Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: donnyguy on January 22, 2025, 06:35:24 pm
-
https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/2025/january/22/statement-from-the-safety-officer/
-
If a pull out tunnel was a solution before COVID. Why is it no longer?
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
-
It doesn’t help with an idiot on X saying the ref got all he deserved .Do folk not realise that posts are traceable and things like that actionable if not by the FA then by the law .
-
The Club have got to be seen to protect people from others taking the law into their own hands. However, when are we going to see some action to correct the ever declining standard of officiating at this level? It was discussed at the MTO and it’s clear that the management team are becoming increasingly frustrated by some of the decision making we’ve all witnessed.
At some home games this season, the linesmen may as well have not turned up as many of them wait for the ref to decide what the decision should be before they do anything. Many of them are not able to keep up with play so how they can decide on offsides becomes increasingly difficult! Inconsistency is rife throughout games.
People are going to get hacked off - it’s a normal human reaction to, in some cases, total incompetence!
-
It is but not violently like throwing coins aimlessly .That will only make things worse for our club and certainly not further the issue of poor refereeing you rightly point out .There are other channels for that no doubt .
-
Life time ban for sure if caught
-
Life time ban for sure if caught
Let’s hope so.
-
I can understand frustration at the dire officiating and Linesmen who cant or have been instructed not to make a decision until the Ref decides and I'm as frustrated as anybody with it but theres a line that must not be overstepped and this was over.
What was it Grant said at the MTO ok last season but out of the first 9 games we had 8 new first season in the EFL Refs and that to me is out of order from the FA
-
That’s what I miss about Belle Vue. You could stand by the wall & the linesman, standing 2 yards away, could hear every word of encouragement you shouted his way as you cajoled him into making the correct decision.
-
If a pull out tunnel was a solution before COVID. Why is it no longer?
Agree . I posted this just after the Game
The tunnel extension is currently being lengthened to (almost) reach the NE corner flag
Then the officials can go in there and be immune from and protected from any jibes, insults or abuse that might come their way due to the new highly uprated soundproofing that is being added
So if any of them in future turn down 3 penalties ( 2 for wrestling and one for a hand ball so obvious that the opposition fans sympathized with the home team ) and yet allow a clear foul on a home player on half way line which led to the away Team taking a vital lead , it won't matter because their ears and thin skins will be well protected
The only downside for future Refs is they will be deprived of the opportunity to smirk and grin at the Fans trying to show their derision
-
The Club have got to be seen to protect people from others taking the law into their own hands. However, when are we going to see some action to correct the ever declining standard of officiating at this level? It was discussed at the MTO and it’s clear that the management team are becoming increasingly frustrated by some of the decision making we’ve all witnessed.
At some home games this season, the linesmen may as well have not turned up as many of them wait for the ref to decide what the decision should be before they do anything. Many of them are not able to keep up with play so how they can decide on offsides becomes increasingly difficult! Inconsistency is rife throughout games.
People are going to get hacked off - it’s a normal human reaction to, in some cases, total incompetence!
Being angry with officials’ decisions is no excuse for crossing the line into lawlessness and violence.
-
Agree 100 % idm.
I'm one of the worst scorers ( nay I'm the worst ) on Rate the Ref and I was right there above the Tunnel after that game but as you say it is not acceptable to descend into lawlessness and or violence however much the Officials may provoke those reactions
-
Agree 100 % idm.
I'm one of the worst scorers ( nay I'm the worst ) on Rate the Ref and I was right there above the Tunnel after that game but as you say it is not acceptable to descend into lawlessness and or violence however much the Officials may provoke those reactions
You've played the game right? Have you refereed a game at any level? I reffed a Sunday morning match once when a ref couldn't turn up, and it was hard enough!
Without refs, we haven't got a game. How can we encourage people to take up officiating if we continue making villains out of them and victims of this sort of abuse or worse?
I'm as guilty as anyone shouting at the officials but it should never descend into anything else.
-
Agree 100 %
-
Saturday might be interesting a shiny new to the EFL refferee. I reckon the Efl watched Grants comments at the mto
-
Agree 100 % idm.
I'm one of the worst scorers ( nay I'm the worst ) on Rate the Ref and I was right there above the Tunnel after that game but as you say it is not acceptable to descend into lawlessness and or violence however much the Officials may provoke those reactions
You've played the game right? Have you refereed a game at any level? I reffed a Sunday morning match once when a ref couldn't turn up, and it was hard enough!
Without refs, we haven't got a game. How can we encourage people to take up officiating if we continue making villains out of them and victims of this sort of abuse or worse?
I'm as guilty as anyone shouting at the officials but it should never descend into anything else.
