Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Branton Rover on April 28, 2025, 07:25:29 pm
-
I want Billy to sign again and he wants to extend his stay too as I guess most fans do. But the counter argument also needs airing which is, can it be right to put a League One contract offer out to a player who because of old father tune is only likely to be utilised as an impact player/bench option? Then again and I’m contradicting myself again here Billy’s a proven goal getter and their signatures tend to cost more in salary. The other logical question is would Billy accept a lesser contract to reflect his potential game time as he’s a senior pro now. I’m quite sure at this stage of his career he’s well set financially and may well sign a lesser monetary contract to play on as he’s has stated wants to continue into his 40’s.
-
I want Billy to sign again and he wants to extend his stay too as I guess most fans do. But the counter argument also needs airing which is, can it be right to put a League One contract offer out to a player who because of old father tune is only likely to be utilised as an impact player/bench option? Then again and I’m contradicting myself again here Billy’s a proven goal getter and their signatures tend to cost more in salary. The other logical question is would Billy accept a lesser contract to reflect his potential game time as he’s a senior pro now. I’m quite sure at this stage of his career he’s well set financially and may well sign a lesser monetary contract to play on as he’s has stated wants to continue into his 40’s.
Showed his class with the finish on Saturday just depends if he's happy to play a bit part. Streets showed what we need from a center forward, he has the strength and hold up play of Ironside but has the pace and guile to get in behind also. Be interesting to see what Grant does pre season as without naming names there's a few that aren't good enough for the step up.
-
I think Billy is also one who leads by example and is good for the team/dressing room. He will have improved the team way more than during the game. Also imagine being a young kid, or even a loanee and learning from the very best, I can imagine that would sway loans from clubs.
However, I can also imagine that it would only work if he was a bit more than a bit part player, like this year.
-
I wondered if he might call it a day after finishing this season on a high. Looks like he's going down the Richard Wood route, wanting to play as long as he can. Always going to be difficult knowing when to call it a day.
Obviously, we can't carry players on sentiment. They must contribute and I'm sure GM will assess that and whether he can still add value to the squad, even if game time might be limited once again.
Question is for all of us. Has he fulfilled our expectations this season?
For me, I said I'd be happy if he played half the games and scored around 10 goals. Probably not far off that in the end but I didn't expect GM being so single minded playing one up front for the most part.
Providing it's not at the expense of recruiting other key players, then sign him up. Wood on the other hand.....
-
I remember a comment by the Accrington manager back in August in a post match interview talking about his team trying to get back into the game in the second half and he said “…..and then they bring on Billy Sharp”.
Billy coming off the bench for us must be horrible for opposition teams.
-
I think the real elephant in the room is will we have the budget to compete the way Grant has already said (in public) we will.
He’s already said we don’t have one of the top budgets this season in the league below.
And gut feeling is L1 is probably a lot stronger than when we were last there.
I really hope we can match his ambitions. I believe he took a step back into L2 as a short term risk, he will want to kick on now and has said so.
Probably discussion for another day, we’ve a league title to win.
-
I remember a comment by the Accrington manager back in August in a post match interview talking about his team trying to get back into the game in the second half and he said “…..and then they bring on Billy Sharp”.
Billy coming off the bench for us must be horrible for opposition teams.
We’ll be playing better teams than Accrington and 10 man Bradford.
Ironside is under contract.
If Sharp signs then that’s only space for one other main striker.
If that new main striker gets injured we’re potentially (depending on other business) having the same attacking problems we’ve had this year but in a harder league.
Need 2 new strikers.
-
McCann has only really played with one through the centre for us. Marquis, then Ironside and then Street. That is a certain type of player who is central to that set up. You need basically two of those, and another who can offer something a bit different.
-
I think the real elephant in the room is will we have the budget to compete the way Grant has already said (in public) we will.
He’s already said we don’t have one of the top budgets this season in the league below.
And gut feeling is L1 is probably a lot stronger than when we were last there.
I really hope we can match his ambitions. I believe he took a step back into L2 as a short term risk, he will want to kick on now and has said so.
Probably discussion for another day, we’ve a league title to win.
Fair point Mush, but i remember Gavin at one of the recent MTO saying how we would be much better off financially if we were in League 1. Im sure we will have a decent budget to compete with.
-
It’s not just a lot stronger I bet the budgets are way bigger than when we were last there. Teams like Wrexham, Stockport, Birmingham have had such big budgets I imagine this has forced the hand of others to compete.
-
I remember a comment by the Accrington manager back in August in a post match interview talking about his team trying to get back into the game in the second half and he said “…..and then they bring on Billy Sharp”.
