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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Thorney on September 28, 2024, 06:21:43 pm

Title: Ben close
Post by: Thorney on September 28, 2024, 06:21:43 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on September 28, 2024, 06:23:36 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch
It's because he's too good for this Division, wait while we're in L1 next season then you'll see
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on September 28, 2024, 06:25:42 pm
Joking aside, it's a long hard season. Nothings won and lost in September but it's food for thought for GM
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Thorney on September 28, 2024, 06:26:41 pm
Sorry take my statement back, just realised he was on the pitch when yeboah scored against huddersfield in the cup nobody gives a damn about
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on September 28, 2024, 06:28:30 pm
He's not solely to blame but we just seem to be a complete shit show when he's in the side, starting from L1 under Wellens
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Reg of the Rovers on September 28, 2024, 06:46:15 pm
Terrible mistake offering him a new contract, too often injured but his contribution on the pitch is awful. Picks up the ball facing our goal and plays it back to a defender. No press, no strength, no creativity, doesn't get around the pitch enough. All other fit centre midfielders should start before Close.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Bills view on September 28, 2024, 06:49:57 pm
He can sometimes look good on the eye but are we better as a team when he plays?

Him with Bailey in the middle didn't work great last season in my opinion.

We need high intensity in there.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: danumdon on September 28, 2024, 06:56:36 pm
We now have issues, because we don't have anyone better to put there, Kelly is not good enough.

We missed the aggression of Clifton today, (would of been sent off again by the awful ref) we can't play a holding and disciplined Bailey with someone like Close alongside him, too passive, no energy and no forward momentum gained, looked like men against boys today. When the wide players are double marked and out of the game then these players have to step up and control the ball, never happened, again.

We need far better.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: keith79 on September 28, 2024, 07:14:24 pm
Imo. Fit and match fit are not the same. He is probably 3/4 game away from where he need to be.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: ncRover on September 28, 2024, 07:17:59 pm
Westbrooke is miles better. Said it all along
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Chris Black come back on September 28, 2024, 07:22:24 pm
Never stays fit long enough.

We can probably get away with Sharp and Ironside being a bit off at this level given their intrinsic talent relative to the defenders against them.

Our issue appears to be central midfield. Wide players hit and miss but are generally a threat. Defence maybe a bit suspect out wide but good in centre. TSL solid enough.

Feels like if our wide lads get put under pressure we don’t have anything to play through middle. It’s a group that has yet to show any combination can really work consistently.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on September 28, 2024, 07:25:29 pm
He was poor today. A couple of critical passes that he should be getting right, were given away cheaply. In his position, to get any foothold in the game, we must get the basics right and for a player of his experience, he didn't step up to the plate.

A symptom that's running through the team at the moment, being our own worst enemies. McCann needs to get a grip quickly before confidence totally evaporates.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on September 28, 2024, 08:15:34 pm
Imo. Fit and match fit are not the same. He is probably 3/4 game away from where he need to be.
3/4 games away from another club I hope
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on September 28, 2024, 09:00:11 pm
We've spent over 3 years now waiting for him to come good and he's not done it.  He's a technically good player but he doesn't suit us. Poor in the tackle and not at all quick enough.  I'd rather see Kelly or Broadbent in there.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Move DRFC on September 29, 2024, 02:03:35 am
What surprises me most is he’s been out with a serious injury for a very long time and he’s been thrown straight back into the fold. It was unlikely he was going to be great isn’t it
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Bills view on September 29, 2024, 05:01:41 am
Looking at the options, from what I've seen of Broadbent he is one-paced using a horseracing phrase. He's not done enough to convince me.

Kelly or Westbrook are most suitable to help Bailey. I also think Clifton is pretty important to the style of play that has worked best.

As well as the pressing, we need support to the centre forward and lots of runners in behind. That's when we look dangerous.

Close had a good spell last season alongside Westbrook. Maybe Westbrook is key. I do think Kelly could be the one. Remember Craig wasn't an instant success but we are crying out for that type of performance every week.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: GazLaz on September 29, 2024, 06:43:21 am
Close has been playing as a single No6 (holding midfielder). That’s not the best way to deploy him. Grant appears to be sure it is though.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on September 29, 2024, 07:08:22 am
He just seems to want to play the game at a canter , people rave about his passing but it was Close who gave the ball away before the first goal. Granted it was a few passages of play previous to the free kick but we broke away in our own half and he tried playing the ball forward and gave it straight to a Chesterfield player literally 10 yards in front of him. He had time and space to do anything he wanted , it should have been us on the attack not them.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Usher wide. on September 29, 2024, 08:44:47 am
We didn’t miss him when he was out injured & on his current form I don’t think we’d miss him now.