Maybe the head of referees should be getting a better grip on the situation. The standard of referees is pretty poor and seems to be getting worse. There is zero consistency from week to week. Surely the management of the referees can see this? We can't all be wrong, can we? It isn't just Rovers fans, we hear it every week from fans up and down the country.
-
Agree 100 % idm.
I'm one of the worst scorers ( nay I'm the worst ) on Rate the Ref and I was right there above the Tunnel after that game but as you say it is not acceptable to descend into lawlessness and or violence however much the Officials may provoke those reactions
You've played the game right? Have you refereed a game at any level? I reffed a Sunday morning match once when a ref couldn't turn up, and it was hard enough!
Without refs, we have 't got a game. How can we encourage people to take up officiating if we continue making villains out of them and victims of this sort of abuse or worse?
I'm as guilty as anyone shouting at the officials but it should never descend into anything else.
Maybe the head of referees should be getting a better grip on the situation. The standard of referees is pretty poor and seems to be getting worse. There is zero consistency from week to week. Surely the management of the referees can see this? We can't all be wrong, can we? It isn't just Rovers fans, we hear it every week from fans up and down the country.
Ultimately though the problem isn't referees. The problem is people who can't control their emotions.
-
No, it’s both!
-
Couldn’t disagree more.
Poor officials deserve criticism, always have and always will.
Violence against them, nope. Fans need to control their frustrations, or we won’t have any officials and then we have no football..
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
is ok saying this but at times fans also don’t know the laws either
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
Unfortunately, the requirement for a referee to be neutral and/or act in an impartial manner doesn’t appear anywhere in the FA’s Laws of the Game.…..
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee
-
Here's something novel.
How about the Referees Assessor ( who I believe attends every game ) publishing their findings after every game
I have seen these in the past and they were very illuminating for sure. They would be especially useful to the Ref and his Officials and maybe for people like me to pick over
On the downside though some will confirm how bad certain decisions had been in individual matches and of course would not alter those decisions
Last Season Wolves were apologized to "the most" following VAR interventions. I think they were denied 14 points by having decisions wrongly adjudged and Howard Webb apologized time and again. They did not get the Points back and so the danger with Assessors report is it will merely give advice , coaching etc to the Ref for the future.
VAR also get several looks at incidents and often get for example , Penalty calls wrong , so I and others must accept with one look , often from way too far away to make a correct call
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
is ok saying this but at times fans also don’t know the laws either
I suspect many don’t. I qualified as a ref 30 ish years ago but that lapsed after a couple of years as I didn’t have the time to dedicate to it. Some laws have changed particularly offside, but many won’t have. How many realise that “attempting to” kick, trip etc an opponent is (or was.?) the same offence as actually making contact?
Making contact itself isn’t necessarily a foul, so when pundits say “ there was contact therefore it’s a penalty” etc really gets my goat..
-
Couldn’t disagree more.
Poor officials deserve criticism, always have and always will.
Violence against them, nope. Fans need to control their frustrations, or we won’t have any officials and then we have no football..
What actual violence though?
A few hurty words and a plastic bottle thrown ?
Hardly the battle of stalingrad is it.
-
Donnywolf ..that suggestion is excellent and more accountability within the refereeing authority is needed.Why is every football-related authority under pressure? I think it starts at the top and the historic and unresolved corruption in FIFA has seeped
down into every fabric of our game. Lack of honesty has bred opaque decision-making processes,political appointments and incompetent management throughout. Football authority in this country needs an independent watchdog.Athletics and Cycling waited until scandal brought universal condemnation and alienated the public.Football is going thst way .
ointments and
-
I've often wondered about these part time amateur refs we get in the lower leagues, I wonder if any actually do have bets on the matches they ref?
Because some of the decisions I've seen can't all be down to incompetence.
-
Well if managers and players cut out the attempts at cheating that might see a glimmer of hope that refs will improve.
We all know that's not going to happen though
-
Couldn’t disagree more.
Poor officials deserve criticism, always have and always will.
Violence against them, nope. Fans need to control their frustrations, or we won’t have any officials and then we have no football..
What actual violence though?
A few hurty words and a plastic bottle thrown ?
Hardly the battle of stalingrad is it.
It’s not the point, it’s what it might lead to..
Words should be enough, or are you actually condoning violence towards officials.?
What if the club has a points deduction.? Could make a huge difference where we finish the season.
-
Couldn’t disagree more.
Poor officials deserve criticism, always have and always will.
Violence against them, nope. Fans need to control their frustrations, or we won’t have any officials and then we have no football..
What actual violence though?
A few hurty words and a plastic bottle thrown ?
Hardly the battle of stalingrad is it.
It’s not the point, it’s what it might lead to..
Words should be enough, or are you actually condoning violence towards officials.?
