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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on June 20, 2024, 05:49:10 pm

Title: England v Denmark
Post by: Filo on June 20, 2024, 05:49:10 pm
Well that first half was pathetic
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: EasyforDennis on June 20, 2024, 05:50:59 pm
Same old England. Favourites to win this tournament?? Don't make me laugh.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Filo on June 20, 2024, 05:54:11 pm
Great attacking players and set up to defend, defending that much that Kane has spent most of the half just outside our box
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: scawsby steve on June 20, 2024, 05:54:36 pm
Dreadful. It's still early days yet, but I've not seen anything that even remotely suggests we can go on and win the whole tournament; nothing whatsoever.

We're too deep, and I didn't even notice that Jude was playing.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Spud on June 20, 2024, 05:57:58 pm
Pathetic's a bit strong but frustrating again.
Looked better when Foden's got on the ball more, but then where's Jude?
Come on, get on the front foot.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 20, 2024, 06:01:44 pm
I thought the half time analysis was bang on and I'm surprised it's not been raised before

The key problem is that Kane does not press.

Stands out like a sore thumb.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Bessie Red on June 20, 2024, 06:03:01 pm
Its the manager thats causing this he is far too risk averse!!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 20, 2024, 06:03:37 pm
Its the manager thats causing this he is far too risk averse!!

No.

Kane has never played a high press.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Lesonthewest on June 20, 2024, 06:05:08 pm
Pathetic first half
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 06:05:36 pm
Not a criticism of him as such but I don't think the Trent experiment is working either. He's not spraying passes about and hes not popping up in an overload to get a cross in. If he's just there to play a standard midfield role then a midfielder should be doing it.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 20, 2024, 06:42:08 pm
It's like watching us first half of last season.

No pace.
No press.

No-one taking any responsibility.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: arkseyrover on June 20, 2024, 06:46:01 pm
Gareth. GO. PLEASE!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: MachoMadness on June 20, 2024, 06:47:42 pm
The amount of sloppy passes we've made is unbelievable. Absolutely awful.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Ldr on June 20, 2024, 06:49:51 pm
Not a criticism of him as such but I don't think the Trent experiment is working either. He's not spraying passes about and hes not popping up in an overload to get a cross in. If he's just there to play a standard midfield role then a midfielder should be doing it.

Sure someone said on the other thread he’s a joy to watch, most over rated player in English football
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 06:52:46 pm
Easy to turn it into a constant bashing thread but surprised Gordon and Palmer haven't got a look in. Not sure Eze has really had a touch.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Filo on June 20, 2024, 06:54:12 pm
Awful, this is on Southgate, set up wrong, and no balance at all
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Bessie Red on June 20, 2024, 06:54:50 pm
Its the manager thats causing this he is far too risk averse!!

No.

Kane has never played a high press.
There's 10 outfield players not just Kane. They are being told to do what they are doing & that is down to Southgate!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on June 20, 2024, 06:55:45 pm
Good choice of word from Linekar - tepid.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Pliskin on June 20, 2024, 06:56:59 pm
Horrendous. Can you sack a manager mid tournament?
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 20, 2024, 06:57:32 pm
By now you can not deny a lot of reasons why we don't play to our potential is ... the manager.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: RoversInSpain on June 20, 2024, 06:57:58 pm
2 games 4 points…. promotion form.
Not good tonight but it’s very early days.
Relax for gods sake.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 07:00:03 pm
Seems very odd a lot of fans and pundits are suggesting the same solution - Bellingham dropping in for Trent then Foden as a 10 plus a new winger yet it doesn't seem to be something on GS's radar.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: selby on June 20, 2024, 07:02:27 pm
  If Bellingham is world class, and I have watched every great player since the early 1950's, he has just given the worst performance i have seen since I watched Hungary in the early fifties.
  Not all his fault at all, it just looked like a team thinking they can play walking football, they can have all the excuses they want, the management are from the Schofield school of football.
  It is concerning that the FA teach this type of football on their coaching courses.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 20, 2024, 07:04:03 pm
Seems very odd a lot of fans and pundits are suggesting the same solution - Bellingham dropping in for Trent then Foden as a 10 plus a new winger yet it doesn't seem to be something on GS's radar.

Trent (apart from that one run) was completely absent in the game today.