When it comes to his range of passing he’s no Brian Stock.

You (in theory) get more time on the ball playing in that deeper midfield role than an attacking midfielder gets so (in theory) more time to pick out a penetrating pass, dictate the pace of the game. Close does neither.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Padge_DRFC on September 29, 2024, 09:34:20 am
If he's going to play it needs to be where Sbarra is. He's technically our best midfielder on the ball, wasted IMO where he's playing now. He's better than Clifton and Sbarra for sure.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on October 02, 2024, 10:21:39 am
Any coincidence we're back to winning ways?!
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Filo on October 02, 2024, 12:20:53 pm
If he's going to play it needs to be where Sbarra is. He's technically our best midfielder on the ball, wasted IMO where he's playing now. He's better than Clifton and Sbarra for sure.

Hasn’t got the energy of either of those two
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: ForsolongaRover on October 02, 2024, 12:23:15 pm
Any coincidence we're back to winning ways?!

Clifton was worth two of Close, courageous, energetic and he gets into scoring positions.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: RoversInSpain on October 02, 2024, 01:42:01 pm
I thought Kelly was much better last night v Barrow, wanted to get hold of the ball and run with it. The whole midfield seemed to have a lot more energy than v Chesterfield.
As far as Close is concerned wouldn’t care if he never put on a Rovers shirt again. From day 1 it’s never worked.
Someone said ‘ he’s easy on the eye’ well as someone also once said we actually play on the grass.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Padge_DRFC on October 02, 2024, 01:49:14 pm
Kelly is going to be a good signing I think for us. Shame there's these silly international breaks every month and he has to leave.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: In the box on October 02, 2024, 04:35:20 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch
He detracts from the attack , he passes sideways and backwards but when ever he pass forward it seldom reaches its target !! 
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: jm291 on October 02, 2024, 05:02:20 pm
Unfortunately one of Grant's poorer decisions. Close hadn't done anything since he signed and was a permanent sick note. A 2 year contract (on hefty wages I would imagine) whilst still injured was a very strange call.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Sven Vath on October 02, 2024, 05:50:32 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch

What about last year when he returned from injury?

I don't get all the negativity toward him, easily good enough for this league.



Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: ForsolongaRover on October 02, 2024, 07:05:43 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch

What about last year when he returned from injury?

I don't get all the negativity toward him, easily good enough for this league.


Perhaps you could provide some positive evidence of his value then. If he’s “easily good enough” there should be lots of it.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Ho on October 02, 2024, 07:28:07 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch

What about last year when he returned from injury?

I don't get all the negativity toward him, easily good enough for this league.


Perhaps you could provide some positive evidence of his value then. If he’s “easily good enough” there should be lots of it.

See data from GazLaz here:  https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=291235.msg1316515#msg1316515
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: ForsolongaRover on October 02, 2024, 07:51:32 pm
Any suprise that since he has returned we habnt scored a goal when he is on the pitch

What about last year when he returned from injury?

I don't get all the negativity toward him, easily good enough for this league.





Perhaps you could provide some positive evidence of his value then. If he’s “easily good enough” there should be lots of it.

See data from GazLaz here:  https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=291235.msg1316515#msg1316515


Thanks and it’s the stats vs observational assessment argument which I know must have value, but in the case of Craig vs Close, the worth of the former to the team was rather more palpable than has ever been visible from Close.

The balance of opinion is currently not favourable to Close and it would be useful if you could support the historical statistics with some more recent evidence of his ability and value in recent games. Taking on board why, in the opinions expressed above, he is not the preferred choice at the moment, how do you answer the criticism?
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on October 02, 2024, 08:36:09 pm
It's unfair to compare Close to Craig. Very different players.

Close quite rightly was dropped for last night's game after his performance on Saturday.

The big question that remained is how and with whom, the midfield could operate more effectively.

Last night showed, with Bailey playing a bit deeper at times, the combination with Kelly and Clifton had much better balance than we've seen for sometime.

Rather than t⁴ry to pin the midfield woes down to one player, it's just not that simple, it's up to MCann to find the right combinations with who we've got.

