlights package from the last few weeks?
Apt that Southgate has made a late change in hope of an improvement.
Plenty have said it’s time for a change, plenty have said they wanted him to stay.
But almost everyone I’ve listened to have praised how he’s transformed the national team.
Bobby robson was getting more criticism than Southgate during 86 and 90.
Drawing with Morocco and struggling against very poor Belgium, 1-0 v Egypt, drawing with Ireland, struggling against Cameroon.
Robson never got us to a final and got knighted Southgate will be looked back upon in 20 years as a manager that took us to the most successful period of our lifetimes.
The next manager is under massive pressure because by the looks of it the minimum requirement is to win a final
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It's the right time for him to go. Eight years in the job and been successful to a degree. Not lifted any silverware and the natives have been restless this last month.
A new voice and new ideas is what's needed to try and get the full potential out of this crop of young players.
Hopefully Harry Kane will also step.down from international football as he was nowhere near the levels required at international tournament football.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish the job & bring us a trophy.
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In our history we have only won one major trophy and been to three major finals.
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It's the right time for him to go. Eight years in the job and been successful to a degree. Not lifted any silverware and the natives have been restless this last month.
A new voice and new ideas is what's needed to try and get the full potential out of this crop of young players.
Hopefully Harry Kane will also step.down from international football as he was nowhere near the levels required at international tournament football.
Surely that’s down to him not being fit (for which Southgate, the medical staff and Kane himself are all culpable given how much he played). He’s just come off the back of a 40 goal season in the Bundesliga and is only 31, feels far too early to write him off.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
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It's the right time for him to go. Eight years in the job and been successful to a degree. Not lifted any silverware and the natives have been restless this last month.
A new voice and new ideas is what's needed to try and get the full potential out of this crop of young players.
Hopefully Harry Kane will also step.down from international football as he was nowhere near the levels required at international tournament football.
Surely that’s down to him not being fit (for which Southgate, the medical staff and Kane himself are all culpable given how much he played). He’s just come off the back of a 40 goal season in the Bundesliga and is only 31, feels far too early to write him off.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he missed the start of the season due to injury. If his performances in the Euros are now where he’s at he won’t play for Bayern
Can’t believe someone’s levels could drop so quickly from a 40 goal season without it been a injury
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He’s obviously not fit, he missed the end of the season. And wasn’t match fit.
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He’s obviously not fit, he missed the end of the season. And wasn’t match fit.
Isn’t that weak from Southgate to keep picking him though? Was clearly hurting the team as a whole despite scoring a few tap
Ins
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Definitely nothing wrong with tap ins!
Yes arguement could be there to not have played Kane but if you’re trying to get match fit the only thing to give you that is matches
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He looked less fit every match played.
I hope the next manager is brave enough to make the hard choices which benefit the team as a whole including dropping big names.
Gareth is given a hard time for not taking risks but starting a player who can’t move in a cup final is one I’d rather we don’t take in future.
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He’s definitely made brave choices,
Not selecting grealish, not playing foden in the last euros, playing Trent centre mid, playing maguire,
He’s made lots of early subs in this tournament!
Anyway he’s gone now,
The pressure on the next guy is going to be massive, a lot to live upto
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I was never his biggest fan but wouldn't disrespect the bloke.
Done a great job changing the environment around England, just couldn't make that final step to win summat.
He was in a no win situation in that final. Drop kane and lose he is at fault, play kane and lose he is at fault.
Ultimately the best team won the tournament. That's that.
Done his best, we move on, he moves on.
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100% easy in hindsight he made plenty of good decisions too and will rightly be remembered as the best since Ramsey.
We’re very close and the attitude/mentality of the players doesn’t seem to be the problem it was in the past now. Hopefully the next man takes up on a level.
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100% easy in hindsight he made plenty of good decisions too and will rightly be remembered as the best since Ramsey.
We’re very close and the attitude/mentality of the players doesn’t seem to be the problem it was in the past now. Hopefully the next man takes up on a level.
I get the feeling Bellingham believes in the hype about him. Very good player clearly, but too much walking about and throwing himself on the floor for my liking.
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Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.
On my way back to England you clown.
Here come the petty insults.
I mean it’s not like he wasn’t provoked to respond there is it!
And all the other times?
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
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What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
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Perfectly acceptable to think he’s left us in a better place AND think he’s wasted chances to win a trophy, especially Italy.
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It was a penalty shootout,
I just can’t fathom how we go from being absolutely shite in every tournament to losing on pens in a final and the manager instead of being praised for that gets slagged off
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It was a penalty shootout,
I just can’t fathom how we go from being absolutely shite in every tournament to losing on pens in a final and the manager instead of being praised for that gets slagged off
It shouldn’t have got to penalties.
We went 1-0 up against a crap Italy side and he shit himself.
It’s ok to disagree mate, not sure why you appear to take it so personal.
Hes done a good job. He also cost us a trophy. It is what it is.
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This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view
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This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view
Big team? Italy didn’t qualify for the World Cup before or after that Euros win.
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This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view
There’s a fair bit of over the top, undeserved criticism of Southgate and the team, both in this thread and elsewhere, but there’s a difference between that and rational, reasoned arguments about mistakes that have been made. It seems like you can’t distinguish between the two and any sort of criticism is shouted down with “nonsense”, “daft”, “clown” etc.
FWIW I think that Southgate has been an extremely successful manager for us and have an extraordinary amount of respect for him. I also think it was time for him to go, that he has made mistakes over his tenure and had a fair dose of fortune in that time that previous managers did not (easier draws, no red cards to key players etc). It is possible to have a view with some nuance.
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This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view
Big team? Italy didn’t qualify for the World Cup before or after that Euros win.
I know one of the narratives running on England is that we value great players over a great system, but that Italian squad was probably the most anonymous for many a year. Their main striker was that lad who Moyes bought for big money at West Ham and loaned him out within a year.
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This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view
Big team? Italy didn’t qualify for the World Cup before or after that Euros win.
Italy of course are one of the big names in world football. And in that tournament they were very good, we were a penalty kick away from beating them. In our first ever Euro final.
But the manager gets slagged off for it.
A lot of the people being negative about England are the same ones who are negative about Donny, pretty sure that’s not a coincidence!
End of the day Southgate is comfortably the second most successful manager of all time, so deserves respect rather than the bashing he’s getting from some quarters
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What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.
There you go going over the past again, my opinions, (& everyone's are 10 a penny), are regarding the here & now, over 8 years Gareth has taken us forward without doubt, but when push comes to shove he has failed to win anything, with performances going backwards to what they were. That's the hard reality & he made the right call to move on. That's the current reality, not what anyone has done in the past.
