Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Metalmicky on October 13, 2024, 06:10:05 pm
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Watching this is a bit frustrating... seem to be treating it like a practise match - far to casual and no energy.. I'm actually hoping that Finland score.
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Like watching rovers, walking football.
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It's always the same watching England - so frustrating!!
Dull possession based football, nobody takes a player on, no dribbling just little square balls played sideways and backwards - boring!
Watched TAA closely in the 1st half and he's receiving the ball and could be running onto it driving us forward but no he's standing still passing square or behind!
Said before I don't know why I watch England.
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This is mind numbing, what is it with playing a RB at LB?
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Try and beat a Man and get a cross in ffs
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This is tedious. We're very lucky to be ahead.
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Papering over the cracks..
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This is mind numbing, what is it with playing a RB at LB?
Population of England is 56 million and we can’t find a left back.
Is someone having a laugh or something.
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Sick of this tippy tappy overplay.... I want to see lads running their b*llocks off for the cause. Overpaid pricks.
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I wasn't even aware England had a match tonight.
Shows how much interest I have in them.
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So much for Palmer being a World beater! Deary me, it’s like watching paint dry.
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Everyone of them terrified of making a mistake, not ounce of bravery from any one of them on the ball, and Bellingham as good as he his take note, there’s no I in team
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Everyone of them terrified of making a mistake, not ounce of bravery from any one of them on the ball, and Bellingham as good as he his take note, there’s no I in team
Believes his own hype!
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Sick of this tippy tappy overplay.... I want to see lads running their b*llocks off for the cause. Overpaid pricks.
Not massively into social media but stumbled across Jamie Lawrence's account on Instagram, it's well worth a look , he speaks a lot of sense about the state of the game , tactics and coaching at grassroots
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Everyone of them terrified of making a mistake, not ounce of bravery from any one of them on the ball, and Bellingham as good as he his take note, there’s no I in team
Believes his own hype!
He’s developed a bit of a chip on his shoulder since being at Real Madrid in my opinion
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England have the same problem as us, in that most teams we play against will shove 10 men behind the ball and it means it can very frustrating to watch as they struggle to carve out chances.
Admittedly you would think prem players would know how to deal with it.
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That was just so slow, pedestrian and boring.
I only watched the second half but found it tedious and frustrating.
I think I'll give watching England a break for a while.
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Looks like the dreadful ‘Golden Era’, where players played for themselves, (yep no I in team but definitely a me) and there were club cliques, with the media going big on criticism.
Southgate did a great job breaking those cliques down to get what seemed like a gelled team, he got the media onside after the slatings the so called ‘Golden Era’ continually got, and had players play with no fear, some even playing better for their county than their club.
A World Cup semi, a quarter and 2 Euro finals shows he got a lot right.
The last 2 and it is only 2 performances, feel like we’re heading all the way back to the Billy Big B****cks era, back to square one.
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Think there is possibly some overreaction going on. The nations league is hardly a barometer of anything. Remember us getting pumped by Hungary - had no bearing on our tournament success whatsoever. A workmanlike but ultimately comfortable win away in Finland isn't worth getting fired up about.
They're glorified friendlies, for experimenting. Granted Carsley's first major experiment was a disaster, but we saw plenty of those under Southgate as well. Got two more fixtures either way.
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Hopefully right the wrong in Athens and do the double over Ireland. We may then see a permanent manager come in for the WC qualifiers, who that is or who I actually want as manager I'm not sure
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When I see Palmer I always think of...
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When I see Palmer I always think of...
Can see the ‘caricature likeness’ however, to score the goals Palmer does I would happily run out onto the pitch every game looking like that!
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Seeing reports Tuchel is now favourite for the job. Would be interesting to see how he translates his style to international football, in theory I can see it working well. Very good coach, bit of a lunatic though. Should be entertaining if nothing else.
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https://news.sky.com/story/thomas-tuchel-signs-deal-to-become-new-england-manager-13234092
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Tuchel is the perfect appointment for me.
Can handle big name players, tactically adaptable, a proven knock-out football manager and a winner.
No more farting about with mediocrity and mr nice guys. Let’s win something, we have the tools to do so.
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Difficult to stomach a German being England manager
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Just plain wrong appointing a German.