All three have different attributes but the whole idea, is they gell and work together.

I hope Grant sticks with the same for Saturday to try and get some continuity going, albeit we lose Kelly again after that.  Westbrooke could be ready by then and slot into Kelly's position, as could Close, although he would have to play better than Saturday. Broadbent perhaps would be better suited to the same role as Bailey played last night, should we lose Bailey at some point. Sbarra I think is more suited to the Clifton role, playing further up the pitch, but dropping back in when needed.

I don't think anyone would argue that Close is not the future. He's a player that should have realised his potential by now and probably needs a fresh start elsewhere if he wants to prolong his career. 

Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Usher wide. on October 03, 2024, 06:33:53 am
Get shut he’s shit end of.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: tommy toes on October 03, 2024, 08:00:05 am
Close is a fine footballer, he’s probably the best passer of the ball we’ve got, but if he wants to be a regular starter in this team, he needs to raise his energy levels and put more aggression into his game.
If he cant then he’ll struggle to get involved.
McCann obviously rates him, so I hope they’re working with him to improve his all round game.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: i_ateallthepies on October 03, 2024, 08:25:46 am
Close's shortcomings have been evident to us all for months and longer.  I would hope that they would have been working to improve those aspects of his game for all of that time but it clearly is having very limited effect.  I think he's been given more than long enough.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: roversdude on October 03, 2024, 10:49:02 am
We certainly look more of a unit without Close, he’s a decent footballer but he seems more of a plan B than a starter how we set up to play
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Usher wide. on October 03, 2024, 11:01:50 am
Too harsh, he’s not shit. But he’s far too ponderous in this division, whether that’s him still not 100% fit, I dunno. What I do know is that he’s not the type of player that fits into the way Grant says he wants his teams to play, high press, lots of energy as has been pointed out in other posts.

He’s not for us. Astounded at the length of contract he was given. What has he shown to warrant that?
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: DonnyOsmond on October 03, 2024, 12:49:39 pm
Any coincidence we're back to winning ways?!

Clifton was worth two of Close, courageous, energetic and he gets into scoring positions.

Yeah but Lawlor saves more shots and jumps more than Clifton, so....
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Copps is Magic on October 03, 2024, 03:10:48 pm
Someone posted in another thread that Close is not cut out for the 'high-intensity' games. I've been chuckling all week. Just need to find the low-intensity ones to play him then.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: GazLaz on October 03, 2024, 03:16:24 pm
I like Close. Spent a bit of time watching loads of clips of him on Wyscout, came to the conclusion he looks really slow. Doesn’t help when you are playing in that holding role.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: ForsolongaRover on October 03, 2024, 03:27:44 pm
Any coincidence we're back to winning ways?!

Clifton was worth two of Close, courageous, energetic and he gets into scoring positions.

Yeah but Lawlor saves more shots and jumps more than Clifton, so…


So you’re too subtle for me.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: andyst79 on October 03, 2024, 05:27:27 pm
I'd be interested to know how many appearances he's made since he signed for us & how many times he's been on the winning side? One for the stattos!
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Usher wide. on October 03, 2024, 05:45:26 pm
I like Close. Spent a bit of time watching loads of clips of him on Wyscout, came to the conclusion he looks really slow. Doesn’t help when you are playing in that holding role.

You need a hobby!
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: DonnyOsmond on October 03, 2024, 07:10:38 pm
I like Close. Spent a bit of time watching loads of clips of him on Wyscout, came to the conclusion he looks really slow. Doesn’t help when you are playing in that holding role.

Doesn't do transitions.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: RoversInSpain on October 03, 2024, 07:37:02 pm
It's unfair to compare Close to Craig. Very different players.

Close quite rightly was dropped for last night's game after his performance on Saturday.

The big question that remained is how and with whom, the midfield could operate more effectively.

Last night showed, with Bailey playing a bit deeper at times, the combination with Kelly and Clifton had much better balance than we've seen for sometime.

Rather than t⁴ry to pin the midfield woes down to one player, it's just not that simple, it's up to MCann to find the right combinations with who we've got.

All three have different attributes but the whole idea, is they gell and work together.

I hope Grant sticks with the same for Saturday to try and get some continuity going, albeit we lose Kelly again after that.  Westbrooke could be ready by then and slot into Kelly's position, as could Close, although he would have to play better than Saturday. Broadbent perhaps would be better suited to the same role as Bailey played last night, should we lose Bailey at some point. Sbarra I think is more suited to the Clifton role, playing further up the pitch, but dropping back in when needed.