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Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.
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Hear hear!
BobG
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Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.
Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.
But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.
But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.
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Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.
Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.
But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.
But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.
We won 6 knockout games Martin between 1967 and 2016 that is terrible, yes we had good teams but they never performed anywhere near to the consistency Southgate’s teams have faired in his 4 tournaments.
We’d never reached a euros final and never reached any kind of final on foreign soil.
If in 2016 anyone would’ve suggested the next manager would take us to a World Cup semi final in two years time and then two consecutive euros finals you’d have had them taken away in a straight jacket.
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Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.
Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.
But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.
But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.
I agree with a lot of this (although some of it I do feel is a bit harsh), but think your recollection in bold is a bit muddled - Sven was sacked, not stepped down, and there was 10 years and 3 managers (McLaren, Capello, Hodgson) between him leaving and Southgate being appointed.
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Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.
Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.
But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.
But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.
I agree with a lot of this (although some of it I do feel is a bit harsh), but think your recollection in bold is a bit muddled - Sven was sacked, not stepped down, and there was 10 years and 3 managers (McLaren, Capello, Hodgson) between him leaving and Southgate being appointed.
Yes there's something missing from what I meant to write!!
The point I wanted to make is that other managers had a good win record too, SGE obviously (and the 5-1 in Munich will live with me forever!) and his team in Portugal in 2004 was well capable of winning that competition. But Capello and Hodgson's stats weren't that bad, they just couldn't deliver in competition format for all sorts of reasons, but generally because they all make the mistake of trying to shoehorn the best players into a single team.
I did mean to say when Hodgson stepped down!
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Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.
Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.
But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.
But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.
We won 6 knockout games Martin between 1967 and 2016 that is terrible, yes we had good teams but they never performed anywhere near to the consistency Southgate’s teams have faired in his 4 tournaments.
We’d never reached a euros final and never reached any kind of final on foreign soil.
If in 2016 anyone would’ve suggested the next manager would take us to a World Cup semi final in two years time and then two consecutive euros finals you’d have had them taken away in a straight jacket.
I made the point some weeks ago that competition formats changed over the years, the Euros especially, which makes a straight forward comparison difficult to do. However I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument, just that the England national team has not been as bad as people make out for 60 years.
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Maybe not when looking at ability, but in major tournament football it’s been pretty appalling for the 50 years between 1966 and Southgate’s appointment.
I think the only difference is we have an extra round, but we’ve been knocked out by some really Poor teams like Romania and Iceland and not even qualified for some of them.
Compare that to what we have now and it’s a dramatic shift
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Maybe not when looking at ability, but in major tournament football it’s been pretty appalling for the 50 years between 1966 and Southgate’s appointment.
I think the only difference is we have an extra round, but we’ve been knocked out by some really Poor teams like Romania and Iceland and not even qualified for some of them.
Compare that to what we have now and it’s a dramatic shift
No, you need to look again. The finals of the competition consisted of 4 teams until 1980 which then increased to 8. In 1984 they went from the group stages directly into the semi finals. In 1996 they went to 16 teams using a format we now recognise.
My point is that a straight forward comparison of knock out wins isn't possible if you use your start year as 1966.
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Very well said SM. Your observations and comments on past England teams/managers/performances are balanced and accurate.
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I understand that, but it just meant the quarter finals etc were played beforehand,
if you go from 1996 our tournament record looks even worse, nothing better than a quarter final in the 20 years before Southgate. And then two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments
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Was Southgate good?
Does he deserve all the plaudits?
Looking at the past if Rooney was this, if the FA did that? The team played nice football,
….Well we never even got to a final- end of
And if Declan puts that header in, yep IN A Final btw..
I’d give up Dickos
Jesus… well let’s see if in the next four tournaments beat the last four.
Very short England performance, (and results- be all and end all, btw) memories
All the best Gareth and thank you for 10 times the journey any one manager has given us since ‘66.
Wait till we get Lee Carsley ….
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What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.
But during his 8 years, with the tools required, has won nothing.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
-
What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.
But during his 8 years, with the tools required, has won nothing.
As I keep telling you, if you’re only
Measure of success is winning a trophy against the best players in the world where only one team can win anything every 2 years then you’re setting yourself up for misery and disappointment
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
-
What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.
But during his 8 years, with the tools required, has won nothing.
As I keep telling you, if you’re only
Measure of success is winning a trophy against the best players in the world where only one team can win anything every 2 years then you’re setting yourself up for misery and disappointment
As I keep telling you, there is no misery or dissapointment, as much as you would like to be, about England not winning a tournament. Gareth has done a great job, & left the post much better than when he came in, but he has failed to win a tournament in his 8 years. That's a fact, no matter how you want to sugar coat it by going back to compare other tournaments, players, managers etc. It means nothing. He was right to go, & hopefully we bring in someone who can win it for us, because Southgate couldn't.
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Ok, we’re never going to agree.
Just bonkers to me to keep saying he’s been a failure because we didn’t win anything even though he’s got us performing better than anyone ever has before in tournaments.
Bobby robson was knighted and never got us to a final, Terry venables couldn’t get us to a final on home turf.
Both these are looked back on fondly but both failed with much more conviction than Southgate did if we’re going by your logic!
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I understand that, but it just meant the quarter finals etc were played beforehand,
if you go from 1996 our tournament record looks even worse, nothing better than a quarter final in the 20 years before Southgate. And then two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments
No it doesn’t mean that, just do me a favour and read how the Euros were structured beforehand, there was no quarter finals!!
There were group games played during the regular season, and your positioning in the group decided whether you played in a summer knock out competition.
The point I’ve made, which I’m getting bored with now as you can’t understand the competition format, is that comparisons are not as easy to make as you seem to think they are.
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Ok, we’re never going to agree.
Just bonkers to me to keep saying he’s been a failure because we didn’t win anything even though he’s got us performing better than anyone ever has before in tournaments.
Bobby robson was knighted and never got us to a final, Terry venables couldn’t get us to a final on home turf.
Both these are looked back on fondly but both failed with much more conviction than Southgate did if we’re going by your logic!
Yet again, time after time you go over old tournaments & managers to support your view. 8 years, no trophies. There are no comparisons or formats that matter other than winning the tournament. That's the aim.
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
Wrong again, total supposition.
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I understand that, but it just meant the quarter finals etc were played beforehand,
if you go from 1996 our tournament record looks even worse, nothing better than a quarter final in the 20 years before Southgate. And then two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments
No it doesn’t mean that, just do me a favour and read how the Euros were structured beforehand, there was no quarter finals!!
