Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on February 16, 2025, 02:14:40 pm
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After yesterdays capitulation we are fast looking like we are coming to what could be the cross roads of the season, and this game against a side who had a moral boosting win yesterday towards their quest of avoiding relegation, while we lick our wounds after again being brushed aside by a team that looked to want it more and willing to bust a gut to get a result, while we came up with another insipid performance looking like we thought all we had to do was turn up.
Teams cobbled together for next to nothing in money terms compared to ourselves have repeatedly over the last few seasons rolled us over by just being competitive, strong and, its got to be said more savvy in the art of controlling a game and upsetting our rhythm, which our young loanees have failed to overcome after being used to the pit pat from you to me game played in u21s football, and in many cases are the reason they are here to learn a lot of the time at our expense.
Well to me they have to learn quickly, some probably on the bus going over to Morecambe or our ambition will fall away with them.
What team we put out I leave to the manager, but would go with few changes myself, Probably Broadbent in unless any injuries alter the team or tactics, all are better than they showed v Grimsby and need to show it. Morecambe have a home record of 3 wins, 3 draws, and 8 losses and are second bottom of the league and should be a team we can go after, and when we do play on the front foot we are better ourselves and need to play that way, we are not a team that sets out to pinch games.
Adams their manager has a personality that opposing supporters don't exactly like, but is very good at working and getting the best out of his sides, and will be organised and well informed about our failings and will try to exploit them, what spectacle is performed for the supporters the last thing on his mind, the only thing winning any way possible.
How much do you put on this game? we desperately need a win to keep any pressure on the clubs around us, can we get a result?
Would you make changes?
Will we try to tweak our tactics slightly?
Would you have another man in midfield?
Lots to discuss lots to talk about, please have your say.
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If Grant is going 1 up front id start with Street. Id just like us to go 3-5-2 though.
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If Grant is going 1 up front id start with Street. Id just like us to go 3-5-2 though.
We’re crying out for that formation Prez. Not sure why Grant can’t see that. Although not sure what formation we played on Saturday. 5-0-5 based on our lack of midfield control.
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Similar but start with Street and Ironside with mols allowed to float between midfield/attack as game allows/dictates.
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If Grant is going 1 up front id start with Street. Id just like us to go 3-5-2 though.
We’re crying out for that formation Prez. Not sure why Grant can’t see that. Although not sure what formation we played on Saturday. 5-0-5 based on our lack of midfield control.
We ended up yesterday with a midfield 4 of Sterry, Broadbent, Kelly and Senior
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If Grant is going 1 up front id start with Street. Id just like us to go 3-5-2 though.
We’re crying out for that formation Prez. Not sure why Grant can’t see that. Although not sure what formation we played on Saturday. 5-0-5 based on our lack of midfield control.
We ended up yesterday with a midfield 4 of Sterry, Broadbent, Kelly and Senior
Two full backs, a donkey and a pre-pubescent teen. Just what we needed to dominate in there.
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Street I recall was brought in as a centre forward with Billy and Joe lacking the pace to get in behind teams, but he hasn't been given the opportunity to shine there. It's time we had that mobility up front whether that's in a two is a different matter.
I don't think Street offers enough out wide to make that much if a difference and Hurst, Gibson, Ennis and Yeboah have all flattered to deceive and offered little to no end product. So maybe Grant should go to a 4-3-1-2 and have Molls drifting and the front two work the channels more but then leaves an option or two in the box.
The three midfielders we always seem to better with cloggers in there than natural ball players.
But a settled team from the forward part is something we certainly need...I think Ironsides form has been stop start because that's how his minutes have gone. Maybe keeping Miller would have been a better option than Billy?
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Their home form has picked up recently but remain second worst home record in League Two and no side has conceded more at home.
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I like what I've seen of Street, has pace and shows the desire to beat his man. Several times yesterday he chased balls against a centre back that he had no right to win but got there first and made something of it.
I too would like to see him up top alongside Joe or Billy.
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Street I recall was brought in as a centre forward with Billy and Joe lacking the pace to get in behind teams, but he hasn't been given the opportunity to shine there. It's time we had that mobility up front whether that's in a two is a different matter.
I don't think Street offers enough out wide to make that much if a difference and Hurst, Gibson, Ennis and Yeboah have all flattered to deceive and offered little to no end product. So maybe Grant should go to a 4-3-1-2 and have Molls drifting and the front two work the channels more but then leaves an option or two in the box.