Big ask of him if he's going to go one step better than southgate, and even if he does, I'll still have that niggle of him being a German
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The FA have clearly recognised they need someone who can take the big decisions when it matters (ie in finals) and take that next step to winning something - which he’s done many times. Can’t complain.
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Why, in year 2024…does it matter that he’s German?
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Just plain wrong appointing a German.
Big ask of him if he's going to go one step better than southgate, and even if he does, I'll still have that niggle of him being a German
There’s a word for not liking people based on their race.
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Just plain wrong appointing a German.
Big ask of him if he's going to go one step better than southgate, and even if he does, I'll still have that niggle of him being a German
There’s a word for not liking people based on their race.
Being German is a nationality, not a race
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If he gets us playing attractive successful football he can be whatever nationality he wants, he can be Thomas McTuchel is he wants.
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Difficult to stomach a German being England manager
Why? They don't care that they have English players in their team.... Neither do France. Times have changed and English/German cultures are more alike than most, particularly in football.
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I'm in no position to say he's the wrong choice.
It's just disappointing we've not been able to appoint someone from our own 'DNA' so to speak. If he'd been available, then I would have been happy with Eddie Howe for example, but it doesn't look good if we don't have many more home grown coaches of the right qualities so the FA need to look at succession management. I would have liked Gareth to have been retained in a role, as there were many good things he brought to the England set up during his time.
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We have a wing-nut..... great
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Well people have been asking for a 'proven' manager... You can count on one hand the number of managers more 'proven' than this one. Less still if you only count the ones out of contract.
If he wins us a trophy he can be German, wave a German flag, and sing the German national anthem before every game to be honest.
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No compensation. Rubbish England gone for the cheap option
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The Anglo Saxons came from NW Germany. Many of us are more Germanic than British, that ancient Britons being pushed to the edges of the country.
That being said, I've never been very comfortable with the national manager not being brought up here.To me it's not professional football, it's a national endeavour and that should include the coaching staff.
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According to Sky Germany it’s an 18 month contract and will begin on January 1st.
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Well people have been asking for a 'proven' manager... You can count on one hand the number of managers more 'proven' than this one. Less still if you only count the ones out of contract.
If he wins us a trophy he can be German, wave a German flag, and sing the German national anthem before every game to be honest.
Before being England manager Capello as manager won....7 x Serie A, 2 x La Liga, 1 x Champions League. He was awful at tournaments with England
Before being the current Argentina manager, Scaloni won.......
My point, as others on the thread have asked. You dont win or gain some extra right to win a tournament just by spending the most money on a manager or getting one who won lots at club level. But here we go again in the media and amongst fans.
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Poor choice
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Well people have been asking for a 'proven' manager... You can count on one hand the number of managers more 'proven' than this one. Less still if you only count the ones out of contract.
If he wins us a trophy he can be German, wave a German flag, and sing the German national anthem before every game to be honest.
Before being England manager Capello as manager won....7 x Serie A, 2 x La Liga, 1 x Champions League. He was awful at tournaments with England
Before being the current Argentina manager, Scaloni won.......
My point, as others on the thread have asked. You dont win or gain some extra right to win a tournament just by spending the most money on a manager or getting one who won lots at club level. But here we go again in the media and amongst fans.
Sarina Weigman
Plus Capello could barely speak English and had never managed in this country. Unlike Tuchel.
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Why, in year 2024…does it matter that he’s German?
Exactly and if he is the best man for the job,then so be it.It would be a bit ironic though,if he becomes our first manager to win a major tournament since 66.
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Why, in year 2024…does it matter that he’s German?
Exactly and if he is the best man for the job,then so be it.It would be a bit ironic though,if he becomes our first manager to win a major tournament since 66.
Even more so if we were to beat Germany in the final (again).
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Well people have been asking for a 'proven' manager... You can count on one hand the number of managers more 'proven' than this one. Less still if you only count the ones out of contract.
If he wins us a trophy he can be German, wave a German flag, and sing the German national anthem before every game to be honest.
Before being England manager Capello as manager won....7 x Serie A, 2 x La Liga, 1 x Champions League. He was awful at tournaments with England
Before being the current Argentina manager, Scaloni won.......