There were group games played during the regular season, and your positioning in the group decided whether you played in a summer knock out competition.
The point I’ve made, which I’m getting bored with now as you can’t understand the competition format, is that comparisons are not as easy to make as you seem to think they are.
In 1976 the euros had a qualifying stage and the winners of those groups went into a quarter final.
The winners of those quarter finals then qualified for the final tournament.
So in essence it was the same thing but spread out over a period of time, anyhow even if you go from 1996 to Southgate’s start the performance of our national team with all the quality it had was a shambles
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Ok, we’re never going to agree.
Just bonkers to me to keep saying he’s been a failure because we didn’t win anything even though he’s got us performing better than anyone ever has before in tournaments.
Bobby robson was knighted and never got us to a final, Terry venables couldn’t get us to a final on home turf.
Both these are looked back on fondly but both failed with much more conviction than Southgate did if we’re going by your logic!
Yet again, time after time you go over old tournaments & managers to support your view. 8 years, no trophies. There are no comparisons or formats that matter other than winning the tournament. That's the aim.
Ok so just to clarify you also think venables and robson were failures too?
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
Wrong again, total supposition.
This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been taken apart by a good side.
No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
Wrong again, total supposition.
This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been taken apart by a good side.
No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”
You seem to have a problem with the words negativity & critique, it's not negative drivel, your play with words again when the opinion doesn't yours. that was my view on the game I had witnessed, not negativity, reality. It also had hd nothing to do with my views on our chances before the tournament started, so yes your wrong again with supposition, playing with words, & telling people what they are thinking without actually having a clue.
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Negative critique?
BobG
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So if our "failure" was all down to Southgate then I'm looking forward to winning the the next WC and Euros easily.
Nicked off X
-
Negative critique?
BobG
Not really, just my opinion on what I witnessed.
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
Wrong again, total supposition.
This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been taken apart by a good side.
No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”
You seem to have a problem with the words negativity & critique, it's not negative drivel, your play with words again when the opinion doesn't yours. that was my view on the game I had witnessed, not negativity, reality. It also had hd nothing to do with my views on our chances before the tournament started, so yes your wrong again with supposition, playing with words, & telling people what they are thinking without actually having a clue.
It’s constant negativity, even when we got to the final it’s negative, this dilutes your arguement if you can’t ever be positive when it’s required.
Anyhow you still haven’t answered the question, were robson and venables failures? And will the next manager be a failure unless he wins the next World Cup?
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And the next European Championship obviously. Don't forget that.
BobG
PS. Later. In fact the argument is clear. If England does not win every World Cup and every European Championship in perpetuity then we are failures.
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And then Bob, it might be decided that Southgate wasn't too bad?
I say this as someone who didn't watch any of the games not even an England game.
One evening in France the campsite bar, which surprisingly I didn't visit, was showing a France game on a big screen . Very few were watching, we could see them from our campsite pitch and when France scored late on all we heard was a quiet shout and a short round of very quiet applause. Perhaps the French weren't enjoying watching their National team either?
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do
Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought
The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together
Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.
If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.
Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.
Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.
Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.
Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here
Wrong again, total supposition.
This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been taken apart by a good side.
No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”
You seem to have a problem with the words negativity & critique, it's not negative drivel, your play with words again when the opinion doesn't yours. that was my view on the game I had witnessed, not negativity, reality. It also had hd nothing to do with my views on our chances before the tournament started, so yes your wrong again with supposition, playing with words, & telling people what they are thinking without actually having a clue.
It’s constant negativity, even when we got to the final it’s negative, this dilutes your arguement if you can’t ever be positive when it’s required.
Anyhow you still haven’t answered the question, were robson and venables failures? And will the next manager be a failure unless he wins the next World Cup?
I see your still having the problem separating the words negative & actual, if you read through the threads instead of choosing one you would find when we play well the oponion said so. Your argument lost any credence with me when you started making things up, only 2 things it could have been, fact, or made up in your head. You also are still banging on about previous managers, I don't care, it's in the past, gone. I didn't imply either we should win the world cup lots of circumstances, new manager, playing sides who are used to playing in a climate we are unaccustom to etc. In my opinion though if the next manager doesn't win a trophy in 8 years with very good players, yes, it will be failure.
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If you’re being negative before the tournament has begun if you don’t acknowledge any positive when we’ve won games, played well in games reached a final. Continued the negativity even when we’re in a final.
Your only argument being we haven’t won anything so it’s a failure, it’s absolute nonsense.
The manager taking over now has taken over a squad that’s reached two finals in succession, Southgate took over a disaster of a squad. So to give them both the same remit for failure is just garbage.
It’s like someone taking over Arsenal and someone taking over Donny and saying whichever one doesn’t win the premier league in the next 8 years then they’re a failure
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You’ll find the following podcast does a much better analysis of Gareth Southgate’s reign as England manager than we’re capable of. And they also rank previous England managers.
As always, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper do an excellent job, well worth a listen;
https://shows.acast.com/it-was-what-it-was/episodes/gareth-southgates-england-legacy
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If you’re being negative before the tournament has begun if you don’t acknowledge any positive when we’ve won games, played well in games reached a final. Continued the negativity even when we’re in a final.
Your only argument being we haven’t won anything so it’s a failure, it’s absolute nonsense.
The manager taking over now has taken over a squad that’s reached two finals in succession, Southgate took over a disaster of a squad. So to give them both the same remit for failure is just garbage.
It’s like someone taking over Arsenal and someone taking over Donny and saying whichever one doesn’t win the premier league in the next 8 years then they’re a failure
Your'e still not getting this are you. You akeep using the the 'negative' word when not agreeing with your opinion, it's not negative, it's calling it how you see it, it's a persons critique on what he's witnessed, & how the manager has done in his tenure.
It's not a 'nonsence' argument that he hasn't won anything in 8 years, it's factual, he hasn't. It's not 'garbage' if the next manager doesn't win anything in the next 8 years, it will be failure. It's not 'garbage' for both managers to have the same remit to go & attempt to win a tournament, that will be their job.
Nobody is disputing what Southgate has done or left behind, he's done a great job & will be a hard act to follow, but ultimately, has failed in 8 years to win us a tournament. As for your last paragraph, totally baffling.
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Of course it’s negative.
We get to the final for the first time ever and you’re slagging off the manager. That is baffling
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He got to 2 finals with some of the best squads England have ever assembled. This was down to the FA changing the whole set up and the massive improvement in young English players.