Billy coming off the bench for us must be horrible for opposition teams.
We’ll be playing better teams than Accrington and 10 man Bradford.
Ironside is under contract.
If Sharp signs then that’s only space for one other main striker.
If that new main striker gets injured we’re potentially (depending on other business) having the same attacking problems we’ve had this year but in a harder league.
Need 2 new strikers.
We'll be playing better teams than Accrington and 10-man Bradford BECAUSE of Billy Sharp.
-
I think the real elephant in the room is will we have the budget to compete the way Grant has already said (in public) we will.
He’s already said we don’t have one of the top budgets this season in the league below.
And gut feeling is L1 is probably a lot stronger than when we were last there.
I really hope we can match his ambitions. I believe he took a step back into L2 as a short term risk, he will want to kick on now and has said so.
Probably discussion for another day, we’ve a league title to win.
Fair point Mush, but i remember Gavin at one of the recent MTO saying how we would be much better off financially if we were in League 1. Im sure we will have a decent budget to compete with.
Two things have registered with me...suggesting GM & TB already know the direction of travel.
1. The investment in the building of a new training facility. McCann said it will help attract better quality players.
2. McCann said we're not going into L1 just to make up the numbers.
Add the additional revenue from EFL, better attendances etc and we're already adding significant funds.
Sorry to continue off topic.
-
Again, we will be better off in cash terms, but relatively we will have a mid to lower budget in League One. We will get lots of additional revenue from various streams but this won't materially change our relative position with respect to budgets in League One. We will be competing with clubs the majority of which have larger budgets than we do.
-
Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd be letting Ironside go.
-
I don’t for one minute think that money is Billy’s motivation, I can only think of one player in League Two who will have earned as much as him and that’s McGoldrick at Notts County. The pair of them are playing because they enjoy it and they feel they can contribute to their respective teams
-
I remember a comment by the Accrington manager back in August in a post match interview talking about his team trying to get back into the game in the second half and he said “…..and then they bring on Billy Sharp”.
Billy coming off the bench for us must be horrible for opposition teams.
We’ll be playing better teams than Accrington and 10 man Bradford.
Ironside is under contract.
If Sharp signs then that’s only space for one other main striker.
If that new main striker gets injured we’re potentially (depending on other business) having the same attacking problems we’ve had this year but in a harder league.
Need 2 new strikers.
We'll be playing better teams than Accrington and 10-man Bradford BECAUSE of Billy Sharp.
He struggled for large parts and the attack didn’t function properly when he started games.
Even if what you say is true, that isn’t reason enough to keep him either.
-
Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd be letting Ironside go.
Absolutely not, play him regularly and he will provide the goods.
Don’t forget he has proved he can score goals in L1, playing in a relatively poor side.
-
Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd be letting Ironside go.
So would I.
-
Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd be letting Ironside go.
Absolutely not, play him regularly and he will provide the goods.
Don’t forget he has proved he can score goals in L1, playing in a relatively poor side.
I don't think his lg1 goal return for us would be enough.
This season has proven that he doesn't fit the current playing style.
He plays with his back to goal looking for cheap free kicks.
Rob Street is looking to run behind defences when we're on the counter, hence his goal return.
I'm not a joe Ironside hater BTW, I like him, I just don't think he fits what Rovers have now become under GM.
-
We need more mobility than Ironside and Sharp. I wouldn’t be falling into the trap of re-signing Sharp on the wave of emotion and if we can find a home for Ironside that would be great also. We will be playing plenty of games on the counter attacking L1. We need pace and mobility. Managers are emotional beasts by nature so I can imagine him being loyal to his troops.
-
Copps played on in L1. Billy’s lean and fit. Trust Grant on this.
-
His goals return has been good. 0.45 goals /90mins. Can’t argue with that at all. Nobody can question his finishing. It’s what style of striker best suits McCanns style and the style we will be forced into playing next season. Is it a pretty slow “fox in the box” or a profile based on the Rob Street style of being quick, strong and a willing work horse? I think it’s the latter but each to their own.
-
No brainer for me. Sign Billy and let Joe go. Billy will probably be even better in league one than in league two.
-
Maybe it’s the sentiment talking but he’s shown he’s still capable of delivering from the bench (although I doubt he’d thank anyone for pigeon holing him as a sub). If a chance falls in the box you want him on the end of it. That’s got to be worth something.
Ironside still has another year so if he were to move on we’d need to find a taker.
I always like watching players like Street who have that pace and mobility about them. Like when we had Wilks and at times were electric on the counter. Wouldnt mind a couple of quick players in that mould for next season. In fact, it’ll be needed I think.