The three midfielders we always seem to better with cloggers in there than natural ball players.
But a settled team from the forward part is something we certainly need...I think Ironsides form has been stop start because that's how his minutes have gone. Maybe keeping Miller would have been a better option than Billy?
Totally agree cr except for your last line.
The way Grant plays miller would have been a lone striker or wide. Billy is suffering at present because he is not getting the service, in the main he has been played as lone central striker up against generally 2 six foot plus centre backs.
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If Maxwell is injured as well as McGrath we can’t play 3-5-2 as we don’t have the personnel.
Ennis can’t play left wing back as he’s right footed and Molyneux is wasted there.
I like Senior, but he isn’t really a wing back. Even you did put him there then we don’t have enough fit centre halves because we handed Richard Wood a sentimental contract because we were scared we couldn’t get anyone better (we could have).
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We can play 3 5 2
TSL
Olowu. Anderson Senior
Sterry. Bailey. Crew. Nixon
Molyneux
Ironside. Street
Depending if McGrath and Maxwell are fit
If McGrath is and Maxwell isn’t I’d still play Nixon
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Isn’t Nixon a right back?
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He can play on both flanks he did it last year he’s attacking and if Maxwell is not fit he could do a job in that position
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But then the only wide player on the left side would be right footed
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A right footed.player crossing from the left with his weaker foot might put better crosses in than we get at present
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Just watched the highlights of their weekend win over Accrington and the pitch looked like a mudbath. Thankfully no rain in coming days, but the pitch isn't one for pretty football.
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After watching Saturday's game and Some performances lately i think it's time for Bailey to be dropped and see if it gives him a spark Like Mols and Gibson got for theres. He maybe captain but doesn't mean you should be excluded from being dropped due to performances. i wasn't impressed with the lack of leadership saturday to get the lads going again. McCann is falling into the habit where managers are relying on the same players regardless of form
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After watching Saturday's game and Some performances lately i think it's time for Bailey to be dropped and see if it gives him a spark Like Mols and Gibson got for theres. He maybe captain but doesn't mean you should be excluded from being dropped due to performances. i wasn't impressed with the lack of leadership saturday to get the lads going again. McCann is falling into the habit where managers are relying on the same players regardless of form
Bailey was excellent when he dropped to the right of a three on Saturday
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After watching Saturday's game and Some performances lately i think it's time for Bailey to be dropped and see if it gives him a spark Like Mols and Gibson got for theres. He maybe captain but doesn't mean you should be excluded from being dropped due to performances. i wasn't impressed with the lack of leadership saturday to get the lads going again. McCann is falling into the habit where managers are relying on the same players regardless of form
Bailey was excellent when he dropped to the right of a three on Saturday
I like him in there, gives us a ball player from deep and means we don't need to drop a central defensive midfielder in too deep so can stay nice and compact there. I'd start Bailey with Anderson and Olowu as a back three tomorrow.
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I think dropping Bailey would serve only to make it clear just how important he is to us
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Can anyone much more tactically aware than me, explain what purpose is served using Ironside as a hold up player. Totally baffled. The lad scores goals we know that but, every game he’s back to goal, nowhere near the goal, wrestling, rarely winning a dangerous free kick holding the ball up. Who’s he holding it up for? The defence to get organised?
There’s just no free flowing attack in this method.
Ironside should be playing, he’s good! but not this way. It’s like watching the same game over and over. Please help me out on this.
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It’s the only way we can get up the field as we can’t pass wind and have very few players with pace.
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There’s one midfielder who can put a foot on the ball and pass who hasn’t been tried yet…
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There’s one midfielder who can put a foot on the ball and pass who hasn’t been tried yet…
not good is it. Yet we have to suffer Clifton Sbarra and Broadbent. Unfathomable.
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Can anyone much more tactically aware than me, explain what purpose is served using Ironside as a hold up player. Totally baffled. The lad scores goals we know that but, every game he’s back to goal, nowhere near the goal, wrestling, rarely winning a dangerous free kick holding the ball up. Who’s he holding it up for? The defence to get organised?
There’s just no free flowing attack in this method.
Ironside should be playing, he’s good! but not this way. It’s like watching the same game over and over. Please help me out on this.
Can’t help you on this one, because you are totally correct. Generally when he does win the ball, it’s passed out wide!
