Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Upton Rover on February 15, 2025, 02:26:26 pm
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It’s typical how a team puts in a fantastic performance against a premiership team in the cup, then it affects their performance in the league, I just hope we can quickly get rid of this hangover sooner rather than later. I must say that the pitch didn’t suit our type of football, never seen it looking so poor, definitely not a passing game today. Need to impton 3 straight defeats
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Is our type of football a passing game? I’m not sure what type of football we play. I don’t think the players or McCann do either beyond give it to Moly and hope for a moment of magic.
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Disagree I'm afraid. If that performance was a one off then it can be labelled a hangover however that performance was terrible and unfortunately what we've been used to for many matches. Several points mentioned in lucky pint ring true. The insistence on 4231 and we play like we're 3 0 up strolling around and meaningless passes
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It's so much more than just an isolated performance this though unfortunately, the team has no plan or structure,no attacking patterns or style of play it's one dimensionsal.. it has been for a year and half generally except for a 10 game run at the end of last season it's been pretty poor to be honest, our GD is basically level that tells a bigger and more confronting reality - that we just aren't that good, we are average in an average league! We have great attacking options at this level but they don't produce any output, why? The blame lays at the managers door for me.
I like the optimism but look at the numbers they don't lie... Sadly this season looks like petering out into a non event.
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All changed after 20 mins when McCann changed the tactics. We were dominant by playing through the 3rds then we started going long. Defeat squarely down to McCann today!
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When are we going to stop all this tippy tappy play out from the back, when we scored we went long and could have got us out of jail, and to keep subbing Joe Ironside OK he didn't win many against the man mountain but it's the second balls that you win when the defender can't pick out a team mate absolutely frustrating
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That was poor from both sides. We were dreadful. The one moment of quality brought the goal. Definitely won’t be champions
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That was poor today. Very disappointing.
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That was poor from both sides. We were dreadful. The one moment of quality brought the goal. Definitely won’t be champions
I thought the goal was lucky, looked to me like it went in off Street’s shoulder. Good ball in, though.
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Morcambe now a don’t lose game
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We aren’t getting top 3, not a chance.
Our record against the teams around us isn’t good enough for that.
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That was utter garbage against a very average and limited team. The defending for the second goal was utterly abysmal. I hate to say it because there’s such a long way still to go, but we aren’t looking like a team that’s finishing top 3. Indeed, it’s still in the balance whether we make the playoffs.
Still lots of time to get out of this mess, but it’s getting harder with each game that passes where we don’t pick up points. Needless to say Tuesday and next Saturday are massive and 4 points is the absolute minimum requirement.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
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Worst performance of the season by a mile, all of them were just off it and giving the ball away consistently.
Take nothing away from Grimsby, best team on the day and deserved the 3 points, would’ve been daylight robbery had we snatched a point at the end.
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Without many naturally gifted players we are entitled to expect more effort as it follows that few of them are able to beat their opposite numbers on pure skill. Then they need to be able to pass accurately and to do so they often they need more time than they are allowed.
Today, real effort did not come until we got the goal back, so it follows that they were not going all out before then. This was evidence that they can increase their work rate and provides grounds for criticism.
In the season so far we’ve failed to get the better of most of the teams that are our direct rivals and we just have to improve on that front.
McCann has failed to motivate them when it matters and the current trend is not up.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
McCann is not a bad coach, not having that. But I don't think we have the players still for this league. We're trying to be better than we are technically. I like Ironside and sharp but we've seen quite a few strikers now do a better job at our place than them.
I do think we looked a little tired today though, that extra game does make a difference.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
McCann is not a bad coach, not having that. But I don't think we have the players still for this league. We're trying to be better than we are technically. I like Ironside and sharp but we've seen quite a few strikers now do a better job at our place than them.
I do think we looked a little tired today though, that extra game does make a difference.
McCann is a manager isn’t he. He’s not really a coach. He’s a good manager but in terms of real out and out coaching, his teams aren’t as good as he is at managing. He’s more of a Warnock than a Sean O’Driscoll.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
McCann is not a bad coach, not having that. But I don't think we have the players still for this league. We're trying to be better than we are technically. I like Ironside and sharp but we've seen quite a few strikers now do a better job at our place than them.
I do think we looked a little tired today though, that extra game does make a difference.