Anyway, before we get to any tactical discussion, Southgate has somehow managed to put forward a talented bunch of players who are struggling to do the basics.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ForsolongaRover on June 20, 2024, 07:04:14 pm
When Walker is your most dynamic player what is the team coming to?
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Alan Southstand on June 20, 2024, 07:05:41 pm
I sincerely hope the Trent experiment is now over with. Brings Gallagher on, again, and within 10 mins he has a yellow! So predictable. Denmark looked fitter, hungrier and a plan.

Subs, again, poor.

Does backgate have any idea at all?

What was wrong with Jude, by the way, he’s not used to playing 2 games a week?

No doubt Dickos thought it was excellent!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: rtid88 on June 20, 2024, 07:07:15 pm
Defended Southgate in the past, but can't defend a manager who has the likes of Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Rice, Saka....the list could go on all in the forms of their lives and turn them into this dreadful, slow, passive team that just look so off the mark it's unbelievable.

Need to makes a handful of changes for the game on Tuesday but would best my house on him starting the same 11.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: arkseyrover on June 20, 2024, 07:09:34 pm
Dickos - where are you? Justify that shambles - all created by your man Gareth.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 07:09:49 pm
I sincerely hope the Trent experiment is now over with. Brings Gallagher on, again, and within 10 mins he has a yellow! So predictable. Denmark looked fitter, hungrier and a plan.

Subs, again, poor.

Does backgate have any idea at all?

What was wrong with Jude, by the way, he’s not used to playing 2 games a week?

No doubt Dickos thought it was excellent!

I'd hope to see a couple of completely fresh faces in the next game - either Palmer and/or Gordon. Possibly Mainoo if he just wants a direct swap for Trent. I don't think Gallagher and Bowen have shown enough to be the next men up when Plan A splutters to a halt.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: scawsby steve on June 20, 2024, 07:11:03 pm
Crap tactics, crap energy levels, crap pressing intentions. No wonder Alan Shearer is livid.

Southgate said he'll probably quit if we don't win it. Well we can all see that it's almost certain we won't win it, so let's hope we can get someone of the calibre of Jurgen or Pep before World Cup 26.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 20, 2024, 07:11:33 pm
I wonder if Southgate actually analysed the Serbia game, or has chosen to dig a trench for himself?
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Avsuptem on June 20, 2024, 07:19:28 pm
Seems to me that the only contribution Gary Southgate makes is picking the team, most of us on here could do just as good a job of that as he does. Compare him with our manager who instills belief, total commitment and enthusiasm in his players, gets them playing their hearts out. The contrast is obvious.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Draytonian III on June 20, 2024, 07:19:44 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Avsuptem on June 20, 2024, 07:21:06 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year

See post above.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: PDX_Rover on June 20, 2024, 07:25:32 pm
With all that talent why on earth did they once again simply stop playing once they got the goal. I don’t know what the strategy is there at all.

Inviting trouble. Terrible performance and I can only hope that England are lulling the other teams into a false sense of security…

Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Nudga on June 20, 2024, 07:27:38 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year

I would like Carlo Ancolotti, the bloke is a serial winner.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 20, 2024, 07:27:48 pm
With all that talent why on earth did they once again simply stop playing once they got the goal. I don’t know what the strategy is there at all.

and how many times has this happened....
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Branton Red on June 20, 2024, 07:28:18 pm
Why at every tournament are the England games the most boring?

Gave up and read my book, with the game in the background, second half.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: jmt23 on June 20, 2024, 07:29:01 pm
I think these are Southgate’s tactics though, to “manage energy” throughout the tournament. This is how he has managed us for the last few years. Get in front and try to control the game, slow it down, and hope to pick them off.
 
Today was poor though, but this is a new team in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Filo on June 20, 2024, 07:32:31 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 20, 2024, 07:32:45 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year

I would like Carlo Ancolotti, the bloke is a serial winner.

Like Fabio Capello was before he took over the Golden Generation.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: RoversInSpain on June 20, 2024, 07:33:12 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year

I would like Carlo Ancolotti, the bloke is a serial winner.
Just like Capello was?
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 07:34:31 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year

Pep or Klopp

 ;)

Although tbf I don't think they're in what Capt Mainwaring would call the realms of fantasy. I think Pep will leave City soon, he's won it all and it may be about to get messy at City. Plus does he want another massive "project" in somewhere like Italy or does he want to do something involving his current knowledge.

Klopp would bring tempo but maybe the Liverpool/England tension wouldn't allow it.

I've always rated Poch, plus at both Saints and Spurs he put a lot of players into the England setup.