If he’d got to 2 finals with Scott Parker, Danny Rose, Glenn Johnson, Gary Cahill, Darren Bent etc, everyone would rightly be praising him as a miracle worker.
But you have to take in to account the resources available to the manager when judging his performance.
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You’ve been brain washed by the masses.
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https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/gareth-southgate-right-time-to-leave-england-job-km6sm8drw
A fair and balanced take, albeit potentially uncomfortable reading for the armchair experts that new how to do his job better.
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Can somebody make the pay wall go away? Or copy and paste?
Cheers!
BobG
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Can somebody make the pay wall go away? Or copy and paste?
Cheers!
BobG
The statement announcing the end was typical. Well written (because he actually wrote it) and classy. It was generous to the players and backroom staff, especially his assistant, Steve Holland. Gareth Southgate also talked about his devotion to England, the country and the team. He was the kid standing in front of the mirror wearing his Bryan Robson England replica kit. He will be the grandad taking his grandchildren to England games.
I inclined to the view that it was the right time, but would never have said that to him. There were enough folk telling him what to do; pub experts managing from their perches on the high stool, convinced about everything, most of all their own righteousness. They learnt to say “low block”, “double pivot”, “false nine” and if only Southgate had had the wisdom to consult them.
Colleagues, emboldened by the same sense of knowing, praised Southgate for creating a good team culture and improving performances but also said that tactically he was inept. Consider that these are people who, for the most part, have never managed a Sunday league team and certainly never managed a team of professionals. They have 1 per cent of the information that he had but pontificated with 100 per cent certainty, and the security of never needing to put their deep understanding to the test.
Southgate became the most successful men’s manager since Alf Ramsey but after four major tournaments, decided he should not try a fifth
Southgate became the most successful men’s manager since Alf Ramsey but after four major tournaments, decided he should not try a fifth.
I have known Southgate since his playing days at Aston Villa and Middlesbrough, and even then he obsessed about tactics and the way teams set up. If you truly believe it was all about the team shape or the timing of the substitutions, ask yourself why when England did play well in the first halves against Switzerland and the Netherlands, they wilted in the second periods? It is not rocket science.
We’ve spoken a lot over the years, although not about the reasons for his resignation. So file the following under “educated guesswork”.
Southgate is both self-deprecating and realistic. He has the ability to step outside himself and see with detachment situations in which he’s emotionally involved. That voice would have told him he had four chances to get England over the line at finals. Four is more than most get and while his record might have entitled him to another, and the FA was convinced he should continue, he disagreed.
Of even greater weight would have been his fear that had he stayed, opposition to his presence would have grown. He loved his eight years of managing England, building relationships with players for whom he still has huge respect. Crushing disappointment came with the job. He would have expected that. The only disagreeable times came in those moments when he felt that a sizeable minority of England fans just didn’t want him as the team’s manager.
Southgate would not have wanted fan discontent with him to affect the players he has nurtured.
Two stand out. That May evening at Molineux last year when Hungary thrashed an understrength England side 4-0 and some in the crowd sang, “You don’t know what you’re doing.” He was asked about the discontent. “Football is emotional,” he said. “People pay to come and watch. They’re going to give an opinion. The team weren’t able to deliver tonight, [that is] my responsibility. If the flak comes my way then I have to deal with that. It’s not realistic to have had the ride I’ve had for five years and not have bad nights, difficult nights.”
That was him. Always intelligent. Never defensive. Inside, it hurt. Not just the personal nature of the criticism but the sense that if he became a divisive figure, that would make it harder for the players. Now it takes a particular kind of manager to say “that’s not my problem”, but Southgate is not that man. When England fans turn against the manager, that affects the players, makes it harder for them to relax and play their best.
He saw it again after the reaction to the scoreless draw against Slovenia and he had no wish to see it in the future. There was only one way to ensure he wouldn’t.
I’m guessing too that his family would have been a factor in the decision. When he returned from Qatar after the 2022 World Cup, Southgate discussed with his wife, Alison, and their two grown-up children the question of whether he should stay or go. They surprised him with their enthusiasm for his remaining in the job. They reassured they were coping just fine with having him in one of the most contentious jobs in the lands.
I don’t know, but it would be a surprise if the family message was not more nuanced after the experience in Germany. What wife and kids are going to feel OK seeing England fans chuck beer at their loved one, when they know what he has given to the team over the past eight years? Seeing that grim episode play out, I don’t imagine I was the only one thinking England didn’t deserve their high-quality manager.
Some fans showed their dismay after the 0-0 draw with Slovenia by throwing drinks at Southgate and his players, confident they could have done better
Some fans showed their dismay after the 0-0 draw with Slovenia by throwing drinks at Southgate and his players, confident they could have done better
RYAN PIERSE – UEFA/UEFA VIA GETTY IMAGES
Before you now open the door to that chamber in your brain where all the tactical insights are stored, consider how England performed at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. Iran, USA, Wales, Senegal and France; five games and four excellent performances. No one complained then about the manager’s cautious approach, or the way the team were set up or or the paucity of “shots on target”, or the failure to bring on replacements earlier.
That tournament was played in November and December, at a time of year when England’s players were fit and fresh. They weren’t at the end of a gruelling Premier League season. Do you recall what Rodri did after Manchester City’s 3-3 draw in a Champions League semi-final at the Bernabéu Stadium in April? He said he was tired and needed a rest, that ideally he wouldn’t play against Luton Town in the next game.
Rodri had played a lot, but not as many minutes as Phil Foden at that point last season. Pep Guardiola listened. Rodri didn’t play against Luton. Have you ever heard an England player publicly tell his club manager that he needed to be rested? Me neither. I remember Southgate saying after Russia six years ago that England’s players needed to take responsibility for their physical conditioning to ensure they weren’t fatigued when turning up for England duty. You could say English players are too honest, too willing to play every game. That may be true, but it’s hurt the national team.
As for Southgate himself, he will be fine. He is an excellent manager now waiting for his next opportunity.
[David Walsh - The Sunday Times (strange that the paywall didn’t apply when reading via X)]
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Of course it’s negative.
We get to the final for the first time ever and you’re slagging off the manager. That is baffling
You are making things up again which you keep doing, where did I 'slag' the manager off, your little play on words again to try & strengthen your argument. So it's not negative or slagging off is it really, it's just statement of fact.
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Thank you Jonathan. An illuminating read. And yes. All of us, each and every one, pontificate sometimes about things we are neither qualified nor informed enough to judge - politics is often a good example. The predilection of C2DE's to make a lot of noise in the process and to display their lack of wisdom by throwing beer over the man who has given them more highlights in 8 years than any predecesor managed over the previous 50 years demonstrates just how ill informed they are about England's position in the world.