I agree with GazLaz whatever way you dress it up McCann is the coach / manager and the way he sets the team up and their patterns of play are down to him, he takes responsibility for the overall style the team adopts, he has consistently persisted with failing signings like Gibson and Clifton that offer nothing in the final 3rd, people need to wake up in my opinion and apart from a run of ridiculous wins at the end of last season overall the product McCann puts out on the pitch has been poor he has been backed financially this season so there is no excuse, time to produce or let's move on... Sadly I see this season slipping into obscurity I can't see us making the playoffs never mind top 3 if we continue this insipid formation and tactics.
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We went into the play offs last season like an absolute train and still lost. If we do make the play offs this season, it is hard to imagine we will do so on a consistently strong run of form. We have been putting in consistently good performances rarely this season. Results aside, we are all over the place in terms of performance.
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Disagree I'm afraid. If that performance was a one off then it can be labelled a hangover however that performance was terrible and unfortunately what we've been used to for many matches. Several points mentioned in lucky pint ring true. The insistence on 4231 and we play like we're 3 0 up strolling around and meaningless passes
unlike last season where we came from behind everyone and build up momentum with additional players coming the complete opposite has happened this time ,McCann has a real job on his hands getting these young loans providing the answers at this stage in the run in ..
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We went into the play offs last season like an absolute train and still lost. If we do make the play offs this season, it is hard to imagine we will do so on a consistently strong run of form. We have been putting in consistently good performances rarely this season. Results aside, we are all over the place in terms of performance.
Just how we contrived to lose that 2nd leg play off against a poor Crewe side after leading 2-0 from the away leg is still utterly incomprehensible to me, I still suffer PTSD from that event at home games! But the sentiment is relevant here, McCann doesn't inspire confidence when it comes to big game management, in play adaptation of tactics. I think this is playing out in front of our eyes this season.
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Crewe had figured out by the second leg how we play and then stopped us playing. That was a really bad game to watch as we obviously didn't have another plan. That lot of penalties as bad as those at Charlton. Adelakun should have given up professional sport as a career after that horror show of an attempt.
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Crewe had figured out by the second leg how we play and then stopped us playing. That was a really bad game to watch as we obviously didn't have another plan. That lot of penalties as bad as those at Charlton. Adelakun should have given up professional sport as a career after that horror show of an attempt.
It was hard watching, don't want to change subject but I didn't remember their keeper even making a save that night either? Even though it was 0-2 so early. Sound familiar? Lack of threat and goals.
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Is our type of football a passing game? I’m not sure what type of football we play. I don’t think the players or McCann do either beyond give it to Moly and hope for a moment of magic.
I would like to think it was a passing game, but I’m like you unsure what type we do play. If you look at todays stats we made 14 tackles and won 9 of them however on all 9 won we gave 8 of them away within 2 touches, it’s unbalivable that we were winning a tackle every 10mins, we never get stuck in. we made 435 passes to their 274 however both teams had similar figures for forward passes, so to me we are playing to much tippy happy football in our own half.
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A few basic problems.
We have too many passes when getting into decent areas, example one today where maxwell got to the edge of the area and could have taken a shot but chose to pass it wide.
We have too many crosses from the wide areas that are floated in. Too many good tower centre backs so we get nothing.
We are too slow getting the ball into the attacking areas, allowing opposition to get behind ball.
We are too predictable particularly when playing at home.
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We have to win the next two game. No ifs, buts or maybes.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
Do you want to change the coach?
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Crewe had figured out by the second leg how we play and then stopped us playing. That was a really bad game to watch as we obviously didn't have another plan. That lot of penalties as bad as those at Charlton. Adelakun should have given up professional sport as a career after that horror show of an attempt.
That’s nonsense!
We won 10 games on the bounce, if it was just as simple as working out how we play then it would have happened a long time before that.
We just didn’t turn up on the day
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
Do you want to change the coach?
He doesn’t rate our coach and he doesn’t rate the vast majority of our players.
Terribly disappointing today. I felt really low after the game and I haven’t recovered yet.
The players let down themselves and the fans today. Not enough fight, not enough determination and unfortunately not enough quality either.
Too often we blow it in front of a big away support against local rivals, and that hurts.
I’ll be at Morecambe on Tuesday and we must deliver a convincing win.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
Do you want to change the coach?
He doesn’t rate our coach and he doesn’t rate the vast majority of our players.
Terribly disappointing today. I felt really low after the game and I haven’t recovered yet.
The players let down themselves and the fans today. Not enough fight, not enough determination and unfortunately not enough quality either.