-
Joe Ironside doesn’t have Rob Street’s pace & mobility however, he does hold the ball up better (he’s strong & ‘clever’ with the ball at his feet & back to goal) & with ‘a runner’ close by he would be a very effective No.9 still in Lg1 in my opinion.
Let’s remember Rob Street, as much as we might love him to be, is not our player and given the successful period he’s had with us this season I fully expect him to be turning out against us next season in Lincoln colours.
So that leaves us with Joe & possibly Billy as one pairing up front (should we ever play two up under GM) & on that note I would look to offer Sharp a deal AND keep Joe. Surely ‘we can afford’ that while still looking for other options up front in the ‘Rob Street vain’?
Anything is possible between now & next August. I’m only looking at the ‘here & now’.
-
Regardless, we will need to make some shrewd moves to not only stay up next season(Which really though I think we will) but push on and really have a solid season in general. I think we have just as good of a setup as Stockport does and they are in the playoffs already for instance.
-
Joe Ironside doesn’t have Rob Street’s pace & mobility however, he does hold the ball up better (he’s strong & ‘clever’ with the ball at his feet & back to goal) & with ‘a runner’ close by he would be a very effective No.9 still in Lg1 in my opinion.
Let’s remember Rob Street, as much as we might love him to be, is not our player and given the successful period he’s had with us this season I fully expect him to be turning out against us next season in Lincoln colours.
So that leaves us with Joe & possibly Billy as one pairing up front (should we ever play two up under GM) & on that note I would look to offer Sharp a deal AND keep Joe. Surely ‘we can afford’ that while still looking for other options up front in the ‘Rob Street vain’?
Anything is possible between now & next August. I’m only looking at the ‘here & now’.
Like you say Joe still has plenty to offer, the 10 roles been our biggest disappointment this year as he's had nobody in and around him. If this is still our favoured formation next year it's a position that needs drastic improvement.
-
I’m sure that Grant will know exactly what to do and sentiment won’t come into it.
Billy has already been released by Sheffield United and Hull City when they were going to be playing in leagues above where they felt Billy could not contribute more than just a squad member or impact substitute, which he was with us for most of the season.
He’s now coming up for 40 years old and with the step up to League One ahead of us, Grant has a difficult decision to make, but he knows what he has to do.
-
Billy still has something to offer to us in league 1, yes he has his limitations, but he knows where the net is, he should have scored an extra 5/6 goals this season. Yes he will be a bit part player, but he will have his part to play
But for me grant needs a pacey powerful striker to stretch defences from the off. I hope he looks for this in the summer and not in January as he did with street and Haks the season before
-
Perhaps he did look in summer but for whatever reason didn’t get his man.?
-
I'd 100% offer Sharp another year, massive influence in the dressing room and talisman for the fans. Experience will be invaluable and he can still do it even if off the bench for 30mins. Saturday shows we need him
-
Definitely get rid of Ironside. Nowhere near good enough for L1 I'm afraid.
Love Sharp, but I'd potentially lean more to letting him go. Then again he has popped up with big moments and if he's happy being an impact player it might not be the worst idea for one more year.
-
Sharp is well worth having around for the fear factor he brings. The opposition know that if he gets a chance it’s in. He is still good enough to get goals at league one level. Yes don’t rely on him for our goals but if he plays enough he could chip in with fifteen or so. He hasn’t played enough this season, been wasted a little bit. His age doesn’t put me off at all, he can still do it, fit as a fiddle.
-
I hope Ironside is remembered for having one of the best seasons from a Rovers striker in modern times when we’re using language like “get rid”.
-
Sharp is fitter now than in any of his previous spells. My eyes may be playing tricks but he looks quicker too. Definitely worth another year for me.
-
I was in the let him go camp but he keeps popping up with these special moments doesn't he?
-
Taking all sentiment out of the equation, my view would be that we should keep him. What he can offer late in a game when we’re chasing a goal is almost unique. And he’ll get goals whatever level he plays at until the day he retires. So I’d keep him. But we certainly need a new striker in the mould of Street to be our regular starter. Undoubtedly that suits the way we play.
-
I'd agree with that Jonathan.
I've been a little bit in two minds on this one but having reflected on it I'd be for keeping him.
Opposition fans dread him playing against them and that says a lot to me.
Yes, Billy has missed a few 'sitters' this season but the sign of a good striker is to have been in those positions in the first place.
I can't think of many other players I would have preferred to be on the end of that flick-on from Ennis on Saturday.