Cheers
BobG
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He got to 2 finals with some of the best squads England have ever assembled. This was down to the FA changing the whole set up and the massive improvement in young English players.
If he’d got to 2 finals with Scott Parker, Danny Rose, Glenn Johnson, Gary Cahill, Darren Bent etc, everyone would rightly be praising him as a miracle worker.
But you have to take in to account the resources available to the manager when judging his performance.
Is this squad better than
Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Cole, lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney?
No it isn’t and that squad never got past a quarter final.
To suggest we only got to a final because he had a good squad is a load of rubbish.
He transformed the whole atmosphere of the squad, made people want to play, made them relaxed, made it more like a club.
The fact we have such a squad with young talent is down to him, plenty of managers would t have brought these kids through as quickly and as smoothly as he has
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Thank you Jonathan. An illuminating read. And yes. All of us, each and every one, pontificate sometimes about things we are neither qualified nor informed enough to judge - politics is often a good example. The predilection of C2DE's to make a lot of noise in the process and to display their lack of wisdom by throwing beer over the man who has given them more highlights in 8 years than any predecesor managed over the previous 50 years demonstrates just how ill informed they are about England's position in the world.
Cheers
BobG
With respect sir, you have no idea about the social class of any of those involved. Stereotypes are not an objective measure to assess.
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He got to 2 finals with some of the best squads England have ever assembled. This was down to the FA changing the whole set up and the massive improvement in young English players.
If he’d got to 2 finals with Scott Parker, Danny Rose, Glenn Johnson, Gary Cahill, Darren Bent etc, everyone would rightly be praising him as a miracle worker.
But you have to take in to account the resources available to the manager when judging his performance.
Is this squad better than
Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Cole, lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney?
No it isn’t and that squad never got past a quarter final.
To suggest we only got to a final because he had a good squad is a load of rubbish.
He transformed the whole atmosphere of the squad, made people want to play, made them relaxed, made it more like a club.
The fact we have such a squad with young talent is down to him, plenty of managers would t have brought these kids through as quickly and as smoothly as he has
The fact we have such excellent youth coming up through the system is down to the elite level training the FA introduced over 20 years ago and premier league clubs, based on the dutch total football model, remember it takes many years for a 5 year old to become an elite footballer its not done overnight or in 8 years, you cannot even manage a kids team on a Sunday now without doing your FA level 1 coaching badge, i have been to Leicester City's youth set up, multi million pound facility, top level coaches and it was for 8 year olds when i went, the time and money spent on developing talented youngsters in this country is unbelievable, that is why the amount of talent coming through the system is so good and its only going to get better as the premier league is the richest league in the world
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He got to 2 finals with some of the best squads England have ever assembled. This was down to the FA changing the whole set up and the massive improvement in young English players.
If he’d got to 2 finals with Scott Parker, Danny Rose, Glenn Johnson, Gary Cahill, Darren Bent etc, everyone would rightly be praising him as a miracle worker.
But you have to take in to account the resources available to the manager when judging his performance.
Is this squad better than
Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Cole, lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney?
No it isn’t and that squad never got past a quarter final.
To suggest we only got to a final because he had a good squad is a load of rubbish.
He transformed the whole atmosphere of the squad, made people want to play, made them relaxed, made it more like a club.
The fact we have such a squad with young talent is down to him, plenty of managers would t have brought these kids through as quickly and as smoothly as he has
I've said this before, I do sympathise with your position, but to completely ignore the significant contribution that St Georges Park has played and the incredible investment in the Elite Player Performance Plan is more than an oversight. GS has done well, but without any of the two items I've mentioned he would have performed as badly as everybody else.
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He got to 2 finals with some of the best squads England have ever assembled. This was down to the FA changing the whole set up and the massive improvement in young English players.
If he’d got to 2 finals with Scott Parker, Danny Rose, Glenn Johnson, Gary Cahill, Darren Bent etc, everyone would rightly be praising him as a miracle worker.
But you have to take in to account the resources available to the manager when judging his performance.
Is this squad better than
Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Cole, lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney?
No it isn’t and that squad never got past a quarter final.
To suggest we only got to a final because he had a good squad is a load of rubbish.
He transformed the whole atmosphere of the squad, made people want to play, made them relaxed, made it more like a club.
The fact we have such a squad with young talent is down to him, plenty of managers would t have brought these kids through as quickly and as smoothly as he has
I've said this before, I do sympathise with your position, but to completely ignore the significant contribution that St Georges Park has played and the incredible investment in the Elite Player Performance Plan is more than an oversight. GS has done well, but without any of the two items I've mentioned he would have performed as badly as everybody else.
I’m not sure I’ve ignored anything.
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Well this is absolutely miles better from England.
I wonder why?
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It does look good but Ireland are a poor side.
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Well this is absolutely miles better from England.
I wonder why?
It’s Ireland,
Come back to me after a major tournament
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We're playing a championship side basically.
Good to see Grealish back
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Ireland are no worse than Slovakia and Slovenia and we were horrendous in both those games.
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Other than they both qualified for Euro 2024 and Ireland didn’t.
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Ok *aren’t much worse
The point I’m making is that the team selection and patterns of play are miles better. The absence of that in the euros was not because we were playing Slovenia and Slovakia instead of Ireland.
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Ok *aren’t much worse
The point I’m making is that the team selection and patterns of play are miles better. The absence of that in the euros was not because we were playing Slovenia and Slovakia instead of Ireland.
People will say the team selection is miles better but if Southgate had stayed on and picked Maguire and Grealish in his first game there would have been uproar.
I say this as someone who thought it was time for Southgate to step aside as well.
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Well this is absolutely miles better from England.
I wonder why?
You’re watching a different game to me my friend.
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Great to see some attacking football. And nobody gives a stuff about whether he sang the anthem or not, except the gutter press who can't help but try and put down an England manager
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Ireland are no worse than Slovakia and Slovenia and we were horrendous in both those games.
What about all the games like wining 3-1 in Scotland, beating Bosnia 3-0, beating Malta 4-0,
All happened recently
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Stopped watching but from what I saw it was better.
But is that because we are better or Ireland just don’t know what they are doing. Too early to tell but I’m not against giving Carsley the job. Makes sense to keep the progression of coaches at international level imo
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Now now, go easy on us Irish!