Too often we blow it in front of a big away support against local rivals, and that hurts.
I’ll be at Morecambe on Tuesday and we must deliver a convincing win.
If you read it, he’s actually said he thinks GM is a good manager. He’s just called into question how the team is coached.
In terms of players, there aren’t many pulling up too many trees at the moment, is there? Collectively we look like a team that’s going to concede goals every match and it’s rare we turn it around after conceding first. A couple of wins in the recent 4 game run (Harrogate in particular) masked over a few of the problems a lot of fans on here have been pointing out all season.
Trying to stay positive but I’d be amazed if we finish in the top 3. No disrespect to Grimsby, but they are a team that had lost as many as they’d won before yesterday and they were 3/1 to win that game. We just never showed up until the 85th minute. We capitulated at Chesterfield.
It just doesn’t feel like a promotion winning team.
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
Do you want to change the coach?
He doesn’t rate our coach and he doesn’t rate the vast majority of our players.
Terribly disappointing today. I felt really low after the game and I haven’t recovered yet.
The players let down themselves and the fans today. Not enough fight, not enough determination and unfortunately not enough quality either.
Too often we blow it in front of a big away support against local rivals, and that hurts.
I’ll be at Morecambe on Tuesday and we must deliver a convincing win.
Do you speak for me now? As I have said before and as colincramb alluded to, Grant is a manager in the traditional sense. He knows how to build a good spirit, get everyone mulling in the same direction, man manage, and make a club stable etc etc etc. I think him and his coaching team aren’t the best at the level when it comes to actually putting tactics, shape and systems together on the training pitch. Neither was Alex Ferguson and his staff at times by the was so there is more involved in getting results than pure coaching.
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Talking of hangovers, I don’t remember waking up after a game as pissed off as a I still am this morning.
We were absolutely awful.
The recruitment is still the biggest thing that’s pissing me off. We were told time and again about the processes involved and work that goes into signing players (to win the league no less).
I genuinely don’t think one player has improved last years team, it’s really disappointing.
To add, Street has been good to be fair to him.
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Talking of hangovers, I don’t remember waking up after a game as pissed off as a I still am this morning.
We were absolutely awful.
The recruitment is still the biggest thing that’s pissing me off. We were told time and again about the processes involved and work that goes into signing players (to win the league no less).
I genuinely don’t think one player has improved last years team, it’s really disappointing.
You can have all the processes you like, if they are not very good ones they are no use to anyone. It’s the same old debate. If we are to ever punch above our weight again the whole structure of the club needs modernising. The manager led model is a thing of the past.
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I sincerely hope that someone within the Club has learned something from this season, particularly with the choice of loans. Too many first time loans thrown together to supposedly make us into a top 3 side doesn’t appear to be working.
Last season we did much better, so why the change? Maybe because the manager pursued his mantra that he wanted 2 players for every position? That must have swallowed up a lot of his budget and then not enough in the kitty to put the ‘icing on the cake’.
For me, we’ve not got the midfield sorted from even before day 1. Westbrooke and Close being signed before the season kicked off was an unfathomable decision. Neither have hardly played. I think GM has a blind spot when it comes to midfield.
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Westbrooke last completed 90 minutes for us on 11 November 2023 in the 2-0 away defeat to AFC Wimbledon.
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Talking of hangovers, I don’t remember waking up after a game as pissed off as a I still am this morning.
We were absolutely awful.
The recruitment is still the biggest thing that’s pissing me off. We were told time and again about the processes involved and work that goes into signing players (to win the league no less).
I genuinely don’t think one player has improved last years team, it’s really disappointing.
You can have all the processes you like, if they are not very good ones they are no use to anyone. It’s the same old debate. If we are to ever punch above our weight again the whole structure of the club needs modernising. The manager led model is a thing of the past.
We did try that for 6 months to be fair to the club, who knew Coppinger wasn't the Director of Football we required at that time...
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Each time we lose, we seem to go round in circles looking beyond the performance, by looking at the bigger picture, recruitment, budgets, club structure etc., when really some of the answers are much simpler and basic.
However, we recruit, whichever players are picked in whatever formation, they should be able to produce better than what we saw for am hour yesterday.
To accumulate the amount of points we have, we must have done some things right, some of the time. Those players are capable of better. There's some basic things that just went out of the window and clearly, McCann has got to get to the bottom of it and sort it out quickly.