My point, as others on the thread have asked. You dont win or gain some extra right to win a tournament just by spending the most money on a manager or getting one who won lots at club level. But here we go again in the media and amongst fans.
This is true, and why I'd have been happy to give Carsley a bit more time to stamp his mark on the team. I don't think a history in club football means much.
My point was those asking for a proven manager have got what they wanted, in spades. If your definition of 'proven' is success at the top level of the club game, then there isn't a more proven manager available than Tuchel. We'll see if it's the right call.
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Whilst i would have preferred an Englishman, i think its a good appointment. Tuchel is a winner. We need to win something. He will have the respect of the players. I think there are a couple of egos in that dressing room that need managing. He can do that. Carsley was not the man for me.You need more than just coaching skills to be the England manager. You have be able to handle all the other stuff too. You have to be good in front of camera, handle the media and the pressure the role brings. The England manager cant be putting cones out in a tracksuit before a game.
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Difficult to stomach a German being England manager
It was difficult to stomach an English England manager who refused to sing his country’s national anthem. A great example of pride and motivation to his players.
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Difficult to stomach a German being England manager
It was difficult to stomach an English England manager who refused to sing his country’s national anthem. A great example of pride and motivation to his players.
40+ caps for Ireland. It's not an issue. The media made it more than it was
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Well people have been asking for a 'proven' manager... You can count on one hand the number of managers more 'proven' than this one. Less still if you only count the ones out of contract.
If he wins us a trophy he can be German, wave a German flag, and sing the German national anthem before every game to be honest.
Before being England manager Capello as manager won....7 x Serie A, 2 x La Liga, 1 x Champions League. He was awful at tournaments with England
Before being the current Argentina manager, Scaloni won.......
My point, as others on the thread have asked. You dont win or gain some extra right to win a tournament just by spending the most money on a manager or getting one who won lots at club level. But here we go again in the media and amongst fans.
Sarina Weigman
Plus Capello could barely speak English and had never managed in this country. Unlike Tuchel.
There were 3 part time teams at Euro 2022 ie plumbers and electricians so let's not even bother going there.
Let's hope Tuchel does the bizzo but my point still stands that "great CV" isn't good enough to be the main reason
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Players born in countries other than England may qualify for the England team through English parents or grandparents, or residency in England and subsequent naturalisation as British citizens.
The manager is just as much a part of the team as the players and should have to follow the same rules.
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Just heard a journalist on Five live express the way I feel about this very well.
Given the manager in football is seen as the most consequential individual, why don't the same rules of nationality apply as the players?
Buying in outside expertise in this way devalues international football.
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If England were to win a tournament under Tuchel, the Germans would claim responsibility.
It would definitely take the edge off us winning something.
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In international football there is less contact time with the players. Tuchel won the champions league (knockout football) after 4 months with Chelsea. And he had Werner and Mount in attack. That is ridiculous.
I personally don’t care where he comes from. He is an individual. He wanted the job. He enjoys working in England and has spoken fondly of our players in the past. He admires our football culture.
To manage world class players (some with big egos) you need a world class manager. If the small matter of where someone was born and raised is more important than success then that’s a bit sad I’m afraid. No English managers are anywhere near Tuchel.
Semi-finals and runners up medals don’t mean anything.
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It's more a question for FIFA and UEFA.
What's the point in international football if you can just buy in foreign talent? The manager these days is seen as the most important member of the team.
International football has an ethic more like amatuer football, though this has been degraded over recent decades. To me, that's what it still should aspire to be.
We have club football for the professional alternative.
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Well people have been asking for a 'proven' manager... You can count on one hand the number of managers more 'proven' than this one. Less still if you only count the ones out of contract.
If he wins us a trophy he can be German, wave a German flag, and sing the German national anthem before every game to be honest.
Before being England manager Capello as manager won....7 x Serie A, 2 x La Liga, 1 x Champions League. He was awful at tournaments with England
Before being the current Argentina manager, Scaloni won.......
My point, as others on the thread have asked. You dont win or gain some extra right to win a tournament just by spending the most money on a manager or getting one who won lots at club level. But here we go again in the media and amongst fans.
Sarina Weigman
Plus Capello could barely speak English and had never managed in this country. Unlike Tuchel.