First game under new management for us too. Ireland v England is like Man City v Ipswich. I would have taken 0-2 after twenty minutes. Kelleher is a great keeper who has wasted his career at Liverpool.
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Great to see some attacking football. And nobody gives a stuff about whether he sang the anthem or not, except the gutter press who can't help but try and put down an England manager
I do.
I’m not gutter press, I’ve served my country and if you don’t like the freedom that you should enjoy clear off over the channel, do an exchange with someone who would appreciate our democracy.
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Democracy? Really???
BobG
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Great to see some attacking football. And nobody gives a stuff about whether he sang the anthem or not, except the gutter press who can't help but try and put down an England manager
I do.
I’m not gutter press, I’ve served my country and if you don’t like the freedom that you should enjoy clear off over the channel, do an exchange with someone who would appreciate our democracy.
Should Klopp sing the anthem if he gets the job?. Either way most ordinary fans couldn't care less. Gareth sang it a lot and won.... :whistle:
No relationship between serving your country and expecting an Irish man to sing the anthem against Ireland
Who would want the England job if the press try their hardest to put down a temp on the morning of his first match :suicide:
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I do.
I’m not gutter press, I’ve served my country and if you don’t like the freedom that you should enjoy clear off over the channel, do an exchange with someone who would appreciate our democracy.
The sort of democracy that allows you to choose whether to sing the national anthem or not?
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Great to see some attacking football. And nobody gives a stuff about whether he sang the anthem or not, except the gutter press who can't help but try and put down an England manager
I do.
I’m not gutter press, I’ve served my country and if you don’t like the freedom that you should enjoy clear off over the channel, do an exchange with someone who would appreciate our democracy.
Should Klopp sing the anthem if he gets the job?. Either way most ordinary fans couldn't care less. Gareth sang it a lot and won.... :whistle:
No relationship between serving your country and expecting an Irish man to sing the anthem against Ireland
Who would want the England job if the press try their hardest to put down a temp on the morning of his first match :suicide:
An Irishman ? Sorry I didn’t realise that they’ve moved Birmingham to Ireland.
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Great to see some attacking football. And nobody gives a stuff about whether he sang the anthem or not, except the gutter press who can't help but try and put down an England manager
I do.
I’m not gutter press, I’ve served my country and if you don’t like the freedom that you should enjoy clear off over the channel, do an exchange with someone who would appreciate our democracy.
Should Klopp sing the anthem if he gets the job?. Either way most ordinary fans couldn't care less. Gareth sang it a lot and won.... :whistle:
No relationship between serving your country and expecting an Irish man to sing the anthem against Ireland
Who would want the England job if the press try their hardest to put down a temp on the morning of his first match :suicide:
An Irishman ? Sorry I didn’t realise that they’ve moved Birmingham to Ireland.
I think it was about the same time they moved Jamaica to the UK so John Barnes could be picked for England.
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Well that last night was another breath of fresh air. Yes playing against a poor side but absolutely dominating and playing attractively.
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Yes, I thought so too. Much more intent, although the risk is better teams might have made more of their counter attacks against us.
There was a good mix of old and new on show and thankfully we still have Kane who can put his foot through the ball. There's a danger it could go too tippy tippy, constantly recycling the ball, but there was enough penetrative passes we didn't take advantage of.
It just highlights to me we need to search for a Kane replacement as we need that striker who will separate us from the rest of the international teams who play a similar possession based style. The beauty of both his goals was the simplicity of early passes and bang!
There was alot to like, particularly Angel Gomes, who was the main conductor of the orchestra. Hard to spot a weakness in his game, he has a bit of everything.
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We were much better, definitely a step up from Southgate, but I'm worried that dominating lower teams will be enough to persuade the FA to stick with Carsley. Surely it's time to push the boat out and have a proper recruitment plan to bring in a decent top level manager. It's easy to plan a win against TLO Ireland and Finland, we need a manager who can beat Italy or Spain in a final.
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Which top level manager/s do you have in mind?
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We were much better, definitely a step up from Southgate, but I'm worried that dominating lower teams will be enough to persuade the FA to stick with Carsley. Surely it's time to push the boat out and have a proper recruitment plan to bring in a decent top level manager. It's easy to plan a win against TLO Ireland and Finland, we need a manager who can beat Italy or Spain in a final.
Other than Pep and Jurgen, who are you thinking of?
Personally, I don't think a big name manager is necessary the answer. Gareth wasn't far off the answer as there's so much that goes into building a squad to get to the point of reaching the final stages of tournaments, then we get to the tip of the iceberg, which is just that bit more tactical nouse and bravery to get us over the line. We don't know that Carsley hasn't got that but we know already he can bring in the right players from the pool of talent he's overseen for years to play a more positive style of football. A top foreign manager won't have that depth of knowledge of the talent pool or necessarily tuned in to the English psyche.
There are pros and cons. What we might gain from a 'top level manager' having the tactical experience of winning big games, we might lose in other areas. Capello for example turned out far from ideal.
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Spain just won the Euros with a squad that isn't any better than ours under a manager who has a remarkably similar profile to Carsley. This idea you need a "proven" manager who's used to league football is nonsense - for international football you need a good coach who can get his ideas onto the pitch in a very short time. Carsley's advantage is that he knows a lot of the players from his time in the youth setup, so many of our big players at the next tournament will already know how he wants them to play.
It's his job to lose now I think.
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Maybe not a 'top manager' or 'big name', but maybe someone with some experience of top flight management, maybe some experience in the Champions League, of having worked with and managed against some top level players. I personally think Carsley is a huge gamble and wholly underwhelming for a team that should be pushing for major honours, this is his first first-team management job. Remember Danny Schofield anyone?
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There is a vast difference in managing what is effectively part time as England manager to a league manager working with players for 11 months every season. Could a Pep or a Klopp do the England job to the level they do/did at league level? Remember they wouldn't have the pool and quality of foreign players such managers have day in day out
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I agree Raven, it's probably not a Pep / Mourinho type person, I just think there's probably some middle ground of a more experience manager who'll have a few more tricks up his sleeve for managing and managing against top level players than a complete newbie.
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I also think it's Carsleys to lose and I don't think I'd be underwhelmed for the reasons others have said about the difference between club and country.
I was thinking while watching it, Bellingham would not be walking in to that team. He'd have to show he's more of a team player, although I think there's room for a bit of a maverick at international level, someone who takes risks and is a bit different. For me Alexander Arnold is a bit maverick as he plays some off the cuff football being a bit unpredictable. Then there's Grealish of course who I think played well last night definitely not being too greedy.