I don't see an obvious English choice granted. Oddly if Potter had stayed at Brighton he'd probably be nailed on.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 20, 2024, 07:34:51 pm
Capello was a dinosaur hated by the players.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Nudga on June 20, 2024, 07:35:10 pm
Surely you manage energy by putting teams to the sword and then rotating a couple of players off the bench.
We very rarely go to kill teams off.
I feel sorry for the thousands of people going over there and spending hundreds if not thousands to experience tournament football.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Nudga on June 20, 2024, 07:35:59 pm
So if Southgate goes , who do you replace him with and why ?
 Don’t say Eddie Howe because he’ll be lucky to be Newcastle manager at the turn of the year

I would like Carlo Ancolotti, the bloke is a serial winner.
Just like Capello was?

Pat is not in Ancolloti's league.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 07:39:51 pm
Capello was a dinosaur hated by the players.

Openly sat in the team hotel cheering Italy on like a lunatic if you listen to some players/journos from the time as well now that podcasts are all the rage. I suppose, contradicting my earlier post already, thats the danger of a foreign manager.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: i_ateallthepies on June 20, 2024, 07:43:09 pm
Seems very odd a lot of fans and pundits are suggesting the same solution - Bellingham dropping in for Trent then Foden as a 10 plus a new winger yet it doesn't seem to be something on GS's radar.


Bellingham would have been one of the first subs he looked like he just couldn't be bothered.  Talk about Kane not closing down he was just ambling around while opposition players with the ball were within a couple of yards of him... nothing.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 07:46:12 pm
Seems very odd a lot of fans and pundits are suggesting the same solution - Bellingham dropping in for Trent then Foden as a 10 plus a new winger yet it doesn't seem to be something on GS's radar.


Bellingham would have been one of the first subs he looked like he just couldn't be bothered.  Talk about Kane not closing down he was just ambling around while opposition players with the ball were within a couple of yards of him... nothing.

I think on that latter point though - he never has. If it is going to be our gameplan then it needs practising quickly as a press isn't just people running around, it's coordinated so getting an international team of "strangers" to do it requires a bit more. Or play someone up front with him so the press can happen and Kane can drop on the DM.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on June 20, 2024, 07:47:44 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that

I was struggling with this too
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 20, 2024, 07:51:11 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that

Ditto. Phillips was good for England don't get me wrong when he was in form but if he's the only player who can break up an attack, give it to someone else then bomb forward to move defenders around then I'm sending GS a video of John Spicer.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on June 20, 2024, 07:54:36 pm
But we have Rice for that job anyway. He can’t be there for his passing.

Southgate has done a lot of good and whatever happens he should leave when we are out of the tournament before that get’s overlooked. It appears we’ve gone backwards since the last tournament despite having a really good squad.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ncRover on June 20, 2024, 08:03:08 pm
Shearer was laying down cold hard facts all game on co-commentary. When Southgate is getting torn apart by a failed manager it says it all.

I don’t think there will be anyone on here coming on to suggest we’re all knee-jerk negative whingers now.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Silkscarf on June 20, 2024, 08:05:36 pm
I think the 2 ‘holding midfielders’ or whatever you want to call them is the problem. 8 times out of 10 we don’t need 2 people doing that job. You’ve got Rice there so the other bloke can get forward or wide or wherever he fancies and make things happen. We’ve got several players who can do that. Other teams should be worrying about our forward players.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Campsall rover on June 20, 2024, 08:14:32 pm
I would offer it to Klopp tomorrow after that Shambles
There is no excuse for that performance tonight
Southgate is tactically inept
Good coach obviously but he has lost the plot.
No left hand side to the team
This is England it’s a joke
why take Gordon if not going to play him?
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Draytonian III on June 20, 2024, 08:16:53 pm
There was one English striker there who was in Frankfurt who would close the defenders down, John Marquis, he posted a photo on Instagram
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ncRover on June 20, 2024, 08:18:06 pm
I think the 2 ‘holding midfielders’ or whatever you want to call them is the problem. 8 times out of 10 we don’t need 2 people doing that job. You’ve got Rice there so the other bloke can get forward or wide or wherever he fancies and make things happen. We’ve got several players who can do that. Other teams should be worrying about our forward players.

2 holding midfielders is fine if you play a left winger, left back and have an attacking creative right back.