There were 3 part time teams at Euro 2022 ie plumbers and electricians so let's not even bother going there.
Let's hope Tuchel does the bizzo but my point still stands that "great CV" isn't good enough to be the main reason
I thought you were coming at it from a cultural angle?
Can you please explain how the women’s game being a lower standard makes a foreign manager work out there but not in the men’s game?
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If England were to win a tournament under Tuchel, the Germans would claim responsibility.
It would definitely take the edge off us winning something.
I don’t agree with that.
If, say, Eddie Howe won the World Cup for Germany, I’d be:
A. As jealous as f**k
B. Thinking why, oh why could we not get him?
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Just plain wrong appointing a German.
Big ask of him if he's going to go one step better than southgate, and even if he does, I'll still have that niggle of him being a German
There’s a word for not liking people based on their race.
There's a name for people like you too.
Oh, and German is a nationality not a race
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If England were to win a tournament under Tuchel, the Germans would claim responsibility.
It would definitely take the edge off us winning something.
I don’t shree with that.
If, say, Eddie Howe won the World Cup for Germany, I’d be:
A. As jealous as f**k
B. Thinking why, oh why could we not get him?
Yeah, so it would be down to eddie however, our fellow englishman
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If England were to win a tournament under Tuchel, the Germans would claim responsibility.
It would definitely take the edge off us winning something.
I don’t shree with that.
If, say, Eddie Howe won the World Cup for Germany, I’d be:
A. As jealous as f**k
B. Thinking why, oh why could we not get him?
Yeah, so it would be down to eddie however, our fellow englishman
That’s not the point I was making.
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If he wins matches for England couldn’t care less where he’s from.
Seems a good character, that handshake with Conti was a cracker, nearly ripped his arm off.
Next we’ll be saying Rovers should have an English manager…..
Well no thanks!
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He'll have an English assistant in Anthony Barry.
I think this is a good appointment. I've stopped bothering about whether we have an Englishman as England manager to be honest.
There isn't exactly a rich pool of talent to pick from.
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If England were to win a tournament under Tuchel, the Germans would claim responsibility.
It would definitely take the edge off us winning something.
I don’t shree with that.
If, say, Eddie Howe won the World Cup for Germany, I’d be:
A. As jealous as f**k
B. Thinking why, oh why could we not get him?
Yeah, so it would be down to eddie however, our fellow englishman
That’s not the point I was making.
It clearly was :lol:
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Just plain wrong appointing a German.
Big ask of him if he's going to go one step better than southgate, and even if he does, I'll still have that niggle of him being a German
There’s a word for not liking people based on their race.
There's a name for people like you too.
Oh, and German is a nationality not a race
I’d love to hear it. I’m guessing it’s “woke” which seems to be your catch all term for anyone calling out your xenophobia.
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Just plain wrong appointing a German.
Big ask of him if he's going to go one step better than southgate, and even if he does, I'll still have that niggle of him being a German
There’s a word for not liking people based on their race.
There's a name for people like you too.
Oh, and German is a nationality not a race
I’d love to hear it. I’m guessing it’s “woke” which seems to be your catch all term for anyone calling out your xenophobia.
Oh, I was definitely thinking of something stronger than "woke" :lol:
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People want an Englishman as England manager but then hound out the guy who got us to two finals, a semi final and a quarter final because he didn't chuck 7 attackers on the pitch.
Then don't want the Englishman who then tried chucking 7 attacking players on and lost as he's not experienced enough/a big enough name - ignoring the fact he's won things internationally with a lot of this group of players
I don't care who's in charge or how we win as long as we finally go that next step and win it.
There's an argument about the nationality having the same rules as playing but that's all it is, at the minute Tuchel is eligible, available and clearly wants to succeed as England manager.
For me I'm surprised all managers of a high calibre aren't chucking themselves at the England job if only for ego....Imagine being the one who finally wins something with England. You'd have completed football. If we win the next World Cup I don't care who the manager is. If they're proudly representing our country I don't care where they're from.
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Anything less than 2 euros finals will be a step backwards.
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Contracts for 18 month to the World cup finals should we qualify. Let’s hope he can get the England players playing like they do in the Premier League and Euro leagues. When did the last English manager win the Premier League Champions League or a Cup or League in Europe. There’s been more Scottish managers win Premier league Champions League.