He's weighed in with a very respectable 9 league goals as well as a couple of important goals in the FA Cup.
Give Billy another year, but we need a Street replacement as you say.
(What a signing he was by the way).
-
Does Sharp want to keep on playing is a good question too I think? Have seen no indication he wants to hang his boots up mind haha, just saying.
-
I'd 100% offer Sharp another year, massive influence in the dressing room and talisman for the fans. Experience will be invaluable and he can still do it even if off the bench for 30mins. Saturday shows we need him
Hope he’s not that much of an influence when they saw him head butt the lad and miss 3 important games!
-
I'd 100% offer Sharp another year, massive influence in the dressing room and talisman for the fans. Experience will be invaluable and he can still do it even if off the bench for 30mins. Saturday shows we need him
Hope he’s not that much of an influence when they saw him head butt the lad and miss 3 important games!
Agree, it was a poor effort.
He should have nutted the cheating bas**rd properly!
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
Because youngsters are always a gamble, and totally unproven, as we've found out many times over the last few years.
Billy is a proven goalscorer. Simple as.
-
He’s a certain kind of striker that doesn’t quite fit Grant’s style, however, I still believe there’s more positives than negatives to keep him in the squad. No.1 being he’s a winner, loves scoring goals and is a talisman.
We do need Streete back, if possible, or someone like him.
-
Lose Ironside, he is just not good enough for Lg.2 never mind Lg 1. Keep Billy, he is effective as a supersub, but we do need at least another striker if not 2. We also need a box to box midfielder like Paul Green, Crew could do it but there is no way Leeds would let him return. The other one is a replacement for TSL, no way can we use Lawlor as our main keeper, unless relegation is the aim. In Copps/McCann/Byrne we trust!
-
It is all relative with Billy. If he is going to be on decent money and at a higher level and a year older, not going to be a starter, then we've taken up a budget spot for someone who would play more, potentially score more and certainly have a higher potential resale value. If it is a workable amount, you could swallow that. As our relative budget position will dramatically deteriorate with the promotion, we will have to take a series of very tough choices.
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
Because youngsters are always a gamble, and totally unproven, as we've found out many times over the last few years.
Billy is a proven goalscorer. Simple as.
Yes Billy is a proven goalscorer and has had a legendary career.
Yet Rob Street, a completely unproven goalscorer who we took a gamble on, has scored at a higher rate than him this season.
Only it wasn’t a gamble, because it was an excellent piece of player profiling identifying what the team sorely needed. His presence made everyone else in the team score more too.
It’s possible to score a few goals here and there and still be a net negative to the team. Which is the gamble you’d be taking on a 40 year old Sharp playing in League One while other clubs hoover up the younger talent.
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
Because youngsters are always a gamble, and totally unproven, as we've found out many times over the last few years.
Billy is a proven goalscorer. Simple as.
Yes Billy is a proven goalscorer and has had a legendary career.
Yet Rob Street, a completely unproven goalscorer who we took a gamble on, has scored at a higher rate than him this season.
Only it wasn’t a gamble, because it was an excellent piece of player profiling identifying what the team sorely needed. His presence made everyone else in the team score more too.
It’s possible to score a few goals here and there and still be a net negative to the team. Which is the gamble you’d be taking on a 40 year old Sharp playing in League One while other clubs hoover up the younger talent.
Street wasn’t a young kid on his first loan though.
-
He’s a certain kind of striker that doesn’t quite fit Grant’s style, however, I still believe there’s more positives than negatives to keep him in the squad. No.1 being he’s a winner, loves scoring goals and is a talisman.
We do need Streete back, if possible, or someone like him.
I know he scored the last goal at Belle Vue but I'm not sure Streete is the answer to our striker situation... :whistle:
-
As I posted earlier in this thread I very much doubt that Billy is motivated by money, how long has he been a professional ? Let’s say 20 years for easy sums, he’s had a few promotions, played in 4 different leagues, 5 if you count America, scored a few goals. I won’t start to break it down on what would be my opinion on how much he’s earned,but money won’t be his motivation
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
Because youngsters are always a gamble, and totally unproven, as we've found out many times over the last few years.
Billy is a proven goalscorer. Simple as.
Yes Billy is a proven goalscorer and has had a legendary career.
Yet Rob Street, a completely unproven goalscorer who we took a gamble on, has scored at a higher rate than him this season.
Only it wasn’t a gamble, because it was an excellent piece of player profiling identifying what the team sorely needed. His presence made everyone else in the team score more too.
It’s possible to score a few goals here and there and still be a net negative to the team. Which is the gamble you’d be taking on a 40 year old Sharp playing in League One while other clubs hoover up the younger talent.