Kane said they weren’t sure on what the trigger to press was. That is seriously concerning.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Scooter on June 20, 2024, 08:20:09 pm
I’m still fuming. That performance was dreadful. I like Southgate but his number is up, time for him to go, even if we have a successful tournament
As mentioned no left hand side in either game. Get Gordon on. Today’s game was crying out for Grealish

That’s the worst game I’ve seen Bellingham play. I’m hoping we see a few changes for Slovenia
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: The Beast on June 20, 2024, 08:21:53 pm
Not wishing my summer away but be glad when this crap is over, so can get on with supporting Rovers !
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: RoversInSpain on June 20, 2024, 08:31:50 pm
There was one English striker there who was in Frankfurt who would close the defenders down, John Marquis, he posted a photo on Instagram
Talking of ex Rovers players, must say Todd Miller is having a blinder for Spain tonight.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: grayx on June 20, 2024, 08:32:49 pm
I’d like to see Southgate being brave for our next game & make a few changes. The likes of Bellingham , foden, walker, saka, kane(in particular) Trippier, will benefit from a rest, play Trent at right back, play Manoo in midfield, Gordon perhaps. Southgates messed up by not identifying a natural left back because the left sides completley unbalanced. Im not a big fan of Chilwell but he wouldhave been better than Trippier.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 20, 2024, 08:37:23 pm
Not wishing my summer away but be glad when this crap is over, so can get on with supporting Rovers !

England apart, it's been a wonderfully exciting tournament so far.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: tyke1962 on June 20, 2024, 08:38:06 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that

Southgate couldn't even get that right , the one we haven't replaced is Sterling with his ability to run in behind and let Kane drop off as he did very well  at the last Euros .

The team just doesn't look right and I don't believe this is the most together England group either under Southgate's management which has been his greatest asset previously .

Possibly one tournament too many for Southgate in my opinion .

Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ncRover on June 20, 2024, 08:44:52 pm
Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw

Wharton
Rice

Gordon
Bellingham
Saka

Kane

For me that would be our most productive starting XI
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: drfcsteve on June 20, 2024, 08:52:15 pm
Southgate’s Kalvin Phillips comment was very revealing. Is he saying that he needs to set up the team with 2 holding midfielders regardless? Is that why he’s “experimenting” putting Trent in there? Why not Mainoo if that’s what he wants? 

I’d wondered why we aren’t going 4-3-3 given it would suit what we have better and it’s what most of the players are used to playing, but I’m wondering if Southgate doesn’t have the flexibility to move away from his 4-2-3-1.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Nudga on June 20, 2024, 08:55:08 pm
Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw

Wharton
Rice

Gordon
Bellingham
Saka

Kane

For me that would be our most productive starting XI

Take out Wharton and put Foden next to Kane.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Filo on June 20, 2024, 08:55:58 pm
Southgate’s Kalvin Phillips comment was very revealing. Is he saying that he needs to set up the team with 2 holding midfielders regardless? Is that why he’s “experimenting” putting Trent in there? Why not Mainoo if that’s what he wants? 

I’d wondered why we aren’t going 4-3-3 given it would suit what we have better and it’s what most of the players are used to playing, but I’m wondering if Southgate doesn’t have the flexibility to move away from his 4-2-3-1.

4-1-4-1 is the formation for the quality we have
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Ye-Aul-Tavern on June 20, 2024, 09:03:16 pm
As a neutral I'm really enjoying the tournament so far. Watching Spain v Italy here is like a different sport to the game earlier. You're out of the group now as everyone expected and provided you don't screw up against Slovenia, you should get a decent draw in the next round. England need a big improvement but they're not out! Strange subs from Southgate today. Taking Kane off spoke volumes. He never takes Kane off so I think he's still searching for something. Then you have the Philips comment too. Something's not right.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: NickDRFC on June 20, 2024, 09:10:30 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that

Southgate couldn't even get that right , the one we haven't replaced is Sterling with his ability to run in behind and let Kane drop off as he did very well  at the last Euros .

The team just doesn't look right and I don't believe this is the most together England group either under Southgate's management which has been his greatest asset previously .

Possibly one tournament too many for Southgate in my opinion .