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If England were to win a tournament under Tuchel, the Germans would claim responsibility.
It would definitely take the edge off us winning something.
I don’t shree with that.
If, say, Eddie Howe won the World Cup for Germany, I’d be:
A. As jealous as f**k
B. Thinking why, oh why could we not get him?
Yeah, so it would be down to eddie however, our fellow englishman
That’s not the point I was making.
It clearly was :lol:
No, that’s a point you made. It’s not very often you can take credit for something on here, so enjoy it.
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Not arsed about this appointment as long as we aren't watching the tedious dross we have been subjected to over the last few years under Southgate/Carsley...
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International teams are only able to select players who are eligible to play for them by nationality.
To employ a foreign coach to take charge of our national team is to admit our own coaches are inferior and it is an insult to them and our own country regarding the state of our football.
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Our own coaches are inferior. Fact. The last English coach to win the premier league? Howard Wilkinson 1991/92.
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International teams are only able to select players who are eligible to play for them by nationality.
To employ a foreign coach to take charge of our national team is to admit our own coaches are inferior and it is an insult to them and our own country regarding the state of our football.
At what level of the footballing operation is it not an “insult” to have someone non-English employed?
Perhaps English coaches should take personal responsibility for not being good enough. It’s the FA’s job to give them opportunities, which they do. But you can’t spoon-feed individual greatness.
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I don't think we develop creative or intuitive coaches - my problem with Southgate and Schofield was not that their philosophy was wrong, it was that they couldn't play any other way - it's this by the manual playbook that means coaches can't deal with in-game situations. It's like thinking your a joiner after assembling Ikea furniture from the instructions.
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I don't think we develop creative or intuitive coaches - my problem with Southgate and Schofield was not that their philosophy was wrong, it was that they couldn't play any other way - it's this by the manual playbook that means coaches can't deal with in-game situations. It's like thinking your a joiner after assembling Ikea furniture from the instructions.
Bang on Reg.
“The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect one”.
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I think that the most important quality in any manager in any organisation is flexibility. You are managing the “here and now” and that flexibility means getting the best out of a squad which will vary in selection and therefore composition more frequently than the average club side.
You need someone who has the depth of ability to adapt in every way and get the best out of players who, if he were a club manager would not necessarily want in his team, but at international level he cannot really exclude from his squad.
It’s no wonder really that so many fail.
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I can’t believe folks on here getting uptight cos Tuchel is a German, after all how many world Cups have they Won?
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International teams are only able to select players who are eligible to play for them by nationality.
To employ a foreign coach to take charge of our national team is to admit our own coaches are inferior and it is an insult to them and our own country regarding the state of our football.
At what level of the footballing operation is it not an “insult” to have someone non-English employed?
Perhaps English coaches should take personal responsibility for not being good enough. It’s the FA’s job to give them opportunities, which they do. But you can’t spoon-feed individual greatness.
When it's not the ENGLAND team!
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International teams are only able to select players who are eligible to play for them by nationality.
To employ a foreign coach to take charge of our national team is to admit our own coaches are inferior and it is an insult to them and our own country regarding the state of our football.
At what level of the footballing operation is it not an “insult” to have someone non-English employed?
Perhaps English coaches should take personal responsibility for not being good enough. It’s the FA’s job to give them opportunities, which they do. But you can’t spoon-feed individual greatness.
When it's not the ENGLAND team!
Did you take issue with Sarina Wiegman being the women’s manager or Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink being on Southgate’s coaching staff?
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I'm not taking issue with it. I just think an England team should have an English manager.
Sarina Wiegkan is doing a great job, but, likewise, I'd prefer it if the women's team had an English coach.
Hasselbank has English nationality.
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If a manager gets a tune out of us and wins us a trophy then it’s totally irrelevent who they are or what nationality they are.
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Maybe not, but I'm sure we'd all prefer someone with some relevance of national citizenship to win us a trophy.
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I'm not taking issue with it. I just think an England team should have an English manager.
Sarina Wiegkan is doing a great job, but, likewise, I'd prefer it if the women's team had an English coach.
Hasselbank has English nationality.