What if the club has a points deduction.? Could make a huge difference where we finish the season.
Of course I don't condone actual violence, but there wasn't any was there?
-
Throwing a bottle !!!!
-
Damn ... Well all have to go topless now :ohmy:
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
Unfortunately, the requirement for a referee to be neutral and/or act in an impartial manner doesn’t appear anywhere in the FA’s Laws of the Game.…..
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee
People who are appointed to uphold rules and laws are there to do just that. Is that not obvious to you?
-
Well if managers and players cut out the attempts at cheating that might see a glimmer of hope that refs will improve.
We all know that's not going to happen though
Couldn’t agree more! Well said, ravenrover! :)
-
Ref was still a feckless tw@t though.
-
Yes , agree and I posted this at the time
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=293171.0#msg1365049
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
Unfortunately, the requirement for a referee to be neutral and/or act in an impartial manner doesn’t appear anywhere in the FA’s Laws of the Game.…..
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee
People who are appointed to uphold rules and laws are there to do just that. Is that not obvious to you?
From the rules of Rugby Union....
Duties of the referee during a match
6.5
a. The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match. The referee must apply the laws of the game fairly in every match.
b. The referee keeps the time. However, the match organiser may appoint a time-keeper who will signify the end of each half.
c. The referee keeps the score.
There is no similar requirement for impartiality within the rules of refereeing a football match. Is that not obvious to you?
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
Unfortunately, the requirement for a referee to be neutral and/or act in an impartial manner doesn’t appear anywhere in the FA’s Laws of the Game.…..
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee
People who are appointed to uphold rules and laws are there to do just that. Is that not obvious to you?
From the rules of Rugby Union....
Duties of the referee during a match
6.5
a. The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match. The referee must apply the laws of the game fairly in every match.
b. The referee keeps the time. However, the match organiser may appoint a time-keeper who will signify the end of each half.
c. The referee keeps the score.
There is no similar requirement for impartiality within the rules of refereeing a football match. Is that not obvious to you?
You cannot really believe that the referee of a football match has no obligation to be impartial do you? Don't you think that if it were so, the need to specify it in the Laws of the Game would have been suitably amended a long time ago? If you don't enforce rules fairly you aren't enforcing them. Perhaps this needs to be spelled out to Rugby Union officials, but using it as some kind of legal precedent to indicate a fundamental flaw in the rules of some other sport proves nothing.
If you refer to the Laws of the Game and "The Referee" which is at Law 5 it says:
1. The authority of the referee
Each match is controlled by a referee who has full authority to enforce the Laws of the Game in connection with the match.
2. Decisions of the referee
Decisions will be made to the best of the referee's ability according to the Laws of the Game and the 'spirit of the game' and will be based on the opinion of the referee who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the Laws of the Game.
The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. The decisions of the referee, and all other match officials, must always be respected.
and...
3. Powers and duties
The referee:
-enforces the Laws of the Game
-controls the match in cooperation with the other match officials
-acts as timekeeper, keeps a record of the match and provides the appropriate authorities with a match report, including information on disciplinary action and any other incidents that occurred before, during or after the match
-supervises and/or indicates the restart of play
ADVANTAGE
-allows play to continue when an offence occurs and the non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that time or within a few seconds
DISCIPLINARY ACTION
-punishes the more serious offence, in terms of sanction, restart, physical severity and tactical impact, when more than one offence occurs at the same time
-takes disciplinary action against players guilty of cautionable and sending-off offences
-has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including penalties (penalty shoot-out)). If, before entering the field of play at the start of the match, a player commits a sending-off offence, the referee has the authority to prevent the player taking part in the match (see Law 3.6); the referee will report any other misconduct
-has the power to show yellow or red cards and, where competition rules permit, temporarily dismiss a player, from entering the field of play at the start of the match until after the match has ended, including during the half-time interval, extra time and penalties (penalty shoot-out).
-takes action against team officials who fail to act in a responsible manner and warns or shows a yellow card for a caution or a red card for a sending-off from the field of play and its immediate surrounds, including the technical area; if the offender cannot be identified, the senior coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction. A medical team official who commits a sending-off offence may remain if the team has no other medical person available, and act if a player needs medical attention
-acts on the advice of other match officials regarding incidents that the referee has not seen".
I cannot reduce this to words of one syllable, but it is implicit that rules are not rules if they are not enforced fairly. This is the way that all Rules and the Law itself works.
If you really believe that you have uncovered a flaw in the Laws of the Game I suggest you write to the FA and tell them they have got it wrong. I would be very interested to hear what they tell you.
-
Agree 100 % idm.