England fans - “Southgate just picks his favourites, can’t believe that Sterling, Rashford, Grealish still get picked”

Also England fans - “Southgate is an idiot, why have Sterling, Rashford, Grealish not been picked”

Sterling was a tremendous asset for England and he’s never really been replaced. He struggled early on but he created so much space for the team and latterly in his England career contributed a lot in terms of goals and assists. For a couple of years he dovetailed fantastically with Kane. But England fans could never see beyond him missing chances and not looking completely at ease with the ball at his feet.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t necessarily have him back now but it feels like Southgate has replaced Sterling as a player but not given any consideration into how his replacement fits into the system. The team right now looks like 11 strangers with no thought given to tactics, pressing or passages of play. An international manager doesn’t have to be a Pep or a Klopp, but there’s more to it than simply sending 11 out and saying “good luck lads, do your best”. Which is exactly how it looks for us right now.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Draytonian III on June 20, 2024, 09:12:18 pm
Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw

Wharton
Rice

Gordon
Bellingham
Saka

Kane

For me that would be our most productive starting XI


How can anyone pick TAA above Kyle Walker is totally beyond me, Walker is the one of few pluses so far
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Pancho Regan on June 20, 2024, 09:14:10 pm
Defended Southgate in the past, but can't defend a manager who has the likes of Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Rice, Saka....the list could go on all in the forms of their lives and turn them into this dreadful, slow, passive team that just look so off the mark it's unbelievable.

Need to makes a handful of changes for the game on Tuesday but would best my house on him starting the same 11.

I haven’t read the rest of this thread but I have to agree with you.

I’ve never once criticised Southgate and have attempted to shout down those who have done so.

But that was awful from England today. How can you turn very talented players like Bellingham, Foden, Rice, even Stones into very ordinary plodders?!

The BBC pundits got it spot on at half time. We were boring, almost cowardly and clueless in our lack of press and energy.
It sometimes looks like an arrogant complacency!

I can only give Southgate some credit for making three changes before 70 minutes, including pulling Kane, who I have huge respect for but who was culpable in our failure to press the Danes.

Please, England, let’s show some energy and endeavour in the next match because this was frustrating and embarrassing.

And I’m a big England fan by the way.

Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ncRover on June 20, 2024, 09:14:23 pm
Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Shaw

Wharton
Rice

Gordon
Bellingham
Saka

Kane

For me that would be our most productive starting XI

Take out Wharton and put Foden next to Kane.

And that team would then get torn apart defensively.

Wharton would allow us to keep possession better. His passing is amazing. As is TAA’s delivery from RB - we lack creativity too Draytonian.

Play the best midfielder in the world (Bellingham) in his best position. Where he plays for Real Madrid and got us a goal against Serbia.

If Foden plays his natural 10 position and Kane plays his natural game dropping deep they get in each other’s way.

Have Foden and Watkins as impact subs.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: dickos1 on June 20, 2024, 09:16:06 pm
Dickos - where are you? Justify that shambles - all created by your man Gareth.

I’m in Frankfurt mate
Watching the game
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: NickDRFC on June 20, 2024, 09:17:28 pm
Dickos - where are you? Justify that shambles - all created by your man Gareth.

I’m in Frankfurt mate
Watching the game

The “great” game, no doubt.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: dickos1 on June 20, 2024, 09:19:11 pm
I’m sure you’re aware there’s a big difference between a great game and a great result.
Not sure anyone described the Serbia game as a great game.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on June 20, 2024, 09:22:03 pm
In fairness with Kane up top you need wide forwards like Son was at Spurs. Sterling probably fits that bill.

Looking at Spain they just play a balanced team where the players just have to fit into it. If they don’t they won’t start.

For me the next match we should go

          Pickford
TAA Stones Guehi Tripper (Shaw if fit)
    Bellingham Rice Foden
       Saka Kane Gordon
 
Could even play Watkins wide left so when Kane drops he makes runs into the space like Son would.

Whatever players or formations the attitude needs to be different. Forget this low block passive rubbish. Get them fired up to get after the opposition.

Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Pancho Regan on June 20, 2024, 09:33:48 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that

I haven’t heard Southgate’s interview but if that’s what he said then I’m dumbfounded.

Calvin Phillips should never have worn an England shirt, and if Southgate’s pointing to his absence as a reason for that display then I give up.

Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Little Wolf on June 20, 2024, 09:40:52 pm
Why is it when England are on i know i have to watch but with southgate in charge i wish i had not
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on June 20, 2024, 09:42:57 pm
Basically it was we’re missing the Kalvin Phillips role so I’m playing a right back to stand on the toes of the centre halves.

I’ve been a fan of him generally but comments like this just say it’s time for change. He’s harping back a couple of tournaments ago there. Surely he’s known Phillips is miles off it for years and could have picked a midfield in all the qualifiers/friendlies to play together and get some chemistry.

Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: NickDRFC on June 20, 2024, 09:47:06 pm
We looked a much more balanced team with Phillips in the side, that’s very hard to dispute. But using that as an excuse when his last appearance for England was November is frankly pathetic.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Bills view on June 20, 2024, 10:48:44 pm
The back 6 needed to be 20 yards further up the pitch closer to the forward line and not a 6.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 20, 2024, 11:02:13 pm
Southgate: “we haven’t got a natural replacement for Calvin Phillips”

Whats he been smoking?

I can’t believe I just heard that

I haven’t heard Southgate’s interview but if that’s what he said then I’m dumbfounded.

Calvin Phillips should never have worn an England shirt, and if Southgate’s pointing to his absence as a reason for that display then I give up.



I'm thinking the same.

I've generally defended Southgate, on the grounds that he's done far better than previous managers who had arguably similar quality squads.

But this is a very revealing insight into how his mind works.

Here's a thought: if you don't have the players to play the formation you used to use, find another formation.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Colin C No.3 on June 20, 2024, 11:18:28 pm
Calvin Phillips. Southgate comes out after that miserable performance against the Danes & after being asked about playing Trent Alexander in a midfield role then substituting for both games says “It’s an experiment. Obviously missing Calvin Phillips in there means we have to look at different experiments”. He’s having a laugh!

Calvin Phillips should be nowhere near his reckoning for an England spot, he can’t even gain a regular 1st team club level spot!

Southgate has ‘wasted’ the best talent the country has produced in the last decade. He’s even making Bellingham & Foden look like Championship players.

Anyone thinking that Southgate is the answer doesn’t know the question.

The sooner Eddie Howe is given the reins the better.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Bentley Bullet on June 20, 2024, 11:48:50 pm
I've been a strong supporter of Southgate because of his achievements in England's progress as a competitive team in international football but tonight, it looked like the players were frustrated with the instructions they were given.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: PDX_Rover on June 21, 2024, 12:42:51 am
Bizarre today.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: scunny rover on June 21, 2024, 06:05:38 am
Trent shouldn't be anywhere  near this team ,I wouldn't even put him in a Liverpool team.mainoo is our best midfielder by a mile but I think he moves to much for Southgate and may go over the halfway line on occasions.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Chris Black come back on June 21, 2024, 06:28:07 am
Phillips is effective at what he does. An archetypal Leeds player. Runs around fouling people. We’ve now got Gallagher for that. If Southgate is assigning our current situation to a mid-table Premier League clogger not being available, then something has gone badly wrong in that interview.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Donnywolf on June 21, 2024, 07:56:02 am
The interview I have seen is a cliche ridden mess.
 
I've noticed Southgate has started to "lose" some of those in his pro camp having had detractors from the off and if this Team don't pick up I'm sure he will fall on his sword

Touted as Man U Manager ? That would go down well with Man City and Liverpool fans I bet

Another set of players labelled "golden generation" looking like anything but that . Surely they HAVE that ability but is GS squandering that ability ?

I don't know and can't remember exactly but didn't we lose the Euros last time after scoring early then sitting on what we had then conceding and being unable to go back up a gear

That often doesn't work in League 2 when teams drop deeper and deeper and invite pressure , then the opposition pile forward and suddenly they look like world beaters when for 60 minutes or so they were looking like they were well held.

Sorry I'll find my tablets out .
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ncRover on June 21, 2024, 08:08:58 am
Micah Richards said on BBC One. “They are lethargic - they need more energy and need to be more aggressive“

This isn’t helpful at all and just demoralises the players. I’m sure they are trying.

A press isn’t just everybody running around like headless chickens. It is about organisation.

Southgate has had ample time to sort that out, he has been the manager for 8 years. But every 2 years he gets in the “it’s a young squad” excuse.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Mike_F on June 21, 2024, 09:15:47 am
I've defended Southgate for the last few years. Many a manager has failed to get a tune out of talented English players so I've backed Southgate on his record of getting us to major semi-finals/finals where others have failed.