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Kane must have spent more time in the oppositions penalty area last night than he did in all of the euros and surprise surprise he looks the goal scoring machine we knew he was, the shape is now much better and the side looks much more balanced
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I hope Carsley gets the job and it works out, but it’s way, way too early to be comparing him favourably to Southgate. We have played two poor teams in friendlies in all but name. Greece beat Ireland with the same scoreline as England’s.
I won’t be making much of a judgment until we play good teams in meaningful games.
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Kane must have spent more time in the oppositions penalty area last night than he did in all of the euros and surprise surprise he looks the goal scoring machine we knew he was, the shape is now much better and the side looks much more balanced
He was playing against far better teams than Finland in the euros.
Last year we played a similar level team to Finland in north Macedonia and won 7-0.
A bit of perspective needed, if we were 0-0 at half time against Finland under Southgate everyone would be going mad.
Could easily have been losing at half time
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I think one observation that was apparent straight away was the use of round pegs in round holes.
Its always been a bugbear of mine that an international manager would attempt to play players who week in week out play in a particular manner to then ask them to come into the side and play completely different or in a completely different position.
When you have a player like Alexander-Arnold who is a right back but with a vision and a competency to play are certain way then its different , as this could well benefit you , just as it did last night. The previous manager was very guilty of putting square pegs in round holes and then doubling down on it when being challenged, much to the annoyance of everyone outside the group.
If the current temp can build on what he's achieved against what were two sides with very little quality then he deserves to be given a shot. What i don't want to see is that he then reverts to the mean just like Southgate did, promising to play form players and then choosing to stick with out of form favourites and played in the wrong positions too boot.
We have some very good players who are screaming out to be allowed to express themselves, playing to their strengths and being allowed to progress into a genuine world leading side.
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Well if last night showed anything it was that Southgate was right all along regarding not just throwing all the best players onto the pitch. It also showed how important Kane is
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Last night was pitiful with at the best Sunday league defending
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I think what last night showed was that going from one underqualified inexperienced manager to another is a mistake and that the FA recruitment team need to look slightly further afield than their junior sides.
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I think what last night showed was that going from one underqualified inexperienced manager to another is a mistake and that the FA recruitment team need to look slightly further afield than their junior sides.
So who do you want ?
Why that manager ?
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I’d have gone for Pochettino but that ship has sailed whilst we go through a Roverseque process
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Well if last night showed anything it was that Southgate was right all along regarding not just throwing all the best players onto the pitch. It also showed how important Kane is
You can’t really say how important Kane is when we never changed like for like. The normal formation and 70+ minutes for Watkins/Solanke and it could have been a completely different game.
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Gareth southgate is a perfect example of "you don't know what you've got til its gone "
Best england manager since Ramsey
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England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.
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Being reported that Thomas Tuchel is in talks with FA about the England job.
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England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.
Disagree, and the evidence is there over several tournaments.
It's just a shame fans who are hard of thinking never appreciated him. Even more bizarre now he's gone.
He simply was an all time great England manager.
The way he turned round the national side from the embarrassing defeat against Iceland, and turned england into genuine contenders is phenomenal.
He was a hairs breadth from winning 2 tournaments.
The best we can hope for now is last 16 or quarter final finishes .
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England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.
Disagree, and the evidence is there over several tournaments.
It's just a shame fans who are hard of thinking never appreciated him. Even more bizarre now he's gone.
He simply was an all time great England manager.
The way he turned round the national side from the embarrassing defeat against Iceland, and turned england into genuine contenders is phenomenal.
He was a hairs breadth from winning 2 tournaments.
The best we can hope for now is last 16 or quarter final finishes .
I don't disagree that he turned us round and also brought some of the younger players through. Doesn't help that the press over hype our players but you do have to question could he have done better with the talent at his disposal? Also managed to get us relegated in the Nations league.
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Being reported that Thomas Tuchel is in talks with FA about the England job.
Tuchel has been very successful at time but it is noticeable his last four jobs he has kept for respectively, 2 years, 2 years, 1 year and 1 year. He could have been unlucky with those clubs a few times but four times in a row is perhaps not standard for a manager of his standing.
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People will look back in years to come and hail the Southgate era.
A World Cup semi, and two euros finals is nothing like what we’ve ever achieved previously under any manager.
Nobody cares about the nations league
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But won nothing. Maybe we should have had another 5, 10, 15 years for him to win nothing, it was time to move on.
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Question. It might dound like it's a daft one, but for me at least, it isn't.
Why is the measure of success winning a competition?
BobG
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England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.
Disagree, and the evidence is there over several tournaments.
It's just a shame fans who are hard of thinking never appreciated him. Even more bizarre now he's gone.
He simply was an all time great England manager.
The way he turned round the national side from the embarrassing defeat against Iceland, and turned england into genuine contenders is phenomenal.
He was a hairs breadth from winning 2 tournaments.
The best we can hope for now is last 16 or quarter final finishes .
I don't disagree that he turned us round and also brought some of the younger players through. Doesn't help that the press over hype our players but you do have to question could he have done better with the talent at his disposal? Also managed to get us relegated in the Nations league.
Could have have done better ?
Possibly, but it's a game of fine margins , and he came very very close.
I highly doubt the next manager will come as close as southgate did.
If we beat Spain 1-0, the usual muppets would have just said it should have been 2-0.
Alot of the critics don't understand the difference between league and tournament football. It's a completely different animal
He absolutely didn't deserve the criticism he got, and needs a hel of alot of respect putting on his name.
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But won nothing. Maybe we should have had another 5, 10, 15 years for him to win nothing, it was time to move on.
Never won anything no, but there’s one tournament every two years and he’s been in charge for 4 of those, and got to two finals and a semi final.
You’ve got to compare with what went before him to discuss whether he was successful or not,
The side he took over was a shambles and he’s taken us from being knocked out in the first knockout stage to two finals.
He’s definitely been a success regardless of whether we’ve won anything
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The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.
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The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.
Couldn't agree more
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It is a real question as to how we have such a bare trophy cabinet in the last century compared to totally comparable nations such as Spain, Italy, France and Germany. Similar populations, similar success in European club football, similar wealth as nations. We are surely the worst performer in terms of trophies of that group. Something is culturally and systemically wrong, for which Southgate is only one tiny element. Over the decades we have just not been able to compete at the very, very highest level.
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The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.
Christ, the reason we got within a hairs breadth was due to southgate.
The longer time goes on, the more people will realise just how good he was for England.
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The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.