Apart from Carsley then we have Eddie Howe but to get him the FA would have to
Pay compensation yet he’s won nothing yet. It’s a short contract to do with qualification hopefully and then the World Cup
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I'd rather have Eddie Howe win a tournament as England manager than Thomas Tuchel, it's as simple as that.
Wouldn't you?
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Maybe not, but I'm sure we'd all prefer someone with some relevance of national citizenship to win us a trophy.
If I may be permitted, not all, not possible, I haven't been asked nor have I seen a poll asking that question. In reference to another comment, Hasselbaink may have duel citizenship but even that appears to be an unknown atm unless someone can point to evedence of his status. For me it's irrelevent where a person's origins lie as long as they can do the job. I wouldn't mind seeing DM have a crack he appears to be doing a good job with Port Vale.
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The only real candidates were Potter and Howe English wise. The latter would have cost a whack in compensation. Obviously didn't fancy Potter. There was Lampard and Gerrard. Neither have done anything in a proper league. (Rangers came top out of 2 teams basically)
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I'd rather have Eddie Howe win a tournament as England manager than Thomas Tuchel, it's as simple as that.
Wouldn't you?
There’s no guarantee with either manager that we could win a World Cup. The FA have set Tuchel a target to try and achieve that but are we good enough do we have the players to achieve that. Gareth tried he may have been to negative but did the players show their true potential in the Euros or weren’t allowed to by the oppositions we played.
Eddie Howe would have been a good call but he’s not won anything yet with the teams he has managed. So they’ve handed the reins over to Tuchel whether he’s German or not is irrelevant he’s won games he’s won Cups in knockout competitions. Carsley is Irish good coach won the U21 competition in knockout competition and therefore could been a better call than Eddie Howe.
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I'd rather have Eddie Howe win a tournament as England manager than Thomas Tuchel, it's as simple as that.
Wouldn't you?
I am delighted with the appointment of Thomas Tuchel.
I think I would agree with your point - but I also think that we have a better chance of winning a tournament with Thomas Tuchel than we would with Eddie Howe.
That's what it's all about really!
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We'd have a better chance of winning with Messi in the side, but he's not English. I just think the same rule should apply to the manager, that's all.
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I'd rather have Eddie Howe win a tournament as England manager than Thomas Tuchel, it's as simple as that.
Wouldn't you?
Yes, I agree BB.
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I'd rather have Eddie Howe win a tournament as England manager than Thomas Tuchel, it's as simple as that.
Wouldn't you?
Of course we would. As you said earlier, the appointment highlights the weakness in our National Teams coaching structure. Just as we supposed to identify emerging playing talent, we should be doing the same with coaches and inviting them to be involved in the England set up somehow. Maybe the likes of Howe and Potter should be invited to St Georges Park on international breaks when the teams gather etc., so they can be groomed and prepared when the call comes?
Once we get over the disappointment we haven't appointed an English coach, we can get on and talk about the merits of Tuchel and what we think he can improve on. I don't know him well enough to know what kind of football or system he prefers.
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We'd have a better chance of winning with Messi in the side, but he's not English. I just think the same rule should apply to the manager, that's all.
Jack Charlton was possibly Ireland’s most successful manager and they loved him. That aside, if you’re relying on principles we seem to have been comfortable at club level to accept such as McCann as our manager, just as the big Premier League teams have poured out the love for their foreign managers. We have had a smattering of Yorkshire managers over the years, but I cannot recall any objections to any of those appointed on the grounds of their place of birth.
People might suggest that loyalty to a country is stronger than that to the team they have supported for ever and the national team. Seriously???
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It's not about principles. It's about why a rule for England players doesn't apply to the manager.
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International teams are only able to select players who are eligible to play for them by nationality.
To employ a foreign coach to take charge of our national team is to admit our own coaches are inferior and it is an insult to them and our own country regarding the state of our football.
At what level of the footballing operation is it not an “insult” to have someone non-English employed?
Perhaps English coaches should take personal responsibility for not being good enough. It’s the FA’s job to give them opportunities, which they do. But you can’t spoon-feed individual greatness.