Last night was utterly indefensible. I said at half time it was like watching some of the poor football we've seen at the Rovers prior to our resurgence in the second half of the season. My lad's U15 team had a friendly on Wednesday night and they were better at moving the ball and pressing their opponents than England were last night. I might recommend our coach to the FA as Southgate's replacement!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: StocksArmy on June 21, 2024, 09:46:08 am
Gallagher will start next game in place of TAA. I would bet my life on it. Had we performed better last night we could have given much needed rests to all of our big players in the last game. I just don't understand how a team so full of quality can perform as badly as that and that is why this will all fall at Southgates feet. Yet another manager who can't get a tune from such a talented group. The FA really are garbage at choosing a manager.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Filo on June 21, 2024, 11:12:02 am
If Southgate would have taken another CB thats worth playing, like the lad from Everton or Tomori, Stones could play where Trent played
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: MachoMadness on June 21, 2024, 11:22:45 am
If Southgate would have taken another CB thats worth playing, like the lad from Everton or Tomori, Stones could play where Trent played
Let's not forget the Ben White situation, something odd going on there.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on June 21, 2024, 11:24:26 am
Stones can do that for city because they have 80% possession. It’d be more of a disaster than TAA playing there. The problem is we are too defensive so playing defenders in midfield mad.

We’ve reverted to England of old who’d only dare play technical players in midfield and push them out wide instead. If Foden was Spanish he’d play left of a 3 in midfield. But he’s not 6ft and not going to stand on the centre half’s toes so we stick him left wing.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: steve@dcfd on June 21, 2024, 11:28:57 am
Players in the squad who like threading passes but have no pace. A centre forward who likes to come deep and thread passes out wide to runners going past him only Saka is doing that no body on the left. Foden Bellingham Kane and Eze even palmer if selected is the same type of player all want to be in the space just outside the 18 yd box. Congestion and no idea. Without Rashford or Grealish then Gordon must be selected(I’m not sure he’s the answer but has pace). Our best results over the last 2/3 years have not come with Foden Bellingham and Saka in the same side. These players are overrated at international level. I’ve stuck up for Southgate because his record but last night was awful and his substitutes were not right. We play again on Tuesday the selection needs to be right mixture of skill and pace not team full of intricate footballers
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: drfcsteve on June 21, 2024, 11:49:07 am
The comments from the players I wonder if he’s lost the dressing room a bit. Walker saying they all want to play attacking football (but they’re not allowed?), Kane basically saying they don’t know what they’re doing?
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on June 21, 2024, 11:56:47 am
At the 1986 World Cup England started off badly with a defeat to Portugal (who in those days were a very poor side) and a draw with Morocco. The system that Bobby Robson was insisting that we played wasn't working. Following the 2nd game, the players persuaded Robson that he needed to change things for the final group game against Poland so he dropped Mark Hateley for Peter Beardsley and instructed his full backs to play more like wing backs and thus increasing our attacking threat. It worked and we won 3-0. Hopefully, the players this time around may have the same gumption to do something similar.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: dickos1 on June 21, 2024, 12:09:33 pm
The comments from the players I wonder if he’s lost the dressing room a bit. Walker saying they all want to play attacking football (but they’re not allowed?), Kane basically saying they don’t know what they’re doing?

Walker didn’t say that at all

He said the manager wants us to play free flowing attacking football
Those were his exact words
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Chris Black come back on June 21, 2024, 12:19:55 pm
At the 1986 World Cup England started off badly with a defeat to Portugal (who in those days were a very poor side) and a draw with Morocco. The system that Bobby Robson was insisting that we played wasn't working. Following the 2nd game, the players persuaded Robson that he needed to change things for the final group game against Poland so he dropped Mark Hateley for Peter Beardsley and instructed his full backs to play more like wing backs and thus increasing our attacking threat. It worked and we won 3-0. Hopefully, the players this time around may have the same gumption to do something similar.

That story was 1990 also / instead I think. They persuaded him to go to playing with a sweeper.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: mushRTID on June 21, 2024, 12:23:31 pm
The comments from the players I wonder if he’s lost the dressing room a bit. Walker saying they all want to play attacking football (but they’re not allowed?), Kane basically saying they don’t know what they’re doing?

Walker didn’t say that at all

He said the manager wants us to play free flowing attacking football
Those were his exact words

The manager is failing then isnt he.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Lesonthewest on June 21, 2024, 01:23:54 pm
It's like watching us first half of last season.

No pace.
No press.

No-one taking any responsibility.