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Can anyone much more tactically aware than me, explain what purpose is served using Ironside as a hold up player. Totally baffled. The lad scores goals we know that but, every game he’s back to goal, nowhere near the goal, wrestling, rarely winning a dangerous free kick holding the ball up. Who’s he holding it up for? The defence to get organised?
There’s just no free flowing attack in this method.
Ironside should be playing, he’s good! but not this way. It’s like watching the same game over and over. Please help me out on this.
I'm trying not to be overcritical of Ironside but I'm struggling to see the value he's bringing to the team at the moment.
He played well in the MK Dons game when he managed to find some space, looked more on it, and scored a good goal.
I was really hoping he'd turned the corner but based on Saturday, maybe not. There was an opportunity for him to have a crack a goal during that encouraging first 15 mins, but he chose to move the ball on. This is our striker, who's stats for goal efforts this season must be really poor.
Yes, some of it depends on good service, but so many times, he isn't where we want him to be when crosses come in. When was the last time he looked like being a threat from corners?
He has looked for a while, he's been going through the motions, with half the desire we saw last season.
For example. Our disallowed goal on Saturday.
https://youtu.be/HYWxsWKB-YY?si=EBTUMCKFGdiWLXgX
He layed the ball off and made his way into the area, but then he got marked by their defender and didn't seem to me he was busting a gut to get into a position to attack the cross and get away from his marker.
Whilst I agree we should be getting quicker ball into the box (just as Moly did for Streets goal from the left) we still need Ironside to be more dynamic in his play. More movement, less wrestling please.
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Whoever and however we play we need three points, just find a way.
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Is this available to watch outside uk please - it offers to buy a video pass but nothing happens
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Rob Street up top on his own then - Joe and Billy both benched.
How does Clifton get picked over either Kelly or Crew ??
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These are very poor. Need to be killing them off second half.
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Let them off the hook in the first half. Terrible second half and now down to ten.
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Hard work. Should’ve been out of sight with the chances we had.
How good were our supporters. Well done to those that travelled. They were all you could hear on the tv.
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Wasn’t the best on the terrible pitch but we defended really well even if they were poor
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Wins a win even if it wasn’t pretty. Sunk to their level after the goal. Morecambe would probably struggle against Scawthorpe scorpions u12’s. Hard to remember seeing a side that poor.
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Yep....on a pitch thats probably had 10 times rainfall donny has in last 3 months. Grit, spitting blood, banging heads, freezing nads, thats how you do it. it might not be the glam unbeaten run-in of last season but theres lots of ways of going up.
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Senior got the ball not the man. If that's a red why didn’t the Crystal Palace player get one last week?
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Senior got the ball not the man. If that's a red why didn’t the Crystal Palace player get one last week?
Come on now. It was an aggressive lunge with both feet. He might have got away with it 40 years ago but it’s a red card every day of the week now.
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Senior got the ball not the man. If that's a red why didn’t the Crystal Palace player get one last week?
I agree, never touched the player, won the ball, it was under him, their player got up as soon as he knew Senior had been sent off
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I'll take 3 points for Rovers and a draw for Wimbledon and Notts County any day. I don't care how we got it.
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Senior got the ball not the man. If that's a red why didn’t the Crystal Palace player get one last week?
I agree, never touched the player, won the ball, it was under him, their player got up as soon as he knew Senior had been sent off
One of the other Morecambe players appeared to tell the player who was tackled to stay down when he went past him.
If he had been really hurt I imagine he would have gone to check on how he was.
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I thought the red was harsh!
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When I saw Senior lunging in with legs spread I knew it would be a red card. Not surprised at all.
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I'll give Senior the benefit of the doubt and say he felt like he needed to give the challenge a bit extra given the state of the pitch, and misjudged it. Either way it's a red, he's out of control and it's a dangerous challenge.
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I'll give Senior the benefit of the doubt and say he felt like he needed to give the challenge a bit extra given the state of the pitch, and misjudged it. Either way it's a red, he's out of control and it's a dangerous challenge.
He was having a brilliant game up until then. Not the biggest defender but he’s got the heart of a lion.
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We have a problem at left back now for 3 games with Maxwell being injured
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So, no Senior or Maxwell on Saturday by the look of it.
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Put Nixon in.
And consider an appeal.