This is absolute nonsense on so many levels
One were a small nation in comparison to most others,
Comparing us to Germany is also daft theyve won 7 major tournaments we’ve won 1 ever. So yes of course they wouldn’t be happy with a couple of finals, you put semi finals to help prove your point but it’s actually 2 finals.
We’d never even reached a euros final ever so to suggest reaching a final twice isn’t a success is crazy!
We got to those finals because of Southgate, we might have lost them because of him, who knows if we’d won a penalty shootout with another manager , nobody knows.
But the fact is he’s got doing miles better in tournaments than we’ve ever done before and consistently
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It is a real question as to how we have such a bare trophy cabinet in the last century compared to totally comparable nations such as Spain, Italy, France and Germany. Similar populations, similar success in European club football, similar wealth as nations. We are surely the worst performer in terms of trophies of that group. Something is culturally and systemically wrong, for which Southgate is only one tiny element. Over the decades we have just not been able to compete at the very, very highest level.
But during his spell in charge he did out perform some of those teams. So he’s definitely has nothing to do with how poorly we’ve compared over decades and decades.
He’s the one manager that had us competing against them
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The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.
This is absolute nonsense on so many levels
One were a small nation in comparison to most others,
Comparing us to Germany is also daft theyve won 7 major tournaments we’ve won 1 ever. So yes of course they wouldn’t be happy with a couple of finals, you put semi finals to help prove your point but it’s actually 2 finals.
We’d never even reached a euros final ever so to suggest reaching a final twice isn’t a success is crazy!
We got to those finals because of Southgate, we might have lost them because of him, who knows if we’d won a penalty shootout with another manager , nobody knows.
But the fact is he’s got doing miles better in tournaments than we’ve ever done before and consistently
But isn’t the issue that we should be competing with similar size nations?
Either way you can’t argue with Southgate’s record. BUT he’s had extremely favorable draws in EVERY tournament he’s been in charge of, with the only exception being France in 2022. And guess what, we lost. In tournament football, I don’t recall us ever beating a nation where it was expected to be in the balance.
My final point is probably a bit controversial, but international football and the various teams I are nowhere near as strong as they was 20/30 years ago.
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in 20 years time nobody will remember Southgate's time as England manager. He won nothing, the same as every other England manager other than Sir Alf Ramsay.
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But won nothing. Maybe we should have had another 5, 10, 15 years for him to win nothing, it was time to move on.
Never won anything no, but there’s one tournament every two years and he’s been in charge for 4 of those, and got to two finals and a semi final.
You’ve got to compare with what went before him to discuss whether he was successful or not,
The side he took over was a shambles and he’s taken us from being knocked out in the first knockout stage to two finals.
He’s definitely been a success regardless of whether we’ve won anything
He did very well as England manager & improved the squad, he came close, but ultimately failed to win a competition, which would have been his remit otherwise what's the point. Good manager, but ultimately failed, same as those before him.
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The measure of success for a nation of our size is actual success. Are Germany fans on their forums slapping themselves on the back for a couple of semi finals? We've come close, but the reason we didn't get over the line each time was that Southgate lacked the bravery and expertise to win the biggest game. We need a step up in mindset and a step up in manager, not another junior manager who's come through the ranks and will just nod and smile for the FA.
This is absolute nonsense on so many levels
One were a small nation in comparison to most others,
Comparing us to Germany is also daft theyve won 7 major tournaments we’ve won 1 ever. So yes of course they wouldn’t be happy with a couple of finals, you put semi finals to help prove your point but it’s actually 2 finals.
We’d never even reached a euros final ever so to suggest reaching a final twice isn’t a success is crazy!
We got to those finals because of Southgate, we might have lost them because of him, who knows if we’d won a penalty shootout with another manager , nobody knows.
But the fact is he’s got doing miles better in tournaments than we’ve ever done before and consistently
But isn’t the issue that we should be competing with similar size nations?
Either way you can’t argue with Southgate’s record. BUT he’s had extremely favorable draws in EVERY tournament he’s been in charge of, with the only exception being France in 2022. And guess what, we lost. In tournament football, I don’t recall us ever beating a nation where it was expected to be in the balance.
My final point is probably a bit controversial, but international football and the various teams I are nowhere near as strong as they was 20/30 years ago.
Yes we should but he’s the only manager that’s been able to get us competing with them.
The old easy draw comment, when we play and beat the big nations it’s always because it’s the worst team they’ve ever had, we beat Germany in Euro 2020 and we beat Holland this year. Also beat Croatia in 2020 who got to the final of the previous World Cup.
The draw is irrelevent, nobody mentions the Portugal draw when they won the euros or the fact they never won a match to get to the final.
The fact is Southgate has taken us up quite a few levels, the next man has to do that again
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Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.
And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.
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Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.
And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.
What a load of rubbish arksey. Best manger we’ve had since Alf. You’re a bit like those who knock our Tom, he doesn’t look the part, he’s not stylish but if you analyse his performance he has been more successful than his predecessors.
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Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.
And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.
What absolute nonsense!!
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Goole - Truth and reality are in the trophy cabinet. Its bare.
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And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era - he was rubbish!
You wouldn't happen to have next week's Lottery numbers would you, Mystic Meg?
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Goole - Truth and reality are in the trophy cabinet. Its bare.
It’s been bare for nearly 60 years, Southgate got closer than anyone else, that is fact. If you try and shoehorn the “ best” players into the wrong positions it doesn’t work, that is fact.
This also is the case in every walk of life, sport,work,leisure, that is fact.
As the old saying goes “ horses for courses.”
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Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.
And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.
By calling southgate a failure means you clearly no absolutely nothing about football
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Dickos - for Gods sake let go of Southgate. He's gone. A historical failure. A has been who never was.
And yes people will look back in 20 years time and say of the Southgate era - he was rubbish! He had all those talented footballers and won nothing because he didn't have the balls.
What a load of rubbish arksey. Best manger we’ve had since Alf. You’re a bit like those who knock our Tom, he doesn’t look the part, he’s not stylish but if you analyse his performance he has been more successful than his predecessors.
Totally agree with GR and dickos
>By the way if you win your group in the group stages you often get a favourable draw, and Southgate’s team often topped these stages.
>He had good players bla bla, Well apparently Beckham, Gerard et al were the golden era, and Southgate got a lot more out of his players’ performances than that shambolic lot achieved.
> Southgate’s tactical bravery? Yep his fault 2 excellent players couldn’t hit a successful penalty.
>People won’t remember Southgate in 20 years, really, Venables is still remembered with great fondness, how many major international finals did he manage?
And on and on.
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And more, how many finals did he reach - never mind win??
BobG