Bang on Billy, said exactly the same. Saka receiving the ball facing OUR goal, then defending our box, was liking watching Mollineux do the same for us 18 months ago.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Alan Southstand on June 21, 2024, 02:01:12 pm
If it was a game in the football league, the supporters would be saying “he’s lost the dressing room”!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on June 21, 2024, 02:06:50 pm
At the 1986 World Cup England started off badly with a defeat to Portugal (who in those days were a very poor side) and a draw with Morocco. The system that Bobby Robson was insisting that we played wasn't working. Following the 2nd game, the players persuaded Robson that he needed to change things for the final group game against Poland so he dropped Mark Hateley for Peter Beardsley and instructed his full backs to play more like wing backs and thus increasing our attacking threat. It worked and we won 3-0. Hopefully, the players this time around may have the same gumption to do something similar.

That story was 1990 also / instead I think. They persuaded him to go to playing with a sweeper.

Ah, you're probably right there fella.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: tyke1962 on June 21, 2024, 04:59:07 pm
The comments from the players I wonder if he’s lost the dressing room a bit. Walker saying they all want to play attacking football (but they’re not allowed?), Kane basically saying they don’t know what they’re doing?

Walker didn’t say that at all

He said the manager wants us to play free flowing attacking football
Those were his exact words

No he doesn't .
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on June 21, 2024, 05:06:29 pm
Southgate certainly doesn’t want us playing attacking football. At best it’s control the game by possession. Even if that means just playing sideways and backwards.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: dickos1 on June 21, 2024, 05:41:27 pm
The comments from the players I wonder if he’s lost the dressing room a bit. Walker saying they all want to play attacking football (but they’re not allowed?), Kane basically saying they don’t know what they’re doing?

Walker didn’t say that at all

He said the manager wants us to play free flowing attacking football
Those were his exact words

No he doesn't .

No he doesn’t what?
I’m just correcting what Walker said
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: ChrisBx on June 21, 2024, 06:26:56 pm
Yesterday was poor from England, there's no getting away from that. Southgate simply cannot persist with Trent in midfield again. In my view, it was illogical from the start and it makes us a weaker side. Personally, I'd bring in Mainoo or drop Bellingham into a deeper starting position while bringing Foden central too. We also need to utilise Palmer who is simply too good to be on 0 minutes so far.

I'm also becoming increasingly concerned about our fitness levels. At times in both games, we've looked absolutely f**ked. Perhaps it's something to keep an eye on over the next game or so (hoping we progress much further!) Not having a fit left back is another issue, however Tyrick Mitchell is probably the only one we could have considered.

All that said, we're unbeaten and top of the group with qualification all but guaranteed. This is despite being nowhere near our best so far. There's much more to come from this squad and I'm still hopeful of a successful tournament. Most successful sides have poor moments in tournaments - it's about how Southgate and the players identify the issues and rectify them. Roll on Slovenia!
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: selby on June 21, 2024, 06:37:07 pm
Argentina were lucky to get out of their group in the world cup, got hammered in the game against Holland and won an iffy penalty against France in the final.
  Were they the best side in the world? did they get calls on decisions because of Messi and the authorities wanting the perfect finish for South America? definitely not to the first Question, I think there was pressure on the officials to the second, was it corrupt? probably, is anybody bothered probably not.
  It is very likely the best team in the competition will not win the Euro's Home advantage and a decent but not outstanding team in Germany 
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: scawsby steve on June 21, 2024, 10:40:58 pm
At the 1986 World Cup England started off badly with a defeat to Portugal (who in those days were a very poor side) and a draw with Morocco. The system that Bobby Robson was insisting that we played wasn't working. Following the 2nd game, the players persuaded Robson that he needed to change things for the final group game against Poland so he dropped Mark Hateley for Peter Beardsley and instructed his full backs to play more like wing backs and thus increasing our attacking threat. It worked and we won 3-0. Hopefully, the players this time around may have the same gumption to do something similar.

All those details are right, Herbert, apart from the reasons. Bobby Robson was forced into those changes because of an injury to Brian Robson, and a red card for Ray Wilkins. The changes worked with a Lineker hat trick against Poland, and another 3-0 thumping of Paraguay.

Then came the QF and Maradona's unbelievable duping of the officials. I honestly believe we'd have beaten Argentina in extra time, and might possibly have gone on to win the World Cup.
Title: Re: England v Denmark
Post by: Dagenham Rover on June 21, 2024, 10:45:11 pm



Then came the QF and Maradona's unbelievable duping of the officials. I honestly believe we'd have beaten Argentina in extra time, and might possibly have gone on to win the World Cup.

If only they had VAR ......................................................:) :)  it would have still stood   :s