15% English managers in the EPL compared to 70% Italians in Serie A. So yep English are being discriminated against and need a quota. You'd get it in American Football or if other demographics were having a winge
Whats most dissapointing....the "greatest, richest, best" etc etc league in the world is based in England and has produced in 20+ years a grand total of ZERO English managers who've won an international trophy for England and ZERO Englsih players who've done that
And now, after 20+ years of the "best" league and millions invested in St George's Park we've got ZERO English managers good enough at either the men's or women's level.
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I'm not sure a quota is the answer. It's a more than level playing field, so there must be something fundamentally wrong with how we develop managers in this country. 20 years ago we changed how we play football at a grassroots junior level to match up with the Dutch / European model - small pitches, small goals, smaller numbers of players, age appropriate ball etc etc to improve the fundamentals of the game - unlike when I played kids football on a full size pitch with full size goals 11 v 11!
Something similar is needed therefore in how we develop our managers. Our top players don't kick on to be great managers (Rooney, Gerrard, Neville(s), Lampard etc all bang average) and we just don't seem to have a pipeline of new top-level managers. How many English managers are managing overseas? Not many I can think of. They tend to retire in to management and learn as they go, at the club they played for - which can't be the right model.
This article from July highlights the problem - if these are the top ten English managers them God help us!
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-english-managers-in-football-right-now (https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-english-managers-in-football-right-now)
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I saw someone suggested Darren Moore the other day.
What next, Gary McSheffrey as his assistant?
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This thread prompted me to have a look at the managers of national football teams around the world (yeah I know, but I'm retired OK?!).
I was amazed to find that there are no fewer than ELEVEN Englishmen plying their trade as managers of national football teams:
Gary White - Chinese Taipei
Ashley Westwood - Hong Kong
Stephen Constantine - Pakistan
Chris Kiwomya - British Virgin Islands
Steve McClaren - Jamaica
Lee Bowyer - Montserrat
Charlie Trout - Puerto Rico
Ricky Hill - Turks & Caicos Islands
Jake Kewley - Kiribati (not members of FIFA)
Darren Bazeley - New Zealand
Terry Connor - Grenada
Every day's a school day...........!
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Thanks Pancho, that's really interesting. Some fabulous places to live, but not exactly big footballing nations, or particularly household names! I suppose it reinforces the point about the lack of English managerial talent at the highest levels.
If our biggest managerial export is Steve McClaren then something is definitely going wrong.
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The FA asked for an elite candidate with a trophy cabinet behind them. No English manager has that.
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The FA asked for an elite candidate with a trophy cabinet behind them. No English manager has that.
(https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/webimg/b25lY21zOjY0NjNjNjNmLThjMzEtNGQ2Yy1hYTJjLTFmYmJlMWEwMTJmZDo2ZGU2ODgzMC04NzhmLTRlYTMtYjIyMi1iNTJlMTRiYmUyOGI=.jpg?crop=3:2,smart&trim=&width=640&quality=65&enable=upscale)
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I saw someone suggested Darren Moore the other day.
What next, Gary McSheffrey as his assistant?
Wouldn't cope without the loan market
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There's a wider issue here around English coaches. I saw some figures the other day about coaching courses in England compared to other countries.
The A or Pro license course is about £4,000 in England. In Germany it's about £500. In England there's also very limited spots on the courses whereas elsewhere it's a lot more accessible. Caveat to this is I saw it online so could be talking complete b*llocks but it is very difficult for a young coach starting out to get onto that ladder in this country.
We are currently developing some of the best players in the world but we need to work on how we develop the next generation of coaches. At the minute high-level coaching in England is just being gatekept.
Not saying a few changes to the cost means we're gonna churn out 6,000 world class coaches but it not going to harm our chances.
My issue with the FA having worked closely with them for a few years is they seem to live in this world where they think they are the greatest organisation on the planet and English football is perfect. It's as if they can't accept when other nations do something better and learn. If someone else is doing something, they almost do the opposite to try and prove a point.
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There's a wider issue here around English coaches. I saw some figures the other day about coaching courses in England compared to other countries.
The A or Pro license course is about £4,000 in England. In Germany it's about £500. In England there's also very limited spots on the courses whereas elsewhere it's a lot more accessible. Caveat to this is I saw it online so could be talking complete b*llocks but it is very difficult for a young coach starting out to get onto that ladder in this country.