I'm one of the worst scorers ( nay I'm the worst ) on Rate the Ref and I was right there above the Tunnel after that game but as you say it is not acceptable to descend into lawlessness and or violence however much the Officials may provoke those reactions
You've played the game right? Have you refereed a game at any level? I reffed a Sunday morning match once when a ref couldn't turn up, and it was hard enough!
Without refs, we haven't got a game. How can we encourage people to take up officiating if we continue making villains out of them and victims of this sort of abuse or worse?
I'm as guilty as anyone shouting at the officials but it should never descend into anything else.
Maybe the head of referees should be getting a better grip on the situation. The standard of referees is pretty poor and seems to be getting worse. There is zero consistency from week to week. Surely the management of the referees can see this? We can't all be wrong, can we? It isn't just Rovers fans, we hear it every week from fans up and down the country.
It's the natural consequence when referees are faced with treatment of this kind.
How many potentially good refs will say to themselves 'sod this for a lark, it's not worth this hassle', leaving us with the dregs we get that no level of referee management can do anything about?
-
Easy way to stop it get referees and Lino's that know what they are doing and act neutral :)
Unfortunately, the requirement for a referee to be neutral and/or act in an impartial manner doesn’t appear anywhere in the FA’s Laws of the Game.…..
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-5---the-referee
People who are appointed to uphold rules and laws are there to do just that. Is that not obvious to you?
From the rules of Rugby Union....
Duties of the referee during a match
6.5
a. The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match. The referee must apply the laws of the game fairly in every match.
b. The referee keeps the time. However, the match organiser may appoint a time-keeper who will signify the end of each half.
c. The referee keeps the score.
There is no similar requirement for impartiality within the rules of refereeing a football match. Is that not obvious to you?
You cannot really believe that the referee of a football match has no obligation to be impartial do you? Don't you think that if it were so, the need to specify it in the Laws of the Game would have been suitably amended a long time ago? If you don't enforce rules fairly you aren't enforcing them. Perhaps this needs to be spelled out to Rugby Union officials, but using it as some kind of legal precedent to indicate a fundamental flaw in the rules of some other sport proves nothing.
If you refer to the Laws of the Game and "The Referee" which is at Law 5 it says:
1. The authority of the referee
Each match is controlled by a referee who has full authority to enforce the Laws of the Game in connection with the match.
2. Decisions of the referee
Decisions will be made to the best of the referee's ability according to the Laws of the Game and the 'spirit of the game' and will be based on the opinion of the referee who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the Laws of the Game.
The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. The decisions of the referee, and all other match officials, must always be respected.
and...
3. Powers and duties
The referee:
-enforces the Laws of the Game
-controls the match in cooperation with the other match officials
-acts as timekeeper, keeps a record of the match and provides the appropriate authorities with a match report, including information on disciplinary action and any other incidents that occurred before, during or after the match
-supervises and/or indicates the restart of play
ADVANTAGE
-allows play to continue when an offence occurs and the non-offending team will benefit from the advantage and penalises the offence if the anticipated advantage does not ensue at that time or within a few seconds
DISCIPLINARY ACTION
-punishes the more serious offence, in terms of sanction, restart, physical severity and tactical impact, when more than one offence occurs at the same time
-takes disciplinary action against players guilty of cautionable and sending-off offences
-has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including penalties (penalty shoot-out)). If, before entering the field of play at the start of the match, a player commits a sending-off offence, the referee has the authority to prevent the player taking part in the match (see Law 3.6); the referee will report any other misconduct
-has the power to show yellow or red cards and, where competition rules permit, temporarily dismiss a player, from entering the field of play at the start of the match until after the match has ended, including during the half-time interval, extra time and penalties (penalty shoot-out).
-takes action against team officials who fail to act in a responsible manner and warns or shows a yellow card for a caution or a red card for a sending-off from the field of play and its immediate surrounds, including the technical area; if the offender cannot be identified, the senior coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction. A medical team official who commits a sending-off offence may remain if the team has no other medical person available, and act if a player needs medical attention
-acts on the advice of other match officials regarding incidents that the referee has not seen".
I cannot reduce this to words of one syllable, but it is implicit that rules are not rules if they are not enforced fairly. This is the way that all Rules and the Law itself works.
If you really believe that you have uncovered a flaw in the Laws of the Game I suggest you write to the FA and tell them they have got it wrong. I would be very interested to hear what they tell you.
So, you quoted from the link I already posted. Yet you clearly miss the point. If you think referees are required, by the rules, to be impartial without that requirement being stated in those rules, (as they are in other sports), why then do we see so many refs, at all levels, not applying the rules equally?
-
I don’t think they are biased or imbalanced, just miss lots of things. Perhaps it’s their positioning - I don’t know - but they can only give what they see.
However the one yesterday must have been getting confused with the RL markings on the pitch, especially where ironside was involved.