I don't think anyone would argue that Close is not the future. He's a player that should have realised his potential by now and probably needs a fresh start elsewhere if he wants to prolong his career.
So in the words of Spandau Ballet, to cut a long story short,
Close is just not upto it end of. He’s had long enough to do something that enhances the team and he just has not and still doesn’t
Your first sentence is the understatement of the year, and totally correct. In the same paragraph as Dodoo is no Ronaldo
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: GazLaz on October 03, 2024, 09:47:01 pm
I like Close. Spent a bit of time watching loads of clips of him on Wyscout, came to the conclusion he looks really slow. Doesn’t help when you are playing in that holding role.

Doesn't do transitions.

Always been obvious he’s not dynamic. He’s probably even slower than I thought. Dis positioning is great to make up for it but it still means he’s a fraction of a second later to duels than he could be.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Usher wide. on October 03, 2024, 10:27:31 pm
I like Close. Spent a bit of time watching loads of clips of him on Wyscout, came to the conclusion he looks really slow. Doesn’t help when you are playing in that holding role.

Doesn't do transitions.

Always been obvious he’s not dynamic. He’s probably even slower than I thought. Dis positioning is great to make up for it but it still means he’s a fraction of a second later to duels than he could be.

Not dynamic, slower than you thought, a fraction of a second later to duels than he could (I would say should) be = he’s not good enough to be in the team = get rid.

Say it as it is.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: NickDRFC on October 04, 2024, 07:34:21 am
I like Close. Spent a bit of time watching loads of clips of him on Wyscout, came to the conclusion he looks really slow. Doesn’t help when you are playing in that holding role.

Doesn't do transitions.

Always been obvious he’s not dynamic. He’s probably even slower than I thought. Dis positioning is great to make up for it but it still means he’s a fraction of a second later to duels than he could be.

Not dynamic, slower than you thought, a fraction of a second later to duels than he could (I would say should) be = he’s not good enough to be in the team = get rid.

Say it as it is.

To me that’s a very binary point of view.

Would I have extended his contract? No
Would he be in my first choice team? No
Would I play him in the position/system that McCann has been? No
Could he potentially still have something to offer in certain types of game/game situation? Absolutely

Besides, it’s the start of October. How exactly do we “get rid”? The only option is to pay off his contract, and given he’s probably one of our highest earners and has almost 2 years to go that won’t be cheap. Alternatively we wait until January and hope that someone takes him on full wages (unlikely), or loan him out/allow him to go for free with us still paying a proportion (not ideal). As long as he still works hard and isn’t disruptive I think he could still have something to offer this season and will get minutes when the games come thick and fast and injuries/suspensions start to bite.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: DonnyOsmond on October 04, 2024, 08:58:13 am
"He's not good enough to be in the team" isn't the right thing either. He's still a decent player, he's just probably better in a team with a slower build up.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: Reg of the Rovers on October 04, 2024, 09:24:07 am
"He's not good enough to be in the team" isn't the right thing either. He's still a decent player, he's just probably better in a team with a slower build up.
Like Father Ted's 5-a-side team?
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: bobbymax on October 04, 2024, 10:12:18 am
There will be games this season that will suit Close's style of play. He was excellent at MK Dons and has only just come back from a bad injury. Grant will need to pick and choose the matches for him to start but I don't really get the vilification of one of our own players from a section of 'fans'. Why do we always have to have a hate figure, is that how modern culture works? All of our players have limitations in some areas, that's why they are plying their trade in the fourth tier!
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: ForsolongaRover on October 04, 2024, 01:54:07 pm
One thing is certain.More seems to have been written about Close than any other player over the time he’s been here. The fact that occasionally he can be brilliant maintains his supporters’ faith.

It is surely a considerable challenge to decide when a match in this rough and tumble league might suit his delicate touch. Rarely, I would have thought. Perhaps McCann could think the unthinkable and use him as a substitute. That way the character of the game is established as either suitable or not.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: drfchound on October 04, 2024, 04:28:40 pm
I remember when Close was injured in the match at Bradford.
In the games leading up to that one Close had been very good and there were plenty of posts in the following week suggesting that we would be much weaker without him.
Title: Re: Ben close
Post by: StocksArmy on October 05, 2024, 03:03:55 pm
Take him out of the team and we get after teams. Simple as that.