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Thought the decision could go either way. Senior had both feet in contact with the pitch when he slid in although it was a full blooded tackle and can understand it being judged dangerous play with only the one look at it.
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From replay it looked no more than a yellow card. Strong tackle but fair imho.
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Is Josh Emmanuel doing anything till the end of the season ?
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Rob Street up top on his own then - Joe and Billy both benched.
How does Clifton get picked over either Kelly or Crew ??
I thought Clifton had a good game and was perfect for the both the type of game and the pitch mud pack it was being played on - he was high energy and did a good job.
Also thought that Anderson had a good game and that he and Olowu were very robust at the back together.
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A Morecambe perception.
https://shrimplythebestfootball.com/2025/02/19/one-nil-again/
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A Morecambe perception.
https://shrimplythebestfootball.com/2025/02/19/one-nil-again/
dear oh dear. Utterly biased, and error-strewn. If the writer of this thinks we are a dirty team, he can't have watched many games this season.
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A Morecambe perception.
https://shrimplythebestfootball.com/2025/02/19/one-nil-again/
Typically partisan. Could have been written by a fan of any team in this division.
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We're not shrinking violets. How many sendings off have we had this season...?
Only Bromley have equalled our total.
Overall, ESPN reckon we're the 8th dirtiest team in League 2
BobG
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We're not shrinking violets. How many sendings off have we had this season...?
BobG
6.
Clifton v MK Dons (2 yellows - fouls)
Molyneux v Chesterfield (2 yellows - dissent and kicking the ball away)
Anderson v Chesterfield (red - headbutt)
McGrath v Carlisle (2 yellows)
Gibson v Colchester (2 yellows - 2nd one for moving the ball a foot before taking a free kick)
Senior v Morecambe (red - awful tackle)
Even though we've got quite a poor disciplinary record, quite a few of these red cards have been very soft/harsh. Especially the Moly and Gibson ones. Senior's last night doesn't fall into that category though IMO. Shocker of a challenge.
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Do other teams not get soft or harsh sendings off?
BobG
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Do other teams not get soft or harsh sendings off?
BobG
I didn't say that other teams did or didn't get soft or harsh red cards. I don't watch enough of other teams to know. I was just answering your question and offering an opinion on the ones we've received.
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Ok. Understand. But we can't claim some of ours are soft and therefore undeserved whilst ignoring the fact that other teams are very likely to believe they've suffered likewise. And that, of course, points to the fact that on red cards we are dirtier than every other team in this division except Bromley.
BobG
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Ok. Understand. But we can't claim some of ours are soft and therefore undeserved whilst ignoring the fact that other teams are very likely to believe they've suffered likewise. And that, of course, points to the fact that on red cards we are dirtier than every other team in this division except Bromley.
BobG
I think we can actually. Anyone who has watched many games of football over the course of the decades has their own knowledge, instincts, opinions - whatever you want to call it - on what a red card offence is. These things are, of course, subjective, hence different referees on different days would call a decision differently to one another. This makes it a shaky theory that you can judge the "dirtiest team in the division" purely on cards received. Not that I ever tried to claim we weren't a "dirty team" - it wouldn't bother me to admit that we are.
I wasn't making the comment relative to decisions/cards other teams have received this season, but rather relative to what I understand to be the laws of the game and the offences that we've been punished for this season. If another team, for example, had a player dismissed for moving the ball a few inches to take a free-kick as Gibson was in December, I don't think that renders it less of a soft decision in this context.
FWIW in that example, I see players doing this week-in, week-out, multiple times a game, and not being punished for it. Maybe they are being yellow carded for it in games up and down the land that I'm unaware of, but I've rarely ever seen it happen otherwise at one of the many games I've been at.
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A lot of Refs in their first EFL season trying to make a name for themselves? We've had stacks of newbies, Just a thought
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Ok. Understand. But we can't claim some of ours are soft and therefore undeserved whilst ignoring the fact that other teams are very likely to believe they've suffered likewise. And that, of course, points to the fact that on red cards we are dirtier than every other team in this division except Bromley.
BobG
You don't have to be dirty to get a red these days, 2 soft yellows for example.
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I think we can actually. Anyone who has watched many games of football over the course of the decades has their own knowledge, instincts, opinions - whatever you want to call it - on what a red card offence is. These things are, of course, subjective, hence different referees on different days would call a decision differently to one another. This makes it a shaky theory that you can judge the "dirtiest team in the division" purely on cards received. Not that I ever tried to claim we weren't a "dirty team" - it wouldn't bother me to admit that we are.