Street wasn’t a young kid on his first loan though.
This feels like an important point to me. It would make some sense to look at players that have already had decent / promising stints on loan but perhaps aren’t deemed good enough for their parent clubs. We should be able to attract a better calibre in league 2, so they must be out there.
-
Why not offer Billy a player/coach role at the club (assuming he has his badges). This is a win win for club and player. Billy still plays for Rovers and shares his knowledge and experience with young players who are still learning the ropes of professional football.
-
I suppose that in considering Ironside we might reflect on how we viewed Anderson a month or two ago when he came back after a long injury. As you get older it takes more time to recover your old form. Ironside has had a similar experience.
-
If we loaned Street again next season and he score 10 by Christmas, he would be back to Lincoln in the transfer window.
-
Wouldn’t that depend on the loan terms.?
-
Wouldn’t that depend on the loan terms.?
Even on season long loans, there's always a break clause in January to make sure all parties are still happy to continue.
Talking of Street. Here's his answer to the possibility of a return.
https://youtu.be/3w0G6SaWJt4?si=cGMgZWlYVTtqNTRE
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
Because youngsters are always a gamble, and totally unproven, as we've found out many times over the last few years.
Billy is a proven goalscorer. Simple as.
Yes Billy is a proven goalscorer and has had a legendary career.
Yet Rob Street, a completely unproven goalscorer who we took a gamble on, has scored at a higher rate than him this season.
Only it wasn’t a gamble, because it was an excellent piece of player profiling identifying what the team sorely needed. His presence made everyone else in the team score more too.
It’s possible to score a few goals here and there and still be a net negative to the team. Which is the gamble you’d be taking on a 40 year old Sharp playing in League One while other clubs hoover up the younger talent.
Street wasn’t a young kid on his first loan though.
He was still young and with no record of being a proven goalscorer.
You can’t just sign strikers on their previous goal returns. Street has proven that with being twice the player of Sharp this season.
-
If Billy had no connection to this club would anyone be all for signing a 39 year old striker who’d been a bit part player in League 2 (who doesn’t suit our style of play) to play in League 1?
Would any League 1 clubs look to pick him up if we didn’t?
If he’s going to be a bit part player why not sign a youngster we can develop who would also be happy with that? If we have too many transfer windows with short term thinking we’re going to get found out one day.
Because youngsters are always a gamble, and totally unproven, as we've found out many times over the last few years.
Billy is a proven goalscorer. Simple as.
Yes Billy is a proven goalscorer and has had a legendary career.
Yet Rob Street, a completely unproven goalscorer who we took a gamble on, has scored at a higher rate than him this season.
Only it wasn’t a gamble, because it was an excellent piece of player profiling identifying what the team sorely needed. His presence made everyone else in the team score more too.
It’s possible to score a few goals here and there and still be a net negative to the team. Which is the gamble you’d be taking on a 40 year old Sharp playing in League One while other clubs hoover up the younger talent.
Street wasn’t a young kid on his first loan though.
He was still young and with no record of being a proven goalscorer.
You can’t just sign strikers on their previous goal returns. Street has proven that with being twice the player of Sharp this season.
Yes, I understand all that.
I was just saying that he wasn’t here on his first loan.
We have all seen how long it sometimes takes the young pros to adjust to the mens game and get used to the physicality of it.
The experiences he had before have probably helped him in his time with us.
-
I am guessing that we won't be going in to next season with both Ironside and Sharp on the books.
-
I am guessing that we won't be going in to next season with both Ironside and Sharp on the books.
Agree with this, gut feeling says Sharp + 2 x new strikers.
-
I am guessing that we won't be going in to next season with both Ironside and Sharp on the books.
Agree with this, gut feeling says Sharp + 2 x new strikers.
Letting Sharp’s contract expire and aiming for Ironside and 2 new strikers would be more sensible, as the club would know where it stood and could do business early.
Waiting for someone to come in for Ironside could scupper other business and make us miss out on targets.
A player sale could end up being 3 games in to the season or even not at all. He wanted to move back to Yorkshire.
As a fit-again third choice in games where we’ll be battling in a tougher league he can still offer something IMO.
There’s not really much centre forward talent about we need to be quick.
-
Billy scored a stunning overhead kick in a charity match yesterday. (Sorry don't have the link)
The more I think about it, Billy likely to get another season. Two other strikers/goalscorers required with Ironside finding pastures new.
If McCanns previous transfer windows are anything to go by, he'll want to do our business early and won't be kept waiting, ready for the start of pre season training.