Of course, we don't see what goes on in training and in the dressing room but McCann however we dress it up, is responsible, so we are right to question why there's a repetition of wheels falling off during games. If we believe he's a good manager, he will get to the bottom of it, as whatever personnel you put into that team, the drop off in performance levels is unacceptable.
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A few posters on the thread have mentioned the Crewe play off game and how poor we were. I have spent this morning asking myself what has improved since then? What has?
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Two issues I suggest.
The first is the continued belief from the manager that the squad he has assembled can play 4-3-3. It’s not working and big gaps are appearing in midfield all too often which are exploited by the opposition. I would persist with 3-5-2 given the players capabilities.
The second is players out of position which is affecting their own performance. Just as one example was the free kick conceded by Rob Street just before half time in the match with Palace down by the corner flag. Not a criticism of Street, it was a typical forwards challenge but Street shouldn’t be coming that deep, he needs to be used in his best position playing off the shoulder of the last defender.
There is a thread running about recent signings and what if anything they’ve brought to the squad but some of the disappointment is down to not playing to their strengths.
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Two issues I suggest.
The first is the continued belief from the manager that the squad he has assembled can play 4-3-3. It’s not working and big gaps are appearing in midfield all too often which are exploited by the opposition. I would persist with 3-5-2 given the players capabilities.
The second is players out of position which is affecting their own performance. Just as one example was the free kick conceded by Rob Street just before half time in the match with Palace down by the corner flag. Not a criticism of Street, it was a typical forwards challenge but Street shouldn’t be coming that deep, he needs to be used in his best position playing off the shoulder of the last defender.
There is a thread running about recent signings and what if anything they’ve brought to the squad but some of the disappointment is down to not playing to their strengths.
We actually changed to a 3-4-3 for the last 15 mins or so
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I sincerely hope that someone within the Club has learned something from this season, particularly with the choice of loans. Too many first time loans thrown together to supposedly make us into a top 3 side doesn’t appear to be working.
Last season we did much better, so why the change? Maybe because the manager pursued his mantra that he wanted 2 players for every position? That must have swallowed up a lot of his budget and then not enough in the kitty to put the ‘icing on the cake’.
For me, we’ve not got the midfield sorted from even before day 1. Westbrooke and Close being signed before the season kicked off was an unfathomable decision. Neither have hardly played. I think GM has a blind spot when it comes to midfield.
I’ve said about the first time loans for years. For every she decent one you get you get two or three bad ones. I’d just mandate not signing them at all.
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To me, it doesn't matter what formation we play, if the players don't have the discipline to stick to it.
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Not sure it was an FA Cup hangover. We’ve looked laboured and easily stopped in most games at home this season. How we still haven’t found a way of playing well by February is mind boggling.
Our response to going behind is mostly pathetic. If you started watching the game at 0-1 or 0-2 yesterday you wouldn’t believe we were a team “attempting” to get back into it. It just never looked likely apart from a little flurry at the end when we got desperate.
Big ask to get into the automatics now IMO. We’re going to have to buck the trend of inconsistency that has blighted us this season and go on a run. How has it come to this with the money that’s been spent and the players that have been brought in?
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The first 15min was ok but we are so predictable that teams adjust to how we play so easily. The way the team is coached is poor.
Do you want to change the coach?
He doesn’t rate our coach and he doesn’t rate the vast majority of our players.
Terribly disappointing today. I felt really low after the game and I haven’t recovered yet.
The players let down themselves and the fans today. Not enough fight, not enough determination and unfortunately not enough quality either.
Too often we blow it in front of a big away support against local rivals, and that hurts.
I’ll be at Morecambe on Tuesday and we must deliver a convincing win.
Do you speak for me now? As I have said before and as colincramb alluded to, Grant is a manager in the traditional sense. He knows how to build a good spirit, get everyone mulling in the same direction, man manage, and make a club stable etc etc etc. I think him and his coaching team aren’t the best at the level when it comes to actually putting tactics, shape and systems together on the training pitch. Neither was Alex Ferguson and his staff at times by the was so there is more involved in getting results than pure coaching.
Sorry to drag this out ....... would you change the coach/manager?
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Not a cup hang over at all ,He has not know his best team all season or formation when it changes every week how can the players become consistant or fluid in a style of play that changes every week
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Not a cup hang over at all ,He has not know his best team all season or formation when it changes every week how can the players become consentant or fluid in a style of play that changes every week
Perhaps he's making the same mistake as Schofield made in not recognising that the players he has aren't good enough to play his chosen style.