I wasn't making the comment relative to decisions/cards other teams have received this season, but rather relative to what I understand to be the laws of the game and the offences that we've been punished for this season. If another team, for example, had a player dismissed for moving the ball a few inches to take a free-kick as Gibson was in December, I don't think that renders it less of a soft decision in this context.
FWIW in that example, I see players doing this week-in, week-out, multiple times a game, and not being punished for it. Maybe they are being yellow carded for it in games up and down the land that I'm unaware of, but I've rarely ever seen it happen otherwise at one of the many games I've been at.
Not remotely the same. What you see is players trying to pinch ground at free kicks, that isn't what happened with Gibson. The ref placed the ball and set off to take his position, one of the two players moved it so the ref walked back and spoke to them, moved the ball back, marked the spot with his foam and proceeded to return to his position. Gibson scooped up the foam with his hand and placed it a yard closer to the target and then moved the ball to the foam. That is a wilful deception on Gibson's part, the ref saw it and sent him off. Mind blowingly stupid of Gibson and absolutely correct by the ref.
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The Chesterfield centre half went down as if poleaxed when Tom put his head on him. This given by the fourth official 50 yards away and the ref not seeing it. Stupid by Tom but not a red in my opinion..
We have also seen opposition players persistently fouling without getting even one yellow. It is inconsistency by the officials that is the problem.
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We're not shrinking violets. How many sendings off have we had this season...?
BobG
6.
Clifton v MK Dons (2 yellows - fouls)
Molyneux v Chesterfield (2 yellows - dissent and kicking the ball away)
Anderson v Chesterfield (red - headbutt)
McGrath v Carlisle (2 yellows)
Gibson v Colchester (2 yellows - 2nd one for moving the ball a foot before taking a free kick)
Senior v Morecambe (red - awful tackle)
Even though we've got quite a poor disciplinary record, quite a few of these red cards have been very soft/harsh. Especially the Moly and Gibson ones. Senior's last night doesn't fall into that category though IMO. Shocker of a challenge.
Disagree about the Moly second yellow, Pib. That was sheer stupidity; he'd already seen the ref book Madden for doing the exact same thing.
He left the ref no choice.
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We're not shrinking violets. How many sendings off have we had this season...?
BobG
6.
Clifton v MK Dons (2 yellows - fouls)
Molyneux v Chesterfield (2 yellows - dissent and kicking the ball away)
Anderson v Chesterfield (red - headbutt)
McGrath v Carlisle (2 yellows)
Gibson v Colchester (2 yellows - 2nd one for moving the ball a foot before taking a free kick)
Senior v Morecambe (red - awful tackle)
Even though we've got quite a poor disciplinary record, quite a few of these red cards have been very soft/harsh. Especially the Moly and Gibson ones. Senior's last night doesn't fall into that category though IMO. Shocker of a challenge.
Disagree about the Moly second yellow, Pib. That was sheer stupidity; he'd already seen the ref book Madden for doing the exact same thing.
He left the ref no choice.
This is my issue with refereeing. There are a raft of new rules every year to try to stamp out cheating/gamesmanship, which I'm all in favour of, but I don't think it's thought through enough or implemented consistently. It's just a blunt instrument to say "almost everything we want to clamp down on is just going to be a yellow card offence" so you end up with disproportionate punishment.
So you can have a goalkeeper handle the ball outside the area, or someone clatter an opponent, and it's the same punishment as Molyneux apparently kicking the ball away (to time waste obviously, at 0-1 down at home, as you do...), or Gibson moving a bit of foam and re-placing the ball for a free kick. Do we really want to see more cards and more sendings off for stuff so petty? I don't. Or could referees, either through common sense or directives from the authorities, be encouraged to clamp down on this stuff without resorting to cards so quickly? I've heard Keith Hackett on the radio advocating this exact point as well, so it aint just me.
Additionally to that, you have some rules come in for 3 weeks and get forgotten about, like substituted players taking the shortest route off the pitch, and the madness of added time we had at the start of last season (or maybe the one before, I can't remember).
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pib, I think in Gibson's case the issue was his refusal, despite a verbal warning, to accept the referee's ruling. That in any code of sport is unacceptable and must be stamped out.