We are currently developing some of the best players in the world but we need to work on how we develop the next generation of coaches. At the minute high-level coaching in England is just being gatekept.
Not saying a few changes to the cost means we're gonna churn out 6,000 world class coaches but it not going to harm our chances.
My issue with the FA having worked closely with them for a few years is they seem to live in this world where they think they are the greatest organisation on the planet and English football is perfect. It's as if they can't accept when other nations do something better and learn. If someone else is doing something, they almost do the opposite to try and prove a point.
Could it be that the increased cost in this country is because of increased demand? Lots of coaches from around the world come to England, but not many English go abroad.
England has 92 professional clubs, Germany only has 56. So we should have more supply.
But I bet the % of domestic coaches in charge of Germans clubs is higher across those professional divisions. In the Bundesliga it is 60% domestic and in the premier league 20% domestic. Lots of foreign managers in the championship now too which their won’t be in German 2nd and 3rd tiers.
So I don’t think the pricing is by design but more on our reliance on foreign coaches domestically. But English coaches could try to give themselves more opportunities by looking abroad. Perhaps Brexit makes that harder?
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We have had two foreigners in charge of the England team already and neither of them came near to Ramsey, Venables, Robson and Southgate in terms of progress.
I think we might underestimate our country's coaching talent a bit.
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One of the upshots of the cost/lack of access to coaching courses with the English FA is that a lot of top players and coaches are now choosing to do their qualifications with the FA of Wales as the FAW have built up a really high reputation for the quality of their courses.
Mikel Arteta came through the FAW system, so too did Patrick Vieira, Roberto Martinez and Thierry Henry. It's why Henry was closely linked with the Wales managers job in the summer, and why Vieira at Palace and now Cesc Fabregas at Como both rushed to appoint Osian Roberts to their coaching staff when they had the chance.
So if England could keep their costs really prohibitive, I'm personally all for it.
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I saw someone suggested Darren Moore the other day.
What next, Gary McSheffrey as his assistant?
Two on the one hook
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One of the upshots of the cost/lack of access to coaching courses with the English FA is that a lot of top players and coaches are now choosing to do their qualifications with the FA of Wales as the FAW have built up a really high reputation for the quality of their courses.
Mikel Arteta came through the FAW system, so too did Patrick Vieira, Roberto Martinez and Thierry Henry. It's why Henry was closely linked with the Wales managers job in the summer, and why Vieira at Palace and now Cesc Fabregas at Como both rushed to appoint Osian Roberts to their coaching staff when they had the chance.
So if England could keep their costs really prohibitive, I'm personally all for it.
It can’t be the relative cost that put those people off the English FA route can it? They’re all millionaires! It will put others off though. FAW must simply be better. But why?
Or maybe they all thought they’d give England a wide berth as they’re not English. So they chose the nearest non-England route to avoid the England team ‘baggage’.
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I saw a post the other day. In England the Pro license is about £13000 compared to about £2000 in Spain. The guy who posted it also applied every year for 9 years and was still rejected
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This thread prompted me to have a look at the managers of national football teams around the world (yeah I know, but I'm retired OK?!).
I was amazed to find that there are no fewer than ELEVEN Englishmen plying their trade as managers of national football teams:
Gary White - Chinese Taipei
Ashley Westwood - Hong Kong
Stephen Constantine - Pakistan
Chris Kiwomya - British Virgin Islands
Steve McClaren - Jamaica
Lee Bowyer - Montserrat
Charlie Trout - Puerto Rico
Ricky Hill - Turks & Caicos Islands
Jake Kewley - Kiribati (not members of FIFA)
Darren Bazeley - New Zealand
Terry Connor - Grenada
Every day's a school day...........!
Seems to me Contanstine ‘drew the short straw’ there!
As for Jake Kewley, the man’s living the dream having googled Kiribati.
Apparently (& this is just local folklore) the training pitch is a strip of sand with a pair of coconut trees either end acting as goalposts.
Jake conducts training sessions (& again I refer to local gossip/reports) from a hammock in the shade whist being fanned with palm leaves by the local………locals.
Allegedly Jake has been quoted as saying to a local sports interview team “It’s a funny old game”.